The media is the primary reason. But there is another
very big difference between the social/political movements of the 1910's, 1930's, 1960's and today's political movement. For the first time in the long history of America's progressive movement, the poor have been shut out. In every successful social/political movement, the poor (working class AND unemployed)have been the foot-soldiers, so to speak, the masses who moved ahead in spite of government's best efforts to silence them. I guess even US progressives got Reaganized on this issue, shunned the poor, and effectively exiled them from the public arena.

Dear Future Archaeologist (who finds this note buried under the remains of our former industrialized city),

We're sorry. We fucked up. Industrialization was so much fun, at least in the short run. We fast laned, fast fooded, bargain shopped, and fastly got deluded. Sorry we left the place worse off then we found it, we just didn't have time to remedy the polluted. We got scared and built ICBM's. Watch where you step, it's still radioactive for the next 400 millennium.

Yours truly,
The Brainwashed Generation

PS. Please print and redistribute at your local decimation.

What if simultaneously we all sue a handful of the key warmonger corporations? Each citizen brings a lawsuit. Like tens of thousands of lawsuits directed against Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, BushCo.. etc. Wouldn't they at least have to respond? Wouldn't it max out their ability to respond- tying them up in legal fees and legal staff? Maybe a couple lawsuits will actually make their way through the system to success? But at least it would hit these monsters with a massive battle of defending themselves in every court across the country. It costs what, $60 to serve a subpeina... and a half day off work? Strength in numbers- and the expense and slowness of the legal system.

J D Smith June 28th, 2008 1:03 pm
Fine post, thanks for the link.

"And the occupation should be pay-as-you-go. No sloughing the costs off onto our grandchildren."

Works for me! That would darn sure slow the little people down in Washington.

"I almost never met a Vietnam vet who wasn't against the war (in the 70s) Of course, I hung out in progressive circles even then."

I was hanging out elsewhere but not many of the guys I was there with were for it and very few of the Vets I met after coming back were for it either.

The Vets that were wearing their hats over there (ie) combat vets as opposed to someone just in country, you'd find we'd be at least 98% against it.

"Soldiers in Revolt"
Sorry, never saw it. All I can say is that I didn't see that type of thing. Maybe it was after 70? Or it could be different from my area.

Lets just hope that this is the last time we have to address this type of waste.

Pax

One possible strategy, which is probably too long term to end this war, but could end the next if we get moving on it:

Local campaigns for greater democracy which seek to remove participation of our towns and cities from wars by removing power from elected officials and placing it in our hands.

This is a strategy which builds from the ideals of America and is therefore something people will get behind, but infused with progressive politics which could bring us to real solutions to the problems that most people simply whine about.

From jususofjonesboro: "For the Republicans, this war is and has been a hugely successful business venture. The anti-war folks need to figure out how to make waging wars less profitable for them."

From stanwix: "Look, the powers that be have an enormous stake in maintaining the status quo, and they have figured out that they can safely ignore large and small peace demonstrations. We are essentially harmless as far as they are concerned. We represent no threat whatever."

Stanwix does not identify "the powers that be"

From andersdl: "It doesn't matter how many people march as long as the corporations that profit from war own most US Senators and Congressional representatives, and the US electorate continues to vote for these people.

As long as most of the US electorate continues to respond favorably to marketers' fear and greed tactics, the corporations will continue to win."

From Stargeezer: "I long for every person involved with an issue to press forward with all possible dispatch to think of new ways to bring success over the Powers That Be and bring a desperately needed change to the country we all love!"

From NativeSon: "DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN A WAR OF AGGRESSION IN ANY MANNER. . . . . . . . .ALL WARS OF AGGRESSION ARE ILLEGAL. . . . . . . "

From jsc: "All ideas presented here are valid; role of MSM, etc. BUT YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE WHAT YOU DO, NOT WHAT OTHERS DO. . . . . . . . . . Finally, WHAT IS THE GOAL? Is it to get us out of Iraq, (and put us where?), change foreign policy in general, or demilitarize before we are devoured completely? Clarifying the goal might increase the movement." edited and emphasis (CAPS) added. JD

From r jackowski: "The Iraq war, which we started in 1991, has been a magnificent success for corporations and Capitalism. Just follow the money. War, death, destruction and weapons are the life-blood of the U$A. Making war is a lot more profitable than making widgets.

Don't misunderstand my point of view. I am one who was arrested and put on Trial for protesting the war. BUT, until people start opposing ALL parts of the war machine, including those who work for corporations involved in weaponry and the troops, wars will continue."

From Ephraim: ""War is the health of the state."–Randolph Bourne. It was true in 1917, it's true now. And when we have a fully militarized corporate state, as we do, then the health of the corporations is all that matters. The "war" (any war, anywhere, all the time) will continue into perpetuity so long as we are happy with capitalism and conveniently ignore its consequences. Obama is as focussed on maintaining the health of the corporate state as McCain is, as Hillary is, as all the rest of the criminal ring in Washington is; therefore, we cannot rid ourselves of war, anti-war movement or not. Since it's mostly "not" these tedious days, we're stuck with it, stuck with bitching and blogging about it to no meaningful purpose, like mice on a cage wheel. We're smart enough to know how terrible and absurd war is, but we're too stupid to know how to end it, once and for all. Alas, we're just too fucking stupid to live, it often seems."

From boy howdy: "Just what is the leverage that street protest conveys? How are we to organize protests that bring out tens of millions? Bush and the Republicans and the Democrats ignore huge protests. The sorry fact of the matter is that the Congress is infested with hawks who are put in office by hawkish constituents, evidently. All these polls say 70% of the people want out of Iraq, so November should bring that proportion of doves to Congress. If the hawks up for election come back in the next term, then we've got to forget about the polls.

I believe boycott is the only really effective means of influencing policy. But serious boycott, sustained boycott, entails readjusting our habits. The more we develop a viable, attractive alternative style, the more peace-hungry people will join us.

How can we boycott? With vibrant neighborhood communities. We entertain ourselves, feed ourselves, heal and support each other. And stay put. As a result we consume much less energy."

From jcrumb: "very long but very to-the-point – please page back up and read it again. JD"

FOR tailcap: Add http://www.fas.org/man/crs/crs_931007.htm

MY COMMENTS/DISCUSSION:

Undo 1913!

That's when the grand scheme for privatizing the profits of war while socializing the costs was enacted by a purchased - stupid - unaware congress (take your pick). I would select all three.

The mechanism(s) enacted were the Federal Reserve Act and the 16th amendment. Since that time money for war has been borrowed and never repaid – but the interest IS paid. Our national debt is basically the money borrowed to "KILL THE ENEMY".

If you can find the figures, compare individual income taxes collected to the interest on the national debt.

As suggested above, a massive boycott is the only thing to get the attention of "the powers that be". Members of congress and the white house are not included. They are, however, the conduit through which the declaration of massive boycott should be funneled.

Write, as opposed to emailing, both your senators and your congressman and the white house if you please. Tell them, in your own words, that until such time as the means (the 1913 actions identified above) for massive foreign wars of aggression are undone you plan to limit your consumption to necessities. Include a statememt that you plan to actively encourage similar actions by those with whom you have influence.

Remember, each $ you spend is spent again and again up to approximately seven times. Each time it increases the amount of gross taxable income and you violate NativeSon's "DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN A WAR OF AGGRESSION IN ANY MANNER. . ." . The taxes make paying the national debt interest possible thereby continuing the possibility of borrowing more.

If you participate in the boycott, the worst thing that can happen is you will have more money than you are used to. Pay off any accumulated debt – also a good thing. One more thing: You can count on having your address added to the applicable lists of possible donors to the next re-selection cycle.

Americans are not affected by the occupation. That is true. But supporting the draft to kill more Americans is a bizarre way to go about waking them up. Even with the draft, there will be large sections of the population without a direct connection.

A better way is one I proposed before. All TV must be Iraq news, all the time. And the occupation should be pay-as-you-go. No sloughing the costs off onto our grandchildren.
http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2007/11/making-americans-pay-modest-proposal.html

Thomas More, I got my info from a book I read. Soldiers in Revolt, by David Cortright.Plus, I almost never met a Vietnam vet who wasn't against the war (in the 70s) Of course, I hung out in progressive circles even then.

I recall Noam Chomsky saying that the current Iraq antiwar protests responded quickly - even acting before the attack - and created a mass of people that, in contrast, took many years to build with the Vietnam war.

I don't agree that the protest movement is a failure at all. Polls are very low for the Bush administration. The antiwar movement got its message out despite the fact that corporate media, for the most part, will not cover public demonstrations.

Better organizing is always a good thing. I wonder how it can be done with the economic screws turned so tight on the public.

It's hard to say when the dam will burst. Here are a few reasons why I think there has been seemingly no movement of the politicians toward peace.

1. Most Democrats still fail to understand that their party supports the wars and occupations! Democrats did not sufficiently back candidates such as Kucinich who spoke directly to this issue. I suspect many Democrats think some economic benefits accrue from the wars (instead of senseless waste) and fall silent.

2. U.S. corporate media, unlike during the Vietnam war, will not show the daily devastation and dead bodies. They run footage of car chases and cats stuck in trees. The networks rarely even mention that wars are ongoing these days. Candidates who speak beyond the pale about U.S. foreign policy are excluded by the media. Unconstitutional actions go unnoted and political language is distorted, hiding the radical shift to the right.

3. Republicans long since closed ranks and became radical privateer ideologues. Filling corporate troughs (defense, oil industries, etc.) with public monies is the name of the game for them. The Democrats do much the same, and they vote with the Republicans against their constituents.

4. The military industrial complex has been institutionalized as a "normal" way of allocating federal dollars to the states.

5. Bush's global war on terror (with PATRIOT Act, domestic spying, etc.) is a domestic clamp-down effort that has strong bipartisan legislative support. It's class warfare, supported by Democratic and Republican legislators alike.

6. Former president Bill Clinton stocked the Supreme Court with rightward-tilting justices, joining with Bush-appointed rubber stampers.

7. The religious right moved into the picture during hard times to further confuse people about cause and effect. Otherworldly dogma replaces earthly political discussion. It's an old game - Christianity married to the state, from the time of the Holy Roman Empire and the emperor Constantine's "conversion." The lesson: Passivity in the face of unconscionable violence. While there are some antiwar Christians, they aren't organized like money-making businesses like the Christian right.

In the end, if the three branches defy the popular will, and elections are stage managed through corporate campaign contributions, there is little for the public to do except dry up the military recruits, withhold taxes, stop working (hard to do) and revolt.

"Where's the outrage? much less the coverage? much less even a mention?"

Did you ever consider that they weren't guilty? Why are you so willing to take the word of anyone that accuses the military of someting?

Why would you be outraged if charges were dismissed because the evidence was found to be false?

That said, I don't know what happened. The word in the Corp is it was a put up job by the reporter. But gossip isn't fact, so you may very well be right. The fact that no big deal has been made of it leads me to believe that they more than likely weren't guilty.

I just remember the Jena 6 reports that were so full of bull, I'm a bit skittish about reports like this.

How about organizing a mass withdrawal of everyones savings account at the same time? A little market turmoil perhaps? Put the money back in our own pockets.

from democracy now:

Haditha Massacre Victims' Kin Outraged as U.S. Marines Go Free
A U.S. military judge last week dismissed charges against another Marine connected to the massacre of twenty-four unarmed Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha. Of the eight Marines originally charged in the case, only one still faces prosecution. Criminal charges have been dismissed against six of the Marines and a seventh Marine was acquitted.

=========================================================

Where's the outrage? much less the coverage? much less even a mention?
=========================================================

susanparker June 27th, 2008 5:26 pm

I sure can't disagree with the fact that our country has regressed horribly under Bush. We should never let him leave Texas, we knew how bad he really was.

The Neocon extremists have been a disaster for America. Bill didn't help with NAFTA either.

I just disagree that we are that bad. Most people do care. Abnd they show it everywhere. We aren't nearly as disliked as advertised. We aren't the flavor of the month and with Dick Vader calling the shots, I'm not too crazy about us either right now. Its changing as we speak.

Guantanamo is hard to get a handle on for anyone. I don't know enough about it to be making a comment. But if there has been any torture there we will find out in the long run.

The Burmese government couldn't give a fiddle if the entire American population went out into the streets. They know there is no chance we will intervene.

Tibet, same thing. Although the Chinese might give us lip service.

"envied,much less invincible."

There is no doubt that most of the world envies our living standard...pop culture...a disgrace.

Invincible? Militarily, yes. Socially/culturally, no.

Clifford, your comments are absolutely right on the mark! I get so tired of office staff 'organizers' telling us that demonstrations don't work in their opinions.

What doesn't work are all these 'Peace' outfits run like small non-profit businesses. All they really do is stifle off activist organizing. They stifle grass root democracy and instill the idea that coming together doesn't add up to anything, just voting for Democratic Party Politicians does.

These paid staff losers like the author, Mathew Smucker, run from crowds and spend their time whining that nobody really wants to do anything, and that doing anything doesn't work anyway. We need to throw some of this 'leadership' into the unemployment line. It really cracked me up listening to Matthew whine about the 'lack of peace jobs' around. Get a grip, Dude!

There are too many of these 'peace jobs', not too little of them. A social movement on the go is not made up of more 'peace jobs' for people like Matthew Smuckers. He and these job holders are the bottleneck to building a Movement Against War.

Its about numbers. The government is scared of lots of people getting mobilized.

Some have mentioned they feel protests have failed because they were ignored by the big media. Back in the '60's the protests were ignored by the media just as much.
Or when they did cover the marches, the media wildly underestimated the crowds back then just as they do today. The larger demonstrations we build, the harder they are to ignore.

In frustration some protesters choose tactics that make it easy for themselves to be portrayed as "violent" by reporters. We have to carefully choose tactics that make it obvious that if there is any violence it comes from the police, not from the protesters. At this stage of the movement I feel we have to stress that our marches are legal and peaceful. We want to attract new people to come who have never been to a demonstration before. And we want them to feel comfortable enough to bring their kids.

I think 8 years of Bush's brand of morning in America where there was no poverty and there were no black people in evidence except for Condi and Colin has fostered American's worst "me and mine" tunnel vision...

oh wait, I can't hear you, the crowd demanding the immediate closure of Guantanamo is drowning out everything else ... and yesterday it was the crowds protesting Burma's despotic regieme, and the day before those protesting China's crackdown on Tibetans ... and the mass support for fair and human treatment for those detained by the INS ... and the ongoing hungerstriked again the death penalty ...

In my opinion, most folks don't care because they can't be bothered ...

For most Americans, this post-09/11 era may be their first experience with the fact that America is not universally loved, admired, envied,much less invincible.

I think we have regressed badly.

isherwood61 June 27th, 2008 2:59 pm

I think you may be right.

"I think there is more dissent in the ranks than we know but it has been carefully managed up until now."

Vets coming back are telling me that you are correct. Probably 18-24% of Marines in Iraq are not very happy about the way our mission there is being carried out. Most of the same % think it would be a good idea if we started preparing to withdraw now.

"Losing Republican seats in Congress this fall could change that reality."

True, but they may not lose as many as we thought. Cannon in Utah could be the tip of the iceberg. I know its popular to dismiss illegal immigration as a factor this year, but I don't believe it. Way too many people PO'd about it from a number of sides.

"There may be an opportunity for the movement and antiwar veterans to be even more effective in persuading the potential antiwar constituency precisely because they will not be seen as part of a counter culture."

I think you've got a key there.

...........................................

"I think a draft and higher casualties will stiffen resistance to the war which at this point is clearly not strong enough to end it."

I hope you are joking about using that.

susanparker June 27th, 2008 3:02 pm

"I think a lot of Americans really are pro-revenge, pro-"self-defense," actually extremely xenophobic, very aggressive, even hostile towards the rest of the world … and they are damn near sympathetic with the excuses used to justify torture and Guantanamo …"

I don't believe this for a moment. If Americans are anything for sure they aren't xenophobic. And The rest is problamatic for sure.

lisa3210's comments were well-taken.

I was the person who cajoled the CD readership to get to DC for the Cindy and Rev. Yearwood - led march to Conyers office. No takers, just ridicule. A rather large chunk of the US population lives within a day-trip's drive or Amtrak ride from DC, out of this about 150 turned up.

During the runup to and shortly after the start of the war, I had a lot of "liberal" friends who were sympathetic to the cause - none of them turned out to any protests - either local or in DC 4 hours away.

And make no mistake about it - UFPJ (and ANSWER, despite their flaws), were pretty successful at turning out poeple. The big thing that is different from the 1960 is media coverage. Nowadays, there is none. The gauntlet of protest that Bush ran on January 20, 2001, Multi-hundred-thousand turnouts in DC on January 2003, and Sept. 2005, A million or more in NYC on Feb 15, 2003 - it all get shoved down the memory hole.

Actually, we may not need a new "anti-war movement" so much as a "new" civil rights movement and/or human rights movement ...

I think a lot of Americans really are pro-revenge, pro-"self-defense," actually extremely xenophobic, very aggressive, even hostile towards the rest of the world ... and they are damn near sympathetic with the excuses used to justify torture and Guantanamo ... (I think this is part of the problem the pro-Palestinian movement faces -- the outrage works well with idealists and college student, not so well with average americans who identify with the Israeli citizenry and know nothing about their politics.)

I think issues of racism, income inequality, the prison industrial complex, the waste and fraud being tolerated by the military industrial complex, the near-slave conditions many "illegal" workers live under may be better organizing principals ...

America needs to clean it's own house ... as far as I can tell, many Americans genuinely blame the Iraqis for the war at this point... we're somehow "cleaning up after them" or "preventing a civil war"

We need a "people's party" but we cannot call it that ... of course.

Still no comments on AIPAC. No questions nothing. 96 Dem's in the house are calling for a Navel Blockade of IRAN and no one responds!!!! I will check back once more to see if anyone is even aware of AIPAC much less the harm they are doing to us and the world!!!! Peace Tom Spellman

To Thomas More:

I agree that the prowar/proBush constituency has shrunk, much like the prowar/proTruman constituency shrank during Korea. My point is that Bush and the Republicans have not yet been threatened from within their own ranks to the same degree that Johnson, and to a lesser extent Nixon were during Vietnam. Losing Republican seats in Congress this fall could change that reality.

The loyalty of the troops to one another and, de facto, to the mission is also an important difference. I think there is more dissent in the ranks than we know but it has been carefully managed up until now. It could change in response to an Obama administration, which will make our organizing next year even more crucial.

Another important comparison: If you compare the current war to Vietnam, with Johnson's major escalation in 1965 being roughly equivalent to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, we are now seven years into the war. Seven years into the Vietnam period was 1972, when the movement helped nominate McGovern and then Nixon beat him. This time, because there is no incumbent, Obama has a real advantage. He will also have the disadvantage of taking credit or blame for how he manages the withdrawal.

There may be an opportunity for the movement and antiwar veterans to be even more effective in persuading the potential antiwar constituency precisely because they will not be seen as part of a counter culture. Certainly much of our effort should be focused on support for those vets who have come to their antiwar position from experience. That was the real turning point on Vietnam and could be again.

Whoa! A lot of ideas are being thrown around.

I think a draft and higher casualties will stiffen resistance to the war which at this point is clearly not strong enough to end it.

I'm writing a response to this topic over on my blog later this afternoon. For some reason my commment here was being blocked. [It wasn't length or obscenity, and I don't know if it was for too many links or some other screening criterion I'm not aware of.] I hope this one will get through...

"Remember that there was widespread mutiny in Vietnam, now covered up. Sabotage, fragging, refusal to go on patrol. It may not have been overwhelming, but it was a detriment nevertheless. They have to have obedient troops!"

I never saw anything like this. No sabotage, certainly no mutiny. fragging, yes...some guys that were trying to get folks killed got fragged, I only saw one guy ever refuse to go on patrol. Nobody would let his mates down and have another man take his place. He killed himself in the hospital. There were some that simply couldn't handle it, but they were sent back quickly.

Did any of you other guys see anything like that described above? 67 I was mostly around the Cua Viet River, 69 mostly the Arizona Valley and Que Son Mountains. Maybe it was going on other places.

isherwood61 June 27th, 2008 1:27 pm
I believe thats a fair analysis of Viet Nam/Iraq differences. But I would suggest that Bush's base is nowhere near as solid as you say. I believe most want out of Iraq. Sure they support our troops, in reality who doesn't, but they are no more happy with us being in Iraq than you we are.

See "greenerthanthou June 27th, 2008 1:13 pm" comment on the logger she met. You can't know what people really think till you talk to them.

Matthew Smucker and the WRL have done a great service in launching this discussion. (With a name like that he ought to be good!) People who take personal potshots at discussion initiators should ponder the things that can make for peace and evaluate their own contributions.

With regard to demonstrations, the political difference between the Vietnam and Iraq eras in mind:

The antiwar demonstrations of the Johnson-Nixon era made a difference because both presidents had made campaign commitments to the antiwar constituency, which is always larger than but influenced by the antiwar movement. Both Johnson and Nixon were vulnerable to antiwar pressure because they had made promises to the antiwar constituency for which the antiwar movement could hold them accountable. Even during the Korean war Eisenhower was accountable to the antiwar constituency even though the antiwar movement was almost nonexistent. Ike managed to get the shooting to stop, which largely satisfied the antiwar constituency for two terms.

Bush has not been as vulnerable because his initial constituency had no antiwar elements. Now he is unpopular for a host of reasons but is still not accountable because, to a large extent, his base still supports or accedes to the "war on terror" of which the Iraq occupation is a part. Democrats have not marshaled the forces needed to take the same kind of steps they took in the early seventies to end US involvement in Vietnam.

Obama has co-opted the antiwar constituency for the moment, but in so doing has made himself vulnerable to the antiwar movement should he drag his feet on ending the occupation or succumb to the temptation of attacking Iraq (or continuing a Bush-initiated bombing campaign). Nonetheless he is the lesser evil because he has made promises (or it least allusions to promises) in regard to ending the occupation and scaling back the "war on terror." Nader or Barr or McKinney will not win, so though they may forward the discussion of the issues their campaigns are largely symbolic and will have little importance come November 5.

Until November the national political discussion will focus on the campaigns. Peace activists should have no illusions that Democratic victory will end our job. In 2009 an Obama victory will make our work harder but perhaps more fruitful, much like the fall of 1969 when Nixon's honeymoon ended and the antiwar demonstrations reached a zenith. The antiwar movement will be in a position to lead the antiwar constituency if the legions of hope and change are treated to more of the same. This is the situation for which we need to prepare.

There are lots of jobs to do. I hope the Cleveland conference will feed momentum for some kind of national mobilization next spring. I hope the Cleveland folks will join forces with UFPJ in achieving that goal. I hope that all of the good folks working on counter-recruitment, counseling veterans, the I-P conflict, global warming, healthcare, and the spectrum of other crucial issues will see the connections with their concerns to the war and occupation and support a national mobilization.

If we are to keep Obama and company less evil, which I think we can, then working alongside the Obama machine now so that it knows, from bottom to top, what can happen if they go too far to the right is essential. An energized discussion of what it will take to survive in the dangerous era that the Bushies have produced is essential to achieving the kind of mobilization that helped to rein in US imperialism during the Vietnam era.

Mass demonstrations can be a key element of that kind of movement if we make sure to use them to highlight the many other kinds of work that goes on day to day, week to week, and before and after the big march. Demos and rallies should not be an end in themselves but a way to bring attention to all of our efforts. That's how we can make marching representative of a movement.

We do need to reach the rednecks. I was sitting in a bar in Montana with an unemployed logger a few years ago. We actually agreed about everything except logging! Because when I brought up the fact that this country is controlled by corporations, he was all about it.

Reaching the military is important. That's why I mentioned the coffee houses. Apparently, IVAW has a few places like that today.

I like YungTurk's idea of joining and subverting the military. That's a much better idea than reviving the draft in the hopes that enough kids will be killed to make Americans anti-war. How profoundly sick is that? Killing thousands to get your agenda adopted. That's as bad as the neocons.

Remember that there was widespread mutiny in Vietnam, now covered up. Sabotage, fragging, refusal to go on patrol. It may not have been overwhelming, but it was a detriment nevertheless. They have to have obedient troops!

That's why we need to reach young people with 9-11 truth. 9-11 is the justification for so much of the neocon agenda.

jcrumb: It won't work. They'll just print more money or write more IOU's, or get the money overseas. It won't matter. Where do you think all this money is coming from? Taxes? Billions and billions? It's printed and borrowed.

There's still an anti-war movement? As my girlfriend said the other day, "That's so early '00s!"
I took part in every major D.C. march from 2002 to 2007, as well as dozens of local actions, plus the the RNC protests in 2004. What did I learn? Unless the powers-that-be are directly threatened by your actions in some way, they couldn't care less. I've also come to accept the fact that I'm a misfit who's drastically out-of-step with most people most of the time. That's sad, but it also means I'm less responsible for the stupidity of my fellow human beings. You want to run society off a cliff, go ahead and be my guest. Sometimes the only way to learn is to burn.
In short, I've become very cynical, which is what happens when you make a great emotional investment in something that doesn't pay off. In the end reality, in the form of peak oil and economic collapse, will probably have a far greater effect on the direction society than anything I've done. People will just toodle along on their self-destructive course, ignoring all advice to the contrary, until circumstance delivers a good stern kick to their genital regions.

dmgold June 27th, 2008 11:14 am

This isn't Nam and what I was trying to say was that in my opinon these actions have exactly the reverse effect you are trying to achieve.

Move On and Code Pink have damaged the anti-war effort among ordinary Americans.

We all should follow what happens this weekend in Cleveland at the National Assembly to End the War and Occupation in Iraq. It is the broadest antiwar conference since the Vietnam War. Potentially it can be a huge step forward in keeping mass protests for "Out Now" on the agenda even during an election year.

www.natassembly.org

War is what empires do. The next election will determine who the next emperor will be. The ruling class elites determine the policies and it's the emperor's job to carry them out. The Congress is a rubber stamp now headed by the "opposition" party "anti-war" Democrats that just approved enough money for the wars to see them comfortably through 2009 to avoid the embarrassment of it coming up again during the elections.

A quick study of US military history will reveal that hardly a day has ever set in which the US wasn't involved militarily somewhere. The US operates and/or controls between 700 and 800 military bases worldwide.

Grenada 1983
Beirut 1983
Panama 1989
Gulf War I
Somalia 1992
Yugoslavia 1990-1999
War on Terrorism (2001–present)
Afghanistan
Philippines 2002
Liberia 2003
Iraq

So, what to do? Move to Sweden, Finland, Norway, Holland, Denmark, or Switzerland because asking the next emperor to not engage in war is like asking the quarterback of a football team to not run the ball or make passes. It's just what they do.

As more and more average Americans get tired of the war, and as their personal economic situation feels more squeezed, they start thinking in new ways. Remember the blizzard to "Support the Troops" magnets on cars 5 years ago. Well they're all but gone.

Anti-war sentiment is spreading through the ranks of the military and we should be delighted! Let's do whatever we can to help it grow.

There will always be a need for mass demonstrations too. When someone marches with literally thousands of others for the same cause they get a sense of the potential power of ordinary people joining together. Corporate America want us to be isolated from each other and us to feel our power atomized. Mass demonstrations once and awhile remind us that ordinary working people coming together in great numbers can change the world.

Citizen J,
Visit counter-recruitment.org, as well as CodePink, AFSC, and UFPJ sites for tactics and networking on counter-recruitment. Examples of tactics include: passing school board resolutions/local ordinances banning military recruiting on high school campuses, shadowing recruiters at your local mall etc and passing out counter-recruitment literature to kids they approach, or depending on your willingness to risk arrest, direct action at recruiting stations (during Nam, recruiting centers around the country were occupied and even torched!).
A lot of this stuff is happening already, my argument above is that it needs to be the central strategic focus of the movement.

dmgold's suggestion of putting the emphasis on counter-recruitment makes a lot of sense. It's a volunteer army, so starve them of volunteers! This is meaningful action on the local level which could build tangible results on the macro level, perhaps surprisingly quickly. If a lack of manpower forces a draft, then so much the better for antiwar purposes.

I would enjoy telling students true stories of how the military screws you with broken promises. Don't we all have a family member or acquaintance who was lied to by the recruiter? Get the word to young women about the odds of being raped on duty. However, I don't think the way to do it is to picket the high school or even try to get on the premises. I think a more covert approach is in order. Does anyone have any suggestions how to acquire a mailing list of local high school students...like the recruiters have...I'd gladly pay the postage for a highly targeted mailing.

I think that anxiety due to the economic situation, the fear of losing one's job or healthcare, and the loss of privacy protections, all keep sympathetic people from openly joining in action. We have to find more undercover ways of throwing wrenches into the works.

Brian Brademeyer June 26th, 2008 7:25 pm
"Adopting the "We support the troops, too" mantra strangled the "anti-war" movement in its crib."

Supporting our troops in the field has absolutely nothing...thats NOTHING...to do with being anti-war or doing whatever you can to get our guys and gals out of there before 2010...I hope.

susanparker June 26th, 2008 7:01 pm
Is exactly right about this in my opinion.

"progressives need to look to our own lack of involvement in local politics as the real culprit; we passively allow city, county and state government bodies to set policy and then try to mount a podium on the national platform. Won't work!"

dmgold June 27th, 2008 1:33 am

Now in number one you want to destroy our military totally. What in the world would you do then if you were successful?

In number two, the very thing we do need to be stopping, the thing that you would almost guarantee to increase geometrically if you were successful with number 1.

"drinking" wine "local events, sports, music, and the opposite sex."

This is the definition of a redneck? There are only 10 people in the world that aren't rednecks? I know youi meant this to be humorous, but I couldn't resist.
.............
As to confronting people, you might want to try other methods as suggested. Attacking folks seldom changes their mind.

If this can't be accomplished politically, it can't be done. Marches won't help. Demonstrations might if they aren't the silly ones. About the only thing that would do it in a heartbeat would be the draft as suggested above. God forbid we have that back.

ACORN does a lot of that union work internationally. Wade Rathke runs a blog for those interested.

http://www.chieforganizer.org/

RESPONSE TO THADDEUSSTEPHENS:

Can a "single cause" anti-war movement be effective?

thaddeusstephens June 26th, 2008 6:55 pm
"A single cause movement such as one tied to the war in Iraq will never go anywhere on a national scale....We who are progressives need to look to our own lack of involvement in local politics as the real culprit; we passively allow city, county and state government bodies to set policy and then try to mount a podium on the national platform. Won't work!"

I agree, although I would add my view that "involvement in local politics" should be conducted through labor organizations, and focused on non-organized sectors of labor.

It is revealing how few posters on this thread have considered the problems of the anti-war movement in a historical framework, such as thaddeusstephens slavery example - where he notes that the anti-slavery movement was supported by organized action/views on other issues. Again - I would add that organized labor was a vital part of such action/views.

Hug a redneck..haha

Put some party into protest.

What "anti-war movement"?

It's just a bunch of people blogging and yapping that sometimes march or stand in the streets with signs -when they're not at work at least.

Looks more like an anti-war HOBBY to me.

War is a Symptom of a screwed-up Society.

You can drink the Nyquil, but the cold will remain until the virus itself is confronted and destroyed.

Luckily for all the silly people who stress out of over things like the "failure" of the anti-war "movement", the Control types are running out of rabbits to pull out of their hats, and the Needed Change we've been avoiding for more than a century will soon come.

If you truly believe in "peace" then your goal SHOULD NOT be pissing off your neighbors with pathetic "actions" that do nothing to stop anything. Your goal should be to become as unified with your neighbors as possible, so that when things really get nasty with the weather and the economy over the next few years, Solidarity, and therefore, Peace, will be possible.

Do not succumb to the "wedge issue" manipulation!

Solidarity within Class, and within Community, are the only way through to a new and better Society where "peace" will be truly normative.

Have fun.

Have it with a redneck you know, I suggest drinking will help. Good topics of commonality might be local events, sports, music, and the opposite sex.

If you don't like drinking and talking about these kind of things, and you have a strong desire for "peace", I suggest you find a Monastery somewhere which will take you in -because you do not like the World, whatever you might think.

-matti.

Mr. Smucker advised us to "think like winners." I believe they do this in corporate training exercises. I, for one, am going to go on thinking like a loser, because it is a simple fact that our military has a lot more guns and weapons and money than any other entity, including this here "peace" outlying faction. There is nothing wrong is seeing our futility, our ineffectiveness, our historical marginality. The last thing we need are more grandstanding "leaders" like Mr . Smucker, as accurate as some of his sociology may be. We know what out beliefs are, and we know that the American supersystem is against us in a million ways, a lot of them having the color green, much of which has bled into our lives. There have been good and honest voices in this section, like Kitaj.

HEY "NATIVESON" AND EVERYBODY ELSE...

THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT..IS NOT..IT IS A PRO-WAR MOVEMENT...BECAUSE VIRTUALLY EVERY "MEMBER" OF THE ANTIWAR MOVEMENT..IS ALSO PAYING FOR THE WAR...AND NATIVESON? GUESS WHAT..YOU LEFT OUT THE TAXPAYER IN YOUR OPINION ON GUILTY PARTIES...IF YOU USE THE ANALOGY OF A BANK ROBBER AND THE GETAWAY DRIVER..WELL..HEY..HOW ABOUT THE FINANCIAL BACKERS OF THE CRIME?...WHO BANKROLLS THE CRIME? ARE THEY NOT COMPLICIT?

I AM CONTINUALLY AMAZED...NO! ACTUALLY ...SHOCKED..IT IS SURREAL HOW OBVIOUS THE SOLUTION IS..AND THAT IT IS NOT BEING DONE...

IMAGINE IF EVERY MEMBER OF THE ANTIWAR MOVEMENT....STOPPED PAYING FOR THE WAR..WAHT..50 MILLION PEOPLE WHO SUDDENLY ECIDE TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTHS ARE? CAN YOU IMAGINE?

A GENERAL TAX STRIKE..BY MILLIONS OF AMERICANS..WILL CAUSE A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING SCENARIO THAT WILL MAKE SUCH SWEEPING CHANGES, AND SO QUICKLY..THAT IT WILL BE SCARY..TRULY..FOR THEY WOULD HAVE TO NEGOTIATE..WHAT? IS THE SENATE GOING TO SAY "NO!" WE WILL NOT DISCUSS THIS WITH YOU EVEN THOUGH WE NO LONGER HAVE THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES AND YOU ARE AFTER ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS..AND WE SERVE YOU.." NO..THEY COULD NOT DO THAT..IT WOULD BE CONFUSING..SCARY..BUT IT IS ALL WE HAVE LEFT..IT IS NON-VIOLENT AT IT'S CORE..AND IT IS ALL THE BOY'S THAT CALL THE SHOTS CARE ABOUT..MONEY..MONEY..MONEY...NOTHING ELSE...

$162 BILLION OF YOUR DISPOSABLE AND DUTIFULLY SENT..DOLLARS...JUST THIS WEEK...AND MORE TO COME

YOU PAY THE SALLERIES OF THE TORTURERS, THE BOMBERS, THE SHOOTERS...THE POLITICIANS THAT MAKE THE DECISIONS AGAINST YOUR WISHES...ALL OF TI..YOU..YOU..YOU!...YOUR MONEY..YOU ARE COMPLICIT...

THE ONLY "APPROVAL" THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REQUIRS FROM YOU...IS THE MONEY YOU SEND...THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE..

A TAX STRIKE PEOLE..OTHERWISE IT'S ALL TALK..AND THAT IS THE ONLY ACTION MOST OF YOU ARE WILLING TO TAKE..AND THIS IS WHY ALL THE EARNEST MARCHING AND LETTER WRITING HAS AMOUNTED TO WHAT? NOTHING..NOTHING..NOTHING..N-O-T-H-I-N-G! NOT A GODDAMN THING...THREAT LEVEL ORANGE..LOBBYISTS RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT..THE ILLEGAL WAR FNDED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT..ILLEGAL TORTURE ON TAP..TELECOM IMMUNITY..(THAT SHOULD REALLY TELL YOU HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS)..AND ON AND ON AND ON...UNTIL..OF COURSE...AND IF........THE MONEY RUNS OUT..

IMPOSE ECONOMIC SANCTIONS ON THIS ROGUE GOVERNMENT..OR SHUT UP! TAKE A "RISK"..RISK A HASSLE..NOT YOUR LIFE..AND IF ENOUGH OF YOU JOIN TOGETHER..THERE WILL BE NO HASSLE...JUST THE POWE OF THE PURSE...AND COLLECIVE BARGAINING..PERIOD...RUNTHE WHOE THING VIA THE WEB..ETC.ETC..IT IS THE SOLUTION..IF YOU CANNOT SEE THAT..AND YOU CAN ONLY RATIONALIZE AWAY WHAT I AM TELLING YOU..THEN YOU ARE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN ENDING THIS WAR...FOR IT WILL NOT END AS LONG AS THE MONEY IS THERE..PERIOD...AS LONG AS THE AMERICAN PEOLE PAY THE TAB...PICK UP THE CHECK...REMAIN COMPLICIT IN THEIR ROLE AS FINANCIERS OF THE WAR...IT....WILL...CONTINUE....PERIOD! AND YOU KNOW IT!

DO SOMETHING REAL..DO SOMETHING EFFECTIVE...DO NOT DECLARE...SUFFER THE LOSS OF YOUR FREEDOMS..IT IS NOT FAR OFF..WAR WITH IRAN? YOUR MONEY TOO....SO GET READY...YOU PAY...THEY PLAY! SIMPLE AS THAT...

LIVE FREE OR DIE

I think we need an internet based anti-war media empire. Democracynow.org has done a fantastic job at taking the bad guys to task. They break stories that are censored in the Main Stream Media (MSM)... and often the MSM is forced to play catch-up and address the issue. For example- Democracynow.org carried the story of the US military using chemical weapons upon the city of Falluja- which was a war crime. The MSM was forced to cover the story days later- only problem is that the MSM has a powerful spin machine that basically began re-writing what the definition of a chemical weapon is. According to them, white phosophorous which makes your skin burn off upon contact is no longer a chemical weapon, now it's an 'incindiary weapon'. The MSM is never going to give you the truth.

The time has come to make our own media- and call it how we see it. The internet provides the potential to reach the global audience without billions of dollars of investment.

I think we should have 100 stations like Democracynow- broadcasting relentlessly- everyday, every hour. Cause the problem with the antiwar movement is that no one really even understands what the war is about. Well, I have a tip for you. The Cold War ain't over. Neocons and their beloved Freemarketron think they have one final enemy stopping them from conquering the world- communism. Because the commies can't be bought and wont play the capitalist game. I'm not supporting communism, but I can clearly see that it is the antagonist that has the neocons panties in a bunch.

Put on your suit. Turn on the camera. Call it like you see it. Build an audience. Be better then TV. First we must be informed before we can make the right decisions. Until we do that, we're just trapped in a circus called FAKEDEMOCRACY.

Probably the biggest problem with the anti-war movement is that it lacks a consistently strong presence. Protests are organized, and when the marches are over, people go home. Some outrage occurs, and maybe a DC phone bank or fax machine gets tied up for a few hours, but that's it.

Change takes commitment. We all know that. The problem is that too many of us keep hoping to win the anti-war lottery, and participate in that one magic event where history is made in a single, miraculous day. Oh, some day!!! We'll all just simply by join the flood of angry people in the street for a couple hours in THIS WILL BE THE ONE!!! They can't POSSIBLY ignore us NOW!!!

Keep dreaming.

Protests achieve nothing. It's not as if those in power aren't perfectly well-aware of the fact that most of the country isn't behind their actions. They simply don't care.

If I had all the power, and getting what I want meant disappointing millions of beings who could do nothing more than scurry around looking silly, would it stop me? When was the last time you ceded your bowl of potato salad to the columns of ants crawling up your picnic blanket?

Here's a simple formula for stopping the war:

1) Join the military and encourage as many of your like-minded anti-war friends to do the same.

2) Complete your training to the best of your ability. Make Uncle Sam proud and confident in the strength of his amazing fighting force.

3) Become an indispensable member of your unit or organization. Volunteer for hard assignments. Let your lazy, pro-war superiors take credit for your work. Do a little back-scratching. Help them get promoted in return for the peanuts they confer upon you. They'll think you're a fool and a sucker, but it's just part of the larger plan.

4) When your big moment comes, and you're ordered to deploy, refuse. That's the hard part, I know. You'll face some sort of judicial punishment and likely get kicked out of the military. Possibly even imprisoned. But hey! It's not like you ever REALLY wanted to be in the military anyway, right? Meanwhile Colonel "Lazy" Fatbottom who thought you were an obedient little sucker is now wondering how he's going to get things done.

5) Rinse and repeat. That is, if all your principled anti-war friends do the same, the integrity of our Armed Forces becomes seriously compromised. Commanders start to re-assess business as usual. Punishment and discharge of servicemembers becomes possibly more severe at first, but eventually must relax as the realization sinks in that the best trained and most capable are being drained away and the rotten carcass that's left isn't capable of sustaining itself even OUTSIDE a war situation. Likewise, resources are drained away from the front lines as recruiting and commissioning processes are re-evaluated and revamped in order to prevent the futher infiltrations.

6) Paranoia takes its course. Competent and capable performers in the military are held under increasing suspicion. Vain efforts at partisan litmus testing are introduced, only to be foiled the instant a deployment order is given. The military finds itself in the embarrasing predicament of having to balance the promotion of loyal, lazy incompetents with those suspicious-looking industrious and fit types.

7) Increased inefficiency necessitated by entrusting this corps of the incapable (but obedient) raises the cost of maintaining this army of second-rate mercenaries to grossly obscene levels. Fraud, waste, and abuse run unchecked. Even those blindly and dutifully following the immoral orders they've been given have increasing difficulty doing so.

Gosh.

Now that I think about it, this process could be happening RIGHT NOW!

'Wanna help? ;)

I remember I suggested to UfP that it might be fun to hook some powered magnets up to the NYPD french fence stack the night before a big demo. All the fences would be stuck together in the morning!! She said "Of course, we don't do that sort of thing." I wished and hopeed she was just saying that for the NSA listeners, but.....

The main problem I see with the antiwar movement, is one of strategy. The movement is too focused on IRAQ, and has defined victory as getting troops out of Iraq.
By focusing on getting out of Iraq, WE ARE BLOWING BIG OPPORTUNITES TO MAKE OTHER, LONGER-LASTING VICTORIES. I suggest focusing most movement resources on 2 areas:
1) Counter-recruitment--We should be focused on stopping the next war by making counter-recruitment a number 1 priority. Purely as a result of the war in Iraq, the US military has been at a breaking point (in terms of capacity) for the last several years. The movement should be focusing all our energy on pushing it past that tipping point, past the point of recovery. Lots of tactics possible here, that all should serve to make it impossible for recruiters to meet their quotas. We need to focus on castrating the military machine where it breeds-- at the level of recruitment.
2) Private Military contractors-- given the above, the future of US wars will be an increased reliance on private military contractors (PMC's), eg: Dyncorp, Blackwater, KBR. These corporate armies represent the biggest threat to us and to democracy itself, as it is only a matter of time until they are deployed against Americans. We should be focused on diminishing the legal and political power of PMC's and destroying them, any way we can. Lord knows they've screwed up enough to give us plenty of ammunition to work with. At the very least, we should be pushing for Congress to ban the deployment of PMCs on US soil.
If we want to stop policymakers from waging war, we have to cut off the military capacity to do so. --Derek

Stephen Riley: Thanks for your post.

You know Sherri and Bobby Cruickshank? In Palm Springs now?

My dog and I wanna go to the march.

You know Anyone driving?
I grew the refrehments.
I live in Grass Valley.

What Is To Be Done?

http://www.gp.org/
http://www.runcynthiarun.org/

This mantra by misleaders and naysayers alike that we have supposedly tried and done demonstrations and that they do not work is a big part of the Antiwar Movement's current sickness and demobilization. The fact is, that we have not demonstrated that much against the war machine in this country. The majority of the country has never had any large antiwar demonstration at all in their locale!

Matthew Smucker is a whiner and loser and he represents the worst in the current misleadership of the antiwar groups. He comes to the following erroneous and infantile conclusion...

'We need to focus less on big demonstrations, and more on organizing a base and building leadership.'

Oh Brother, Matthew. Get your butt back out there and organize a big demonstration now and stop whining that it is supposedly not worthwhile to do so. It is a sickening and defeatist attitude you have!

Just what is the leverage that street protest conveys? How are we to organize protests that bring out tens of millions? Bush and the Republicans and the Democrats ignore huge protests. The sorry fact of the matter is that the Congress is infested with hawks who are put in office by hawkish constituents, evidently. All these polls say 70% of the people want out of Iraq, so November should bring that proportion of doves to Congress. If the hawks up for election come back in the next term, then we've got to forget about the polls.

I believe boycott is the only really effective means of influencing policy. But serious boycott, sustained boycott, entails readjusting our habits. The more we develop a viable, attractive alternative style, the more peace-hungry people will join us.

How can we boycott? With vibrant neighborhood communities. We entertain ourselves, feed ourselves, heal and support each other. And stay put. As a result we consume much less energy.

Thanks RichM for the correction.

The Website for the WITNESS AGAINST WAR 2008 is :

http://vcnv.org/witness-against-war

Stephen V. Riley (11:35 pm) describes the THE WITNESS AGAINST WAR 2008 MARCH ... organized by "VOICES FOR CREATIVE NONVIOLENCE", a nationally known organization, made famous by its' co-founder Kathy Kelly.

The actual web address (as opposed to the email address) is: http://vcnv.org/witness-against-war

Notice that those consummate sell-outs, the Democrats aren't even mentioned. We anti-war fools put our collective hopes in the Democrats and gave them control of the Congress in the hopes they would stop the colonial-style, illegal war/occupation.

The Democratic-controlled Congress is to blame because they have the power to stop the war and refuse to do it because they are in bed with the Republicans.

To stop the war, all that is required is 41 resolute Democrats in the Senate, which of course, can't be found.

In a fairytale I heard in school the Congress represents "We the People". Boy wasn't that a crock of pure sh*t!

The Anti-War Movement is fomented by deviants who cannot shoot guns and join Militias wihout feeling guilty.

PAY NO MIND to the Treachery of the so called "experts" from the Social Sciences Depts. at well-established universities! WAR is GOD'S WAY of TRICKLING his GOODNESS UPON YOU. HE will be with us as we Plunder the HEATHENS and return their ill-gotten resources to their Rightful place among the God-Fearin' Chickenpluckers.

I can't believe that peace activist Matthew Smucker failed to mention the "WITNESS AGAINST WAR 2008 MARCH from Chicago to St. Paul, Minn, July 12 to August 31, ending at the Republican Convention.

THE WITNESS AGAINST WAR 2008 MARCH is organized by "VOICES FOR CREATIVE NONVIOLENCE", a nationally well known organization, most famous by its' co-founder Kathy Kelly. Kathy is no flake, a national hero, international peace traveler and a three-time NOBEL PEACE PRIZE NOMINEE. The march is to challenge and to nonviolently resist our country's continuing war in and occupation of Iraq.

GO TO witnessagainstwar@vcnv.org. FOR ALL THE LATEST INFORMATION.

The walk will roughly parallel I-94 from Chicago to Tomah, Wisconsin and I-90 from Tomah to LaCrosse, Wisconsin. It will go through: Evanston and Waukegan in Illinois. In Wisconsin they will be journeying through Racine, Milwaukee, Jefferson, Madison, Baraboo, Yomah and LaCrosse. In Minnesota, they will be going through Winoma, Rochester and ending in St. Paul.

So this is your chance CommonDreams readers. You can join the group for a day, a week, a month or the entire march. I will be joining the group for the first two weeks, flying in from Tahoe City, CA, and driving my rental van as a "Sag Van" for the weary. If any CommonDreams readers live any where near the route, please think about doing "The Walk, and Not the Talk".

They expect the overall peace activists and protestors in St. Paul to be over one hundred thousand.

"War is the health of the state."--Randolph Bourne. It was true in 1917, it's true now. And when we have a fully militarized corporate state, as we do, then the health of the corporations is all that matters. The "war" (any war, anywhere, all the time) will continue into perpetuity so long as we are happy with capitalism and conveniently ignore its consequences. Obama is as focussed on maintaining the health of the corporate state as McCain is, as Hillary is, as all the rest of the criminal ring in Washington is; therefore, we cannot rid ourselves of war, anti-war movement or not. Since it's mostly "not" these tedious days, we're stuck with it, stuck with bitching and blogging about it to no meaningful purpose, like mice on a cage wheel. We're smart enough to know how terrible and absurd war is, but we're too stupid to know how to end it, once and for all. Alas, we're just too fucking stupid to live, it often seems.

This is IMPORTANT: Please contact your Reps. & Senators to oppose Resolution 362! This is sponsored by Voters for Peace;

Oppose Resolution 362
The resolution's key section "demands that the president initiate an international effort to immediately and dramatically increase the economic, political, and diplomatic pressure on Iran to verifiably suspend its nuclear enrichment activities by prohibiting the export to Iran of all refined petroleum products; imposing stringent inspection requirements on all persons, vehicles, ships, planes, trains, and cargo entering or departing Iran; and prohibiting the international movement of all Iranian officials not involved in negotiating the suspension of Iran's nuclear program."

This resolution essentially calls for an act of war – a naval blockade of Iran. If passed by the Congress and Bush does what is asked it ensures war with Iran. Iran is three times the size of Iraq. If you think the Iraq war and occupation have been bad, wait till you see what war with Iran brings.

Write Representatives;
http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/1312/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=25060

Write Senators;
http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/1312/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=25062

If we flood their inboxes, maybe we can prevent THIS war!

TCDrifter, you might like this idea:

http://www.sedit.org

particularly check out "Self-Directed Income Tax and Religious Liberty"

Thinking "outside the box" and winging it is for courageous, outrageous, people.... who are not comfortably sitting at their computers fearing what they may loose if jailed or pinpointed as an aggitator
Wild, creative, things are showing up...but because the press/government learned from the 60's not to televize the revolution...we who keep peering at the TV or looking to the "news" papers in hopes of seeing the mass
protests will be sorely disappointed and depressed...gotcha...just take another pill and make it all go away...just like "they" want you to....how many people do you know on anti-depressants are creative, outrageous, courageous?....How many on la-la medication? The numbers are staggering...
Getting organized on the net...
SusanParker getting a support group together for compassion for the Iraqi's...great idea i'm in
The check box on the income tax form is excellent too...start a petition...i'll sign

All I want is one simple thing...A check box on my federal income tax that says "By selecting this box, none of your funds will be available for war, either declared or undeclared." Despite my opposition to ALL war, in the end they can use my money just the same as the most fervant war supporter. The jokes on me.

What's to be done?

It's the election, stupid.

"What Is to Be Done?"

It's the election, stupid.

Thomas Spellman

I know I will be in the minority BUT NO MENTION OF AIPAC. UNTIL we first acknowledge the power of AIPAC and the politics of AIPAC we will just spin our tires in the sand. Pure and simple, AIPAC controls the WAR and our Congress. If you do not know about AIPAC that is part of the problem.

Second the lie of the "9-11 Official Story" must be exposed to the light of day. The progressive press and media ill serves the "anti-war movement. The lie festers and causes great harm to the body politic. People trust that their leaders will be TRUTHFUL and the Progressive Media has chosen for who knows what reason to abandon the simple science that proves explosives had to be used to destroy 3 buildings in NYC on 9-11-01. Bush lies but the progressive media says that on 9-11-01 issues Bush tell the TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH and nonthign but the TRUTH. Peace Tom Spellman

yes, I've been supporting Rangel's proposal from the beginning... The use, abuse, and misuse of our national guard and "voluntary" army is another atrocity.

A volunteer ( read "full-time career military class" ) army was always a very very dangerous idea.

No draft.
When there is a draft war will shut off over night.

Stanwix wrote:

"We represent no threat whatever. Zero. The public at large does regard us as marginal, as Smucker rightly notes, and we have collaborated in and even embraced that identity. This helps these same powers enormously–they can simply write us and our arguments off as "extreme." And because we have never learned to communicate effectively with the unpoliticized general public, the label sticks. End of conversation. Nothing changes. I'm glad WRL and others are finally, finally starting to engage with this problem. As I have said elsewhere, I ain't marching anymore. But do let me know when you start planning something that is likely to have a real impact, something they can't ignore and that large numbers of ordinary folk can get behind and participate in."

Here are things that would actually slow down the war machine:

-Organize a strike if you're unionized/Stay home from work if you're not. ESPECIALLY CRUCIAL is to organize people like dockworkers/longshoreman and Teamsters who, in addition to being traditionally radical, hold actual power over the economy and (I would assume) the shipment of arms to other countries.

-Counter-recruitment, even in times of peace (perhaps especially then), on campuses and outside of military recruitment centers; use facts to (1) expose the lies that recruiters tell and (2) challenge the dominant militaristic ideology which says that war is often a necessary evil.

-Support dissenting soldiers and encourage dissenting soldiers to talk other soldiers into dissenting (as the article mentions)

Here are things that would make the antiwar voice heard and help create a mass movement out of a mass of alienated individuals who FEEL surrounded by a pro-war culture (whether or not they really are):

-Graffiti/guerrilla bumper stickering/hang flags or banners from your property or public property - i.e., ADVERTISE your views so people get a feel for the extent of anti-war sentiment. The more you exceed the tradition bounds of acceptability for placement of these advertisements, the more you break war resistance out of the manageable, marginalizable little corner it's been backed into.

-Street protests (students, residents, laborers) - they're not totally useless as long as they're done cheaply

On the last point, check out Mission Rejected by Peter Laufer.

We need to build a peace movement that lasts, and remains strong, between wars. Do workers in a trade organize a new union every time they are thinking about striking? Obviously not, they maintain an organizational apparatus capable of quick action when necessary (and quick action *is* necessary when you're talking about preventing a war from getting stared).

I am shocked and appalled that there aren't rampant protests against the Iran War. The writing is on the wall, it's going to happen, unless we do something (and maybe even then). The Vietnam resisters might have been justified in thinking that the end of the war was the end of the need for a movement, but if the organized resisters of this war allow themselves to be dispersed when we finally withdraw from Iraq, it will be without excuse for lack of knowledge.

citizenblog; Hell No. I say eat well.

I also say I want one hundred people to march on DC and the White House with me. Picket the White House and DEMAND IMPEACHMENT. I think a good trick would be for The Hundred to march to DC and "pick up' people along the way.

Yeah, Call ourselves The Hundred. I'm one. 99 more????

ANY GODDAMN THOUGHTS WHERE ARE YOU AMERICA?????

I mean, I will be one.

Waiting for someone else to say this, but don't see it yet.

You want a real anti-war movement? Wait until we have a draft.

Guaranteed to work.

I'm not quarreling with that. Good luck with YOUR peace movement.

On my local peace organizations daily briefings (many universities in the area), often virtually ALL of the events are pro-palestinian ... that conflict appears to be THE MISSION the peace movement locally ... ALL other issues have withered on the vine ...

As far as I can tell the center is a shell of what it was 5-7 years ago when there was more balance with almost daily meetings of this or that subgroups on things like prisoners rights, economic justice, environmental justice, dispute resolution, community organizing, civil disobedience, nonviolence training, etc.

There may be other reasons for this but the pro-palestinian lobby is going strong ...

Brian B - Agreed. I have no doubt that the good Germans in the 30's supported theirs as well.

Adopting the "We support the troops, too" mantra strangled the "anti-war" movement in its crib.

susanparker - Without resolving the Israel/Palestine issue, there will be no peace in the Middle East or elsewhere.

This fact makes many Jewish liberals uncomfortable, but it's a fact. This is not solely my opinion, but is shared by diplomats, heads of state, historians and even many of our leading military brass — as well as most people who live in the region.

While it's nice to have safe tragedies like Darfur that Jews can rally around, or the occupation of Iraq, a decades-long occupation that is winked at by the same people renders all their outrage pathetic and hypocritical.

Jewish liberals must someday realize that liberality does not end at Israel's yet undefined borders and that the rest of us are unwilling to finance and suffer for their arrogance and amorality any longer.

Actually, I think a lot of people do NOT want to be involved in the Israel-Palestinian issue, feeling it is simply too divisive and without solution.

It became an issue locally a few years ago. People were NOT willing to be forced to listen to diatribes on extraneous conflicts. They didn't like being told what they MUST believe. They felt it was opportunistic on the part of pro-palestinian organizers and stopped participating.

I admit I was uncomfortable with some of the diatribes ... and felt uncomfortable by the appearance that by standing in the assembled crowd (post-demostration) I was somehow in agreement with those particular speakers.

You may believe world peace revolves around Israel-Palestine ... others do not ... Are their feelings to be ignored? Are they to be shunned or simply browbeaten?

I've been 'working' in the peace movement since 2002. I started out with optimism, enthusiasm. First march, Los Angeles, over 75,000 strong. I was amazed, inspired, hopeful...THERE WOULD BE NO WAR!

Then the end of the march came. You all know. There were speakers and music.
And I was looking forward to hearing about how to attain PEACE! But instead, I was hit over the head with an abundance of causes...Free Mumia, Free Palestine, Impeach the President, .....I was, to say the least, confused, put off. There were hawkers pushing their merchandise...pins, flags, t-shirts, bumper stickers. Buckets were passed around seeking monetary donations...for what cause?

PEOPLE WERE VYING FOR THE SPOTLIGHT!

I looked around. My enthusiasm waned. I was put off. I felt betrayed.
Where were those who came to the march seeking peace? I felt out of touch.
I felt insignificant. But most of all, I felt like getting the hell out of there!

But I didn't give up on the peace movement. And the war began. And we held our local vigils. And we held our yearly Out of Iraq marches. And the numbers diminished. And Mumia still needed to be freed. And the hawkers were still out and about. And the screams by speakers about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, about police injustices, about women's rights, about targeting select politicians...and the NEED FOR THOSE TO BE IN THE SPOTLIGHT, TO BE THE STARS...were all still there! It had become even more
confusing to me, an organizer, an activist, a photographer/videographer.

Effective Peace Movement?

Scott Ritter has the answer. Organize under talking points we all can agree.
Have a leader. Have a plan. Study the 'enemy'. BE at WAR with the WAR movement.
Anticipate our opponents' actions and have mutiple actions for responses.
THE PEACE MOVEMENT NEEDS SOLIDARITY. Who will arise as the ultimate leader?

Ok, that's it.

Sign me,
a retired PEACE mom (awaiting a PLAN!)

lisa3210peace June 26th, 2008 5:57 pm

"Pathetic Gutless Hypocrisy."

Hunger Strikes?

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/25/9878/

A single cause movement such as one tied to the war in Iraq will never go anywhere on a national scale. The Republican party, in its earliest manifestations in the 1850's, was more than just the party of anti-slavery. It had the free soil issue and small farmers, at the local leverage point -who were tremendous in number-as its base. The party grew tremendously early on because it latched onto the overwhelming emotional attachment for people's feelings about slavery.

The war in Iraq has the same emotional investment as slavery perhaps for those of us who are in opposition but we have no party base; barriers to forming a new one cannot be blamed entirely on the locked down media. Money is the issue but finding a way free of campaign money that rules the system has yet to be discovered. All political campaigns, even Naders' run on huge piles of the greenback. We who are progressives need to look to our own lack of involvement in local politics as the real culprit; we passively allow city, county and state government bodies to set policy and then try to mount a podium on the national platform. Won't work!

Back to the local barricades and trenches!

Oh, and Stargeezer, when I moved into my house it had an obnoxious "security" light at night. For a while I left it, because my friend told me that hers attracted bats to the insects. But, no bats, so now, no light.

Well, my small community in Illinois took a busload of people to the demos in Washington, DC in Jan. 2003, and Sept 2005. There were hundreds of thousands of people at each one. The media ignored or downplayed the numbers.

We have a chapter of IVAW here. One thing they did in the 60s was to organize support groups for dissident GIs. They had coffee houses near many military bases where GIs could go and be exposed to antiwar thought.

Give GIs that you know 9-11 truth videos. Many of them are so brainwashed that they think they are fighting "terrorists".

I personally confront every military person I know when they start spouting "we fight for your freedom" bullshit. I point out that Iraqis did not vote for the Patriot Act, or for the suspension of habeus corpus. This propaganda should not go unchallenged! You never know whose eyes you will open.

Everyone in the US is exposed constantly to the propaganda that the US invades other countries "for our freedom". This is clearly wrong, and many people just need it pointed out to them. It is easier now that our freedom is so obviously been curtailed.

Not just the Patriot Act, but many people like to go to Cancun. Point out that now they need a passport! They can't go on Carribean cruises now without a passport. What happened to their so-called freedom?

Many people have to pee in a cup to get a job. How is that free? Many people now have to be fingerprinted and background checked. How is that free?

Checkpoints. Cops tasering and killing at will. 2,000,000 people in prison, more than any other country in the world?

It's easy to deconstruct the bullshit with people's day to day knowledge. It just has to be pointed out to them.

Israel is at the Nexus for discord in the world.

When Oil, Trillions of Dollars, hundreds of nuclear weapons and a stolen country and displaced people are well mixed, you have our Middle East.

With a homeland for the Palestinians, this horrible chapter in human history that effects SO much, as opeluboy notes, could pass.

The ME could achieve harmony and by this I mean Israel as well.

Israel has been the winner materially these last 50-60 years, but it is gutted spiritually.

A country feared and loathed.
And zionists, this by Israel's actions, not anti-semitism.
New actions, new attitudes from others.
I swear.

STILL COMMITTING WAR CRIMES, KILLING CIVILIANS
(and getting away with it)
U.S. Attacks Kill 8 Iraqis, Including Family

At least eight Iraqi civilians have been killed in separate attacks from U.S. forces. On Wednesday, a family of five died when a U.S. helicopter struck their home in Tikrit. Both parents were killed along with their three children all under ten years old. Another five people were injured in a neighboring home. Also Wednesday three Iraqi bank workers were killed when U.S. forces shot their car near Baghdad's airport. Meanwhile at least seven civilians were injured when a car bomb exploded in central Baghdad.

Can you imagine if these were Israelis that were being bombed and shot? They'd lob nukes all over the place with the help of the U.S., but because they're Arabs it's OK with the imperialists.

Which Pentagon official was it that said "We don't do body counts" when asked how many Iraqis were killed by the U.S.?

There can be no real anti-war movement as long as the slo-motion genocide in Palestine continues to be ignored by so many so-called leaders of this nascent movement.

Zionism and peace do not mix. Thus, our anti-war movement has been rendered a transparent, hypocritical circle jerk.

I think it was Naomi Klein (if not it was some other female author with similar demographic) who reported that when she was on her book tour (Shock Doctrine) she kept being approached by people with tears in their eyes, who simply broke down ... so great was the dispair ...

As I recall, she was rather shocked and appalled that this KEPT happening across the country ... wishing rather that people would "take action" ...

I know a poster who put their name and number on this thread TWICE and said they would march on DC and wanted others to join. Said they would picket the White House and DEMAND IMPEACHMENT but sought numbers:

ZERO CALLS COMMON DREAMERS! NOT ONE OF YOU DIALED THAT NUMBER TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING.

Have fun blogging.

But don't march on DC or even check it out-NONE OF YOU COMMON DREAMERS, not one, responded to two attempts to organize. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. HELLO, SELF-REFLECT.

Pathetic Gutless Hypocrisy.

United for Peach and Justice is a pretty good central clearing house ...

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/

jsc June 26th, 2008 4:19 pm

This in particuluar,
"The first thing to do is start talking about peace, liberty, anti-torture as if they were American values. The Left itself feeds the stereotype by calling these "leftist" values. They are NOT. They are American values and they are universal human values."
But this post in general makes the most sense.

The only thing I would disagree with is "All ideas presented here are valid" There are some I wouldn't say that about.

Wearing all black isn't that good an idea, there are still a great number of folks that take offense at someone wearing all black.

BugsBBunny III June 26th, 2008 5:00 pm
I wasn't here for those things, but I'm sure you are right. Once again very sensible.

Jsc: "But you can only change what you do, not what others do."

&

BugsBBunny III: "The Sixties : The Sequel, didn't do well at the box office? No it is NOT the sixties."

Very interesting posts, thank you.

Back in the sixties EVERY local antiwar group would publish their newspaper. A few articles, some cut and paste clips (back when you actually had to physically cut and then paste), some letters and comments etc. They were our internet and only means of mass communication with a few exceptions like Pacifica etc.
One thing all the local groups newspapers had was a BULLETIN BOARD which would list upcoming protests and actions around the country. You could plan ahead to attend a march.

Why in this age of the internet when there are tens of thousands of progressive sites, don't they share a bulletin board? Organize the progressive sites on the net and you'd see a united movement grow.

Many sites publicize protest actions only after they have occurred. See the problem organizers?

Organize the net. The net has organized us and we are all linked up... just not together. We need to be organized, I'd say.

As long as progressive sites do not actively organize their readers then ... what kind of movement is this? The trouble is not our being unable to communicate easily like back in the sixties but that even though we have instant (mass media) communication at our fingertips...it is not the organizing tool it could be.

Organizers back then would have organized the net and readers would have demanded it from their favorite progressive sites.

It's what is really missing in this modern peace movement. Unity. This generation is on the NET. The peace movement organizers have left it alone. Peace groups put up a site and that is that.

How about a universal bulletin board giving advanced notice of actions around the country.

That would help a lot.

I have thought that rather than a self-serving "anti-war movement" ... an Iraqi humanitarian aid movement might generate more enthusiasm and better (more tangible) results... as was "Voices in the Wilderness"... y'know before federal charges and all...

The Iraq war, which we started in 1991, has been a magnificent success for corporations and Capitalism. Just follow the money. War, death, destruction and weapons are the life-blood of the U$A. Making war is a lot more profitable than making widgets.

Don't misunderstand my point of view. I am one who was arrested and put on Trial for protesting the war. BUT, until people start opposing ALL parts of the war machine, including those who work for corporations involved in weaponry and the troops, wars will continue.

Jsc - seriously, what planet are you living on? American values? The America that slaughtered the Indians and built itself on slavery and has opposed every real democratic-socialist revolution and movement on the planet (and at home), intervening with either sabotage, political manipulation, economic warfare, low -intensity or high- intensity warfare or some combinations thereof?

Universal values? Seems to me the whold definition of rightwing - I'd prefer to use the term regressive - is the macho tough-guy propensity to be willing to shoot first and ask questions later. Of championing the right of the State - ya know, The State, which is owned by the Ruling Class - to engage in violence against one and all.

Hate to tell you but, the 60's counterculture was the FIRST mass, global uprising of democratic values in our known history. True, this was due to a combination of mass media, mass affluence and mass education, but prior to that there was never any broad protest against the full range of injustices and dead-end policies: racism, sexism, ecological destruction and pollution, deep critique of capitalism and technocracy and etc.

So my advice to all those who have problem with the 60's is: grow the hell up, and give credit where credit is due: us hippies were right about just about everything. Some of us even kept our minds free - whilst others sold-out - and warned that Reagan represented the right-wing...ur, regressive ruling classes attempt to roll-back the progressive-democratic gains of the 60's because they thought that this country was suffering too much democracy.

And last but not least, I do not think I have ever heard a rightwinger seriously denounce that mind control opiate of the people - christianity (or any conventional religion for that matter) - for its role in keeping people stupid, docile and easily ruled.

If not for the "left" we would presently be living under a theocratic system characterized by The Divine Right Of Capital, or in other words, total control by a Ruling Class, which is exactly where we may end up because too many people in this country are too brainwashed to see what is happening right in front of their noses, and too busy worrying about whether opposing the corporate satae is too *hippy* or whatever. Regards, Kitaj

>>>>>> Back around 1905, during the days of the Wobblies, members of the Labor class used to self-organize study groups and actually read books and actually learn to engage in a radical investigation and critique of the capitalist system that was exploiting them to death.

.... back in the '60s SDS and the PLP did the same ...

Pre-2000, as I recall, Catholic Worker was in a resurgence ... and the Fellowship for Reconciliation, the Budhist Peace Fellowship were very active pre-2000 ... and still are ...

If any members are here, I'd love to know "how's it going" in the "faith-based" community and what your insights are.