I am truly impressed by all the interesting contributions to the topic of fascism. It is always possible to discern elements of fascism in every society and in every political movement but that does not make them fascist or, in my view a much better term, Nazis. I have lived with the real fear of arrest and deportation by them during WW2 in The Netherlands. I do not have that fear now.

President Bush has shown us the shtick: when you run out of rational arguments holler "Hitler", or "Munich", or "Chamberlain", or all of these.

The first biographer of Hitler, Konrad Heiden, has shown that the necessary condition for the rise of Nazism was what he called "the declassing", that is to say the fear that persons of "higher class" have that they have sunk permanently into the "lower classes". If he is correct then the danger of rising Nazism in the USA comes mainly from our sinking "middle class" and less from the corporate barons. If Heiden is correct, then neither Obama nor McCain can stop it. A "lost war" in Iraq could be the trigger.

One word about "corporate state". Among the fascist nations of the 20th century there were significant differences. Hitler's Germany appeared to be a corporate state but was really an incredibly complex bouillabaisse of competing powers of economic organizations, too many to list here. At the other end was the truly corporate state of Portugal's Salazar. Mussolini's Italy and Franco's Spain were sort of in-between. One hallmark of the corporate state is that there is only ONE state-controlled labor union and all workers MUST be members of that union. The USA is obviously NOT a corporate state. If we keep using old words for new phenomena we will never understand them.

poopdeck,

I agree with you in that I don't think that anyone is saying McCain is a fascist in the mold of 20th century fascists. At the same time I think he has right-wing beliefs that are fascistic or could lead to 21st century fascism. McCain and most conservative republicans fit many of Britt's 14 defining aspects of fascism.

Appeal to the common man was more of a rhetorical tool in 20th century fascist movements. It was also a response to different historical and cultural contingencies. In fact I hate to admit it, but a small part of me admires the culture of fascism insofar as it bred excitement, solidarity and populism. Of course, these served nefarious ends and it is precisely these ends that define fascism and made it such a horrible force. The really pernicious legacy of fascism is statism, racism, militarism and a corporate state.

21st fascism will not be identical to 20th century fascism, but it seems to be rearing its ugly head.

Tell their Honors to read the history of Magna Carta and why those barons forced King John to seal it at Runnymede in 1215.

Considering our Supreme Court judges view, it's interesting to know that the American Bar Association had put up a memorial at Runnymede with a stone recalling the return visit "to renew its Pledge of Adherence to the Great Charter."

Magna Carta included the writ of "habeas corpus," fought for and won almost 800 years ago and passed on into the Constitution of the United States. Often called "The Great Writ", it says a person can seek relief from unlawful detention of himself or another by arbitrary state action.

Here are Dr. Laurence W. Britt's "Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism," published by Free Inquiry magazine in May 2003.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

Dr. Laurence W. Britt examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

[These are just the heads; read the article for the full explanation of each item.]

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -

4. Supremacy of the Military -

5. Rampant Sexism -

6. Controlled Mass Media -

7. Obsession with National Security -

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
9. Corporate Power is Protected -

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -

14. Fraudulent Elections -

I think Bush's America at least qualifies as a petit fascist state by these definitions.

Dear Samson. Thanks for your stimulating discussion on fascism. Here are the key sections from "Vichy France".

"Strictly speaking, as an ideal type, fascism is a mass anti-liberal, anticommunist movement, radical in its willingness to employ force and in its contempt for the upper-class values of the time, sharply distinct not only from its enemies on the left but also from its rivals on the right, traditional conservatives."
"Where conservatives want social structure to be hierarchical, fascist mass rallies in uniform colored shirts display a leveling egalitarianism before the leader. Economically fascists make their appeal to the solitary 'common man' against the organized 'interests' of society from bankers and landlords to trade unions. (Later the author points out that Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco accepted support from bankers, etc. to come to power but once in power they did not allow bankers to have any say in ruling. Opposition of a banker landed him in a concentration camp together with communists, etc.). Where conservatives show a distaste for mass participation and prefer government by a few established families, fascists-children of the era of mass politics instead of survivors of elitist nineteenth-century Europe-attempt to marshal mass affirmations. Fascists often prefer a Dyonysiac pagan vigor to the social bulwark of churches."
One key issue is the attitude towards established churches. Fascists need to destroy or neutralize these to grab and hold on to power. Power-sharing is a despicable concept in fascism.
There is absolutely no operative kinship between the current American Republican Party and the German National Socialist Workers Party and the Italian Fascist movements. I wrote, indeed, about the GOP and McCain. There is no rational justification to call them fascists. In fact that would be dangerously counter-productive as it would steer our concerns away from the real fascists among us. When you read the description by Robert Paxton, you might be tempted to conclude that the American Democratic Party is a fascist party too: sharply distinct not only from their enemies on the left but also from their rivals on the right, traditional conservatives; mass rallies with a leveling egalitarianism towards the leader; economic appeal to the common man; vigor. Hey, we've got to be cautious with what we call fascists! It may come back to confirm what Pogo once said: "we have met the fascists; they are us!"

The POTUS race has been on for several weeks now. What have I learned? Senator Obama is winning the "decible war".

This is one of my favorite quotes:

The strategic adversary is fascism... the fascism in us all, in our heads and in our everyday behavior, the fascism that causes us to love power, to desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us.
-Michel Foucault

Does Foucault misuse fascism here? I think not. He distances his use of the word from historical fascism by locating it in our attitudes and behaviors. Fascism is the apotheosis of power, the religion of statism. Fascism is a pathology that can take different forms in different times.
To deny the existence of fascism in today's world is to deny the way in which power and specifically state power is used to dominate and exploit. It gives too much credit to the past and not enough to the present.
I agree with my opponents that Fascism is a strong term, but I suggest we use it more to point out the severity of exploitation and domination for love of power.

Re: Fascist

Fascism has nothing to do with genocide. Fascism is a political system that basically deifies the state and applies the principles of militarism and imperialism to its own people. Hitler was certainly not the only fascist. Franco and Mussolini were no less fascist, in fact, Mussolini invented modern Fascism. Since the fascist state is usually based on national identity, the state is generally a racist state. Nevertheless, the fascist state is not necessarily genocidal. Genocide is not the only evil of Fascism.

By my definition America is not a fascist state, but a corporate, militarist, imperialist state. The question is how long can we avoid these American tendencies from transforming the entire political system into something violently nationalistic and racist. If this is the case, isn't it important to talk about Fascism and the threat of a fascistic America. We need to be very careful that this war on terror doesn't infiltrate our domestic policy, fuel a violent anti-Arab sentiment, and destroy our civil liberties.

jlocke123 said:
"There is a typo in this article.

The line – "the Senator (a Vietnam torture victim himself)"

Should read – "the Senator (a subject of Vietnamese enhanced interrogation techniques himself)"

The least we can ask of CBS is that they make their propaganda more consistent."

Excellent!

re: poopdeck

Fascism need not be the German fascism of the 1930s-40s. I definitely agree that people should know the terms they use. Here are some suggestions for further reading on the applicability of "fascism" to part of our present political landscape.

Friendly Fascism: The New Face of Power in America by Bertram Gross (1982)

Fascism: A Very Short Introduction (Very Short Introductions) by Kevin Passmore (2002)

Facing Fascism: The Threat to American Democracy in the 21st Century
by Jerry Sorlucco

I can't vouch for the last one, but it looks interesting.

The kidnapping, imprisonment and torture of any human being is illegal and immoral.

Whether the captives were named as terrorists, insurgents, rebels, or "The Enemy", we, the American People, accepted what our Government told us. Even though our government was bribing people to turn in "The Enemy", we, the American People,accepted what our government told us. Even though our government formed the Islamic Militant Terrorist Army during the 80's and 90's along with the ISI of Pakistan and the funding by both the Saudi Arabian Government and U.S. Government ("Operation Cyclone"), we, the American People, accepted what our government told us.

The Department of Defense has destroyed all documents dealing with "Able Danger Group" and its relationship with Mohammed Atta. The Justice Department destroyed over 5,000 emails dealing with the firing of U.S. Attorneys. The CIA destroyed over 200 hours of video tape evidence of "Torture". A B52 is loaded with missles armed with Nuclear Warheads and moved from North Dakota to the Middle East Staging Area in Louisiana and the Air Force says, "We punished those involved." Two Air Force men are removed from office because of Nuclear Errors by the Secretary of Defense without an investigation or explanation.

Most importantly Philip Zelikow, Director of the 9/11 Commission, a Neo-Conservative and proponent of Pax Americana, was in contact with the White House prior to preparing the "Official Version" and made sure that World Trade Center #7 was not fully investigated and explained even though there were eyewitnesses and physical evidence that showed it had to have been a demolition with explosives.

Meanwhile, Congress has remained impotent in their responsibilities to investigate.

Five Supreme Justices spoke out and Congress will do nothing.

30% of the American People are happy with George W. Bush which means about 90 million people. Those people are doing very well economically. They do not care that over 3,000 Americans were murdered in 2001. They do not care that over 4,000 Americans have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. They do not care that over 1 million Iraqis have lost their lives. They do not care that over 4 million Iraqis are living in Refugee Camps. They do not care that Guantanmo and Abu Ghraib were torture and "Brainwashing" centers. They are happy with their economic gains and thier "Oil".

When will the 70% of the "We, The American People," get outraged at what has happened to "Our" Nation.

jjpeter: "Scalia, Roberts, Alito and Thomas are the enemies of freedom and I wonder - -
Why do they hate freedom so much?"

These are people entrenched in the religious right way of thinking. If people are free to think and act independently, they are free to turn away from the religious dogma that the RR is so intent on replacing the Constitution with. It's a frightening philosophy. We will all need to be very frightened if McCain should choose the likes of Mike Huckabee as a running mate. In terms of the RR movement, he adheres to one the most hardcore philosophies call Dominionism as does justice scalia. Very distrubing.

jareilly [June 16th, 2008 4:54 pm], that's true, and McCain has never been the political firebrand he's made out to be by the Big Media and the Punditrocracy. In fact, his political 'mentor' and predecessor as Arizona senator, Barry Goldwater, didn't really think much of him. http://writ.findlaw.com/dean/20080502.html

McCain, like Junior Bush, is a Borderline Pathological Personality, who has issues with his accomplished father and grandfather, and tries to hide his sociopathlogy and rage behind a mask.

Contrary to the 'war hero' spin, any pilot who loses four expensive aircraft outside of combat, as kent shaw [June 16th, 2008 1:19 pm] pointed out, is not considered a Hero of Naval Aviation. Probably the only reason he wasn't cut from flying after the first two crashes was due to his Admiral father's influence. Responsibility for an aircraft carrier fire that killed over a hundred men wouldn't put an officer in good stead with the US Navy either. His service evaluation would be poor, at best. Meanwhile, both his father and grandfather were respected and decorated officers, just as Bush's father and grandfather achieved succes in politics and business. McCain will say or do anything to get elected president and outdo his accomplished ancestors, and that's what you are seeing on full display right now. I don't think he even cares any longer what positions he takes, as long as they serve his overwhelming ambition to be president.

I watched a McCain speech on C-Span last week; as they used to say about Nixon, he's crawling with clues as to his BPP disorder. He blinks repeatedly, a well-known 'tell' that someone knows he's lying; he hunches and fidgets as he walks back and forth, often going blank. He also tells jokes that fall flat, often bumbling the punchline, and, after denying that he's running for Bush's third term, then outlines his plan to stay in Iraq, continue tax cuts for the wealthy, keep torturing 'enemy combatants' and pursue every other misbegotten neocon program that has caused the disaster we're living in at the moment. From watching the faces of some in the audience, supposedly his supporters, I don't think they were buying his nonsense either.

Yesterday, I watched an Obama speech from Detroit on C-Span. He was calm, intelligent and articulate, and he talked lucidly about actual programs to change things, not rehashed Bush Talking Points. In debate, he'll make McCain look like a shambling tired old man full of bad ideas. It's even possible the 'Straight-Talker' might drop his veneer and show some of that towering rage his associates have talked about, guaranteeing his defeat. Sen. McNasty has only come this far thanks to his 'base' in the Big Media, but that will only take him so far -- already the cracks are appearing. (Imagine the media furor if Obama had mixed up the Sunnis and the Shia in Iraq four times in one day.)

I'm coming more and more to the opinion that McCain is merely a placeholder, like Bob Dole in 1996 -- a sacrifice intended to lose so that Jeb Bush can run in 2012. The Bush GOP is betting that Obama and the Dems won't be able to solve all of the disasters left behind by Junior so that Jeb can come riding in on his white horse to save the day, and the short-attention-span public will have forgotten by then who caused the mess in the first place.

Reinforcing this theory is that fact that, just prior to the New Hampshire primary, McCain, who was reduced to flying commercial airlines and carrying his own luggage, had a sudden infusion of money to his dying campaign. Why would anyone invest money in a poor candidate running a terrible campaign, detested by much of the GOP base, especially after he came in well out of the top three in the Iowa caucuses? The rumor is the bank that lent McCain the money to keep going had ties to the Bush family, and all of his current senior campaign staff are people associated with the Bushes. (Karl Rove is even acting as McCain's 'unofficial' advisor.)

We'll see, but I think McCain's being set up to lose in a landslide and then 'moderate' Jeb will come in to 'save' the decimated, disorganized Republican Party in 2012. You might say, like Napoleon, he'll pick his crown up out of the gutter.

We can only hope Obama does a good enough job that he'll be able to beat Junior's younger brother when the time comes.

BTW, jlocke123 [June 16th, 2008 1:22 pm], excellent point, LOL!

Re: fascism debate. There are good points being made all around, though of course this term tends to bring out the hyperbolist in a lot of people.
Two small points I would like to make: one is that it is not necessary to point to a particular horrible time in history to know that this is another one.

Secondly, if we are going to be making comparisons to past authoritarian movements, I suggest that we look not to Europe, but to South America. The plutocracies of that region, the marriage of corporate corruption and outright treasury theft with authoritarian suspension of civil liberties are much better analogues for what has been attempted by the Bush/Cheney administration.

"you might be tempted to conclude that the American Democratic Party is a fascist party too"

If you seen my writings on the Democrats, you might realize that this isn't a very effective argument to me. Damning by faint praise might be the comparision. :)

That's unfortunate but since Obama would enslave the whites Mccain is the only vote for the hillbillies. Better to be enslaved by a decrepit insane whitey!

kent shaw June 17th, 2008 8:35 am -- "I" is incorrect. "me" is correct.

Sorry, kent. If we're going to correct each other's grammar here, the verb 'to be' is intransitive.

Turce June 17th, 2008 1:22 am
pontificatinpapa June 16th, 2008 9:13 pm

I would be very hypocrital if I were then to be guilty of the same transgression that I had been critical of.

One should never end a sentence with a preposition.

"The 'he' is a SHE and it was I."

"I" is incorrect. "me" is correct.

"Pontificate all you care to, but never presume to be the all-knowing one, my Dad died 13 years ago, I would allow him to reprimand me, no one in these 53 years has ever attempted and left unscathed by such nonsense."

This is a run-on sentence.

"WAYYYYYY"

There is only one "y" in "way".

" ... you're spelling is atrocious."

I believe that good grammar is as important as accurate spelling. I believe the pot is often on shakey ground when calling the kettle black. I believe that we should all try to avoid ad hominem attacks while discussing the merits of any particular editorial or essay.

Answer: He's a fascist and a phony hero.

I too am a student of history. I also have a degree in English Literature from a major university and the binding of my dictionary is coming apart from frequent use. The United States of American is currently a fascist government.

Poopdeck
heere is a definition of Fascism,"...a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond reach of traditional solutions; 2. belief one's group is the victim, justifying any action without legal or moral limits; 3. need for authority by a natural leader above the law, relying on the superiority of his instincts; 4. right of the chosen people to dominate others without legal or moral restraint; 5. fear of foreign `contamination."[17]
Frightening isn't it

pontificatinpapa June 16th, 2008 9:13 pm
I don't recall the subject of the article that was being commented on, but yesterday I reprimanded a fellow Common Dreams reader for the excessive vulgarities that he used in making his comment.

I would be very hypocrital if I were then to be guilty of the same transgression that I had been critical of.

The 'he' is a SHE and it was I. Now in your same entitled, antithesis of intellectual use of words you do the same inane thing. YOU reprimanded me? Oh my, I am going to have to forward this one along with the others to everyone that knows me. How dare you? Reprimand? Just who in the real world do you think you may be? Pontificate all you care to, but never presume to be the all-knowing one, my Dad died 13 years ago, I would allow him to reprimand me, no one in these 53 years has ever attempted and left unscathed by such nonsense. This ends now, mind your own business and worry about your disinformation and dis-speak. I will say one thing allowing myself to come WAYYYYYY down to your level, please go over your spelling before you submit or edit, you're spelling is atrocious.

jjpeter June 16th, 2008 2:11 pm

So, what about Habeas Corpus don't they agree with? A corner stone of the Magna Carta and English law for over a 1000 years, all of it laid out specifically in the Bill of Rights, amendments three through 9.

I am gussing jjpeter that your intent was to point out all egregious, treasonous actions they committed at GITMO, because habeas corpus is in Article.I.Section.9. Clause 2 and then of course from the Magna Carta 800 years ago, the 'Great Writ', am I interpreting your post correctly? Thanks.

McCain is not now nor ever was a moderate or a maverick. He is just another sorry old flip-flopper.

McCain is a dimwitted, self-indulgent, reckless, hot-headed carousing playboy who made it through life solely on his family name, sort of like Bush on steroids. Where Bush went AWOL, McCain collaborated; where Bush's recorded "life" begins at 40, McCain's begins after dumping his first wife, the one who waited for him to return from his time in Viet Nam. He is a volatile, treacherous and dangerous man with very little brains or talent.

McCain's overblown reputation as a maverick is largely earned from the brief period after the 2000 "selection" when his anger at Rove/Bush for slandering him during the primaries resulted in his petulantly bucking some of Bush's pals and policies. One can assume he was soon bought off and brought into the party line, so now he is pro-life, pro-tax, pro-war, pro-intolerance, and pro-torture. Even with his few maverick moves, his senate voting record coincides with Bush's desires 95% of the time.

I'd love to think these facts and more make McCain a sure loser in the upcoming election, but for those who think their vote still counts for anything I say don't count your chickens. The Republican-nurtured spectre of an elitist black, muslim, flag-hating, liberal commie lawyer in the White House will scare many into voting for the regular old white guy. And then there's the woman who was interviewed after the California primaries as to her political leanings - "We're moving in the wrong direction. I think this country needs a change. So I'm voting for McCain!" There's no accounting for outright stupidity.

"Good to see the judiciary in America has not been totally corrupted as yet." Darryl June

This is exactly the point of this propaganda piece, to make seem the democracy is alive, the checks and balances functioning. The reality is THE SUPREME COURT has ALLOWED this Fed Gov to operate SO VERY FAR outside of the bounds of the constitution, the whole court and the fed gov needs to be locked up for treason, sedition and mass murder.

What's worse is the federal Judges are MORE corrupt than the military tribunal. In the mil tribunal the government was anticipating fascist leaning thereby facilitous directing of the defense council. What happened was even the prosecutors were blowing the whistle on how corrupt the trials were. Now they're moving the trial to where you, the media consumer, surely will not hear word one about how corrupt the trials are...

No Immunity for the corperate criminals that practice warrantless spying on innocent Americans.

The truth must be told, local communitys are using local phone companys to tap phones, pass information onto local Citizen corp,community watch groups ,IAFF, and other so called cocerned organizations. Its a crock ,they need to be stopped dead in thier tracks. Mccains verizon lobyists buddys need to be run out of town.

Next time , when our elected officials ignore thier oath to
protect the constitution from enemys foriegn and domestic, corporations will dig in and fight.

Let the leagal might of Americas lawyers sue for billions, teach all these bastards that the constituion is not a scrap of paper with meaningless words for them to ignore.That those in power who don't protect our constituion should not be obeyed, especailly Presidents and the executive branch.They are not above the Constitution.

ITS THE LAW OF THE LAND. The constitution defines who and what we are as Americans.

I can tell you first hand , I have been followed and harresed for months by these right wing lunitic fringe groups. Soon as the immunity is dropped , I will file for freedom of information and find out not only why my phones were tapped and by who. Then I will unleash legal hell on all partys involved in the slander of my name and reputation.Not to mention the cointel pro tactics used on me by public servants.Trust me when I tell you they tried to destory me as a person. These pricks did nothing but torture me for 14 months, it still goes on today, I pray I will have my day in court.Thats what keeps me going, I pray that our constitution will be restored as law of the land.

All the money except for lawyers fees and some of my expences will be donated to vetrans of the Iraq war.
Quite frankly , all the law suits filed should donate money to vetrans of Iraq war, this might help congress pass no immunity legislation.

Bornfreemen , American Patriot
We must never forget to stand united and protect the constitution from enemys foriegn and domestic.

CV June -- "Despite mounting evidence, CBS still loves McShame: "invested no small amount of his own treasured (and well-earned) historical capital "…"a good man like McCain"
Corporate Media Bullsh!t, as usual. What's surprising is that they are critical at all."

This story is propaganda from the word go. The long bought and corrupted Supreme Court seeming to impartially weigh the legal limbo of thousands of detainees kidnapped from their place of birth... Makes for very nearly believable democracy theater right? Provides time outside of riots to build space dominance, robot attack jets (UCAV), electro magnetic rail guns... This while the whole of the supreme court has integrity like white bread in a driving rain storm...

poopdeck:
I think the definitive definition was stated by Musolini himself to Time magazine in 1923 when he said "fascism" was just a catchy term refering to the bundle of sticks containing an axe the Romans used to sybolize the authority of the state. He said a better term would be "corporatism." While it is certainly true that some dissenting capitalists were liquidated, it seems the analogy between then and now still holds. Indeed, the six mega-media corporations who put Bush in power and continue to parrot his propaganda also fear him. Many are the times we have heard of the denial of access to reporters who fail to toe the line and these corporatists turn triple summersaults to ensure they remain in the administration's good graces. As long as they play, they get paid. Journalists who don't get the message face carrer suicide and in Iraq may even have been purposly targeted. I agree the republican party is not a nazi organization but I would contend its leadership has been hijacked by fascists in republican clothing.
George was not joking when he stated it would be easier to rule as a dictator. He has displayed a total lack of a sense of humor and I doubt he found one that time. Fascist don't always have to dress up in snappy black uniforms and boots or pray to Thor to promote the corporatist ideal. They have regrouped and reconfigured. Now they wear Armani and pray to Mammon. Ask the million dead in Iraq what they think. Remember... as they climbed into the cattle cars, fascism's
victims just could not believe they were being taken off to be murdered in such a civilised country as Deutschland. Even when a few escaped and returned to warn the others, they were not believed. Hitler did not implement his program overnight...it was gradual and took time, one small step after another. Wait and see.

http://www.secureourborderstoday.com/flawed_Candidate.pdf

A must read for all above.

Perhaps they call him a maverick because they have not realised he is just too punch-drunk to remember his lines. Not that GWB is much of an act to follow.

As long as the mainstream media insists on branding John McCain as a "maverick," let's take a closer look at what that really means:
The origin is from the mid-19th century: from the name of Samuel A. Maverick (1803–70), a Texas engineer and rancher who did not brand his cattle. MAVERICK--noun; stands for an individualist, a nonconformist, a loose cannon, an unorthodox person, an eccentric; a rebel, dissenter, dissident, enfant terrible; informal cowboy.

Yes I guess the media has the definition about right.

I don't recall the subject of the article that was being commented on, but yesterday I reprimanded a fellow Common Dreams reader for the excessive vulgarities that he used in making his comment.

I would be very hypocrital if I were then to be guilty of the same transgression that I had been critical of.

I would find it most difficult to fully detail my total contempt for John McCain and not indulge in the use of expletives that most of you would find objectionable.

Although I have not seen his name on the "VP Short List", it is my hope that Senator McCain selects Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina as his running mate so the entire Republican ticket can share in my total disdain for their thoughts, policies, etc.

There is much speculation that he may yet choose Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, who I had heard McCain offered it to earlier but he turned it down. It wouldn't be the first time a politician changed his mind.

I found it amusing when a couple of weeks ago Lieberman called for censorship of the internet, saying it represented a terrorist threat. Here's the man who was the running mate in 2000 of the man who "invented" the internet, Al Gore.

OF course, he had to run as an Independent in Connecticut in 2006 to hold onto his Senate seat. He was unsuccessful in the Democratic primary and was not the choice of his party because of the fact that he openly supported continuance of the war in Iraq.

I read at the time that Cheney issued an order to the chairman of the RNC that there was to be a "hands off" policy as it pertained to the Republican candidate who opposed him, meaning no support, financial or otherwise. This, in effect, was a little thank you to Lieberman for supporting the Bush/Cheney Iraq policy.

Then, if you wanted to throw in the name of someone else I can't stand on that side of the aisle, we cannot leave out our good friend from Mississippi, Trent Lott. Probably not a safe bet; It would just serve as a reminder to Democrats and Republicans of how he got in hot water with his racial remarks at a Strom Thurmond birthday party.

I didn't really set out to bring up all these unpleasantries, but at least I didn't resort to the use of any profanity.

I don't recall the subject of the article that was being commented on, but yesterday I reprimanded a fellow Common Dreams reader for the excessive vulgarities that he used in making his comment.

I would be very hypocrital if I were then to be guilty of the same transgression that I had been critical of.

I would find it most difficult to fully detail my total contempt for John McCain and not indulge in the use of expletives that most of you would find objectionable.

Although I have not seen his name on the "VP Short List", it is my hope that Senator McCain selects Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina as his running mate so the entire Republican ticket can share in my total disdain for their thoughts, policies, etc.

There is much speculation that he may yet choose Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, who I had heard McCain offered it to earlier but he turned it down. It wouldn't be the first time a politician changed his mind.

I found it amusing when a couple of weeks ago Lieberman called for censorship of the internet, saying it represented a terrorist threat. Here's the man who was the running mate in 2000 of the man who "invented" the internet, Al Gore.

OF course, he had to run as an Independent in Connecticut in 2006 to hold onto his Senate seat. He was unsuccessful in the Democratic primary and was not the choice of his party because of the fact that he openly supported continuance of the war in Iraq.

I read at the time that Cheney issued an order to the chairman of the RNC that there was to be a "hands off" policy as it pertained to the Republican candidate who opposed him, meaning no support, financial or otherwise. This, in effect, was a little thank you to Lieberman for supporting the Bush/Cheney Iraq policy.

Then, if you wanted to throw in the name of someone else I can't stand on that side of the aisle, we cannot leave out our good friend from Mississippi, Trent Lott. Probably not a safe bet; It would just serve as a reminder to Democrats and Republicans of how he got in hot water with his racial remarks at a Strom Thurmond birthday party.

I didn't really set out to bring up all these unpleasantries, but at least I didn't resort to the use of any profanity.

I do not see that one can blame the majority of Americans who, in 2003, believed that the Twin Towers destruction was the work of the Iraqis. What one can blame them for, and what shows their terrible collective weakness of character so clearly for the first time during the Bush period, is that this settled the matter. With sheepish submissiveness the American people accepted that, as a result of the destruction, each one of them lost what little personal freedom and dignity was guaranteed by the constitution; as though it followed as a necessary consequence. If the Iraqis had destroyed Twin Towers, it was perfectly in order that the Government took 'decisive measures'!

Sorry, I misspoke. This is the original version from the book, written in 1939 but not published until 1999 when he died, by Sebastian Haffner entitled Defying Hitler:

"… I do not see that one can blame the majority of Germans who, in 1933, believed that the Reichstag fire was the work of the Communists. What one can blame them for, and what shows their terrible collective weakness of character so clearly for the first time during the Nazi period, is that this settled the matter. With sheepish submissiveness the German people accepted that, as a result of the fire, each one of them lost what little personal freedom and dignity was guaranteed by the constitution; as though it followed as a necessary consequence. If the Communists had burned down the Reichstag, it was perfectly in order that the Government took 'decisive measures'!"

I'm not as sure as the author that McCain is
a good man. He seems awfully limited to military chessboard thinking and grandfatherly
tone. Does he understand habeas corpus? Or
the economy? Or torture, even? He used to.

This guy is determined to be going down hill
when he hits the grave.

As he lets loose his elitist, authoritarian gut instincts during the campaign, McBane's brown shirted vision of America and the world will get distinctly fascist-browner -- for all to see.
A tragically big chunk of voters will like what they see in McBane and will no doubt vote for him. But my gut instinct tells me the that balance of voters, who've already seen too much of the same brownshit in Bush, will reject Bush's doppleganger.

Such a scenario brings us to Obama, whose election -- assuming Obama's candidacy is not an outright ploy-- will at best provide only a critically short breather time in which progressive forces can devise strategies that begin to create decisive public momentum toward fundamental reform of our corrupt system.

None of this initial rescue motion is impossible (again, assuming Obama is half-way real and elected); but it will predictably fail if doctrinnaire progressives then immediately, unrealistically insist on reforming every error in human psychology and in America's political institutions -- overnight.

Given the near death condition our governing apparatus has come to, I think it would be enough at this fail-safe point to first, just decisively halt the fascist momentum forward, and from there begin a step-by-step restoration of government by, for, and of the people.

Will the election of Obama truly enable this 'breather,' and would it be used wisely by progressives? No one can say for sure.
But two things seem certain to me: [1] A real reformer like Nader will not, and can not now, ever be elected within this corrupt system, and [2], under McBane's full fledged march into fascism, any peaceful reform of the system will quickly become impossible, leaving violent revolution for sane, democracy-loving people the only remaining option.

How many of us, I wonder, are really willing to jump into this final, physical, horrendous fight against our government, when there is still a reasonable modicum of hope to avoid it?

People ask us WHY we emigrated to Canada when we were doing just fine in the U.S. Our response is

a) lack of habeus corpus (and the barons accosted a king at Runnymeade over THAT one) and

b) freedom from religion.

At least a) is being addressed -- and in Bush country, ANYBODY can be plucked up and tossed into jail so habeus corpus is IMPORTANT.

What will the administration do now? Lock up the Judges like Pakistan did?
Good to see the judiciary in America has not been totally corrupted as yet.

Dear Samson. Thanks for your stimulating discussion on fascism. Here are the key sections from "Vichy France".

"Strictly speaking, as an ideal type, fascism is a mass anti-liberal, anticommunist movement, radical in its willingness to employ force and in its contempt for the upper-class values of the time, sharply distinct not only from its enemies on the left but also from its rivals on the right, traditional conservatives."
"Where conservatives want social structure to be hierarchical, fascist mass rallies in uniform colored shirts display a leveling egalitarianism before the leader. Economically fascists make their appeal to the solitary 'common man' against the organized 'interests' of society from bankers and landlords to trade unions. (Later the author points out that Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco accepted support from bankers, etc. to come to power but once in power they did not allow bankers to have any say in ruling. Opposition of a banker landed him in a concentration camp together with communists, etc.). Where conservatives show a distaste for mass participation and prefer government by a few established families, fascists-children of the era of mass politics instead of survivors of elitist nineteenth-century Europe-attempt to marshal mass affirmations. Fascists often prefer a Dyonysiac pagan vigor to the social bulwark of churches."
One key issue is the attitude towards established churches. Fascists need to destroy or neutralize these to grab and hold on to power. Power-sharing is a despicable concept in fascism.
There is absolutely no operative kinship between the current American Republican Party and the German National Socialist Workers Party and the Italian Fascist movements. I wrote, indeed, about the GOP and McCain. There is no rational justification to call them fascists. In fact that would be dangerously counter-productive as it would steer our concerns away from the real fascists among us. When you read the description by Robert Paxton, you might be tempted to conclude that the American Democratic Party is a fascist party too: sharply distinct not only from their enemies on the left but also from their rivals on the right, traditional conservatives; mass rallies with a leveling egalitarianism towards the leader; economic appeal to the common man; vigor. Hey, we've got to be cautious with what we call fascists! It may come back to confirm what Pogo once said: "we have met the fascists; they are us!"

Poopdeck: W was appointed in 2000. Read the decision. Nobody had been elected, but W was referred to as "the duly elected" who needed the protection of the Supreme Court. O'Connor, J made that clear, post decidendum

McCain is obviously running for president--of the Republican Party....Or, is he privy to something, a promise, an act, a miscount, to be played out in early November?

It is simple. One of the most enlightening benefits of the bushes adminstrations is the way the US military lies and covers-up. It is obvious the entire mccain war hero fiasco was a staged event which never happened. Just like the military lied and covered up for both bushes 41 and 43...

I think that we have real problems here in the UK, and over there in the US with our elected politicians. It seems as though they have forgotten Habeas Corpus and all that it stands for.
The truth is, that it stands in the way of all that they desire!!

Probably the same reason over 100 Democrats joined with Republicans to enact it. Wake up, lad.

Mouse:

For more McCain Vietnam stories, check out Counterpunch.

President John McCain, VP Carly Fiorina, Supreme Court Justice Joseph Lieberman...or maybe National Security Advisor Lieberman.

It could happen.

Guys like John McCain have never understood the meaning of political freedom. Their world is just naturally run by "the big boys", the powerful elites with the "long view". McCain's always made a living running errands for the big boys. He has to oppose anything that limits their prerogatives.

I think it is fairly obvious that McCain has been running for President for decades. This whole "maverick" thing is just a contrivance, a branding exercise, like "compassionate conservative". If he has tied himself in knots as a result, well, no big surprise there. The depressing thing is the huge number of simpletons in the MSM and the general population who actually believe that shameless and incoherent pandering = political courage.

McBush has revealed his extremist true colors, as the recent NY Times revelation of a position paper about the Vietnam War he wrote years ago shows. If Obama hammers at McBush not only as Bush redux, but as an extremist in domestic and foreign policies, McBush won't be able to hide behind his mask of "moderate maverick" anymore.

Blessings and thanks to the wisdom of the Founding Fathers (& Mothers!) of this nation for designing and executing an unambiguous document which codifies into law the great concept of liberty. We, your progeny, cherish your wisdom and will fight against any and all darkness to keep hope and freedom alive. Thank you, endlessly, thank you.

kent shaw - thanks for those illuminating facts which i had, unsurprisingly, not heard anywhere before.

Adele, I meant to inform that you stated , American, NO, which is exactly correct, sorry if it looks like I inferred the opposite.

As AdeleTheCzech pointed out yesterday re; habeas corpus as American creation, so correct. The 'Great Writ', 800 years old instituted by the Magna Carta. We have that point, we have Aricle.I.Section.9.Clause 2 and the Geneva Convention, Section VI, Chapter III - Judicial Proceedings(POW's), Article 99, allo these should have protected these POW's, 97% innocent but instead not just men, there are women, children and mentally impaired persons there. So I could care less that the 4 Supremes that dissented are mad, poor kids, it was overturned because 5 Supremes agreed, about time. The pigs like McInsane, Gingrich, every GOP member around can just wind up in a foreign jail as ICE has been doing as they profile American citizens they say appear to be Hispanic or Latino in Mexican prisons. So McInsane was a POW in Vietnam, he spilled his guts and as he did he was broadcast live on Vietnamese radio, he can call it whatever he chooses but it wasn't GITMO or Abu Ghraib.

RE:
"poopdeck June 16th, 2008 12:57 pm
I and my family have suffered greatly from Nazi fascism during WW 2. I beg all of you who throw the term "fascist" around as if it is a frisbee to study what fascism really was and discover that the GOP, despicable as it is, is not a fascist movement nor is Senator McCain a fascist "Fuehrer". When you misuse "fascist", "Hitler","Nazi" that is a clear sign that you have left rational analysis."

HUH?!
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!

You must not be capable of rational analysis.

This situation we seemt o be stuck in this country, this so-called conservative revolution, is actually the right-wing rise of American fascism.

Short List-
1. Congress and Senate voting the interests of corporate Amerikkka over its citizens' interests
2. Patriot Act removed illegalities of forced entry police search and seizure of private property
3. Indefinate detention without trials of Gitmo detainees
4. Legislating torture as a means of entrapment and to coerce false confessions
5. Removal of the basic human right of habeus corpus
6. Removal of the right to a fair trial in a reasonable amount of time and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty

Fascism definition:

"
fas·cism Audio Help /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fash-iz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3. (initial capital letter) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1915–20; < It fascismo, equiv. to fasc(io) bundle, political group (see fasces) + -ismo -ism]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

"

McCain's criticism of the Supreme Court's decision upholding the right of habeas corpus is part of an overall Republican strategy of playing upon people's fear of terrorists in order to win votes. This is a theme that they have used to their advantage on many previous occasions, but their luck with it is about to run out. Obama is derelict in not responding with a full-throated defense of the Court as well as the Constitutional protections that are afforded to everyone without exception. Once these rights are denied to anyone, they may be denied to everyone.

John McCain is a soulless war pig

George W Bush was appointed to the presidency in 2000

As JM reacts badly to gentle jibes about his thinning hair, is this story such a surprise?

Perhaps everyone is reading far too much into what this insecure Senator says, and should listen less?

The point Richard Condon was trying to make in his novel "The Manchurian Candidate" was that the far left and the far right were one and the same. In our case, Nazis, Communists and reactionary Republicans of the Bush/Cheney kind are, in fact, one and the same. George Wanker Bush is our Manchurian Candidate. But who, through a technique "part light induced, part drug induced" set this traitor up to finish off the United States?

To: Poopdeck

Dear Spike. Nobody becomes "appointed" president I hope because I intend to vote in November.

I think you are incorrect Bush was appointed president by Supreme court in 2000. Against the wishes of popular voters. How can the supreme court decide the will of the people. At least not in a true democracy.

Maverick of the Living Dead is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

Because he hates America (the constitution) and cannot be trusted to fulfill any presidential oath to uphold and defend same.

Ever seen "the Manchurian Candidate"?

The liberty-haters love to say: "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." If "our" government had nothing to hide, they would not so desperately fear open examination of "the facts of the case."

Cheney/Bush's final move to avoid all laws: award Halliburton a no-bid contract for the first US prison colony on the Moon, where, they will say, US courts have no jurisdiction.

Lets see; the four descenting votes were from the right wing justices, all claiming to be 'STRICT CONSTUTIONALISTS'.

In other words, Judges who don't try and reinterprept the constitution, but adhere to its "literal sense".

So, what about Habeas Corpus don't they agree with? A corner stone of the Magna Carta and English law for over a 1000 years, all of it laid out specifically in the Bill of Rights, amendments three through 9.

Scalia, Roberts, Alito and Thomas are the enemies of freedom and I wonder - -

Why do they hate freedom so much?

PRESS RELEASE: Arizona senator John Sidney McCain, Republican candidate for President of the United States, formally announced today that he has changed his name to George Anheuser Busch. The action was taken to show his love, respect and reverence for George Wanker Bush, 43rd president of the United States. The former Mr. McCain said he chose the new name because his wife owns the largest Anheuser Busch beer distributorship in the nation and without her money he would now be nothing more than a retired insurance agent living in Virginia, hanging out at the Bull Run Bar with his best friend George Macaca Bush (formerly Allen).

The wikipedia link above has a great quote...

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power."
--Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1942

Remember, the Republican fundraiser Grover Norquists has described his goal as 'shrinking government to the point where he could drown it in a bathtub.'

Those are the sorts of comparisons that we should not refrain from discussing. But we do need to be careful about just throwing the terms around carelessly.

McCain has already lost. Follow the corporate money. It always goes with the winner and tells you who the winner is going to be. The corporate money moved early to the Democrats. Before the Feb primaries, it was splitting between Hillary and Obama. But even this it was clear that the corporate money had shifted from the Republicans to the Democrats. If you remember, late last year McCain had to really retool and revise his campaign because all of his projected budgets were based on Bush-like levels of raking in corporate money and he found out it just wasn't there for him.

Since the Feb primaries, the corporate money largely abandoned Hillary and moved strongly behind Obama.

Unless there's a popular uprising of voters refusing to accept the corporate-chosen candidate, Obama's the next President. Follow the money.

poopdeck - Not only should NOT avoid using those terms, we should use them more. The neocons actions may not be the same as fascists and nazis in WW2, but their mindset is the same.

Ask yourself...what would America "look like" if Hitler and Moussilini "occurred" in the year 2000, in America itself, instead of in the 30's and 40's in Germany/Italy? My guess would be it'd be alot like what it is today. The utter brutality would probably be missing what with modern media and internet, but the actions would be similar to what we're seeing with the neocons.

Unfortunately, the conservative movement has been very skillful is using those same terms, to discredit their use altogether. And they want those terms discredited because they know full well that THEY in fact are the new fascists and nazis. What better disguise than to eliminate the value of the terms. See, you and I read Orwell's 1984 as a warning...they read it as a guidebook.

Samson @ 1:14pm, well-said.

poopdeck, the use of the term "fascism" is entirely appropriate in view of the corporate takeover of the machinery of government. cheney and the fascists of the last century differ only in degree, not in their fundamental natures.

as to mccain's being a "good man," that's true in the same sense that tim russert was a "good journalist."

The money that made Bush President in the first place made McCain an offer he couldn't refuse. He could either abandon his more 'maverick' positions or he could abandon any hope of becoming President.

"How about the Courts decision to assign Blacks 3/4 of a white man in worth?"

Technically, I don't think that was the Courts. Instead, its written directly into the US Constitution in how they apportion representatives based on population.

Dear poopdeck,

I'm sorry, but I've spent most of my life learning and studying history. And there are a number of simularities between the current American Republican Party and the German National Socialist Workers Party and the Italian Fascist movements.

I do try to be careful about using those terms, as they are very loaded terms and most people do not know the details of the history. But on the other hand I would also say that such comparisons should not be completely out of bounds.

The Italian Fascist movement defined itself as putting the state in the service of corporations. And both the German and Italian movements were right-wing political movements. They are not something separate and distinct from right-wing politics, instead both in many ways are an expansion and continuation of right-wing politics.

In both cases, the movement started out as a minor branch of right-wing politics, but was then adopted and endorsed by the more main-stream right-wing movements of 'conservatism' (right-wing landed gentry) and the 'industrialists'.

The goals of economic policies in these cases are very similar to today's Republicans. Both are willing to completely dismiss any concerns of the workers in order to maximize corporate profits. And the foreign policies are very similar as well. If you read W. Shirer's Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich and its description of the years of the invasions of the Rhineland, Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland, you'll be shocked by how Hitler's 'negotiation' technique is almost identical to Bush's.

And the combination of using foreign enemies and a very aggressive foreign policy of invading countries that are not an immediate threat to build support for domestic politics are very similar.

What is different is that we have not seen open murders of political opponents in the US. Although I have my doubts about at least one plane crash. There's been nothing like Krystalnacht (probably mis-spelled). And so far we haven't seen any rounding up and putting into camps of political opposition (although again some particular instances might look a lot like people are targeted for political beliefs). And we certainly have not seen anything like the Final Solution of the Jewish problem. Even though the US military's approach to mass round-ups of any opposition in the countries they've conquered bares some eiry comparisons.

One key thing is to define exactly when you are talking about. This is a twenty year history of the rise of these movements immediately following the end of WWI to their overthrow at the end of WWII. So, while we might not be at the Final Solution stage of say 1943, that doesn't mean that there aren't some very valid comparisions between what we are seeing in the US today with earlier stages of what happened in both Italy and Germany.

There is a typo in this article.

The line – "the Senator (a Vietnam torture victim himself)"

Should read – "the Senator (a subject of Vietnamese enhanced interrogation techniques himself)"

The least we can ask of CBS is that they make their propaganda more consistent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

"one of the worst decisions in the history of this country." (?)
Really? How about the Courts decision to assign Blacks 3/4 of a white man in worth? How about the Courts decision to give corporations the same rights of free speech as individuals? How about the Courts decision to get into the election fray of 2000 and virtually assure Bush of the election? McCain's brain was fried in his stint at the Hanoi Hilton. He used to speak in a semi-rational manner but now I expect him to choose Cheney as his running mate.

"After first insisting that federal law clearly and unambiguously outlaw "torture," McCain suddenly caved to White House pressure on the MCA, allowing the Administration to insert into the law a clause that effectively allows (and, indeed, legally buttresses the efforts of) the executive branch to implement torture as a means of interrogation."

George Bush may have reminded McCain that he crashed for airplanes before finally being hit over North Vietnam in a fifth aircraft. He may have reminded McCain that he graduated almost at the bottom of his class at Annapolis. Perhaps he reminded McCain that he was responsible for the fire on the Forrestal that killed something like 137 men, after which he was immediately transferred to a different carrier group. He "wet started" his jet which caused a huge burst of flame against the plane immediately behind. This "cooked off" one of that jet's rockets which hit McCain's plane in turn setting off ordnance explosions and fire. Or maybe he reminded McCain of his 22 hours or less total combat duty. Maybe he mentioned McCain's COLLABORATION with the enemy. And finally, maybe he suggested to McCain that, although so far the MSM has ignored McCain's dodgy history, that perhaps it was nearing time for the executive branch to "remind" the press of these issues.

He scorns this ruling because he hates America!

Hey, the truth is that these concepts are fundamental to the notion of what America was meant to be. The founders had just fought a long and nasty revolution to try to get rid of the concept of an over-powerful executive who could do what ever he wanted in the name of 'security'.

This is the key concept of America. That people have rights, and that the government is limited by those rights and must respect those rights.

Thus, it can truly be said of McCain and most of the Republicans today that they really do 'hate America'. Personally, I think they should be told that if they don't like America, then they are free to leave. Because I'm going to stand and fight for an America that really is a land of free people and which really is a government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Remember, the "Supremes" appointed der Bush and disenfranchised the entire American electorate. One man in black appointed der Bush and initiated eight years of horror, greed, mal and misfeasance, murder, poverty for the millions and inconcievable wealth for the Oligarchy.

Now we have another hairline decision to bring a modicum of civil rights back into our legal system. One more fascist appointee to the SCOTUS and there will never be a chance to put our Constitution and Bill of Rights intact and functioning, back in the Halls of Government.

I would love to see a Populist candidate dedicated to bringing the Constitution back, but if we have to have one of the alleged two parties in charge, I think I'd rather see an Obama/Kucinich ticket. Kucinich would be a strong force in helping Obama keep on track and, he would be excellent assassination insurance as Kucinich would be even more undesirable as President than Obama to the type of fascist thugs that have no hesitation about assassination, whether character or physical.

McCain is senile. The mind is going...from drunk and stones Prez to Senile? Obama, who is a constitutional lawyer/teacher for me!

It's utterly terrifying that John McCain has actually been nominated for president by one of America's major parties. What has happened in our nation since Bush and Cheney stole the election in 2000 could only have been the story line of a bad novel thirty-five years ago. In the 1970s we thought Nixon was a fascist. Today, Nixon would be considered a moderate.

And don't think McCain has a "slim chance of being appointed", or elected "in November" Spike. For years the media has not let the facts get in the way of their great story about McCain being the greatest maverick, allegedly bucking the system. Elections and appointments are not won based on facts, the STORY wins out every time.

I and my family have suffered greatly from Nazi fascism during WW 2. I beg all of you who throw the term "fascist" around as if it is a frisbee to study what fascism really was and discover that the GOP, despicable as it is, is not a fascist movement nor is Senator McCain a fascist "Fuehrer". When you misuse "fascist", "Hitler","Nazi" that is a clear sign that you have left rational analysis.

Dear Spike. Nobody becomes "appointed" president I hope because I intend to vote in November.

Spike said: ..."This is why the current regime of lice at the head of our government,..."

That is one of the wittiest, most accurate, out-of-control, lines I have heard since the facists took over.

I LOVE IT!!!
You go.
Nuff said :)

Fascism has always had tremendous appeal to those for whom money can not flow fast enough out of our pockets and into theirs. The thought of having to stop and consider the plight of the people who struggle to create the wealth that the rich luxuriate in, is not something that McCain or any of the other Neocons waste much time with.

After the Democrats get done impeaching Cheney and Bush, they ought to impeach those four justices for lying about their loyalty to our country and the Constitution. That is if they aren't in fact on the same side as McCain and Bush.

Despite mounting evidence, CBS still loves McShame: "invested no small amount of his own treasured (and well-earned) historical capital "..."a good man like McCain"
Corporate Media Bullsh!t, as usual. What's surprising is that they are critical at all.

Obama and McCain are saying things to get elected. The question is, will I trust someone that says things just to get elected? The answer is no in both cases.

Aw, he's just trying to paint himself as an extreme version of the grumpy old geezer who had to walk 40 miles to school in the driving snow and bare feet.

"What are you complaining about, hippie? Why when I was your age, I'd undergo 5 hours of waterboarding before breakfast, and breakfast was usually whatever portion of a live rat I could pry from the mouths of the hungry pirhannas that shared my tank with me. And I was only getting off so easy because I was a true hero. Stop being such a liberal."

Because they can't tell the difference between a real war with battlefields and an enemy with uniforms that easily identify them as such. The war on Terror, where ever it is waged, inevitably has "collateral" damage at an unacceptable rate, and jailing of innocents, also at an unacceptable rate. The practice of rounding up people in non-combatant zones, other countries, and based on rewards and unsubstantiated claims by others who are settling scores, or ridding themselves of a competitor is so misguided and stupid that such a decision is indeed needed.

As usual the Bush-Cheney administration, McCain and their Republican comrades miss this point and can't see that they have abused the authority and a basic premise of American Justice of presumed innocence. When you have an enemy that is clearly identifiable, perhaps they have an position. But t they have clearly maimed and destroyed far too many innocents to allow them the luxury of decision making and such a "real" war-time power. This is what makes them war criminals- their distain for justice and presumed authority to do what ever it takes.

McCain = More of the same

In addition he wants never-ending war and war profiteering at our expense --- and privatization of Social Security to name a couple of things.

Why Does GOP Candidate Scorn Supreme Court's Affirmation Of Right Of Habeas Corpus?
____________________________________

Because he's an ambition-crazed, power-addicted imbecile.

The victim becomes the perpetrator once again.

Although McCain's chances of being appointed to the presidency are slim; he still would like to have the ability to jail everyone, whenever, for whatever. This is why the current regime of lice at the head of our government, and all those who support, them need to impeached; and, then jailed(with their habeus corpus rights intact)to await trial for treason and misprison of murder.

The frightening thing is that four justices voted with Bush and McCain.