I think the United States was indiscrimnate in the use of its bombs against civilians long before there was an Israel.

See Tokyo, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

Just as the Israelis bombed Lebanon in 2006 and killed about 1000 civilians, so now has the US military come to the use of indiscriminate use of air power. If you have watched the Israeli military for the past 40 years, you know that the value of civilian Palestinian lives mean nothing to the Israelis. And now, with the US govt totally under Zionist control, it is only natural that the killing of innocent civilians be acceptable.

With all the media hysteria and calls for more sanctions against harmless Zimbabwe, we have yet to see one word about sanctions against USA. The media is quiet on the ongoing war crimes by this most overlooked of war criminals.
Imagine how the media would howl if president Mugabe had bombed wedding parties in other countries.
SHAME ON THE MEDIA. SHAME ON THE 'INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY'.

If they run, they are Al Qaeda, so shoot them
If the dont run, they are well disciplined Al Qaeda, so shoot them too

And whose form of socialism or communism shall you put up as an example to follow? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely proven again and again. Where has the blending of systems been tried? What would happen if Insurance was not for profit, socialised with no need of profit as well as Medicine/Health care wow lot of extra money. And what if energy was nationalized.........and Corporations were held more accountable for there actions and were kept out of politics? Our these some of what you speak? Pissant c/8on and USAn

Notice the ease with which civilians are killed by the
NeoCons who still control the US govt.......reminds me of the actions of the IDF. Do YOU know the truth of Sabra and Shatilla??

Pissant,

Thanks! It is nice to hear someone else on CD besides me who has read up on how things work, including those of that great 19th century philosopher, M___, who's name one cannot mention in polite company of the bougie-liberals here.

Thank you, PissantNobody.

I believe it is the truth that capitalism must kill life for profit, the living air, living water, fish, trees, species of all sort, the earth itself. We define our symbiosis with nature by how we use our tools to carve our existence. Capitalism gave us powerful tools, but left in the hands of profit mongers life is at risk. The earth is finite, but capital must forever expand, anything less is stagnation and collapse. We must end the reign of capitalism and use our considerable skills to promote Life. It is our historial duty to do this. It is why we are on earth. Not profit, we must have Life be the goal.

What is happening in Afghanistan is nothing less than one more disgraceful stain on American morality - as if we do not have enough stains already.

We are buying off Afghan warlords to "finger" their enemies (using their own cruel judgment of veracity and morality) so that (cowardly) American planes can bomb them (from a sky free from all opposition), and allow us then to claim that we have killed Taliban - and if a "mistake" is made, it is not our fault.

And BTW, why are we over their killing Taliban anyway? They no longer have any control over OBL (or any other al Qaeda leaders) - and they never did have any "control" over al Qaeda. Their only "crime" was their "refusal" to turn OBL over - and that was never (with any certainty) within their power to do. But that is what provided Bush with "justification" for invading Afghanistan.

And if it is Caspian Oil that we are interested in, we need to remember that when the Taliban was in control of Afghanistan, they were wheeling and dealing with UNOCAL and the U.S. government for a huge pipeline project that would bring Caspian oil to a sea terminal in Pakistan. In fact, UNOCAL even made Hamid Karzai (then a Taliban - now president of Afghanistan) a UNOCAL consultant.

How do we manage to invent such a screwed up foreign policy?

Once again, our grand miltary campaign has proven incapable of doing the job. Wasteful and useless. How many innocent lives will be lost due to US policy and failed strategy? It's disheartening and embarrassing that our country is committed to a protracted war with no end in sight. Selling weapons and contracting for war is big business. Clearly we're more about the $$ than helping other nations. The US efforts are nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing? And it all comes at the expense of the American taxpayer. Pretending to seek out terrorists in foreign lands while demolishing innocent lives means more anger directed at you and I, both here and abroad.
We can thank Bush and his war profiteering friends.

I think our fearless leader Stephen Harper should stop and count the cost as a big promotor and advocate US military leadership in Afghanistan. Is there any discussion in Canada regarding how the USA selects targets and then proceeds to fire away ?? Smart bombs in the hands of stupid people have taken their toll before and Harper knows this all too well when Canadian soldiers were hit by an an errant US missile. Is there anything wrong? I wouldn't think so. If there were anyhting wrong wouldn't we have heard ?

So, they couldn't tell the difference between a wedding party and the Taliban? Anybody actually believe this bullshit? The military can't seem to locate the enemy: but they sure do seem to locate countless numbers of the innocent!

I would like to see WHO gave the intelligence that the Taliban were there. Afghan tribes are constantly fighting one another and trying to even old scores many that go back decades. It didn't take the Afghan tribes long to learn the US military was their most effective weapon to even these old scores. This has happened enough times for the military to double and triple check any Afghan fed intelligence, apparently something the military did not do.

It is not our policy to bomb civilians. We just bomb all suspected sites on any shred of evidence regardless of whether we know whether civilians are there or not.

Richard Paine asks in response to my call for proletarian socialist revolution: ...how is it we can't find the golden mean?

There is undoubtedly a golden mean, but not this side of the international dictatorship of the proletariat! From where we stand today, in a world violently dominated by the dictatorship of the bourgoisie, their allowance of a golden mean is always a ruse to prolong their illegitimate rule. That is why humanitarian reform within capitalism is always partial, and is always under threat of reversal.

Quite simply, it is contrary to the interest of the owners to be fair and rational about power. Do you really expect the house of Saud or Gates will just hand over their ill-gotten zillions? As a class, they will make minimal concessions, only if absolutely forced to, and only with the idea of getting it back later. It is not that these people are inherently more evil or greedy than the rest of us. Some are probably nice people on a personal level, but it is a matter of class interest. Their numbers are small, but they are comparitively organized and control the armies. It will take the well-led power of organized labor to break their starnglehold on us.

@claudius July 11th, 2008 5:56 pm
"Air Farce paid the families $2,000. for each that was injured, the families received $1,000."

So how much is a life worth?

Fortunately that question has been answered by US District Judge Royce C Lamberth.
The answer is approximately U.S. $11 million each.

"A US federal judge has ordered Iran to pay $2.65bn (£1.3bn) to the families of 241 marines killed in a 1983 bombing of their Beirut barracks." 241 * 11 million = 2.65bn.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6984365.stm

Now, the circumstances that this bombing happened under is one where the USA and Israel were having an illegal military occupation of Lebanon. Hizbollah was born under this occupation, and actually succeeded in repelling the invaders. I guess the figure should normally be around ten times that, but no doubt the judge took into consideration that the US servicemen were illegal military occupiers. After all, I never heard of bank robbers being compensated for injuries.

Hizbollah has successfully repelled 4 Israeli invasions since then.

Pissant
while all are welcome to their views and choses I find the extreme to any one, or the far side of any one political system and philosophy Just that, extreme........how is it we can't find the golden mean? when I read about it, blending ideas to end with the best of every thought system, for the individual situation being handled on a one by one, no cookie cutter diplomacy but life case situational

But I dream........and look to experience that day
sooner so much sooner than later.......what do you see......you look at and see what.......how do you explain such realities as what goes on in the name of "America USA"

How many of you like I feel ashamed ......my country is shaming me for being a part of this
out of control nonsense?

But on the other hand the senate did pass the extend GI bill that will provide quality education at a four year public college. There is always some good with the bad.

Little Brother, I don't know why the military would be ticked off at having to pay $1,000 or $2,000 to the families for killing their loved ones.

With the weapons used to kill and cripple them, the profits that the weapons industry makes more than covers the payments.

I know some people who pay more than that to the veterinarian to keep their beloved dogs alive and in good health. The way the world's superpower treats our fellow human beings is criminal.

Civilian - or any other - war deaths are not a concern to imperialism, except insofar as they might impede the ability to dominate and profit. That is because capitalism is only concerned with profit, and for that reason, it can NEVER be reliably reformed into a humanitarian system. For society to move beyond war and poverty, international socialism is a must. To achieve this, a Leninist party must be built and integrated into key sectors of the industrial working class. This is not a new formula, but it remains the only one that offers hope, and has been proven by the Russian Revolution of 1917.

Few Americans accept this strategy, but there simply is no other that holds water. Is this just my 'opinion'? No! It reflects the pinnacle of social science. How am I so pompous as to make such a claim? Many reasons, but one that stands out on these pages is the total void of defensible alternatives, despite my call for them dozens of times on CD.

Friends, it is past time to abandon your faith in capitalist reform! It is an illusion that keeps most of humanity in misery, and threatens to fry the entire Earth. Those who promote reform, except as a clearly stated link to a communist future, are the enemy of humanity. Journalists who give us wrenching reports (like this one) of the worst excesses of Imperialism, but do nothing to point us toward a just and peaceful future - toward global communism - are cowardly at best. CD is filled to the brim with denunciations and sterile lists of horrific facts, but without a comprehensive and sustainable way forward. The reason is because most sophisticates know full well the bancruptcy of capitalism, but are (rightly!) afraid of being immediately 'black listed' if they utter the 'C' word.

Again, I make the plea: If you have a better plan, let's hear it. If not, join the party of proletarian revolution!

wow. And we have the audacity to accuse countries of terrorism.

Not so long ago the Bush Family celebrated the wedding of one of their daughters....if something this horrendous had happened to that party (God Forbid)what would the Headlines have been and How would we as a Nation have reacted?
Now, how is it we expect the people in Afganistan and the rest of the world to react to us?
Ooops and Collateral Damage just doesn't seem to cut it.
We as a people, as a country will never agree on everything, nor should we but, I think we can agree that our government is not, nor has it been doing its Constitutional duty for quite some time.

Polls show the Executive Branch and Congress don't rate highly to say the least. The last election the Democrats were put in to 'change' things .... they haven't. Obama is running on a platform of change, yet he goes along with the illegal fisa retro active immunity bill....some change. And McCain wants more of the same...everything is fine people, it is only your perceptions which are askew.
Our government isn't doing their,jobs they no longer follow the US Constitution. So what if instead of trying to elect some one to fix things
which we will never agree upon instead we just decide upon one day and stay home in a statement against whatever it is you perceive as wrong.
They are not doing their jobs so we don't do ours.
Which in reality will have us doing their job and ours of standing up for the US Constitution. This is not only our right but our duty as Americans. "We the People" let the powers that be know that we have powers and rights given to each and every sovereign individual and today we choose to excert them in mass. For there is power in numbers and mass and with inertia we might bring this do nothing mess under control.

Now that would be an accomplished mission.

At the same time, my failed attempt at sarcasm turned out to be a hanging curveball over the plate. Nice homerun.

Little Brother,

Well said. The sad truth is one can actually visualize that happening.

This has been going on since 2001. then the news reports explained our poor morons must be excused because they never knew Afghans had a tradition of shooting guns in the air at wedding parties.O.K. fine so now they know. and they keep right on doing it anyway. Of course "only militants" were killed! That's the only kind of people there are in Afghanistan!
especially after our troops have killed them.

What has happened to Bugliosi's book, "The Prosecution of George W. Bush For Murder"? Has there been any follow up? Or is buried or shelved like all the other books on Bush's criminality?

The caption on the picture reads, "An Afghan child who was allegedly injured in US-led air strikes ..."

I think it was Tricky Dicky who got into trouble for his lack of 'alleged' when talking about Charles Manson as a murderer (when Manson was on trial and it was only alleged at that stage) but that was the President of the USA speaking about a trial in progress and Manson's lawyers were looking for any way out, and be that as it may...

I would argue that in this instance there is no need for 'alleged' at all, since the US claimed they did it, but if it is going to be there at least put the word in the right place. Allegedy injured? I don't think there is any question of that -- that guy is injured. He is bandaged and they are carrying him from an ambulance into the hospital. So not that.

So what else is questionable? Maybe he wasn't really injured by the air-strike, but threw himself off a building or something?

Enough: Impeach - Change the Mission: Now!

John Warner for Interim President.

Chuck Hegal for Interim Vice President.

I guess the military does put a price (incredibly cheap one) on life.
_________________________________________________

I understand the brass was pretty pissed off that they had to dip into the petty cash after the hostiles refused to accept a settlement of two glass buckets of beads and a smallpox-infested blanket per victim. (One bucket for victims under 10).

Why did this article leave out an important piece of information? For each civilian who died in this debacle, the Air Farce paid the families $2,000. for each that was injured, the families received $1,000. I guess the military does put a price (incredibly cheap one) on life.

ddell413,

I think that the Rules of Engagement (ROE) for Afganistan defines gatherings of more than a few people as valid targets. Just like any (brown)male who looks over 14 and is outside in the daytime in Iraq with a bag can be shot on sight.

Therefore the pilots are hitting targets as ordered. there is no "oops". They know full well that there are only kids and women there, but they "light 'em up" anyway.

This is just outrageous, 47 civilians killed, so where is the apology, Air Force ?

Are these flyboys blind? Can't they tell the enemy from the civilians, especially women and children? How did they get their assignments? At least when you take a driver's test, you need to take an eye test first.

What is the point of all their fancy technological equipment if they can't aim at the proper target? What do they do, shoot first and say, "oops" later? They should be made to get out of their planes, go to the devastation and see what they did. They might have to look at some bloody women and children for a change instead of their rarified vantage point.

Ah, the good war. The feel-good war. The one Obama wants to expand. At least until that pipeline gets built.

Disgusting. Did the big heroes, the so-called good guys who are safe thousands of feet up in the air, write the usual smart-alecky insults on the bombs before they dropped them on the helpless civilians? It's such fun for the "heroes."

By the way, who are the so-called "bad guys?" The way they call people "bad guys" sounds so immature.

Didn't you know? Guided missiles seek non-civilian persons to MURDER, they never kill INNOCENT women and children. Always with the Wedding Party's too.
Off topic, but if anyone uses icasualties.org, take a gander sometime on Troop deaths, where they are the individual by individual page. DoD cause of death, an awfully suspicious amount recently of "non-hostile" deaths. I knew they were starting to frag dissenters, I knew it.
In old Afghanistan, where evrything old is new again....here we go again, I refuse to live the rest of my life out in this country.
For Sale: 5 bedroom, blah.....CHEAP!~

This world is beyond saving. Blind anger and hate has triumphed over love, acceptance, and
empathy.

The things we do for oil.

To GwNorth's comment I would add that this policy appears to be more deliberate than accidental. It tells the Afghan civilians "See what happens when you let the Taliban operate in your community." It's a brutal hallmark of counter-insurgencies since recorded time.

Air strikes on civilians=our brave young men and women who put themselves in harm's way. How about that intrepid band of brothers who direct the predator drones from a keyboard? Going after the bad guys.

This is called "collateral damage" by the Americans when they commit this terrible crime. Of course when 9/11 occured, it was an outrage, but the USA had already exceeded that number of innocent lives long before 9/11. US History is built upon an ocean of innocent blood.
The Americans are in FACT-- EXPERTS AT IT. They got a lot of practice in it with the Native Peoples, then "graduated" outward so to speak after refining it on their own----Sherman's March to the Sea, was war upon the innocent, and hailed as a brave and noble endeavor.
The High Command, in all of their wars, the Field Grade Officers and NCOs, and even the troops think little of it, since they are not held responsible by except a few---mostly those who read "propaganda" like Common Dreams----you know----those "progressives" ---those liberals who dare to do the unthinkable---that is think for themselves--and they seem to have been powerless so far in American history. With modern technology at current levels, death of the innocent at the hands of the Americans is simply a matter of pushing a single button.
The USA has much to answer for to the world, whether it is sooner or later depends upon many factors but they will answer for it someday just as every other offender in history has.

For those out there who believe that "God is on their side"-----I would be very very afraid of that "God"-------and the world should be afraid of the USA-----because who is next.

Try not to forget that the USA supplied Iraq with weapons and technology when Iraq was at war with Iran----in fact GHW Bush has worked for several years now to find and dispose of photographic proof of his meeting with Saddam----the American people as a whole have very short memories----and that alone may spell their hard won doom.
Then again perhaps their only reason for existing has been to serve as a negative exampled for history---if that be the case, they already are a bright shining NEGATIVE EXAMPLE, ALMOST LIKE A LIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF A DEEP WELL-------------

pieces like this should be on the front page hometown papers everyday. MSM doesn't sit well with TRUTH. americans are tired of war. its always the war cheerleaders that never fight in em, they are too busy getting rich playing oil contracts and the stock market...

This is what happens when the US uses bribes to gather intelligence. For enough money lots of people will point the finger at someone they have a grudge with. You can have whole villages that you are feuding with wiped out by the US this way- good bye annoying neighbors- and have a bundle of US dollars in your pocket to boot. Then all the US has to say is that they were acting on reliable intelligence, sorry, oh whoops, they don't even say sorry do they.
I am ill every day reading about the horrendous actions of the US. I am so ashamed and feel so helpless. I used to spend whole Saturdays writing to my congressmen- what good does it do? Our system is broken- hopefully not beyond repair.

Heckovajob General

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The US Senate on Thursday voted to confirm the promotion of General David Petraeus, currently the top US general in Iraq, to head all US operations in the Middle East, including the war in Afghanistan.

Heckovajob Congress

Revolting

>>Any loss of civilian life is tragic," said Nielson-Green, the coalition spokeswoman. "We never target non-combatants. We do go to great length to avoid civilian casualties."

If it happens once you can make this argument. If it happens again and again, then it policy.

The decision was made to launch an air strike and those that ordered said strike KNEW there would be civilian casualties. Thus it was deliberate. They simply rationalized the attack worth it, inferring the lives of those civilians worthless.

Imagine using this arguement were there a hostage taking in a school in the United States.

"Yes we called in an airstrike. Yes unfortunately 130 schoolchildren died. It is regretable but we were not targeting the children."

No American in their right mind would accept such. Why should we accept it when it happens to Afghanis?

The "process of elimination" is not the most efficient way to ensure that one gets the Bad Guy(s), but every episode of collateral damage improves the odds that next time, the people you kill are that much less likely to be innocent bystanders.

I trust that the US "Death from Above" practitioners at least have the courtesy to drop leaflets encouraging the collaterally damaged not to take it personally.