I don't understand the fuss. Everybody knows that defense lawyers in turriss cases aren't entitled to see prosecution evidence anyway.

Move along, nothing to see here!

Poor Khadr--even if he isn't convicted, he's going to spend the rest of his life in Gitmo.

Can you say concentration camp?

The question is, will this be "allowed?" Have we sunk so low that no semblance of the rule of law will apply? If that's the case, why are we wasting the cost of a trial (I know, it's political theatre for the election)? Bush or Cheney or Condi or the Supreme Court, anyone with the courage of their convictions and the willingness to accept responsibility, might just as well sign the execution order or the command to throw these POWs (?), political prisoners (?), into prison for life, and be done with it. Save us all from the spectacle. Because, if we are forced to witness this travesty, and we fail to speak up and demand that the protection of law we as US citizens believe we are entitle to be applied to these detainees, we become complicit. We become the good Germans of WWII, with the exception that we cannot pretend ignorance.

"Honor Bound to Defend Freedom"
- from article photo

Apparently it's the freedom from the truth. Padilla's lawyers faced this same problem when the government "lost" the interrogation tapes it made. The government offered a summary of the interrogator's notes. From this article apparently that's because the originals don't exist.

"...minimise certain legal issues"
The government probably also minimizes by neglecting to remember who interrogated whom, why, when, where and how. Did we rendition that prisoner? Really? I don't remember. War, it's so chaotic you know? Things will get 'lost'. Like truth and credibility.

"doubling the total of military lawyers"
Sucks to be a military defense lawyer. Those sent to Gitmo have no career left unless they kiss up to prosecutors.

What a total travesty! It's almost beyond belief.

I sincerely hope that, when armed Chinese debt collectors invade the United States, USans will not forget that it's illegal to resist the invaders. If you or someone in your home tosses a grenade at one, you'll end up charged with murder undergoing 'harsh interrogation' in their version of Guantánamo. And I would strongly recommend against that outcome.

So..WHAT...exactly was the POINT?..if they.."destroyed" their notes...then...where is the.."information"...are they just..REMEMBERING IT? Like some kind of photographic memory specialist that comes in and memorizes all the "intel" and then they destroy all the records..??? a sort of "39 steps..to guantanamo" scenario???
This is...INSANE!
AND YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT ALL..YOUR TAX DOLLARS PAID THE SALLERY OF THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT COMMIT THESE ACTS, AND THEN DESTROY THE RECORDS..KIDNAPPINGS..MURDERS...RATIONALIZE AWAY YOUR ONE LAST POWER...THE POWER OF TAX STRIKE..
If you PAY..then you ar COMPLICIT! period!
LIVE FREE OR DIE..
SEE YOU IN THE TRENCHES...WELL..PROBABLY NOT..

It's sickening to watch my mom, sister, close friends, all shrug their shoulders and give a "I don't care" type response to ALL the criminal actions of the Bush Administration. They all can sure get worked up over the local crime scene and would feel far more motivated to do something if our local elected officials reacted with the same indifference to crimes committed here in town as elected officials in DC do to the federal crimes committed as policy by the Bush White House.
What causes the disconnect?

If a person is ordered to detain someone without due process or access to legal counsel and complies, they commit a criminal act. If a person is ordered to torture someone and complies, they commit a criminal act. It is ludicrous to expect a person that commits criminal acts to suddenly develop a conscience when asked to commit another criminal act by destroying evidence. It is even more rediculous when that evidence would implicate them in their crimes. Once a criminal begins their downhill roll, they only pick up speed.

Marci: Your comments are de ja vous; my family exhibits the same behaviors and attitudes regarding the criminals occupying the white house, as well as our Congress -- the most corrupt institution in the country. The attitude is "why are you working trying to change anything? There's nothing you can do, so why are you wasting your time?" None of my family or friends do a blessed thing to speak out, or inform themselves -- nor do they care to. I have no faith in the American people to come together to change anything. Sure there are lots of us out there speaking out, working for change, but the majority of Americans are too uninformed, too stupid, or too apathetic to make a difference. It's really discouraging and just plain maddening. One day I was speaking with my sister about all that's going on and she went beserk, screaming and yelling that she was sick and tired of hearing about "politics" and hung up the phone on me. Politics? How about participation in trying to achieve the democracy so many brag about in this country, but are too dumb to realize they/we don't really have? Disconnect for sure!

JH writes:

"The question is, will this be "allowed?" Have we sunk so low that no semblance of the rule of law will apply? If that's the case, why are we wasting the cost of a trial (I know, it's political theatre for the election)?"

Hey, if you answer your own questions correctly . . .

marci, NancyH: Make that three families. And counting . . .

Make that four families and all my neighbors, too.
I have several e-mail friends that agree, but most people have their eyes and ears closed, but wait a few more months those mouths will be open for food,' cause it won't be available'...

Under Article 6 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law."
What enabled our leaders to create a nowhere for human rights in Guantanamo Bay?
Fear and bigoted fantasies promoted by preachers and politicians have certainly played a role.
for more, see Don't Ignore the Brutal Truth About Guantanamo.

Marci, Corvo and NancyH, it's the same here in the UK, nobody cares any more. As long as the little personal space isn't affected, then they are not going to be bothered about "strangers", because that doesn't impact on them. I know very few people who care about the important things in the World.
Nancy, when I talk to my Dad or sister about politics, they tell me that I am depressing them, and that I will only make myself ill worrying about things.

Hey AndyUK: There's no point whining in the choir. Get on your MP's back, write to the papers, make a fuss in public. You aren't alone, so get on and irritate the powerful until they take notice of all of us. Wednesday is a serious day - the vote on 42 day detention without trial. Change starts where you live.

Londoner, I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I have tried talking to MPs (I have quite a good one, who voted against the Iraq war), but with the whip system in full swing, there are very few if any politicians who will vote against their own party.
Our political system need a complete overhaul, because our elected MPs are not serving the people who put them there, and they are certainly not sticking to the Labour party code as I remember it.

Same here. While this may be a wrong, this isn't a common dream. What we do about it, or who we bring into the common understanding, is a common dream.

This is a chance to take a stand for your country

A Ballot for a Free People's Referendum

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC. is no longer responsive to the will and inherent freedoms of the People of the United States or its sovereign states. Our rights guaranteed under the Constitution have been ignored and dissolved. The House of Representatives has illegally and consistently refused to give proper address to a multitude of high crimes and misdemeanors committed by the Executive Branch under the present administration. The Executive, Judicial and Legislative branches of the government have consolidated into one criminal, corporate enterprise. We are engaged in a war that the majority of the People no longer support. Our children and Iraqi children are being poisoned with depleted uranium. Genocide has been and is being committed in our name. Our Veterans are being ignored, abused and left homeless. They are returning home and committing suicide at the rate of 17 a day. Veteran's ills are being denied. Innocent People of the world are being tortured in our name. Agreements with neighboring countries have been and are being made outside the consensus of the Congress or the American People. Our environment is being destroyed. In a time of dramatic need, alternative energy sources are blatantly ignored, overlooked or neglected. Monumental catastrophes in our country have been grossly mishandled. The system of elections has been corrupted. The inequality of the judicial system is shameful. Our children are being denied health care. The illegal Federal Reserve System has stolen trillions of dollars from our economy and its laborers. The main stream media has been complicit every step of the way. The integrity, honor and spirit of the American People have been forever scarred.

It is long past time to take back the United States from THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC.

It is time to re-establish and refresh the original content and spirit of the Constitution for the United States of America.

This is a call to all True Americans to awaken from the nightmare that pervades our land….to create a new dream…..a dream based on truth, honor, integrity and real equality.

This ballot is the beginning.

DO YOU BELIEVE THIS GOVERNMENT….EXECUTIVE, LEGISLATIVE AND JUDICIAL SHOULD BE RECALLED AND DISSOLVED AND A NEW GOVERNMENT ELECTED DIRECTLY BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE PUT IN ITS PLACE?

PLEASE CHECK "YES" OR "NO'

YES____ NO____

Signature____________________

Email Address (optional, but strongly requested)________________________

Postal Address (optional)_______________
___________________________________

Please copy, paste and send to ignotzle@windstream.net

.
SS Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himmler would be proud.

Great torture, secret detension camps, destroyed records.

No evidence, no prosecution.

Can I say; "I told you so' now?

Face it people. The US is now a Fascist Dictatorship. And Empire in all but name.

And all of those who will not stand up to fight will serve on their knees.

What is the Democratic Party doing about this? What is Obama dooing about this? WHat has Obama done to
(1) hold Bush accountable for war crimes?
(2) Stop funding the war?
(3) Stop one-sided support of Israeli imperial-colonial-racist policies?
(4) hold Bush accountable for domestic spying of Americans?

Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.

The Dems are not an opposition party, it is the complicit party - and Obama/Clinton/Pelosi are complicit.

Come this November - anybody but the two parties!

Looks like the American government is involved in a conspiracy to torture and commit other crimes against the peace and against humanity. Should the House and Senate let this stand then they are the ones going to The Hague.

Remember the Retired Generals that were sent out by the Office of Information for the Defence Department to all television stations to hype the upcoming "Invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan". Remember those same Generals worked for companies like Lockheed Martin and Think Tanks like the Rand Corporation.......They all wanted the Invasions to go forward for the good of American Capitalism.

The New York Times allegedly broke the story and the television networks immediately removed said "Propagandists". However, the tactic changed from presenting the government's case to the people to eliminating Iraq and Afghanistan from the news. There is no news from either location and no politician is talking about it.

If the World Community does not indict all participants including Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, et al. for "War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity" then the World Community is a Co-Collaborator and will be responsible when the same people "Invade" Iran.

Over 1.2 million citizens of Iraq have died fighting to defend their nation against an invasion force that is now occupying its country and continuing their own Civil War.

Cheney had a policy of NEVER writing down his orders and destroying evidence has been the practice in everything from Valerie Plame to the Palfrey Prostitution Case, from the firing of U.S. Attorneys to the movement of Nuclear Weapons to the staging area for the Middle East, and from the ommissions in the 9/11 Commission's Report to the destruction of the reports on Able Danger Group and its relationship with Mohammed Atta.

Both McCain and Obama have stated that Guantanamo should go. Yet, neither has introduced a bill to end funding for Guantanamo and setting up legal trials not 17th Century Witch Hunts.........Anyone tortured in Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib was under a continuation of the 50"s and 60's Brainwashing Experiments of the CIA. They were stripped of their personalities and given new personalities willing to accept blame for anything including 9/11. (Yes, you must still realize that World Trade Center #7 was more than likely a demolition with explosives and that means it was an inside job.)

When will the International Court of Law bring charges whether the U.S. recognizes it or not?

I saw a story (true or not, I liked it) about Winston Churchill and Bomber Harris together looking over the charges being brought at the Nuremburg War Crimes Trials. They lean over and read the charges on the table, then stand up, and are quiet a few seconds.
Then Churchill says,"We must be sure from now on not to lose any war we are in."

Londoner: The British situation is just about as bad as the American situation. The two American political parties are both tools of the same military-industrial machine; thanks to Tony Blair, Labour is no longer an alternative to the Tories. Except for the occasional local election, decent Britons no longer have any voice either.

Dennis Kucinich has put the Articles of Impeachment on the table.
Hopefully our spineless congress will follow through with their constitutional duty.
Roll back the congressional power usurped by this administration before any president takes office.
How can we expect a new president to give up inherited power?
IMPEACH NOW!!!

"Roll back the congressional power usurped by this administration before any president takes office."

This is a subject that needs to be addressed NOW so, of course, "no one" is even talking about it. If it is not rolled back, then the next administration will be the last administration. Yet another "Mission Accomplished" on the road to that New World Order.

jcrumb -

if people had the gumption for a tax strike, wouldn't they already have it for something far easier -- like demanding Bush impeachment and voting for Greens?

i hope you'll use your All Caps Energy to [help us] figure out how to heal people; unhypnotize them, etc. Since you have a huge amount of energy, maybe if more of it went into the figuring part instead of the screaming all caps part, you'd come up with something brilliant.

many of us share your energized anger. but epistolary screaming, you know, is just another kind of hypnosis.

hypnosis is bad. it's the enemy. for all of us.

these rules are good with me as long as we put the administration, Joint Chiefs of Staff Infection and members of the Supreme Corpse on trial for terrorist activity under the rules they have established.

I doubt you'd find one email or piece of paper that would indicate any wrongdoing by cheney. The guy covers his tracks and lets the lower-level bobble-heads take the fall.

-Yes we Are Honor bound to defend freedom, or something which looks like it...as thinking and caring individuals. But this is the end of a technosphere which has destroyed its agricultural and climatic base...and created a world of too many of us. SO: let's simply keep the history ALIVE.... of this debacle, this evil, this disgrace,
so that when the worm turns, we one day have our day in court. Remember how Pinochet finished his days under house arrest. Another torturer of scores of Chileans is being sentenced soon. Remember how many Argentine military brass now have been sentenced....the list goes on. And will continue.