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It started with one simple question posed by Senator Bernie Sanders to his constituents in an invitation to a town meeting: What does the decline of the middle class mean to you personally?
Over 700 people replied.
A second question was asked in his e-newsletter, The Bernie Buzz: Do you have a story to tell about how gas prices are affecting you?
Over 1200 responses.
"The volume of responses was stunning," Sanders told me. "Most people in my state -- especially in rural areas -- do not feel comfortable telling people about their struggles. 'He has it worse than I do, I'll be fine. Thanks for asking.' It's just not a natural thing [to share these struggles].... The other point that has to be underlined -- this is not an interview at the homeless shelter. These are letters from working families, from middle class families... [and] people who've worked their whole lives who expected to have a minimal degree of economic security but are now finding themselves with nothing."
Here are some excerpts from the letters:
A mother and father in rural Vermont: "Due to increasing fuel prices we have at times had to choose between baby food/diapers and heating fuel. We've run out of heating fuel three times.... The baby has ended up in the hospital with pneumonia two of the times."
A man in north central Vermont: "As bad as our situation is, I know many in worse shape. We try to donate food when we do our weekly shopping but now we are not able to even afford to help our neighbors eat. What has this country come to?"
A mother: "By February we ran out of wood [for the wood stove we use for heat] and I burned my mother's dining furniture. I have no oil for hot water.... We are certainly a country in distress."
A 55 year old man: "I have worked since age 16. I don't live paycheck to paycheck, I live day to day.... I can see myself working until the day I die.... I work 12 to 14 hours daily and it just doesn't help.... I am just tired, the harder that I work, the harder it gets."
A man in a small town: "I have what I used to consider a decent job, I work hard, pinch my pennies, but the pennies have all but dried up.... I began selling off my woodworking tools, snowblower (pennies on the dollar), and furniture that had been handed down in my family from the early 1800s, just to keep the heat on. Today I am sad, broken, and very discouraged."
A woman from Northeast Kingdom: "I have always been a big pusher of 'if you can do something to change your situation, do it'.... [But] it seems like every time [my husband and I] do the right thing and try to move ahead for our family, something out of our control happens in order to slap us back down.... We now find ourselves unsure if we will be able to pay for both the mortgage and our oil next winter."
A working mother of two: "I spend around $150 per week at the grocery store and trust me when I say I don't buy prime rib.... Some nights we eat cereal and toast for dinner because that's all I have. My family has had to cancel our annual trip to the zoo, and we make less trips to see our families in another town due to the increase of gas."
A 71 year old man: "I have been retired since 2000. With the price of fuel oil I have been forced to go back to work just to heat my home and pay my property taxes."
A teacher: "The middle class is no longer the middle class.... I've slipped into the lower class after a winter of double heating costs and now these new economic hits."
Wife and mother of two: "People that I know that have never struggled with money are now frequenting our local food shelf so they can feed their families staple foods! Please listen to our pleas and put ethics first!"
Sanders has read some of the letters on the Senate floor. He says, "This is simply an effort to bring a dose of reality to the floor of the Senate. It's not just Vermont. There are other areas of this country that are worse off. It's important for us to respond to that with appropriate public policies to address this crisis."
Sanders notes that corporate media has completely dropped the ball in informing the citizenry of the staggering economic inequality of our times. "When you talk about the collapse of the corporate media in terms of responsibility," he says, "it's not just the War in Iraq. The other huge story that they have missed is the collapse of the middle class -- the fact that we have tens of millions of people working longer hours for lower wages; that we have the highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world. For the first seven years of the Bush administration, [the media was] simply the stenographers for what the President was saying: 'The economy is robust. We have strong economic growth. Unemployment is reasonably low.' The metaphor is -- it's like the operation was a success but the patient died. The economy is doing great, except for 90% of the people in the economy. The reality is that we have the hollowing out of the American economy. Median family income declined by $2500 in the last seven years. 8 million people lost their health insurance. 3 million people lost their pensions. This is a strong economy? You've gotta be insane to believe that. And yet that is what the Bush Administration was talking about and that's what the corporate media kept on talking about."
Sanders believes the mission of progressives at this moment is twofold. "Number one, we have got to let the American people understand that they are not alone," he says. "What ends up happening when the media doesn't talk about the reality facing ordinary people, then people think 'I must be failing, why can't I make it?'... And the second thing... we have to come up with a progressive agenda which begins to address this economy."
Sanders is bringing together "friends in the Congress, elected officials, and our friends within the progressive community -- the environmental groups, the labor groups, the economic groups, social justice, civil liberties, etc." -- to pursue an inside-outside strategy, building the agenda and mobilizing support at the grassroots to challenge the corporate wing of the Democratic party.
"The goal here is to raise these issues during the campaign," Sanders says, "and have something to present to Senator Obama the day that he's elected. We know that there is enormous pressure on Obama to be looking to the corporate wing of the Democratic party rather than the progressive wing of the Democratic party. The only way we can move this country in a progressive way is with an agenda supported by the grassroots.... We need to figure out how you do it, how to involve grassroots in the process, and how you raise those issues in intelligent ways in the campaign. Ultimately what this agenda must offer, and what I believe the American people are prepared to support -- especially with an inspiring leader like Obama -- is a fundamental change in our national priorities."
Sanders has no illusions about the challenges that lie ahead in pushing an agenda that truly represents working and middle class families, and the poor. (It's worth noting hat these class distinctions are increasingly less relevant as the middle class is squeezed.) But he also sees opportunities to meet the greatest challenges that we face.
"I can tell you with personal experience that the power of the financial institutions, the energy companies, the insurance companies, the military-industrial complex -- they are unbelievable, each and everyone one of them, and we're dealing with each and every one of them. But we can take them on and we can defeat them if we are mobilized and we have an agenda that we are fighting for," he says. "And the very good news -- if you had a president willing to make changes in our national priorities, there are enormous sums of money available to meet the unmet needs of tens and tense of millions of Americans. You have Bush having given hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks. You rescind those tax breaks, you move this country into a progressive tax system, in which you begin to address the incredible gap between the very rich and everybody else through progressive taxation. You can free up huge sums of money to address the problems of childhood poverty, and our infrastructure, and our schools, and the fact that middle-class families and working class families can't afford to send their kids to college.... We have the money to do that."
Sanders cites the waste, fraud and abuse in the $515 billion military budget, and the fact that Democrats are "very timid" in challenging its excesses. For example, the Air Force alone has admitted that it disposes of hundreds of millions of dollars of spare parts annually that it doesn't need. The Department of Defense said it runs on archaic computer systems and "they don't even know where they're spending money. They were honest -- they don't know!" As for energy, he sees an analogy to Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the 1941 Congress looking at the war situation and saying, "'Man, we gotta get our act together." There is an opportunity to transform our system, with solar thermal plants - equivalent to small nuclear plants -- supplying 15-20% of the electricity needed in the US; use of photovoltaic -- which is making great progress in Germany; wind turbines generate 20% of the electricity in Denmark.
You do these things," Sanders says, "you manufacture these products -- wind, solar -- in the United States of America. You're gonna create millions of jobs. This is a progressive agenda -- what does it do? It reverses global warming, it puts America in a position of leadership internationally, so you go to China and export new technology. It creates jobs, and it also cleans up the environment.... That's huge! We know what to do!"
And, of course, there is healthcare.
"For $2-$3 billion a year -- one week of the War in Iraq -- you could open up hundreds of federally qualified health centers around America, so that at the end of a year, you will be providing primary health care access to every American. [These centers] provide healthcare to anyone on a sliding-scale basis. They provide the lowest cost prescription drugs available. They provide dental care which is a huge problem all over America. They provide mental health counseling. For $3 billion you could build hundreds of these clinics and every American would have access to primary healthcare.... And by giving people access to healthcare on a regular basis rather than running to an emergency room when they're sick, probably ends up saving us money."
Sanders believes a bold agenda focusing on the needs of ordinary Americans is a winning one -- both from a public policy perspective and politically. "I think the people are prepared for bold action across the board. What polls tell us is that not only is there unprecedented economic uncertainty, but that people perceive in so many areas that this country is moving in the wrong direction. I mean, the degree to which we are becoming a second-rate economic power, that our healthcare system is disintegrating, that we have a $9 trillion national debt, that we have the highest rate of childhood poverty -- people understand all of these things, and they are wondering what is going on in the country that they grew up in? Say the right thing, and do the right thing, you're gonna win elections.... So, coming out for an agenda that speaks to the needs of the middle-class and working families is obviously good public policy but it's also good politics."
Sanders picks up the booklet comprised of the letters from his constituents. "I want people not to get depressed, and not to become cynical," he says. "This is not Utopian dreaming, we can do these things. We have the resources. It's simply investing where we're not investing. The problems we're facing in this country are, in fact, solvable.
We're currently playing with pennies to address healthcare, the elderly, tuition costs, Head Start. And down the hallway you've got the guys from the Defense Appropriations bill, who are spending money hand-over-fist in the most unaccountable ways. We have the potential to transform America. We have to change our priorities."
With reporting from Capitol Hill by Greg Kaufmann, a freelance writer residing in his disenfranchised hometown of Washington, DC.
Katrina vanden Heuvel is Editor and Publisher of The Nation.
Copyright © 2008 The Nation
81 Comments so far
Show AllI like the cooperative idea. Suppose everything is nationalized and the central government issues charters to co-ops much the way corporate charters are issued today. Then the co-ops pay a tax on earnings to the central government. If a co-op fails, it is assumed and run by the central government if this is consider feasible, until new management can be found, or just closed down if it's not a necessary industry. Also standing wage and price controls would be nice.
ariel-sharon -- "So when are you going to stop supporting illegal immigration????"
Around the same time you stop supporting israel dickwad ... i was trying to figure out where that putrid stink was rising from and TADAAA ... its our old zionist scumbag lurking on CD.
The billions of $$$ that we spend funding the israeli war machine can easily be diverted to ease the burden of poverty-stricken Americans
This whole question of illegal immigration is a joke in many ways. What makes immigration illegal anyway, other than the laws made by Congress. And from time immemorial Congress has done the bidding of American indusry, who are constantly seeking sources of cheap labor. For the 50 years preceding the 20th century, Congress allowed industry to recruit cheap labor from Europe to mine coal, build canals, work in America's mills, and to live in squalor.
At this point in time one part of our industry gets its cheap labor from the illegals crossing our southern border, where their illegal status itself provides the leverage to keep their wages down.
Another part of our industry has found that outsourcing work provides them cheap labor legally, only because Congress makes no effort to stop it. In fact they encourage it. Why not let other countries pay for their education and training.
The people of this country have allowed themselves to be hoodwinked from the day the American Revolution ended.
The immigration dilemma will only be solved when Congress prohibits industry from competing on the basis of wage rates.
Castro figured that out a long time ago. It is my understanding that in Cuba, all workers are paid by the government, and industry must pay the government an amount that provides a living wage (as determined by the government) for their level of skills. Castro does not permit foreign companies to exploit Cuban labor. It is why the American embargo endures.
Jesus, it seriously KILLS me what a bunch of jew-hating scumbags you lefties are. You SERIOUSLY have a problem with Bernie Sanders, the most left wing guy in our WHOLE GOVERNMENT???
That proves you are nothing more then knuckledragging jew-haters, end of story...
lol Huck are you talking about Katrina Vanden Heuval, the lefty fool who writes for the nation and wrote this article? You lefty idiots are so completely retarded that you even attack your own!
karlof1, your words apply to YOU, not to Thomas Moore. YOU are the one unwilling to stand "with your fellows" against power and greed. YOU stand with the elite on this issue, and to try to turn that around on us is simply nonsense.
Huck, that's right! I forgot that not only is Bernie Sanders one of the few in congress that stand up for the people of the USA, he's ALSO got the stones to support israel! Bernie Sanders for president!!!!!!!
Well said, Nathaniel. Katrina's entire existence is to puppet the blue team company line; ignore their own culpability in the forces allied against our Earth Mother, the poor, and disenfranchised. Carry forward the war in Iraq; start another war in Iran, and march lock step with corporate hegemony. Katrina says jump, and the sheeple ask "how high."
Katrina is advocating that Sheehan end her bid to unseat Pelosi-----
Good point. Just so is all pressure removed from the Democrats, so they can continue to enable the fascists as they just did on FISA.
It is incredible how people can believe that the gatekeepers of The Nation-- who still make daily excuses for the Democrats-- can be on the side of the majority of working class Americans. May Katrina one day be forced to read Diary of A Mad Law Professor. And by the way, why has Nation associate editor Max Holland been published on the CIA's website?
karlof1 June 17th, 2008 2:11 pm
In don't know what to say my friend. Illegal immigration is the tool of corporations. It allows them to exploit poor people for cheap labor. It allows them to bypass American workers and get cheap labor. Even if they paid the worker exactly the same wage (which they don't) it would still be far, far cheaper because they have no responsibility for these people. American citizens pay for their schooling, medical care and support when they can no longer work.
Illegal immigration is a real issue. Its only purpose is to help Corporation's bottom lines. Give Racist organizations like LaRaza and MALDEF political power and politicians (they hope) cheap votes.
The worst victim of illegal immigration is the illegal immigrant.
And you are correct...."A house divided cannot stand".....so illegal immigration must stop. "free trade" must stop and become fair trade. Income equality must be restored and I simply mean deconcentrating wealth. A base plan for National Health Care must be put in.
But you cannot do any of these things as long as you aid the Corporations and politicians that help them. It plays right into their hands.
I swear, if you could just see what really goes on, especially around the border, I think you'd change your mind in a hurry. I know I did.
Of course I don't stand with anyone that exploits their fellow human beings.
peasant: I moved to rural western Kentucky, into a house that was vacant. There are plenty of vacant houses for sale here, some for under $10,000. So I'm really not helping to drive up the prices.
What I'm proposing is that people move back to decaying rural areas, places that need more people. The population of my town has been declining for decades; there are empty foundations all over town where buildings once stood. Even now there is a building "downtown" that's literally crumbling as a result of a wind storm in the spring that blew the roof off. There is no money or manpower to fix it or tear it down, so it just sits there slowly decaying. Ultimately, it too will be reduced to an empty foundation. If people would return to these kinds of places, they would be revitalized.
If you need a place to live, I'll help you find a house here :-)
Dave
Thomas More--What a total misuse of the name of a man who stood up to power on principle and lost his life for it.
Immigration IS a wedge issue, and has throughout US history. I HAVE "researched" the issue and it wasn't "Carl Rove" [sic] who dreamed it up. Your unwillingness to stand with your fellows against the power wielded by capital and govenment makes you their accomplice.
But solidarity is tough to come by as hazmat and whatever4 show in their posts. An observant person made this comment quite some time back, and it certainly applies now: "A house divided against itself cannot stand."
Yeah, Bernie is a real hero. He voted on behalf of the Israeli war machine when it invaded Lebanon and created a humanitarian nightmare for non combatants. The terrorist state of Israel wiped out the infrastructure of the country not to mention the thousands of innocent people murdered. All the while Sander's continues to extract Israeli money out of his shorts. What is the cost of innocent human life, after all? Ask Katrina, she can draw on her vast experience of war to tell you while sitting in front of her tv set.
I mean what does a wealthy elitist know about the middle class or what they are going through? I am an environmental activist who lives off less than 10k per year. I don't need Katrina or Sander's telling me about poverty. These people represent galactic stupidity. Try an urban plunge sometime without your credit cards, SUV. or cash, and then come back and tell me about my experience.
re whatever4 11:06am
to your excellent and compassionate points i would add only this quote:
"people who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them."
---eric hoffer
Bernie is Bernie and one of the few that can be counted on to at least try to understand the reasoning behind the mess this country is in and attempt to do something about it. The key word here is attempt. It is a little late, these underlying issues needed to be addressed for a long time and have been ignored by the power elite who only have time to discover new ways to keep their fingers in the pockets of every taxpayer while having their own taxes lowered and lowered. On a brighter note: AlexLawyer..your post made me laugh out loud, thanks for that as the rest of this article and post were way too depressing.
To those who had a care to become more informed about what was going on in our nation and our government, even if it wasn't until the Sept 11 wake-up call, the severe hardships this administration has brought have been coming for a while now. Let's not kid ourselves to that reality. Trouble hasn't been hard to predict, just like it wasn't hard to predict how corrupt BushCo would be, and the story these personal accounts are telling was being predicted at least two years ago.
What's hard for me (and I'm sure many others) is to feel sorry for and to forgive the majority of this nation that went along with the wars and lawbreaking, those that laughed at our Constitution. Those that sided with the side of might makes right are so many of these SAME people in dire straights now. Those crying now didn't care about our cries then, and now it's hurt them. Many of us knew they would have to wake up, eventually, and we knew it would hurt them, while watching it leaves us almost numb.
It's not that I think "they deserve it", because I don't, and I refuse to be so petty. Plus, I'm too smart not to realize that what hurts my neighbors/s can easily hurt me too. I only hope the people of the USA, those proud, red state folks, realize that there is a direct connection in how much they supported our corrupt admin, and how much the corrupt admin has hurt them. When they laughed at the torture. When they laughed at the idea of $100/barrel oil. They laughed, and now oil is closer to $150/barrel than $50. When they laughed at being spied upon, actually saying "If you haven't done anything wrong you, don't have anything to worry about", without for a second applying that same simple logic to the workings of their own government. Even though there were rumors, terrible rumors about terrible things going on. In our name.
It's just like many of us on here knew it would be. They didn't "get it" until it got them. Housing, fuel prices, banking, available and safe food supplies, employment, health care and insurance rip offs. Reliable electricity and help during disasters. A war without end and a world that almost hates us, and the list doesn't even end there, but would fill up pages of comment. Toxic environments and climate changes. Water worries. On and on. Problems either ignored or created by BushCo allowed to ferment for years, during which time we could have headed many of them off, done something, or at the very least, been INFORMED to be more ready. We could have been saving our money, decreasing credit, creating green solutions and revamping industries, but instead the good advice was Gone shopping.
They elected a clown at the worst possible time, it's easy to see. I think it's got them now. Do you think they get it?
fpie June 16th, 2008 1:10 pm
My dad used to say that a recession is when your neighbor is out of work and a depression is when you are out of work. In the new third world USA it doesn't seem to matter if you do have a job since so many of them don't pay enough to live on.
Now there is a man of wisdom!
fakedemocracy June 16th, 2008 3:30 pm
You seem to be confused. Both these guys spoke about illegal immigration, not legal immigration. And calling people names is really getting old. Racist because they understand illegal immigration is a problem? And lets see how California pays for all the illegals in the end. Its an economic issue my friend more than anything else. And if you think those illegals (and most are) on those construction sites are paid the same as citizens I don't know what to say.
LeeAnnG June 16th, 2008 2:33 pm
I just assumed you don't know the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration. I'll just refer you to "MiMiCcS June 16th, 2008 8:05 pm' earlier post, its fairly good.
I'm surprised you fall for the big business trap of "you must be a bigot to oppose cheap labor" I'm surprised you favor exploiting these poor people and consigning them to a life of poverty.
I just can't see (based on prior posts) your favoring the terrible things that are happening on the border, the deaths of hundreds and the sexual; slavery thousands of these poor young women are forced into.
"(Do some research and you will find that immigrants actually contribute more than they get. They pay taxes and social security and get no benefit from it, for example.) Such bigotry!"
What research did you get this from? Check with the State Comptroller in Texas and you will find that illegal aliens cost a billion + more than they pay in taxes of any kind or any other benefits they generate. They are a plus for business but a net deficit to the economy of the citizens of Texas. That "they pay taxes " mantra is false. Most work off the books and many of the services they use don't count as being used by them. Let me guess, you don't live in a border state? You live in a state with few illegal aliens so far. Not meant to be offensive, I just wonder if thats the case?
fanman June 16th, 2008 3:51 pm
There were no native inhabitants in this country.
"And the majority come over all grown up and ready to work, so we get the full benefit of their adult labor without having invested a penny for their education."
I don't know where you live, but thats not the deal in Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Texas.
Accusations of bigotry, xenophobia, racism if you oppose illegal immigration (which I obviously do) are just offensive and odious. Imputing base motives to people that disagree with you without knowing for sure their reasoning or their motives is not an attractive trait. I couldn't care less if somebody has brown skin or is poor. My folks were darn poor when they arrived. But they came in the front door and they didn't ask for special treatment or financial support. As those that break our law and come here illegally and their supporters do.
There were a lot of rude remarks made and rude comments on character made...consider them answered.
As to Bernie, he is a Socialist and I don't agree with him often. I'm not a socialist. But it has nothing to do with how I would view Bernie or his suggestions. Who would care where good suggestions come from. Abnd he is asking to hear from the people he represents. Has your Senator? Mine hasn't.
scottk June 16th, 2008 5:02 pm
Thanks for some real information and sensible posts.
Anyone that thinks illegal immigration is a "wedge" issue or invented by Carl Rove needs to do some more research on the subject.
And I'm with poopdeck. There's just no need for foul language or sophomoric insults here. If you can't make a point without resorting to thiose, perhaps you should rethink your point.
Terrible says:
"All current working class financial problems have as their main source corporate top managment pay. The normal ratio of worker pay to top execs pay is 1 - 40. That is what it is in most countries and what it was in the US until recently. Today in the US it is more on the lines of 1 - 400. What this means is that a small handful of people are recieving the lions share of the wealth created by the workers rather then fairly compensating the workers or reinvesting in the business"
This is certainly not to condone obscene executive pay, but just how much of a worker pay increase would you expect if all executive pay were cut 90%? Not much, I'm afraid.
J D Smith comments:
" Our federal constitution was designed to end forever the emission of bills of credit as legal tender in payment of debts, alike by the individual states and the United States; and it will have that effect, if it is rightly interpreted and firmly enforced."
Why do we think the framers of the Constitution were reliable experts on the issue of money and a monetary system? In reality, there is no convincing evidence that they were.
"In the interpretation of words a cardinal rule is, to conform to usage. In 1787 every English dictionary defined "money" as metallic coin; and therefore as metallic coin, it must be interpreted in the clause which authorizes the legislature of the United States to borrow money."
So now we are asked to believe that the publishers of dictionaries are the ones to rely on for monetary expertise.
"A second cardinal rule of interpretation is, where a word is used in the same document more than once, it is to be interpreted in every instance as bearing the same meaning, unless there is an obvious and incontrovertible reason to the contrary."
And that would lead us to lawyers as the source of true monetary knowledge.
"The constitution of the United States authorizes their legislature to coin money; and of the meaning of the word in that clause, no doubt can exist."
And it also authorizes Congress to "determine the value thereof" (look it up) of the money (gold) that they coin. In other words Congress was actually authorized to create new money from the same amount of gold just by increasing the dollar value of the gold. Who's kidding who?
The key to a good monetary system is to be able to balance the money supply with the amount of goods produced so as to achieve stability in prices. Any system that achieves that is a good system. The use of gold as a monetary base is not essential by any means, and it has many drawbacks, not least of which is its tendency to create deflation (like in the Great Depression).
And BTW, it is not that the current monetary system (the FRS) is at fault - it is that the FRS is owned by the private sector bankers in collusion with private industry. It allows corporations to rule the nation (and the world).
We need a national government owned and operated banking system, that can, in conjunction with government taxing power, achieve a full employment economy and stable prices.
PLUS!
You cant have a revolution if no one can afford the gas to get there
All current working class financial problems have as their main source corporate top managment pay. The normal ratio of worker pay to top execs pay is 1 - 40. That is what it is in most countries and what it was in the US until recently. Today in the US it is more on the lines of 1 - 400. What this means is that a small handful of people are recieving the lions share of the wealth created by the workers rather then fairly compensating the workers or reinvesting in the business. What you end up with in such a situation is the crumbling of the business infrastructure and the wage slavery of the workers. And you can see exactly that situation, the crumbling infrastructure and worker slavery, in every town in America. A society based on greed will eventually devour itself. And that is what we are seeing today here in America and it is no surprise.
Thanks Bernie Sanders for asking your question. It would be good for every Congressman to ask for letters with the answer to this question.
Your ideas on how to fix this country are good, solid ones. I just hope everyone can hold on until Obama takes his oath and begins his tenure. In the meantime, let us help one another out in any way we can and let self interest and greed behind us. It has been a horrific 8 years. Don't be shy in writing your senator and congressman to say so and tell them Impeachment should be on the table as a deterent to crime in government.
The Austin Lounge Lizards said it best: All our problems are caused by "Teenage, immigrant, welfare-mothers on drugs!"
I think I can kind of relate to what the people of Vermont are facing as I live in northern Minnesota. I started out here on land paid for 31 years ago where I pitched the tent. The recession of the mid 70's was the major contributing factor. The price of propane has gotten so expensive I am now thinking of putting a wood burning kitchen stove in my place. For me that will mean keeping 2 fires going.
Vermont, why don't you secede? I hardly think the US would declare war on you. Hell, the little town of Kinney seceded in 1977. The council figured that they could get foreign aide easier than remaining part of the US. It worked out fine for them.
I haven't read any of the comments, but I wonder how we square this piece with the one by Naomi Klein alleging that Obama is essentially a Friedmanesque free-marketeer, having on his economic team various "Chicago Boys" who are billionaires and "free trade" maniacs. How are we going to get the progressive agenda Sanders advocates from a decidedly non-progressive Obama administration? Can we run purely on the convenient illusion that Obama will suddenly actually become progressive once he takes office, after reassuring all his pro-business backers, Wall St. bankers and investors, not to even mention the MIC, that he's on board with THEIR agenda? Or is it the other way around--that he'll do a 180 on his vague promises to progressives and immediately turn into Bill Clinton's economic clone a month after taking the oath? I'd bet on the latter scenario. But McCain is unthinkable and Nader hasn't any more chance than Kucinich does of impeaching the war criminals, so once again as always we're forced to submit to the lesser evil dogma. We'll be doing for this a very long time, until our time has run out and there's no longer a country or world left to live in.
Lou Dobbs has been talking about the collapse of the middle class, bernie, why don't you support him?
I couldn't resist an illegal immigration crack, but this article is a bit to grim to leave it on a wiseass note, to be honest.
This is the worst thing I've ever read on here, and a blatent indictment of the economic treason committed by our countries leaders.
rtdury, this article is about folks in rural areas. People in urban areas do have a lot of low cost options, but those in rural areas often have long drives and only a few choices for their basic supplies. These people rely on a stable price for their living expenses, and a corresponding rise in income with the rise in costs. They arn't getting this, and those close to the bottom are simply going completely under. I run a business in a town that caters to the University crowd. I employ almost entirely college students, and yet lately a lot of older folks from rural areas have been coming in looking for jobs I don't have and they clearly wouldn't have even considered before. Our country is in a horrible state and I can see the results creeping into my everyday life.
Fake, you are an anti-white racist.
LeeAnnG: The super rich are certainly the real issue, and guess what, one of their best weapons is illegal, mass immigration.
Dave, we absolutely need to decentralize food production and bring it back to rural areas. There are other kinds of basic production work that can be done in these areas as well, that would make them sustainable and would contribute to the economic sovereignty of our nation. Instead we have rural sprawl, with destroys greenspace and provides either no jobs at all or very low paying jobs. To change this we will have to chance the very face of this country, and completely redefine development.
Doom n Gloom--I'd say that the problem is too few people getting the vast amount of milk from the cow with not enough left for others.
peasant--Your attempt to paint Dave, the relocalizer, as another type of immigrant taking your livlihood away won't work.
"my wife and I live on $6 per day to eat"
That's pretty good actually. I wouldn't spend more than $3/day for food whether the empire were flying to the moon or crashing into the sea. Rule of thumb: Everything dry/fresh (except herbs/spices) should be under $1/lb. Try ethnic markets.
Another good reason to vote for the Democrats. Sure Obama isn't saying or doing much about it now. First we need to put him in office. Then we worry about getting him re-elected. After he has assured his legacy of change and hope he will probably address these tough issues. It may be in the waning last months of his second term but better late than never.
Even if Obama does nothing about it it's still better to put him in office because at least he's better than McCain. It is always a good idea to vote for the lesser of two evils. It's just smart.
If we all voted for a progressive third party candidate like Nader or McKinney they would begin to address these issues immediately but that may not be a good idea. They are not mainstream candidates and therefore we should not vote for them. That way we can ensure the two party system and make sure third parties never see the light of day. Vote for Obama.
Meanwhile, the Republicans are telling us how brilliantly they have managed the country and how another four years of the same is just what we need. Only people who think the Earth is 6000 years old and that a pair of every animal species on the planet once sailed in a homemade wooden boat believe it.
I would spell the problem a little different, rather than Milton Freedman, try John Maynard Keynes. There must be balance between public and private Enterprise. when the system as it currently is out of balance favoring the private sector, a large infusion of public money for jobs is the answer. The rich will fight that with every bit of their power. It would mean breaking apart all the current contracts organized by the conservatives.
Too many people are milking the cow and not enough are feeding it. People somehow believe this is sustainable behavior.
jskinner:
"If Bernie wants to talk about economic inequality, he should talk about the essence of the issue, which is private ownership of banks. Repeal the Federal Reserve Act and take money-creation out of private hands and you take a huge step toward solving the economic inequality problem and a plethora of social and economic ills that flow from it. Debt-based fractional reserve banking should be prohibited. See Ellen Brown's "Web of Debt" — http://www.webofdebt.com/"
cavedweller:
"Also, jskinner touched on the need to nationalize the banking system. In addition the energy companies, airlines and most other semi-monopolies should be as well. Even the most "liberal" Democrats are really only moderates. It's past time for more radical changes in the systems. While I don't think state ownership of ALL industry is the answer, SOME state ownership of major industry is. At the very least large corporations that have destroyed their competitors should have extensive regulation. The conservative agenda that began in the 1980s that fostered an environment of anything goes has got us where we are today: an economy that has made the oligarchy enormously wealthy while the rest of us barely get by."
John C:
"jskinner says:
"If Bernie wants to talk about economic inequality, he should talk about the essence of the issue, which is private ownership of banks. Repeal the Federal Reserve Act and take money-creation out of private hands and you take a huge step toward solving the economic inequality problem and a plethora of social and economic ills that flow from it."
Yes! You have raised an excellent point.
"Debt-based fractional reserve banking should be prohibited"
If you are advocating a return to the gold standard, you are wrong.
The government needs to have control of money creation through a national bank but you cannot avoid a debt based money system."
George Bancroft (from: A PLEA FOR THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES written several years before the beginning of the 20th century):
"Good money must have an intrinsic value. The United States of America cannot make its shadow legal tender for debts payable in money without ultimately bringing upon their foreign commerce and their home industry a catastrophe, which will be the more overwhelming the longer the day of wrath puts off its coming. Our federal constitution was designed to end forever the emission of bills of credit as legal tender in payment of debts, alike by the individual states and the United States; and it will have that effect, if it is rightly interpreted and firmly enforced."
and (also for A PLEA)
"The money of the constitution.
In the interpretation of words a cardinal rule is, to conform to usage. In 1787 every English dictionary defined "money" as metallic coin; and therefore as metallic coin, it must be interpreted in the clause which authorizes the legislature of the United States to borrow money. A second cardinal rule of interpretation is, where a word is used in the same document more than once, it is to be interpreted in every instance as bearing the same meaning, unless there is an obvious and incontrovertible reason to the contrary. The constitution of the United States authorizes their legislature to coin money; and of the meaning of the word in that clause, no doubt can exist."
Mr. Bancroft wrote "A Plea" in reaction to the supreme court deciding it constitutional for the government to declare paper and ink money/legal tender for settling private debts.
His writing preceeded by nearly 30 years the 1913 act which made the Federal Reserve System one part of the ruin of this nation. The second part was done the same year -- the 16th amendment.
The final nail was in 1933 -- The taking of gold from private citizens, giving it to the FED and almost immediatly raising the price to more than $30/ounce thereby immediately robbing those had been compensated at $20/ounce for the seized gold of much of the value of their paper FRN compensation.
Thank you Woodrow Wilson and FDR. You both read the lines written for you by Bankers pretty good.
DAVE: yeah I probably already live where you moved to, and now I can't afford to buy a house or rent, because you and all your friends came here with a lot more money. Thanks so much. I am sick of being a peasant.
MiMiCcS - All those immigrants BUY stuff, pay rent, taxes, and grow the economy, too. And the majority come over all grown up and ready to work, so we get the full benefit of their adult labor without having invested a penny for their education. And last I knew (and my husband is a green card holder), legal residents DO NOT collect social security benefits. The Repukes snuck it in on one of Clinton's big reform bills, and while he didn't like it, he wasn't willing to veto the legislation because of it. He said he hoped that someday that would be repealed. Still waiting.
Bottom line: The White House Council of Economic Advisers examined the issue and determined that immigrants (regardless of status) raise wages for most Americans (90% by their estimate), are the least likely to be involved in crime, and overall have a positive impact on our economy. And while it is true that emergency rooms are some of the only places they can access health care, they actually don't use our health care system very much (probably seems like it because they always bring the whole family with them to the emergency room -- but there is probably only a small fraction of those Spanish speaking folks you see in the waiting room that are actually there for care). And just because they show up there, doesn't mean they are getting much in terms of actual care. As long as the rich corporate elite can get you to blame poor, brown-skinned, Spanish speaking immigrants for all your problems, they can keep the system (which is the real problem) that makes them rich and keeps the rest of us down.
Here is the URL for that paper (published in June 2007): http://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/cea_immigration_062007.pdf
if an executive in corporate america is not off-shoring, they will be replace by someone who does. I've seen it and heard stories. It's a sad state of affairs that everyone is living in fear, including business leaders. This is a very complex topic, with many different issues (war, corruption, super rich, financial markets, and probably lots of other things I don't know enough about).
I don't know how folks make it in northern Vermont, when the rich from Montreal, Boston, NYC have their second homes there. I spent time up there with my family, and it was wonderful, but very difficult for me to make a living. Wouldn't economic progress mean things would be getting cheaper (homes, etc.)? When I asked a friend this question, he replied "that's communism". Interesting - i hardly doubt he came up with this on his own.
the one thing I do believe is that we need to develop more compassion for everyone, including those who make us angry. We live in a world of violence, whether it's the war, road rage, or the way we communicate and work out problems in the work place, school systems, US politics, etc.). When it comes down to it, we have not figured out how to live in harmony on this earth with others.
Well put, frudmin.
It is worth reading the whole pamphlet of stories posted online by Senator Sanders. Many of them end with the question, "How could this happen?" My answer is 1) Wars are expensive. The present one will cost us $3,000,000,000,000 all put on the credit card, as they say. 2) It has never happened in history that a nation starts an expensive war and cuts taxes. Bush and the US Congress did this. 3) But they only cut the taxes that the government collects, not the indirect taxes caused by depreciation of the US dollar, caused by deficit spending for the war. So we got our war, and everyone got to wave flags, put yellow ribbons everywhere, feel proud and patriotic. And the bill for that war comes not as an IRS claim on your earnings, but as prices going up and up. If Americans want a good quality of life, with employment, access to health care, good public schools, etc., then they should vote for politicians who put a priority on peaceful use of our own money for our own domestic problems. War is waste.
i'm going to love watching you folks burn to the ground. you still don't get it: you're all niggers on this bus. Master don't like any of you "best" and if you got something, anything, HE WANTS IT. from sub-prime to prime most of you 'homeowners' are living on inflated assessed "values" that are devaluing by the minute compounded by the PRECIPITOUS drop of the $$. after THE BANK throws you onto the street you try and find an apartment (who knows, maybe on Xrstmas eve like GM did to it's people), millions and millions of you down the tubes. all the "good folks" who sneered and turned away when all the union jobs went under the bus. sorry, you're not only going to lose that house, you are going to go mad with the loss of your "civilized illusions". Master doesn't share. not with you. not with anybody. AND YOU WOULDN'T STAND UP FOR ANYBODY AND NOW THERE IS NO ONE TO STAND UP FOR YOU.
desgracia.
Ok. where to begin...
My mom is 54, she just graduated college as she was a home-maker most of her life. She lives in a house that is falling apart (the roof is broken)and survives on an annuity that is all that is left after my dad died. If she is lucky, she will find a job that might pay her a living wage. She had no hope of finding a living wage job without that degree. The truth is a diploma is not enough anymore...a public education is not enough anymore. She likes to think that she is middle class, the truth is she's poor.
I'm a recent grad from a trade school. I can now go looking for a job in that trade. So far I've had no luck.
This country needs it's priorities straightened out. Funding a war that is IMO illegal, immoral, and just plain wrong is getting us no-where. Corporations have been deregulated, and that too is wrong. Social programs are being underfunded and that is wrong. What I don't know is how to fix it, how to help.
Our political system is broken and out of date, and it can't fix it's self. Short of a revolution or an occupation, I don't see how we can continue as we are. Both options are most likely going to be violent and bloody, but the world can't just sit there and let us continue on the destructive and self-destructive path. They can't afford to let us continue to wage war on innocent people with weapons that are toxic to not just our enemies.
We will be stopped (I hope), but will it be too late...
I see us heading into disaster, but can do nothing to stop it.
My chance to stop this has past, it was the vote of 2000, and I lived in Florida at that time. I didn't vote and even if I had I'm not sure it would have counted.
Hope-It is a lost art.
I wonder if Bernie asked these good people how many of them voted for Reagan, Bush & Bush, thus signing their own death warrants. It's great to see the light when the train hits you, but too many sheep going along with the slaughterhouse owners is what put us in this mess. I wonder how many thought invading Iraq, spending our lives and treasure, was "the right thing to do". How many thought the flag was more important than the truth?
The "illegal immigration crisis" is a false flag operation invented by the Republicans to divert the attention of their base ("real" white xenophobic Clinton-hating 'mericans) from the myriad disasters their policies have caused. Why was there no "immigration problem" before the 2004 election? Because the repukes needed a new tactic to inspire their dwindling base. Rove invented the crisis then and it continues as a GOP staple. I wonder how many of Bernie's interviewees fell for it?
PJD, I only meant they would not be worth using if you did not pay them poverty wages, most don't speak English, so they probably would not be worth the trouble if you had to pay them a living wage, their only attractive to corporate because of how cheap they will work, once you take that out of equation, they are not attractive to corporations any more. But hey continue withe race bating its working for you.
"The whole "illegal immigration" thing has been debunked so many times, it's almots not worth arguing about. Immigrants are less of a percentage of the population now than they have been many times in history, and if the US government hadn't pushed NAFTA on us, this would be a total non-problem"
This is so much BS. Fertility rates since the 70's have been at or below replacement levels. Our increase in population from 200 million to 300 million is entirely immigration related. Illegal and legal immigration, and the children these immigrants have while in the US have accounted for 100 additional people as our economy has globalized and sent millions of manufacturing jobs overseas.
The surplus of labour has meant wage suppression below real inflation, and declining standards of living. It has also reduced technological innovation companies would have been required to implement to make up for the shortage of cheap labour.
Not all immigration is bad, but too much immigration in an economy that is no longer expanding as it did 50-100 years ago is.
As for Social Security and Taxes. Since the 1970s the Social Security Administration has concluded so-called "Totalization Agreements" with about 20 different countries, under which foreign workers may have their Social Security deductions sent to their home country program (rather than the SSA), and vice-versa. One of the primary objectives of the agreements is to eliminate dual Social Security taxation as would occur when a worker sent to the U.S. by his employer must pay tax to both the United States and his home country. Negotiations with Mexico to add them to the list retroactively have been completed and pending Congressional approval.
Consulting and contracting firms recruit so-called temporary workers in other countries, especially India, and bring them to the United States under the H-1b program. They farm out these foreign programmers to large U.S. companies that do not want to add permanent employees to their payrolls or to replace higher-paid American workers whose jobs have been eliminated. Still other clients are state governments that contract out computer work. Because they are employed by the consulting firm that recruited them, many of these foreign workers are paid either in cash or by check – and no money is withheld for U.S. income tax, Social Security, Medicare, state, or local taxes.
Also, as for the cost of immigrants. Education and health care are significant. Uninsured immigrants end up in the Emergency Room to get health care, and unpaid bills are subsidized by the Federal Government. They use our city parks, roads, and other infrastructure. And after working six years without paying Social Security taxes many H-1bs get Green Cards, qualifying them for Social Security benefits when they retire.
jskinner says:
"If Bernie wants to talk about economic inequality, he should talk about the essence of the issue, which is private ownership of banks. Repeal the Federal Reserve Act and take money-creation out of private hands and you take a huge step toward solving the economic inequality problem and a plethora of social and economic ills that flow from it."
Yes! You have raised an excellent point.
"Debt-based fractional reserve banking should be prohibited"
If you are advocating a return to the gold standard, you are wrong.
The government needs to have control of money creation through a national bank but you cannot avoid a debt based money system.
normvincent says:
"How were so many highly educated "middle-class" professionals similarly fooled??? That is what really makes me scared!"
The answer is quite simple. They were fooled because, despite their education, they were/are fools - and always have been.
"For the sake of a "job" we work for the Corporations that are killing US. Now, how much sense does that make - ask yourself."
Working for a corporation makes sense because you have few other options.
"Individual greed has morphed into the monster of Corporate greed."
Corporate greed was always there, Only a fool could not see it, and it was a fool who thought he was part of it, and it was a fool that scoffed at the union blue collar worker whose efforts brought the raises to the professionals.
"Now, we will pay the price."
That's for sure. But you might still have a chance if you stop being a fool.
"Whom among you doubts that? The shit has barely hit the fan. When it does….we - the USA - will blow up the world. Not because the people want that, but because, by our ignorant election of the people you now see in Washington, They will do it - in our name.
Kiss your Ass Goodbye !"
Just think if every worker from a factory hand to department manager up to the corporate executive level were members of an organized democratic national union dedicated to preserving a full employment productive society with cradle to grave social security for ALL workers - just think of the possibilities for averting the disaster you correctly foresee. Don't be the fool that you were in the past, and make it happen.
Corporations now rule the world, but a union like I describe can easily rule every corporation - and the government
W. Bush and his UNLAWFULL WAR is the MAIN CAUSE of all the problems this country has. SIEG HEIL DECEIVER W.BUSH, you got what you wanted to avenge the loss of your fathers war against Sadam. Mission accomplished. Now the rest of your country and fellow men can dropp dead.
The point of this for me is the idea that these solutions Bernie proposes and points out, will provide jobs and take little money to set up, as he says. I have always wondered about this, and wondered why no one has proposed this before. As he says, this is pretty much what FDR did. I don't care if it's socialist, Dem or Rep, we need something now. Too many people are suffering, going hungry, ill, and have lost hope. It's almost as if staying alive is a luxury itself.
auntEm--The postal system is nationalized; it even had a cabinet-level position: Postmaster General. Your trepidations regarding the downfall of Corporate-led Globalization are well founded; I agree, but only because of the way the economy is currently structured. Another pardigm is possible as you somewhat articulate. I would expand on that and say Co-ops based on bio-regions that are socially owned as are municipal-utliities. Commerce would still occur. There would still be globalization, but controlled for the social, not corporate, good. The key is solidarity against the BAU paradigm, which includes the immigration wedge issue instigators. They are provacateurs of the old-style, which is employed often as it is still shown to work.
To live, one must work; to be denied work, is to be sentenced to death. A lot of work needs to be done but the jobs to do that work go unfilled because of the way the economy's structured. Example: Massive amounts of environmental clean-up must be accomplished, but the jobs are unfilled because unfunded as the monies went to promote and prosecute war. I can list many others that would provide millions of jobs, as can most anyone with an imagination and a willingness to look around.
So, enough of the wedge issues and their promoters. Instead, stand in solidarity to change the system and better everyone's life.
Everyone but the rich are struggling to make ends meet in this Republican lead and mislead economy. Nothing substantial is going to change until the leadership changes. . .that's the problem with the rich being in charge. They are incapable of seeing, feeling, acting upon or hearing the pleas of the populas.
The gas and energy prices are out-of-control, mainly due to the drop in the value of the dollar, the increased world demand and the speculation in the oil commodity markets. A windfall profits tax would help stabilize the market by taking away the incentive to hijack the market and gouge the public. Reversing the Bush tax cuts for the rich would also help with the balancing the budgets; afterall, it is they [the rich] who benefited the most from the last 8 years, Bush policies and practices, war profiteering, screwing the public during emergencies like New Orleans, etc. and the political patronage; it is time for them to pay the piper for all the dancing music.
The only good thing about the oil prices, it that the money spent on discretionary goods now goes to basics which means less for the useless rich (TV hosts, entertainment, designer digs, over-priced luxury cars, over-priced real estate, etc).
Now to straighten out the Congress of the US, so it acts in the people's interest instead of their own.
What is happening to the USA looks a lot like what happened to the USSR. While all the beautiful slogans still hold sway, reality seems to be quite different. Eastern Europe never recovered from the oil crisis of 1973, but it still managed to hang in there for another 16 years and thanks to shock capitalism it took most people another 15 years to get back to a pre 1989 income level. During all those years while having a job meant nothing because you only made so little money and anyway there was nothing to be bought since supermarkets (they had them there too) were always empty, people survived on their datsja's, their little flocks of private owned soil where they grew vegetables and potatoes to turn into vodka.
Huh? We are expecting justice from rich congressmen? Oh yeh....THAT is going to happen.
PJD, I take this anti immigration stuff personally as well. Did you know that there are an estimated 250,000 illegal Irish immigrants in New York?
I liked the comment about sustainable living in cities. Gardens are possible, and so is a caring community.
I live in a rural area and life is really hard here for people with little money. I'm fortuanate to have social security, a small pension, and a warm and comfortable place to live. There aren't many jobs, good or otherwise. I can't imagine the mess we would have in our county if all the "self-sustaining" city folks moved here and burned up our forests and got on our case for shooting deer, rabbits and squirrels to eat.
What Sanders is talking about is that lots of people, our neighbors, are suffering through some extremely hard times. We need progressives in power. We all need to be politically active. Remember: We are all better off when we are ALL better off.
Wonderful examples here of immigration being used as a "wedge" issue, as I noted above. The key here is the term "manual labor." For a very long time, "whites" have viewed such labor as below their status, and treated people holding such jobs as no better than "trailer trash." Such notions have been finely engrained over centuries by the propaganda and indoctrination systems to forestall the solidarity that could overthrow the capitalist. This whole issue was recognized as what I've just described by the labor movement prior to and after the Civil War; it was violently combated by government and capitalists in brutal physical confrontations that killed many; and it was/is insideously combated through the aforementioned propaganda and indoctrination systems. Those writers positing the govenment/capitalist view are cogs in that system, paid for or not.
Want a good paying job with a great future provided you don't get injured? There are thousands of jobs waiting in the Oil Patch, many physical, but some intellectual. Point a person to Alberta, Houston, New Orleans, Rio, and the ports that harbour the support vessels. Jobs exist; they just aren't the cushy 9-5 desk jobs associated with the middle and upper-middle class.
karlof1 June 16th, 2008 4:24 pm sez:
"Corporate-led Globalization is in retreat."
Wish that were true. If it is, I am very afraid of what it's LAST GASP will look like (or feel like). They won't go down gently.
cavedweller June 16th, 2008 3:56 pm. Touches on the need to "Nationalize" the banking system and many other industries. All I can say is - be careful what you wish for. There is a big difference between "Nationalizing" and other forms of public ownership.
Our country is TOO BIG and the Corporations are too large to be Nationalized. They would still be too powerful. Ordinary citizens would still be out of any ability to control or even see what is going on. I do believe in Public Ownership, but only ownership by smaller public organizations that are small enough for ordinary people to have a voice in selecting management and influencing policies without going through many layers of control.
This is where Public Utilities shine. They can be city owned (municipals), or rural district owned (actual utility districts or co-ops). There are many of them in the United States. They don't compete with each other. They simply provide a specific service efficiently in a specifc district and are owned jointly by their own consumer-customers.
Such things as Prisons, Libraries and Schools have traditionally been publicly owned by cities, counties or school districts, not owned and operated by the Federal Government, and certainly should not be owned and operated by private corporations (as Prisons are now). And there should be no requirement that every school teach the same things out of the same texts or give the same exams. The latter is what we seem to have today.
These functions should NOT be Nationalized, but they should be publicly owned.
But I would never Nationalize manufacturing or selling functions or Agriculture or Grocery stores. Most of these functions can be better owned and operated by SMALL corporate entities or partnerships and run by people with skills and experience and love of what they are doing.
The key here is "SMALL". National government must set limits on corporate size and enforce those limits. The national government must set other rules on the corporations regarding environmental and labor standards.
The postal system probably does work best if it is Nationalized.
contd...
So, pardon me if I take this anti-immigration stuff a little personal.
The disappearance of the middle class means that the USA is lurching towards Third World status; as the lack of a middle class is a prime facet of a Third World status. Fascists and corporations love Third World nations, as they provide cheap labor, next to non-existent health and safety regulations, and plenty of opportunity to cheat on tax bills as the local officials are quite bribable. There is also a side benefit for all the anti-illegal immigration zealots, people will be desperate to leave instead of arriving.
Another question,
When you go past an average building construction site in many US cities -even sometimes union sites, and see mostly latinos working there, how many of them are are actually illegal immigrants? I suspect not very many most of the time. They are working here perfectly legally. So, are you anti-illegal immigrant, or might you just be a plain-old anti-immigrant nativist? I thing the answer can be found in youre remark:
"If they had to pay them a living wage, they are not worth it..."
When immigrant workers were doing their invaluable union organizing and sometimes dying for it, in the mills from Lowell Mass and Pittsburgh, the mines of Matewan, WV, to Butte MT to the logging camps in Oregon, how many of them were illegal?
My Irish and Italian ancestors probably came over here illegally, does this make me at least partly an illegal?
PJD, your solution to illegal immigration would still not work, first, no company would hire them if they had to pay them a living wage, they are not worth it, you cannot even communicate with most of them with out a translator, second, even if you did have a living wage, these illegal would still just work illegal and under the living wage in a lot of industries because that would be the only way company would hire them, third, if they couldn't find work, then they may collect more social benefits, in which case that would give the repugs the opening they need to further destroy the "welfare" system. The only real solution to the problem is work place enforcement on steroids.
fakedemocracy, your argument is a canard, read Tomasky's Left for Dead, he covers illegal immigration in their, and he questions why the left is doing the bidding of corporate America over their working class constituents. So yes, fakedemocracy, you can be a progressive and also acknowledge the great damage illegal immigration has done to this country, especially the working class of this country. Its amazing to me that you would call people who are worried about the plight of semiskilled workers in this country,repugs, because it is people like you who are doing the bidding of corporate America not them.
Bit off-topic, but there is nothing all that sustainable about rural living.
I moved to the city, and it was there that I felt I was living sustainably for the first in my life, in that I didn't need a car for everything. There was also a greater a sense of community and shared public space than in suburban or many rural areas.
There are plenty of places for vegetable gardens in the city too.
As far as illegal immigration, if there were a livable wage for all, immigrants undercutting wages woiuldn't be an issue, wouldn't it? So, when you attack immigration, you are barking up the entirely wrong tree
I should also point out that the history of the US labor movement has been one of immigrants doing the hard work of organizing the workplace, while the protestant/anglo-americans grumble and bellyache.
LeeAnnG, I live in Iowa and can tell you right now you are dead wrong about illegal immigration, I have watched hundreds of people loose 20 dollar jobs to illegal's who will do it for 8, I work in construction and can tell you amount of illegal's doing jobs that used to pay middle class wages is staggering, it used to be you could raise a family on a janitors wage, but not anymore not with this supply of slave labor who will work for nothing. I have a saying about illegal immigration: If we cannot ship your job to the third world, then we will simply ship the third world to your job. The left is doing the bidding of corporations on the illegal immigration issue and it makes me sick.
Thank you Bernie.
I love it when a wealthy elitist like Katrina alludes to wasteful spending by politicians and ignores mentioning that some of the biggest pork barrel spenders happen to be one of her handlers like Pelosi, another happens to be Clinton, and another happens to be Obama. Katrina is advocating that Sheehan end her bid to unseat Pelosi. Remember her: she took impeachment off the table, she blacklisted Kucinich's bid to follow through with impeachment and then threatened the Cat with her rich Israeli friends lobby. Follow poor little Katrina's dysfunctional narrative by what it does not tell you assuming anyone hear is still interested in the truth instead of the blue team psychology that she shamelessly pumps.
Immigration is a divide and conquer issue meant to forestall solidarity, just like the racism before it that also continues.
The letters should be used as ammunition to bombard other congresspeople, especially candidates. And yes, the propaganda system is "ignoring" the problem because its continuance is reliant on the opposite. But as the disconnect grows, its remaining credibility wanes. This is why the strikes and other disruptions happening in Europe and Asia are supressed. Corporate-led Globalization is in retreat.
Bravo LeeAnn! Amazing how some "progressive" posters on this site get all self righteous about "illegal immigrants". I'd like to see them speaking out against NAFTA or the companies who happily hire these so-called illegal aliens and make a huge profit out of their cheap labor.
It's been a long, long fall from upper middle class. Now we know how Lucifer felt after his long fall.
As to Aerial_Sharon: Isn't he one of the undead? Rejected by both Yahwah and Iblis.
As to Immigrants: I'm glad to see new blood coming to pay for the Bush nakba and to help replenish our plundered Social Security.
Fakedemocracy: Shut the hell up. Repugs like you stink.
You must assume that I am a moron who cannot judge what Ariel and Adele wrote. You are wrong, I do not need your cheap smears to understand what A & A argue. I mostly disagree with them but they have just as much right to use this site as you do. I have stopped reading blogs on several sites because of the filthy language used and allowed. I hope that this is not going to happen here.
Sen. Bernie Sanders is one of the few in government who doesn't seem to be under the thumb of the corporations that own Congress. Unfortunately, he is only one voice in that body who hasn't sold out his constituents.
Also, jskinner touched on the need to nationalize the banking system. In addition the energy companies, airlines and most other semi-monopolies should be as well. Even the most "liberal" Democrats are really only moderates. It's past time for more radical changes in the systems. While I don't think state ownership of ALL industry is the answer, SOME state ownership of major industry is. At the very least large corporations that have destroyed their competitors should have extensive regulation. The conservative agenda that began in the 1980s that fostered an environment of anything goes has got us where we are today: an economy that has made the oligarchy enormously wealthy while the rest of us barely get by.
Don't you think we ALL are ILLEGAL Imigrants?
Just how many of you were invited to this country by the native inhabitants??
Ariel Sharon and AdeleTheCzech-
Shut the hell up. Repugs like you stink. Your racist anti-immigrant premise, clothed in some subtle critic which is really a conservative attack doesn't belong on a progressive website like this. Conservative guys like you who supported the war ARE the problem.
Here in Southern California- yeah we do have alot of immigrants doing construction AT THE SAME COST as hiring a white guy to do it. $25/hour -immigrant or white. So I really don't see the immigrants here undercutting any honky paychecks. Infact all I see of the white construction workers is LAZINESS and INCOMPETANCE. White guys- don't show up on time... and are usually on drugs if they're doing construction labor. Latino's- show up early and get the job done without smoking dope.
Your attack is really intended to denigrate Senator Bernie Sanders because he is a Socialist. Sort of funny that he's the only guy asking "How's your family doing today?". By the way, what's your Senator doing today?
I hear WAL-MART is hiring... so what's the problem???
I admire Bernie Sanders and feel much empathy for the people struggling. Unfortunately, there is no quick fix. The symptoms we are suffering today have their roots as far back as a century ago, but things really started deteriorating about three decades ago when the U.S. reached its economic zenith.
Another unfortunate fact is, in a world of peaking resources amid growing demand for those resources from developing countries, there is no possible way we can continue the "American way of life" as we've known it for the last five decades. We absolutely have to be mature enough to say we've reached the end of that line.
So what way of life can we maintain? We need a major paradigm shift to a scaled down, localized existence. Such an existence doesn't have to be unpleasant or spartan. In fact, if people would open their minds, such an existence can be far more pleasant then the one they struggle to maintain today.
I grew up in urban areas and lived in them most of my life. Then a few years ago I started to recognize the unsustainability of our "way of life" and so I moved to a rural area. At first it was very difficult to adjust to. The climate was very different, the culture was very different and I was terribly lonely. But after a while I began to appreciate what a nice place this is, a paradise of sorts: the air is fresh, the sounds I hear are mostly those of birds and crickets, I watch squirrels carelessly munching nuts by day and fireflies blinking on and off by night, I have a thriving fruit and vegetable garden, the people are very nice, there is very little crime. I also derive feelings of considerable security from knowing that my house and everything I own is paid for. If nothing else I have a roof over my head and food to eat.
I do understand that Bernie's letters came mostly from people living in rural Vermont, and I don't have a ready answer for them, nor could I without knowing more about their individual situations. The dire circumstances of rural Vermonters might seem to undermine my argument that returning to a rural, localized existence is the solution. Perhaps part of the problem in Vermont – as well as practically all other rural places, including my own – is that there are not enough people yet doing what I suggest. A long time ago most Americans lived in rural areas and those communities thrived and were sustainable and provided housing, food, and jobs. But the mass exodus since the 1950s from rural America to urban America has left many rural areas hollow shells of their former selves, making them barely sustainable. Perhaps if enough people returned to rural areas they would become viable again and once again provide meaningful, local jobs capable of sustaining families. Ironically, in a way the return to rural living has already begun, just not in a constructive way. In many locales the newest housing developments are so distant from urban centers that they are in the midst of former rural agricultural land! But that's just a return to a former rural locale, not a return to genuine rural living like I advocate.
Notwithstanding the plight of rural Vermonters, I'm certain that there are many urbanites like me who are in a position to buy a house in a rural area and establish a modicum of independence and financial/food security. My large house and large lot cost me the equivalent of just three years of rent on a modest apartment in California.
In addition to changing our attitudes about where we choose to live, we absolutely have to change our attitudes about consumption and debt, which go hand in hand. Again, in the old days people rarely thought about buying things on credit, save a house. And even for a house people usually scrimped and saved for a sizable downpayment. I recall that when I was a kid we actually saved up money to buy a swingset for the backyard. Today parents wouldn't think twice about charging such a purchase to one of their many credit cards.
Since I now live on next to nothing and have practically no income, I've had to exercise even more financial discipline than even I'm accustomed to. I canceled all my credit cards to eliminate the temptation to use them – I've found that even for me it's all too easy to accumulate a balance that persists beyond a single month. So I pay cash for everything. That really gives me pause when buying something, especially since I know I don't have any money coming in. Consequently, I consume far less. I buy only essentials. I buy things when they're on sale. And you know what? Instead of being unhappy about it, I'm delighted. I like NOT accumulating stuff. I like NOT spending money or driving my car. In fact, it's become sort of a game to see how long I can go without doing either. My current record is about two weeks of not driving the car and one week of not spending money.
Believe me, although I've always been somewhat frugal – I come from a family of frugal people – I've never been this frugal. This has been a major change for me, but a very worthwhile one that I don't regret for a moment. If I have any regret it's that I didn't do this sooner.
Now if I could just convince a few like-minded people to move out here...
Dave
"it's not just the War in Iraq..."
Agreed, but the illegal invasion of Iraq and all the military spending in general certainly contributes. I calculated my "share" of the federal military budget (state as 58% for next year) and I will contribute over $600 per MONTH to weapons...to the Merchants of Death. I can think of much better ways to spend that $600. What if all this money went to something LIFE AFFIRMING, like healtcare and education? We need to stop wasting money on DEATH and GREED.
"it's not just the War in Iraq..."
Agreed, but the illegal invasion of Iraq and all the military spending in general certainly contributes. I calculated my "share" of the federal military budget (state as 58% for next year) and I will contribute over $600 per MONTH to weapons...to the Merchants of Death. I can think of much better ways to spend that $600. What if all this money went to something LIFE AFFIRMING, like healtcare and education? We need to stop wasting money on DEATH and GREED.
The whole "illegal immigration" thing has been debunked so many times, it's almots not worth arguing about. Immigrants are less of a percentage of the population now than they have been many times in history, and if the US government hadn't pushed NAFTA on us, this would be a total non-problem. The myth that there's a great ethic underground sucking all the jobs and money from the middle class is such unmitigated nonsense.
If the poor were sucking the money from the middle class, they'd be rich. Why focus on the immigrants when it's the super rich who are the real issue? I just read in the Nation that it would take 10,000 years (yes, that was ten thousand) for a worker at $10.00 per hour to make what one of the richest 400 Americans makes in one year. No matter what the immigrants do or don't do to the economy, it's very, very, very insignificant in comparison.
Makes me wonder if the "illegal immigrants" were white Anglo Saxons or Euopeans, would you people have the same reaction? (Do some research and you will find that immigrants actually contribute more than they get. They pay taxes and social security and get no benefit from it, for example.) Such bigotry!
I'm with you, Ariel_Sharon, regarding Bernie's knuckleheaded position on illegal aliens.
Except for migrant pickers, who really DO do work Americans won't do, any other jobs -- contruction, medical/hospital aides, landscaping, resorts, etc. -- should be reserved for unemployed Americans and legal residents. We can always invite in more legal immigrants if we ever reach full employment, but we're a long way from that!
(Otherwise, though, Bernie's pretty much my hero.)
If Bernie wants to talk about economic inequality, he should talk about the essence of the issue, which is private ownership of banks. Repeal the Federal Reserve Act and take money-creation out of private hands and you take a huge step toward solving the economic inequality problem and a plethora of social and economic ills that flow from it. Debt-based fractional reserve banking should be prohibited. See Ellen Brown's "Web of Debt" -- http://www.webofdebt.com/
And, By the Way, Professionals are now being "OutSourced." And, we ALL let it happen by voting for the same old bunch of politically and Corporately connected crooks. You know, that your average 'joe blue-collar' was fooled...well that is understandable. But, how were so many highly educated "middle-class" professionals similarly fooled??? That is what really makes me scared!
For the sake of a "job" we work for the Corporations that are killing US. Now, how much sense does that make - ask yourself. Individual greed has morphed into the monster of Corporate greed. Now, we will pay the price. Whom among you doubts that? The shit has barely hit the fan. When it does....we - the USA - will blow up the world. Not because the people want that, but because, by our ignorant election of the people you now see in Washington, They will do it - in our name.
Kiss your Ass Goodbye !
Thanks for caring about the middle class Bernie. So when are you going to stop supporting illegal immigration????
The simple truth is that this is what the GOP has been going for: The transformation of the US into a Third World country with a huge gap between the rich and poor, the educated and the non-educated.
I lived in Brazil for four years, where the rich live behind four wall and private drivers ferry their kids from private schools to language and ballet lessons. The public schools are a joke, education is a joke, but labor is cheap. The impoverished and fearful will work for much less than the educated and healthy.
On the other hand, the profit margins are significantly greater.
That's all they're after. Is cheap labor too much to ask for?
Living behind walls (except during those vacations to Gstaad and Aruba) is a small price to pay.
The reality is that we are not getting the truth. Unfortunately, they can drum it into our brains that the surge is working - and some of us may think so - but the reality of our pocketbooks prove that the rosy predictions of our economy are flat out lies. The truth is that the cost of food is up 40% in less than 2 years, but to hear the government tell it, it's only up 1.5% because the Consumer Price Index doesn't count the things that we are actually buying. Good grief, anyone who is thinking of voting for McSame, please come to your senses!
My dad used to say that a recession is when your neighbor is out of work and a depression is when you are out of work. In the new third world USA it doesn't seem to matter if you do have a job since so many of them don't pay enough to live on. Imagine how bad it will be when the bill for Bush's war comes due.