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US Seeking 58 Bases in Iraq, Shiite Lawmakers Say
BAGHDAD - Iraqi lawmakers say the United States is demanding 58 bases as part of a proposed "status of forces" agreement that will allow U.S. troops to remain in the country indefinitely.
Leading members of the two ruling Shiite parties said in a series of interviews the Iraqi government rejected this proposal along with another U.S. demand that would have effectively handed over to the United States the power to determine if a hostile act from another country is aggression against Iraq. Lawmakers said they fear this power would drag Iraq into a war between the United States and Iran.
"The points that were put forth by the Americans were more abominable than the occupation," said Jalal al Din al Saghir, a leading lawmaker from the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq. "We were occupied by order of the Security Council," he said, referring to the 2004 Resolution mandating a U.S. military occupation in Iraq at the head of an international coalition. "But now we are being asked to sign for our own occupation. That is why we have absolutely refused all that we have seen so far."
Other conditions sought by the United States include control over Iraqi air space up to 30,000 feet and immunity from prosecution for U.S. troops and private military contractors. The agreement would run indefinitely but be subject to cancellation with two years notice from either side, lawmakers said.
"It would impair Iraqi sovereignty," said Ali al Adeeb a leading member of Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki's Dawa party of the proposed accord. "The Americans insist so far that is they who define what is an aggression on Iraq and what is democracy inside Iraq... if we come under aggression we should define it and ask for help."
Both Saghir and Adeeb said that the Iraqi government rejected the terms as unacceptable. They said the government wants a U.S. presence and a U.S. security guarantee but also wants to control security within the country, stop indefinite detentions of Iraqis by U.S. forces and have a say in U.S. forces' conduct in Iraq.
The 58 bases would represent an expansion of the U.S. presence here. Currently, the United States operates out of about 30 major bases, not including smaller facilities such as combat outposts, according to a U.S. military map.
" Is there sovereignty for Iraq - or isn't there? If it is left to them, they would ask for immunity even for the American dogs," Saghir said. "We have given Bush our views - some new ideas and I find that there is a certain harmony between his thoughts and ours. And he promised to tell the negotiators to change their methods."
Maliki returned Monday from his second visit to Iran, whose Islamic rulers are adamantly opposed to the accord. Iran's Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamanei said following meetings with Maliki that we have "no doubt that the Americans' dreams will not come true."
Hoshyar Zebari, the Iraqi foreign minister, criticized the lawmakers for poisoning the public discussion before an agreement is concluded. He said U.S. officials had been flexible in the talks, as well as "frank and honest since the beginning."
"This is an ongoing process," Zebari said. "There is no agreement yet. Proposals have been modified, they have been changed and altered. We don't have a final text yet for them to be judgmental."
Zebari, who said a negotiating session was held with U.S. officials on the new accord Monday, said any agreement will be submitted to the Iraqi parliament for approval. Leaders in the U.S. Congress have also demanded a say in the agreement, but the Bush administration says it is planning to make this an executive accord not subject to Senate ratification.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain didn't respond for requests for comment, but the presumptive Democratic nominee, Barack Obama, said through a spokesman that he believes the Bush administration must submit the agreement to Congress and that it should make "absolutely clear" that the United States will not maintain permanent bases in Iraq.
Lee Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana, said he had not heard of a plan to seek 50 or more bases in Iraq, and that if it is the case, Congress is likely to challenge the idea. "Congress would have a lot of questions, and the president should be very careful in negotiating," Hamilton, who now directs the Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars, told McClatchy.
The top U.S. Embassy spokesman in Iraq rejected the latest Iraqi criticism.
"Look, there is going to be no occupation," said U.S. spokesman Adam Ereli. "Now it's perfectly understandable that there are those that are following this closely in Iraq who have concerns about what this means for Iraqi sovereignty and independence. We understand that and we appreciate that and that's why nothing is going to be rammed down anybody's throat.
"It's kind of like a forced marriage. It just doesn't work. They either want you or they don't want you. You can't use coercion to get them to like you," he added.
U.S. officials in Baghdad say they are determined to complete the accord by July 31 so that parliamentary deliberations can be completed before the Dec. 31 expiration of the UN mandate.
The agreement will not specify how many troops or where they will be deployed, said a U.S. official who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity of the subject, but the agreement will detail the legal framework under which U.S. troops will operate. The U.S. official said that in the absence of a UN resolution authorizing the use of force, "there have to be terms that are in place. That's the reality that we're trying to accommodate."
Iraqis are determined to get their nation removed from the purview of the U.N. Security Council under Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter, which allows the international body to declare a country a threat to international peace, a step the U.N. took after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. Iraqi officials say that designation clearly is no longer appropriate.
But even on that basic request, the U.S. has not promised to support Iraq, Saghir said, and is insteadn withholding that support as a pressure point in negotiations.
U.S. demands "conflict with our sovereignty and we refuse them," said Hassan Sneid, a member of the Dawa party and a lawmaker on the security committee in the parliament. "I don't expect these negotiations will be done by the exact date. The Americans want so many things and the fact is we want different things."
"If we had to choose one or the other, an extension of the mandate or this agreement, we would probably choose the extension," Saghir said. "It is possible that in December we will send a letter the UN informing them that Iraq no longer needs foreign forces to control its internal security. As for external defense, we are still not ready."
Margaret Talev in Washington contributed.
© McClatchy Newspapers 2008



44 Comments so far
Show AllHow could the Al-Maliki government even consider such an insult to the people of Iraq, I find it very hard to understand. What Iraq sovereignty are they talking about ? In every occupation that we have seen in all of hstory, the people are always plagued with traitors, and that obese what's his name Iraq foreign minister still has the insanity to defend the USA.
What the Americans have done in Iraq is not fit for discussion; only animals behave in this manner, there is not a drop of humanity in the Americans.
Whether it's 5 bases or 50 or 500 is completely irrelevant to the central issue which is the question of Iraq's right to exist as a sovereign nation.
In that context, the bases, in and of themselves, are much less important than certain other provisions of the proposed "agreement" that would, in effect, deny Iraq's sovereignty entirely. Notable amongst these is the provision that would permit the U.S. to use Iraq as a base to strike, from within Iraqi territory, any country it considers a threat to U.S. national security. And we all know, of course, that U.S. security includes (if it is not actually limited to) Israel's interests in the region.
Not surprisingly, Iran is not greatly reassured by Al-Maliki's promise that the U.S. wont use Iraq as a base for attacking that country. But, even if one leaves that aside, the proposal itself constitutes an unheard of affront to the entire concept of soverign rights. Just try to imagine the U.S. reaction, for example, to any such agreement between a Latin American nation and the USSR while it was still the "evil empire".
Lee Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana, said he had not heard of a plan to seek 50 or more bases in Iraq, and that if it is the case, Congress is likely to challenge the idea.
This line made me laugh. It's long past the time that the congress should have challenged this f-ing fiasco. 7 years too late.
lee hamilton is a shinning example of why i left the dems. he's for asking tuff questions to bush about a permanent occupying force in a sovereign nation. wow what courage.
Smart move by Obama, passing off the opportunity to shoot down this obscenity to the Senate which will never approve such a treaty (and it is a treaty, not an "alliance").
jj
The big plan is coming together. Occupy Iraq indefinitely and start a war with Iran.
Imagine if Russia or some other country came over here and demanded that they wanted to build 58 bases. Hell, try to imagine what the initial and annual cost would be for that many bases in Iraq. Halliburton would have a field day, like they're having now.
Not one base should be built in Iraq.
"Look, there is going to be no occupation," said U.S. spokesman Adam Ereli.
---speaking from an undisclosed location deep down a rabbit hole.
According to the report, there are already 30 "major bases" in Iraq-- I don't know if that includes the citadel disguised as an "embassy".
"Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq."
Does this just mean "build any MORE" permanent bases?
I've also read somewhere that if a minimal number of Iraqi troops are assigned to the bases, that the bases can legally be considered Iraqi, not American-- even if the bases are otherwise occupied by US military personnel conducting US military affairs.
The US government is to military bases what the Reich of Zion is to illegal settlements; once they're built and occupied, it's a fait accompli that is too entrenched to dislodge.
Kudos to the Iraqi lawmakers who realize quite clearly what a lot of the American public does not: Dubya, Cheney, & Co. want to Iraq into a modern version of India under the British East India Company. Seeing as how that turned into a complete mess that the British taxpayer was forced to subsidize and benefited only a small group of elite types, to say nothing of the misery inflicted upon the Indians, this perverted redux of history can not be allowed to move forward. That there is the example of history merely adds an element of "what are they thinking?"
yap.chongyee,
Iraq knows Obama wants our congress to have to ratify it because it is a treaty and Obama knows the constitution...(What a change) and it looks like Iraq which does not need another War anymore than Iran which is friendly with Iraq, will not ratify it... Everyone is waiting for Bush to leave... If Bush declares this anyway, Iraq and the world will ignore it... even Israel now knows they must wait.
Bush, if he was smart would give Iraq what it wants just to help McSame.
Things are gettin exciting again...Congress is in a Watergate mode and Dennis just brought impeachment back to keep the pressure on.
We got a ways to go yet but I can feel a change is gonna come.
We Americans know when we are gettin Fleeced... War and the economy has been linked like an infamous Communist once said "Everything is connected."
Now lets hear from the Gloomy Doomers.
http://chun.afterdowningstreet.org/amomentoftruth.pdf
Wow willybill,
Thanks for the new articles of impeachment.... Dennis sure knows his stuff!
I do not understand this aspect of foreign policy. Why does the U.S. government plead and negotiate with the people it has conquered? The comparisons of George Bush Inc. with the Third Reich that are so illuminating of both domestic and international behaviour of the U.S. break down completely when the nuclear armed war president is stymied by a toy government that he himself created.
C'mon, Bush. Fifty-eight bases are barely enough to safeguard the world's third richest oilfield. Get with the program, roll out the nukes.
Sure, sure, willy and Jim. Congress won't ratify a treaty that gives the U.S. unfettered military options in a strategic Middle Eastern location. But they will move forward with Kucinich's articles of impeachment.
Enjoy your technicolor dreams!
Jim Glover June 10th, 2008 2:30 pm DK..By far, the bravest man in the whole darn government. These articles are a work of art. he stood there for what I guess was four hours. I caught only the last two and at the beginning of that time, he was up to article 20. Sometimes I see him as America's Gandhi! He deserves the highest respect and admiration.
Okay, here is what will happen--public outrage over 58 bases to which the current establishment both Rep and Dem will reluctantly conceed is a bit much, and then suggest, viola!, maybe just 16 bases would be "needed" (which is all they really wanted in the first place). Thesis + counterthesis = synthesis as America and the world are screwed again.
As we all hope that Obama will be elected President and not McCain, let us take a closer look at who the big O is choosing for his advisors and ultimately his cabinet. My bet is that there will be as many DLC members as Bushco has Neocon trolls from the AEI and Federalist Society.
58 bases in a country the size of California? Will they leave anything for the farmers to grow a little food to keep the people from starving, or will they be forced to buy what they need from KBR? We may as well simply make both Iraq and Israel states. It would cost us less in the long run.
willybill June 10th, 2008 2:02 pm thanks for that link. Kucinich has prepared a really impressive document of thirty-five charges against Bush that take three pages to list and another sixty-two pages to amplify. He covers a lot of ground and the charges show Bush to be completely subversive in every aspect of government, not only in the "war on terror" and domestic contempt of liberties.
I took the trouble to write Kucinich a thank-you by email, and I hope he presses on. It's not too late to impeach Bush, and the reason for this is that impeachment serves the purpose not only of halting Bush's crimes and bringing him to justice, but even more importantly of educating the citizens who were deceived by Bush.
Impeachment?...Vote and be counted
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904/
Yap - Americans have done in Iraq is not fit for discussion; only animals behave in this manner.
Excuse me mr. yap, but animals do not behave as badly as human beings. When did you ever
see animals other than humans who killed other living things just for the pleasure of killing.
Stop comparing sick behavior in humans to that of animals will ya? We, being we f-ing human
beings on this tiny blue planet are behaving much worse than any animals ever would.
Arvy, Moving forward is not what I said will happen on Impeachment, I said it keeps the pressure on.
Dennis deserves respect for all the work he has done to help protect our constitution.
Congress will need more progressives elected in November for any hope for more of that and most things America needs to improve.
We can encourage and help in this crucial time or be negative towards all who are trying... That is an important choice.
Attitude is important for positive change.
Should we share Common Dreams or nightmares?
Yes, I enjoy it!
Jim Glover June 10th, 2008 3:44 pm -- Dennis deserves respect ...
Agreed, and I never said or thought otherwise. It's Congress as a whole that deserves no respect and, judging by recent opinion polls, that's quite well understood even by those who can't quite figure out what to do about it.
As for dreams, whether of the nightmarish variety or not, eventually, unless we die in our sleep, reality intrudes on all.
QUESTION: And what is the so-called "antiwar" candidate, Barack Obama, got to say about permanent military bases in Iraq?
ANSWER: Not a damn thing!
Some antiwar candidate. Some progressive.
Obama wants "change." IN A PIG'S EYE HE DOES! (And I cleaned that one up, in case there are any sensitive pigs out there.)
The fsct is, he won't make *any* fundamental changes. Barack Obama is a corporate mouthpiece who does nothing more than provide a "business as usual" figleaf for the military-industrial complex.
Obama's stand on the War has now retreated to: I'll leave it to the discretion of the generals in the field. In other words, virtually the same position as George Bush's.
This is typical of Democratic presidential contenders. That is to say, during the primaries they move to the left -- re. Obama trying to pawn himself off as an antiwar candidate early in the primaries. Then once the nomination is in hand, they move to the center-right -- re. Obama now taking a position on Iraq virtually the same as Bush and McCain.
Congratulations, Obama, you're now officially part of the problem.
For the *real* Barack Obama, see: "The Obama Craze; Count Me Out" -- http://www.counterpunch.org/gonzalez02292008.html
And also "After Bobby Kennedy (There Was Barack Obama)" http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/31/9327/
wsws.org website says:
"QUESTION: And what is the so-called "antiwar" candidate, Barack Obama, got to say about permanent military bases in Iraq?
ANSWER: Not a damn thing!"
----------
Oh really,
Obama said this:
Q. What would you do with the huge embassy that we've built?
A. Well, that raises a whole other set of questions.
Q. And the (military) bases.
A. I've been very clear we should not have permanent bases in Iraq.
Q. Would you leave the embassy?
A. We have to have an embassy, absolutely. Now the fact that we built this Xanadu in the middle of Baghdad, I would question the wisdom of that.
Aso on your false Petraeus claim Obama said:
"The question is not me being interested in telling Gen. Petraeus how to do his job. The question is, is the commander in chief willing to define a mission in which the military can succeed? And that is a civilian job. Defining the mission for the military. This president has failed to define an achievable mission. It is now up to Congress to define a mission. So as I said in these meetings (in Iowa), my first task if I were commander in chief would be to call the Joint Chiefs together and not tell them how to do their job, but I would tell them your job is to begin a phased deployment. Because the mission I'm defining is one in which we are withdrawing in a gradual fashion, that we are helping to train Iraqi forces and that we're going to initiate diplomacy as a more important tool at this point than the surge in order to achieve our goals."
-----------
Now if you are a Website disguised as a person, will you bother to explain your false assertions?
Ghawar: It appears to me the neocons are "negotiating" with the Iraqis to maintain an appearance of legitimacy. What sort of strong arm tactics will they try if Iraq continues to refuse? I don't know. There might not be any. Invade again?
Its obvious the bases are there to protect the (now American) crude oil under Iraqi soil from being sold outside US approved channels. Also to prevent sectarian or ethnic warfare from preventing the flow of crude. Also it is important to keep Iran or even Turkey from annexing part of Iraq while it is defenseless. I guess Israel doesn't mind its "ally", the US, occupying a potential enemy country, either.
The Iraqis should not sign anything but should start working on treaties with Iran and Turkey and stall until Dubya is gone. They should go to the UN and ask them to declare the US occupation no longer legal at the end of the mandate.
thank you, bbr-001 June 10th, 2008 5:31 pm
---------
wsws.org website June 10th, 2008 3:59 pm
I've read several comments under your name in the last few weeks. Each of them is completely different in style and tone from anything I have ever read in the sober style of writing at the web site wsws.org. Can you explain this?
Only 58????????????? What does it cost to maintain a base in Iraq for a year? Guess if you want to play soldier and have fun ordering troops around you need lots of bases.
How many army bases do we have in Korea? ___ Ten, twelve?
How many army bases are there in the United States?? I never heard of 58 of them. Why have even one in Iraq, do we own or control Iraq now? I thought the war was over with "mission accomplished."
Ever wonder why our highways and bridges, dams, etc, are falling apart?
Global capitalism and its enforcer, the US government, are "falling down" and O'Bama can't stop the dominos.
"Look, there is going to be no occupation," said U.S. spokesman Adam Ereli.
------
All attention to the Petro-Zionist declaration! Do listen for to know where to place your chips! NOT!!
"Hello, I must be going.
I cannot stay,
I came to say
I must be going.
I'm glad I came
but just the same
I must be going.
For my sake you must stay,
for if you go away,
you'll spoil this party
I am throwing.
I'll stay a week or two,
I'll stay the summer through,
but I am telling you,
I must be going."
Groucho Marx in "Animal Crackers"
Hi Ghawar:
I'm not sure what you are asking. I visited the wsw.org. Looks like pretty dry stuff. I'm not a socialist, not even really a progressive, and not an intellectual. I found CD while looking up something. In a way CD is like those all night discussions college kids have in their dorm. I have learned many times what I have contributed here, and my eyes have been opened regarding the "MSM".
To me, many of the subjects discussed on CD are beyond political ideology, and global warming is the most important. The Iraq war is wrong and based on deceit.
So is Ghawar (oil field) really in decline? Peak Oil Big Time!
This status of forces "agreement" reveals the real intent that the Bush administration has always had in Iraq--permanent occupation and military presence and Iraq as an American colony ruled by a puppet government and the disposition of the Iraqi petroleum reserves LEFT TO US ALONE. If this comes as a surprise to Americans, then they haven't been doing their homework, because the evidence of the US' real intentions has been out there for a long time. And don't expect Barack Obama to abandon these plans for a permanent imperial presence in Iraq either. He's part of the ruling elite in this country which feels that now that we are in Iraq we have no choice but to stay. To leave would feed a perception of US decline and weakness that the ruling elite won't allow to happen. So disregard Obama's rhetoric. We're in Iraq until we get driven out of Iraq or until our military refuses to shore up our presence there.
the only societies that have a future are those whose populations can be sustained by their resources
bushies great society may be martial law here there and everywhere they can
if Obama really tried to change things wouldn't they Kennedy him
the sheep won't notice a thing until they can't afford gas or a bigger TV
why were the Brits so dumb to go along with this?
the way of all life: big fish eat little ones
we did a great piece of work with the native americans--"mainfest destiny"
who said "life doesn't suck and then you die?"
WRONG, the USA wants Iraq to look like Gaza, as Gaza has about a billion cubic feet of Natural Gas just off shore that Israel has stolen.
I'm suprised that this story left out the fact that gwb (he doesn't deserve caps) is holding billions of Iraqs money as a hostage to try to force the government of Iraq to sign these bullshit agreements.
Want to know more about those "Status Of Forces" agreements? Ask any GI or Sailor who is currently, or ever HAS been stationed in places like the current day South Korea or Japan. THEN ask the "host nation" about the feelings of THEIR citizens.
Seems like the bribes are not working, they will at least have to quadruple the amount to have any effect.
Ghawar June 10th, 2008 2:34 pm writes;
"I do not understand this aspect of foreign policy. Why does the U.S. government plead and negotiate with the people it has conquered?"
It's very simple. If you can get the beaten down to sign a confession or "agreement" they can't come back and say, "I never said that or agreed to that". This has the appearance of giving the entire scam a dose credibility. The administration is desperate to get things sealed and engraved in stone be fore they are thrown out of office, because they know President Obama is going to undo all the fraud which was put in place to for the sole purpose of assisting and enriching the energy corporations.
NASA issues "Boycott NASA" certificate to planetary science/meteorite Researcher.
http://www.bccmeteorites.com/NASAcert.html
SRD-BCCM
concerning Wsws.org,
Any troll can use any handle they want for whatever reason they want.
That's the military's job -- to guard the financial interests of the super rich war profiteers.
Anyone want to bet that the proposed 58 bases will be placed in proximity to oil well heads, pipelines, refineries and shipping terminals?
In the same way that the US/NATO bases in Afghanistan follow the now discarded Unocal pipeline?
The Lee Hamilton mentioned in the article is the same Lee Hamilton who was Co-Chair of the so-called 'Independent 9/11 Commission', which produced the 'official' version of events of that day, and was deeply flawed, if not an outright PR fabrication.
Lee Hamilton is a product of the MIC, Wall Street and the CIA and can therefore be counted on to produce government talking points like a trained seal.
Hey Great News , the Iraqi Parliment does not want or need permenent US military bases. ( 58 to be exact )
We have WON, they are ready to govern themselves.
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!! VICTORY for our military, job well done.
GOD BLESS THE USA, GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS. VICTORY!!!!!!!!
Come home, be with your familys.
Iraq is ready to stand on its own with a new democratic country.
YEE HA the war is over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bornfree. remember, the war was never about democracy. It was all about controlling iraqi oil. therefore it can not be won, callit a neverending occupation