Col. Wilkerson is better known for hitting the media circuit to defend Colin Powell. The problem is that Powell gave the lead-off U.N. speech to make the bogus case for attacking Iraq.

We've known all of this stuff about the Bush administration for many years now. Congress voted to approve torture ex post facto with the Military Commissions Act. How can I believe Congress is serious, when they support Bush's illegal policies and won't impeach administration officials?

Barn Burner-
" When you meet with friends do you ever discuss the politics of this war, torture, the state of the people in Iraq or any of this "messy" stuff? I mean, does anyone, outside the few liberal blogs on the Internet give a shit about Whats going on in these committees?

Claudius-
"Roughly half of my friends do one of three things. They either overlook this stuff. Or they do not want to talk about it. Or they are hypnotized by the Corporate Media"

I second that... but I would not be so generous as to say roughly half. I have a conservative friend who thinks of himself as progressive because he listens to NPR news.. National Public Radio.

Whenever I remind him that the President of NPR (Kevin Klose) was the former director of all CIA worldwide broadcasts (Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Iraq, Radio Free Afghanistan, Radio Free Cuba) he get's angry, combative, and hangs up the phone.

Scott McClellan was my friends hero, until two weeks ago. Now he bashes his favorite mouthpiece, as the media told him to do.

He also called me a liar when I said I had a very VERY interesting document. It's a casting notice from NPR looking for actors with regional accents to record the radio sound bites of first person witnesses. Let me say that again- a casting notice to have ACTORS read the lines of FIRST PERSON WITNESSES.

"Waterboarding refers to putting a cloth over a restrained person's mouth and nose, then pouring water over them to give them the sensation of drowning." - Right, because they ARE drowning.

dydymus June 19th, 2008 5:43 pm -
"I never, EVER imagined that my own country would be doing the things it is doing these last 7 years, AND that the majority of Americans would be snoring through it all." Unfortunately, it has been going on for a lot longer, we are just more aware because of the internet. They just can't keep it secret anymore because we all have the ability to communicate with everyone now.

dmac June 19th, 2008 1:01 pm
"Half of me thinks George Bush is a war criminal, the other half thinks he's a moron. Could he be our first Hybrid president?"
Perhaps a genetically modified hybrid? I don't believe I am of the same species as this creature.

Of course Cheney knew! He and all The Principals would gather to discuss in detail all 'their' nefarious plans of torture.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/12/8240/

BarnBurner: The people I am close with -care- alot - and we talk about Iraq and the criminals running this country. However, I find it is not discussed in "polite company" - too many places. Usually it is the regular working types that can see thru the Sh*tscreen, but the rest find it too ugly and appalling to discuss, I suppose. Of course, as a result of wanting "the best" for my son I send him to a school full of snobs and these are the "polite" types I speak of. Most of them drive Cadillac Escalades and the like, and live in palaces and wear rings on their fingers that you would not believe. Those people do not want to hear a peep about this Sh*t, Everybody else knows what is going on. Apologies for redundancy.

WE,the United States lost it's moral compass. To call us a Christian nation is a smoke screen to hide our immorality.

BarnBurner:As far as any of my relatives or friends or acquintances go: NO,people are more interested in getting their stimulus package,or whatever. Politics doesn't seem to interest them. So I find some solace in the internet although I continue to send emails with breaking stories. Maybe people have forgotten the Depression, WW11 and Korea. We live in a closed off society.And Bush's gang continues to steal all that is left of our country including young folks sent to Iraq.

Dear Congress - if the jerks knew of, enabled, participated - have the same procedures (yes, even up to death) applied to them - publicly broadcast - on pay-per-view cable - like a new reality show - called "Truth and Reality for Rethuglicans"

"Mr. Feith's (fill in the name of Bushit appointee or supporter or front line criminal here) unwillingness to attend voluntarily and provide the truth about this government's actions shows a fundamental disrespect for Congress and the American people,"

Cheney probably KNEW? Hell, he probably tortured some of them himself. The man is Evil Incarnate.

At the House hearing Feith was scheduled to attend, it was reported that he had decided not to attend because of one of the witnesses called.

Amy Goodman did her entire program on the subject yesterday - can be viewed or read at democracynow.org. There is much more to the ongoing investigations than the article above implies. It is gradually seeping out. My first awareness of the depth of study involved came from an excellent compilation by Meteor Blades at dailykos a couple of nights ago, which gave much of the information Amy has also given, along with a link to Carl Levin's important opening statement at the Senate Armed Services hearing. All of this has been very much UNDER the mainstream radar.

Rick (7:03 AM)

Watch the hearing on CSPAN--elsewhere in the hearing Wilkerson said he considered Bush to be responsible and to have knowledge of what was going on. I am always surprised by the way news articles distort these hearings. I prefer CSPAN to any other news source any day.

Col. Wilkerson said, "The president may have been ignorant of the worst parts of the failure."
What is this a "get out jail free card?"? The buck stops where?

Problem is, sandyk, that the American people are going down with them.

My feeling (as an atheist) is that we are in the End Times and I've written several posts recently that explain why. Democracy is fast disappearing. The prophetic books: 1984 and The Handmaid's Tale show us where we're headed.

It's going to get messy very, very soon.

www.dangerouscreation.com

And what makes this ugly piece of dung think he can get away with his bravado?
They are stalling and they are all going down the drain.
And it couldn't happen to better people...

To say that an intellectual midget has outfoxed the notable leftist intellectuals underscores the seemingly willful ignorance of much of the left, especially including those leftist intellectuals. Did you really ever think that illegitimate power responds to 'moral suasion'? That is down right idiotic!

In fact, those 'intellectuals' are perhaps a bigger part of the problem than the reptilian Republicrats - who at least are obviously piggish. Underneath the endless whining of the likes of Chomsky is the sinister assertion that 'democratic' imperialism can be made peaceful and fair. This ahistorical notion effectively eviscerates the genuine desire for honor and justice by normal people, and sends them down the rat hole of electing a Democrat, impeaching the Executive, depending upon the courts, etc.

The whole system is rigged against legitimate rule of law, for the simple reason that legitimacy necessarily means a socialist platform in our time. Everything else is a convenient lie, making these 'intellectuals' accessories to imperialism, up to and including torture and mass murder.

WWIII is coming. It is not 'if', it is 'when'! If you hate torture, war, bigotry, and poverty, there is only one way out: Proletarian socialist revolution. The prerequisite for this is the building of a political party with the will and program to establish international communism (that would be a Trotskyist party...). If you choose not to heed and support this well-proven formula, you are automatically part of the problem. The choice is socialism or barbarism. There is no other option, people.

160 years later, it is still essential: Workers of the world, unite!

Hey Barn Burner.

I want to answer your question about people "giving a damn" and whether they talk about these things in gatherings - outside the liberal blogs.

Absolutely! All the social groups I hang with always talk about these things. In the years after 9-11 when all this was officially suppressed, we talked about this kind of thing, it was therapeutic. Many of us felt we were moving toward fascism.

Are they all liberals? Probabaly not, but only a few are strongly conservative. All are well-informed and inclined to doubt official propaganda and the MSM. I think that is the main difference. I really believe you have to be well-informed, curious about things - then you begin to care about what you see.

Barn Burner--

Nobody around here in Western Maryland and N.E. West Virginia gives a shit about any of this-- except me and perhaps a couple of others. And this is the immediate area where the Abu Ghraib torture photo troops were based, and a half dozen of them grew up around here. I'd like to see about 15,000 anti-war protesters descend upon this area some weekend and refuse to spend any money on anything.

Far worse than the Nixon Watergate era, when "there was a cancer on the presidency" --- today with this two-party 'Vichy' corrupt and complicit government, "there is a cancer on the whole government".

.
Feith is a double agent.

He has no respect for the U.S. Constitution, or the Oath of Office he swore to, when he accepted an appointment in the Dept. of Defense in 2001.

Such a flawed and twisted little man, should be publicly judged before the whole nation. Douglas Feith is a disgrace.................

.

For what reason do you refer to Cheney, Bush and company the appelation of being "pricks?" A prick is part of a man. They don't qualify.

We should take a page out of the Chinese handbook and walk these criminals into the middle of Yankee ball park and put a bullet in their heads. Are you listening you NSA cowards!! Put a bullet in each of their heads.

On a lighter note- this what happens when you mix blind patriotism, "24", and delusions of grandeur.

I'm moving to Nutopia. See ya later.

Nothing arising from the stench of the Bush administration surprises me. Didn't from the beginning. The Democratic contender is just the other side of the same coin. You Americans are going to have to rise up. Very few leaders of any gov't give a shit for the people. They don't have to. At that level of the shark tank, there are only sharks. These people have no moral conscience. Although totalitarianism is unacceptable in any regime, you come to expect it from places such as Myanmar, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, etc...It isn't a shock when you hear of violations of all sorts. Well, from the viewpoint of many outside the U.S.A., your country has joined an elite group of fascist visionaries. Snap the fuck out of it will ya! It is your responsibility to bring an end to these horrors being committed in the name of your country. Or will someone have to step in and sort the lot of you out?
Now before some of you get pissed at that last sentence, may i direct you to the term pre-emptive war. Knuckleheads.

If Mr. Firth will not attend voluntarily, issue a bench warrant for his arrest and bring him to the proceedings in handcuffs like any other felon.

Jim,

Thanks for what you say and I by no means intended to suggest that we shouldn't continue to dream. I just am not expecting any federal resolution.

But, I will continue to dream and I will not give up.

Nobody has won anything. Think about it. Who is keeping score?

But, it should be obvious that we can do better and the longer we wait the harder it will be. I suppose it might already be too late, but I'll keep on hoping. Hope is free.

Later,
Ken

"At what level did American leadership fail

This question should be turned qround qnd dir4ectede at the bQqqqmericn people as well:

At what level didd aMERICAN CITIZENSHIP fail?" iwwould answer, At the moral and faithful (as in religious faith) citizenship level. There is no justification for th4 dereliction of moral and faithful citizenship duty FOR WHICH MOST AMERICANS ARE RESPONSIBLE IN this country. Casting a blind eye to torture, unprovoked war and the creation of q humanitarian disaster in IRAQ ARE just some of th4 sins we have tolerated in our name. Too mqny of us Qmericqns go qvbbout our dqily lives forgettxing about the mqny injustices zthqqqtz hqqqqppen in our names, even when injustices hqppen directly to us, such as when election theft occrs against us. As a nation of citizens, we have tolerated far too much. LEt this be the year, we say no moreand fibnd our moral voice as citizens and sa, " no more, never again"

Its not just the phone companys:

Infragard 23000 companys accross the USA.
Cable companys.
Major Media ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX,BBC etc.etc.
IAFF,local law enforcemnt, DHS,FBI,NSA.

Local Commity watch groups,church groups,Free masons, military groups around base communitys,private corporations,private Armys funded by right wing fringe rich fanatics.

All of them thinking they have Immunity form the law, and I guess they are right, we are a sick sociaty of stazi spy freaks,all of these poeple looking to be helpful because of fear and guilt of 9/11.

I know about the warrentless surveilence programs, I am one of these Americans who have been tortured,haressed and watched,slandered 24/7 by these freaks using gang stalking cointel pro tactics.
If you give one immunty, the phone companys , everyone else gets off.

Why, because the surveilence starts with the phones.They know who you call,where you go (GPS in the phone ) .Hell I had Verizon trucks follow me for 6 months , to hunderds of companys I serviced.( Fild Service Engineer)

They made no effort to hide what they were doing, they were torturing me by letting me know I will never have peace of mind, and feel like I have privacy.Some one in my local community ok'd this kind of surveilence, I will never have my day in court unless I can file under the freedom of information act to find out who ordered the surveilence and why.And its the phone ompanys that are the magic link to all surveilence.

Thats why Immunity must not be granted, the price must be paid , the law suits must fly, and the money must be paid.

Because , that is what will teach these bastards what "protecting the constitution from enemys foreign and domestic" means.

I have been waiting for 15 months for my day to file for freedom of information, and go after Verizon for what they did to me, and still do.

It wont stop untill Immunity is taken from them and the class actions law suits fly.

God Save our Constitution, it will save our Democracy.

Turce June 19th, 2008 5:05 pm ...The MOST difficult aspect for all of us to accept is that this little man...this little cowardly Alfred E. Newman look-alike..this piece of human oful..this evil, immoral, unethical sub-human...has OUT-MANEUVERED ALL the left wing intellects in this country. You name them...Vidal, Turley, Chomsky, Zinn et al have been done in by this creature. He has won! And to laugh at him now is only to laugh at ourselves. We have lost and been done in by a cheerleader with a IQ of less than 90. Reality! It's HELL!!

Turce June 19th, 2008 5:05 pm ......Rho..When someone of your nature has given up, I figure it's pretty much over for the US..I'll stick it out as long as I can..not much place to run with my 90 year old mom. Again, the following sounds like a good approach, but when you have Mukasey, the AG, on the payroll..I doubt it would work.

I guess we have to face that the pure evil of Alfred E. Newman has out-maneuvered all the great intellects of the left wing.

Bye-bye Miss American Pie.....................

Screw impeachment - it's time to arrest the domestic enemies of The United States Constitution presently using Our White House as a base for their anti-American agenda.

18 U.S.C. §3052: FBI agents are empowered to "serve warrants and subpoenas issued under the authority of the United States and make arrests without warrant for any offense against the United States committed in their presence, or for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States if they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such felony."

"At a 1998 Senate hearing on the subject chaired by John Ashcroft, professors Freedman and Turley said the president could be criminally indicted and prosecuted…"

FISA specifically states that even a sitting President can be indicted for violating FISA. Bush has lied about violating FISA, then publicly confessed to violating FISA, then publicly bragged about his intention to continue violating FISA.

After a sealed indictment is procured, a rouge band of US Marshalls, Secret Service Agents and Navy Seals decide to apprehend Constitutional enemies Bush and Cheney and whisk them off to an undisclosed location for a bit of "enhanced interrogation." Both are such total pussies, they'll squeal on the rest of their criminal gang like stuck little piggies in half-a-heartbeat. Then we send out the posse and round up the rest of the war criminals, sending a clear message to the world that America is on the path to true recovery.

We then publicly nail a few of the scumbags, like Rove and Feith and Addington and Yoo and Fredo and Rummy, and allow the rest to plead-out under the condition that they never, ever, show their faces in public again, unless it's a trip to the grocery store.

From then on, government officials will finally understand that there are harsh consequences for illegal actions, and most will clean up their acts.

canuckchuck June 19th, 2008 1:57 pm
"all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies concluded

First off, dmac (1;01pm) definitely gets today's prize for his "Hybrid" remark. It's worth scrolling up to if you came down too faSt.

Secondly, while I've never had the patience to read Shakespeare or watch movies based on his works, I believe the title of one of them most aptly describes the situation here, "Much Ado About Nothing".

So, whether it be the revelations of Mickey Hershkowitz, Scott McClellan, Jay Rockefeller, Vincent Bugliosi or the more current Mr. Wilkerson above, best you give up any hopes of impeachment, war crimes trials, etc.

IT SIMPLY AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

War crimes are war crimes. Torture is torture. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck. A duck is a duck. When we lose common sense, we lose our common freedom.

Pre-emptive or preventive war is a war crime. That's spelled W-A-R C-R-I-M-E. There is no higher crime in the world than starting a war of aggression by the mere say-so of a moron, or a coterie of morons.

The Geneva Conventions, the UN Declaration of Human Rights, and all treaties which the US has signed are the "law of the land." Obfuscation by re-naming POWs "enemy combatants" is meaningless. Presidential "signing statements" have no more force of law than say-so. Legal interpretations by officers of the office committing the crime are completely irrelevant, legally.

Which is why we have law enforcement. We can have laws, but if they are ignored or flouted, and the culprits are not arrested (or are in fact promoted!), then there is no law enforcement, and those who work in law enforcement at all levels of govt up to the highest, are either complicit, incompetent, ignorant, chicken-shit, or merely indifferent -- to the detriment of the Republic. (That is not an ad hominim attack, that is a simple observation of inescapable fact. Anyone who has knowledge of crimes is morally and/or legally obligated to leak or come forward).

If a cop who sees a crime does not arrest the crook who commits it, in broad daylight, there is no law. Without law, the lawless rule. And when the lawless rule, no one is safe.

Do you feel safe?

I never, EVER imagined that my own country would be doing the things it is doing these last 7 years, AND that the majority of Americans would be snoring through it all.

The people of this country cannot debate without being a wet blanket at any function, cannot hold a simple meaningful debate in public without being shouted down or snarked at with vapid sound bites, and frankly, is afraid of its own shadow, is brainwashed by the military-industrial-media complex, and doesn't have what it takes to defend the liberty it inherited from its founders. The American experiment is the laughingstock of the rest of the world, and if it survives at all, it will be a shell not the nut.

Education is starved for funds because it serves the purpose of limiting the amount of articulate people which in turn serves the purpose of making people easy to manipulate; and the lack of a reasonable amount of paid vacation, as well as universal health coverage etcetera, which would make people more secure and give them time to reflect on what is important in life, is denied (unlike every single other country in the so-called first world, which is why also they have more intelligent and harmonious democracies than ours, which was at one time the most famous but no longer).

Excuse me, I don't have time for an essay, but there are a few ideas. We need courage in this country, and we will probably have to make some people feel inconvenienced and uncomfortable in the next few months, including family and friends. Or else, welcome to the same old shit, for the rest of your life.

Buffalo, because I have hope that the people will never give up and with hope things will get better.

You can leave the corrupt centralized government behind (in your mind) but reality is here to stay.

No revolution or progressive change was ever won without Hope.

It is in my blood and as far as my expectations, they are to continue the fight with Hope.

You do your thing and whatfools can blame it all on the Zionists, but i won't go there.

You may wish you could leave reality behind, but you will only fool yourself.

"Even though you can't expect to defeat the absurdity of the world, you must make that attempt. That's morality, that's religion. That's art. That's life."
Phil Ochs

So Buffalo, I will dream on.

whatfools - what you say rings true in a way.....but the past is the past and anybody can learn.

Thats is why I like to say: A truce begets truce. I hope Peace can spread in the middle east. If anywhere deserves peace then they do there.

I hope it can turn out this way.

Plus, I don't think anyone ought to lay themselves down for the sake of others. That makes no sense. It seems to be needlessly bloody to me.

Jim that is why we need to simply leave this corrupt centralized government behind for good.

Why would anyone have any expectation that anything coming out of DC would be in the interest of the People.

Dream on, but your dreams won't be answered federally. Maybe locally, but not from some omnipotent central freaking executive authority. Duh.

That's quite a list of Israeli operatives running the American government. I have always suspected a Coup. This cancer will not cure itself with the next election.
Alas we must starve it to death - stop buying, stop spending, stop driving, stop working to pay taxes to the Israelis. The Zionists and their bribed officials might think that they are Yahweh's Chosen People but We-The-People are not and we all know what happens to gentiles like the people of Jericho where every man, woman, child and animal was slaughtered and the city-state destroyed. This is the creature infecting our government and Evangelical Churches. Sheep and goats lay down to have their throats cut. The Zionists come from an ancient band of goatherds draging their Arab volcano god with them. Awake or else!

Besides fear and the fact that everyone in the congress except a few have contributed to funding the war and anybody who has paid taxes during the War like myself, shares some guilt, nobody has figured out the Impeachment scenario...What to do.

Option one: Impeach Cheney first so Bush can pick a new VP Who will pardon Bush in return.

Option two: Impeach Bush so we can get Mr, Torture Smorture Cheney president.

Option three: What has never been done and would as Dennis has said, create (Oh my God) a "constitutional crises" ... Impeach Bush/Cheney together as partners in High Crimes with a few misdemeanors thrown in for good looks and if by some miracle convicted by the Senate, you will have Nancy Pelosi as President...Whoopee!

Now since the executive cannot be arrested with national security protection until removed from office, and since Pelosi won't allow or accept any Impeachment, so far there are too many choices for a corrupt government to choose from.

annabelle, if they don't show up after being handed a Congressional Subpoena then Congress can charge them with Contempt of Congress, which has to go through the Senate and The damn AG, so you know what is going to happen when it gets as far as mukasey, more or less, actually more, Piss Off is what will happen.
Had it gonna go to Europe again in a few weeks, see where I can live without becoming homeless and taken in by their Stassi since they're up in illegals' grilles now , too. Then I'll be in GD Syria or such shit. Euro 1.551 to 1 dollar. I should never have fought this long , its will read like 'No Exit' except like with Gidget.
Then they damned rescheduled McClellans testimony after I get all ready to live stream, BHAM the webcast option delinked, I thought I hit the wrong choice and such, nope in .2 microseconds they updated the Full Committee on the Judiciary. I hate all of them, except Dennis.

Barn Burner asks:

"When you meet with friends do you ever discuss the politics of this war, torture, the state of the people in Iraq or any of this "messy" stuff? I mean, does anyone, outside the few liberal blogs on the Internet give a shit about Whats going on in these committees?"

For years I have been actively trying to get my relatives and friends to blog with each other - building on the information we can glean from the leftist sources, and do you know what? Most don't actually give a shit - so I can only say that you are so right!

Old Jeffersonian,

"The tree of liberty looks awfully droopy to me these days."

Hehe

Wow! "Torture", well "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" and "the White House" appear in same sentence almost daily in the msm.

Talk about playing catch up!

Now we need to hear about Bush and Cheney being the subject "Enhanced Prosecution Techniques."

The Zionists regularly torture their prisoners. It would follow that they would gleefully teach us naive Americans how to deal with Mohammedans. After 70 or 80 years of torture, murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide of the darker-skinned Goyim of Palestine they've become experts. As for dual citizenship/loyalty....well we just passed the anniversary of what dual loyalty did to the boys on the USS Liberty.

The Zionists regularly torture their prisoners. It would follow that they would gleefully teach us naive Americans how to deal with Mohammedans. After 70 or 80 years of torture, murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide of the darker-skinned Goyim of Palestine they've become experts. As for dual citizenship/loyalty....well we just passed the anniversary of what dual loyalty did to the boys on the USS Liberty.

Since our Congress will not impeach these trators then we must send Congress itself to the Hague for war crimes trials. Ten percent this month and ten percent next month etc. until impeachment is on the table.

Impeach AND prosecute for murder. Atty.
Bugliosi just needs a bunch of younger
D.A. types to sign up! He'll go forward.

Dennis Kucinich has done an excellent job of
presenting the case for impeachment of both
Bush and Cheney. And Vincent Bugliosi wants
to convict them both of mass murder.

Somehow I don't think the long list of named administrators in the post above, though impressive for its sheer dopedom of officialdom, would stand up in court as a defense to well-argued murder charges, based on who knew what when, etc.

The reason so many people are giving, both
explicitly and implicitly, for NOT supporting the impeachment and murder indictment is that
the Republicans would win.

To follow the same logic, the Celtics should
never have agreed to play the Lakers in the NBA finals.

sung725: I don't doubt that the people you listed are big contributors to the screwed up world that we live in today.

Got any official source for the dual-citizenship? Also, per the questions above from cactuspie: What is the dual citizen's oath? and from hazmat: what about phillip zelikow and larry silverstein?

Thanks, sung. Appreciate the information.

Barn Burner:

Yes, we all talk about what's been going on, but there is so much more that goes on every day that many people can't handle it anymore and they choose to put it out of their minds as much as possible just to sleep at night.

We Americans are living a nightmare on many fronts-including economic- and being held responsible for the decisions that a chosen few in power have made is very hard to deal with.

Not one of us believes in torture or in conquering other nations, or in any of the horrible things that we hear of every day that our current government is doing.

We are ordinary people with a demonic and cruel administration. Tell us how to change it and believe me, we will rally together and do our best to stop it.

First, they better start by prosecuting Monkey Boy, 'cause if they don't he'll just pardon the rest of them. Though TheLorax was right also.

Second, re. "Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler said Mr. Feith, would be compelled to testify". Unless that means having the seargent at arms grab him by the neck and dragging his whining, lying ass into court, history says it ain't gonna happen.

Third, the dual citizeznship post by sung425 sent me down a whole other rabbit hole, after a little searching, I had no idea about. Question: can anyone quote or link to the actual oath or pledge these people take to Israel for their dual US/Israeli citizenship?

The question upon which the future of the United States hinges, and with it all the positive stuff (physical liberty, economic opportunity, judicial recourse, etc.) for which it is supposed (and has, to varying degrees) stand, is whether the rule of law will prevail.

We are already up against the principles set in stone during the Nuremberg trials. It has been widely observed that German generals went to the gallows for lesser crimes than those charged against the Pentagon's civilian leaders.

Will these criminals be charged and tried in accordance with international and constitutional laws?

Will the USA pass this most difficult test of its soul?

From reliable Secret Service sources..... Bush and Cheney's last conversation:

Cheney: "HO HO they are already blaming the Jews for what we ordered."

Bush: "The age old plan hasn't failed yet and if we end up in court, they can't touch us for doing what God told me to do."

Cheney: "What do you mean, 'We'?"

Just like bush, Cheney has been given walking papers by the Congress. He can say "So?", laugh at the American people, attack Iran, wipe his feet on the Constitution, lie, or do any manner of crimes without reproach. Nancy Pelosi will block any impeachment proceedings regardless.
So with regards to torture, Cheney can just laugh and say "So?" while M.C. Hammer sings "Can't Touch This" in the background.

frank1569 - ask the guy who was handcuffed and arrested in front of his young son for telling Cheney his policies are despicable.

Impeachment is not meant to be an absolute last ditch end-of-the-line effort to stop a crook. Impeachment was written into the Constitution to be used on any government official who violated the public trust. It is a relatively simple process regardless of the office. It is like a Grand Jury. Here is the evidence, is there enough to bring the person to trial? If yes, remand for trial. If not, acquit.

Doesn't require billions and years. If lay members of We the People can come up with a long list of high crimes and misdemeanors, the alleged House of Representatives should have no trouble. Kucinich has come up with well written and well researched articles of impeachment for both Cheney and Bush. The actions of the Legislative "leadership" in consigning these documents into the limbo of Conyers' Judiciary Committee should be an impeachable offense also.

Impeachment should be an excellent way to cut the rot out of our government at all levels, but unfortunately, instead of We the People having the say, it is up to the bought and paid for legislature to do it, and they are obviously not going to do anything that will ruffle the feathers in their own nests.

I think we are rapidly approaching the point that Thomas Jefferson made so well when he said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

The tree of liberty looks awfully droopy to me these days.

NancyH; exactly? w/ glee are they endited for these crimes, as opposed to the litany of el disapeared hundreds, thousands?

And the torture is done w/ coca cola not water through funnels down receiving nostril, while on LSD and while being viciocusly beaten.

Slapped? By a 230 lb Nazi thug? I mean American Hero?

I am so Ashamed.

Peace

At least 25 detainees have died (been murdered) in captivity by means of torture or outright killing. Many more are still 'disappeared', perhaps dead, at the many secret military sights unknown as yet. Who knows how many were innocent persons caught up in this god awful mess? Only 8% of captives are probably guilty of being Al Qaeda. But because these pricks (Cheney, Bush and their supporters)don't have any use for Habeaus Corpus they're no better than the worst of the worst. What a shamefully disgusting legacy.

If Feith has nothing to hide, he would have nothing to fear - isn't that what his fellow GOPathological travelers are always saying?

On a side note, we now know, again, what "we've" been doing with/to "illegal enemy combatants," so what are "we" doing with the "legal enemy combatants?" Do we have POW camps set up in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Or is everyone who opposes Cheney/Bush anywhere at anytime now simply an illegal enemy combatant?

sung425, do phillip zelikow's and larry silverstein's names properly belong on that list?

Doug Firth AKA "The Dumbest Man Alive"

"Prisoner-of-war status is supposed to protect captives from torture under the Geneva Conventions."

Actually, 'Simple Human Decency' is supposed to prevent the torture of captives.

The UN Convention Against Torture and Article 55 of the UN Charter are supposed to protect EVERYONE from torture.

POW status is supposed to prevent even the ITTERROGATION of POWs

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

I don't live in the United States anymore so those of you who do I have a question. When you meet with friends do you ever discuss the politics of this war, torture, the state of the people in Iraq or any of this "messy" stuff? I mean, does anyone, outside the few liberal blogs on the Internet give a shit about Whats going on in these committees?

How many more revelations are needed before the total collapse of all semblance of authority for governing by the two main parties? What will be the trigger? The lying about the reasons for going to war?

Next the Democrats in Congress will claim they were tortured by the administration into continuing the funding for their criminal war of aggression.

"Mr. Feith's unwillingness to attend voluntarily and provide the truth about this government's actions shows a fundamental disrespect for Congress and the American people." Nice smokescreen Mr. Nadler. You are just as complicit and guilty too.

All members of the US military had better understand that their country has effectively deprived them of all protections of the Geneva Conventions by violating its most fundamental provisions. If I were in their shoes, I'd be very PO'd about that.

Barn Burner,

Roughly half of my friends do one of three things. They either overlook this stuff. Or they do not want to talk about it. Or they are hypnotized by the Corporate Media and tend to put all of their stock in listening to Chris Matthews, Tim Russert, and other corporate mouthpieces.

The other half is much more engaged, loves to discuss this stuff, and read anything they can about the illegal occupation, war crimes, etc. I am still working on trying to convert the first half.

We should be writing daily to CBS, ABC, and yes, even FOX to demand that they cover this information and not continue to remain silent when it is evident that our leaders are war criminals. All of these stations have web-sites and buildings that can be picketed. I think that these types of demonstrations can be much more effective than standing in city parks holding candels, or having demonstrations where only those of us who are against this illegitamate war come, and giving speaches to each other.

I thought it meant contempt of court if one failed to appear after being summoned and contempt of court meant jail time. There evidently isn't law of the land for the republicans. How convenient!

Have you noticed how only MSNBC is covering any of this? Is Keith Olberman the only one who has enough courage to say that this country is run by war criminals? The mainstream media once again is not serving the country and is hiding these awful truths. They have been doing it for seven years and they are still hiding these things every day.

Barn Burner - I talk to everyone I know about what's going on. Some prefer to keep their heads in the sand - or some other dark place - but the others are slowly realizing I'm not a nut job.

JCrumb - do wish I could read what you write, because I believe everyone has something to say, but just looking at your message makes my eyes go bonkers. Maybe it's the repaired retina and my fake lens.

NOW can we impeach these bastards or bring them to trial??? How much more evidence do we really need?? These criminals that we have been calling our leaders should be very afraid to travel in other countries who might arrest them onsite for their international crimes. There is no 2002 Presidential directive, legal defense arguement, or Presidential pardon that could protect any of them if this happens. I certainly hope it does.

yeah, for sure, and normally hybrids lead to unforseen problems.....lets keep it natural....if natural hybrids show up then great, but I think bush, cheney, rice, and the rest are very "unnatural". Just my opinion.

plus, JCRUMB, work on the cartoon - you have all the material. Why are you wasting you time here?

I say this (or at least I am trying to) say it in a respectful way because I've worked through your posts and basically I think I agree.

Peace,
Ken

Half of me thinks George Bush is a war criminal, the other half thinks he's a moron. Could he be our first Hybrid president?

IT'S TORTURE JUST TO READ THE HEADLINES EVERY DAY...OF COURSE HE'LL GET AWAY WITH IT..DUHHH...THESE KINDS OF FOREGONE CONCLUSIONS ARE BECOMING QUITE EASY TO MAKE THESE DAY'S...I WONDER WHAT THE VEGAS "ODDS" ARE THAT ANYONE OF THESE CRIMINALS WILL EVER EVEN FACE A REAL PUBLIC EXPOSE' OF THEIR ACTIONS?
INVETERATE GAMBLERS WILL GAMBLE ON TWO COCKROACHES RUNNING UP A WALL...SO THERE HAVE GOT TO BE "ODDS"..AT ANY RATE...ANGRY AS USUAL..AT THE HYPOCRISY OF THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER..I SAY..STOP PAYING FOR IT...AND MAYBE THEY'LL LISTEN...BUT I GUESS YOU'D HAVE TO FIRST...SO THERE REALLY IS.....NO HOPE...DAMN! WHAT A DRAG..GUESS I SHOULD FOCUS MY ENERGY ON MY POST APOCALYPTIC DUNE BUGGY ARMY...SOMEONE WILL NEED TO FIGHT OFF THE GIANT POST NUKE INSECTS THAT ARE SURE TO ROAM THE WASTELANDS...BECAUSE THERE WILL BE GIANT INSECTS...YOU CAN BET ON THAT...MAYBE THERE WILL BE BUSINES OPPORTUNITY IN THAT? HUP! THE FUTURE LOOKS BETTER AN BETTER ALL THE TIME...I COULD HAVE MY OWN LITTLE...UHHH..CABLE HOGUE KIND OF INSECT PARTS STAND BETWEEN GILA AND DEAD DOG...ON THE DUNEBUGGY ROUTE...SWEET..I AM A HAPPY MAN!
THE FUTURES SO BRIGHT..I GOTTA WEAR SHADES...
LIVE FREE OR DIE...STOP PAYING FOR YOUR OWN DESTRUCTION...
SEE YOU IN THE TRENCHES...MAYBE...YOUR CELL PHONE WON'T WORK THERE...

No...say it isn't so....Cheney knew about this stuff? Oh, oh....oh.