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Congress Votes to Immunize Lawbreaking Telecoms, Legalize Warrantless Eavesdropping
The Democratic-led Congress this afternoon voted to put an end to the NSA spying scandal by approving a bill to immunize lawbreaking telecoms, terminate all pending lawsuits against them, and vest whole new warrantless eavesdropping powers in the President. The vote in favor of the new FISA bill was 69-28. Barack Obama joined every Senate Republican (and every House Republican other than one) by voting in favor of it, while his now-vanquished primary rival, Sen. Hillary Clinton, voted against it. The bill will now be sent to an extremely happy George Bush, who already announced that he enthusiastically supports it, and he will sign it into law very shortly.
Prior to final approval, the Senate, in the morning, rejected three separate amendments which would have improved the bill but which the White House had threatened would have prompted a presidential veto. With those amendments defeated, the Senate then passed the same bill passed last week by the House, which means it is that bill, in unchanged form, that will be sent to the White House -- just as the White House demanded.
The first amendment, from Sens. Dodd, Feingold and Leahy, would have stripped from the bill the provision immunizing the telecoms. That amendment failed by a vote of 32-66, with all Republicans and 17 Democrats in favor (the roll call vote is here). The next amendment was offered by Sen. Arlen Specter, which would have merely required a court to determine the constitutionality of the NSA spying program and grant telecom immunity only upon a finding of constitutionality. Specter's amendment failed, 37-61 (roll call vote is here). The third amendment to fail was one sponsored by Sen. Jeff Bingaman, merely to require that the Senate waits until the Inspector General audits of the NSA program are complete before immunizing the telecoms. The Bingaman amendment failed by a vote of 42-56 (roll call vote here).
The Senators then voted for "cloture" on the underlying FISA bill -- the procedure that allows the Senate to overcome any filibusters -- and it passed by a vote of 72-26. Obama voted along with all Republicans for cloture. Hillary Clinton voted with 25 other Democrats against cloture. And with cloture approved, the bill itself then proceeded to pass by a vote of 69-28 (roll call vote here), thereby immunizing telecoms and legalizing warrantless eavesdropping. Again, while Obama voted with all Republicans to pass the bill, Sen. Clinton voted against it.
Obama's vote in favor of cloture, in particular, cemented the complete betrayal of the commitment he made back in October when seeking the Democratic nomination. Back then, Obama's spokesman -- in response to demands for a clear statement of Obama's views on the spying controversy after he had issued a vague and noncommittal statement -- issued this emphatic vow:
To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.
But the bill today does include retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies. Nonetheless, Obama voted for cloture on the bill -- the exact opposition of supporting a filibuster -- and then voted for the bill itself. A more complete abandonment of a clear campaign promise is difficult of imagine. I wrote extensively about Obama's support for the FISA bill, and what it means, earlier today. With their vote today, the Democratic-led Congress has covered-up years of deliberate surveillance crimes by the Bush administration and the telecom industry, and has dramatically advanced a full-scale attack on the rule of law in this country. As I noted earlier today, Law Professor and Fourth Amendment expert Jonathan Turley was on MSNBC's Countdown with Rachel Maddow last night and gave as succinct an explanation for what Democrats -- not the Bush administration, but Democrats -- have done today. Anyone with any lingering doubts about what is taking place today in our country should watch this:
What is most striking is that when the Congress was controlled by the GOP -- when the Senate was run by Bill Frist and the House by Denny Hastert -- the Bush administration attempted to have a bill passed very similar to the one that just passed today. But they were unable to do so. The administration had to wait until Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats took over Congress before being able to put a corrupt end to the scandal that began when, in December of 2005, the New York Times revealed that the President had been breaking the law for years by spying on Americans without the warrants required by law.Yet again, the Democratic Congress ignored the views of their own supporters in order to comply with the orders and wishes of the Bush administration. It is therefore hardly a surprise that, yesterday, Rasmussen Reports revealed this rather humiliating finding:Congressional Approval Falls to Single Digits for First Time Ever The percentage of voters who give Congress good or excellent ratings has fallen to single digits for the first time in Rasmussen Reports tracking history. This month, just 9% say Congress is doing a good or excellent job. Most voters (52%) say Congress is doing a poor job, which ties the record high in that dubious category.
The Congress, with a powerful cast of bipartisan lobbyists and the establishment media class lined up behind telecom immunity and warrantless eavesdropping, looked poised to pass this bill back last December, but a large-scale protest was organized -- largely online -- by huge numbers of American who were opposed to warrantless eavesdropping and telecom immunity, and that protest disrupted that plan. Today, Sen. Chris Dodd, the leader of the opposition effort along with Russ Feingold, said on the Senate floor:
Lastly, I want to thank the thousands who joined with us in this fight around the country -- those who took to the blogs, gathered signatures for online petitions and created a movement behind this issue. Men and women, young and old, who stood up, spoke out and gave us the strength to carry on this fight. Not one of them had to be involved, but each choose to become involved for one reason and one reason alone: Because they love their country. They remind us that the "silent encroachments of those in power" Madison spoke of can, in fact, be heard, if only we listen.
Today, the Democratic-led Senate ignored those protests, acted to protect the single most flagrant act of Bush lawbreaking of the last seven years, eviscerated the core Fourth Amendment prohibition of surveillance without warrants, and cemented the proposition that the rule of law does not apply to the Washington Establishment.
* * * * *
I was on the Brian Lehrer Show this morning debating the FISA bill with former Clinton National Security Advisor Nancy Soderberg (who favors the bill). Because of some technical difficulties, I wasn't on the show until roughly 7:30 in. That debate can be heard here. Tomorrow, at 10:00 a.m. EST, I'll be on NPR's On Point to discuss Obama and the FISA vote. That can be heard here.
© 2008 Salon.com
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249 Comments so far
Show AllThank you Senator Feingold for trying!
Too bad the rest of the Congress is so submissive to the administration and willing to throw out the constitution.
My parents told me when I was in my teens something regarding my responsibility that has stuck with me ever since.
"Ignorance of the law is NO excuse!"
In other words – one cannot legally use the excuse that they did not know what they were doing was illegal to escape liability for breaking the law.
Yet - this is exactly what the telecom industry is claiming as they attempt to avoid lawsuits stemming from their participation in spying on American citizens.
I wonder – why is it that large corporations can claim ignorance of a law to avoid responsibility yet ordinary Americans cannot?
If the present FISA bill is voted into effect – giving telecom companies the immunity they are seeking – what will stop every person, organization or corporation from claiming ignorance of the laws they broke and thereby making the claim they are not subject to criminal offenses or lawsuits?
NOTHING!
Since our Congress has seen fit to enact this law – the present law Ignorantia juris non excusat or Ignorantia legis neminem excusat - Latin for ignorance of the law does not excuse" or "ignorance of the law excuses no one" - is now defunct.
Prepare yourself for the use ignorance of the law as an excuse by every person, organization or corporation in the future.
I just went over to the Obama site to leave a message calling him the traitor that he now is... Guess what? They have REMOVED the comment box that was available a few weeks ago.
Guess they don't care what WE THE PEOPLE think anymore, since he's now the heir apparent.
THESE PEOPLE CONTINUE TO BE A DISGRACE!!!!!!!!
Thank God November is getting closer.
Look folks I'm pissed off about Obama and the senate's vote on FISA as much as anyone. Even more so because I'm one of those many people who actually know what the 4th admenment is. Still in spite of all of this I'm still going to vote for him. Why?
Mostly because out of all of the crap out their he's the best of the 'bunch'-and that's not saying much. And right now the first thing one must do is to stop the damage. And putting Obama in office, AND KEEPING McCAIN OUT! As 'distasteful' as it may be to some is our best choice to do that. Then we can work on fixing the damage afterwards.
And one of the first things is to vote in enough hardnose, but pragmatic progressive canadates, be they dems, indies, or repugs (yes folks, before the right wing forced them out progressive repugs did-and I think still do exist) to replace the blue dog dems, and right wing repugs that got us into this mess. And to force/keep Obama to away from the center/center-right and more towards a progressive path. All of the while keeping on him to 'fix' all of the Bushco 'crap'. Including this FISA thing.
So yeah I'm still going to vote for Obama. But thanks to his FISA vote today my vote is ALL he will get as after today longer will any support, funding or backing from me. And he has convinced me to leave the party and become an progressive independent after the elections. And start working to put in those progressive congressperson's and senators that I mentioned. Because our lack of them is the reason why stinky FISA mod got thru in the first place, Because if we don't start doing so then the US deserves the fascist police state it's slowly becoming.
Vote for a third party...make it viral...send it out to everyone on your address list. TIME TO FIGHT BACK...WAY PAST TIME!!
It is hight time that the people make use of their power and, without any hesitation reject the RepublicRatic two-headed monster and start building a People's Movement in their neighborhood, city, county and the national level.
There are many very important issues of Peace & Justice, demilitarization, single payer universal health care, public education, restoration of our constitutional rights, environmental protection and renewable energy, livable wages, physical infrustructure maintenance and renewal, and many many more. A movement can be created around issues such as these which is what the people realy want, but which are OFF THE TABLE of the DemoRATS and the RePUGS.
Twenty-eight Democratic Senators voted no. That is close to 60% of them.
An ideal VP for Obama is Lieberman who is a pro in slipperyness.
The immunization of the telecoms is really a red herring. The new law should have been rejected because it emasculated the so-called 72 hour grace period by extending it, in essence, to four months. From August through October any President can now tap his "political enemies" by challenging every no from the FISA court. Obama, if elected, may need that in 2012 because it is far from certain that he will be re-elected for a second term.
Glenn Greenwald rocks as usual!
Bushrod July 9th, 2008 5:46 pm writes: he does not primarily desire vengeance against the Telecoms as perhaps, most of us do. So let's consider his position.
-this has nothing to do wih vengeance, it has to do with the Constitution and the rule of law.
practical but shocking. we are abandoned. pop goes the obama bubble. this may just get McCain elected. it sure makes his vp choice important. the r's can't clean up after w, so we are undone, along with all enthusiasm for his oratory. hrc was correct, there's no substance to him. he's capitulated to the projected fear he is weak on national defense, and he'll just kowtow to the imperialists: a whore (my appologies to sex workers, i don't know another word for it). he just lost the election by being gutless. he doesn't trust the value of our heretofore trust. he'd rather satisfy the false issue raised by the doom-sayers, so he can have their vote, but not mine.
poopdeck July 9th, 2008 5:28 pm
Twenty-eight Democratic Senators voted no. That is close to 60% of them.
-well yea, they knew it was safe to vote against it because it going to pass!
bobpomeroy July 9th, 2008 5:33 pm
"...he just lost the election by being gutless..."
-I think he seem like an unprincipled opportunist and I agree McCain may now win!
It's time to move beyond our anger and......nah, LET'S VENT BIG TIME!!!
Roll Call and the Fourth Amendment:
Here is the Roll Call link:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00168
Remember the 69 who betrayed the Fourth Amendment.
Remember the 28 who upheld the Fourth Amendment.
Here is the Fourth Amendment:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
It is still not too late, but it is getting closer . . .
Not surprised at all, Obama is a liar and scared of losing corporate money. Ralph Nader needs ten percent support to get into Google's debate and knock Obama off.
It's kind of useless to come to the position of most of the above commentators.
To be clear: I think Senators Dodd, and Feingold are heroes, and I've given money to the latter.
However, there are two sides to the vote. I listened to Jay Rockefeller's reasoned explanation as to why he was for it (without amendments) and it was that he was on it now. The lack of previous oversight is over.
Not bad, I thought.
Kit Bond kept repeating if we (congress) want to press charges against the administration, nothing in this FISA bill prevents it. It does prevent charging the Telecoms.
Obama is a conciliator; unlike the above expressions of frustration, he does not primarily desire vengeance against the Telecoms as perhaps, most of us do. So let's consider his position.
I don't think, or feel the passage of this FISA bill is more than a bump.
Ralph Nader it is.
Quit appologizing for Obama, he is so full of shit.
I'm doing a lot of things to get 'our people' elected. The key is that I realized some time ago that Obama and the Democrats are not 'our people'. They are against us. Isn't that clear by now? A win for the Democrats is not a win for us. And when we 'win', it probably won't be a win for the Democrats.
I'm just so damn depressed over this right now. Anyone want to go get a beer?
It's too bad those who donated to O-crap-a's campaign can't ask for a refund because of breach of contract...an appropriate accusation for sure. I imagine a political website on the order of DontContribute.com, or StopAllPoliticalContributions.com, would get millions of hits. One thing I know for sure is neither branch of our one party system will ever get a contribution from me, and I'll tell the myriad of friends I know to do the same. Imagine if some hacker figured a way to drain both campaigns' bank accounts the turmoil it would cause. I am not that skilled, unfortunately; any takers?
The whole bit about 'criminal' charges against the telecoms still being available is a total red herrring. Its designed to distract people and confuse them.
Who's going to file such charges? We know the Republicans won't. They clearly put loyalty to their party above loyalty to the country and the constitution ages ago.
And, we know the Democrats won't either. Heck, they've had the majority of the Congress since this was announced. Have the Democrats ...
a) moved aggressively with criminal prosecutions against the lawbreakers?
or
b) moved to help cover up their crimes and provide retroactive immunity to the lawbreakers?
We know the Democrats answer is B. We've seen it in their actions. So, don't anyone sit around and dream about the Democrats filing charges against the telecoms. It ain't happened yet, and it ain't gonna happen.
The only way this would be applicable would be if we elect a Green majority to Congress and a new President who's not corporate-bought-and-owned.
Otherwise, civil suits were the only thing going on and the Democrats in Congress just moved aggressively to kill those and stop them from proceeding.
And I'm sure people like Rockefeller and Bond could make pretty speeches about how we just have to have this or its the end of freedom and we'll all die from terrorists tomorrow. They pay good money to speechwriters to write that crap. The key is to watch actions and not listen to the words. And the actions they just took are very plain and clear in their meaning.
I'm going to sleep much better tonight knowing that my government along with the benevolent corporations are looking out for my safety and well being. This kind of legislation protects all of us from the evils that lurk hidden unbeknown. We are not safe unless the government is allowed to monitor our conversations and activities. We are a danger to ourselves and for our own safety must be monitored. Now we can rest much easier thanks to our all powerful, all knowing, and compassionate leaders.
This is a great day. Thank you Mr President, Congress, and all those Corporate leaders who bring us such bountiful blessings.
This did some very important things.
First, it established the precedent that the President can now make law on his own. All the stuff you learned in school about 'how a bill becomes law' pretty much just went out the window.
This makes it clear that if a President doesn't like a law, he is free to just ignore it. No need to go through all of those messy democratic details of getting people to agree to change the law. The President can now cite this as a precedent anytime he decides he wants to change the law.
Second, it just established the precedent that if the President asks people outside his administration to break the law, he can do so. All he has to do is to say that he wants it. Years ago we impeached President Nixon for gross abuse of power in exactly this area. Nixon's famous quote was 'if the President does it, then its legal'. The Congress just ratified that principle.
Picture for instance a meeting between government officials and the officials of some company that's being asked to do something that violates the laws passed by Congress and officially signed by the President. When the lawyers of the company point out to the government officials that what they are asking is illegal, you can bet that this case will be cited as precedent.
Beyond that we have the shredding of the fourth amendment with regard to Americans being secure from unwarranted searches. Again, you can count on this being cited as precedent for future encroachments on our rights. For instance, similar broad collection of all communication traffic in the national interest of stopping child pornography wouldn't surprise me a bit.
The telecom immunity was only a small bit of this. And it is very, very telling that all along the Democrats in Congress were happy to go along with all of this without a whimper. The only objection they made was to the telecom immunity.
And if I had to place a small wager, I'd bet that this objection to telecom immunity that the Democrats mounted was really just a scheme to shake down the telecoms for more bribes, uh contributions, before passing this.
With this one vote, Senator Obama stands revealed as just another bullshitting politician whose word is worthless, who cannot be trusted, who is willing to abandon the rule of law.
Great choice our two party system has given us. Two lying, sleazy, bottom of the barrel pols who would sell their mothers to get into the White House.
I thought Obama was something special, something different, somebody actually worth voting for.
Piss on the both of them.
I talk about voting as a path towards change because that is the one legal and relatively risk-free option available to all of us to create change.
It doesn't mean I wouldn't be supportive of other ideas.
Obama! Obama! Obama!...oh, wait.... Errr....
elmysterio July 9th, 2008 4:35 pm -- 'ThinkForYourself: I support your idea of flooding the NSA with bogus hits.… Something like "Bomb, Kill, Assassinate, terrorist, attack, murder, bush, plot" etc…
That could be a bit risky. It's much easier just to send out large numbers of doubly encrypted messages that, when intercepted and decrypted, turn out to contain nothing but pure gobbledegook. That way you keep them much busier than with just plain text key words.
Hmmmm, Republican Cheney has just been exposed for forcing the DELETION of EPA evidence of Global Warming and greenhous gases!
Democrat Al Gore got his Nobel Prize FOR HIS WORK ON GLOBAL WARMING!
Okay, I'm going slow here; Can. Anybody. Choose. The.
Better. Politician?
(lesser evil?, call it that since you all find that blade so effective.)
P.S; Has Nader sold his stock in Raytheon yet, or Wal-Mart, or HALLIBURTON?
Is he still on FOX NEWS one-sidedly attacking the Democrats?
Read the Salon.com Feb 08 article about Ralph if anyone thinks he walks on water, Salon asks if he's "running this year to help his friend John McCain?"
Things are more complex than Dem's evil, real progressives third party. (but liberals doing so sure DOES makes the Republicans hap-py!)
Peace. Piece by Piece.
And in another symbolic event, Senator Ted Kennedy, who is recovering from surgery on a cancerous brain tumor, leaves his hospital bed to make a trip to Capitol Hill against his family and doctor's wishes to vote to end a filibuster by the Republicans on a crucial Medicare bill.
Why should this come as a shock? Obama was *never* a progressive. He's Corporate America's fair-haired boy.
Sammy Glick with a stump speech.
Quoting from the article by Bill Van Auken entitled, "Obama's Swing to Right Sparks Warnings From 'Left Backers'" --
"In the space of barely a week, the candidate (Obama) declared his support for a bill that he will vote for this week legalizing the Bush administration's massive domestic wiretapping program and giving retroactive immunity to the telecom companies that facilitated it; opposed a decision by the US Supreme Court opposing the extension of the death penalty to crimes other than homicide and appealed to the Christian right with a pledge to double funding for "faith-based" programs.
"This embrace of positions associated with the Republican right followed his slavish declaration of support for right-wing Zionism at last month's conference of the pro-Israel lobbying group AIPAC and a series of bellicose statements regarding Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan.
"Finally, on July 3, the candidate held a news conference that many cast as a retreat from his campaign pledge to withdraw US combat troops from Iraq in 16 months after entering the White House. Obama stressed that 'the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability,' while insisting that he would 'continue to refine my policies' based on information he receives from 'our commanders on the ground.' ...
"This position reflects a growing consensus within America's ruling establishment that, whatever the divisions over the 'mistake' of launching the war in the first place, the predatory venture must be made to succeed in the end, furthering 'US interests,' specifically domination over the strategic energy resources of Iraq.
"However, for many of those who, over the course of the more than year-and-a-half-long campaign for the Democratic nomination, portrayed Obama's candidacy as a fundamental change in American politics, the candidate's new 'sensible' approach has apparently come as a shock. ...
"Among the left liberals who have assiduously promoted illusions in Obama, there are those who are deluding themselves and those who work quite consciously to deceive others. ...
"Nothing could more clearly define the politics of cynical opportunism that characterizes the great majority of the so-called left in America. Worshipers of the accomplished fact, they are mesmerized by the supposed immutability of the two-party system and seek to paint the Democratic Party as some vehicle for effecting progressive social change, despite decades of evidence to the contrary. ...
"(Obama's) presidential candidacy has been engineered by a section of the political establishment that sees it as an ideal means of putting a new face on discredited American imperialism and carrying out real but quite limited adjustments in American policy after eight years of the Bush administration. His brief though meteoric political career represents for these forces an empty vessel into which policies are being poured that have nothing to do with peace. ...
"When the candidate (Obama) insists that he has not shifted on Iraq, he is essentially correct. His promise to 'end the war' always envisioned the continuation of the US occupation and the pursuit of the war's original predatory aims. His essential difference with McCain is over whether more troops should be shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan to escalate the US war there and potentially extend it into Pakistan.
"As for domestic policy, the money that has poured into his campaign coffers from Wall Street, ***nearly twice the amount donated to his Republican rival John McCain,*** is based on the clear understanding that an Obama administration will faithfully serve America's financial oligarchy. (Asterisks added.)
"If the candidate is more openly promoting his right-wing agenda now, it is not in interests of gaining votes. Over two-thirds of the American people want an end to the war and the overwhelming majority is hostile to the Bush administration; he does not have to appeal to some vast right-wing constituency. On the contrary, Obama is making his pitch to the ruling elite, attempting to cast himself as 'presidential,' i.e., someone who is prepared to do whatever it takes to defend the interests of American capitalism, both at home and abroad."
Click here for the entire article -- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/jul2008/obam-j09.shtml
If the US government bombs Iran, Iran will be the 21st country the US has bombed since the end of World War Two.
And so the question, by its very nature, reeks of obscenity; that is to say -- What other country has bombed so many countries in a similar period of time?
Can you imagine what the US reaction would have been had the Soviet Union bombed as many countries. Or China. Or if twenty 9/11s had occured in the US over the same period of time.
Notice, too, that the countries the US ruling class bombs are, invariably, third world countries -- with armies that are *dwarfed* in comparison to US military might.
And the US ruling class, via its mainstream media outlets, has the vile, the obscene audacity to talk about "outrageous, aggressive" behavior by Iran!
And where, pray tell, is that savior of the progressive community, "Saint Slick" -- err, I mean, Barack Obama?
Obama, like the rest of the Democratic Party mainstream, is right on board as far as an invasion of Iran is concerned. Commondream readers will remember that several months ago the Senate -- Democrats as well as Republicans -- indicated to Bush that if he goes ahead and invades Iran they won't interfere. … The Senate to Bush: "Invade Iran if you want to, we won't make a peep."
So, is it any wonder the Democrats have taken impeachment "off the table." Of course they have; and the reason is simple. The Democratic Party, in their ongoing criminal complicity, are as guilty as the Republicans in prosecuting an unjust, illegal, immoral war in Iraq ... an unjust, illegal and immoral war in Afghanistan ... and perhaps yet a *third* unjust, illegal, immoral war in Iran.
Why do you think Bush withdrew the US from the ICC, the International Criminal Court. He and his Republican henchmen -- as well as his Democratic enablers -- know full well that the ICC would nail them in a heartbeat.
The US judges at Nuremberg were quite clear as to what the Nazis' basic, underlying crime was -- the crime from which all other Nazi crimes emanated -- and that crime was the unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of another country.
IN SHORT: THOSE WHO VOTED FOR THE WAR IN IRAQ WOULD BE FOUND GUILTY BY THE VERY STANDARDS ESTABLISHED BY THE US JUDGES AT NUREMBERG IN 1945.
Of course, needless to say, this 800-pound gorilla sitting in the middle of the room --that is to say, the Democratic Party as well as mainstream media's complicity as regards the War in Iraq and the proposed war with Iran -- is something that Senator Obama will assiduously and obediently ignore.
Mind you, he's been well paid by Corporate America to respect their code of ... omerta.
Saint Obama will continue to act as if he's literally "descended from the skies," here to -- hallelujah – save us all! I mean, after all, once a con works why give it up?
(As Nelson Algren once put it: "However do senators get so close to God?")
Obama's cynical and shameless move to the right since he's gotten the nomination will, if he's elected, only get worse. In short, the Democratic leadership, via their presidential nominee, has *yet again* played the liberals in America for the suckers they most certainly are. (Talk about enablers!)
So when you go to the polls, loyal liberals, and pull the lever for Obama, keep in mind that should he win, he will undoubtedly continue to pursue America's "imperial ambitions" -- brutal and mass murdering as those imperial ambitions have been in the past and will continue to be in the future.
Or, put another way: when the dead bodies continue to pile up, just remember the misery, the carnage and the evil *you* voted for.
NOTE: After World War II was over and the concentration camps were liberated, Einsenhower arranged for busloads of German civilians -- housewives, retirees, factory workers, non-military individuals from all walks of life -- to be bused out to Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Treblinka, all the concentrations camps -- so that the average German, the "good German," could see up-close-and-personal precisely what their support for German imperialism produced.
... Where are the buses now?
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
-Thomas Jefferson
PRETENSE EXPOSED - Congress is nothing but a blood-sucking government entity controlled by big business and a couple of draft-dodgers in the White House.
This government is a sham! Cythia McKinney is getting my vote!
The worst part is that Obama taught constitutional law for 10 years. He knows this is unconstitutional, so he has no excuse.
Elmysterio (July 9th, 2008 4:30 pm) said: "What I find odd is that while Obama supported the bill, Hillary voted against it. What I'm wondering is if she voted against it because:
a) She knew it would pass with or without her vote.
b) To show the 'progressive' democrats that Obama was a bad choice and they "should" have voted for her.
c) To make Obama look bad (Which he's doing a good job of on his own)."
- elmysterio, I had the same thought.
Acancerian625 (July 9th, 2008 5:04 pm), following up on your point: "Fool me once, shame on you… fool me twice, shame on me… and I will not let myself be fooled."
- What comes to mind is the famous Dave Bromberg song - it seems so appropriate here:
"I'll be Goddamn, 6 feet under ground, dead in my grave, buried and long forgot
I'll be so long gone and forgot that my flesh will have turned and returned to the nutrients and elements and the molecules from which it originated
I mean to say that the genus and species of worms that used to crawl in and out of the sockets of my eyelid holes will vanish from the face of the earth
I need to say I'll see the earth leave its orbit
I'll wear the rings of Saturn for a ring around my little pinky
I'll let your sister marry a Venutian
I will see you dead
I'll see your lover dead
I'll see his lover dead
I'll see his lover dead
I'll see his lover dead
I'll see that f----- dead
I'll see everyone you ever knew, loved, touched, stood next to, heard of, smelt, felt, dreamed about in your life or any of your descendant's lives -- down to the 168th person
Roasted and tortured in hell
For 1 billion trillion years
16 eternity's
27 forevers
11 thousand years after that BEFORE I WILL BE YOUR FOOL [again]!"
- Vote Cynthia McKinney '08.
Get a grip, folx.
Sure, I'm disappointed. But the real-world consequences of today's vote are minimal. The worst abuses had already occurred - and w/ only 6 months left of Bush/Cheney. This FISA version sunsets in 2012; and with criminal liability for gov't/telecom officials still in place. Ultimate jail sentences were unlikely w/ or w/o today's whimpfest. But such facilitates discovery.
Security/comfort driven electorate-at-large is anything but Jeffersonian in these matters. This was a cheap vote for Obama to appear not-so-leftist - and help ensure a new POTUS and Senate in '08 that can better frame/modify security "vs" privacy.
Alas, Lt. Calley was right - the only way to save this country now is to destroy it.
I can think of no better way to completely destroy America than to vote Republican. A President McCain should certainly cause a Red/Blue civil war.
Lisapeace, when you drive, do you fill your vehicle with gas that is somehow miraculously NOT tainted with the blood of corporate third world atrocities? Is every stitch of fiber in your clothing NOT from a corporate sweat house nor made by slave labor, (even most "made in US" clothing gets their fabric from China). Are you positive that the bank you do business with, even if it's a small account from which you draw cash from an ATM, does NOT have investments in any of the corporations you accuse Nader of investing in? The products in your home are all made from the most pure and politically correct materials?, no lumber, no steel, no copper, no fiberglass, no toxic plywood? How is it that you seem to miraculously participate in a pristine environment untainted by any nasty corporate contamination.
Nader not only attacks democrats, if you're really listening, but he does attack them for justified reasons. Democrats put up the most barriers to his third party attempts to get on state ballads, not to mention their despicable complicity in furthering the war machine, destroying Constitutional rights, and in enabling corporate domination.
Ha, ha, ha.
You jerks think Obama or the Democratic party is on your side and the constitution.
Well, Obama'a vote should convince you that he is just more of the same ruling elite, take your money, take your life party, but you are asleep.
Vote Nader, at least he is not a phony or party to the ruling elite.
Here is an update of Greenwald's original Salon version of this article:
>>UPDATE: The ACLU announced today that it will challenge this bill in court as soon as it is passed on the ground that its warrantless eavesdropping provisions violate the Fourth Amendment:
In advance of the president's signature, the ACLU announced its plan to challenge the new law in court.
"This fight is not over. We intend to challenge this bill as soon as President Bush signs it into law," said Jameel Jaffer, Director of the ACLU National Security Project. "The bill allows the warrantless and dragnet surveillance of Americans' international telephone and email communications. It plainly violates the Fourth Amendment."
EFF, the other non-profit organization behind the telecom lawsuits, announced the same, emphasizing the unconstitutionality of the grant of immunity. That challenge will likely be on the ground that by resolving these pending lawsuits in favor of the telecoms, Congress has usurped the judicial function -- one which the Constitution, in Article III, assigns to the courts, not to Congress or the President ("The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish").
The effort to target those responsible for this travesty is here.">>
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/09/fisa_vote/
A previous poster wrote:
"This was a free vote for Obama to appear not-so-leftist ..."
(NOTE: It's at times like this that words very nearly fail me.)
Let's cogitate on that little gem one mo' time --
"This was a free vote for Obama to
*appear* not-so-leftist ..." (Asterisks added.)
How about an entire political career not of appearing but of ***BEING*** not-so-leftist.
In fact of not being a leftist at all.
See the following for proof -- http://www.counterpunch.org/gonzalez02292008.html
Obama lost my vote. Thank you N J senators for trying.
Thankfully one of my senators, Durbin, showed some conscience. The other one ... not so much. I wouldn't vote for his re-election in the senate, let alone for the presidency.
Perhaps Ill send Nader another donation on top of it.
Here are the 28 Senators who voted NAY. I called every one today to thank them.
Daniel Akaka (D-HI) 202-224-6361
Joe Biden (D-DE) 202-224-5042
Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) 202-224-5521
Barbara Boxer (D-CA) 202-224-3553
Sherrod Brown (D-OH) 202-224-2315
Robert Byrd (D-WV) 202-224-3954
Maria Cantwell (D-WA) 202-224-3441
Benjamin Cardin (D-MD) 202-224-4524
Hillary Clinton (D-NY) 202-224-4451
Chris Dodd (D-CT) 202-224-2823
Byron Dorgan (D-ND) 202-224-2551
Dick Durbin (D-IL) 202-224-2152
Russ Feingold (D-WI) 202-224-5323
Tom Harkin (D-IA) 202-224-3254
John Kerry (D-MA) 202-224-2742
Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) 202-224-3244
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)202-224-3224
Patrick Leahy (D-VT) 202-224-4242
Carl Levin (D-MI) 202-224-6221
Robert Menendez (D-NJ) 202-224-4744
Patty Murray (D-WA) 202-224-2621
Jack Reed (D-RI) 202-224-4642
Harry Reid (D-NV) 202-224-3542
Bernie Sanders (I-VT) 202-224-5141
Chuck Schumer (D-NY) 202-224-6542
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) 202-224-4822
Jon Tester (D-MT) 202-224-2644
Ron Wyden (D-OR) 202-224-5244
All Senators can be reached through the Capital Switchboard: 202-224-3121
Feinstein's traitorous vote was no surprise given her family's (read:husband's) fortune lies in defense contracts oked by Bush.
Obama's vote should NOT have been a surprise to anyone with half-a-brain. His hiring of Barnett(his ex-Bush corporate handler) was just one of the hints. The same people(read:corporate fascists) who controlled the Clintons and the Bushes are now firmly in control of Obama's future.
Think about it - now, I may join Avry in despair.
No citizen is safe now. With a little clout and/or money, anyone will now be able to spy on your personal and business communications with the right connections.
This isn't about "national security"' this is about THEIR security. Spying on us for their "business & political associates".
G-damn you, you S.O.B.s!
Vote Nader and put an end to this s**t (and to them)
ThinkForYourself wrote, "Ihave a crazy idea, tell me what you think...."
I would love to find a web site like oh, I don't know, terrorists for fiscal responsibility. A place for dangerous people to chat about what they are planning. Like meeting at Martha's tonight to plan for the farmers market. Or we will also be discussing the flower beds at the corner of main. Since there are no more secrets to keep we could surrender our plans in the open. Why waste tax dollars farming the net when all of the plots are on one site. The paperwork could be reduced, saving trees to sequester carbon. It would be a win win for the whole earth!
Obama says: "So? What you going to do about it?. Hah ha, you got no choice. Change? In your face."
Don't vote for anyone who supports wars. Clean up America and shut down the AIPAC today
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."
geez.....
jumperpin .... the problem is that you believe the Democratic myth that personalizes all problems upon Bush\Cheney.
If Obama is elected, he will use the capability to spy on Americans exactly like Bush\Cheney.
And you seem to know nothing about the bills contents or effects. There was never a threat that the civil lawsuits filed by Americans who's rights have been violated leading to jail time for Bush\Cheney. In fact, if I remember correctly, the Democrats in Congress had already done there traitor bit last year to give them all retroactive immunity for the crimes they've committed in doing this.
No, the part about telecom immunity was about quashing the civil lawsuits that have been filed against the telecoms that collaborated with Bush's administration in acting illegally. And it was those lawsuits that were the only thing going that would possibly have revealed more information about what's was really going on. For instance, all we have right now is the Administrations word (and we know what that's worth) that the only targets were 'terrorists'. But was the administration doing other spying on political opponents? Who knows? We might have known from these lawsuits except that the Democrats just stepped in to make sure we won't.
If the Democrats were doing their constitutional job and conducting rigorous investigations into this in congressional hearings, then the civil lawsuits wouldn't be neccessary. But the Democratic leadership had already acted to protect Bush and his minions from any problems there by making sure there were no aggressive hearings looking into it. And like I said, they gladly all gave Bush his immunity before.
And that's ignoring the fact that this bill creates a sudden new expansion in the powers of the President to spy on Americans without going to any court to get a warrant.
And that doesn't mention the overall implications of setting the precedent that the President can now apparently decide what is and isn't the law without paying any attention to what the Congress has or hasn't passed.
Its amazing the way the Democratic sheeple try to explain away every single awful thing that the Democrats do time after time. If this was an isolated incident, I might be more tempted to give your points some weight. But this is not an isolated incident. Its just another of a very long line of incidents where the Democrats side with Bush and against us.
Don't pay too much attention to who voted No.
Once the Dem leadership had the votes for passage, they'd let a certain number of Senators vote no on this to look good. That doesn't mean that if the vote had been very close that they wouldn't have voted yes.
Sen. Reid's name just jumps off that list for hypocracy. As Senate leader, this thing probably never comes up for a vote if he doesn't support it. And he certainly did nothing to rally his caucus against it. So now he gets credit for a symbolic NO vote cast after he's worked hard to make it pass? What bull!
And, you are largely looking at the wrong vote. The vote on cloture was the real chance, slim as it was, to stop this. That's the more important vote. And its telling that Reid voted with the Republicans on that one ... just like Obama.
"This was a cheap vote for Obama to appear not-so-leftist - and help ensure a new POTUS and Senate in '08 that can better frame/modify security "vs" privacy."
Explain this outside of the inside the beltway speak. What is the leftist position on this, who is he reassuring (the elite media, economic elites and DC politicians or the general public) and how does Obama avoid this by voting as he did? Does this affect the 4th Amendment in your mind? If so, what REAL threat (not the manufactured threats the governments pulls out to justify any actions it can't with straight ahead logic on its own) justifies doing so?
I find the direction this country is going in very interesting, in a train wreck kind of way. We aren't moving towards, for instance, universal healthcare or a reversal of the failed "free trade" policies, we are ALWAYS moving in a more regressive and authoritarian direction (which never happens overnight) and every time another piece is chipped away someone comes in and points out how small each individual change supposedly is. Never do we chip away at corporate power or the democracy gap, where these elected crooks vote against popular will again and again, we're always giving more and more away and the compromise is between the authoritarian incrementalism and the absolute worse scenario.
Let's see what the Obama apologists have to say. Nothing much, I guess, except for obediently repeating what their masters tell them to say.
Oh American Sheeple in progressive coat....