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9/11 Third Tower Mystery 'Solved'?
WASHINGTON - The final mystery of 9/11 will soon be solved, according to US experts investigating the collapse of the third tower at the World Trade Center.
The 47-storey third tower, known as Tower Seven, collapsed seven hours after the twin towers.
Investigators are expected to say ordinary fires on several different floors caused the collapse.
Conspiracy theorists have argued that the third tower was brought down in a controlled demolition.
Unlike the twin towers, Tower Seven was not hit by a plane.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology, based near Washington DC, is expected to conclude in its long-awaited report this month that ordinary fires caused the building to collapse.
That would make it the first and only steel skyscraper in the world to collapse because of fire.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology's lead investigator, Dr Shyam Sunder, spoke to BBC Two's "The Conspiracy Files":
"Our working hypothesis now actually suggests that it was normal building fires that were growing and spreading throughout the multiple floors that may have caused the ultimate collapse of the buildings."
'Smoking gun'
However, a group of architects, engineers and scientists say the official explanation that fires caused the collapse is impossible. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth argue there must have been a controlled demolition.
The founder of the group, Richard Gage, says the collapse of the third tower is an obvious example of a controlled demolition using explosives.
"Building Seven is the smoking gun of 9/11... A sixth grader can look at this building falling at virtually freefall speed, symmetrically and smoothly, and see that it is not a natural process.
"Buildings that fall in natural processes fall to the path of least resistance", says Gage, "they don't go straight down through themselves."
Conspiracy theories
There are a number of facts that have encouraged conspiracy theories about Tower Seven.
- Although its collapse potentially made architectural history, all of the thousands of tonnes of steel from the skyscraper were taken away to be melted down.
- The third tower was occupied by the Secret Service, the CIA, the Department of Defence and the Office of Emergency Management, which would co-ordinate any response to a disaster or a terrorist attack.
- The destruction of the third tower was never mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report. The first official inquiry into Tower Seven by the Federal Emergency Management Agency was unable to be definitive about what caused its collapse.
- In May 2002 FEMA concluded that the building collapsed because intense fires had burned for hours, fed by thousands of gallons of diesel stored in the building. But it said this had "only a low probability of occurrence" and more work was needed.
But now nearly seven years after 9/11 the definitive official explanation of what happened to Tower Seven is finally about to be published in America.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology has spent more than two years investigating Tower Seven but lead investigator Dr Shyam Sunder rejects criticism that it has been slow.
The collapse of Tower 7
"We've been at this for a little over two years and doing a two or two and a half year investigation is not at all unusual. That's the same kind of time frame that takes place when we do aeroplane crash investigations, it takes a few years."
With no steel from Tower 7 to study, investigators have instead made four extremely complex computer models worked out to the finest detail. They're confident their approach can now provide the answers. Dr Sunder says the investigation is moving as fast as possible.
"It's a very complex problem. It requires a level of fidelity in the modelling and rigour in the analysis that has never been done before."
Other skyscrapers haven't fully collapsed before because of fire. But NIST argues that what happened on 9/11 was unique.
Steel structure weakened
It says Tower Seven had an unusual design, built over an electricity substation and a subway; there were many fires that burnt for hours; and crucially, fire fighters could not fight the fires in Tower 7, because they didn't have enough water and focused on saving lives.
Investigators have focused on the east side where the long floor spans were under most stress.
They think fires burnt long enough to weaken and break many of the connections that held the steel structure together.
Most susceptible were the thinner floor beams which required less fireproofing, and the connections between the beams and the columns. As they heated up the connections failed and the beams sagged and failed, investigators say.
The collapse of the first of the Twin Towers does not seem to have caused any serious damage to Tower Seven, but the second collapse of the 1,368ft (417m) North Tower threw debris at Tower Seven, just 350ft (106m) away.
Tower Seven came down at 5.21pm. Until now most of the photographs have been of the three sides of the building that did not show much obvious physical damage. Now new photos of the south side of the building, which crucially faced the North Tower, show that whole side damaged and engulfed in smoke.
© 2008 BBC



308 Comments so far
Show Allcan someone enlighten me on how fires got started in the building on that dat???? Why do I even have to ask this question???
Tall builings in Manhattan are built with the possibility of collapse in mind. Look over the blueprints of the buildings and how they were constructed. The twin towers were built so that if a small plane hit one of them, a 'panel' of the affected area would fall off, sparing the rest of the building from the force of the shock. I'm guessing too many experts overlook *why* anyone would engineer a skyscraper to fall straight down as opposed to falling over.
I am not a conspiracy theorist, nor have I followed this Tower Seven incident very closely, but I have to say that the conclusion of The National Institute of Standards and Technology strikes me as preposterous.
What a crock!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yx9NRX37SM
The "official" report will be Total Rubbish. Without the steel from All the buildings... NO Report will be worth Squat. Just more Bought-and-Paid-for Lying Propaganda. Another bush Crime Family staple.
and- Yes... Just Exactly how did SO MANY fires start on them low floors...?
Quite simply..a bunch of lying SOBs...
Controlled demolitions provide distinctive clouds of pulverized concrete. Since when does concrete become pulverized by fuel fires, or a building collapse caused by stress point failures?
If I recall correctly, there was an emergency generator and a diesel fuel supply on one of the upper floors. This contributed to the blaze.
I also recall comments about how the New York city fire laws and inspectors were put off by the Feds, to enable this generator and fuel to be placed in such a precarious location.
First of all, let's stop using the term "conspiracy theorists." It's an ad hominem argument, meaning it uses emotion to sway the outcome. As the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth argue, all three building were collapsed by explosives. All other government findings are impossible. The twin towers were not only made to withstand an airplane collision, but the temperature of burning jet fuel does not come close to weakening steel. There is also chemical evidence that the buildings were imploded (thermite, used for cutting steel for demolitions, was found at the base of the buildings) and physical evidence that after implosion the building was exploded (many of the buildings materials were forcefully embeded in surrounding building as far as a block away). So, those arguing that the buildings collapse was planned, and that such actions were part of a larger plan (the evidence for which is equally voluminous and detailed) are not conspiracy theorists. If there is any conspiracy in this, it is on the part of the perpetrators, who used and continue to use terrorists (whom they fund and train) to perform acts that allow the New World Order (David Rockefeller's and George H.W. Bush's term) to gut the constitution and funnel US tax dollars into their own pockets and that of their friends and supporters.
Thank you Tarry_Faster for the above post on "Loose Change: Final Cut".
Here's my best response to the NIST report on the collapse of Building Seven on 9/11:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2EGTETc5oFU
Sorry, but that was the best example of laughter I could dig up.
NIST is a joke.
If one person in a position of credibility would speak that the emperor had no clothes with respect to the 9/11 attack, would anything happen? Is part of the swindlers' plan to delay the eventual revelations or investigation by so many years that the perpetrators will be old and feeble?
Why do so many level headed, fact-based people like Noam Chomsky brush it aside as preposterous? Is it so volatile a subject that he fears he would lose credibility on his other views?
True or not, the subject has been succesfully relegated to "crackpots" which scares even people with reasonable doubts from speaking up.
"It's so crazy we might just get away with it."
I'd say the bulk of evidence gathered today would indicate that WTC 7 did not fall as the result of fires. Anyone who's watched Loose Change knows that WTC 7 fell at speeds faster than freefall, an impossibility in the world of physics. In other words, the building fell faster than a bowling ball would if dropped from the top the building.
I'd urge readers to get informed before they assume the government's NIST has done a proper analysis. Part of this investigatory process should involve numerous sources, including photographic and physical evidence. Suspiciously, the latter--steel--was promptly removed from the WTC 7 site, as it was from the Twin Towers. Properly investigated, the steel would show signs if explosions had in fact gone off--why remove the evidence?
Prisonplanet also has a video interview of Barry Jennings, Deputy Director of Emergency Services, New York City Housing Authority. It was released for the first time in June. Jennings explains:
"'I'm just confused about one thing....why World Trade Center 7 went down in the first place - I'm very confused about that - I know what I heard I heard explosions,' said Jennings, adding that the explanation that the explosions were as a result of fuel oil tanks in the building did not add up.
'I'm an old boiler guy, if it was a fuel oil tank it would have been one side of the building,' he stated."
[http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/062308_dead_bodies.htm]
It doesn't add up. NIST can't be telling the truth.
Here are just some of the many links:
http://wtc7.net/
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1261.shtml
Keep trying to upload, but these links are being blocked.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/062508_unusual_event.htm
Now I'm sure I know what Silverstein said when he said "pull it"!.,,,,,,,,,,,.Pull this Silverstein!! You KNOW the truth...may the next building you bring down have you inside of it!
I guess its the whatreallyhappened that is getting blocked.
I can't link there--it's being blocked.
Go there in type in (or google) BBC WTC videos or see the youtube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejjySUVOGKA
The BBC reported WTC7 falling 20 minutes before it did! The video has been pulled off of BBC and some other websites.
I guess the only conclusion that one could draw is that people--in positions of power and authority writing the press release--knew it would collapse before it did. What could be more incriminating? And now we're supposed to accept what the gov't says--a gov't run by the same people who urged a "Pearl harbor-type event" and talked of opportunities that 9/11 provided (Rice, Bush, and Cheney) after it happened?
The 'Loose Change' documentary is a laughable piece of crap. Those kids that made it are classic examples of the dumbing down of americans... appalling lack of reasoning and logic skills.
It does seem clear that none of the three buildings collapsed from natural causes - just don't point anyone with an education and well developed analytical skills to "Loose Change" if you are trying to open their eyes to the likelihood of BushCco complicity in the 911 attacks. It will only harden their minds against any further inquiry and they will dismiss you as a gullible nut.
The audacity of this condescension is breathtaking. What moron do they think will believe this fantasy? The nerve to believe the average American will accept this explanation attests to their monumental naivete or to the sub-basement awareness/intelligence of my fellow citizen. Unfortunately, me thinks it may be both! Orwell had nothing on these clowns. The NIST has reached new depths of unadulterated scientific newsspeak bullshit.
Fire and gravity could not possibly do what is seen on the video of the collapse of WTC 7. The chance of all the structural framework of the building collapsing equally at the same instant so the building could fall within its own footprint from random fires it so low as to make that explanation preposterous.
And when yet another preposterous argument comes from a government sanctioned investigation it cast further suspicion about government involvement in the events of 9/11/2001.
Why have no military officers been disciplined for the failures that day/
We have lost our country.
Fire and gravity could not possibly do what is seen on the video of the collapse of WTC 7. The chance of all the structural framework of the building collapsing equally at the same instant so the building could fall within its own footprint from random fires it so low as to make that explanation preposterous.
And when yet another preposterous argument comes from a government sanctioned investigation it casts further suspicion about government involvement in the events of 9/11/2001.
Why have no military officers been disciplined for the failures that day?
I'd like to thank one of the big nay-sayers here at CD, jakenewton, for putting up a link one fine day to some important missing pieces of this puzzle. WTC7 looked as though the top of some skyscraper had fallen right into it and was sitting in the lobby. And when it fell, it fell all over the bloody place, not gracefully into it's own footprint.
I saw this on the BBC the other day too. They aren't ashamed to admit that they made mistakes, but again the case was made that many people on the ground knew the building couldn't be saved, and that it was going to tumble at any moment.
I don't claim to know exactly what happened that horrible day, but after years of thinking that building 7 was undamaged, and fell vertically, well, I don't think that anymore. Anyone got jakenewton's debunking link handy?
I am no engineer. I'd probably believe whatever the government told me about what caused the bldgs to fall so nicely and neatly. But the behavior the government indulged in immediately after 9/11 is a dead giveaway that something isn't right.
They destroyed the evidence deliberately. Who would do that? Why? They confiscated every film that might have shown a plane crashing into the Pentagon. The plane that went down in Pennsylvania looks like the result of an explosion, not like a 'normal' plane crash. It seems it was actually shot down - but they've lied about it. They found a passport of one of the hijackers intact in the rubble of the twin towers! With planes still headed the wrong way for NY after the first tower was hit, workers in the second tower were told to stay at work! And every system designed to protect us failed utterly. I know they are pretty incompetent, but are ALL of our air traffic controllers and Norad, etc., included in this astounding dumbth?
If I had been the head of state and such disastrous incompetence had contributed to the deaths of 3000 people on my watch, HEADS WOULD ROLL! But no, promotions were handed out instead.
And what a list of coincidences! A relative of Bush was in charge of security at the World Trade Center. The purported mastermind once worked with the CIA. Military men have come forward to say they had Osama in their sites - and were ordered to back off. The first attempt at bombing the Twin Towers was actually aided by an FBI informant, who taught bomb-making 101 to that pack of terrorists, thinking, apparently that the FBI would intervene to stop the incident. But they didn't - and it all came out in the trial. But it has been hardly remarked on in connection with 9/11 - and never in the main stream press. And then Bush thoughtfully got the bin Ladens out of the country, without even a real investigation.
It's just too much to believe. I don't know exactly what happened that morning, but the one story I find ridiculous is the official story.
Gosh, I'm so thankful that such clearly superior intellects like "truenorth" will take the time to explain to simpletons like myself the realities of life... you're analytical prowess is truly astonishing.
Loose Change is a wonderful look at 9/11 that should be broadly recommended. It brings up numerous facts that government experts would never discuss, nor dare to openly admit.
The people who made Loose Change show that young Americans do care, and can do a great deal to make their voices heard. How many older Americans, with more money and established in their careers, would dare say what needs to be said about 9/11? Perhaps the daring nature of making a Loose Change is reserved to the young of this world, who are sufficiently naive as to believe that the facts and evidence can speak for themselves. I draw heart in our next generation if they are willing to challenge the established "facts" of the 9/11 narrative like Loose Change did.
Of course, so many older Americans, who've come to expect the finest post-production available, find Loose Change's amateurish graphix and other issues not to their content. Oh well, factor out the awful accompaniment and look at the facts that it brings up, and you'll see Loose Change is an achievement of great proportions made on a shoestring budget. Until a major studio or film company (one with money) comes up with something slicker, Loose Change will do fine. Don't hold your breath...
Let's be careful before we jump to conclusions. i just went to http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/062508_unusual_event.htm and found out that it is not blocked; it works just fine. I suspect that too many people were trying to see it at the same time.
It is understandable to assume it was blocked; the Bush-Cheney Administrations gives us plenty of reason to assume things like this. But let's be careful so that, as new people read this stuff, they can see that we are serious and careful thinkers--and so they may take us more seriously.
One personal observation.
The second of the two (tower two if I recall) that was hit lower and off center, and was the first to fall, clearly, in many pics and video footage I saw, the top of the building above the damaged floors,initially tilted in the direction of the collsion for a few seconds before the whole "house of cards" failed and it all and went down in a vertical vector. Are conspiracy theorists going to tell me that explosives were loaded right where the off center damage took place, in order for the upper portion of the tower to tip before it fell? I truely believe it was structural damage that caused that collapse.
As far as #1 and #2 collapses, clearly both initiatied where the fires were, and had burned for a good long time . . . who would the explosives have survied the heat at those sited for that amount of time?
#7 is a whole different issue, however. buildings 4,5,6 escape intact even though they are closer to the disaster site than #7 ? Clearly perplexing and suspicious.
I'd sure like to hear by what chain of command decisions the steel from 911 was melted down and reformed into other parts. That's the one thing I've found most troubling in all this. Its either gross incompetence or outright complicity in terrorism, either way heads should have rolled (at the least). Did they? Does anyone know?
Consider this: you can still access steel from the tragedy at Pearl Harbor. Its still there. So, by what miracle of 'government efficiency' did the 911 steel not only get packed up but MELTED DOWN and remade?
This is such amazing bullshit. This will give the Amerikan Nazi propagandists like Hannity and Limbaugh another bullet in their "the 911 conspiracies have been debunked" arsenal, allowing them to dismiss as loony anyone who dares to bring up the subject of 911 truth.
I hope this tactic backfires, and simply wakes up more people to the fact that the official 911 story is the most unbelievable conspiracy theory of all. Someday the truth will be known, and the perpetrators will be punished.
BTW, if Osama bin Laden really did pull off 911, WHY THE HELL hasn't he been captured yet??
yes, there are facts included in "loose change" -- along with far too many instances of conjecture presented as fact. With some heavy editing to get rid of all the loose conjecture falsely presented as compelling evidence, this film could be a decent introduction to get someone investigating further for themselves. Unfortunately, as is, i expect it would do the opposite and discourage further inquiry as time wasted.
Sorry to have offended those who love the film. I sympathize with your desire to understand what happened and to believe someone has the answers all packaged in an easily digestible format...
Dr. "SHAM"...what a perfect moniker for this hand-licker..what a 'tool'..
This is SO bizarre..that is actually..in my opinion..will SPARK MORE interest and...incredulity from the public..because, like this article itself does..these ACTUAL FACTS..like the steel being IMMEDIATELY..basically..HIDDEN..destruction of evidence..pure and simple..will increase the AWARENESS of 9/11 truth..NOT decrease it..OR..."put it to bed once and for all.." etc..NOPE! this Dr. SHAM and his SHAM REPORT..are so completely ..contrived...phony...STUPID frankly...that it will inspre more truth seeking..not..DECREASE it..
They ALLOWED this to happen..and..HELPED it to happen...it is..fairly EASY to do with a trillion dollars, a pager# for Bin Laden..and all the power in the western world..PLUS a perfect "Cover" in the form of "Vigilant Shield"..I mean please...if anyone else had this level of COINCIDENCE in their lives..they would be winning a super lotto a week..it's that preposterous..the "odds" of EVERY single ONE of these (IM)possibilities..these..."One of a kind occurrences" an this? the "PERFECT FIRE" this is JUST ONE MORE "PERFECT COINCIDENCE' SO HOW MANY "UNIQUE" SCENARIOS IS THIS NOW? WHAT WAS IT? A PERFECT 100 YEAR ALLIGNMENT OF THE PLANETS OR THE LIKE? PERFECT TURNS, PERFECT FLYING OF NON-PILOTS with NO FLIGHT TIME..(fer gawds sake)..PERFECT STRIKES OF WEAKEST AREAS..PERFECT DESTRUCTION FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER OF SEVERAL SKY SCRAPERS..ETC..ETC..ETC...HOW MANY "PERFECT" EVENTS DOES ONE NEED TO STOP REBUTTING ALL OF THIS WITH.."OH! SO YOU THINK IT WAS SOME VAST CONSPIRACY.."..MAN THAT PISSES ME OFF..
No..I guess you must be right..no conspiracy..JUST ONE PERFECTLY UNIQUE EVENT AFTER ANOTHER..MATHEMATICALLY IMPROBABLE..IN THE EXTREME..IF NOT..IN FACT..IMPOSSIBLE.. TO OCCUR "NATURALLY" AT THE VERY LEAST..NO..THAT IS WHAT IT WAS..JUST THIS TRILLION TO ONE SHOT..OVER AND OVER AGAIN..YEAH..THAT'S MORE LIKELY..you have convinced me..no conspiracy..your rebuttal is too keen..sorry I ever questioned the official story..our government..who has benefitted in the EXTREME..would NEVER LIE..there's been NO corruption or lies in THIS "presidency"..nawwww...these guy's are ..the very SOUL OF INTEGRITY..gee-whiz..gosh..shucks..I guess your right..
DUHHHHHH! WHATEVER!
AN OF COURSE..THEN THERE'S.."WHO BENEFITTED"..AND THAT ONE IS..UNDEBATABLE..BUSH CHENEY..NEEDED THIS..THEY EVEN PUT IT ON PAPER..OH..AND YEAH.THERE'S ANOTHER PERFECT MOMENT..WE NEED "ANOTHER PEARL HARBOR"...OH! HUP! LOOK! ANOTHER PEARL HARBOR..COOL..THAT WAS 'LUCKY'
JEEEEEEEEEZIS..
If anyone thought the tentacles of Big Brother didn't extend into every last gov't institution they are sadly mistaken. Repeating the same fictions with an NIST logo stamped on the document will not alter reality even though they would like it to.
It's like the midlevel neocon bureaucrat fluncky's comment to Ron Suskind in the book about O'Neill who said: "when we act we create our own reality".
This Gov't ideally should be in the Kool Aide business.
One can easily see the Nazi blueprint being followed here. Unfortunately the population has been pyschically numbed to the point they will believe just about any fairytale which would prevent them getting off their fat asses and taking action.
adrienrain July 5 2:39 pm:
Yes! I have no idea what happened on that day, but I know that the feds, the states, the cities, and the military did ALL they could do obstruct, distract, obfuscate, and deny. They lied, they blocked investigations, they scuttled evidence. One can see video of pools of molten steel at the base of the WTC towers...days AFTER the collapse. No, I don't KNOW what happened, although I believe senior people in the Executive (including the CIA and DoD) let it/made it happen on purpose. They needed an attack. Osama denied any involvement afterwards, criticizing the attack as a violation of his most sacred Muslim tenets of faith. And to those who think these people who NEVER deliberately kill 3,000+ Americans, all I can say is: "Grow up!"
Every possible piece of evidence (that would presumable bolster the "official" explanation and put the truth seekers to bed for the night) has either been destroyed or locked away.
Obviously, the REAL conspirators (as Political Economist (July 5 1:33 pm) so rightfully pointed out) were involved to some degree, in one way or another. And as to your question of EVERY air controller/NORAD technician being involved: they wouldn't have to be. Threats of "national security" and other modes of blackmail keep government employees - who each only know one little piece of the chain of events - from pooling their information and developing a plausible storyline counter to the government's stinking pile of dog crap.
It can be difficult to see the difference between conspiracy theory and fact.
One difference is that the conspiracy theory has been around longer than the fact:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_%28TV_Series%29
...and Lee Harvey Oswald's 'magic bullet' killed JFK and injured Governor Connely.
This is just more of the same from the people who brought you WMDs.
Read Mike Ruppert's 'Crossing the Rubicon' for the best hypothesis of who really committed 9/11.
|______ 9 _ ! _ ! ____ is __ a ______|
|___ C A N C E R __ OF __ F E A R ___|
|___ that __ G R O W S ___ where ____|
|___ A M E R I C A 's __ H E A R T __|
|_______ o n c e ____ w a s _________|
¿ Is not denial the nominal reaction to a CANCER that threatens one's life, core morality, and egalitarian economic system ?
As a physicist, I've studied the detailed models and available data of WTC building collapses, and
(1.) There is no possibility of GRAVITY ALONE causing the 'pancaking' progression of the weight of upper floors pulverizing concrete _and_
also collapsing each successive floor.
Remember the building's structure had been handling that weight above it for several decades, _and_ as anyone one's attempted to break up concrete knows -- it takes lots of energy to even take big pieces apart, and even much so more the progression to dust
(2.) The is no possible way for the airliner impact damage and low temperature fire to systematically and synchronously eliminate over 150 steel columns, to even cause the collapse of a SINGLE FLOOR
(3.) Even if miraculously, the structural integrity was completely destroyed on several floors ( near impact ), which occurred through the fire-proofed columns being weakened together with the direct damage -- that cannot explain the disintegration of the floor above that damage, nor the ones below.
In other words, the absolute worse case scenario, we would realistically expect is the upper floors falling mostly intact, but either staying partially connected, or twisting and moving sideways because of unbalanced forces -- while the rest of the building remains standing.
We did not observe anything close to this "two mostly intact pieces" scientific solution, thus the only possible reality is that large quantities of explosive energy was used to severe the structural integrity and pulverize the concrete.
This had to occur progressively on multiple floors ( sky lobby floors had key integrity ), and is completely beyond the resources of "cave dwelling terrorists", which could ALSO never have able to break down NORAD's trillion dollar earth & space spaced radar defenses that secured this country for 50 years ( against the Soviet threat ).
There actually are no verified impartial facts to back up the "official conspiracy theory", and the almost all evidence of foul play conveniently vanished -- years before the poorly funded "investigation" was started.
One must ask oneself,why would our gov't not want the very most solid scientific proof of the cause of buildings collapse, if it was as they say it was -- done by terrorists ?
¿ Who benefited from _9_!_!_ ?
Remember also, that we have in 7 yrs yet to BRING to JUSTICE a single terrorist, regardless of hundreds of thousands being tortured to "discover" what happened, and billions of expenses in the "War of Terror", coupled with egregious loss of America's civil and human rights.
Namaste « Presence »
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world » — Gandhi
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed » — Gandhi
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — ML King
First of all, check and re-check your sources, then apply logic.
WTC7 is not blocked! Thanks for nothing. Also try 911research.com and all the leads you'll find in there.
two: thermate is the "doer". it melts steel in a chemical reaction which leaves a molten edge around the cut, which is made at a 30 degree angle on the VERTICAL posts of the building. These would surely be left standing in any collapse. what we are talking about here is like the branches collapsing down around the trunk of a tree. some portion of the trunk would remain vertical.
three: thermate is applied like toothpaste all the way around the post to be cut, at that angle. then it is attached to a wire. you just stick it in. and tape it to the post. electricity starts the chemical reaction and it is not an explosion per se. i don't know if it sounds like one or not. so many have said they heard explosions i would guess so...the resultant chemical reaction does not stop because the building has fallen down upon all those pieces. that's why it smoked down there for so long. thermate smokes white. wood adn plastic and nylon carpets smoke black due to incomplete combustion (carbon unburnt going up in the hot air) the molten steel was setting off all the fallen plastic and pieces of carpets and wood in those offices. and it was too hot to even approach for th efiremen--ater had no effect on this chemical reaction...so after a while the carboniferous fires were put out and the smoke...watch the movie.
firemen noticed this effect. then when it cooled, they were shooed away and the place was made off limits by the FBI or CIA until all the trucks were loaded with the now-cooled steel pieces with their tell-tale molten ends cooled into curled knarly blobs like melted plastic, huh, by plastique.
These were taken to INDIA and CHINA to be melted into new I-beams in their steel mills--go figure. (coke melts steel.) one truck driver was arrested and fired for stopping for breakfast on the way to our port. read all about it.
four: how do we know so much and the press does not? what does Bruce Springsteen say? jeanie garafalo? 36% pf Americans think it was a conspiracy. they surely conspired to get rid of the evidence. remember the jet liner #800? they took months to bring up every part from the ocean depths and placed them on the floor of a huge warehouse/hangar....compare.
five: kerosene does not melt steel and if it did Pittsburgh's steel industry would have been in Texas.
six: there is enough circumstantial evidence here to hang a black man in Texas.
seven: use you own imagination, look at the movies. why does a building struck from one side by "flaming debris" then cave in from the middle?
why did they have diesel fuel in there anyway? try to build a gas tank at your house! and finally, the WTC was the working center for over 400 SEC FTC investigations on large US corporations' accounting practices. All the files were lost. heard anything new on that one? remember Enron? Short term mem loss. US is brain dead. the press is complicit. and maybe that explains why big corp sugar daddy is happily mute.
now let's talk about barry bonds....
get a passport and a sailboat.
bon voyage.
Something I've never seen addressed by anyone including the government: how has any security been improved since 911? Oh sure, we have little old ladies taking their shoes off at the airport but what about all those other 'failed' systems such as NORAD, general miscommunications, and silly as it sounds...the one lonely, poor working, fuzzy, security camera at the (state of the art techology) Pentagon? BTW my local Walgreen's has a better security system if the government wants to check it out. With this stuff supposedly defending our country...do these measures work or don't they, or is it only on a select basis?
Official story for rapid removal of Twin Towers steel was need to hurry in order to possibly "save lives" of victims still buried in the rubble.
For WTC7, there were no fatalities. Ergo, absolutely NO need to rapidly remove the debris, even under the "official" scenario.
The most outrageous, the most unsupported and impossible conspiracy theory to explain 9/11 is this: some foreign group, located in a cave in Afghanistan was able to ground US. civil air defense from Boston to Washington D.C.(the most advanced air defense system in the world), perform the expert piloting and precision maneuvers required on 9/11 and use pilots, ROOKIES never even trained to fly such jumbo jets, to accomplish this feat, was able to take over passenger jets armed with only box cutters,acted to collapse towers one and two with the heat of jet fuel--kerosene-which burns at a level much too low to melt steel, and cause a series of fires at building number seven that resulted in the very first collapse of a steel based sky-scraper. and all of this from a cave in Afghanistan! One would have to be a HELL of a RUBE to swallow THIS bullshit. America and its democracy is dead. love live Amerikka!!
Never believe anything that the government claims until it is "officially" denied.
It would appear that Dr. Scam needs to be added to the ever growing lists of criminals that stand up to perpetuate the "official" LIES OF 911.
Happy Independence Day Slaves.
Brian Brademeyer July 5th, 2008 4:07 pm ..This may be true, but as in any CRIME SCENE, the evidence could have been removed and stored somewhere. One thing to remove evidence...another to DESTROY evidence. That in itself is a crime.
Does anyone else here ever get this feeling that maybe they're really in a looney bin with a lot of other loonies, and in the real world everything is quite normal and the things "they" tell us is all true?
The fires burned for hours and then all the building's support structures failed in the exact same millisecond.
.......... Just wishful thinking, I guess.
And to all of us who question what they say, we know what their answer will be, don't we -"SO?"
With all the evidence so thoroughly destroyed, they don't have anything to worry about.
The only "conspiracy" involving 911 is the one that has and is being engaged in by the folks who run our government.
I happened to read the PNAC documents (Military Strategy for the 21st Century) just after they were up on the Internet (I think it was in early 2000, but can't remember th date.) I had never heard of Neo-conservatives, nor knew anything about their nefarious philosphies. But I was intrigued by their ideas in the PNAC docs that as the lone superpower in the world (after the so-called "collapse" of the Soviet Union) the US should immediately build-up the military to take advantage of the situation before another superpower emerged (like say, China?). A large portion of the paper dealt with accessing resources (i.e., oil) mainly in the ME, and how we would likely need a preemptive invasion to secure said resources and then establish forward military bases there from which to continue "sharing our love" with the rest of the world. The only problem the neo-cons really saw was getting the American public to sign-on with their plan - that is approve sending their sons and daughters to invade a ME country without provocation. Their solution to this problem was that it would take something like
"A New Pearl Harbor" to get Americans to support their imperialist plans. By the way, in case you don't know, the folks who wrote/signed this doc were: Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Bolton, Perle, Kristol, J. Bush, and more of your favs.
Well, what do you know? About a year and a half after these guys stole the 2000 election, and defying the rules of nature, the WTC buildings fall to the ground - an attack by sneaky Arab Terrorists OR, conveniently, A New Pearl Harbor - another day to live in infamy 9/11. Coincidence? I think not.
Many folks who've already commented here have outlined a lot of the basic reasons why 9/11 was an "inside job" -specifically the destruction of the WTC. But I saw no mention of the Pentagon and the crash in western PA. Everyone should also go on the Internet and examine the photos/videos of those sites as well. Where is the plane in that field in PA? How did a 757 (or 767 whatever it was supposed to have been) make a perfectly round hole in the Pentagon not even close to being as large as one of those jets? (very little of the pentagon was damaged) Where are the plane parts in the photos(those tail sections are pretty darn huge)? Where are the survivors or the bodies of the dead being carried off by emergency workers? Where are the hundreds of tapes immediately confiscated from surrounding businesses? I've seen photos of hundreds of plane crashes/explosions what-have-you over the years, and even in the worst ones there have usually been a couple survivors, and you can usually see the bones of the plane in the photos. Not so with 911.
I've visited most of the sites listed in other posts above,
but I didn't see http://www.911weknow.com . This is pretty comprehensive and the 911 Mysteries video is in 3 parts in case you don't have time to watch all the info at once.
I'm personally waiting to see what new "terrorist attack" scenario these creeps are going to perpetrate (probably before Nov) in order to try and "scare" us all again into believing it's necessary to nuke Iran.
What scares me most is thinking that Cheney and Bush are thinking about hanging around in the WH for just a little while longer....
From the beginning folks - there is no way that the events that happened on September 11, 2001 to ALL the WTC towers in Manhatten were not planned, aided and abetted by americans PERIOD.
Of course the "americans" involved give a rat's ass about arbitrary boundaries such nationality in their pursuit of their true gods.
america has lived the JFK lie so the WTC lie is just another piece of fantasy that helps make life worth living.
america, a nation so dysfunctional and so disconnected that living in the realm of fantasy is the only way to survive.
I mean the wife, the kids, the mortgage, the bills, the rush hour, the noise [the white noise will kill ya], the cops, the baker, the banker, the asshole next door and last but not least my teams can not win and my beer is warm so just what is a guy to do ?
I mean "What the Fuck ?", right ?
Building 7 was old and was going to fall over anyway. Old things just get tired and fall over.
It was just coincidental that it fell over in the same time frame as the twin towers. It could have happened any day. It just looks suspicious because it fell on 9/11. No one would think about it at all if it fell on some other day.
See, that NIST got nothing over me. I'm as good an investigator as they are.
Excuse me while I continue my quest to replace John Yoo as Berkeley professor. I can do better than him too.
This is bullshit of course. Tons of explosives and high tech timers were secretly wired up to building Seven and late at night, hundreds of selected steel beams were cut at an angle so that when the timed explosives were fired in "perfect sequence", the building would fall "straight down". It was an inside demolition job, "no question about it", any fool can see that.
Oh, someone asked how the fires started? If you study the entire day's events, a large wing portion of an aircraft struck the roof and side of building Seven, along with tons of spewing and on fire jet fuel. On the roof of building seven were storage tanks with thousands of gallons of diesel fuel which were ruptured and that fuel flowed down into the building, adding to the jet fuel fires.
That's how the fires started and automatic fire sprinkers supplied with water do not put fuel fires out, water tends ot spread fuel fires. In addition, after a short time, the water pressure for the automatic sprinklers dropped and they were useless for ANY other type of fire in any of the Trade Center buildings.
Massive fires spread throughout the the building, but that obviously did not effect the pre-set explosives at all, a master plan which had been carefully thought out, knowing the building would be set ablaze by an aircraft strike on towers one or two.
The plan to secretly demolish building Seven was far better than any plans ever put forth by the
~Mission Impossible~ writers.
Someone also asked, how could concrete pulverize into dust? Well if you check the blueprint plans of those buildings, you will find the floors were four inch thick, reinforced "LIGHT WEIGHT" concrete. Stairways, the basements and foundation, were regular strength concrete.
The floors were attached with lightweight brackets, bolted and or welded to the beams of the central core of the buildings, a structural design feature never before used. Not likely it will ever be copied again either, after 9-11. An almost finished parking garage with the same design, did fall straight down in Atlantic City about seven years ago. No fire, it just collapsed all by itself. Not a swell design.