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Today's Top News
Netroots Feel Jilted by Obama's FISA Stand
When former Sen. John Edwards dropped out of the presidential race, the progressive Netroots took their affections to Barack Obama, defending him against attack from Hillary Rodham Clinton and others.
But with his support of a government surveillance bill that offers retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies - a bill that he vowed last year to filibuster - the honeymoon has ended.
Disappointed over his position on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the online activists feel jilted and betrayed and have taken to questioning his progressive credentials. One prominent blogger, Atrios, has even given him the moniker "Wanker of the Day."
"He broke faith," said Matt Stoller, a political consultant and blogger at OpenLeft.com. "Obama pledged to filibuster, and he is part of that old politics, in this case, that he said he wasn't. It will spur us to challenge him."
The FISA debate marks the presumptive Democratic nominee's first serious break from the liberal Netroots in the general election. He is still their candidate, but the FISA issue has reignited skepticism among major bloggers, who had largely pushed aside doubts about Obama when Edwards, their favored candidate, ended his bid in February.
Obama's post-partisan persona hasn't always meshed so well with the noisy and contentious Netroots, and his rise to prominence has come without their full-throated support. He told reporters in February that he doesn't read blogs and has long been viewed as cool to the Netroots - a notion that the candidate's new media director, Joe Rospars, disputed this week at the Personal Democracy Forum in New York, saying Obama was a favorite of the readers of the major bloggers.
Either way, the Netroots eventually took Obama's side against Clinton, and some came to view him as a champion of progressive causes.
His stance on the FISA bill, however, has brought Obama back down to earth, in part because the liberal blogosphere cares more about civil liberties than many of the other traditional issues that have long dominated the Democratic agenda. While the mainstream media fixated on Obama's decision to opt out of the public financing system - and newspaper editorial boards eviscerated him - the Netroots commended Obama for showing political savvy. After all, the readers of liberal blogs are many of the small donors who gave Obama reason to reject public financing.
FISA, however, was different. Many of the most popular progressive blogs built their following by mining anger toward President Bush, the Iraq war and what bloggers view as his disregard of the Constitution and the civil liberties guaranteed by it. By granting immunity to telecom companies, civil courts will likely dismiss lawsuits that might unearth details about the administration's activities, eliminating an opportunity to hold Bush accountable.
"It angers the blogosphere to its core," said Jane Hamsher, founder of the popular blog Firedoglake.com. "We want to be able to know: What did you do? If we can get that information, we can make sure they don't do that again. We can get the public engaged."
Obama's decision to support the bill with the immunity provision was not surprising, she said. Republicans frame critics of such security measures as soft on terrorism, and the presumptive Democratic nominee probably does not want it used against him.
"[A] lot of people tried to convince themselves that he was a progressive hero, and I think they were disappointed," Hamsher said. "You can feel a real shift in the zeitgeist online."
Still, the disillusionment goes only so far. The liberal blogosphere's most recognizable name, Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, founder of Daily Kos, said Monday on MSNBC's "Countdown With Keith Olbermann": "Let's be honest, it is either Obama or John McCain. So we really don't have much of a choice."
At stake for Obama in the FISA vote is the intensity of support for Obama, Moulitsas said.
"I don't want to hear him talk about leadership. I don't want to hear him talk about defending the Constitution. I want to see him do it," he said. "If he does, it will increase the intensity and level of support he gets from base Democrats. If he doesn't, we may worry he is just another one of these spineless Democrats who are more afraid of controversy in doing the right thing than they are in actually doing the right thing."
Already, Blue America PAC, a liberal online fundraising group, says it has raised more than $320,000 to fund activities "holding our elected representatives responsible for rubber-stamping the most grievous aspects of the Bush Regime's agenda."
MoveOn.org has called upon its members to pressure Obama to "keep his word" and block the bill. Obama gave no indication that he would support a filibuster, and a press aide did not respond to requests for clarification on this point.
The Senate overwhelmingly rejected the filibuster attempt Wednesday, voting 80-15 to end debate and move to final passage Thursday. Obama, who was not present for Wednesday's test vote, is expected to vote for an amendment stripping out the immunity provision. But even if the effort fails, as it has in the past, Obama would likely back the underlying bill.
By taking this position, Obama is threading the needle between Republican charges that he is weak on security and the desires of the Democratic base. To allay critics' claims that he is giving a pass to the Bush administration, Obama aides pointed to a provision in the bill that requires an inspector general's review of the surveillance program.
"It is not all that I would want," Obama said of the legislation, which was negotiated by congressional leaders of both parties. "But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence-collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise but do so with a firm pledge that, as president, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the inspectors general and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives - and the liberty - of the American people."
Obama's statement was viewed as a reversal from a pledge last year to oppose any bill with retroactive immunity for telecom companies.
But Obama told reporters Wednesday that the bill has changed from when that pledge was made, saying the latest version satisfied several of his concerns.
Dan Gerstein, a New York political consultant and former longtime aide to Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.), said Obama now needs to stand by his support of the bill, given Republican efforts to brand Obama as a "reflexive, partisan liberal." "This is really an important initial test for Obama," he said.
"People will be looking at this to see whether he has the strength and independence to stand up to his friends and a significant support base and say, 'I think this is right, and I am going to hold firm in my position.'"
The Netroots will be watching Thursday as the Senate considers the bill - and whether Obama simply casts his vote or whether he takes a strong stand in a floor speech.
"The fear out there is that Obama is going to fail to live up to expectations on key issues, and that reinforces the notion that 'uh-oh, we picked the wrong candidate,' when the focus should really be on the fact that the Bush administration broke the law with the help of private companies," said Warren Street, a blogger at the Blue Girl, Red State blog.
© 2008 Politico.com
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50 Comments so far
Show AllMy understanding is that headlines are produced by editors or other dubious third parties, and not by the writers. They often seem deliberately inaccurate and sensational, even apart from atrocious spelling and grammar errors.
Whether ignoramus or instigator, or something in between, I notice that headlines on stories about the progressive blowback to Obama's latest anti-progressive stances tend to use terms like "jilted" or "miffed" to characterize the righteous rage and disappointment Obama is eliciting.
Gee, you don't suppose that the headline editors are deliberately being condescending, and trivializing the anti-Obama backlash.
Why not "Netroots Furious..."? Perhaps that's not wholly accurate, but at least it doesn't make those of us affronted and disgusted by Obama's moonwalking stage right sound like teenagers upset over not being asked to the prom.
Wake up netroots and bright-eyed Progressive activists: these Democrats, such as Obama, are not our friends. We may (and should) vote for them in swing states to prevent a greater evil, but we must not get sucked in emotionally and over-identify with these "champions" of "change."
The two-party political process and the elite punditocracy-dominated (a.k.a. "inside the beltway-dominated") political discussion make meaningul debate on important issues like the FISA bill next to impossible. Obama fears being tarred with the "weak on defense" label should he follow through with his promise and convictions and filibuster the (very bad) FISA bill. So he courts independents by voting for it (while trying to cover himself for his base by voting for the amendment that does't pass that would have stripped Big Telecom immunity). At the end of the day Obama is a Dem politician who sell us down the river piece by piece when he deems it necessary because he knows we have nowhere else to go. What were you expecting, participatory democracy?
I'm glad that Obama will not take public money. Now he can raise as much as he needs to fight the neo-cons with their endless "swift boat" funding!
re Little Brother 12:39pm
good point. "furious" would be a perfect word to describe the reactions of some of us. i hope "disillusioned" describes some of obama's more ardent supporters, especially among our youth, but i fear that "apathetic and alienated" might start climbing in the ratings.
(i wish i could take credit for it, but it was another CD poster who suggested this campaign slogan for the democrat du jour: "obama---let's be disappointed by somebody new!")
Josh @ 12:43 suggests voting Duh in swing states, which sounds an awful lot like their cynical totting up of yea and nay votes on contentious bills so that they can then say "we tried but..."
let's take a stand on principle to withhold our votes from those who take them for granted, and stick to it. obviously we can't compete with the rentier class when appealing to politicians' greed, but we can, and for the sake of everything we hold dear, MUST, motivate them through fear of electoral defeat.
Obama is a politician. This should not be a pejorative word but it is. And, progressives are as likely as any to allow themselves to be blinded by "charisma" and the "audacity" of a hopeful fellow like Obama. When people get over the cult of celebrity and stop being so enamored with foolish notions of LEADERSHIP, people working democratically might eventually get control of this mock democracy.
What seems to be the problem is that Obama is falling for the old right wing ploy of accusing Dems of being weak on terrorism. So what does he do? He supports giving the warrantless wiretapping bill instead of standing up for what is Constitutionally right. And this, from a Constitutional lawyer, to boot!
On top of that, he supports the death penalty for child rape, even though it's a known fact that 80% of child rape cases come from one's own family. How would a child take it if their father/mother/brother/sister/aunt/uncle/cousin were put to death? That could be even more psychologically damaging than the actual rape itself, especially if it was a parent or sibling.
So I see that Obama's trying to tack right in order to prevent attacks from the right by trying to act more like the right. That's been the fatal mistake of his Democratic nominee predecessors, who failed to gain the progressive vote in numbers that they would have gotten had they been actual progressives instead of "Republican Lites" like so many have been lately.
That we've given the right so much power as to completely emasculate the left to where candidates feel more and more compelled to act like them is to give them the victory. It's time for TRUE progressives to stand up, speak out and do so in such numbers as to not be ignored. Too many of us are silent when it comes to the critical issues. No more. Speak out. Do something. Forget e-mails and petitions. Direct face-to-face contact and phone calls is the only way to get things done. Let your voice be heard - in person.
I'm not feeling "jilted" -- I am f***ing enraged.
I hope we've all been continuing to contact the Obama Campaign to let them know how we feel about his stepping to the right.
Obama for America
P.O. Box 8102
Chicago, IL 60680
To reach the Campaign Headquarters by phone, please call: (866) 675-2008
contact form: http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2
In my opinion, he's already lost my vote, but I want to wait for the debates with McCain for a final decision.
Ah Green Party, how did I ever even consider abandoning you during this election?
It was predicted that Obama would tack right come the general election campaign, and he's certainly living up to that prediction, isn't he? The ink wasn't even dry on his "presumptive Democratic nominee" win when he made his kiss-ass speech to AIPAC. And it's been all down hill from there. When this all started, I was for Kucinich, but then settled for Obama as second choice. I've been so torn over Obama since Kucinich dropped out that I swear my Obama sticker has been on and off the back of my car 8 or 9 times. But now it's off. For good. And no more of my money is going to his campaign. I was willing to give him some leeway, understanding the difficulty of getting elected in this anything-but-progressive country, but he's talking like a fucking Republican at this point. So he's lost my (lukewarm) support. What will I do come November? Vote for McKinney perhaps. Or not at all. It's all a mirage anyway.
Obama's stance on immunity for the telecoms is proof of his pandering to big corporations. That has cost him my vote. His pandering to AIPAC too, not a good sign. He'll be toast without his base to support him anymore. Oh God, is there anyone we can vote for anymore? Don't answer that please, I know, Nader, McKinney, Ron Paul. Who among them has a chance though?
To paraphrase H. S. Thompson...
To be successful in government you have to screw your enemies but to be successful in elections you have to screw your friends.
I'm still high on Obama's 'hopiness' messages.
He'll choose Kucinich as VP and once president, will make everything alright again.
.
I'll say it again…
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2000.
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2004.
We NEED Ralph Nader as President in 2008.
Never before as we do now
http://www.votenader.org/index.html
.
"He broke faith,"
- No, he broke bread with Republicans.
"By taking this position, Obama is threading the needle between Republican charges that he is weak on security and the desires of the Democratic base."
- It's an either or proposition to win the most votes. What's right or moral is completely outside the equation, of course.
"MoveOn.org has called upon its members to pressure Obama to "keep his word" and block the bill."
- What word?
"It is not all that I would want,"
- We know, all you want is to win, period.
'I think this is right, and I am going to hold firm in my position.'"
- When it comes to holding firm on the reactionary, right wing positions, there should be no doubts about his strength.
"The fear out there is that Obama is going to fail to live up to expectations..."
- Ha! Now there's a funny one!
The Democrats will save us! Go Democrats! Go Obama!
NOW IS THE TIME FOR SANITY AND A REALITY CHECK!
The Presidential Election in November is NO place to stage a protest, as that should be confined to the primary contest. Once the primary is over and nominees are chosen, getting behind your candidate and WINNING is what it's all about.
Even knuckle-dragging right-wing crazies like James Dobson, from Focus (FUBAR) on the Family, know this. After vowing that he would never vote for McCain during the primary, even he has taken to smearing Obama in the hopes of pulling his base together - They know how to win elections, a lesson yet to be learned by Liberal Democrats!
We (liberal progressives), have worked very hard over the last six years to change the political landscape in Washington, and guess what - IT'S WORKING! We have been sliding down the mountainside with no limbs to grab or footholds to slow our descent, while the Fascist enablers in the Republican party held all the levers of power in the House, Senate and the White House. They passed worse legislation after bad legislation and stuffed the judicial system with Neo-Fascist right-wing hack judges in the mold of Tony "The Skunk" Scalia.
We finally landed on a ledge after the 2006 elections, when the Republicans snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with a lot of bad press about Iraq and a Republican Congressional homosexual page-diddling cover up, after the fix was already in place on the voting machine count. The Democrats won enough photo-finish elections to regain control of the Senate and House by razor-thin margins.
In the process, we managed to throw some scum-sucking pigs out of the party - Joe Lieberman comes to mind, and we have removed a few more of the DINOs in the 2008 primarys. This is how it is done, and how it is WON - incrementally! One step at a time, one progressive candidate elected after another, until we own the party and set a new progressive agenda. You can't change everything and get everything you want in one fell swoop, it takes time and organization.
What we need to do right now, is elect Barack Obama in a landslide mandate with long coat-tails that will sweep many new progressive Democrats into the Senate and House. Then we can change from holding hearings about Republican criminality, to passing meaningful legislation for ordinary Americans, which will never happen with a Republican president, even if we have a veto-proof majority in both houses. And they will still stack the court with Fascist judges and fill all the government agencies, OSHA, FDA, NASA, FEMA, USDA, CIA, FBI and all the rest, with right-wing cronies.
No, NOW IS THE TIME to join together and drop the boot-heel on the wriggling Republican WORMS, and squash them into the ground, scoop up the remains, and toss them into the trash-bin of history. You can't do this by bad-mouthing your own candidate - This is falling right into the corporate media trap, and setting yourself up for defeat in November.
We have some good people in the Senate determined to stop the FISA bill, Feingold, Dodd and others. Give Barack some latitude to attract some swing-Republican and centrist independent voters with his rhetoric on this bill, as his vote will not decide this issue. This is what politics is all about. Sometimes you have to shut-up, hold your nose and do what is not perfect, but what is best! Any third party vote in November is a vote for Insane Grampy McSame.
Now, having said all that, let me tell you how you can hold the Democrats feet to the fire, and at the same time, create a viable third party, the Green Party. It would take a massive amount of organizing and cooperation, but it could be done, and I would love to be able to vote for progressive people like Cynthia McKinney and even Ralph Nader knowing that my vote was not putting Bush III in the White House.
First of all you would have to organize all the progressive outlets on a common thread and around a common mission. By progressive outlets I mean websites, news sources, blogs, radio and podcasts, and print media. I'm talking about MoveOn, CommonDreams, TruthOut, BuzzFlash, DailyKos, HuffPost, AirAmerica, NovaM, DemocracyNow, The Nation, Mother Jones and all the rest! I'm talking about an Internet Progressive Revolution here! This can't be done on a piecemeal basis!
And here is the mission -
Get every single progressive Democratic voter to change their registration from Democrat to Green. Even if we got eveyone to do this, we would not have enough to win an election, so they can, and still should, vote Democratic in November, but we would be well positioned to make demands on the new Democratic power structure by threatening them with mass losses in the 2010 elections for the House and Senate, as the entire House stands for re-election every two years, along with one third of the Senate.
By 2010, we could make the Green Party a viable alternative if the threat is not enough, and we should still need it. I would hope that we don't need it, as the time available to make a course correction to save this country, and this world, is growing very, very short. We are in that proverbial quandary of an irresistable force on a collision course with an immovable object, and it ain't gonna be pretty! The perfect storm of financial and economic failure, war without end, global warming, peak oil, food shortages, water shortages, resource depletion and dying oceans is bearing down on us at breakneck speed and the ship's crew is asleep-at-the-helm!
Mike B. in SC
We are getting hearings and investigations that would never have happened under Republican control. Some truth is getting out now. The Senate requires 60 votes for cloture and two thirds to squash a veto from Shrub. The republicans have set a record on filibustering legislation since the Dems gained control, but at least we're running the show and chairing the committees.
While I would love to see an impeachment of the Neo-Fascists, it has zero chance of success. It takes a two thirds vote in the Senate to convict, and we wouldn't even be able to get the one half that are supposed to be Democrats to vote for conviction, no matter how convincing the evidence. Better that we let Vincent Bugliosi prosecute him for murder after he leaves office.
We have worked very hard to get real progressive candidates like Donna Edwards to replace beltway-insider Democrats in the primaries in Maryland and other states. They are ready to start changing things in 2009 if elected, but if people turn away from Obama in the general election in November, all that work will be for nothing. We need people to vote a straight Dem ticket.
By the way,I didn't find Hillary's name on this list, can you? I wonder how she will vote on this.
"In the end, only 15 U.S. Senators were willing to resort to procedural tactics as a last ditch effort to hold up the legislation. The list of those who voted against cloture included:
Joseph Biden, DE Barbara Boxer, CA Sherrod Brown, OH Maria Cantwell, WA Chris Dodd, CT Dick Durbin, IL Russ Feingold, WI Tom Harkin, IA John Kerry, MA Frank Lautenberg, NJ Patrick Leahy, VT Robert Menendez, NJ Bernie Sanders, VT Chuck Schumer, NY Ron Wyden, OR
For the White House and the majority of the Senate, the FISA compromise has been hailed as a political breakthrough. "I think the White House got a better deal than even they had hoped to get," Republican Sen. Kit Bond told the New York Times.
Sen. Barack Obama, a reluctant supporter of the bill, said he would work to strip telecom immunity from its language. However, he added, "My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people."
MikeBinSC June 26th, 2008 4:00 pm
"What we need to do right now, is elect Barack Obama in a landslide mandate..."
Hogwash. Why?
Tailcap,
Because it will give him the courage and backing to do what he knows is right, and it will send a message to the rest of the world that Americans are as ready for change, as they are ready to see us change.
If the progressives want a viable third party, and I would love to see one in the Green Party, they must build it. I see no evidence of a concerted effort to make it happen, at least not the kind of effort I spoke of at the end of my first comment here.
If you want revolutionary change, make it happen on the internet! It is the only avenue of change left to us now!
I do not believe that America and the rest of the world can survive Bush III. That scenario must be stopped now!
Rich M,
If you want to stage a peaceful protest at a nuclear power plant in your neighborhood, that is ok. But, you don't want to cause a meltdown to prove your point!
I've been a registered Democrat for 30 years. If (when) this FISA bill is passed, I am changing my registration to Independent. I can not support a party that does not support the Constitution.
If the Telecomms committed no crime, they need no immunity. If they helped Bush violate our fouth ammendment rights, they should be prosecuted.
Once again, Dems have failed to frame the argument correctly - they let Reps fatuously frame it is a "Security Issue" instead of "Rule of Law" and Constitution.
In this case the old Woordrow Wilson quote comes into play -- "Political platforms are what candidates run on -- and then run from once they are elected." Political office is never about sitting with anything -- it's always about running -- usually from the truth.
MikeBinSC June 26th, 2008 4:11 pm
Sorry Mike, you actually made me laugh out loud. Your statement about electing Obama because: "it will send a message to the rest of the world that Americans are as ready for change,.." Is laughable. No offense, I have no doubts as your good intentions.
The change will be from a bald, old, pro-establishment, status-quo, pro-war, pro-big business White male Republican to a young, pro-establishment, status-quo, pro-war, pro-big business Black male Democrat-Republican. The policies we care about , like war and our privacy will pretty much remain the same. I mean, you can see the man for what he is, can't you?
The sick part is that in America the political spectrum is so narrow and to the right that Obama is being called a "liberal" by right-wingnuts and is supposedly one of the most "liberal" Senators of all. Now that would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Has Obama, in the Senate (or any place else), actually opposed any policy of George W. Bush? Did he vote not to continue funding the illegal war and occupation of Iraq? Did he oppose spying on Americans? He talks nicely, but votes in the other direction. At least McCain votes for what he says he stands for. Because of thast, I cannot vote for him. But I cannot vote for Obama either, because he doesn't seem to know what he's doing or what he thinks. Nice speeches don't demonstrate leadership. There's no one worth a vote in the coming election, no one.
In case noone noticed, the Dumbocrats could still field a 'real' candidate (not a cardboard cutout).
If they had any sense, they would draft someone with integrity ( what a concept) if any exist - after all Obama still is NOT the official candidate until the convention says so.
But they won't!
"Netroots Feel Jilted by Obama's FISA Stand"
Ha, ha, ha....This is hilarious! This is kind of like headlining: "Blacks Feel Jilted by KKK." Carrie, what planet have you been on lately? Netroots, my dear, are like so onto both major parties. We know and have known for years that the Dems are no more capable of standing up for us than the Repubs. Obama is just another politico Show Biz joke, with more Biz than Show. He's playing the so-called "progressives" the same way LBJ played them in the Sixties. They make it look like they have no plans for a draft and no plans for war. Then soon as they get into office, right on queue, here comes another false flag operation and they get "dragged kicking and screaming" into another major war that goes on and on and on...
Look, Obama is just another Puppet. And by the way, the NSA has been spying on us like forever. Only lately they are letting on to it just to let you know that they are the Masters and you are the slaves: they get to know all your secrets while they hide behind National Security. Get used to it slave (Obama already has). Anybody who seriously thinks that Obama is somehow for people like us has not been paying attention to politics in a long, long time.
Netroots feel JILTED by Obama's FISA stand? Oh my goodness. Wake up, Carrie. And one more clue. The Internet, home of Netroots, was developed by DARPA, not those so-called "revolutionaries" of Silicon Valley. They were little more than duped tools (programmers) baited into their cubicles with promises of One World and "participative democracy" (and now the ballot boxes are privatized black boxes sold to us by guess-who). They only commercialized the already existing Internet, luring the masses into The Matrix (www.sillyConValley.net). But check it out; the Internet keeps us all here in cyberspace. Back in the Sixties we were crawling all over the White House lawn by the hundreds of thousands and marching up and down the streets of New York and San Francisco and shutting down entire campuses. We forced change with our bodies -- not just our opinions -- throwing our "bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus; and you've got to make it stop" (Mario Savio, UC Berkeley, 1964, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FPG1WfcJRo).
Jilted by Obama? We've been jilted by the entire Establishment.
Donkeyman!
It is obvious, Obama does not understand the freedoms of the constitution, and that violators of the law should be prosecuted. strange for a LAwyer?
not to mention a candidate for the head office in this land, I'm disapppointed, and our freedom is not under attach by terrorist, but by our so-called leaders.
merryoldsoul, do you not know that Obama is not only a lawyer, but has been a professor of Constitutional Law? Eek! :mad:
http://tinyurl.com/ysj582
Glenn Greenwald on Keith Olbermann's defense of Obama:
"What's much more notable is Olbermann's full-scale reversal on how he talks about these measures now that Obama — rather than George Bush — supports them. On an almost nightly basis, Olbermann mocks Congressional Democrats as being weak and complicit for failing to stand up to Bush lawbreaking; now that Obama does it, it's proof that Obama won't "cower." Grave warning on Olbermann's show that telecom amnesty and FISA revisions were hallmarks of Bush Fascism instantaneously transformed into a celebration that Obama, by supporting the same things, was leading a courageous, centrist crusade in defense of our Constitution.
Is that really what anyone wants — transferring blind devotion from George Bush to Barack Obama?….
The real danger is that those who defend Obama the Candidate no matter what he does are likely to defend Obama the President no matter what he does, too. If we learn in 2009 that Obama has invoked his claimed Article II powers to spy on Americans outside of even the new FISA law, are we going to hear from certain factions that he was justified in doing so to protect us; how it's a good, shrewd move to show he's a centrist and keep his approval ratings high so he can do all the Good things he wants to do for us; how it's different when Obama does it because we can trust him? It certainly looks that way. Those who spent the last five years mauling Bush for "shredding the Constitution" and approving of lawbreaking — only to then praise Obama for supporting a bill that endorses and protects all of that — are displaying exactly the type of blind reverence that is more dangerous than any one political leader could ever be."
Nahhh Obama supporters? Open your eyes. don't be an ideolog, don't be fooled.
Obama represent the Complicit Party. Almost everything Bush has done in the last 8 years would not have been possible without the support of the Complicit Party.
What has Obama done to hold Bush accountable for his war crimes? NOTHING.
What has Obama done to stop funding the war? NOTHING
What has Obama done to stop one-sides support of Israel's racist and colonial policies? NOTHING.
SO, why should anyone be surprised now?
VOTE ANYONE BUT THE TWO PARTIES. START CREATING A REAL ALTERNATIVE.
Yea, and I would like the Obama supporter to please explain why it is that Sen. Obama approves of Bush and the Telecoms breaking the law and getting retroactive immunity. Obama approves of making the illegal legal if large multi-billion $ corporations are involved..
Can I do that? Can I go rob a bank and be granted immunity if I split the loot with the Democratic-Republicans? Does anyone know? Is it legal? What if it's a lot of money?
tailcap, did you read this excerpt in my earlier comment -
"Sen. Barack Obama, a reluctant supporter of the bill, said he would work to strip telecom immunity from its language. However, he added, "My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people."
VAGreen, right on.
I always suspected that Olbermann was a plant. They let him on TV because he's totally pro-Establishment. He is as much Establishment as Rush, Hannity, and that ilk. They suck you in by siding with you, winning your heart by heroically attacking the Boogie Man. Then they come out and support the New Boogie Man (Lately-Come-Savior). But we know the drill. They're all owned by the global bankers and power brokers.
We either grow up and build our own community or we're hosed. Meanwhile, buy gold (noticed the sinking dollar and DOW lately?).
Nannie is correct: we need Ralph Nader as president.
MikeBinSC June 26th, 2008 11:02 pm
Thanks Mike, I did read it. I just don't believe anything Obama has to say. I never did. He is slowly revealing himself to be precisely the type of craven politician I saw him as from the beginning.
I don't care how he weasels about voting to grant immunity to law breakers, supported the war and plans to continue it and hasn't said anything about impeaching Bush. He is a complete ZERO on the things I care about.
Politicians like Obama will say anything, do anything, including selling out his good friend and spiritual adviser of 20 years if he thinks it will get into the WH. Sorry Mike, I just don't buy it.
Mike, I will be here if he does get elected saying, "I told you so" in four years when he sells out even more, attacks Iran and keeps many 10s if not 100s of thousands of troops in Iraq to prop up a colonial puppet government in order to continue the rape and pluder of Iraq and the murderous destruction of innocent people.
From his website:
"He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda."
We all know this is pure bullshit because al Qaeda isn't leaving. What this means is we stay there until we suck every last drop of oil out of her. To believe otherwise is to delude yourself. The troops need to stay so Obama can have them carry out their "targeted" strikes which always seem to get our troops killed along with many an innocent child looking out the window. A vote a Democrat or a Republican is immoral based on their record. Suit yourself.
Obama is part and parcel of the establishment. He is supported and backed by the powers that be because he puts a minority's face on imperialism. That's what's needed now, a new face, darker, younger, but in the tradition of Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice. Oreos.
Tailcap, do you really think an Oreo would be a member of Rev. Wright's church for 20 years?
Obama understands oppression!
Not Jilted. Deceived, then shit on.
Let the Obama people know how you feel LINK. I did. While the FISA bill decision hasn't changed my vote, it has shaken it...
Flood the inbox.
"I'm still high on Obama's 'hopiness' messages.
He'll choose Kucinich as VP and once president, will make everything alright again."
I wish. Won't ever happen. Ever. Kucinich is considered far too left of center for Obama to even remotely consider him. Look how far he's moving toward the center and away from the left. He's basically abandoning progressivism and adopting centrism as his political stance, just like so many other Dems have done before him. Basically, the REAL Democrats are so afraid of their shadows that they don't dare remain liberal in their political stands. The Republicans have so successfully used fear as a tactic and accusations of weakness against Democrats that they've been forced to tack toward the center instead of being REAL Democrats.
It's a shame that Democrats can't regain their lost spine. I predict that Lieberman or some other more conservative Democrat will be chosen as Obama's running mate in order to attract independents and Republicans.
And so it goes. Once again, we've been sold downriver for the sake of political expediency.
"Obama is part and parcel of the establishment. He is supported and backed by the powers that be because he puts a minority's face on imperialism. That's what's needed now, a new face, darker, younger, but in the tradition of Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice. Oreos."
My, is that ever a racist sentiment! Oreos. Black on the outside, white on the inside. Typical pejorative for someone who "acts white" but is black. As in, uppity black person. How dare they "act white".
Sheesh, just goes to show how much race is still going to be a big factor in this Presidential campaign.
What follows is a letter I sent to the Obama campaign via the comment section on their website, barackobama.com. I urge everyone to drop a line, let that campaign know how we feel:
Dear Campaign managers:
I'd like to see some stronger stances from your campaign.
Iraq is NOT a war - it is an illegal OCCUPATION teetering on holocaust.
Thanks to Bush, Cheney, Rice and Bremer there are now some 180,000 private contractors in Iraq - operating completely above the law. They should be held accountable!
And, according to Naomi Klein's Rolling Stone article: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20797485/chinas_allseeing_eye
America is teetering toward Fascism as well.
With these anti-American trends, why would you support government surveillance by backing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act -- the FISA bill?
Your campaign needs to address these issues if you want to lead America, if you want to be relevant to those who might just vote this time around. The people already know what's going on, join us.
Please be change and don't embrace the anti-American behaviors of the past administration. Speak of the illegality of this war and do not support stronger surveillance laws.
Thank you for your time and consideration,
Lisa Wells
Leesak,
Good letter Lisa. More People Should follow your lead and tell Obama what we expect and demand from him.
Mike, don't worry about us disaffected progressive, Dem-hating Obama bashers.. I heard this morning that 80% of people that consider themselves liberals will vote for Obama, as well as 15% of conservatives. It's a snap, President Obama!
I guess the mainstream considers people like me an extreme-left wingnut, lunatic-fringe wacko. I see myself as an anti-imperialist, anti-war progressive who opposes Democrats for continuing the war/occupation. Nowadays that IS NUTS!
IT'S ALL ABOUT ORGANIZATION
Whining in your cubicle, which is what we do here at CD, is just not going to get it done!
The plan below is the only way progressives can hold the Democrats feet to the fire, and at the same time, create a viable third party, the Green Party, and make the progressive voice heard. It would take a massive amount of organizing and cooperation, but it could be done, and I would love to be able to vote for progressive people like Cynthia McKinney and even Ralph Nader knowing that my vote was not putting Bush III in the White House.
First of all you would have to organize all the progressive outlets on a common thread and around a common mission. By progressive outlets I mean websites, news sources, blogs, radio and podcasts, and print media. I'm talking about MoveOn, CommonDreams, TruthOut, BuzzFlash, DailyKos, HuffPost, AirAmerica, NovaM, DemocracyNow, The Nation, Mother Jones and all the rest! I'm talking about an Internet Progressive Revolution here! This can't be done on a piecemeal basis!
And here is the mission -
Get every single progressive Democratic voter to change their registration from Democrat to Green. Even if we got eveyone to do this, we would not have enough to win an election, so they can, and still should, vote Democratic in November, but we would be well positioned to make demands on the new Democratic power structure by threatening them with mass losses in the 2010 elections for the House and Senate, as the entire House stands for re-election every two years, along with one third of the Senate.
By 2010, we could make the Green Party a viable alternative if the threat is not enough, and should we still need it. I would hope that we don't need it, as the time available to make a course correction to save this country, and this world, is growing very, very short. We are in that proverbial quandary of an irresistable force on a collision course with an immovable object, and it ain't gonna be pretty! The perfect storm of financial and economic failure, war without end, global warming, peak oil, food shortages, water shortages, resource depletion and dying oceans is bearing down on us at breakneck speed and the ship's crew is asleep-at-the-helm!
Mike B. in SC
SallyUUKent, I don't think Tailcap was being racist using the term "Oreo" in the comment, at least I hope not. Terms like "Oreo" and "Uncle Tom" are often used by white people and people of color to describe one who has sold out, or bought into the Neo-Fascist core beliefs. I just think Tailcap is wrong about Obama. You couldn't sit through 20 years of sermons from Reverend Wright and maintain that mindset. However, Kindasleazy Rice and Uncle Clarence Thomas are OREOs with DOUBLESTUFF!
Mike, thanks for that. My great, great, great, grandmother was Black. I have many Black friends which I consider my brothers and sisters. My children have Black friends. My oldest son's best friend is Black. I am absolutely not a racist. If I were I would be against my own heritage.