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Obama, Clinton and Anger to Burn
In politics, as in so many other aspects of life, anger is a combustible fuel. Affirmed and titrated, it helps us move forward. Suppressed or self-indulged, it's likely to blow up in our faces.
With the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination coming to a close, there's plenty of anger in the air. And the elements are distinctly flammable. As Bob Herbert just wrote in the New York Times, "the Clinton and Obama partisans spent months fighting bitterly on the toxic terrain of misogyny, racism and religion."
Herbert doesn't spread the blame evenly. And, as an elected Obama delegate to the national convention, I don't either. But at this stage in the nomination process, the returns of blame aren't merely diminishing -- they're about to go over a cliff.
The anger that's churning among many Hillary Clinton supporters is deserving of respect. For a long time, she's been hit by an inexhaustible arsenal of virulent sexism, whether from Tucker Carlson, Rush Limbaugh or Chris Matthews.
If Barack Obama were facing defeat now, his supporters might be more inclined to dwell on the thinly veiled, and sometimes unveiled, racial bigotry that caused some Americans to tell reporters that they could never vote for a black man for president.
There's no lack of injustices, defamations and outright outrages to cite. They're important to remember, assess, denounce. And: Now what?
In times of emergency, people have been known to put aside differences, at least for a while. Sometimes, feuding neighbors unravel hoses and pass buckets so the entire block doesn't go up in flames. Or alienated relatives take care of a fading loved one. People who fear strangers learn to trust in a shared humanity.
The Bill of Rights is burning. Children are dying in Baghdad and Chicago and Los Angeles and countless other cities and towns because of Republican "leadership." Negative trends of governance are scorching a social contract that had been slowly weaving the threads of human decency.
This year offers an electoral opportunity to get out the fire hoses and douse the pyromaniacs of the GOP. But the long Obama-Clinton battle has depleted precious time with little good to show for it.
A lot of negativity has aired, and some of it has combusted. Despite the real progress of the past several decades, remaining prejudices and injustices of gender and race -- and, though less talked about in news media, of sexual orientation and economic class -- are still haunting us and shadowing the future.
Furious supporters of Hillary Clinton are now talking about Michigan and Florida. Understandably, they're apt to see recent developments in the context of despicable male chauvinism and unfair caricatures in the press.
There's more than enough anger to burn.
And John McCain is eager to benefit from every bit of such anger, the more displaced the better. Right-wing corporatists quietly cheer his calls to give them even more extreme tax cuts. Outright militarists are hoping for four more years, and the odds seem to be shifting in their favor. Men on the Supreme Court named Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito are waiting to welcome kindred spirits in black robes.
Unfortunately, the angry often end up burning themselves.
Norman Solomon's book "War Made Easy: How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death" has been adapted into a documentary film, now available from Netflix and other home-video outlets. For information, go to: www.normansolomon.com
168 Comments so far
Show AllOuch. Hillary for V.P.?? It is known that she would do anything to become President. Is Senator Obama that naive to believe, that given the slightest opportunity, she wouldn't arrange for his demise? A lust for power, no matter what the cost, seems to be her nature.
That's the third poster on this thread accusing Hillary Clinton of plotting the assassination of Barack Obama.
And some people never noticed any hate-speech from Obama's fanatics!
It is time for the Democrats to back away from snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and work towards defeating the Repugs.
So what happened to the uncompromising, brilliant Norman Solomon ... gotten soft ?! Does he actually believe the Democ-rats are gonna save the planet. Come on Normon .. we know better than that.
There really is no plan to bring ALL the murdering troops back. AIPAC rules as is evident right now in its despicable 'conference' of fellow bigots, and Israel, using us as the WMD continues to destroy the middle-east. There are vague disingenous proposals to combat climate change. There are no plans to resuscitate our finacial meltdown. There is no real energy policy. All this from the Democrats. Not even god can help us if she exists.
On another note its clear that a vast number of Hillary supporters will run into McCains waiting arms (if there is anything more disgusting i cant imagine it). So much for the pretext of feminism in their support of Hillary. Its been about race all along. Hillary exchanged the word 'woman' for 'white' in her campaign and i think thats what killed her campaign.
Oh please!
Enough coddling the Clintons so as not to rattle their CLUELESS supporters!
You think we are not angry at the depths the Clintons and their DLC hacks mined their sleazy operation! Enough with the nice-nice--haven't we had enough of our media-journalists not holding these criminal politicians accountable and giving them a pass at every turn!
The Clintons should be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail! Instead of challenging and confronting the Bush modus operandi--they adopted it as their own, figuring if the Bush gang could get away with their lies and deceptions-so could the Clintons as opposed to re-establishing ethical standards and accountability.
Atheist,
you should consider finding a hobby like yoga, you're going to end up with ulcers and hemeroids if you don't relax a bit and step away from the keyboard.
Clinton lost because she didn't do as good a job campaigning. Her lack of sincerity and her constant pandering, and her idiotic attempts to undercut Obama by parroting republican talking points undermined her own campaign. Sure there were folks who chose not to support her because she has a vagina, but many more like myself and JH and many others simply opposed her for her record (Iraq vote, Iran vote, failure to stand up to the legions of reprehensible Bush policies/actions), and the fact that she represents the continuation of a trend toward political dynasties which are unamerican and far too often corrupt.
Obama ran a better campaign. Get over it. If you wish to cut off your nose to spite your face by voting against the only progressive candidate that has chance of winning, then you are about as dumb as the poor rednecks who vote republican in hopes of ending abortion, keeping their guns and preventing gay marriage.
Incidentally I was pulling for Edwards whose campaign was anticorporate enough to earn him a quiet media assassination, because Clinton and Obama were such, "rock stars" and a two-way race between these two "titans" was just so exciting. When Edwards saw that he couldn't win,I sucked it up, picked what I felt was the next best.
In January I called for a united Democratic party. How things could have been different if someone had listened to poor little locust.
All this insanity and in-fighting could have been avoided. All that energy and money could have been used to attack the Rethuglicans on a daily basis. A united Democratic party would have created a tsunami of change, as we are finally, belatedly, seeing the start of. That's 5 months of lost time, America's valuable time.
If Mrs. Clinton withdraws, I point out that she could have done so in January and been a hero, giving up her chance at the Presidency for a greater good, the success of the Democratic party and the American people. Now if she gives up it's because she can't 'win' unless something happens to Obama.
As the article suggests, many of her followers will be upset and angry at Obama. This could have been avoided, but everyone's been wrapped up in 'winning' and 'losing' a primary contest, rather than .
I'm going to throw this thought out there .....
Is it possible that Hillary is actually deliberately HELPING Obama by hitting on all the possible avenues of attack to help him strengthen his ability to handle similar attacks over the coming months when attacks will be coming from McCain and his supporters (and from Independent and minor party candidates)?
This would give him precious preparation time and he undoubtedly needs it.
...'winning' and 'losing' a primary contest, rather than elevating above politics to reach a higher level, a mass movement, a unity, that will succeed in November.
sorry, finger twitching today-
There is no "misogeny" in disdaining crap like Bosnian snipers at the airfield and insistence on a gas tax holiday with windfall profits tax THAT EVERYBODY IN AMERICA KNEW COULD NOT BE PASSED. Hating lies and stupidity is not the same as hating women.
There is likewise no "misogeny" in knowing in advance that Hillary would be defeated on the antics of Bill alone.
Some of us men would delight in America having a female president. But Geraldine Ferraro had the wrong personality and Hillary Clinton had the wrong husband. Still, though, there is a chance we could elect Hillary as VP.
"We could elect Hillary as VP"?
Like that would change anything? (and "we" don´t elect VP´s pal)
USAmericans have become so lame its extraordinary. Simply extraordinary.
Criticalthinktank and Johnny Mo this is for you.
In case you think I am a Hillary hater, you're right, I am a woman that hates Hillary and it is completely with merit. I started hating Hillary while Bill was still in office. But it goes back a little further than that, I worked on both campaigns in 1992 and 1996. I was a driver in the Clinton motorcade, my boyfriend at the time was a union leader, we were invited to the inaugural ball in 1992 and I noticed something really different about Bill and Hillary. When Bill Clinton was introduced to anyone, even someone as insignificant as me, for those 5 seconds, you were the only person in the room for him, which was amazing considering this was the leader of the free world. With Hillary unless you are very rich or a celebrity, she's always looking over your shoulder for more important people to whom she should be talking and that's just rude. I really started hating her when she acted so put upon during the Lewinski scandal that came out of the White Water witch hunt designed to get her husband when Bill was clearly taking a bullet for Hillary as White Water was the vehicle in which she hid the bulk of her profits for illegal stock trading. That anyone would believe she parlayed a $1,000 investment into over $150,000 still boggles the mind.
Hillary is no democrat, her scorched earth tactics in this primary season just out her as such a republican, it's offensive she claims to be a democrat. Hillary is wrong for the office of president. I am as a woman, offended by her ways. If she were a man employing these tactics, I would still be embarrassed. After Bush, I am really tired of being embarrassed by the president and I honestly think Obama will bring a semblance of dignity back to the office and some respect back to the US. Hillary is not a part of anything new but more of the "same 'ol same 'ol" and that just doesn't work any more.
The thing I love about Hillary is how she makes all these promises of what she is going to do as president knowing full well if by some fluke, she were to get elected, she will accomplish nothing as the republicans in the Congress will block her every move just like they did her husband. The democrats don't have a clear enough majority to help Clinton accomplish anything that she's saying she'll do. What we'll have is a complete waste of time. Time that we can ill afford to waste.
JF,
It is not hate speech to suggest that a human being might be happy if the death of another human being gave them the job of most powerful person on Earth. I'd be willing to see just about any single person I didn't love die, in order to get that job. It's called the ends justifying the means. Show me someone who wouldn't make that deal and I'd agree to make them my vice president.
Hillary is so very obviously desirous of that kind of power that many wouldn't put just about anything past her.
I hate Hillary. I have hated her for a long time. She is the kind of Democratic politician that I find disgusting. Her lust for power is palpable. She will say or do anything to get it (Iraq vote). Obama may be slick, but he seems more dedicated to using power to change to world than he is to having it for the sake of having it. Lot's of people hate Hillary Clinton, not because she has boobs, but simply because it is evident that deep down in her heart of hearts, she sucks.
Boris -
Does Hillary even have a heart or a soul for that matter? Any true democrat can beat her on her record. Plus the company she kept from the time she was elected senator of NY. Trent Lott, Newt Gingrich and the like, voting for the war, her policies and the fact she an elitist (100 people needed to contribute $100,000, indeed) truly earned her the title "republican lite". It's offensive that Hillary honestly thinks we haven't seen her for who she really is. Why didn't she just switch parties and run as a republican which she is, really. Oh wait, I forgot, the republicans despise Hillary.
BTW, I have been on Hillary's email list since day one, I know of whence I speak.
Won't it be refreshing to have a young family in the White House like Obama's? His two young daughters are so cute. That's not the reason I'd vote for him of course. It's just icing on the cake, you know, and much better than having the tired old lecher Bill and his delusional and overly ambitious wife Hillary back in the White House.
Lets say you guys are right. Lets say Hillary should have withdrawn in January.
Obama wouldn't have the chance he has now. Do you honestly think that all the racist preaching, the discovery that Trinity is a racist church wouldn't have come out during the summer or in the fall? The associations with Ayers and his wife, Rezco, Pfleger, Meeks, etc?
He has the next 5 months to possibly explain all this and recover. If not for Hillary, he wouldn't have this chance.
Having Hillary as VP would certainly help his chances. And he needs all the help he can get.
After six months of hate-speech from Obama's supporters, with Obama's tacit approval of every syllable of it, it's too late to unify the Democratic Party.
Almost everyone who has ever written a blog or even a comment critical of Mr. Obama has been vilified as a racist. If Mr. Obama were elected, what could we possibly expect except more of the same?
Norman Solomon does tend to rally around the dems at election time.
He supported Kerry and looked embarrassed when JK told people to rally around Bush.
PS
Jacob--you are a great comedian.
Many of us are truly just fed up with Bush's and Clinton's and our support for Obama has nothing to do with the gender of the current Clinton trying to get into the White House. Since 1981 which is longer than many people have been alive, we have had members of these
two families in the White House as President or Vice President. It is simply not acceptable to continue another four or eight years with
this pathetic fact of the life of our country. We need a clean break with the recent past to move on to a future where we can begin to repair
the damage that has been done. McCain seems to offer more of the same while Obama at least mouths the mantra of change. A contest this fall between these two will be about the need for this change and who can actually deliver on it.
Sure, Hillary's been taking lot of unfair criticism because she's a woman--and a lot of it has been pretty ugly.
But, ultimately, I think she will be judged correctly on her views and behaviors over the last decade or so.
The war vote, the support of NAFTA, the big biz ties, and the constant triangulating are what's finally going to get her in the end--and rightly so.
So, sorry ladies, better luck next time!
Hey, finally an Obama/Hillary thread, this should be fun.
Good thing all the bloggers aren't in a bar and grill discussing this on a hot Saturday night durng a full moon.
Lillulu, you got it just right!
Look people, it's over now, and it's all good!!
If Hillary wants to be VP, she can be!
Look at it this way, we have been through a very competitive primary process and Barack Obama is going to be the next president of these United States!
John McSame is about to get the "Thumping" of his life, both before and during the general election! A flood of new progressive Democrats are going to be elected along with Obama in a landslide of unprecidented proportions!
Those Clinton supporters who are saying that they won't vote for Obama are lying to themselves. After they lick their wounds for a while, they will come to the conclusion that voting for Insane McSame is political SUICIDE!
The fact that this primary has gone through all fifty states is another good thing in that the party has registered millions of new voters in all of them!
Now is the time to unite the party and get on with the business of getting the NEO-FASCISTS in the Republican Party out of office!
Quit fighting each other and GET ON WITH IT!!!!!!
OBAMA '08
The important distinction is that the press has attacked Hillary. Hillary has attacked Obama, who has been nothing but gallant to Hillary.
There is also the issue of Hillary's connivance with Republicans such as Richard Mellon Scaife, Ruppert Murdock, and most notably Rush Limbaugh. It is arguable that absent the help from Rush, she might already be out of the race, or at least much further back.
Hillary has fanned the flames of racism and the attacks on the Wright church. I hope that Obama does not give in to pressure to include her on the ticket. It would possibly be fatal to our chances, as well as to his life. She has brought it up twice and like Lyndon Johnson, I don't think she could say no to such a horrible idea.
The war vote, the support of NAFTA, the big biz ties and most of all, the ties with the Bush family junta is what will get Hillary the presidency, one way or another.
All of you Clinton bashers just cannot see the big picture, can you. You are ensuring your Messiah's loss.
I remember before Iowa leagues of Obama supporters shrieking that they would NEVER vote for Clinton in a general election, therefore she was not a viable candidate, therefore all of the Clinton supporters should vote for Obama. Great logik, or should I say extortion.
As the primary season progressed, this shrieking continued, the Clinton bashing ramped up full force (the worst of it came not from Republicans, but from Democrats !), the MSM joined in and declared Clinton dead at every available opportunity (despite the fact that she STILL has virtually the same number of votes as Obama), and Obama and his surrogates engaged in cries of racism. Nobody had a problem with flagrant misogyny, but how dare we white people say anything about race !!! Yah, right. If Obama loses, and I'm sure he will unless he puts Clinton on the ticket, he and his surrogates and all of the Obamabots will all cry racism, when in fact some (many ?) of the people who refuse to vote for him are as far from racist as can be.
Btw, Stinky, it's not just women support Clinton. And if you were using the term "ladies" as an insult to men who support Clinton, then I suggest that you not be posting online because this site isn't appropriate for a 10 year old little boy.
Obama's goin' down unless he can come up with something tangible to offer the Clinton supporters.
"The Clintons should be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail!"
I agree. Bill Clinton should have been been run out of office by the Democrats after the Lewinsky affair - not for high crimes and misdemeanors - but for demonstrating a level of irresponsible behavior that a nation should not tolerate at the helm of power. It could have been done without fanfare and with total support of Democrats.
I have had it with Hillary Clinton. Here's the biggest reason she should NEVER be elected.
People hate her and I mean with a deep abiding hatred that will never fade with time. The democrats do not have a clear enough majority in the Congress to be able to help Mrs Clinton accomplish anything as president. We saw how her husband's administration was blocked time and again by republicans anytime he wanted to do anything, even wage war on Iraq, in which the repubs were quoted as as saying by doing so Clinton was "wagging the dog". Later when Bush became president, it was our sacred duty to go to war with the very same Saddam Hussein. Plus it will sooooo easy for republicans to "swift boat" Mrs. Clinton. I can see it now, they will have her smoking gun in hand, standing over the still warm body of Vince Foster and people will believe it. Further. do a little research, White Water was the vehicle in which Hillary was hiding her profits from illegal insider stock trades and don't forget the Rose law firm and all that entailed. Mrs Clinton cannot say she was vetted on these charges because she was never investigated, it was Bill that was charged for indiscretions committed by Hillary. The republican spin meisters went back to Vietnam to nail John Kerry whose record was immaculate, they won't have to work so hard to get Clinton and they know it. The republicans' choice for democrat candidate for president is Clinton and that should be considered greatly by democrats even thinking about giving Clinton their support.
The only thing Clinton has to offer the American people is that she claims to be a democrat even though her politics, her voting record, tactics used running for president and the company she's kept as senator for the state of New York out her the republican she really is undercover.
By the way, no one has been sexist where Hillary Clinton is concerned. You want lousy politics look at the garbage La Clinton has dealt out campaigning against Obama. She truly is a monster who has yet to really apologize for any of it.
As a democrat who despises the republicans for their corruption/dishonesty and the democrats for their cowardice, I despair for the country. If anyone in the party had a backbone, they would have done something about the dishonest, corrupt republicans currently in power as so many times they had them cornered (it seemed) therefore, doing something for the people of whom they claim to serve. However, they so lack the courage to do anything that might "rock the boat". Now is the time a viable 3rd party is really needed in an election where the people have no choice. We have 2 republicans (McCain and Clinton) vs a 1st time Senator with little experience in government. Too bad Al Gore is done with running for the presidency and has gone on to much more gratifying pursuits, we could use a president that is a success at everything he does.
And McCain wins by a landslide.
"The Clinton and Obama partisans spent months fighting bitterly on the toxic terrain of misogyny, racism and religion."
True. But what needs to be said and said repeatedly is that claims of racism and sexism quite properly should be articulated and thrashed out in the public politicking process of a democracy. But injecting religion as a divisive wedge issue into that process is illegitimate in our constitutional scheme of things, and is inherently counter productive to the cause of formulating sound government policy.
Prior to the 2008 Democratic presidential primary, only one of the two major US parties wore Judeo-Christian zealotry openly upon its sleeve, and imposed an internal litmus test of majoritarian religious belief as a qualification to run for public office. Now both major political parties have junked the wall of separation between church and state.
I think it's pretty predictable which end of the partisan spectrum - left or right, progressive or reactionary - will benefit the most from this tragic institutional dynamic in American politics. Barrack Obama is the first victim, but he will by no means be the last.
Bill from Saginaw
"John McSame is about to get the "Thumping" of his life, both before and during the general election!"
Hey now are you saying that John McCain didn't get the thumping of his life in the Hanoi Hilton?
That's very insensitive of you! don't ya think?
iowablackbird, your post is so full of droppings that it's nearly impossible to respond to them ! But nobody needs to, because what you say doesn't even matter. You and all of the other Obamabots have become irrelevant.
If Clinton isn't selected to be the VP, Obama is going to lose. I guarantee you it won't be because he's half white, but you'll cry racism anyway because you need some simplistic answer. You probably believe in a god, too.
You Obamabots might as well get used to President McCain, as he will have no trouble defeating Obama. As Chakra Khan said, this is just what Rove had figured from the start, and the compliant media made it happen. This will be a cakewalk for McCain, as our candidates who could have taken the election were thrown out long ago.
In case some of you think you are helping your cause by continuing to demonize Hillary, sorry, it will work just the opposite and cause people to vote for McCain or not at all.
Done, John McCain is a coward and a traitor!
Check it out at this right-wing site -
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
OBAMA '08
All this hopeful Democratic party "will save the day" bullshit is delusional. What is wrong with Solomon and all these dimocrit apologists? Are you all senile? Losing your memory?
It's so sad really.
From a sort of conservative-moderate perspective... I think many of the democratic positions have merit... what has happened is depressingly amusing.
Hillary began as the favorite, but Obama gained ground as her negatives appeared to be too high. Now, however, Obama's negatives have risen at least as high as hers... but it is too late for the Dumbocrat to fix it. They will be sending their weakest candidate (Edwards was the strongest) to do battle with McCain, wh looks like a solid leader and statesman in contrast to Obama and his strange bedfellows that he's trying to boot out of the bed. Soon, he might even invite Hillary into the bed (figuratively speaking) adding her problems to his.
The Dumbocrats ought to adopt the Republican primary system.
>>John C: Bill Clinton should have been been run out of office by the Democrats after the Lewinsky affair - not for high crimes and misdemeanors - but for demonstrating a level of irresponsible behavior that a nation should not tolerate at the helm of power. It could have been done without fanfare and with total support of Democrats.
I agree. It would have made the Democratic party much stronger. They would actually stand for something respectable.
If I were the RNC I'd funnel money to fund the Clinton campaign up to and including the convention. It would be money well spent.
'...solid leader and statesman..."
Yeah, just like Bush-Cheney and their Right-wing reactionary religious nutcases. Even Republicans are coming out of the woodwork distancing themselves from the Bush disasters....except McCain.
Now if only the Clintons would bow out and stop doing the Republicans dirty work...
BTW, as a woman, what sexism hounding Clinton, I ask?
That accusation was just another of her divisive, desperate claims to rally up some support among those who forge the most superficial allegiances.
i just listened to her speech that she gave tonight in NYC, she will not be able to be elected dog catcher in harlem after tonight....
see you on the streets of denver...
...peace....
This message is for: soma90405
You can't speak for the 'people'. You hate Hillary period..maybe you hate women and feel threatened by a woman in power.
She is not that far behind the media has been spinning this she should drop out mantra trying to get their puppet candidate who is Obama elected. He got no bashing he is perfect apparently.
Obama, the true MESSIAH and savior of American people is no different than what we have in office now. Good media pounding convinced the stupid American people who can't critically think that Clinton is bad, and Obama good. Plus he has all the corporate money backing him. He spent so much money on commercials to get the Democratic nomination that it makes you sick. Gross spending by a Man with a big head, and just as mouthy as Clinton.
So when a woman talks tough...she is called a B#@ch
If she is too soft, she is weak. Well, that is what I call a no win situation. IT is still the BOYS CLUB in politics.
The media has won as they brainwashed the American people toward Obama..the power of the Media..just like it sold the War in Iraq.
The best candidate for the democrats was John Edwards but no. The Dems wanted to be clever, they wanted either a black man or a woman. Edwards deserved more support than he got because he actually had real solutions to the real problems we have, is a self made millionaire, and the clincher is a very handsome white man with a clever wife, beautiful children and a Hollywood name imagine - President John Edwards. But as the republicans like to point out, democrats don't know how to win elections. It probably will be John McCain that wins the election and that is sort of OK with me. Republicans made this mess, maybe they need to clean it up as well. I see either Obama or Clinton as a one term throw away president much like Jimmy Carter as the morons in charge of the democrat party don't learn from past mistakes. Just as long as we don't get another "Reagan" type president in the inevitable backlash.
Did I hear right? Having lost the nomination fight, did Hillary just endorse McCain?
Jacob Freeze's peculiar post struck a nerve but not the way he intended. All our debates in this country quickly and inexorably plunge to traded accusations of "hate-speech". You can't question anybody anymore, let alone publicly disagree, without somebody accusing you of "insensitivity" or "hate-speech" or "bigotry". The first people I ever saw doing this were Lyndon LaRouche's followers back in the 1980s. I openly disagreed with what one of them said and she hounded me across the plaza, away from their info table, shouting "bigot, bigot!" at me over and over. That's what I get for engaging a LaRouche follower. Wierdly enough, however, it seems the same words are on a lot more lips these days. If you disagree with many evangelicals, you are an anti-Christian bigot, who wants a "War on Christmas". If you disagree with Israeli government policy or West Bank settler politics, you are an anti-Semite. If you disagree with honor killings or the veiling of women, you are an "infidel". If you oppose Bush/Cheney Regime authoritarianism, you are a "terrorist appeaser". And who can forget Johnny Cochran shouting at the entire world that because the LAPD (stupidly) bobbled the evidence in the OJ trial, they were guilty of "genocidal racism!!!"?
Seems we have begun to believe the cynical BS we have contrived to score cheap political points against each other and heat up the evening news. I am not sure that people who think and speak this way really deserve to live in a free society. That's too damn bad for the rest of us, who, despite our flaws, do strive for civil and intellectually honest debate.
Lastly, I agree with Johnny Mo, the "moderate-conservative above. There is no doubt at all that John Edwards was by far the best candidate vs. McCain or any other Repub challenger. He polled ahead of all of them while he was still in it. He suffered from excess personal integrity, however, which prevented him from kissing enough wealthy and media elite backsides to get the money and clinch the nomination.
>>soma90405: The republicans' choice for democrat candidate for president is Clinton and that should be considered greatly by democrats even thinking about giving Clinton their support.
This is just another example of the idiotic thinking that has been the norm in this campaign season. Can you people not think for yourselves? This is as bad a saying that we don't want Obama because Hezbollah and Osama like him. WHO CARES! A candidate ought to be considered on his or her own merits. If some nut likes them... well... that has no bearing... and, it might be a good thing.
Finally, I don't think what you're saying is even true. I think Hillary would be the stronger candidate against McCain. Obama is far more vulnerable... the republicans prefer him.
"I'm not a Clinton supporter, I'm still waiting, but what I was trying to point out if this had come out this summer, Obama would have had no chance of being elected. In that respect I think its helped him. Its up to him if he explains or not."
Not buying it, sorry.
"I assume you are for Obama and will vote for him, which is great. But he needs a whole lot more votes than he has now and from a diverse voting population.
Remember there's a lot of bitterness from many of the Caucus states about the way the caucus's went."
I've heard this, but I don't buy it. And don't forget that it was Hillary who utterly dismissed the caucuses.
"I wasn't trying to be critical particularly of Obama, but thats my assessment of the way it is. And if he doesn't get high behind, they will absolutely slaughter him with this stuff in the fall."
Have you heard the man? Did you hear his speech after the Wright controversy broke? He's beyond brilliant at dealing with this.
"The one caveat here is McCain is perfectly capable of inserting his foot in his mouth and chewing on it. He has at times looked like a centipede doing that remember and he has a real problem with illegal immigration in his own party.
"Ayers and his wife? You mean the one Bill PARDONED?"
Thats the one! A pardon doesn't make them different than what they were and apparently still are."
My point being that Hillary et al had no business crowing about Ayers' minimal connection with Obama when Bill was the one who pardoned Doehrn.
BTW, to all the people who crow about Obama being divisive, compare the speeches given tonight. Obama praises Hillary (to the applause of his supporters) graciously while Hillary acts as if the race isn't over.
No reply Done?
Done, John McCain is a coward and a traitor!
Check it out at this right-wing site -
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
OBAMA '08
Any reply from those of you vowing to vote for Insane McSame?
John McCain is a coward and a traitor!
Check it out at this right-wing site -
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
OBAMA '08
"Hey now are you saying that John McCain didn't get the thumping of his life in the Hanoi Hilton? That's very insensitive of you! don't ya think?"
HEY Done, that's exactly what I'm saying!!!
John McCain is a coward! He sold out for preferential treatment while he was a POW and gave the enemy classified information and made propaganda audio and video for them!
If he were being held in Gitmo now, his testimony, supposedly given under torture, would be used to try, convict and execute him in Bush's military tribunals.
Every person in America should listen to Barack Obama's speech in St. Paul Minnesota tonight.
WHAT A SPEECH!!!!!!!!!!!!
OBAMA '08
god i miss paul wellstone......
..peace...