Uppity female. < ducking quickly >

Nasty Attitude Feminists for Obama! Wow! What a winner group this one is!

Now Fe(male) Troops, let's go kick some working class men's butts for they're too backwards for our liberal gliberal vaginas! We'll outfight you guys and kick McCain's old tired male rear end, too!

Sounds kinda like the NOW brass with their tops stripped off. Gender Wars!

Children are the human race's most valuable asset, correct?

Therefore, a mother is still considered the most powerful thing a woman can be.

Ergo, a woman's sexuality is her most powerful asset. Her breast and buttock power (ultimately her vagina and egg power), the abilities to attract a mate and reproduce, are more important than her brain power. On top of any "powerful" woman's list of accomplishments, she'll always place her children first. How is that different from the past 20,000 years?

It's up to women to redefine their power as something besides sexuality and the ability to reproduce. Feminism is just bogged down in the details.

B eing
I n
T otal
C ontrol of
H erself

Feminism is all about changing the way people think, talk, act and treat women. That talk and treatment is what makes or breaks a society that claims to be about equality and freedom.
Senator Clinton's run for the Presidency served a great many purposes; it allowed everyone, especially women, to see a strong, powerful, articulate woman go the distance. It allowed all the overt sexist their well-deserved public outing, the media executives' comments notwithstanding. It placed Senator Clinton is a coveted position of being a power broker in her own right. She commands respect and consideration and how many other women can say or do that?
It made the younger generation standup and be counted, even if they wouldn't be teamplayers and support the better of the two candidates. The younger crowd now sees the world a little differently and isn't all that enamored with the view.
Children will always be the biggest part of a woman's life, if she has them. The change from 20,000 years, it that once the kids have become adults, she gets to do something else to her liking. We have advanced, but there is still quite a ways to go in our thinking.

Sexism is such an accepted part of our language, people really don't realize when it's being used. A great example is how "having balls" is equated with courage or bravado. It's just amazing how many progressives will say something like, "Nancy Pelosi needs to grow some balls and stand up for impeachment." In other words, she needs to act more like a man!

Conversely, it's almost universally socially acceptable to label something with some kind of "pussy" epithet to indicate weakness. Several months ago, Jon Stewart - who should know better - said something about the "pussification" of education. In the context of his comments, that meant the weakening or feminization of education.

So "pussy" is feminine and weak, while "balls" is masculine and strong. And, interestingly, usually a person with courage HAS balls but someone who does not IS a pussy. But point that out to most people who use those metaphors and they will usually say, "Oh, it's just an expression." As if "jew him down" or "nigger-rigging" are not "just expressions, too.

"Jane" is just a name, but ask a man to name his baby boy that and see what kind of reaction you get! At the same time, more and more girls are given traditionally masculine names like Alex, Sam, or Ryan (note how many women on police shows have these names) because it's OK for a woman to be more like a man, but it's definitely taboo for a man to be more like a woman.

Words are powerful, but the recipients of prejudicial language are very often labeled "too politically correct" because they object to being insulted.

It placed Senator Clinton is a coveted position of being a power broker in her own right.
=======================
tom
Florida Drug Rehab

I need a douche

I'm all for equality of the sexes... but really, the sexes aren't equal by nature. There's things that women are naturally better at than men (pain tolerance for one), and there's things that men are naturally better at than women. Each gender has it's roles in creating and maintaining healthy societies. Should a woman make less money than a man doing the same job? Hell no! Should women be sexualized and taught that 'hotness' matters? Hell No! But we need our moms to be moms and our dads to be dads... and not blur the lines between them.

As well, there is a LOT of negative aspects of the feminist movement, with the most glaring being the "SCUM MANIFESTO". http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm Talk about hate speech!

Anyways... We should just all be ourselves and not buy into any of the crap the mainstream society, feminist, anti-feminist, bible thumpers, angry gays, happy gays, and anyone else for that matter tells us we have to be.

BE who you are and be happy. Love your family and friends and do right by people. Plain and simple. The rest is crap.

"Take being called a bitch as a compliment. Because it means you're doing something right."

Ummmm... no... If someone calls you a bitch, chances are you're being mean and rude... nothing to be proud of there. Teaching young women that to get ahead you have to be a 'bitch' is so wrong. That just plays into society's sickness. Whatever happened to being nice? There's nothing wrong with being soft and feminine. In fact, that's one of the things I like best about women, that they're not hard and aggressive like men. I like women. I don't like bitches.

elmysterio says, "we need our moms to be moms and our dads to be dads… and not blur the lines between them."

What??? Does that mean moms get to make the beds, do the laundry, wash the dishes,and change the diapers while dads get to "wear the pants" and go to work and maybe coach little league? Or is it just some nebulous notion that "everyone understands" but can't be articulated?

I have relatives who decided to reverse the traditional roles. The "dad" stayed home and took care of the kids from the time they were born, while the "mom" taught school. Does that "blur the lines"?

So, aside from actually bearing the child for women and physical strength for men, what exactly is it that women inherently do better compared to men and vice versa? Are women really somehow more nurturing, more compassionate, more intuitive while men are more logical, more mathematically inclined, more stoic?

Incidentally, it's been my experience that women of my acquaintance are far more logical than the men I know. This goes against standard cultural teachings. "Feminine logic" is an oxymoron according to the jokes. I'm sure that there are many people whose experience is the opposite of mine. It comes down to opinion.

So who decides what "being a mom and being a dad" entails and what "blurring the lines" means?

And, yeah, there are some vitriolic anti-masculine rants out there. But this is most assuredly not about feminism. I am a hard-core feminist, and I am very, very happily married to a most wonderful man. I love men in a lot of different ways (my husband in one way, my sons in another, my friends and family members in others.) I am so fortunate in having a lot of feminist sympathizers among them.

There are also some men who have extreme contempt for women and make no attempt to hide it. Lots of men, especially in the past but they still exist, like to have women for their use (like sex, keeping house, as ornaments), but make no bones about wanting men and men only as "real" friends. Calling someone "a man's man" is not an insult, but a high compliment to a lot of guys. If a woman said she was a "woman's woman" it would likely be construed as a man-hating position.

Looking at the big picture, men and society in general are much more likely to look down at women or be contemptuous of them than women are to be that way about men. Some men are just really, really sensitive to it when women turn the tables. Oh. Right. It's women who are supposed to be too sensitive. Oops.

Labeling, fingerpointing and stereotyping are among America's great national pasttimes (borrowing from the late, great Phil Oakes). It keeps us from having to examine our own faults.

I have always worked in male dominated trades, like trucking and heavy equipment operation, etc. and was often stereotyped from the 1970's through the 1980's and into the 1990's when I retired.

I recall, back in 1991, one old man in Wisconsin whom I had just passed on a busy highway on the way to Milwaukee in a far nicer vehicle than he was driving. Another driver made a comment to me on the two-way radio to which I responded. It was something about how long it took for one car that was passing me to get all the way past my vehicle before I could enter the passing lane.

The old man got on the radio and started berating me for being there at all because I was female concluding his diatribe with, "...so why don't you just shut up and drive that truck like a man!!"

As I passed him, I recognized him from years earlier on the docks as an adamant woman hater. So I simply waited for him to finish berating me and then responded with, "Well, first of all, I'm a woman so I can't drive this truck like a man and wouldn't want to since repairs are so costly and inefficient. Secondly, being a woman, I have a god-given right to be a bitch. So what's your excuse, bicth?"

The radio waves were alive with kudos to me for not putting up with his trashy talk about me. The rest of the comments were directed toward the old fart referring to him as a bitch with much chiding and ridcule. He left the highway at the next exit for a spell.

I usually had a big, powerful, pretty, and very fast vehicle most of the years I drove, which was really rough on the egos of all those anti-women-driver boys.

And then, when they were truly obscene and verbally brutal, I would wear my "drivin' dress" just to really get them ticked off. I even loaded freight by hand in it and nobody ever saw anything they were hoping to catch a glimpse of. I am only one hundred and ten pounds fully dressed with an unattended shapely figure. You throw 40,000lbs of freight in a day, you can keep a nicely toned figure no sweat.

In the past when I was a road warrior a woman in a truck was openly considered to be a prostitute first, maybe somebody's wife otherwise, nothing more and generally considered worthless if you weren't giving out free sex acts to whomever was interested in getting "lucky". I was out there as a single woman running solo... trailblazing, and making lots of money at it and NOT having sex at all. The competition was tough, but so am I ~ maybe even more so.

Most guys had to admit that I was doing my job just fine when they saw that I was throwing freight without help and no man around to deal with the paperwork or backing the trailer up to the dock. I was often greeted with some quip about bra-burning women's lib stuff to which I responded, "...you know, I've been working too hard to pay attention to all that stuff." Which usually disarmed the quippers. I don't go for labeling of any kind, therefore, I may behave as what might be deemed feminist-like but I don't accept that label.

Rockerbabe1 June 25th, 2008 1:03 pm -- 'Feminism is all about changing the way people think, talk, act and treat women.'

Some of it is. A lot of it seems more focussed on men.

STFU Bitch.

I'm surprised at how many men feel that this post is somehow a threat to them. I didn't feel any of that when I read it, but then I don't own a Hummer either.

One comment I should make about Ms. Clinton is that from my perspective it wasn't her gender that turned me off (I would be a very strong supporter of someone like Ms. Boxer), but things like her support of the Iraq mess, supporting an amendment outlawing flag burning, voting to authorize Bush to use military force against Iran even though she claims that isn't what it says, and similar actions where she betrayed progressive principles. I can't say why she did it, because she believed they were the right thing to do or just tactical maneuvers to show how tough she was, but in either case, I didn't want her finger on the button.

What I've never understood are the women who use these derogatory labels against other women, with even more venom than most men do.

They're the real BITCHES in my estimation - in capitals.

Holy crap. It stills amazes me after all this time how many so-called progressives are still just gender fundamentalists, ardent believers in the oldest and most pernicious religion on earth. Gender is a social construction built around a very few, very specific, and (when it comes to the important stuff) very irrelevant phenotypic manifestations. It's a social control mechanism of the highest sort; no other masquerades as "the natural order" with such all-consuming power. Even "progressives" who have no problem rebelling against the enforced social controls and divisions of class or race (also both once thought "natural" and inviolate borders), will become cowards and infantile reactionaries when faced with the slightest challenge of gender orthodoxy. See above.

Radical feminism is a vehicle by which this system of power, the global religion of patriarchy, might be examined and ultimately dismantled. This is good for all people, including male people, many if whom are corrupted by the social privilege this religion bestows unearned upon them.

I'm a man.
I opposed Hillary, and will in any election.
I support Cynthia McKinney and have volunteered for her campaigns in the past when I lived in GA.
Does that make it clear its not based on just gender chromosomes?
I got the impression that more of Hillary's SUPPORT was gender chromozome based than Hillary's opposition was. Is it more sexist to oppose a candidate based on gender than to support a candidate based on gender?

-------------
Heck, I think we need more good ol fashioned in your face feminism. I've been wondering where they went! The world is usually a better place where they are raising heck. Heck, the world is usually a better place where anyone with energy and drive is raising heck.

"What??? Does that mean moms get to make the beds, do the laundry, wash the dishes,and change the diapers while dads get to "wear the pants" and go to work and maybe coach little league?"

That's your assumption isn't it? I never said that at all. I also started writing this big long reply to your post LeeAnnG, but then deleted it with the thought "What's the point, you won't understand what I'm saying anyways".

But think about this: Do children feel IDENTICALLY towards their Mom as they do their Dad? Nope, they don't. They get DIFFERENT things from each parent. When my child hurts themselves, they want Mama... when they wanna play rough and tumble, they want me... Mom's a pushover, I'm the authoritarian. I cook, Mom cleans. I wash, she folds. But when it comes right down to it, I am the head of household and have the primary responsibility of protecting and caring for the family as a whole...

But in my opinion, Feminism in it's current form is destructive to the family and blurs gender identity. Now you have all these young women behaving like men. I know you probably won't look at this seriously, but I'm a fan of Dr. Henry Makow and what he says about feminism. Have a look... http://www.henrymakow.com/

what's needed is for liberals to come out of their denial that feminism has a bad reputation unjustifiably. the posts here make it clear that some progressives know the difference between feminist analysis, policy and rhetoric and the stated goals of feminism and some see the natural healthy growth and evolution from one stage of understanding to another as a 'threat'. a threat to all that's holy and good and not simply a threat to the cult of feminism that is more interested in people accepting feminism as their lord and savior than facilitating love and understanding between the sexes that does necessarily imply that women as well as men grow meaning outgrow feminism's mythology; feminists not just traditionalists.the typical denial is that any hatred or propaganda or discrimination against men is 'not real feminism' so feminists don't have to take responsibility for themselves as they'd have everyone else do. the revolution required is that we develop a new way to talk about the sexes past present and future that holds both sexes accountable no exceptions no excuses. that will mean an admission of harm and hypocrisy and failure that will be embarrassing for liberals to face but like the left says in matters of sex education 'nobody ever died of embarrassment but plenty have died for want of the truth.' predictably feminist brain washed people can only interpret dissent in the left as 'men threatened by positive change because they were socialized to do so and it's all about power and control and male privilege blah blah blah' whilst characterizing their own dissent towards traditionalism as heroic and harmless. there is life after feminism- there'd better be because there's no life left in it.

Last night I was searching the web for George Carlin videos to watch to celebrate the man (click my name for links on my blog ... scroll down a bit).

So, when I saw the title to this piece after hours of George last night, "F-word" didn't translate to 'feminist' in my mind.

The other F-word works well also. Just say it, we need a f@#$%ing revolution.

I grew up in a house where my mom had a sticker on the refrig that read ....

"Feminism is the radical belief that women are people too"

Samson,

I like your mom's sticker... Says it best in my language.

"And, yeah, there are some vitriolic anti-masculine rants out there. But this is most assuredly not about feminism."

Yeah, that's like saying "There's some racist rants out there but not all skinhead Nazis are bad". By minimizing things like the "SCUM Manifesto", you're no better than what you claim to be against...

You also said: "Looking at the big picture, men and society in general are much more likely to look down at women or be contemptuous of them than women are to be that way about men. Some men are just really, really sensitive to it when women turn the tables. Oh. Right. It's women who are supposed to be too sensitive. Oops."

I say bullshit to that... for 1) Look at TV... Dads on TV are ALWAYS bumbling idiots while the Mom is hot and cool. 2) You have no evidence to backup your assertion that men are more likely to be contemptuous of women than visa-versa.... How many times have I heard one of my 'girl friends' say "Men are scum", etc... 3) Never said that men aren't sensitive. That's your thinking, not mine. In fact, I'm quite sensitive and a feeler. You're just perpetuating stereotypes with no logic what-so-ever. So we take 1000s of years of gender roles and eradicate them cuz men and women are the SAME... but we're not the same... nor should we be. That's the beauty of man/woman relationships.

LeeAnnG June 25th, 2008 1:30 pm

I feel that there is a very valid point in this first post. Words do matter.

Personally I think women are among God's greatest invention and can be the greatest friend and partner you could have.

This is just a pointless promo for weak-ass faux feminism espoused by Jessica Valenti and the little girls at Feministing-- Antonia doesn't mention Valenti's first book features a cover with nothing but a bare female torso. And take a look at the Feministing logo -- it's like a third of the Charlie's Angels logo. Other feminists haven't failed to notice.

These women are women's studies majors who think all second wavers are white middle class racists. They are reformist at best and there is nothing radical or in your face about them.

This is more revisionist faux-feminism.

It amazes me how ignorant men and many women are of feminism. Along with the civil rights movement, feminism was the most important movement of the second half of the 20th century. Feminism was at the top of the list for the Right Wing backlash that started a generation ago. Evidently, given the posts here, they were quite successful. If you have never read any feminist books, it's time to start.

It strikes me that one's position on feminism could be the litmus test for progressives. Not pro-feminist, you're not really a progressive.

RINDRYL: Excellent post.

LUNAFISH: I salute your bravery!

LEE ANN: I applaud your post (1:30), but wish to dig deeper there. You put forth the evidence that men are diminished by being called PUSSY, but don't explore WHY that is. The basis for this misogyny is in part a construct of patriarchal beliefs and RELIGIOUS CONDITIONING that has alloted to men the false SENSE that God is a masculine human being with extensive powers, and there is no FEMININE counterpart.

I've always marveled at the ostensible misogyny of the Catholic Church in naming the women who give their lives to serve there, NUNS as in NONE. Certainly NONE makes sense given their lack of power, or the authority to influence any decisions coming down the ranks from the top pinnacle of the church hierarchy. (Anyone see Fellini's ROMA--the papal fashion show scene is one of the greatest mockeries of all time.) In the Muslim world, in many areas women must be covered up because their being DESIRABLE is the sin, not how MEN react to that desire. Similar with the allegory of EVE offering an apple to Adam. He takes it, but she is blamed. Has she ever NOT been blamed since the church began to influence the thought processes of milliions of people down the centuries? It's no great equality fest with Judaism, either.

The legacy of the SPIRITUAL BIAS insofar as alloting DIVINE privilege to males and NOT to females finds itself rooted in language patterns that are just taken as banal these days. The basis for WHY gender "slights" are considered so insulting to men is due to the imbalance of power, and its essence began with religious theology, a system of unfair "laws" that disable feminine expression (outside the home) for centuries. The net loss to humanity is evident in that today the greatest achievement--certainly where this nation puts the lion's share of its money--is making war, you know a little thing that the angry god MARS demands as homage and has NOTHING to do with Jesus, compassion, mercy, or turning the other cheek.

Altering language may be a start, and feminism has certainly empowered many women; but many have no understanding of the roots of sexism. LUCKY LEFTY can add his cynical erudition to this point as he often speaks of the gender slavery aspect to capitalism and the control by, for and through fiscal elites.

Kinda sad that some women still think being a "bitch' is a plus. It isn't. It just means you're an asshole in women's clothes.

Men who act like assholes aren't much appreciated either.

I guess we've reached gender equality. Hillary wants to slaughter as many helpless women and children as the next guy.

Yipee.

I too think that LeeAnnG 1:30 made a great and important point and I was really happy to read it! Thank you!

A friend of mine recently told me about what his wife calls the "glass ceiling" - "the thick layer of men" as in "I have hit the thick layer of men". Aside from it being one of the funniest and true lines ever, it was told to me by a man! A man who sees the sexism out there in government, academia, work, relationships and families and isn't threatened by it because he knows it's not about him directly. And interestinly enough, we can see it among this small "progressive community" that sexism exists here too.

What I really wanted to say, in yet another way, is how sexisim is so deeply engrained in our language and writing that any written description at all, unless it is refering directly to a female, is always refered to as male i.e. "he" or "him" and when reading, I so often have to change that word in my head and say "they" or "she" or something else to make it gender nuetral. It happens even in writing about animals I've noticed. Male / masculine is dominant in our language and culture and it exists in every little corner and crevasse. And some times, even in our own mother's and girlfriends.

I agree that there is plenty of sexism in the culture. I agree that Hilary Clinton was abused by sexism in her race. I also think there are really good reasons not to have supported Clinton, reasons that have nothing to do with her sex. I think it's a mistake to assume that all or even most opposition to Hilary is the result of sexism.

elmysterio:

Separate but equal is unequal. Who the fuck are you to tell women what their "role" is or when they are "acting like men" (read: getting out of line!)? You wonder why women are pissed off and would like to see men eradicated and humbled and conquered, look at the prejudice and oppression you support.

Men like you make me sick. We need more Red Sonjas in this world.

Men's dominance is over soon. Boys, much more than girls, gravitate to video games growing up.

Shouldn't take long.

Yes, elmysterio, you are obviously deeply stupid and insensitive. Offensive like 10 on the richter scale; you want all women to "be soft and feminine?"

How can you say that without blushing in shame you are dense as Oak, no offense.

Signed, Soft & Feminine.

elmysterio:

Unlike Kitty_tc above, I totally understood your post and also believe that you're right about mom and dad not being equal; we're not (thank goodness!). I think your 2nd sentence sunk you, but the end of your post should have cleared things up for those quick to jump on you.

Even my dog senses that my husband should be the alpha in our household, although I'm a stronger physical presence than he is.

I'm a retired firefighter, and my husband is a physical therapist. I worked in a male dominated field so I made more money than my husband who works in a female dominated field.

My experience in the FD taught me that some men came to work to get away from their wives, and some men liked women in the firehouse because we broke up the crudeness of the environment.

I also learned over the years that people can change. One very sexist firefighter told me to my face that he believed women had their place and it wasn't in the firehouse, but, he added that it didn't mean he wouldn't work with me. We had the best working relationship because I always knew where he was coming from. Years later, when I was retiring, he let me know that I taught him something about women and now he's encouraging his two daughters to do whatever they want in life. One is now a firefighter in our old dept.

I also learned that the FD is still hiring sexist males because the other women tell me their stories. While we can teach some to treat women with more respect, we simply can't expect there to never be sexism, just like there will always be racism and poverty.

How long have we been dealing with this issue now?

Across history---and by that I mean precisely, not the vast majority of our civilized time, but the great minority of human ages when men have been writing things down and taking social control---men have assigned the same terms to women, to nonwhites, to the Earth and nature: you can look across their "literature" of sexism, racism etc. and find exactly the same phrases and complexes (indeed) of pseudo-ideas from The Bible to Mein Kampf (and in W, back again)....It is like a precise list of a kind of man's psychotic-level fears (NOT all men, now or in the past); "his" terrors and nightmares, and the pattern is that "he" tries to cripple what he most fears from the get-go with insults, degradations and abuse, as if he knows that in a fair match, he's really not up to it at all....I really think that as in life, so in our social life and politics: when we really stand up to these pathetic bullies, they fold---Drag them into the human sunshine and they wither into ghouls....So I sure wish we had somebody to vote for on that level. Obama is now going down the toilet where Hillary fell first, selling their souls before they even get out of the starting gate....We must drag these monsters to the sunshine....

Very interesting blog Siouxrose. I appreciate your perspectives about religion. I wonder if our power to carry and bear(or not)the future of mankind is a threat to men? I think it is more complicated than that. Men's brain's are largely devoted to thinking about sex. I don't think they can help it. What I wish is that men could mate for life like geese. It seems like moral character isn't as developed as "doing what comes natural". I think that men must know this handicap is a detriment to society and religious observance in most faiths. But they can't help the way they are wired. So men have had to overcompensate and blame others (women) for their inabilities to control their language, thoughts and behaviors. And God help he who is wired with more homosexual tendencies. It just doesn't help men to blame women for their shortcomings if they accept this curveball. We really are kind of like rabbits if not socialized to mate for life. But we still are like rabbits with clothes and religious rules anyway.

If one really wants to enjoy in being female, there are some humorous comments that affirm our upper hand as women. First of all, if one bores men to death by talking about baby rabbits and beany babies or whatever, take pride in emasculating the conversation and tell the male who is suffering of your happiness with success in this endeavor.Also,being called "b----" means that the other party is angry or afraid of you or themself. In negotiating, he who makes the other angry has the upper hand. It's about not letting others define you. Anyone who tells a woman what she thinks or who she is should send up a warning to discard that insight. If you want to be really aggressive, tell the offending party you are releasing pheromones into the room and there is nothing they can do about it. And my final bit of wisdom: women must be descended from Eve because most of us really like apples and being nurturing females, want to share them with unsuspecting men who are gullible enough to do anything as long as they can look at our boobs. Adam and Eve were naked, remember?Women, take pride in your complicatedness. If you like apples, then it is God's plan that men can be easily manipulated. Sorry guys. We like you anyway.

Wow. I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this, but I never cease to be amazed at the contradiction between feminist=good, misogynist=bad. They both seem to me to be generally similar concepts, simply inverted.

I don't believe gender is a social construction. I have had the first hand experience of knowing what my gender was from my earliest memories, and had to deal with decades of people telling me that I was to be defined by them based on my body parts, or my genes, my secondary sex characteristics, or the way I was socialized. They were wrong. We are all born with a gender identity and it cannot be changed. It's just that most people's gender identity matches their body, their genes, their secondary sex characteristics, and their socialization. So they simply make the mistake of assuming identity is a social construction. But not everybody has that experience.

I know that transsexual people are a taboo topic in progressive circles, and particularly in feminist literature. In fact, few groups have done so much harm to the trans community as feminists. In Janice Raymond's 1979 book The Transsexual Empire, she spouted a level of vitriol towards transwomen that has not be matched since, calling us rapists, imposters, man-made, and get this: 'agents of the patriarchy.' Yet they have been remarkably silent about all the female to male transsexuals who are - from their point of view - abandoning feminism, and defecting. When feminists start addressing the implications of female to male transsexuals on their ideological constructs, I'll start taking them more seriously, but for now I think it is just another belief system.

I completely understand and support the efforts of all people to achieve equality of opportunity in society. But I do not agree with the effort to turn a willfully blind eye to biological and other differences that exist between men, women, and people who are somewhere in between or admixtures of the two. I do not think that bashing men is a particularly useful method to raise the value of women in a culture.

It seems to me that it is not particular women that are under attack, as much as it is femininity itself. The question I have been struggling with for some time is: why is femininity scapegoated by this culture? How have all assessments of value tilted towards the side of masculinity, and discarded feminine value? For me, I see these questions tied very closely with the destruction of the planet; they are in complicated ways entangled, and they need to be untangled. I'm just not finding that analysis in the feminist literature.

MD Leonard Shlain wrote an insightful book called "Sex, Time and Power: How Woman's Sexuality Shaped Human Evolution."

From the back cover--

Big-brained Homo Sapiens emerged 150,000 yrs ago specifically because of female sexuality. The narrowness of the newly bipedal human female's pelvis and the increasing size of infant's heads precipitated a crisis for the species. Natural selection allowed for the adaptation of the female to this environmental stress by reconfiguring her hormonal cycles, entraining them with the periodicity of the moon. The results did much more than ensure our existence; they imbued women with the concept of time, and gave them control over sex--a power that males sought to reclaim. And the possibility of achieving immortality through heirs drove men to construct patriarchal cultures that went on to dominate so much of human history.

dkm. i guess some were threatened, but i wasn't in the least. an average article about something that i support- not all men behave defensively and act as though they are somehow threatened by women striving for liberation.
on another note, however, i do feel trepidation about labels. i know it's an old nut, and people can call themselves whatever they want, but i believe that it generally ends up confusing and confounding what people are actually talking about. one person's feminism may be another's nightmare. same goes for other labels. it also makes it easier for reactionaries to dismiss, etc.
like i said, not a new idea but i can't shake it.

I'm not a feminist but . . .
In the late thirties I wanted to take Shop because I wanted to learn to use all the tools, but only boys took Shop.
First I checked my schedule. I could fit Shop in. Then I went to the Shop teacher, Mr. Stevens, and said that I wanted to take Shop. He said to talk to Mr. Squiers, the Principal. I went to Mr. Squiers' office and made my request. Mr. Squiers said I could not take shop because I might get hurt. I countered that I was willing to use just the hand tools.
I was not allowed to take Shop.
Fast forward to World War II. I married, became pregnant and my husband was shipped overseas. It made sense to continue my briefly interrupted education at Pratt Institute, in Brooklyn.
I was studying Industrial Design in the Art School and everything was fine. Then I was called into the office of Dean Boudreau who said that it had come to his attention that I was pregnant and he said I could not continue my studies. I told him that I was married but apparently that wasn't the point. Thinking that it
might have to do with esthetics, I told Dean Boudreau that I looked much better than a particular teacher in the School of Architecture who was obese. That wasn't the point either.
Dean Boudreau seemed to think that a pregnant woman was very delicate and unable to safely do things that an unpregnant woman could do.
So I contacted my Doctor in Pennsylvania who sent a letter by return mail "To whom it may concern", in which he stated that pregnancy was not pathological, that it was a normal condition, that Betty Quick was strong and healthy and that she should have no problem fulfilling her course requirements.
My efforts resulted in a compromise. Dean Boudreau said that I could continue my studies unofficially as "a guest of the school", getting no credit and paying no fees.
I am not a feminist because . . . I haven't learned how being a feminist or joining NOW can help me do what I want to do. Like being instrumental in starting a local currency group and starting a community garden, raising awareness of the need for greater local self sufficiency especially in food, promoting conservation and efficiency through letters to the editor, public input at City Council meetings and working with like-minded people.
Locally I can make a difference. On the bigger stage I am not achieving my number one goal, which is to leave my great grandchildren a world as good as the one in which I grew up. I've been working on it for about 40 years with no appreciable results.

I oppose nuclear weapons/nuclear power -- two sides of the same coin

Is there gender bias? Hell yes! Is there racism? Hell yes! Is there Homophobia? Hell yes! Is there discrimination based upon looks? Hell yes! So whats the answer? Hell, unless we try to learn, teach and become more loving and tolerant of others and come to terms with the darkness and prejudice we all harbor in our hearts and reject that darkness in ourselves and others.

What about men and women joining up for the Fucking Revolution for what the world needs now.

Firefem June 25th, 2008 9:54 pm

That was a wonderful post.
It should remind everyone how far we hasve come and also remind those that are impatient that you can't change things overnight.

"Is there gender bias? Hell yes! Is there racism? Hell yes! Is there Homophobia? Hell yes! Is there discrimination based upon looks? Yes!"

Yes there is. But its not nearly as much as everyone likes to say it is. And its declining except for a radical minority. There will always be some, but thats their problem.

"You wonder why women are pissed off and would like to see men eradicated and humbled and conquered, look at the prejudice and oppression you support."

I don't know any women like this and I know a lot of strong, talented, smart to brilliant women.

Litmus test? Who determines the "litmus"

New rules:

With apologies to my gay and lesbian friends out there – I wrote this from MY perspective. Please understand.

Men: When you are out on the town, and meet a woman you're interested in, don't lie to her. If you are married – tell her. If you have an STD, tell her. If you're a jerk, tell her. She may still say yes.

Women: Ditto

Men: Do not interfere with women's health issues - availability of procedures, medicines, devices. When you feel the urge to do so, go pound sand. This applies to all courts, especially the miserable conservatives on the Supreme Court. This MOSTLY applies to people who believe their religion tells them it's okay to interfere with other peoples' private lives. Go pound sand.

Women: Act your age. I wouldn't have noticed this had I stayed in Colorado, but since moving to Ohio – I've seen how stupid too many women are. Don't talk in submissive voices unless you LIKE to be dominated and LIKE to be paid less than a man in the same job. Grow up.

Women: If you have the uncontrollable need to talk endlessly about mind numbing topics, find another woman who is the same way and have at it. Leave the rest of us – men and women – out of it. A personal thank you from me.

Men: Support men's organizations that work to combat male violence against women and other living beings. Talk with your male buddies about this issue and make sure they KNOW where YOU stand – against violence! Don't ever physically hurt a woman. If you feel the urge, get help.

Women: Likewise, don't physically hurt men and don't put up with any man who hurts you. Run – don't walk. Get out of there.

Men: Stay the hell away from underage females. (And to the very small number of women to who this applies – ditto for underage males.)

Men: It's not all about you. You are not king except to that special woman in your life. Stop believing that the rest of us are interested in everything you have to say. We might be – then again we might NOT be. Stop trapping us in offices and at company parties, talking nonstop about your self, your children, your golf score, and especially not your prostate check up.

Women: When a man talks nonstop about himself and you're checking your watch every 5 seconds, interrupt with something you are interested in. If he changes it back – excuse yourself to go to the rest room. They don't follow us there.

Men AND Women: Focus on the good. Do for one another and ask the other to do their share if they're not. Ask. Ask kindly. Be loving. Give and take. Don't destroy. Thou shall not kill also means don't destroy one another's dreams and hopes and intentions. Work things out. Say goodbye when it's the right thing to do. It's okay for a woman to cook a meal for a man and for the man to change the oil in her car. It's also okay to switch roles. Make every effort to be good in bed – either alone or with a partner (haha couldn't resist that one). Treat children and animals with love and respect. Treat everyone with love and respect. It ain't easy but in my experience it always – always – turns out to be the right thing to do. And there's no better feeling than doing the right thing.

It's a tough world out there. We are not enemy to one another. Watch out for one another.

I've got my eye on you.

Gender inequality begins with the ability of a man to force himself upon a woman sexually. Perhaps at the beginning of humankind this was necessary for the perpetuation of the species, but somewhere along the line it just became all about power, period.

The biological need for a man to be able to overpower a woman in order to reproduce turned into tacit permission for a man's every need and desire to overpower those of women.

As Siouxrose pointed out, religion has finely honed this concept so that many people actually believe this is the way "God" wants "His" world to be.

Juliann June 26th, 2008 12:14 pm

An absolute great post! None better and the best advice around. And thanks for a word for the battered men....they are seldom mentioned.

"You are not king except to that special woman in your life. Stop believing that the rest of us are interested in everything you have to say. We might be – then again we might NOT be. Stop trapping us in offices and at company parties, talking nonstop about your self, your children, your golf score, and especially not your prostate check up."

This is especially true. I've seen friends get trapped this way. Heck, it irritates me too.

Thank you, Thomas More.
Ditto, Juliann, great post.
What an eye opening experience I got at 26 years old going into one of the last male bastions in America. I had the idea that I couldn't be feminine in the fire dept. I tried for two years to act like my male coworkers so I could be accepted by them. They didn't like that I burped, farted and swore like the best of them. Then, I tried femininity. They didn't like that either. So, I resorted to trying to "be myself", but didn't know what that was in the context of being a woman in a perceived "man's" job. I figured it out along the way, but it was messy none the less. It's just hard for some to accept the values of those that are different than what one was raised with.

I should also add that I was single when I was hired on the FD in 1984 and noticed a definite change in how most of the men treated me after I married. It was as though a huge weight was lifted from them that I was now "taken" and not (in their minds only) available to them. I noticed this change in their behavior but it confused me because I never considered dating any one of the 120 men I worked with, well, because I worked with them.

I also found out when I was pregnant that some men secretly wished a boy baby on me because I stood up for gender equality in the firehouse (we didn't have separate bathroom/locker room facilities when I was first hired). I also insisted that people refer to us as "firefighter" instead of "fireman" to give children a gender neutral perspective when touring the station.

So, when it came out that some men wanted me to have a boy, I'd retort with "I hope I have a boy too, so I can raise him to be a good little feminist". I got their wish and couldn't be happier.

Firefem June 26th, 2008 12:40 pm

I should have mentioned that my Father was in the Dallas Fire Dept for 20 years and my Grandfather was a Captain in the DFD for 43 years. So I understand what you are talking about pretty much as to the change in the FD thru he years.

I went into business when I came home, I wasn't near brave enough to be a Firefighter. Most people don't know its the most dangerous profession in America.

Apologies to the rest of you for personal stuff, but just for Firefem....my Dad passed away in February and he choose the FD Chaplain rather than the Marine Chaplain and the Last Bell to ring him home to the station for the last time and the FD Piper over the Marine Rifle squad.

The reason I tell you is because he was extremely proud to have been a Marine, he served in the hottest fighting in the Pacific, but he choose the DFD as his last honor. You understand what I'm saying I know.

Proud of you.

Pax

Firefem – I like you! My sister in law was a volunteer for the local fire squad for seven years. She always said how much she loved it and she was always the first up the ladder when there was a multi-story fire – she has no fear of heights and the men would part and let her through and she'd dash up the ladder and be first into the burning bldg. Unfortunately the squad changed – for the worse – and the males (not men) would call her to come in on a Saturday – she'd change plans – race to the station only to be told they wanted her to wash down the fire trucks and clean the place up. Her morale was bruised and battered and she finally resigned. She even took down the photos of herself in her uniform – taken on parade days with the rest of the squad. Too bad the males on that squad couldn't stop seeing her as the *enemy* and partner with her for the good of the community.

Imagine. Big tough men afraid of a 5'4" 130 lb woman.

Re: lunafish June 25th, 2008 4:33 pm

Yours was the best post I've read in a year, lunafish.

I'd be proud to have you as a friend.