What fun it is living 1984.
So; Bush violated the law in authorizing warrantless surveillance. He then put the program under FISA jurisdiction but its terms remain secret. Then demanded retroactive immunity for any telephone company that participated in his ILLEGAL spying program.
And now; Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer states this newer bill would provide greater protection of civil liberties than one the Senate approved in February.??
Amazing-simply-amazing.

JCrumb...actually, I am getting SOME of what I have paid in the form of F.I.C.A. taxes over the past 40 years back...I'm disabled. I am not even required to file tax returns each year. Funny thing about it...I can't work (I've tried, but I am allowed only 9 mos. forever, to be on any payroll, and may not earn more tha $900/mo. during that 9 months and qualify for disabilty "benefits." My disabiity prohibited my continuing the job I was at, but I tried and will again when able) and can't afford to buy groceries, pay rent, etc. A recommendation: don't get seriously injured if you live in the U.S. and depend on working to survive.

As far as withholding taxes from the government, I'm all for it.. income tax from labor is unconstitutional (as if that matters in today's U.S.), but if you buy ANYTHING or use any services such as telephone or internet in the U.S., it's impossible to not pay taxes...they come in more forms than just income taxes, they are imbedded in virtually everything you purchase, in other words, they get your money as it comes in and as it goes out.

just called hoyer's office, was told hoyer does NOT support retroactive immunity. said that wasn't what i understood and asked if it is in included in the compromise he is pushing and was told that information was not available. what a crock. give a call 202.224.3121 and ask for hoyer.

An agreement giving the phone companies retroactive immunity from legal action for VIOLATING OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. From the freedom loving Democrats? Imagine that!

Look, I'm no legal scholor to be sure, but if in the future (if and when this natioanl nightmare of fascism is over and the rule of law, ie. the Constitution, is restored) cannot most of the damage done by this Corporo-Christofascist administration and complicit congress be undone simply because it is in fact unconstitutional and thus ILLEGAL? Is there anybody out there that is versed in Constitutional Law that knows the answer to this question?

YOUR PAYING FOR IT!
STOP BLAMING THE DEMS..STOP BLAMING THE REPS...BLAME YOURSLF..YOU PAY FOR IT ALL..
the only thing this out of control.."rogue government" is going to understand...is a general tax strike...they ar only...OBVIOUSLY..concerned with MONEY...do theycare what..what you..what their fellow "representatives" think? ARE YOU KIDDING?...THEY ONLY..CARE..ABOUT...MONEY!!!!!!!!
SO..DEPRIVE THEM OF IT!
take away the one thing they MUST have in order to do busines as usual...MONEY..without the disposable billions you provide..they would HAVE to deal..
Just like ANY OUT OF CONTROL COMPANY..ABUSING HE RIGHTS OF IT'S EMPLOYEES..THE US GOVERNMENT WILL ONLY BEGIN TO "LISTEN" TO WE "EMPLOYEES" IF WE STRIKE..AND DEPRIVE THEM OF THE OPERATING CAPITAL THEY MUST HAVE IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY THEIR FAULTY PROGRAMS..
YOUR TACIT APPROVAL OF THIS TYPE OF SELLOUT IS WHAT THEY ARE BANKING ON TO DO THIS..TACIT APPROVAL IN THE FORM OF YOUR ANNUAL PRACTICE OF PICKING UP THE CHECK FOR THESE ACTIONS...
ILLEGAL WAR? YOU PAID FOR IT..CONTINUE TO PAY FOR IT...TORTURE? YOU PAY FOR THAT..YOU PAY THE SALLERIES OF THE ACTUAL TORTURERS...YOU PAY THE SALLERIES OF BLACKWATER THUGS...THEY AREN'T BEING PAID BY SOME RICH GUY SOMEWHERE...THEY ARE BEING PAID WITH YOUR TAX DOLLARS..
WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP!
STOP RATIONALIZING YOUR FEAR...YOU FEAR PREDATORY COERCION...THE REPRISALS OF A GOVERNMENT THAT MUST THREATEN YOU TO GET YOUR MONEY...STOP BEING AFRAID...FIGHT BACK..IT IS NON-VIOLENT..IT IS AN AMERICAN TRADITION...TAX PROTEST...THE ONLY POWER WE HAVE LEFT..THE POWER OF THE PURSE...
I DO NOT PAY FOR THESE ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES..THESE CORPORATE WHITEWASHES..TORTURE...ILLEGAL WAR..THEY ARE NOT USING MY MONEY..I AM TAKING THE RISK...MAKING THIS STAND...WHY ARE YOU STILL PAYING FOR SOMEHTING YOU DO NOT WANT? 60% OF EVERY DOLLAR YOU DUTIFULLY SEND EVERY YEAR..GOES TO DEATH AND WAR AND TORTURE AND MURDER...YOU ARE MAKING IT POSSIBLE..UNTIL YOU STOP...UNTIL YOU WAKE UP...IT WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN...THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF JUST HOW LOW DOWN THE POLE YOUR "OPINION" IS IN ANY MATTERS RELATING TO THE WAR YOU FINANCE....ONLY YOUR ONEY MATTERS.....SO STOP GIVING IT TO THEM...
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
SEE YOU IN THE TRENCHES..WELL..PROBABLY NOT...THAT WOULD BE TOO RISKY...

The program did NOT begin AFTER 9/11, this whole charade is taxing...

I called Hoyer and Pelosi. If AT&T gets retroactive immunity, I am done with the Democratic party... and I told them so....

gutless pandering to corporate america.

If the program is legal, why do they need immunity? Isn't this a tacit admission that the whole thing was unconstitutional from the beginning?

Well, at least Obama finally stopped the rope-a-dope campaign business as usual to step up and in no uncertain terms light the fuse on the Democratic Party's vast reserves of dry powder.

Oh, wait. No he didn't, either. That was just the Change I was dreaming about...

Look what you get when you vote Democrat! Please stop!

A few key things to understand. In Congress, the majority has a great deal of control over the agenda. Especially in the House. In the House, if the Speaker doesn't want something to reach the floor, then its hard to get it there. It takes a majority vote of the full House to override that decision.

So, just the fact that is even being considered without the Republicans having to push for such a majority vote from the full House indicates the Dem leadership is supporting this. The same is true for war funding and all the other things the Democrats lie about not supporting but which get shepparded through the congress and passed anyways. Anytime you see something like this even coming up for a vote, that means Pelosi and the Dem leadership support it. Even thought Pelosi might then do something tricky like cast a meaningless symbolic vote against it.

The other thing to note is that the corporate media and the Democrats are only telling half the story. This bill also includes language that expands the government's powers to conduct illegal warrantless spying on Americans.

The Democrats never disputed this. They all just stood up and saluted and said great idea to this part. They've been conducting this political theater about pretending to oppose the retroactive immunity for acts everyone knew were clearly illegal at the time. Its now obvious they were never going to really stop it. They just used some time till this Aug expiration date to put on a phony little show.

But the key thing to know is that this expands Bush's (and Obama's) domestic spying powers and the Democrats have loved that idea from the beginning.

There's also a strong underlying issue here. It goes to the very root of our processes in this country. We've all heard the civics class explanation of how a law is made. By granting Bush this authority, they are establishing the precedent that a President can just unilaterally make a new law on his own without going to Congress. That's essentially what Bush did in this case. He didn't like the existing FISA law. But instead of allowing our republic to function and to let our so-called elected representatives debate it, he just made up his own law. He got his pet lawyers that work for him to right a rigged 'opinion' that said Bush could do what he wanted, and then he did it.

This is exactly the reason why impeachment is in the Constitution. The whole system is built on checks and balances, and impeachment is the remedy available to Congress when a power-mad President exceeds the limits in the Constitution. Instead, what we see is that instead of impeaching Bush, the Congress (led by Dems in the last two years) gives Bush retroactive immunity, then changes the law to give Bush want he wanted, and now gives anyone who worked with Bush immunity solely on the basis of a note from the President saying its ok.

So, what they are really doing is ceding the Congressional role in the law-making process to the President and establishing the precedent that any President can just make this stuff up as they go along. Ie, put Constitution into the shredder and press the ON button.

Gee, gotta love them Dems!

We need a real opposition. Step one to get that is to stop voting Democrat!

The telecoms have been flooding big money in bribes, uh contributions, to the Dems all year to get this. With the Dems sitting with 6 and 7 figure amounts in their campaign accounts from the telecoms, do you really think they are going to give a damn about your phone call?

If you want to get Pelosi's attention, donate and volunteer to Cindy Sheehan's campaign.

I have called Hoyer, Pelosi, and my Congressperson.

I also called the Obama campaign office and left a message for Obama, who, has Greenwald in a separate article indicates has been missing in action when it comes to this issue. He needs to step up and put this front and center. Why are the Democraps so afraid of running on this "law and order" issue?

see majorityleader.gov I just got off the phone with Hoyer's aid, and the new bill sounds stronger than the previous FISA regarding telecoms. Reps do "give a damn" about calls and letters, emails, and faxes. They figure each one represents the concerns of xxx more constituents. PERSONAL messages are more powerful than signing petitions online; although I do both.

Sheesh, now I just saw THIS!
The proposed FISA deal is not a compromise; it is a capitulation. The House and Senate should not be taking up this bill, which effectively guarantees immunity for telecom companies alleged to have participated in the President's illegal program, and which fails to protect the privacy of law-abiding Americans at home. Allowing courts to review the question of immunity is meaningless when the same legislation essentially requires the court to grant immunity. And under this bill, the government can still sweep up and keep the international communications of innocent Americans in the U.S. with no connection to suspected terrorists, with very few safeguards to protect against abuse of this power. Instead of cutting bad deals on both FISA and funding for the war in Iraq, Democrats should be standing up to the flawed and dangerous policies of this administration."

I think I am done with BOTH Zionist parties.

Totally reprehensible. Kick the bastards out, every one of them.

BTW whatfools, this is not about zionism, this is about being bought and paid for by corporations. Zionism is f**ked but that really is not the issue here.

Its not just the phone companys:

Infragard 23000 companys accross the USA.
Cable companys.
Major Media ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX,BBC etc.etc.
IAFF,local law enforcemnt, DHS,FBI,NSA.

Local Commity watch groups,church groups,Free masons, military groups around base communitys,private corporations,private Armys funded by right wing fringe rich fanatics.

All of them thinking they have Immunity form the law, and I guess they are right, we are a sick sociaty of stazi spy freaks,all of these poeple looking to be helpful because of fear and guilt of 9/11.

I know about the warrentless surveilence programs, I am one of these Americans who have been tortured,haressed and watched,slandered 24/7 by these freaks using gang stalking cointel pro tactics.
If you give one immunty, the phone companys , everyone else gets off.

Why, because the surveilence starts with the phones.They know who you call,where you go (GPS in the phone ) .Hell I had Verizon trucks follow me for 6 months , to hunderds of companys I serviced.( Fild Service Engineer)

They made no effort to hide what they were doing, they were torturing me by letting me know I will never have peace of mind, and feel like I have privacy.Some one in my local community ok'd this kind of surveilence, I will never have my day in court unless I can file under the freedom of information act to find out who ordered the surveilence and why.And its the phone ompanys that are the magic link to all surveilence.

Thats why Immunity must not be granted, the price must be paid , the law suits must fly, and the money must be paid.

Because , that is what will teach these bastards what "protecting the constitution from enemys foreign and domestic" means.

I have been waiting for 15 months for my day to file for freedom of information, and go after Verizon for what they did to me, and still do.

It wont stop untill Immunity is taken from them and the class actions law suits fly.

God Save our Constitution, it will save our Democracy.

I emailed a friend the other day 'cos I know he never reads shit when its a bazillion pages long in 1/32 of an inch letters, but the past year I'd read the inside of a pack of matches if it came in the envelope with the bill! If you have Comcast or AT&T, didn't see it yet from Verizon, the Comcast one is an entire brochure! The jist of both of these violators of our Fourth Amendment Rights is that they say by paying this bill you are agreeing to everything mentioned in writing that they included with the bill. A nice end run in case.
Comcast, the balls, 3.b. Monitoring of Postings and Transmissions, 3.c. Eavesdropping[fucking spying], then midstream in all caps, so don't blame me or jcrumb, NEITHER COMCAST NOR ITS AFFILIATES, SUPPLIERS, OR AGENTS SHALL HAVE ANY LIABILITY WHATSOEVER FOR ANY CLAIMS, LOSSES. ACTIONS, DAMAGES, SUITS OR PROCEEDINGS ARISING OUT OF OR OTHERWISE RELATING TO SUCH ACTIONS BY YOU. Which means me or you, us. So I've cancelled Comcast because I watch Cspan, Olbermann, Jon Stewart and Colbert, SO? Then AT&T, SO?
They will get us seven ways from Sunday up and until the day they start WWIII, maybe the Netherlands? I would probably get radiation sickness, so I would take care of that myself. Just cannot live in this despicable, Zionest owned, bought and paid for shithole any longer.

Okay, defenders of the completely discredited, totally corrupt, sold out, Democrats: What do you have to say now? This so-called "opposition party" has been bent over, thumbs locked around ankles, giving Bush everything he wants for years. The Democrats have absolutely no excuses because they control both houses of the Congress. Have you noticed what a nice job the Democrats are doing of shielding Bush and following the Republican agenda? Why don't they unite and become the Democratic-Republican Party?

Time to Dump the Democrats and start uniting under a new party. I'm thinking about voting for someone that has principles. Take a look a the Greens. Don't waste your vote on a Democrat. Forget Obama, he's a sell out. Voting for a Democrat is like voting for a Republican. Let's tell the sold out Democrats to: GO TO HELL! Vote for Cynthia McKinney!

HOYER, PELOSI. REED, REPUGNICANS, DEMS IT MAKES NO DIF THEY ARE ALL TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR CRONIES AND SAVE THEIR ASSES. BUSH SHITHEADS TOOK HOW MANY TIMES TO GET THIS ABOMINATION THRU THE LEGISLATURE, FINALLY! KISS THE 4TH AMENDMENT GOODBYE! THANKS TO ALL THE COWARDLY PRICKS!

I just heard that criminal coddling Pelosi say she didn't like the war funding bill the Democrats just helped pass in the House.

She said it was important to pass a bill Bush would sign. She said it gives the troops what they need and doesn't tie the hands of commanders in the field.

Why the f*#& not! Since when do commanders in the field set the policy and not the Congress. Why is so important to have Bush sign a bill that keeps our troops fighting and dying to prop up a colonial-style puppet governments and keeps the profits flowing to Big Oil, Big Profits Inc. and the Military Industrial Complex?

Why the f*#& is it so important to keep the war going? Does she think the Democrats are doing this to keep the troops happy? Are we doing this for the over-whelming majority of Iraqis that want us to get the hell out of their country. Are we doing it for the American public who want to end the occupations?

Are the Democrats nucking futs? Can't the Democratic supporters see they have basically joined forces with the demonic Republicans to screw everybody but the rich and powerful. Dump the God-damned Democrats!

Have written the delegation from Mich. on this matter. Corruption abounds. Steny Hoyer, what a idiot.

Steny Hoyer said, we'd have greater protection of our civil Liberties? Please explain? It makes no sense. How? By not making the phone companies accountable, because of Bush's illegal wiretapping, in the first place, and giving the phone companies ammunity with this bill, Bush or whoever wants to spy on us anytime they want (yeah, I know they only do people they think are talking to terrorists, wink, wink) is giving us greater protection?
I was watching Olbermann tonight and he was talking to, I think, his name is Turley, a scholor on law. He said it was a dangerous precedent. He said the Democrats knew about the Bush's wiretapping from the start before the public ever found out. Olbermann said Democrats are covering their butts so they don't get in trouble from the courts if lawsuits were allowed to go forward.
I am very,very disgusted with the Democratic Party. They are as bad as the Republicans. They said vote for them in 2006 and they will clean up the swamp! They haven't done anything. They bend over backwards to do whatever Bush wants. No impeachment, no accountability, nothing. It doesn't do any good to call them. I have. They do what they dam well please. some do try to stand up for what is right but there is not enough of them.
On Obermann's program tonight, Turley said, that when the bill was first put forth about the immunity, there was a big outcry (Of course) by the people, so they let it die down before they brought it up again. I wonder when Pulosi and Hoyer are up for election? Their people better think twice about electing the traitors.
!

Seems the light from the genius of the constitution is fading; rationalized, excused and left bleeding. Pity.

We knew this was going to happen all along. The Democrats do not represent any of us with progressive values. Giving even a dime to the Democratic party is too much. They don't deserve any of our support for any reason. This is treason. Don't support or donate to the Democratic party!

Ferraro sez: "WASHINGTON - U.S. phone companies would be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits under an anti-terror spy measure that appears headed toward approval, congressional sources said on Wednesday."

* * *

The entire premise of this piece is part of the propaganda. The government could, if it wished, easily shield the companies from monetary losses in exchange for testimony about criminal wrongdoing.
This is about protecting the Chainy-bush criminal syndicate and the congressional enablers from accountability under the law and about keeping the truth from the American people.

What they should do is give W and themselves retroactive immunity and cut out the middleman.

(For other valid observations, see: limric, 1:36 p.m., and Samson, 4:06 p.m.)

DON'T GIVE UP!!!

CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND SENATORS!

PUT THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE.

This is OUR country (I think).
Don't let the bastards take it away!

Let them know that there is no way in hell that you will vote for them if they vote for immunity! Democrats or Republican, it makes no difference. If they vote for it, you vote against them.

give a call to LEAHY and FEINGOLD who have both been very vocal against this new bill. ask their person if they will filibuster and a stunned silence will follow. i think i have less respect for these folks who spout their opposition to a truly awful bill but do not have the courage to stand up for what they supposedly believe and have no intention of doing anything other than giving lip service.
there are exceptions, but only a few...kucinich, wexler, lee, woolsey. if they were in the senate, you can bet they would stand up for what they believe with many filibusters.