KEM PATRICK June 23rd, 2008 11:53 am wrote:

. "Get a rope".

. No, _____"lots of ropes".

. But wait, I'm against capital punishment. Hmmmmm. .
. How about banishment to a Pacific Island that's
. highest elevation is 30 feet above sea level?
. Let em take their Cadillac SUVs.
--------------------
Actually KEM, you are too nice. I would like to have them confined to villas under the hot sun in IRAQ. Give them their guards so that they can hopefully remain alive for a long time. Even give them air conditioning and let them run it full out for all I care.

But make certain that these villas are in locations that maximize the executive's exposure to DU dust in air and water and do not allow the executives to minimize this exposure to their persons in any way. The dust is evil and is the product of great evil. In Dante's hell these executive's bodies would eternally and painfully suffer the ravages caused by the use of DU in the invasions and aggressions waged in part for their access to oil and power. It would be justice. It would be fair. How could these executives object to living under the conditions they played such an important part in creating for others.

And I would hope that these villas in Iraq would be recognized in the future as place of refuge for the neo-cons, and for Blair, Pelosi and other enablers when they must flee justice for their crimes in the forceable occupation of Iraq and the creation and continuance of misery there in our names. When the time comes when there is nowhere else in the world where they can avoid justice there will be these villas suitable for "the special people" to live without constantly looking over their shoulder in fear of seeing their pursuers.

Possibly some MSM executives might vacation there too, though it may be useful for them to spend some time on one of those low beachfront tropical paradises.

Hi ~RoR~ It is not "dissent" they may be guilty of. They should be charged and FAIRLY tried for insuring that the truth of our current global warming and it's actual CAUSE was purposfully altered and done so for the purposes of power and greed.

Our court system is far from perfect, but the truth most often rises to the top. If they are not guilty, allow a fair trial, a judge and a jury to decide. If they are only guilty of utter stupidity and ignorance, then set them free to roam in their utter shame and perhaps they will be removed from their elevated positions and repaced with others who are not so stupid or ignorant.

If on the flip side of the coin however, they are declared to be guilty as charged, then they are guilty of the most serious crimes ever committed by man against both humanity and the Earth. They should stand trial ~RoR~.

"It is always the business of a judge in a trial to find out the truth."

~Cicero~ De officlus, book ii chap 14.

Hi there ~Siouxrose~, missed you for awhile here. How ya been? How's the new grandchild?

Yes indeedy ~RAND B~ and we need another trial for those who hide or alter the truth about the use of DU as weapons of war.

(NO, NADA, air conditioning.) I still like the low elevation island with the coming rising waters. Lot of sharks out there in the mid Pacific. Of course if their lawyers are also guilty, I suppose they would be given due respect and professional courtesy from the sharks.

Hooray for Hansen!! We should prosecute Impeach OIL MEN Bush, Cheney, and McCain!! Show the world that McCain stands with the Oil companies, and that he will side with them. He has already collected campaign contributions from Oil. Secondly, have all of you caught on to the marketing campaign the oil companies have engaged since the first part of this year??!! They try to make themselves appear like the good guys, that they are concerned about global warming, YET, they are lying to public by telling them that drilling off shore or in our national parks and wildlife refuges will drop oil prices!!! It would take YEARS before we saw a drop of oil, the price would drop by only a few pennies if that, while they destroy our environment, wildlife and its' habitat, AND create more CO2.

KEM, possibly an occasional commute to the 'cottage' for a break from the hot Iraq sun could be considered. Would ship in some Iraq sand for them to build the cottage on and to filter the water through.

More seriously, I would like to see them tried for their crimes, all of the crimes so that the truth is exposed for posterity. As for punishment I would rather they wait to watch their bodies rot than that they spend their time trying to build a boat. Also restrict them to the care of the public medical system in Iraq when they need treatment.

"When people are freezing to death this winter then maybe we will get some responses from our elected officials because they will not want blood on there hands."

I don't think that they'd give a shit about it at all! So, yes they should go on trial. But, bushco first!

Siouxrose June 23rd, 2008 11:32 pm
Thank you! That wis beautiful.

Pluckistani_Pete June 23rd, 2008 10:58 pm
"...not with President McCain and his hot young wife..."
Outrageously funny! Surely, Souixrose you can feel the sarcasm!

The problem is not the domain of a handful of "chiefs", it's a cultural problem, the indoctrination, propagated by each and every American to some significant extent, except for a very small number of "radical leftists" and you know who you are!!!

KEM. The point is not if the climate is warming, it has, at least over the last 30 years. The point is if the warming we have experienced is due to mans burning of energy that gets released into the atmosphere as CO2.

You can read Glassman or Junk science for another view and then make up your mind. I am sure you have studied the IPCC latest report. Real Climate and Gavin are Hansen disciples.

http://www.rocketscientistsjournal.com/2006/10/co2_acquittal.html

Over the last century, the temperature has increased 0.7 deg C. According to Hansen, a rise of 7 ppm in CO2 would have been sufficient to cause this rise in temperature, instead of the 100 ppm we have experienced. How can this be, especially with solar radiation and solar winds increases over the last century.

Did you know that the CO2 measured from Mauna Loa is located near the Eastern Equatorial Pacific outgassing of most of the oceans CO2. And that the other 7 sites that measure CO2 calibrate their results with each other
(such calibrations can be manipulated by those with an agenda).

Did you know that man emits 7 gigaton (GT) of CO2 into the air each year, and nature emits 208 GT, and that the land and oceans take in 212 GT for an accumulation of 3 GT per year. Yet IPCC assumes natures CO2 is preferentially absorbed, leaving mans behind. So of the CO2 increase from 280 ppm to 380 ppm, perhaps man is responsible for 3 ppm.

They tell you that CO2 will stay in the air a long time, 100 years. Yet the atmosphere contains 720-760 GT, and takes in 212 GT annually, so thats about a mean residence time of 3.5 years.

But then of course you are told CO2 levels are the highest in 650,000 years. The last 420,000 years data came from ice core drilling, where 363 ice core samples were taken. This means we have data from each 1200 year period over a 420,000 year period. Flash forward 420,000 years from today, assuming CO2 levels will not increase and kill the planet, as you have been led to believe, do you think a similar method of determining CO2 levels will detect the higher CO2 levels in the recent 50 years.

The higher CO2 today seems to be a result of the warming, not a cause. Perhaps if it doubles, we will get some temperature rise and the lower end of the models, say 1.5 deg C. But Mother Earth has a fairly good regulatory system, with increasing temperatures we should see more clouds that reflect sunlight, the earth will cool, and the oceans will suck up more CO2, even mans CO2, and CO2 levels will decline.

The other question is does CO2 from whatever it's source really cause global warming. Did you know the upper troposphere and lower stratosphere are cooling, some of it attributed to more CO2 emitting IR radiation absorbed at lower altitudes. Since water vapour is present in very low amounts at high altitude, it may be that CO2 is essential for global cooling in response to warmer temperatures. During an ice age, CO2 likely falls due to it's cooling effect is not needed. We know CO2 levels are low in an ice age, but not the CO2 levels right before the ice age. For example, before the last ice age, we know temperatures increased 15 deg C in a 20 year period. Man did not cause that. CO2 levels must have been high in response to this rapid warming. My hunch is that once the force causing the warming was removed, high CO2 levels remaining acted to amplify the cooling and plunged us into an ice age, and the excess levels of CO2 were then removed from the atmosphere, since it's cooling effects were not needed. And 160 ppm is probably the amount of CO2 required for it's role as a greenhouse gas given much of the radiation was being reflected by the snow and ice, and little IR was being absorbed and then released from the surface.

So look at how CO2 and other GHG do what they do. They absorb photons emitted by the absorbed IR in hotter land or ocean and convert them smoothly into kinetic energy. This increases it's temperature, which causes it to rise, and then cool. It can only emit the photon to a much cooler body. When it encounters one that is able to absorb the photon, it does so. But each emission and re-emission is at a lower and lower energy state. So in the end, except for that energy that gets emitted into space from the stratopshere, much of the absorbed IR gets degraded and contrubutes little to any warming.

Consider also that the atmosphere is already saturated with CO2. There is more CO2 than there is IR to be absorbed from surface emissions. All of the radiation emitted at a wave length that could be absorbed by CO2 is already captured. And CO2 competes for the same energy as H20. More CO2 just means more hungry C02.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas in a house without a roof. It sops up the energy being released near the surface to keep the surface warm in the evening, and then rises into the cooler air above. In the desert, the temperatures decrease very rapidly in the evening despite the fact there is plenty of CO2. Why? Because there is little or no water vapour in the air. So instead of CO2 and water vapour (0.1 in desert - 4% in tropics) capturing all the IR within 10 meters of the surface, CO2 (0.038%) alone does not get it all captured until much higher up, so the surface is cooler. This observation alone proves H20 is much more importnat as a GHG than CO2.

As for Methane. It is measured at 1.7 ppm, twenty times less than CO2, It then gets broken down in the Stratosphere within a decade. Unless there was a huge burst of it in a short time, it's a non issue. It increased by 3 times over the last century, along with CO2's increase, and we only got 0.7 deg C temperature change. For the last decade there has been no increase until last year. What happened, did man take a vacation from releasing methane.

And then there is the Antarctica ice shelves and sea ice we are so concerned about. The sea ice has increased almost 1 million square km over the last 30 years. Sure, there is losses in the West, but did you know there are active volcanoes there. Who can tell. Also, the ozone hole allows more UVB. UVB is about 1.5% of the solar radiation. If only 10% of it got through the ozoneless stratosphere that could increase the temperature 0.4 deg C. The Wilikins ice shelf which broke off recently is belived to have been formed 1000-2000 years ago, perhaps at the end of the little ice age. Its not a permanent shelf.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0328/p25s10-wogi.html

As for the Arctic, yes, we see the melting. It is clear. Think HAARP. There is a lot of oil there, and would be easier to reach w/o all that ice. Blasting the ionosphere to thousands of degrees might be a bad thing for the polar bears.

So anyways, the scientists only have 50 years of legitimate data. They are in no position to be predicting what climate will be in 50 years. By their own admission, they do not fully understand water vapour and the global water cycles impact, since they have little historical data, and water vapour accounts for over 50% of any greenhouse effect, clouds another 15%. They also admit their confidence in solar forcing estimates is low.

Will the climate change in the future? Of course it will. Our climate has always changed throughout history. Can it be predicted with any certainty?. No, not yet.

Before we let them pick out pockets, the science must prove itself. Many of Einsteins theories are being challenged today. The Climate models are not even theories, they are hypothesis, and the models predictions vary widely. Hansens models are at the extreme, and there is NO consensus for his worst case prediction.

When a science forbids being questioned, and global warming seems to be heading in that direction based on this article, then I look back to the days when those who said the earth revolved around the sun were being hung as heretics by the powers that ruled in the day. Good science is not afraid of being questioned. Global Warming science as preached by Hansen seems more like a religion. Most climate scientists are specialists and do good work. It is those who put the pieces together and are influenced by politics that give the science a bad name.

Thinking is good if it leads to one closer to the truth. My dog thinks, but he is clueless. This post is not meant to convince anybody. If it leads you to question your beliefs and look into it some more, then great. The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

These liberal scientist-types don't have what it takes to pull this off, not with President McCain and his hot young wife guarding the chicken house like a pair of foxes.

The oil chiefs are the backbone of our CHRISTIAN NATION. Is that what JESUS would want you to do, tear down the lives of GOD'S Soldiers just to save the ENVIRONMENT? We must have FAITH!

Perhaps our generous CD community can start a fund to reverse the lobotomy suffered by Pluckistani-Pete? Any takers?

KEM: Thank you for doing your best to answer our resident climate change deniers, two of which are quite intelligent in other areas, thus one can only marvel at the magnitude of this blindspot.

We've known that burning damn fossil fuels poses tremendous problems on several counts long before Dr. Hansen's speech 20 years ago. Big Oil plotted against urgently needed change since the mid 70's. So did Detroit. So did much of our bought and sold government. Exhibit 1: George Dubya Bush. Criminal on numerous counts.

KEM: It's a 3 ring circus... the new grand kids, my evolving books, travels, keeping up on CD, running a home, etc. Thanks for asking!

KEN NUTI & SLIM SHADY: Gracias. (I can't tell if "he" is being facetious or serious!)

MiMiCCS: I really think you miss the forest for the trees, perhaps literally. All those numbers! It's like a mind f--k! The point is, look anywhere and NATURE IS DYING. The earth is a marvelous web of species interwoven over many millennia. If a web is broken, spoke by spoke (or srand by strand), the integrity of its holistic system is compromised to the point it may not hold together at all.

The flagrant burning of rain forest, the pollution of our oceans (along coastal regions creating DEAD zones), the isle of plastic that many birds take for jelly fish, the starving 3rd world children pushed off the subsistence eating list thanks to stock traders and their sleazy deals on food items cum fuel, the vanishing species, the bees "on strike," and on and on. Human beings see nature as a thing, not as a living set of systems that we are locked into a symbiotic mutuality with. There is a deficit of GRACE, an inversion of APPRECIATION, an ABSENCE of the SACRED. In my view, much goes to the Judeo-Christian CONCEIT that "god gave man dominion over..." bull shit! Better the view of the indigenous, that we are intended to be stewards of the vast wealth that is not OF the father, but of THE MOTHER, the GREAT mother nature who in concert with the YANG force MAKES this banquet of living things, amazing things, that fill our senses like butterflies and flowers, that clear our lungs like cathedral forests, that wash away our angst, like the flowing rivers. This planet is a masterpiece that has been taken apart, chunk by chunk by those who would rather see a transitory shiny trinket, transactions of paper wealth, while everything around them writhes in pain, slowly dies. Forget the numbers, step outside... and FEEL what's happening!

MiMiCcS: I (and others) have argued against you before and your arguments never change. You deny Global warming because there are "scientists" who disagree with global warming even though this article expressly deals with the reality that oil companies paid for fake scientific reports and just last week it was revealed that the Bush administration also changed governmental reports to lie about the truth and extent of global warming. At some point as you continue to ignore the evidence around you, I have to wonder if you are providing the same function that these fake scientific reports do.

ps.BTW, your extremely long comments are counter productive. who can bother to read through them all when they just go on and on and on........

ps. any one who argues (like MiMiCcS does) that: "Global Warming science as preached by Hansen seems more like a religion" is either an fool or worse (a con man). There is nothing religious about wanting to get to the truth that those in power have very purposefully hidden from the public. Often Republican and neocons (and those who seem to worship power to the exclusion of caring about others) practice "projection;" where they accuse others of the exact behaviour that they themselves are engaged in. The faith that religion requires seems more appropriate to those who deny global warming than to those who recognizes it's reality.

Why does the discussion of climate change continue? It is already here.

This past year we have had a record number of tornadoes each month. The total number exceeds the previous record by over a hundred. Floods are the worst ever. Here in Indiana, the floods were the worst since 1913. Some people will never recover.

There was a comment that the extent of polar ice has increased. Last winter, the extent of arctic ice increased because of the cold. But it was thin ice. The melting so far this year has exceeded that of last year's record-breaking melt. There are maps at the National Snow and Ice center.

http://www.nsidc.org/

In the antarctic, there is yearly accumulative and loss. As of now, the loss exceeds the accumulative.

The Bush administration along with their oil buddies have spent years referring to climate change as "junk science". Bush's favorite authority on the subject was a science fiction writer. (The operative word here is fiction, not science.) There has been a massive PR campaign to distort science, not only in regard to climate change but also about most everything else.

http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/a-to-z-alphabetical.html

After tornadoes a floods came through our area, some religious people came to more door. They started by asking if I believed what was happening was God's judgement on us for wickedness. I said no, it was climate change and our own doing. I added that God had given people the gifts of intelligence and conscience. It was our own choice to ignore them. They weren't happy with me.

Most people would like to be young again. I am 72. The way the world looks now, I am grateful for having had most of my life. Things will get worse.

We have past the "tipping point" of discussion.

There is still discussion about whether climate change is occurring because as this and other articles illustrate, there has been a huge misinformation/propaganda campaign to "muddy the waters." This campaign has been carried out by big business, corporate interests and government. These groups have huge budgets and virtual control of media.

As we take back the media (long live the internet!), and hold people and groups accountable for their lies and their greed, recognition of climate change will only increase. One day (soon!), those responsible for these lies will pay the price. Let justice prevail!

KEM,

You completely misunderstood me. I was talking about the behavior of the sun on geological time scales. Of course the current warming is anthropogenic.

But, where the long term behavior of the sun comes in, is that the last time the biosphere had a very close-call with severe warming, at the end of the Permian Era 250 million years ago, the sun's power output was 1.5-2% lower. If our activities create a similar runaway warming event under current solar flux, the biosphere may not be able to "shake the fever off" this time.

cruxpuppy,

go here:

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/sunspots/

See any sunspots? Actually we are in an unusually long "bottom" of the 11-year sunspot cycle.

...

Hansen deserves the Nobel Prize for his courageous and clairvoyant life-work, and the rest of us deserve the Booby Prize for ignoring it. Exxon executives should be prosecuted or just hunted down for destroying the planet, but the rest of us also deserve lots of credit for being idiot consumer whores, and betraying our responsibility to all future generations.

Hansen has a case. If you want to see the details read the report by the Union of Concerned Scientists http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/ExxonMobil-GlobalWarming-tobacco.html or google a summary.
According to the report, ExxonMobil has funneled nearly $16 million between 1998 and 2005 to a network of 43 advocacy organizations that seek to confuse the public on global warming science.

"ExxonMobil has manufactured uncertainty about the human causes of global warming just as tobacco companies denied their product caused lung cancer," said Alden Meyer, the Union of Concerned Scientists' Director of Strategy & Policy. "A modest but effective investment has allowed the oil giant to fuel doubt about global warming to delay government action just as Big Tobacco did for over 40 years."

Smoke, Mirrors & Hot Air: How ExxonMobil Uses Big Tobacco's Tactics to "Manufacture Uncertainty" on Climate Change details how the oil company, like the tobacco industry in previous decades, has

raised doubts about even the most indisputable scientific evidence
funded an array of front organizations to create the appearance of a broad platform for a tight-knit group of vocal climate change contrarians who misrepresent peer-reviewed scientific findings
attempted to portray its opposition to action as a positive quest for "sound science" rather than business self-interest
used its access to the Bush administration to block federal policies and shape government communications on global warming

"The problem is not political will, it's the alligator shoes - the lobbyists. It's the fact that money talks in Washington, and that democracy is not working the way it's intended to work."

Let the trials begin!

Thank you, Mr. Hansen, for standing up for all these years, and especially, for making a stand today. You are a model of courage.

It would be a start.

A scientist with a conscience, and more than that, going up against the rulers of the world with the truth: may there be a hundred thousand more like him.

Add in the media CEO's that endless repeat the fossil-fuel industry talking points.

And while your at it, put the entire Republican policy establishment ("the government is the problem, not the solution") on trial for overt treason, since the government is we the people.

What will the corporate shills in America do to bury this guy?

King Canute-Hansen. Laughable.

Dos anyone else find it nauseating that we are being..."asked"(read: "TOLD") to "tighten our belts and chip in...make some sacrifices.." etc...in some very scary way's? We are being asked to "Cope" with teh almost...strip search level of "security" at airports..as if an outfit with Saudi Financing could not get their own plane...(if a coke dealer can..??)..that we are being sold on a passel of "laws" that are destroying the U.S Constitution...we are being spied on..w are paying..bizarre prices for everything...with really...no explanation...

AND YET.......The OIL COMPANIES ARE MAKING "RECORD PROFITS"..!!!!!!!!

Where is the Federal Govt. with a lecture on "Chipping in for the war effort" when it come to "RECORD PROFITS"?

We are not talking about mere "PROFITS" here...we are talking about...RECORD PROFITS...how is this being allowed to happen? WHY is this beng allowed to happen? Are we not sitting on the worlds largest oil reserve...? or close to it?...and finally..WHY ARE the OIL COMPANIES DOING THIS? WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON?

I have yet to see this answered...the closest thing to an "Answer" I have found is pretty scary and ...amazingly crass..but that shuld no longer be any surprise..but this one is..

The only "reason" I have found that makes "sense" to me...as in..WRECK THE ECONOMY..GET AWAY WITH IT..FOR ..WHAT?..Well..it looks like it's a .."BAIL-OUT" FOR THE HOUSING AND CREDIT CRISIS...AN INVISIBLE TAX..AND WE ARE PAYING IT..pretty clever really..

These Giant Mega Corporations..invested in everything..are being given ENORMOUS LATITUDE in investing in, speculating on..and profiting from...OIL SPECULATION...so they go broke with bad predatory business practices..wreck the economy..and now..are using our vehicles and the price at the pump to return the money to the coffers...

Of course this only SORT of works for me..because I cannot see that the END RESULT..aka a wrecked economy..is any different..BUT WAIT!...since when has THAT been allowed to get in the way of the Boy's Who Call the Shots?...Uhhhhh..NEVER!?!...So..it makes a kind of twisted sense..Bushco is splitting..allegedly..and who really believes that these..."Men"...WILL SIMPLY WALK AWAY?..Who really believes that these .."Men"...will not do ALL THAT THEY CAN to ...FOUL THE WATER..? Remember..they aren't so much "Leaving" as they are.."Escaping with the loot"...the bigest Robbery/Homicide ever committed..the BUSH DOCTRINE..

They need cover for their crimes..for one thing..and barring WWIII with Iran..((read: attacking Russia in the winter like any good Fascist should...))..so, if it AINT gonna be WWIII...then this is their BACK UP PLAN...Simply lave a SCORCHED EARTH ECONOMY in their WAKE...keep everyone SO FUCKING DISTRACTED..so fucking BUSY...so fucking WORRIED...that they simply do not care what becomes of these "Men"...we simply will not..HAVE THE TIME...to..March..Protest..etc..which they could care less about anyway..as they only concern themselves with MONEY..but hey..what the hell...to busy even to THINK...it is all the same in the end..

Again..for me..the real MYSTERY in all of this is...WHY DESTROY THE ECONOMY? WHY?..THIS IS NOT GOOD FOR BUSINESS...EXCEPT A FEW..LIKE THE ONES WHO BET LONG ON AIR TRAVEL THE DAY BEFORE 9/11..So..WHY?

this is basically ALLOWING..economic suicide..nay..ENCOURAGING economic suicide....

The price of gas..is going o be $6.00 or more...just in time for X-Mass...unless their is...an emergency reality check from this government...which there will not be...They will continue to take everything they can from us...as long as they can..but the OIL companies...? make a SACRIFICE? sheeeit! no way amigo!..no way!

I am totally confused..and discombobulated on this one..all over the place..and it shows...but my final question about all of this..is pretty plain..and I have not seen an "answer" that really makes any real sense..my basic final question:

WHY?

jcrumb, your posts are so much easier to read when there not ALL CAPS, that even though i come across your posts time and again, i think this one was the first i accually read.

its time for INDUSTRIAL HEMP, people wake up! hemp for fuel, hemp for fibre, hemp for food. INDUSTRIAL HEMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The oil companies and the religeous right both learned well from the tobacco companies how to propagate lies. They call it "teaching the controversy". An endless list of "experts" appear on the news to tell everyone how controversial the issue is and amisdst the shouting and arguing of the talking heads, the general public tunes out because, after all, nothing conclusive is apparently known. Only by prosecuting these liars will this process stop.

The carbon ass prints evidenced by CEO inaction and disinformation is finally being raised to the level of criminal by a respected source. I hope that the National Academy of Science joins Mr. Hansen in the effort to prosecute the criminals.

yes yes yes...I have been thinking exactly the same things...hold them responsible for promoting addiction and suppressing alternative energy...much like the tobacco companies.

"Get a rope".

No, _____"lots of ropes".

But wait, I'm against capital punishment. Hmmmmm. How about banishment to a Pacific Island that's highest elevation is 30 feet above sea level? Let em take their Cadillac SUVs.

jcrumb June 23rd, 2008 11:11 am -- 'Again..for me..the real MYSTERY in all of this is…WHY DESTROY THE ECONOMY?'

Your question is predicated on two assumptions about those involved in the destructive processes, neither of which can be taken as valid axioms:
- that the reasons for their actions are concerned with broad economic impacts, and
- that they are sufficently foresighted to correctly forecast such impacts.

Looking for an answer that is based on some rational reason(s) for destroying the economy is, therefore, likely to be a highly frustrating exercise. In an unfettered capitalist system based on greed, some events can only be understood as collateral damage. Not unlike any other war.

I hope Hansen's call for a moratorium on new coal-fired power plants has dropped the "until CO2 capture and interment can be incorporated" caveat.

Carbon is already sequestered in those fossil fuels. Leave them be!

If Hansen can focus attention on the energy cartel and raise some public awareness of how these corporate mobsters operate, more power to him. That will be a fine trick in a corporatocracy!

However, he may have some difficulty selling the urgency of the global warming hypothesis while the sun is behaving as it is. The quiescent solar condition means a reduction in the most important factor in global heating: solar energy. The decrease in solar energy reaching the planet will cause a drop in the warming trend. This doesn't imply the heat-trapping effect of co2 and other gases is not true, but a gullible and stupid public, led by people like Senator Imhoff, will have more reason to deny global warming.

If the sun doesn't perk up and become a little more active, we could enter into a period of global cooling, though the cooling would be less pronounced than it would be with the heat trapping gases in the atmosphere. But how is that going to fly with the crowd of deniers who claim global warming is a hoax on any given day when the temps are cooler than normal?

The corporate criminals will have Hansen for lunch.

Well said, Arvy, and barely human who said, "it would be a start"...

Laws and rules and courts won't work at this point. But Hansen's call will help in whatever way it can to demonstrate the simple premise: If you want to stop global warming / climate change, then stop doing what causes it, and if you lie about culpability, you will pay, since thousands of species, human and nonhuman, have paid, are paying, and will pay for centuries...

Hell to pay.

Big Oil's crimes against humanity have been in motion for most of the 20th century. The global warming issue is just a new chapter in an endless horror story.

At the moment "they" are having people killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Columbia and other places around this corporate fascist world. And for what ? To steal a polluting fossil fuel.

Our Nazi-lite Congress and Pentagon are simply following orders given by Big Oil.

Put the meat and dairy industry chiefs on trial too.
They contribute to global warming in a big way as well.

jcrumb & Arvy

Let me attempt to give an even more simple distillation to the question:"WHY?"

Simple Answer: Because they CAN!

When you are so powerful that you can buy governments outright you simply continue to do what got you $FAT$ in the first place - FUCK everyone else.

I think most sentient beings now believe that the human species wll NOT make it out of the 21st Century in any fashion comparable to the 20th. So it's easy to understand that people with unlimited power and influence will simply grab everything for themselves and go out with a BANG!

Fuck the trials, just take em back in the oil patch and fucking shoot them.

fanman June 23rd, 2008 1:28 pm -- 'jcrumb & Arvy Let me attempt to give an even more simple distillation to the question:"WHY?" Simple Answer: Because they CAN!'

I'm not sure that really is a simpler answer inasmuch as "because we can" would, once again, indicate some purposful intent in demonstrating and exposing that ability to destroy the economy. And that inevitably leads to other obvious questions.

I still think it's simpler to assume nothing but total indifference to any economic impacts beyond their own profits. And even that limited perspective can often be quite shortsighted, especially where executive remuneration and bonuses are a major influence on decisions.

I learned from today's Democracy Now! program that General Motors, alone, spends $9 million dollars A DAY on advertising! This is the corporation that purchased the street car lines in many American cities and dismantled them so they could have a more open and larger market for their product.

Those car ads don't just sell brand, they promote a lifestyle. A lifestyle, by the way, which does not actually exist. They don't show gridlock or stop and go jammed freeways or road rage or mutilated bodies at fatal accident scenes - 42,000+ killed every year, 2 million maimed.

Nine million dollars a day promoting the transportation mode that most contributes to global warming - shouldn't that be seen as a crime as well?

Survival of the Elitist. If we dump the monetary system, these people, big oil and the lot of corporate superpowers, will still have a pretty fair chance at holding their own with the infrastructure they created for themselves. God forbid we find out who and where they're at! There is no doubt in my mind its all about their own survival at this point. Perhaps a single dollar bet over "Jesus being born again when the signs are right" started this mess, inconsequential for them but a great idea for sequestering a larger percent of the worlds capital. If you personally owned more liquid capital than a world superpower wouldn't you want to get your way? They say Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world, but, I ask you this, He claims all his earnings, right? In the states, right? Not a Capitan Nemo with a fleet of oil tankers. Not profit...of course not...Just control! Infrastructure! They have divided us and have conquered us so far. There is some oil product everywhere we look, even where we least expect it. "Better living threw chemistry!" Just think millions of barrels of oil worth of plastic bags a day are disposed of. If big oil cared for the earth that would be a practice stopped long ago.$$$

I see ~USAN~, I did misunderstnd you. Please accept my humble apologies for being senile.

Hey ~MIMICCS~ could you repeat that please, I got lost there in the middle. But first please read and think about ~Siouxroses~ last blog.

I have to choose whether to trust YOUR words, or those of the climatic scientists who are VERY concerned and are not being paid by Exxon to write their reports. I also trust the words of the geologist and scientist ~Michael J. Benton~, who penned the book, "When Life Nearly Died". We currently are on the edge of a repeat.

Finally, I have to trust my own observations in my back yard, where we no longer have the birds, bees or inscets in any numbers to speak of anymore and our mountain streams are almost totally dried up now, never seen anything like it. No one has. I'm sure you would have an answer to that, but please don't bother.

I vote no, by the way, with my non dollars on the automobile based transportation system. I bought a new Toyota Corolla in 1985. It has 270,000 miles on it and runs great and still gets 33 miles per gallon.

I also have a 1982 Mercedes 300 TDT with 408,000 miles on it, and a 1989 Toyota 4Runner with 280,000 miles on it. I do my own mechanical work, or perhaps older cars would be too expensive, but if everyone made their cars last like I do the car companies would not have the money to promote the automobile culture lifestyle.

It is not sustainable to move 2 tons of steel and glass every time someone wants to go from point A to point B. We have to convert to steel on steel travel in trains and trams. Walking, bicycling and small electric cars to get to the stations will supplement the new way of moving about. It really sounds pleasant to me. I never rent a car when I am in Europe, and I love getting around by train and tram and bus and subway and walking! Freeways and freeway driving are nightmares that hardly anyone enjoys.

Oh yeah...you think congress will do anything besides off Hansen?

H-H-O - heavy runner Early cars are the best to test on..... less sensor crap. 2001 kia will get37mpg, a 2004 gets 19mpg, in the book. Lets go congress, you O.K.ed this.

Does edit never work right?

Jacob Freeze, amen to that: Hansen deserves the Nobel Prize and more ... not just for what he's been telling us for the past 20-plus years, but for all the mockery, political muscling and nasty personal attacks he's had to endure over that time.

jungleboy, you raise a chilling prospect that echoes a section from Jared Diamond's "Collapse," in which he describes how the most land- and livestock-wealthy medieval settlers of Greenland were well-off enough only to be among the last to go, possibly at the hands of the starving, poorer masses. It's a line that comes back to me time and again these days.

By the way, interesting that we have to learn of today's Hansen testimony from the U.K. Guardian, isn't it? No mention of it in the headlines that I could see on CNN, Time or MSNBC. (And there was no earthly reason for me to check Fox News ... you know how they roll.)