"One look at this boy tells about his ability to follow orders. That shouldn't be a crime in combat conditions. Shrubby is the guilty party."

Suuuure. Lets blame shrub and continue with our serial killing. This 'boy' should be fried and dragged on the streets ... the same kinda frontier justice he chose to apply to the innocent Iraqis. Hey drift ... im no progressive ... you should send your murdering 'boys' (read thugs) down to my 'hood for some friendly, brotherly, bitchslapping ... this asshole wont last a minute.

These cowards, with the most sophisticated weapons and army in the world cannot contain a rag-tag bunch of Iraqi Resistance, as was evident with Muqtada al Sadr's recent show of strength. The only thing our dear 'Marines' or 'Boys' (i personally choose to call them scumbags) are capable of doing is emptying their weapons into innocent Iraqi women and kids ... these scumbags deserve to die a slow horrible death.

That is only the lawlessness of men who thinks they are superior - The laws of cause and effect [karma] are a bit different - there are no exceptions - it can be delayed but not escaped - it should be real interesting when all these chickens come home to roost - Karma? - just look at the suicide numbers - that is for the bottom layer - whole new layers of hell are being opened up for those at the top of this chain

Should we have expected anything other? "KILL KILL KILL" is drilled into marines from day one. KILL the subhuman brown man, woman and child. KILL KILL KILL. Killing is FUN. KILL for CORPORATE PROFIT. KILL. RAPE. KILL. RAPE. KILL. The Marines need a few good men. Join up now and learn to KILL.

Ganesh Help the USA.

Of course. Did you ever think that he would be found guilty?
The Marines are a brotherhood. When one of them screws up, they handle it amoungst themselves. If the media is ever involved, or any entity that might bring dishonor to the organization, evidence will be scattered and erased, alibis will be manufactured, and honor will be maintained. The truth will be blurred to the point that all cases will either be dropped or end in an acquittal. The news will always be that there's 'nothing to report' or 'nothing to see'. It seems strange but that is the way the Marine machine works. Each part moves to protect the other and maintain the integrity of the corps. To them, it it nobody's business what goes on inside. A few dead Iraqis is just spilled milk.

This Marine is not the criminal. He was put in a hostile and insane environment, and acted accordingly. Many of us would do no better in his shoes.

The criminals are in the Administration who deployed this Marine. They should be tried for war crimes.

Yeah, maybe Wuterich will win that lawsuit against Congressman Murtha after all! No doubt he will be judicially determined to be clean as a hound's tooth-- all those troublesome hajis just fell down and died of natural causes, it turned out. Case closed!

And while it's certainly true that the most criminal, culpable, and monstrous actors are nesting in the highest links the top of this twisted chain of command, and ought to be held accountable-- they won't be either, though-- it's not an either/or dichotomy. Evil is not zero-sum.

When did the Nuremberg Defense become respectable?

Even before this maladministration broke all of the checks and balances they could reach to permit their unfettered mayhem, it was known that military justice is to justice as military music is to music. Now it's pure farce.

Speaking of Murtha, whatever happened to his tearful opposition to the war?

Did someone give the crocodile a handkerchief?

"The killings in Haditha are the most serious war crime allegations leveled at US forces since the 2003 invasion to topple Saddam Hussein."

Says it all really.

As you sow so shall you reap

old english proverb

Will our government give metals of honor for these crimes commited in the November 2005 incident, which saw men, women and children shot dead by Marines? It is, however, a nice picture of a baby faced killer.

Drift, this Marine is a criminal and he got away with covering up a murder. He willingly went along with Bush/Cheney's war of genocide. And I will not let you get away with that "poor marine just doing his job" talk as a cop out. This kid is a punk ass.

overkill: yes.

"However, since charges were first announced in December 2006, prosecutors have struggled to make the allegations stick."
Gee, I wonder if these prosecutors could even get a conviction of Osama? The evidence against him is probably not even a compelling as for these defendents. He would do well to hire the Marine defense attorneys to defend him. They could get him off with manslaughter, or disturbing the peace of New York City.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

As my favorite Marine, Gomer Pyle would say, "Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!" These trials are such a farce.

RE:"forextrader June 5th, 2008 2:46 pm
Drift, this Marine is a criminal and he got away with covering up a murder. He willingly went along with Bush/Cheney's war of genocide. And I will not let you get away with that "poor marine just doing his job" talk as a cop out. This kid is a punk ass."

Right on. Every single one of these soldiers need to lay down their arms and refuse their illegal orders. Honor. Sacrifice. Patriot. Any other move is criminal.

Babyface or not - this punkass is a murderer. I want to wipe that grin off his face, along with smirk's grin as well.

And I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth, bluesky. I said he was put into an insane environment by a criminal Administration, and that you can't be suprised if some people do insane things when put in insane environments.

Thankfully, we live in a country whose military is under civilian leadership. This is what distinguishes us from a military junta. The responsibility for Iraq lies with the President, and his Administration, not this, or any other member of the armed forces.

If you were genuinely progressive you'd want to help our soldiers heal from their wounds rather than punish them for policy decisions they have no part in making.

This is just scandalous...acquitted after such a brazen crime....one other in the lost list of reasons US forces will not be seen as liberators.

>>Salman June 5th, 2008 2:06 pm
As you sow so shall you reap<<

Origin is not old English but from Galatians IV in the Bible.

Drift- Get this straight. The US military is NOT under civilian leadership.

The US military is under CORPORATE leadership. The US government is under CORPORATE leadership. US society is under CORPORATE leadership.

Corporate leadership of a militarized society is called FASCISM!

The USA is FASCIST STATE!

It's that simple.

That grinning, murdering motherfucker should be executed, instead he will probably come back home to a hero's welcome. These are the Marines we are supposed to feel sorry for and forgive. Ofcourse we will use every possible excuse to justify their actions. Now if only we could use the same set of excuses and standards for the so called 'terrists' ....

riddimboy: Well, at least you can't say this is any different than what's always happened in the past.

Why is this man smiling?

It was said in a video (docu) I recenly watched on VN, every battalion that served there at one time or another had its' My Lai. So true and why should the fiasco run by the murderous gang of theives and thugs in the present admin be any different. Yes, there was a trial around My Lai too--Calley was guilty but pardoned by another lying theiving coward like Shrub. Also a repuke. I was in VN for 2 years and yes, the Bn I was in had its' murderous day too.

Speaking of VN, I read today that our great want-to-be cmdr-in-chief, McShame, managed to compile all of about the equivalent of 1 day in the life of a grunt in VN as his 'combat time" followed by 5 years in JAIL. I guess he has more combat time than either Shrub, Clinton or Obama though.

About all that can be said about McCain is that he did his combat time, and honorably. Beyond that, I think his viability ended in South Carolina 8 years ago, when his integrity was compromised by the success he saw cheaters and liars obtain.
As to foot soldiers and murder charges, I'd like to see the higher ups prosecuted instead of these young shavetails. One look at this boy tells about his ability to follow orders. That shouldn't be a crime in combat conditions. Shrubby is the guilty party.

Sweeeeeet!!!!

Support our (war criminal) troops anyone?

War Criminals.

drift writes: "This Marine is not the criminal. He was put in a hostile and insane environment, and acted accordingly. Many of us would do no better in his shoes."

Drift, it's comments like yours that make Americans so hated. I suppose the soldiers that raped and shot that 14-year-old girl are also blameless, having shot her 5-year-old sister and parents beforehand. And the helicopter pilot who blew up a group of unidentified Iraqis - many looked like children - for merely walking down the street, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, so to speak - also innocent? And the Americans who strafed a primary school, killing several small children (their excuse: someone shot at us from down there). All innocent, ARE THEY? We would all do the same, WOULD WE?

Just remember America started this war. America chose to invade another country, and America is continuing the war by pillaging Iraq, and treating the Iraqis with complete contempt.

This is a war against the Iraqi people, not an "evil" regime.

American citizens in the military do plenty of wrong, and we would NOT all do the same.

Many Americans would be happy to nuke the entire world - if they deemed it necessary - and still say what a marvelous, decent bunch of people we all are - it's just our president!

Americans voted/allowed Bush back in for a second term - just remember that!

And just remember how Americans mindlessly rally round their president during conflicts, and don't give a damn how many foreigners die - all that matters are American lives!

America destroyed 60% of Fallujah, prevented all males aged 15-55 from leaving, then shot or blasted anything that moved.

The hostility is coming mostly from America.

Watch a US pilot murder in cold blood a whole group of Iraqis - many look like children:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410A.html

Just a note to rgmccon---Obama was born in 1961 which would make him about 12 when the Vietnam war ended, and 30 when the first Gulf war started. Not many people join the Army at 12 or 30, so let's excuse him from combat, huh?

Ahhh, the tolerance and warmth of fellow progressive travellers...

I've despised this war from the very beginning, and nor do I claim to deny the deleterious effects of multi-national corporations on our constitutinal democracy. That's a given for anyone attracted to the progressive point of view.

Nor do I claim that any of us are blameless. If you've bought a tank of gas lately, or a computer to post comments on to this site, you've chosen to involve yourself in some way with the dirty business of living in a world sickened by lies, greed, deceit and murder.

My point remains this: whether our constitutional democracy has been thoroughly overrun by the corporatacracy or not, the U.S. armed forces do NOT make foriegn policy decisions. Period. They just don't. They take orders from the civilian leadership who are supposed to be accountable to us, the people. Now I personally think this is a good idea. The alternative is dictatorship, operating brazenly and unabashedly in the open. Think Chile under Pinochet.

These soldiers have been sent into a little corner of hell right here on planet Earth. A place of almost unimaginable suffering. The tools they've been given are those given to soldiers; not those given to diplomats, social workers, or saints. Most really are doing the best they can to survive and get back home to their families. Many break under the constant mental, emotional, and spiritual trauma of living in a war zone with no front lines and no easily identifiable enemy. They're sent over with no training to equip them for the very foriegn culture they're living in, and many are on their 3rd, 4th, or even 5th back to back deployment into combat. Stop-lossed. The rates of PTSD, and suicide, PER CAPITA, now exceed those seen in Vietnam. And when they come home, there's no adequate services available after 30 years of Conservative rule. Many are ticking time bombs in our midst. Chickens, if you like, come home to roost.

And the best we can do here at CD is clamor for their heads? They've been punished ENOUGH by being sent to fight an illegal, immoral war. They need to be brought home--ALL OF THEM--and given every service and opportunity to HEAL. And yes, of course, the enormous task of making reparations to the Iraqis must also be undertaken.

But first put the responsibility for this tragedy where it truly lies. These people have names. We know where they live. They're supposed to work for us.

Impeach them. Try them. Remove them from office. Then arrest and imprison them. Start with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Tenet, and Wolfowitz. Expand from there.

Finally justice was done and this Hero can be set free. God bless American and my Victory against these Islamo-facists be soon!

Galen

You got it straight up. USA is facist.

drift,

Just to be clear with your point:

Are you suggesting that the young shitbird Louie, (pictured above,) had orders to shoot 24 civilians? Or are you saying he had orders to shoot (period)?

There is a difference, ya know? We have rules of engagement, even in war. (I suspect this is how the POS was cleared by the "jury of his peers.")

I have a dream that someday the US will uphold its treaty obligations. I have several other dreams for the US, each as unlikely as this.

May the revolution be as swift as it is peaceful.

Hello happystead,

I suggest neither.

What incentive does any branch of the US government have in successfully prosecuting the criminal acts of its own employees? None.

This was true in Korea, in Vietnam, in Iraq and in all the dirty little - and not so little - covert operations that the CIA and other agencies have been involved in since the end of WWII.

Americans even got a small taste of what much of the rest of the world sees of the US in Waco. Hopefully the one silver lining in the dark cloud of unfolding economic collapse is that your government (no longer of, by, and for the people, if it ever was...) will be too broke to continue its killing sprees.

Drift, they volunteered. They made that choice. They could have made the choice not to enter the service and be trained dogs for Bush. Forgive my hard headedness.

drift,

Kudos for acknowledging the fact that the United States cares VERY little for its people, whether serving in the military or not.

This does not excuse those same people from committing murder, be they a mad bomber in OKC or a trooper seeking REVENGE (against civilians) for attacks committed by an enemy created by the hubris of our leadership.

The fact that this Lieutenant is getting away with the execution of civilians IS A STAIN ON OUR MILITARY. There is no justification for illegal acts, be they committed in war or peace.

I have a feeling Mr. Greyson will forever regret his acts, but this isn't punishment enough, is it?

I nominate riddimboy to be Executioner-In-Cheif. Riddimboy, you'll look great in a brown shirt and knee-high shiny black leather boots. We'll give you a snazzy red, black, and white arm band embroidered with an ancient symbol of eternal life, inverted. To round off the ensemble, a riding crop and officer's cap with a death skull medallion.

Yeah, you're no progressive. That's crystal clear.

Happystead,

I agree with you. The incident is a stain on the military. The entire Iraqi enterprise is a stain on the conscience of every American. At least it should be.

In a truly progressive society, people are responsible for their own actions. That there might be a larger finger of blame to point overall does not mean one absolved from their own actions.

As example I live in a consumer society. I live in a Capitalist country. I live in an economic system where consumption is encouraged.

That does not make it the systems fault if I am filling 6 bags of garbage a week to take to the landfill. I can not exonerate myself by saying "it the system to blame as designed by our politcal leaders".

So too with the actions of soldiers in Iraq and elsewhere. They are the ones that make the decision whether or not they will pull the trigger on a group of children at play.

Such behaviour is unacceptable and should always be unacceptable. Certainly there a larger criminal involved here but that does not excuse the behaviour of the individual.

Australian Pilots in the war scrubbed a number of missions when they made they as individuals deemed that the mission they were sent on would result in civilan casualties.

Suggesting there another to blame exonerates such behaviour. It like someone molesting children and claiming it not his fault because he had a strict father.

Suggesting the leadership to blame implies there no personal decision making at play and this implies we are little more then tools of the system and the powers that be.

If we are going to shift our invidual faults and crimes we commit to our leaders because "they are the ones ultimately responsible" then by extension this progressive lable one gives oneself is also at the will of those in power.

"To round off the ensemble, a riding crop and officer's cap with a death skull medallion."

Sure ... why not drift ... with that entire ensemble the 'Marines' will draft me in a minute.

With ALL the charges being continually levelled against the U.S. Army and the Marines (your fellow nazis) the best you can come up with is 'The incident is a stain on the military' ! You wonder why im no 'progressive' ... i dont keep your kinda company ...

Just something to add and my own apologies for the second post.

I think that in the United States, there exists a condition where the Military is all but worshipped. People have been born and raised on this steady diet of that soldier defending all that is right and true and had it not been for that sacrifice the United States would have no freedoms or liberties.

In order to get oneself out of that mindset I suggest that those who will not critique the actions of the soldiers in the field of battle just use another example and see if their same argument holds water.

We have as example Rwanda , where various leaders encouraged groups of people to pick up machetes and slaughter their neighbors just because they were another tribe.

Certainly the people who condoned and encouraged such behaviour are criminals, but so are those who were following orders and participating in the killing of men woman and children.

Any one of these committing the murders likely had a childhood more subject to violence and poverty then those Americans going to Iraq .

Are those inviduals to be exonerated? Are they blameless for what they chose to do even if under orders or encouraged to do so? Would people who label them as murderers be out of line?

Unfortunately this is an excellent example of overlooking the obvious.
This officer was found not guilty, by other officers, who are participating in an illegal war themselves.
Whether those officers are on the line, or at "rear support positions", their silence in the face of this illegal war, their continued maintenance of their "Commissions" is by virtue a participation of those crimes-----
That of waging an illegal war of aggression--
Is it any surprise that this would happen?
The United States leadership is corrupt from the Top-Down, the USA has much to answer for.
Now, the populace must face the possibility that this international level criminal will be "coming home" sooner or later, to join society. Become a Policeman, run for office,or anumber of things. He will
walk freely through a society that in a large part has aided him in his commission of these crimes, and will no doubt "forgive him" of those crimes.
Military Courts, trying war crimes, is with few exceptions a mockery of justice, and this is one more prime example, of just how corrupt the leadership of America has become.

The Marines have become nothing more than a massive gang of murderers and rapists.

It is not as if the people he murdered were white christian women and children. For god's sake these people were brown skinned impoverished muslims.

That photo is a very scary picture. The eyes and the smile don't belong together.

The Lieutenant looks joyfull, happy in the extreme. It makes me wonder if he'd be smiling like that if some Iraqi had just machine-gunned the men, women and children of The Lieutenant's family? Isn't it the same thing?