The reasons for war that prevailed in 2002, still prevail today: Protection of oil interests, gaining control of oil fields, protection of Israel from its Arab enemies, and satisfaction for the hawks in America.
The question is: Will Barack Obama have the guts to put down the powerful right wing that wants to continue this war and even escallate it to Iran for more of the same reasons.

There is no reason why we shouldn't have third parties. If the two major parties don't produce a candidate worth voting into office, why not vote against those the R & D parties support?
It's infuriating when our candidate may not get elected because too many votes go to the third party but . . . Why shouldn't they?
I've voted green before probably will again but not this time.
Democracy is a balance of every individual's belief. As a nation we're not Progressives or Conservatives or anything in between. We're not homogenous in any other way. Democracy is a compromise of all our differences and beliefs as it has been from the start.
Those of us who can't abide the compromise this time, must either not vote or vote for the third party candidate.
Those who can see something worth voting for in the R or D candidate, will make that choice.
I do agree we get the government we deserve.
The trick is: Yes we have laws but we citizens must be diligent to force our leaders to follow the laws.
It's only recently that I realized having laws doesn't guarantee any rights. All it means is that if the law isn't followed we have recourse.
When those in the Nixon Administration learn from Nixon's fall to break the law better next time if they're just given the chance, what chance did we have against them when too many of us weren't paying attention.
There will always be unscrupulous people. Vigilance and oversight must be ever present by every citizen. We've become lazy choosing to believe what we're told rather than the way it really is. There's no excuse other than ignorance.
If we don't educate ourselves when our government fails to provide, we allow those to play us as suckers.
It's okay to get angry and frustrated at our government as long as it prompts action. Noise is like pissing in the wind.
Our government can't be any better than we are, but if we're all watching. . . we can watch out for each other.

...more trailer park trash.

P L U C K I S T A N I _ P E T E

We might need any excess plucking feathers you have laying around, over on the tar-sands "vacation" thread, perhaps we could make use of a few extra chicken heads as well ?

Namaste

Now is the time to support President McCain and his hot young wife! Through Jesus' Guidance, even the Vietnamese Heathens now recognize his wisdom!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25418965

Progressive?/Regressive!
What do we do now?

Re: "The majority party has repeatedly failed to force Bush's hand on Iraq since taking over Congress in 2006 elections."

That quote from this article is about the best compressed journalistic nugget I've yet seen. It says it all.

The perfidity of Democratic Congressmembers in continuing to fund the wars - in this case, ostensibly to get GI educational funding - is truly mind-boggling. Educational funding is a thin rationale promoted by Congressmen Obey and others to bamboozle their constituency as if they were dumb sheep. Of course, the sacred troop withdrawal timeline had to go from the bill (an excuse Senator Obama has used to continue war funding).

Is it asking too much of Dem/Repubs to remember these kinds of votes come November?

Orwell knew.

kgarry June 28th, 2008 12:10 pm
"I will live with myself by voting for McKinney or Nader. I will not allow the (D) party to take my vote for granted as they triangulate ever-rightward."

-Well said my friend.

~ TAILCAP ~ _ and _ ~ KGARY ~

( 1.) _ I have had many screen names, including ~ NAMASTE ~, ~ PRESENCE ~, ~ NSPIRE ~, and have had to constantly created new ones to escape permanently being ba_n☠ned from CD.

(2.) _ The Hindi word Namaste is a salutation, that many in India use as a greeting, whcih acknowledges the inner truth of both in each other's presence.

(3.) _ Several other posters have also used Namaste in their postings at the end for the exact same reasons that I choose to use it, as it inspires us to see the good in all others. Included in this list of other posters is ~ ANGLE2SHINE ~, who's screen name is attached to the post from June 28th, 2008 1:35 am -- that you were BOTH responding to.

(4.) _ I have attempted to make use of screen name ~ Presence «Namaste» ~ in part to discourage incorrect identification based on the final word of a posting being Namaste ( which I encourage ).

(5.) _ The powers that BE, have found reasons to cen_☠sor me and de_lete many postings, which I protest by perennially returning.

Thank you for noticing my postings, I will likely be returning as "whoknowswhat" someday soon.

Presence
« Namaste »

« We must be the change we wish to see in the world » — Gandhi
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed » — Gandhi
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — ML King

There always is money for wars, yet peace goes begging.

Namaste: Let's make Obama and McBush a bit worse (okay, okay, QUITE a bit worse) than they are and recast the election players: in the role of Obama is Hitler and playing "war-hero-by-continuously-crashing-aircraft" McBush is Josef Stalin. Hitler is said to be responsible for, what, 20 million deaths? Stalin had 30 to 50 million notches on his belt. So that means I should cast my vote for who? You KNOW where playing the-lesser-of-two-evils game will ALWAYS get you: in bed with evil.

This is why we desperately need publicly-funded campaigns and a demolition of all the barricades the (R)s and (D)s have erected for 3d, 4th, 5th, etc. parties: the assinine signature requirements, anti-fusion laws, ad nauseum.

If so-called progressives and liberals would only commit to their VALUES and ISSUES (peace, justice, freedom, the fight against sexism, racism, and specieism, environmental concerns, a secular nation/government, blah blah blah) INSTEAD of marrying - 'til death do they part - a political party, an act which demands compromise from the moment joined, we would see candidates like Cindy, Nader, McKinney, Kucinich, Sanders, et. al. as office-holders and viable presidential contenders.

I will NOT vote for a faux-liberal like Obama no matter how many Obamagasms he induces in the pubescent body politic; I will live with myself by voting for McKinney or Nader. I will not allow the (D) party to take my vote for granted as they triangulate ever-rightward. And if McBush wins the day, I will expect Senators, regardless of the party in control, to hold his administration accountable: filibustering poor judicial nominees, reigning in an imperial administration, advancing just and noble causes. If they fail to do so (as they have failed to do so so far) it will not be the fault of either my vote or my candidate(s). The responsibility will belong, just as it belongs now, to the (D) party and those citizens who abandoned their principles for the sake of being on the side of the presumed game-winning team.

Oh, and curmudgeon99 June 28 2:43 am: excellent point. They are FOREVER playing with the numbers. Considered to be employed are also those formerly middle class folks who have lost their $100K/year jobs and are now working two $25K/year jobs and falling ever deeper into debt.

Finally, to Cindy and tailcap: warm feelings and a shout-out from me to you.

It gets worse and worse and worse by the day.

The spiral continues downward.

Next stop Iran.

You don't really think this is going to stop with an election do you?

People........when do we take to the streets? When???

Where are the people?

Someone tell me........where the hell are the people???

Whew! Being a natural born free thinker I have to thank god there aren't even more people talking about glorious wars in Jesus name. It seems that's what half the Iraq occupation is about – bullshit religious dictums from ancient times controlling narrow minds to the point of murdering those who disagree – all in the name of a god that didn't see fit to tell the billions of non-Muslim/Christian/Jew humans that God was coming to enlighten them. It seems that this depiction of god thinks they – Buddhists, Hindu's, and Native's - don't count in the mix. I guess that is where all that prerequisite proselytizing comes in handy – convert or kill the heathens – convert or kill the white devils… kill, kill, kill until there are no more. These are people who can't find God in their heart but fiercely defend a book – pick your poison - which they don't adhere to anyway as the source of their skewed morality. "Here's what to think, no worries." What a crock of shit.

Meanwhile, people suffer and die over fairy tales. The Bogeyman doesn't need any help with these folks for he is them. This is the religious progress of 2000 years.

Senator Byrd says... "The majority of the American people have come to see this war as a costly mistake that needs to be brought to a close. This legislation brings us no closer to that goal."

Costly mistake? Do you think Haliburton or Boeing or General Dynamics or United Defence Technologies or any other corporation considers this war to be a mistake? Hardly. Serious legislation would focus on the wants of the Iraqi majority. Instead of trying to talk about vague timetables for withdrawal, serious legislation would tie into the will of the people. e.g. X number of dollars will be spent until 2009 when the US government shall then follow the recommendations dictated to them by the Iraqi government. But if Americans can't control the American government, why should we expect the Iraqi government to have any influence?

Angel2shine..You need serious help! Have you considered a DIY lobotomy?

Namaste,
I have read many of your posts and thought you were deeper. The good vs. bad, black and white, Lakers vs. Celtics mentality is extremely shallow. I mean oh my God! Do you really think good guys wearing tall, white hats would sell out our privacy, refuse to uphold the constitution, and continue to fund a murderous imperial war for plunder? It's laughable.

I liken this type of thinking to what must go through the mind of a frog sitting in gradually warming water. They must think, "Hey it's a little uncomfortable but I can take it"...until they cook.

What boggles my mind is the mental contortions Democratic Party apologists go through to rationalize their vote for traitors not realizing they are already cooked.

Namaste your goose has been cooked. We now live in a country where the "opposition party" has allowed criminals to be retroactively pardoned for their crimes because they are wealthy and power. Democrats like you are okay with that and continue supporting betrayers.

Your sold out, "good guys" Democrats:
1) Your Democrats voted to give W the green light for war.
2) Your Democrats fund W's war.
3) Your Democrats refuse to impeach W.
4) Your Democrats allow illegal spying.
5) Your Democrats allow W to trample on the constitution.
6) Your Democrats helped out Mukasey.
7) Your Democrats legalize crime for the rich and powerful (only).
8) Your Democrats voted for right wing Supreme Court Justices.
9) Your Democrats allowed Mukasey to be confirmed.
10)Your Democrats have sold us out.

Look enough said, Namaste, go vote for your "good guy" Democrats.

RIGHT ON, Cindy. Ditto.
As I type I have an evelope containing a contribution sitting on a table next to me ready to be mailed. Come on folks send Cindy a contribution. Cindy deserves our support!

How long will it be until the US (and in my own country, the British) armed forces turn their weapons on their own people? When those in power respond in that way to the grievances of people, can any nation ever be the same again?

Of course it can't!

RIGHT ON, Cindy.

Good for you Cindy ~ you've got guts. I hope you dethrone that Pelousy thing come election time.

THAT would be some hope and change we can believe in.

angel2shine

you are already blaming me for a mccain victory?
obama compromises true progressive values every day and i have not once sold out humanity for a vote or a buck.

don't even go there. if obama loses, it's because he is another corporate tool for the military industrial complex.

obama sold our rule of law out with his support of the fisa debacle and he has supported every funding bill for something he claims he is against. he is selling our troops out and the people of Iraq who are the ones paying for his political expediency.

and, i am running against pelosi, not obama.

you have lowered the bar so stinkin' low, an ant can't even get under it...and you have the nerve to already be blaming me for the complicity of the democratic party!?

hold your candidates to the same standard you hold a citizen who is trying to raise the bar so we get the government we should have, not the one that we deserve by our own cowardice and compromise with our own values.

i won't sell out humanity like the corporate demo-publican nazis have and i won't sell my soul for a political office. win or lose, i will do so with my integrity intact. can obama say that?

cindy

deepa:

Your version of the antiwar movement of the 1960's-70's is incorrect: kudos are due strictly to WE Nam vets who were primarily responsible for ending the `Nam war!

Until WE got involved, the antiwar movement was a pathetic collection of clowns/sheeple who didn't have a clue how to be really effective at fighting the system.

When WE got involved, WE lit a collective fire under their sorry arses, organizing them and turning them, into an effective fighting machine against the system. It was WE, not they who did it!

The author forgot about the unemployment extensions. Since CA just went over 6% 'official' Unemployment, that means 26 weeks instead of 13 in CA,

Maybe the true figure will come out, maybe not. Remember all those unemployed for more than 26 weeks are NOT counted.

Just something more to kick around. Experts think the true range is from a minimum of 12-13% up to 18-20%.

It's not a matter of fucking compromise, angel2shine. It's a mater of fucking capitulation. We have a ONE party system. The CORPORATE party of America. The democrats are not a force for good. There may be a few good democrats here and there, but they exist so you can pretend we live in a democracy. Do you want the puppet on the left or on the right, as Bill Hicks would say.

YOU are a part of the problem. YOU are the reason that a third party will never be viable, because you give into the FEAR and listen to the wolves in sheep's clothing telling you "trust us, we'll make everything OK," despite the fact, that they have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to show for it over the last 60 years.

Make Obama earn your vote. Don't just give it to him. I am so sick of this "throwing away" your vote rhetoric. YOU are throwing away your vote by voting out of fear instead of voting for what you believe in, and don't try to tell us folks with principle who refuse to sell out anything different.

You're no different than a yuppie who lives in the burbs, drives a Prius 20 miles to work each day, and hits up your "organic" food in a box store, and thinks you are accomplishing something.

Fuck your feel-good accomplish nothing revolution. I want something with soul. I want something that's real. I don't want to parade around with a good-guy badge because I voted for the Democrats and ate some tofu.

I want to know that I made a stand, and if that means "throwing away my vote" then so be it.

If I can't have my third party, I won't vote. Period.

Democrats voted for the education benefits for our veterans, 13 week extention of unemployment benefits, and aid to midwest flood victums, also seeing that the Bush Administration can't use the funds to establish permanent bases in Iraq, and to call for the Iraqi government to spend as much on reconstruction as the US.

We can complain at will about the Democrats and Barack, than become part of the problem ourselfs by throwing away our vote on 3rd party no-chances.

Any thing passed is a compromise between the basic forces of good (Dems) and evil (Repubs) lol, K.i.s.s, because our government is a compromise with the Republican President.

If McSame gets in, thanks to Nader,Cindy and Nod, the gridlock continues.

Namaste

kman2 June 27th, 2008 10:13 pm
Sorry about the argument semi-aD Hominem-Abusive. I used to be a Marine and I guess that's where I learned it. First you cut them down with a machine gun and then you offer them an apology and a band-aid.

kman2 (10:13 pm) witlessly blathers,

"...If your complaint is that we keep sending money to Iraq, It's not Obama's fault! We are there, that is the f++king reality of it. You lefties live in fantasy land. For example, part of the funding is sending military medical supplies. Are you lefties against medical supplies to go to Iraq?..."

- If the members of the Party of Collaborators had wished, they could have proposed funding to cover ONLY the troops' medical needs, and their safe transportation back home. But they didn't even attempt to propose that, now did they. No, they proposed to keep the troops there, & to keep them fighting for US domination of the region & its resources. They made not the slightest attempt to limit -- let alone terminate -- the murderous catastrophe the US government has brought to Iraq.

But you lash out at "lefties," while defending the immoral cowards of the Dem Party. Yet if we lefties had been in control, the invasion of Iraq would never have taken place. And if we lefties were in control today, the troops would be getting full medical care, and would be on the plane home, tomorrow. And we wouldn't have sellouts like Obama who only a week ago supported Bush's position on retroactive immunity for Telecoms.

So, you're a little confused as to who the good guys are, & who the criminals are.

kman2 June 27th, 2008 10:13 pm writes:
"If your complaint is that we keep sending money to Iraq,

It's not the money stupid, it's the killing!

kman2 June 27th, 2008 10:13 pm writes:
"If your complaint is that we keep sending money to Iraq, It's not Obama's fault! We are there, that is the f++king reality of it. You lefties live in fantasy land. For example, part of the funding is sending military medical supplies."

I love this completely bankrupt mentality which goes something like this: We are already in an illegal, immoral occupation for the rape and plunder of Iraq so that Big Oil, Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater, and a host of profit seekers can make a killing (literally), but thats okay because they are already there and we need to make sure they have bandages and band aides which is what part of the money goes to pay for when they get blown up by roadside bombs.

Look kman2, I could give a flying f^%k what Wellstone or Kucinich would do. I know what I would do and fund the war isn't it. I know Wellstone and Kucinich WOULD NOT VOTE TO FUND THE WAR anyway. Kucinch has been passinately against it.

The only reason Obama didn't vote for it was because he couldn't. He wasn't a Senator yet. Once he became one his support could be counted on by the Republicans.

The bankrupted "we are there so we have to stay there - it's not Obama's fault eventhough he vote to fund it" is one of the most preposterous, impotent and feeblest arguments I can imagine. Weak. Surely you can do better than that.

beavercleaver, you say "With more than 3/4 of the public demanding Iraq withdrawl...."

Sorry beaver. Whatever public you're talking about, it ain't the USA's.
Only a .001 fraction of We The People have DEMANDED anything at all about this war.

In the face of a don't-bother-me-congress, a real 3/4 popular DEMAND would mean huge marches and civil disobediance protests across the country, political rage expressed by activated middle class folk to d.c. beltway power pigs by millions of letters, faxes, emails, telegrams; and more than a few citizen-politician confrontations in the halls of the US Capitol.

The war goes on because there's only mild displeasure expressed about it by an immoral-by-default majority.

And what's to be done with an immoral majority? Can we call in a secular/progressive version of Jerry Falwell to persuade the majority from its errant path?

I can't answer these questions...but I WILL at least vote for Nader.

"...The deal was reached after Democrats agreed to drop a withdrawal timetable from the bill..."

THE FIREWORKS are a-flyin' one whole week early here in Chickenpluckistan! As Foretold in Scripture, "Internal Squawking shall give way to Unity against the Common Agressors in Service to God Almighty!"

Yes-sir-ee! The Heathens in all their forms shall be banished from Chickenpluckin' America! GONE are the treacherous Scientists with their so-called "logic", GONE are the Islamo-Fascists in Afghanistan and Iraq, GONE are the Atheist bloggers smoking Homegrown while listening to the new MGMT album!

Through Endless Wars in JESUS' NAME, these Heathens will no longer harm our young Pluckistanis, and they will grow in Fellowship and spread FEAR among the non-believers!

"Democratic Senator Robert Byrd noted that with this new funding, Congress will have approved over 656 billion dollars for the war in Iraq.
-Is this what this Democratic maggot, that I used to admire, said before or after he voted for it?"

"What do ya say, Obama-lovers?"

If your complaint is that we keep sending money to Iraq, It's not Obama's fault! We are there, that is the f++king reality of it. You lefties live in fantasy land. For example, part of the funding is sending military medical supplies. Are you lefties against medical supplies to go to Iraq?
Any of you lefties willing to say "no" to funding bandages for Iraq??

I for one have always been against Iraq all along, but to clean this mess up will take money. I was one was the 20+% who have been against this war since 2002. I know for a fact many of you so-called anti war people were actually in favor of war in 2002-03. I know many personally. Polls showed 70+% of Americans supported war then. Obama did not. I did not. Byrd did not. No Obama was not there to vote in 2002, but a person can still be against something and not be in the Senate yet!!

Many of you new lefties actually supported it too but won't admit it. I am bitter as hell many of you people of the new left supported it and now talk tough against it. Too little and too late......

Ask yourself, what would Wellstone do? He would support Obama, just like Dennis Kucinich does.

And some of you lefties want Bob Barr??... a very right wing Bob Barr voted in favor of war in 2002. WTF?

What do ya say, Obama-lovers?

Democratic Senator Robert Byrd noted that with this new funding, Congress will have approved over 656 billion dollars for the war in Iraq.
-Is this what this Democratic maggot, that I used to admire, said before or after he voted for it?

"However, with this legislation, we will once again take care of our troops."
-Notice how for Democratic-Republicans "taking care" of troops never involves taking them out of harms way but keeping them in it.

Obama voted for it. Go Democrats! Vote for Obama!

You ain't seen nothing yet, folks.

The congress just passed legislation basically giving Bush the green light to attack Iran.

Obama supports EVERYTHING Bush does - wars against other nations, civil rights violations, you name it.

Still want to vote for Obama? Still think he'll be "better" than Bush? Sucker-r-r-r-r-s!

The Supreme Court ruling on handguns and this scary article tie in with each other. Why? Americans love violence!

Check 'Right To Bear Arms?' on my blog!

www.dangerouscreation.com

30,000 Combat troops heading to Iraq in 2009

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080627/D91IM2O04.html

Thanks Democratic Congress!

Even though articles on the attitude and behaviour of the American politicians and the government towards war and violence is appreciable, the question that is often ignored is: how could the politicians and the government spend so much of money on weapons and wars, if there is no public support? What is the responsibility of the RESPONSIBLE citizens, when their political representatives are not bothering about the plight and basic needs of the Americans?

It was political activism among students, jurers, women, and soldiers that brought an end to the American cruelty in Vietnam. Students were heavily involved in the protests against Vietnam war. The capacity for independent judgment among ordinary Americans was best shown by the development of antiwar feeling among Americn GIs, women, workers, entertainers, journalists and students.

However today because of disillusionment among common American citizens towards politics and politicians, there is indifference and this resulted in turning their attention "to entertainment, to gossip, to ten thousand schemes for self-help." The polititians and the corporates are no longer under the radar of the public. The politicians and the corporates have also succeeded in diverting people's attention from politics by creating more entertainment, more gossip, and most importantly, more tensions among people based on race, religion, and class, so that people may never come together against them and thus the divided, silenced, apathetic and poverty-stricken masses may never pose danger to the status quo.

beckyb: See? Not even Common Dreams can edit away all of the MSM lies.

Every career politician should be takin' to the wailing wall and summarily executed...not a tear would be shed, and you'd be hardpressed to find 6 pallbearers in all the land. With more than 3/4 of the public demanding Iraq withdrawl, isn't it obvious that this is not fair representation?
By the way, what's a sizeable minority?

More and mor bullshit...WHINE..and RATIONALIZE...but by all means..each and every one of you..KEEP ON FINANCING THE WAR..

IT WAS NOT THE DEMS..IT WAS NOT THE REPUGS....IT IS Y-O-U!..THEY AREN'T PAYING FOR IT THEMSELVES...YOUR MONEY IS BEING USED...YOUR MONEY..YOUR MONEY..YOUR MONEY! PERIOD..

You can keep on looking the other way..keep on using the sleight of hand that is the Government shell game.."it was the Dems..no it is the repugs..no it's Bushco..." etc..etc..etc..

But NOPE! it's YOUR MONEY!

until you..the people..wake up and impose economic sanctions on this rogue government..instead of rationalizing and looking to blame anyone else but yourselves...the war machine will continue to churn out the end of freedom..as a product...and you are getting what you pay for..

Adlai Stevenson said.."THE PEOPLE GET THE KIND OF GOVERNMENT THEY DESERVE.." And you all play the BLAME GAME...just like they do...and yet..YOU PAY THE SALLERIES OF THE TORTURERS..THE BOMBERS..THE KIDNAPPERS..THE $100,000 SPENT IN ITALY ON ONE RENDITION..ON FANCY HOTLES NO LESS...SEEMS THE CIA LIKE STO PARTY BEFORE THEY KIDNAP AND TORTURE AN INDIVIDUAL...WELLL..THAT WAS YOUR MONEY...HEY..MAYBE IT'S A DOLLAR FROM YOUR RETURS THAT BUY'S THE BULLET THAT KILLS A CHILD...WHY NOT? CAN YOU PROVE IT ISN'T?

One thing we know for a FACT! it is YOUR MONEY THEY ARE SPENDING..AND WITHOUT IT..THE WAR STOPS..PERIOD!

SO WAKE UP..COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, WITH MONEY AS POWER..THAT'S HOW THEY DO IT..WHY ARE YOU ALL INCAPABLE OF SEEING THIS?????

I ahve an Hypothesis regarding WHY you continue to pay....

FEAR!

AS LONG A OYU ARE TOO AFRAID TO TAKE ANY ACTUAL "RISK" AND IT REALLY AINT ASKING MUCH..HEN IT'S ONLY OUR DEMOCRACY ON THE LINE...AND THE DEATHS OF MILLIONS..NAWWWWW..YOU CANNOT BE BOTHERED...

SO..UNTIL YOU TAKE RESPONSIBLITY..AT THE VERY LEAST..FOR YOUR PART IN THIS INSANITY...YOU ARE NOT CREDIBLE..

I CAN HEAR THOSE RATIOANLS A'CLICKIN AWAY...GO FOR IT! IT'S ALL YO'VE GOT LEFT!

BETTER TO DIE ON YOUR FEET THAN TO LIVE ON YOUR KNEES..

Important is the note you provided RichM, and I'm ... disgusted that [NO] D-Senators voted against the bill. Your belief on why the six R-Sens who voted against the bill may be the real reason, and if it is, then that's definitely rotten politics. But the bill needed to be voted against, so at least a few Sens did. And Obama was not, this time, one of the abstainers, non-votes, having voted 'Yea', which his supporters will hopefully NOT ignored.

Also, I see the eductional benefits for the military veterans and aid to the Midwest flood victims as important to provide, but NOT in a bill like this one. By including those in this bill, which should, imo, strictly be on whether or not to provide more funding for the war on Iraq, and how much to approve, if anything, I see the bill modified in a way that SMELLS OF BRIBERGY; as if trying to somewhat subtly bribe the military veterans and the flood victims into supporting the continuation of this war.

It will not end in mid-2009, and I doubt that the Dem. Party really believes otherwise. Some members surely want an end to this war, but too many clearly do NOT, and never really have.

This is not the first time that they've added amendments to war bills for the purpose of supposedly helping Americans in the USA, and while the attempts have perhaps even failed every prior time, it always smelled like bribery was secretly intended. They're always amendments that really have nothing to do with the present wars in terms of continuing them, which should be treated as a wholly [distinct] issue and never intermixed with the corruption added with unrelated amendments. Instead, these other issues should also be treated distinctly enough, only combined when it really makes ethical and logical sense to do so.

I'll be glad if veterans and the flood victims really obtain serious benefits due to these amendments to this bill, but wonder if they really will, and these still should be treated separately. They vote often enough, so they could easily create separate bills.

The photo caught my eye too. Notice how it says "US troops guarding a house", how about occupying a house? Doesn't look like they are guarding the house to me- they would be outside and the family would be inside cooking, talking, living. How would you feel if this was your house? Sickening. Nothing less than horrific what is looked upon as a normal day in Iraq.

make that "anyone"

"Taking care of the troops" means bringing them home. The war was based on lies and deceit--what else does anypne need to know?

That's just the way it is. Some things just never change, that's just the way it is. Old tune but the popular melody among the general public. Tell you what, come on Vermont and Secede and set a real example of We're Not Going to Take it Anymore.

Until the Democrats get some balls (no offense to the lady Senators)Bush will continue to get whatever he wants. The Senate Democrats talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

Actually, it is more important that we get a veto-proof progressive Senate than it is to have Obama get elected. Watch what happens in the elections this fall for the Senate. That will tell you if there is going to be any change in the direction of where this country is heading.

I have just found the voting record of the Senate on HR 2642, the so-called "military appropriations bill". Six Senators, all Republicans voted "nay". Wannabe McCain was absent! All Democratic Senators, including Clinton and wannabe Obama, voted "aye" but Senator Kennedy was absent. They have therefore retroactively approved President Bush's surge.

www.CindyforCongress.org

They shoot and flush korans...they torture innocent people physically, mentally, and sexually, they kill innocent babies and rape young women. To top all of this off---they throw puppies off of cliffs.

Why wouldn't they desecrate a prayer rug?

Their leaders are thugs and they follow their leaders.

It is truly sickening and the Democratic Congress is able to convince the masses that they are "against the war" with their mouths while they fund it with our money, or money borrowed from China.

;(
Cindy

Words, LOL, I like your suggestion.

Just like the congress gave Bush a blank check to fund the war, give blank checks for all the politicians running for election that voted for it.

But make sure the blank check is for $0. A big fat zero. Don't contribute money except to those candidates that support ending the war by refusing to fund it.

Impeach

Vote Third Party

Nice picture - Corporate America's filthy jackboots desecrating an Islamic prayer rug.

Maplefudge, you're right. This illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq (and Afghanistan) needs to stop being called a "WAR" by the war-loving war profiteers.

It's damn ridiculous to call it a "war" when there was NO THREAT by the
(1) Iraq government
(2) Iraq military
(3) no Iraqi terrorists
(4) no Iraq ties to 9/11
(5) no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Timebiter's comment is to the point. A government run in red ink creates a ready excuse why not to fund social programs, it also creates an illusion in the public mind that government is an ineffective way to solve problems.
Just prior to the invasion of Iraq the debate was about the lack of federal funds for education and then soon after, there was suddenly a mountain of money available for the war.

RichM June 27th, 2008 11:45 am -- 'Note that 41 Democrats would have been enough to stop this funding.'

Charles Sullivan has written a good article for ICH entitled Elections, Capitalism, And Democracy which is well worth reading in its entirety. Here's a very brief excerpt:

Each election cycle the people on the left find themselves out-flanked by those on the right by allowing them to frame the debate and to define who we are. So each election we end up supporting a very moderate candidate rather than a truly progressive one. Because all of the mainstream candidates are intensively influenced by corporate lobbyists and the electoral system is owned by capital, democracy has remained as elusive as capturing the ghost of a saint with a piece of duct tape.
[...]
This is why the country continues to quietly drift further to the right: there is no real choice in elections and we continue to behave as if there is. It is the capitalist system that is at fault, not the candidates themselves who play the game according to the dictum of its inventors. They, too, as despicable as some of them are, are its unwitting victims. What hope is there for genuine progressives in a game that is rigged? If we are ever to become responsible citizens, we must learn how to separate the contents of the box from the fancy packaging. The same old ideology, regardless of who espouses it, will not lead to meaningful change; nor will pursing the same old methods.

I don't agree with that 'unwitting victims' characterization, but the rest of the argument seems quite valid.

~ MAPLEFUDGE ~

I know what you mean, but what would we call

___ W A R_ m o n g e r i n g __ then ?

Namaste

Watching the value of the dollar go in one direction and the price of oil in the other informs us that while we might be able to continue our insane ways a bit longer, the end is in sight and it may not be pretty when it arrives.

www.StudentsForTheEarth.org

Could we stop calling this illegal invasion and burglary a WAR.

What did we expect? We need to "Support the Troops" at least until GWB is safe back on his ranch planning his legacy. Then the next poor guy can try to make sense of the fiasco.

Vote for Bob Barr, Libertarian

This legislation should not surprise anyone who has been paying attention for X amount of years. Peace and non-violent approaches to problems aren't American values. The Germans and Japanese had to learn the hard way, and perhaps a similar fate awaits us.The US military has to be stopped and the US government indicted for war crimes, crimes against humanity, a war on the American people, and tried in the International Criminal Court, convicted and punished appropriately.

I see a blockbuster best-selling book by you on the way Pluckistani_Pete.

Senator Byrd says:

"The majority of the American people have come to see this war as a costly mistake that needs to be brought to a close. This legislation brings us no closer to that goal."

This is total rubbish! Every chicken plucker I know supports this war and all future wars fought to defeat the Heathen Muslims, and others with differing opinions!

Bane Richter,

GOD has Blessed you with HIS Wisdom. Many in Triple Canopy were trained on our Christian Militia ranges right here in Chickenpluckistan! They have gone forth to plunder in JESUS' NAME, and will bring back the spoils so that Our Children may enjoy Everlasting Life!

We are following the same path of economic hollowing-out that the former Soviet Union took. Billions appropriated for the military starved their economy and eventually caused a sudden governmental implosion in the late '80's. There is no reason for us to believe that the same thing won't happen to us. Our wars have already made China our banker, with life-or-death decision power over the value of our currency. It is just a matter of time; our implosion is a question of when, not if.

More reasons for ALL OF US to vote outside of the two (sic) party system in all elections. If enough of us rejected the catch-22 of viability, we could send a clear message that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! Stop voting for Democrats!

Homeless in San Diego? Get your resume to CACI, enjoy the spoils of looting done properly. The swindle is so massive, and so many "God-fearing" Americans pay their mortgages by working for Malevolence Inc, what choice do the check writers have?
No health insurance in Herndon, VA? Go to work for Triple Canopy....etc

Note that 41 Democrats would have been enough to stop this funding. Interestingly, of the 6 votes opposing the measure, all 6 were REPUBLICANS!

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vo...

Offhand, I would guess that these 6 opposed the measure because it involved "too much spending" on veterans' benefits.

So the republicans want to oppose a Gi Bill.

What was that Carlin said: anti abortionists tend to be for the pre-born, but when youre born, they dont care about you until your military age.

The grand republican plan has been to spend this country into bankruptcy thereby eliminating big government. Pity that a fair number of the democrats also belong to the GOP.