Should Bush Be Tried for War Crimes?
The chorus demanding George Bush be prosecuted for torture and other constitutional abuses is getting louder
I had a good laugh when my friend Seth Gitell reported in the New York Sun on a campaign by the dean of the obscure Massachusetts School of Law to put George Bush and other top White House officials on trial for war crimes.
Lawrence Velvel, Gitell notes, wrote last month that his model was the Nuremberg trials held after second world war. Velvel went so far as to say that "we must insist on appropriate punishments, including, if guilt is found, the hangings visited upon top Germans and Japanese." Oh, my.
Though I found Velvel's apparently earnest quest as ridiculous as Gitell did, the idea of holding our leaders accountable for the crimes and constitutional violations of the past seven and a half years isn't ridiculous in the least.
We are less than a decade removed from impeaching a president and nearly relieving him of office because of a lie in a civil deposition about blowjobs. Yet when congressman Dennis Kucinich recently attempted to impeach Bush over torture, extraordinary rendition and other grotesque constitutional abuses, Kucinich's embarrassed fellow Democrats couldn't kill the measure quickly enough.
Why? Top Democrats are so complicit in what has happened since 9/11 that my guess is they dare not travel down that road. From voting in favor of the war in Iraq to holding the telecommunications companies guiltless for their role in spying on Americans (Barack Obama infuriated much of his progressive base by voting for immunity), the Democrats have often acted more as enablers than as a true opposition party. From their point of view, no doubt it's best to move on.
And yet we can't move on. Everywhere you turn, there are reminders of the demons that have been unleashed in the name of fighting terrorism. We are less democratic and less free than we were before Bush and Dick Cheney entered office following an election that they demonstrably did not win. If we don't come to terms with what happened, there's little chance of reversing our slide into authoritarianism.
We shouldn't be too optimistic. Even when the truth is proclaimed, few are willing to listen. Not long ago the McClatchy newspapers published a five-part series on what went wrong with American detention policies, mainly at Guantánamo and in Afghanistan.
The massively documented stories revealed horrifying tales of torture and abuse; of innocent Afghans imprisoned for years because they ran afoul of tribal rivalries the Americans didn't understand; of ordinary people radicalised and transformed into violent jihadists inside US-run prisons. Yet because McClatchy is not part of the media elite, its journalism has barely been mentioned by the New York Times, the Washington Post and the television networks.
We find ourselves, nevertheless, at a certain transformational moment where things that had long gone unsaid are now being spoken aloud. Take, for instance, the ideologically promiscuous war supporter Christopher Hitchens, the British expat who recently underwent waterboarding - voluntarily - and pronounced it to be torture. Hitchens can't help himself from inveighing against any "lame and diseased attempt to arrive at a moral equivalence between those who defend civilisation and those who exploit its freedoms to hollow it out". Still, he concludes by saying he wishes Americans didn't practice torture.
Or consider Vincent Bugliosi's new book, The Prosecution of George W Bush for Murder, which has zoomed up the bestseller lists despite having received virtually no attention from the mainstream media. Bugliosi, a celebrity lawyer-author with a decent reputation, argues that because Bush misled the country into the war in Iraq, he should be held criminally responsible for the deaths of American soldiers.
Finally, consider that most mild-mannered of liberal pundits, the Times' Nicholas Kristof, who on Sunday actually called for the formation of a truth commission in the manner of post-apartheid South Africa "to lead a process of soul searching and national cleansing".
The determinedly bipartisan Kristof, who did read the McClatchy series, writes that both Obama and John McCain should commit themselves to forming such a commission. For that to make sense, though, you'd have to ignore such inconvenient facts as McCain's own ambiguous stands on torture and his demagoguery over the supreme court's recent decision upholding the habeas corpus rights of those being held at Guantánamo.
Velvel is organising a weekend-long war crimes conference to be held in mid-September at his campus at the Massachusetts School of Law. The school is located in the beautiful New England town of Andover, home of Phillips Andover Academy, of which Bush is an alumnus. Shuttle buses will be running from the nearby Wyndham Hotel for those attending from elsewhere. It promises to be a fun-filled two days of righteous anger, leading to nothing.
But if Bush shouldn't be hanged by the neck until dead, as the ancient pronouncement would have it, he - and we - nevertheless must be called to account for what we have allowed to happen to our country. If we don't, then we are all responsible - if not for what happened, then for what is yet to come.
Longtime media critic Dan Kennedy teaches journalism at Northeastern University in Boston and blogs at Media Nation.
© Guardian News and Media Limited 2008
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69 Comments so far
Show AllThrow us gullibles a bone before the election. That's what its all about. Surely, if we had justice in our country, Bush and his gang would have been tried of war crimes years ago. It's all a net of media hype and nothing will happen to these hoods. And Obama just threw a curve that ruins any hope for justice when he voted for the wire tapping. It's all a bunch of bull.
Should Bush be tried for war crimes? (snort) Is the pope Catholic? Of COURSE --- since he's a war criminal!
But not to worry, the toothless Congress doesn't want to ruffle his feathers. From Pelosi on down they love the Chimp to death and will protect him at any cost. Notice the way they will let Karl Rove off the hook after he ignores the subpoena. It would be a different story if it were a Democrat that ignored a subpoena; he'd have been promptly arrested. Karl Rove must be laughing his arse off. These thugs are all making fools of us.
This is all nonsense.
Without hundreds of thousands of thugs, lackeys and enablers, the gangsters behind the jokers on Penn Ave. and Wall St. would be nothing but a bunch of two bit shysters.
If the 'good' americans really want to clean up their country, they'll have to apply the same standards to anyone wearing a uniform, anyone working on Wall St. and anyone involved in researching and developing chemical and biological agents and other fiendish weapons.
Of course that won't happen. Instead, let's obsess a little longer about Obama and impeaching the dick and his chimp. At least we'll FEEL like we're doing something.
It is WAY PAST time when we should bring our troops home and vote them it to replace our entire Congress.
The current Congress is either complicit in the violations of our Constitution and human rights, or being quietly blackmailed into submission... only Cheney knows for sure.
Either way, just about every one of them needs to be REPLACED.
Bush's war crimes are merely a reflection of the corrupt state of America today. American society is rotten to its core, driven to irreversible decline by greed and capitalism. If there were any hope for America, Americans would've found a way to stop Bush's despicable crimes by now.
Let's not forget that 95% of the world serial killers live here, the US is the world's greatest polluter, the greatest consumer of illegal drugs, the greatest exporter of arms, the greatest sponsor and financier of terror and guerrilla on Earth, the most brutal imperial force on the planet, not to mention the fattest, the least educated and most sexually repressed (and repressing) nation in the developed world.
Such environment is perfect breeding ground for bacteria and superbugs like Bush and Cheney. Let's not be so surprised they exist.
The whole place needs to be condemned and the pests exterminated, there isn't any other way. Or more monsters like Bush and Cheney will surface.
Bastille Day July 14
"We announce to the world the true principles of our actions. We wish an order of things where all low and cruel passions are enchained by the laws; all beneficent and generous feelings awakened; where distinctions arise only from equality itself; where the citizen is subject to the magistrate; the magistrate to the people, the people to justice. Where industry is an adornment to the liberty that ennobles it and commerce the source of public wealth, not simply of monstrous riches for a few families. We wish to substitute in our country morality for egoism, probity for a mere sense of honor, principle for habit, duty for etiquette, the empire of reason for the tyranny of custom, contempt for vice for contempt for misfortune; the grandeur of man for the triviality of grand society. We wish, in a word, to fulfill the course of nature, to absolve providence from the long reign of tyranny and crime."
Maximilien Robespierre
Sadly, LiPo is correct. Most Democrats are so complicit in the war crimes of the Bush/Cheney cabal that it would take a diversion of the Potomac through the Congress to flush out all the corruption, as Heracles cleaned out the Augean stables. Any remaining pretense of a democratic republic should be laid to rest. "A republic, if you can keep it," said Benjamin Franklin in 1776. Obviously, we couldn't.
If charges were brought they would be thrown out. Why? Because the whole American system is complicit in the crimes that this administration has committed. The system can never allow itself to be tried for its crimes.
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Feith should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Bush and Cheney should be impeached and removed from office.
Bruce Fein, associate deputy attorney general under Reagan, has been an enthusiastic advocate of impeachment and would be a logical choice to lead the prosecution.
A toast: "To the guillotine! May it maintain its empire until all crowned heads are laid in the dust! 3 Cheers!"
From the Elizabethtown, NJ "Herald," 15 July, 1795. Quoted here: http://www.common-place.dreamhost.com/pasley/
The underlying problem is that:
Americans DO NOT have good values.
On Morning Joe today Mike Barnacle was asked why he loves America...and all he talked about was how good America has been for him and how he believes it will be good for his family in the future.
Where are the values outside of personal gratification?
Barnicle accurately expressed American values... which are : if I am happy then the nation will prosper...greed is good is a corollary to the basic value of taking care of oneself. This poor value system hides itself as "individualism" but in reality people are more concerned about their own personal interests than in any philosophy.
So most don't care about the torture of anyone as long as it is not them or their family...as long as they are not affected they do not care what happens to other people!
People with good values would be outraged that their government, the US government, had tortured innocent people.
So how do they conceal their lack of values? They say that torture is needed to get information from terrorists...
while ignoring that innocent people have been tortured...and that some innocent people... who had NOTHING to tell... have died while being tortured under US law by agents of the American government.
The original question was 'should', which an early commentator pointed out should really be 'when', but given that 'when' and not 'should' is the correct word, we need to ask 'why' nothing is being done. Spineless democrats are not really an answer, because the obvious response is what do you expect from them, as they are all the same, tweedledee and tweedledum branches of the American Business Party, as others have pointed out, and as someone noted above, getting the kind of investigation into Bush et al that is required would also wind up with a LOT of Dems in the Dock as well (all of them, no doubt, if the investigation went deep enough). I am surprised that noone has noted the obvious complicity of the media here, reflecting the priorities of those who own the media, of course - why was Clinton impeached over nothing? The media were on the case 24/7, publishing everything the Republicans demanded and said, and embellishing endlessly on their own - but with the real crimes of Bush et al, they do nothing but conceal and gatekeep. The whole country needs a major shakeup. For anyone truly ready to get out of the rabbit hole, you could start here - They're Building a Box - and You're In It - http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html
It seems to our European friends we really are a Paper Tiger! I quite agree with them, we whine, wail and grind our teeth to the miscarriage of Justice from both the Republican and Democratic members of Congress. Fine! I agree with National strike on 9/11/08. Perhaps, a non violent revolution is what this country needs. What about you? Stand up and fight! Oh and Europe, a little help please if one of these criminals come to your country, have your leaders arrest them as War Criminals...lets see how much power you have with your respective governments!!
What went wrong with this administration is an act of physics. People here seem to share the goal of preventing further harm by this man and this administration, and in preventing similar humanitarian catastrophes (millions dead, injured, maimed, tortured, displaced, impoverished to the fiscal advancement and perpetuation of a military industrial complex and wealthy controlling class.)
The problems can be approached with confidence, success, and the compassion all people deserve, even toward those who act without compassion for others.
Bush attained power how? Corporate Media, misinformation/propaganda, voter fraud, disenfranchised voters, celebration of anti-intellectualism, over-reliance on personal charm and confidence, delusions of divine will.
Bush retained power how? " " " plus a (misunderstanding? fear? corruption?) on the part of Democrats regarding their responsibility to uphold the constitution and impeach someone who commits war crimes. (Impeachment is never convenient or without risk, and that's why the framers made it a responsibility, not a choice.)
Run for office. Write and call your representatives. Hold your paper, your news channel, your magazine articles, your corporate sponsors, your corporate suppliers, accountable to compassionate, reality based principles, with letters, calls, your pocket book. Be creative. Use your strengths and spread quality information. Consume quality information from national and international sources.
Vote for the best choice for President who embraces reason and evidence based government = OBAMA.
Demand Pelosi put impeachment back on the table, where the constitution requires it to be in the face of tyranny. Demand international bodies like the international criminal court hold our leaders accountable as they would others' leaders. And as for those impeached, compassionately make sure they can no longer inflict harm through restriction of political privileges, fines, public service.
Insist on publicly financed elections, paper ballots, universal health care, workers rights, a department of peace, separation of church and state, high quality public education for all, international exchange programs, and a robust internet that allows conversations and high quality information like this to continue free of corporate control.
Help yourself. Help others. Do no harm. Prevent harm through knowledge and compassionate intervention. Practice PEACE through mutual understanding. Learn. Think. They're not perfect, but compassionate, ethical science and medicine seem to be the best tools we have to finding our way toward a world free of so many of political/economic/interpersonal cruelties we now endure.
My personal thoughts at first ran along the lines of life imprisonment for the whole administration, including Nancy P., and have them rotated through a world tour of all the places they have sent others to be tortured. Then the thought of them also having to do chain gang work restoring habitat they have destroyed has some appeal. Cleaning up the Killing Fields.
Then again: The fact is that "After all it was you and me..." got me to think that the only way out of this whole dilemma, that I can see, is through forgiveness.
Not a Pollyanna here.
The changes that need to happen include a massive redirection of current investment lines, resource allocations. The rich are in the best position to reposition themselves to both shape and benefit from the redirection of investment toward cleaning up and making an advanced technological sustainable economy that is both Capitalistic and Democratic. But change on a personal level and on a collective level only come with forgiveness, absolution; repentance and penance.
This would be a great motivator for many of the principle and minor actors-architects of neo-con-ism, known and unknown. Pardons for the Administration can be worked with Congressional Hearings. Within the legislation for the pardons, immunity, there would be a very harsh penalty for "Contempt of Congress." Then get talented interviewers, cross examiners to draw out a complete picture of just what happened and how. This will be sobering and healing to the players and the general public.
The technology is now available to facilitate what even a generation ago would seem too impractical: Peace, World Peace. The fact is we can make a credible effort at cleaning up the mess; at redirecting investment to uplift Humanity and Open up the potential, in our lifetimes of a World Golden Age.
Too Optimistic?
We can't afford to not be Optimistic. "Let the word go out..."
What does it mean to Not try Our Best to step forward?
Should Bush Be Tried for War Crimes?
Yes indeed he should. What about the others in the Bush Administration? What about the Congress of the United States of America?
It seems the USA along with committing an illegal war also committed genocide in Iraq. What do we say and what do we do about the genocide?
~HEAVY RUNNER~. 7:21 pm ___ You nailed it.
Yes, we are all responsible.
First I blamed Bush and the Republicans.
Then I blamed the Media too for not doing their job.
Then I blamed the Complicit Party (most of Bush's criminal acts would not have been possible without the Dems' support)
Now I blame most Americans, including supporters of the Democratic Party.
But to come to the main question: yes Bush should tried for war crimes - and don't forget the Democratic Leadership too for their complicity. But that's not gonna happen in this One Party democratic system (REPs=DEMs)
What's with all these headlines lately on this site in the form of questions that all have the same answer? "Duh".
"...fear is the will to power from impotence, the will to dominate or else be dominated But this thirst for power born of fear can never be stilled, because fear and mutual distrust make 'acting in concert,' in Burke's phrase, impossible, so that tyrannies, while they persist, grow increasingly less powerful. Tyrannies are doomed because they destroy the togetherness of men: by isolating men from one another they seek to destroy human plurality. They are based on the one fundamental experience in which I am alone, which is to be helpless, unable to enlist the help of my fellow men." (Arendt, "The Promise of Politics", p 69.)
Tyranny = unaccountable power.
Of course he should be tried. It's what kind of punishment to inflict that I spend my time dreaming of. For a while there, bringing back the guillotine seemed just and fair. I like someone above's idea of turning the reflecting pool crimson red. Jefferson would be proud!
But now, I'm leaning towards the old 'frog-blowing-up' idea. George had SO much fun with that when he was young!
Simple, not much more expensive than a rope. One stick of dynamite up his ass. And then Dickey, too.
Gotta admit I like the idea of seizing all their money and neutering their progeny, just in case.
Mr. Kennedy. What is your problem with hanging the whole lot of them? Traitors need to be hung by the neck until they rot away.
Rope is cheap and there will be no shortage of volunteers to tickle their feet for awhile,
Rope is cheap: the lives of our children should not be.
So here we go, the American people clamoring for justice but not willing to do anything about it. We have been sold this "outsourcing" nonsense for so long that now we're looking to outsource American justice?
It really sickens me to see how bad we as a nation have become, a nation of whiners and complainers but do nothing to help ourselves.
The mantra that cries out, "I'm only one person what can I do?" or my personal favorite, "I'm too busy trying to survive to get involved".
And I can't remember the person up there some where that said, that we deserve the govt me have. I wholeheartedly agree!!!
What have we done over the last 7 1/2 years to stop this criminal administration? Not a damn thing!
What really blows me away is the fact that this "president" was never legally elected into office. Yet the American people just accepted it. Oh yes we wrote articles, did news casts about how dissatisfying it all was and how disenfranchised we all felt, how powerless we are, we all cried.
But we did NOTHING to prevent the death knell of liberty of these United States of America and now we're looking to some foreign govt to come and save us, as if the rest of the worlds' leaders arent in on this raping of American liberty and justice?
Phulez!
What can one person do?
Write to your local and federal govt representatives to let them know that not only are you paying attention but you're mad as hell! Unless the outsourcing of justice is more palatable to you?
It states in the declaration of independence, that if our govt is not adhering to the rules of law and is behaving in this craven manner that our current administration (with assistance from the democratic representatives) which is not only demoralizing the American public but destroying us at home and abroad, that it is not only our right but our OBLIGATION to pull down this govt and put in one that will do what is right for the nation and its people!
Do we march on Washington?
That's an option but I'm sure that the excuse mongers will whine that with gas prices the way they are, that they cant afford to be patriotic or conscientious!
And letter writing is not effective on the grand scheme of things. (Its a start but there needs to be more)
We want reform and change and its not going to happen in the demopulican govt we have ruling things now.
We live in a feudal society and most people dont even realize that this system of slavery is in place at the moment. Our "royalty" are a bit more generous then those of medieval times as we have much better toys to play with then they did. However this is feudalism at its best and its time that we wake up to it and revolt!
How do we do this?
Well with this fear driven propaganda that has been instilled in so many of us, that our govt is too big and scary and no one wants to jeopardize their lives or families lives. (Land of the free? or land of the fearful?) So, I propose that we take a book out of the police and teachers unions. When they want something that they're not getting, what do they do, the all get "sick" and stay home.
So on Sept. 11th, I propose that every man, woman and child stay home.
Don't send your children to school; don't buy anything; don't put gas in your car or go anywhere, the day before, empty out your bank accts and just stay home.
Just for one day!
Is your boss going to fire everyone for not going to work? Doubtful; are the police going to show up at your door and at the threat of arrest, force you to go to the grocery store? Not yet, maybe if this keeps up a law will be passed that will make it mandatory to shop but not yet. So what do you have to lose to make this statement?
A days pay?
Well I know that in this economy, that in itself can be rather scary, but if we organize this for Sept 11th, that will give everyone plenty of time to save for this ONE day off!
Send a message to every corporate govt muckity muck, that we ARE paying attention, that we will not put up with this anymore and that its time that when they make those decisions on capitol hill that they do so with the constitution in mind!
We the ameriCAN people DEMAND justice and are NOT willing to outsource one single solitary job ever again!
And if we don't do something soon, the bill that is sitting in the sentate the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007, will make these types of movements not only illegal but will put us all in prison as terrorists for even thinking of such a thing, much less acting on it!
And if you don't like this idea, come up with one of your own, just do something, anything to stop the madness!!! I personally have wrote out this idea and have sent it out on an email forwarding compaign and I write about it in any appropriate blog or forum discussing this possibility.
A national sick out, because WE THE PEOPLE are sick of our govt and the current state of affairs. We want justice and we want it now!
So… are you an ameriCAN or an ameriCANT? Or do you prefer living as a feudal servant in a constant state of misery and fear?
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what YOU can do for your country" - JFK
T.Bone Pickens for president!
Bush should be convicted of war crimes.
WORDS TO THE GUI$E...(LIES: on the "Prize")
http://flickr.com/search/?q=ARTIST+GENERAL+warning&m+text
What Hellbent VisionThing
Its Truthless Power
Come Round At Last,
$louches Towards Liberty
To Be Borne?
(Google: second succumbing )
http://9832039958636920832.slide.com/
just be thankful you have the best FREE SPEECH ZONE on Earth and it is known as CommonDreams.
you amerikan wimps got what you deserve. rove and cheney are right, you guys are not going to do anything but cry and whine on you FSZ(commondreams).
I just did a Google News search on Kucinich and Impeachment. As of 3:20 p.m., Thursday, July 10, some two hours after Congressman Kucinich introduced this Impeachment resolution, there is precious little coverage in the "mainsteam" media. There have been, however, 1,402 stories on Jesse Jackson joking about cutting off Obama's nuts, and 1,775 stories on JonBeneey Ramsey. What is going on here? Over 4000 of our military personnel have been killed in Bush's war based on lies. A million Iraqis have died. Our economy is in shambles. Can we really believe we have a free press? This smacks, like the torture and other crimes, of Stalinism.
I think things could get incendiary and wild at about $7 a gallon for gasoline. Unfortunately the masses of people in the U.S. have been so totally brainwashed that it is hard to see anything but things getting worse.
Baruch: You are quite correct. Justice begins at home. This mess belongs to all Americans. The rest of us are just innocent bystanders.
Jack37 July 10th, 2008 3:48 pm
If the world could somehow drag Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and all the rest of them to justice—well, we'd have to start the millennium over again…
It's not "the world's" job, it's the job of Americans to see this done. Bush et all got in on our watch and we have to clean it up.
what do you amerikans want? you have the finest FREE SPEECH ZONE right here at CommonDreams. you have given up HABEAS CORPUS. obviously you don't deserve any civil rights that you gave up without a peep. You have the govt you deserve. live with it you cowardly cretins. you sure haven't got what it takes to change anything. you got what you deserved. Rove and cheney are both right; you guys are cowards and ignorant and you like it that way.
Cut his nuts off.
I understand that is now an acceptable method of displaying distaste for political figures.
This is like the question, "Does a bear s**t in the woods?
Jack37 July 10th, 2008 3:48 pm
If the world could somehow drag Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and all the rest of them to justice—well, we'd have to start the millennium over again…
Works for me. Never happen though.
Should we let war criminals operate with impunity?
.
Are we, the American people, so awed by the Office of the President of the United States; that we can't bring ourselves to hold that individual accountable for his illegal actions?????????
Is the Presidency above the U.S. Constitution, Rules of Law, and/or International Laws and Treaties?????????
We, the People of these United States, sorely need to sober-up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IMPEACH both Bush and Cheney...........NOW
Later, turn them and their NeoCons Administration into the International War Crimes Court at the Hague !!!!!!!!!
.
An investigation must start and last until Obama is president. That way Bush can't pardon his thugs and, thereby, escape responsibility for his crimes. An investigation isn't an impeachment but the first step in leading to an impeachment. I feel the Senate will never convict Bush but the exposure of his crimes is an important step in the recovery of this nation's moral standing in the world. All the rest will follow.
If the world could somehow drag Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and all the rest of them to justice---well, we'd have to start the millennium over again...
Gee, Zamboni_fahrer, haven't you heard the good news that President Obama is going to solemnly instruct his Attorney General to go over the records of the Bush maladministration's conduct with a fine-tooth comb for evidence of illegality?
And then, I presume, said comb will be left permanently in one of those jars of blue liquid in the White House barber shop-- at least during the FIRST term.
...article number 8,376,879,002 asking "Should Bush be tried for war crimes?"
Wow! How original.
...I can look forward to reading an article saying the exact same shit as this one does 5...10...15 years from now, too.
...but will anything actually HAPPEN? No.
...just more and more cookie-cutter articles posing the same old lame-ass question, "should Bush be tried?, blah blah effin blah.
A B S O L U T E L Y,
There's growing factual evidence of NIST/bu$h!t/LLNL complicity in hiding existence of "the smoking gun of hidden _9_!_!_ explosives"N I S T __ N E S T __ OF __ N E O C O N s
__ & __ A N T H T R A X __ T O O
… … … … … … … … … … …
This reference is from recent thread "9/11 Third Tower Mystery 'Solved'?" on 5th July, which has seen little attention over the last few days.
Namaste « Presence »
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world » — Gandhi
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed » — Gandhi
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — ML King
I want to know where are the George Soros's at a time like this? He and rich liberals like him could fund a 1000 lawyers, each representing numerous anti-war groups to bury, absolutely bury Bush/Rove/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice in lawsuits. The noise would be so loud and continuous it'd completely drown out the chumps in Congress.
If it weren't for men like Bush you wouldn't be living upon your share of the stolen Indian land today.
Absolutely! And here in rural America, citizens don't mince with words on what the punishment should be. They want law and order to be restored NOW!
I too like the idea of a guillotine, set up on the Mall, with severed heads on pikes lining Pennsylvania Avenue and the reflecting pool crimson red with blood. The death penalty for far too long has been inflicted solely upon the poor and disadvantaged by the rich and powerful; it's high time they had a close shave with the National Razor, Republican and Democrat alike.
Alternatively, perhaps we could kidnap them, drug them, strap them naked and face-down to a gurney and fly them to some dungeon in some far-away country to be tortured for months into confessing...
Or maybe draft them all, dress them up in shoddy body armor that wouldn't stop a spitball, and put them in unarmored trucks flying massive American flags with big red bulls-eyes on the sides to endlessly drive back and forth across the deserts of Iraq...
Or how about putting them all up in the Astrodome with nothing but an old Army blanket and a stale cheese sandwich to their names while the bloated corpses of their spouses lay rotting in a ditch somewhere in Orleans Parish, while some equally bloated privileged patrician bitch stands in front of her limousine and chortles about how well this is working out for them...
Or how about looting their pensions, canceling their health insurance, laying them all off from their jobs, foreclosing on their homes, gutting Social Security & Medicare, and making it impossible for them to seek bankruptcy protection while reassuring them of how low inflation and unemployment is and and how "fundamentally sound" the economy remains...while simultaneously scolding them for not saving for retirement and not profligately spending more money on credit while demanding tax subsidies for the über-rich be made permanent...
Ah, Hell; the guillotine's easier.
liberté, égalité, fraternité!
Should Bush Be Tried for War Crimes?
Bush Should Be Tried for War Crimes!
Just like he did to Saddam.
acute: You're right. It's simply unrealistic to hope for the upheaval here we would need here to smash the tyrannical oligarchy running the country now. The great mass of Americans are comatose from brainwashing and overwork in the updated version of the debt peonage system we have here nowadays. They have been conditioned not to think, to be risk-averse, to keep their noses to the grindstone of deadening jobs, and to seek escape in various types of self-medication. So we here who are awake to the reality of what is happening essentially are doomed to simply be witnesses to the further unraveling of the country. I get called a Cassandra and depressing for talking about these things and issuing warnings, because people don't want to deal with it. Its supremely frustrating, but it helps a lot to have another very different country that one can go to if necessary when things get to out of hand here.
The only way it will happen is for another country to snatch him up off of their streets and try him as an international criminal. We can always hope.
"Though I found Velvel's apparently earnest quest as ridiculous as Gitell did"
Nothing ridiculous about Velvel's "quest"... Don't mock the guy for having the guts to speak truth.
Dan Kennedy's article is crap, and minimizes the crimes committed by Bush, Cheney and their cohorts. This article is just another whitewash of their crimes... sort of a "oh well, they were bad boys... tsk tsk. Let's move on". What bullshit!!! Anyone with half a brain can see that proper war crimes tribunals are necessary is the US is to regain any sort of morality.
Cant see anything not reeking of gutlessness until after the election. Once the votes are in, then maybe there'll be some fortitude.
homeward-angel July 10th, 2008 12:56 pm: "When will Europe honor thier obligation to bring him to trial? the american peoples' hands are tied!!!"
I know that joking about bringing about mass murderers to trial is terribly amusing but if I could be serious for a moment. The American peoples' hands are not tied.
It's very simple, if you want it.
"Register to vote" or "get on the ballot" or jump through whatever hoops the Democrats and Republicans put between you and the Green candidates or whoever does not have their hands already dirty with corruption, then vote. If you don't, the Democrats and Republicans are not going to convict themselves.
The Democrats and Republicans will have roughly two choices. First they will further skew the electoral system in their favour then when that fails, they will try to negotiate terms with the new party. How long this takes and how strong a hand the new party will have depends on how successful you are, at getting the word out to all your friends.
Once you have a multi-party system, you're going to wonder why it all seemed so difficult and hopeless.
There must be upheaval before cleansing. There will be no upheaval in the manner of a revolution because the Amerikans have no strength, no moral foundation. They are mired in the platitudes of the corporate arm of the govorporation. "Just Do It" would be an example. We infer that to mean "Do something w/out thinking." Amerikans are excellent adherents of that mode of action. They eat. They drive and drive and drive. They buy anything plastic & colorful, but not necessarily variegated. They don't think because they "Just Do It."
And the political arm of the govorporation relies on the ignorant Amerikans to "Just Do It." That is why the politicians & their minions plaster placards all over the cities & counties prior to an election day. When the bovine Amerikan enters the voting booth, the first name they recall gets the vote. They don't think, and the political arm of the govorporation takes that to the bank day in and day out 24/7.
We are doomed.
We are doomed.
We are doomed.
As we all know the son of a b---h should be made to duck walk with the rest of the warmonging money worshiping americants. As your leader it only gives my point about how out of ballence the w.a.s.p.s. truly are more shall we say rope!
I am starting to think that the american public is chock full of chicken shits who as long as your getting yours who really cares?
Peace is for the fearless!
Jacob Freeze July 10th, 2008 1:02 pm:
Are advocates of "accountability" really ready to hang Bill Clinton, and a dozen other Democratic officials who oversaw the sanctions?
.
.
.
Are advocates of "accountability" ready to put Barack Obama on trial for voting to fund the war in Iraq?
From a registered Democrat, YES! YES! A thousand times YES to both questions!
Bush is too good for solitary confinement.
Immurement! Now THERE is a suitable punishment!
Immurement is the DELIBERATE walling up of the offender, with only a small slot left for the delivery of a plate of food once a day. When the condemned has not taken his meal for three days, you fill in the last brick.
It was good enough for Erzibet Bathory (the 'Blood Countess' of Hungary...look it up), so it's good enough for Dubya!
As for the entire US government, Democrats and Republicans alike (unless they can PROVE, in court, with paper trail evidence that they voted against ALL the warmongering measures, INCLUDING the PATRIOT ACT I&II, taken by the Bush Junta), the Guillotine should be sufficient.
After all, if it was good enough for the bloated aristos of France, it's good enough for the corporate lackeys of today. We could even see the return of the horse drawn carts (thanks to Peak Oil) and the pelting mobs as the polticos are taken to the block. But I wonder if we would see the fighting to be first in line for the chop, as happened during the French revolution (the blade was sharpest first thing in the morning... after a long day, it would tend to get... dulled).
Most countries that have successfully emerged from a criminal regime succeed because of forgiveness... because of amnesties instead of accountability. Argentina after the rule of the generals, Greece after the rule of the colonels, and Chile after Pinochet are typical of this process of oblivion and progress.
If we start hanging politicians for crimes against humanity, Democrats may see some familiar faces on the scaffold.
Bill Clinton ran genocidal sanctions against Iraq, as exhaustively demonstrated by Joy Gordon in Cool War. Are advocates of "accountability" really ready to hang Bill Clinton, and a dozen other Democratic officials who oversaw the sanctions?
After the execution of Louis XVI, all the legislators who voted for execution were relentlessly persecuted for "regicide." Are advocates of "accountability" ready to put Barack Obama on trial for voting to fund the war in Iraq?
he might have "exempted" himself from war crimes via US law, but he cannot escape international law, which states that he is (and anyone of the dozens, if not hundreds of his minions) liable for his acts as president. When will Europe honor thier obligation to bring him to trial? the american peoples' hands are tied!!!
I take it that it is a rhetorical question?
Here is the clip about Bush exempting himself from war crimes:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wBUkxvfL_eE
The logical lawyer/prosecutor would be Ralph Nader.
You will not get a lawyer to do this you must have the American public. Right now they are to busy watching "Bachlorette" or Whatever on TV.
You want change? Stop waiting for someone else to make it for you. Change yourself and vote Third Party. Any one you prefer . . . . But make the change. Washington DC is busy right taking away your rights. So you better start using the ones you have left before they are gone also.
I do believe Bush already snuck in legislation somewhere along the line exempting himself and his administration from war crimes.
Try YouTubeing it.
If I see anything I'll come back and post it.
Where is the lawyer who can stay out of jail or live long enough to bring it to court?
Indeed he should be tried as should the majority of his cabinet and while they're at it why not toss in Joe Lieberman.
YES YES YES. Where is the lawyer who will do this?
Yes, Juliann. I second that!
The timing of this bit of wishful thinking is not good. Those of us who hope for justice and accountability from our overlords are a bit discouraged this morning. With the Fourth Amendment dripping off George Bush's chin today, we have just become some strange new governmental mutation. I can't see what it is exactly, for all the genuflecting poltroons in Congress, but it sure as hell isn't a Constitutional Democracy.
Tried, convicted, then given life w/o parole in solitary confinement. Let him rot in a small, dark, dank cell with only a toilet, sink and bed. No tv, no radio, no Sporting News or Sports Illustrated. Visitors once a month for an hour. No other human contact. Meals to be eaten alone. It'll drive him mad. Or perhaps, being the moronic slacker he really is, he'll love it. In that case, move him to Devil's Island (formerly Guantanamo) and put him in a 7 x 7 aluminum box out in the broiling sun.
Why does this question continue to be asked? The question should be: WHEN will ACTION be taken?