A question:
Is our country so far gone that religious kooks like Hagee are free to attempt to usher in Armageddon and "end times" using US foreign policy and military action? Are so far up the creek without a paddle that the long-established AIPAC lobby, working for Israel against US interests, can partner with these kooks to make war inevitable?

If the citizens are not this far gone, how can this policy become manifest?

Clever aipac folks know that Hagee armageddon folks believe in some old mythology fed to the world long ago. So the aipac folks [great opportunists] use the Hagee freaks, among others. The wonderful world of fascism.

AIPAC, the Christian Right, & the neo-con Republicans: 3 peas in a pod...the criminally insane, the hopelessly stupid, and the most successful group of murdering thieves that ever walked the planet...jeezuz! Will it ever stop raining shit?

How long are stupid Christians going to wait for the second coming before they finally wake up and realize IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN !!!!!! And the first coming never happened either. Jesus never even existed, he's a myth.

As a Christian (Quaker) and supporter of the Palistianians,Peace& Justice worldwide I wish more on the left would be able to see that not all Christians think like this man. Many of us reject completly his theology and his politics. For my athiests friends (and I DO mean friends) please try to show respect to all people, Christian,Jew,Sikh,Wiccan,Agnostic,Muslim,Bahai,Buddhist,Hindu,Tao,New Age,Marxist,etc,etc. We all share this planet and we can only move forward when we learn to show respect to those whom we disagree with. I'm not asking anybody to share my theology, just please DO not put me or anybody or ANY faith into a box of your making.(this is most often done to Muslims by frightened Christians) So often I find that we on the left are just as narrow minded as those on the right.PEACE!

There are a lot of scared people out there who are looking to be led, and they are not necessarily drawn to the smartest or most humane, they are drawn to those who tell them how to blame someone else for their ills and fears. It's an old story.

Someone like John Hagee, who apparently knows how to work a crowd, is just another in a long line of such people. The best way to deal with people like this is to continually expose their hypocrisy as publicly as possible, make them into a joke. So who knows about some of Hagee's secrets?

Is he a secret pedophile, tax cheat, frequenter of prostitutes male and/or female, druggie? What moral hammer does he use the most? That is usually a good indication of where his particular hypocrisy lies, i.e. the anti gay legislators and pastors who end up getting caught having gay sex, the anti drug crusader like Rush who turns out to be an addict who steals prescription pads, the great "uniter" "decider" imbecile who starts wars and cannot decide anything without being told what to think or do.

So who knows what's Hagee's thing?

John McCain did the right thing by distancing himself from the nonsensical fanaticism of the like of Rev John Hagee - if anything he should have done it a long time ago.

Oh what fun! Watching Hagee lead his 'Christians for Israel' through the endless minefields of Iran.

This isn't fiction, it's real !!! Dark humor is enfolding us.

Send the ugly fat boy in first. His make believe god is sure to protect him from mines, and truthtelling, and other scary stuff. He can also take along his congregation for cannon fodder; especially the ones he was going to sell to the multi level marketing guys anyway.

Whenever I hear the oxymoron 'Christians for Israel' I always smile to myself and remember the button from my schooldays...

'Campus Crusade for CTHULU'... 'Cthulu SAVES! (in case He's hungry later).'

A while back, I decided to watch televangelists with the sould off: To just watch their body language. Previously, I paid no attention to what Hagee said, and still don't, but his body language is pure hate.

Mammon's stupid minions.

Hey Galen! Here's another one from awhile back, too:

"Jesus Loves You; Cthulu Loathes You"

Why is it that these radical Christian war mongers like Hagee get free rein to say whatever destructive, vindictive, hateful, and adversarial shit they want and no one seems to blink an eye, let alone chastise them . . . but then Reverend Jeremiah Wright has the guts to tell the truth about America's violent past (and present), and he gets raked across the coals by the media and left to die by Barack Obama?

Oh wait . . . that's right . . . we're living in the country ruled by the military-industrial complex. The question answered itself. Sorry for being stupid.

Given that a majority of the people of Iran are not that enamored with either their clerics or their president, it shouldn't be that hard to engineer regime change from within. This notion that IT HAS TO BE A WAR THING that kills Iranians (like Iraqis) seems like narrow thinking.
Elect BHO and give the whole thing 12 months.

BARUCH: You've definitely got the psychology thing nailed!

SPIKE: Your comment made me laugh out loud. So dark, and probably so damn true!

Whatever happened to the separation of church and state?

Harry Truman once said (referring to a political opponent)"the surest way to show a jack ass for what he is is to give him a platform from which to bray." Thus it is with John Hagee and others of his ilk.

Doll:
I have done the same thing (turned down the sound and watched the kinesthetics of whoever is talking--especially facial gestures and eye movements (neuro-linguistic programming training). Doing that with the talking heads and their political guests on TV is most revealing. As the song goes:

Everybody's talking at me
I don't hear a word they're saying
Only the echoes of my mind

People stopping staring
I can't see their faces
Only the shadows of their eyes

When you turn down the sound, most TV loses a lot of its hypnotic power and can even become revelatory if you know what to look for.

Hint: watch for frequent blinking of the eyes (often a sign of lying)and frequent movement up and to the right or left. Up and to the right means visual remembered and up and to the left means visual crearted (they are making this up as they speak).

macboo, perhaps you can help me understand something and for a reference point I would put myself in the agnostic segment with a spiritual leaning if that makes any sense to you.

I consider the Dobsons and the Hagees and Right-Wing Evangelical Fundamentalists to be the most ungodly people on this planet since they use the Bible as a weapon and their church as a political structure to exert power over others. Very simply I consider them predators.

My question is this: Why is it that moderate churches -those that generally interpret the bible in metaphors rather than in power expedient literally-translated cherry-picked commands full of violence, why do these churches never publicly speak out against these monsters?

It is one thing to have respect for other religions but when these people become political power brokers spewing hatred and lies surely it is the duty of moderate religions to speak out?

Time for some sixties-style actions. We need some "Satanists United For Israel" to turn up to these "Christians United For Israel" meetings, and lead a prayer session, thanking Satan that though one Jesus of Nazareth refused to bow down and worship him in return for power over all the nations of the world, his followers have been more than willing to do it instead.

@DuraMater July 11th, 2008 3:42 am
Great idea!

@Daniel David July 10th, 2008 10:26 pm
"Given that a majority of the people of Iran are not that enamored with either their clerics or their president, it shouldn't be that hard to engineer regime change from within."

You HAVE been drinking the coolaid!

3 years ago, the Iranians grew tired of their previous president, and elected Ahmenijad. Soon (if Iran is not destroyed), the Iranians will decide if they are not happy with Ahmenijad, and if your are right in that they are sick of him, then they (not you or us) will elect someone else, and he wont have a name like "Fred". Then, within two months the American public (and you in particular) will forget that the Iranian "dictator" was called "Ahmenijad". The US media WONT tell you that the Iranian government has changed, but will proceed to thoroughly demonise the next president "Fred" as if he had been a dictator forever, because that is an AIPAC requirement.

The Iranian democracy is far from perfect, but it compares favorably with our own corporate, AIPAC controlled, two party plutocracy. Now whether you like the Iranian democracy or not, we have absolutely no right to interfere with it, or impose a plutocracy on them, any more than the Iranians have any right to impose an Islamic theocracy on us.

Come to think about it, we already DID impose regime change from within, sixty years ago. We overthrew the democratic government that had a western style democracy and imposed the Shah. He was a total despotic dictator who required US backing in order to rule. Our CIA taught his regime how to torture. And he did plenty of that. They managed to throw him out 30 years ago. Do you think they will want to go back to having a US puppet government. No chance. Do you want them to have a US puppet government? I hope not, DD.

Oh the irony.

According to their own doctrine they would have to have faith to be saved, yes?

"Vengeance is mine"..... (and this isn't even vengeance, it's preemption.)

So there for, if one really trusted in god's power, than they would believe if Saddam really needed to go but the Iraqis were good people, than God could always give Saddam a heart attack or something right?

So even though their Bible teaches them that God can create pillars of fire and part the sea, they don't have faith in their god, rather in bombs and jet fighters.

The funniest thing is that true events that occurred where righteousness prevailed, like South Africa, without the use of force and loads of dead bodies, it wasn't predominately Christians behind the movement, yet those people behind it had faith in what was right and true which should be the definition of God.

But really, why don't they just go over and fight themselves. Sign up for the army and thin your herd please.

P.S. Good one DuraMater!

I always wanted to see a "Satanists for Bush" hanging with the
Christians pushing for death and blood for their master. A video camera there would be priceless. Sasha Baron Cohen can't do all this on his own ya know.

macboo

Quakers and Catholic Workers are always welcome here by me, and you have my great respect. God bless and peace to you too.

Braithwa842 - you are right about not interfering in Iran. Our governments should leave well alone, but Ahmadinejad was elected in quite an unfair process. Daniel David is quite correct, when he says that the majority of Iranians are not enamoured with their present leadership, but it came about for two main reasons. Ahmadinejad was Mayor of Tehran, and did much to improve the infrastructure within the city, and fought corruption. He became a poor people's champion. The elections themselves were flawed, because many of the reformist party were not allowed to take part. One reason for hope in Iran, is the population, and the average age. Unlike the UK (possibly the US), Iran has a very young population, who are becoming ever more restless for change. Ahmadinejad may have said, that the Zionist regime would disappear from the pages of history, but chances are that his will go first.
Going back to the main topic, I was brought up a Catholic, but have been turned off religion by the hypocrisy of it all. How can there be a chosen people? How can modern folks believe in Creationism? How can you carry out a suicide attack, because some old bastard with a beard, has said you will be rewarded with 40 virgins in heaven? Notice how the ones giving the orders hardly ever put themselves in harms way.

Baruch:

There's something about Hagee that would expose him for the hypocrite he is. My guess is tax cheat--these preachers think that because they are doing God's work, everything for them should be free from tax. We don't get to deduct the cost of our clothes for work, our meals at work, our housing or auto expenses, very much of anything else. I'd bet a dollar to your dime that Hagee spends a fortune on himself, but only shows nominal taxable income. Most of these preachers are like the biblical Pharisees who spend lavishly on themselves in the belief that they are superior and chosen by God. I bet Hagee is a smart guy, but would also bet there are deep flaws that would expose him as the charlatan he is. You hit the nail on the head.

I guess the holy land Christians (the descendants of the original ones), i.e. Palestinian,Iraqi, and Lebanese Christians don't count for these sick and twisted evangelicals and they are just cannonfodder for the rapture.

I am a firm believer in the wisdom of the words; "If ye believe".
Accordingly, PASTOR Hagee, and his "flock" of believers should think this matter out in a much different manner.
Take all of their money and "pool it"; this should be in the lower billions, "Johns" portion would exceed several millions no doubt, ---he could sell his 8k acre ranch, his "mansions", private jets, autos etc, the enormous church in San Antonio could be simply abandoned---after the "rapture" it will just be a big pigeon's nest anyway--*. Then the "Shepard" and his "flock" could fit themselves out in the finest military equipment money could buy (Mr. Hagee would of course need to have his uniforms tailor made, since people with that large a girth, could not find uniforms ready made, since people that large cannot qualify for military service) but that is ok anyway, they'll exchange them for Robes and Crowns once they win the war and get to "heaven".
They could all spread their arms out, catch a good wind, fly on over to Iran AND ATTACK THOSE IRANIANS THEMSELVES----free those poor Israelites from the danger of being attacked, start the "Armageddon" themselves ---cause God needs the help ya know----after all even God's got some limitations according to them---he must have limitations otherwise he would not need so much help from so many humans down here on earth. After all it certainly appears that God needs help with money---he is always sending people like "John" out to collect it for him.

If the "true believers" here "truly believe" they would just fly on over to Iran and the Iranians would simply "surrender"---not one drop of blood would be shed--I am absolutely sure that the mere sight of John Hagee in full battle dress would melt steel--and THEN Israel would be able to accept Jesus as the Messiah, and they all could go on up to heaven and leave the rest of us here to suffer at the hands of the "Devil" because we DID NOT BELIEVE----------

In short if "Pastor" Hagee and his "sheep" truly believed what they say they believe they would just go on over there to Iran (if they could find it on a map of course) and defeat those non-believing "Mohammedans" themselves----they would not need a Military, even one as powerful as the US Military cause they would have GOD with them-----yea GOD, rock it to em, sock it to em, go God go...

If there were simply enough people out there who can laugh at these people loud enough, those people would either shut up ---or put up. If they truly believed their propaganda--they would mount a Military Attack themselves.
With "god on their side", it shouldn't take anymore than say "John" and perhaps two or three others to defeat 70 Million Iranians.

If I WERE A BELIEVER----THAT IS WHAT I WOULD DO--------------

* I have found it amazing for many years now that hard working people will send their money to multi-millionaire "Bible Thumpers" and not think a thing of it----but will collectively allow hungry children to exist in the most agriculturaly productive nation on the planet.

@AndyUK July 11th, 2008 8:43 am

Yes, you are right that it is flawed. The church should not have a veto over who is allowed to stand for election. The end result is probably frustration - like what I feel about our system.

I am an Anglican (C of E). My church was born because King Henry wanted a divorce, and the pope would not let him. So he created a new church with himself as the head of it. If you think that is not a good basis for religion, you would be right, but then the first head of the Christian church, Emperor Constantine, edited and selected existing religious accounts to create our bible, which is now known as "the gospel truth". Before Constantine, the virgin mary was not a virgin. Before Constantine, Jesus Christ was a prophet, not god. And of course, Emperor Constantine appointed himself as head of the church.

The Christian Right is neither....american cultural christianity may well be the Church of Apostasy, and we are witnessing "the great turning away" that occurs in the christian church immediately prior to the return of Christ for His Own who remain faithful to Him....and not to ANY government on Earth. All governments lie, steal and murder;they always have and they always will.....All nationalism is idolatry before the living God and all people reap what they sow. Americans have sown to the wind and are now reaping the whirlwind. Oh well, it was a nice planet while it lasted, and besides, like the late great HST used to say: "You bought the ticket, now take the ride." Bon voyage, mon ami.