I don't need to impeach someone who's already impeaching himself.

Gas prices are so sweet right now for an enviromentalist like me... I can't wait for the "$7 dollar summer".

International isolation of our despot rulers ain't nothing I'm complaining about.

Tornadoes tearing up every bible beating climate change denier's hovel.. making them re-think something they never wasted two brain cells thinking on in the first place = hillarious.

Getting tangled up in your own WMD lies so I don't have to explain what Scott Ridder and Hans Blix have said all along = priceless.

Home prices and economy collapsing = it's the best thing that can happen to a selfish consumer-consuming-consumer nation like our fine example of fakedemocracy.

I was blocked again today and Kathyodat can't get on, about two dozen others are gone now.

KEM PATRICK: I had two comments on a CD article about a month and a half ago blocked with the "WORLD PRESS" baloney saying I either used the wrong name or password. That was the first and only time I had the "WORLD PRESS" block on one of my comments. Other times, it was the standard "your comment is awaiting moderation" theme. I had the right name and password, triple-checking them and it still wouldn't accept my post.???

seditious: As a union man I tend to agree with you. Good comments.

da black anarchy June 2nd, 2008 8:48 am:

"You guys want justice? Boycott the vote and refuse your place in the system. If you work for the state, refuse to enforce the rules on your fellow citizens. If you're a police officer, don't arrest non-violent offenders of the 'law'."

Are you kidding? Most in the US are too afraid of losing their jobs to put up any form of resistance like that. Debt slaves tend to act paralyzed. Why do you think most workers in the US don't want unions? Because that would assume a time would come that a union would have to fight.

I was just blocked on another thread here by ______"WORLD PRESS". ____I could not submit a comment, or then even get back to the article. The __ World Press __ screen said I had either used the wrong name or password.

In my cookies, the first one listed was "World Press". I deleted all the cookies and files and finally got back on by posting a comment on a thread from last month which is now in the C/D archives. Someone is playing computer games here.

All these politicians who talk about their "faith" and claim to be religious Christians are laughable. And why do these dumb reporters constantly ask them about their "faith" as though politics and religion are one. They lie nonstop, they are corrupt to the core, they OK killing-war for profit, many are guilty of sexual misconduct .... the list is endless. Power corrupts.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ---- Abraham Lincoln

peace coup sez: "I think we should focus on moving forward in a positive way."

Very nice sentiment. But if a doctor suggests the same to me after diagnosing a malignant tumor, I'm still going to request the cancer be cut out before I go on my positive way.

Dear Linda Boyd:

Haven't you heard? IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE! Sorry for shouting but I'm just trying to get you to hear. What that short, clear phrase means in mathematical terms is this:

DEMOCRATS = SHIT. No real opposition party would ever have made such a promise.

It is not Common Dreams who is bannng anyone. Some neo-cons have managed by skillful computer usage to do it. If you get blocked out, go to Common Dreams.org and click on the editors icon and he/she will help you get back on with a new password.

That's wonderful Cindy.

Now you be very careful and have those you trust fully watch your back. She's dangerous.

My absolute favorite comment on CD (and I regret I forgot the name of the person who made it) was that this utterly corrupt and putrid political system we have now, presided over by Republicans and Democrats, is exactly what people want. Eighty per cent of Americans say the nation is on the wrong track. Two thirds want out of Iraq, either now or within a year . . . yet who will these same savvy, sane and enlightened Americans pick to continue running the country? . . . Republicans and Democrats. The commenter was absolutely right; this is what people want. If they didn't want it, they would vote for something else, since alternatives are readily available. This is certain political suicide. And that's what Americans really want: rule by the collective Death Wish party.

Yo above,
Iammyself being censored. Welcome aboard, it has
happen to me too. CD seems it folks do not like nor
want to hear any truth but their own never mind if may be wrong. Impeach! You folks are sad. Never
been to the middle east, I will bet nor understand
anything but english nor know their customs or his-
tory, huh? One word "Freedom". Freedom for the
average common person. That is what this is truely
all about. Oil, sure short term, it is important but
freedom for women to go to school, everyone to vote
& all that FREEDOM holds. You got your ONLY because
your military folks stand guard & give all that is
necessary. You all ABOVE should thank a vet or
person in uniform. Vote! But try to find out facts
not just vote 'cause he looks cute or she is a woman.
Till you liberals do that, junk in junk out as the
comuter will tell you. Make terms good for 6 years
then that person is not worried about being re
elected etc.
George

iammyself:

Welcome to the machine.

pdf

Oops, sorry, not a black hole, a moderation hole.

What gives, CD? What are the secret words that gets one censored?

Is Common Dreams having a major database problem? Why are only 1 out of 3 of my posts making it while the others go down a black hole?

peace coup June 1st, 2008 1:09 pm

"I think we should focus on moving forward in a positive way."

I agree that we have to move forward and put as much energy into it as we can. However, as others have pointed out, we must follow through with some kind of process to hold accountable those who lied us into an illegal war and occupation. There are laws in place, both nationally and internationally, that dictate that wars cannot be started upon a mere whim, as has been done by the Bush crime syndicate. If we don't set a precedent, our moving forward will be for naught.

This is not an either/or situation - it is a both/and situation. Prosecute AND move forward at the same time. Much is being asked of us in this regard. It's a good fight and good work. We must do it.

I worked with the small force of UN specialists in Afghanistan under the Taliban. With demining teams and my Taliban advisor, I was able to visit many places in Pashtun tribal territory that were too dangerous to visit in the 70s and are too dangerous now for small groups of soldiers. Most Afghans were relieved that the Taliban were in control after many years of lawlessness. 30,000 used cars came into Kabul during the first year of the US occupation, bringing on choking air pollution, and roadblocks went up everywhere. I never saw alcohol served in public in Afghanistan before the American occupation began, and I never met anyone who had seen evidence of prostitution in the country in the thirty years that I had been going there. Now there are bars and whore houses aplenty in Kabul, on the main tourist street. Bringing hookers from the outside world into a conservative Muslim country with a large illiterate population at a time when AIDS stalks Asia is a war crime. The Bush bunch have committed many many war crimes, and until they are in prison, Americans can never again have a shred of intellectual or moral credibility abroad.

On one hand how can the US ever have credibilty restored if The Bush Crime Family isnt black bagged.

On the other hand the damage is sooooooooo extensive, the US may be unsalvagable. I mean where do you begin? It would take true progressives like Dennis Kucinich and Cynthia Mckinney to be in office for 16 years just to undo all the damage done. There was a great article on here quite awhile ago, " Turn off the Life Support America is Dead" and it touched on all the issues and what it would take to address them all. Bill Clinton took about 5 years to undo the damage Bush I did, and set it on a righteous course, but this Bush has and entire team attacking this countries infrastructure on numerous fronts. I do not think that Obama has the where with all to set it right.......

But I digress, as for The Bush Crime Family, hanging is too good for all of them.....

Take all your overgrown infants away somewhere
and build them a home, a little place of their own:
The Fletcher Memorial Home for Incurable Tyrants and Kings.

And they can appear to themselves every day
on closed circuit TV
to make sure they're still real.
It's the only connection they feel.

"Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Reagan and Haig
Mr. Begin and friend, Mrs. Thatcher and Paisley
Mr. Brezhnev and party, the ghost of McCarthy,
the memories of Nixon,
and now, adding colour,
a group of anonymous Latin American meat-packing glitterati."

DID THEY EXPECT US TO TREAT THEM WITH ANY RESPECT?

They can polish their medals and sharpen their smiles,
and amuse themselves playing games for a while.
Boom boom, bang bang, lie down, you're dead.

Safe in the permanent gaze of a cold glass eye
with their favourite toys,
they'll be good girls and boys
in the Fletcher Memorial Home for Colonial Wasters of Life and Limb.

Is everyone in?

Are you having a nice time?
Now the final solution can be applied.

~ Roger Waters (from The Final Cut by Pink Floyd)

"As for me, this November it is ANYBODY BUT THE TWO PARTIES."

Yeah, like Diebolt !

Dream on, folks. It really doesn't matter who you vote for.

Blah, blah, blah, de blah, blah blah. Both parties are corrupt to the core. Nothing will be done.....EVER. Just remember when you vote, that it all means ZERO. Corruption will never change, the pigs will always feed at the taxpayers trough. Its a bottomless money pit, that all politicians feed from. In the global war on terror, I'm GLAD they wasted $500 billion of the taxpayers dollars. Just print more! HALLELUJAH!

I love this website because it puts forward some valid points that need addressing. However, the so called 'progressives' fail to see that the answer doesn't lie in changing rulers. We need to eliminate our so-called rulers.

A computer program with bad code doesn't get better by changing administrators; it gets better by rewriting the code. This system does exactly what it's supposed to do. If we don't like the output, we need a new system, not new politicians. Voting Demopublican or Republicrat is just a lazy way of pretending to want change, without actually changing anything.

I'm not going to pretend to sit here and prophecy about what 'anarchy' would look like. What I will say is that we've tried using guns and ballots (bullets) against each other for millenia. Let's do something else.

Impeachment is working within the same system. You guys want justice? Boycott the vote and refuse your place in the system. If you work for the state, refuse to enforce the rules on your fellow citizens. If you're a police officer, don't arrest non-violent offenders of the 'law'. If we simply ignore these fools, they'll disappear. I promise.

Update: It's even worse than I thought.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107242/Congress-Approval-Rating-Ties-Lowest-Gallup-Records.aspx

- we impeach a lot of people on Green Island - for a taste - http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland/ex/gw19.html

ctrl-z June 2nd, 2008 1:02 am
Impeachment should be reserved for important things, like blowjobs.

True. Dick Cheny was almost surely involved in the outing of CIA agend Valeri Plame. He may be the "brain" behind the the push for war and many other crimes. If that true then he duped the Congress and fooled them because he didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

If someone who is fooled is sucker, then the Congress is full of Dick suckers.

"Our Nation" won't impeach ......... make that CAN'T impeach!

Best hope now is for someone to manage the inevitable crash landing, and to hell with our barrel-bottom "self-respect", which ain't worth a warm bucket of spit anyhoo.

America died sometime in the 50's, and it's all over now.

Impeachment should be reserved for important things, like blowjobs.

.Vote Nader to get the job done...

http://www.votenader.org/issues/
Nader Issues:
Adopt single payer national health insurance.
Cut the huge, bloated, wasteful military budget.
No to nuclear power, solar energy first.
Aggressive crackdown on corporate crime
and corporate welfare.
Open up the Presidential debates .
Adopt a carbon pollution tax .
Reverse U.S. policy in the Middle East .

Impeach Bush/Cheney.

Repeal the Taft-Hartley anti-union law.
Adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax .
Put an end to ballot access obstructionism .
Work to end corporate personhood.

.

willybilly homeward-angel's suggestions will have more effect than either posting here, or voting for Dimocraps.

I too wish there was less drinking and smoking (especially pot) in the movement. I can think of more than a few actions delayed while someone had to take just another "bong rip." Grrrrrrrrr...

Get clear headed and healthy for the times ahead people.

Impeachment is universal for the whole system. The elections are political masturbation!

In fact impeachment was used and is being, to divert a more effective and radical movement on wake the nation on the nature of the beast, that used as self-inflected wound on 9/11.

The clock is running on this typical administration, and congress is running for re-election, the conventions, and they just do not have the will to be anything but bend over with Nancy and Obama to the big lie, big money, and big wars.

The pending reinstatement of the military draft is of greater importance than impeachment on flacid grounds, it wouldn't be for high treason and war crimes. What token excuse, it is a little late to make an issue of his stupidity, they cheered the cretin at every State of the Union scripted disgusting orgy of reactionary jingoism.

What percent of the wealth should the super-rich top one-percent in the US be allowed to have after truly progressive income tax changes? I suggest 1% other might say 10% or 50% which would be an interesting conversation. But, I want a National Referendum on it. And so with the war, and ratification by popular of the International Criminal Court and bring these perpetrators of wars of aggression and criminal covert operations to justice. And not limited to the current regime, but Clintons, old George's and Carters and others still apprehendable. And to include Members of Congress, the Armed Forces, and instigators in the private sector of high finance, oil, the military industrial complex, and its parallel co-defendants as war criminals in the mass media for disinformation and conspicuous cover-ups.

Anyone who mutters, "we have to support the troops" is saying they support the wars of aggression, and for to understand that, they have to know the facts to discern the truth of 9/11 to know these wars are not defensive, only aggression and therefore war crimes.

So I impeach the impeachment group as a CIA/COINTELPRO type of diversion tactic.

In fact, there is little difference in the big crimes committed by Bush and those positioned to replace him in that office. So, considering their votes for the perpetuation of war crimes, impeach them too, or just admit this is a diversion by democratic hacks or possible dupes, to deflect attention to being guilty of the same crimes and sins.

It's not that complicated. Step 1: Stop up congressional toilets. Step 2: convince the plumbers not to fix them. Step 3: Release mice in Pelosi's office. Step 4: Get ready for impeachment.

Gail: Cute website.

PDF: It needs a 2008 update.

Tesla: Good website

http://www.impeachbush.tv/impeach/cityhow.html

...and Congress could only HOPE to raise theirs up to Bush's popularity ratings!

http://www.pollingreport.com/congress.htm

Have you heard that the Bubonic Plague is more popular than George Bush?

This is funny if you need a laugh right about now: http://assimilatedpress.blogspot.com/

tailcap June 1st, 2008 4:44 pm "Obama is the consummate sell-out! Sold out his own spiritual adviser (Wright) he has known for over 20 years because he was worried it might cost him a few votes!"

I am not alone in speculating that Wright WANTED to cost Obama votes. You see, if Obama becomes president (and he will), then game's over for people like Wright and Jesse Jackson. When they can no longer blame white people for all their problems - then they and their followers may have to get real jobs and take responsibility.

As for the caucasian priest - he just has (like his catholic brothers) a terror and hatred of women. What a jerk.

Back to impeachment: YES YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES. How do I help?

A major reason to impeach and punish the torture instigators in the White House is to defeat al-Qa'ida. As Robert Fisk says in his Commondreams essay today-
"Because al-Qa'ida is a way of thinking, not an army. It feeds on pain and fear and cruelty - our cruelty and oppression - and as long as we continue to dominate the Muslim world with our Apache helicopters and our tanks and our Humvees and our artillery and bombs and our "friendly" dictators, so will al-Qa'ida continue."

Moderate moslems are being radicalized by the US attacks on their human rights. On the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, we need to demonstrate to the world that we believe human rights are, indeed, universal, not just 'American' or 'Western'.

By our activism for impeachment, we can establish a foundation for future justice and peace. The military-industrial complex, which was desparately seeking a new enemy after 1989, will have to make 'ploughshares', rather than create new enemies.

This is a compelling discussion about a very difficult problem. I admit that I think impeachment is a long shot. A long shot to get under way and to have it occur in any time frame when it will make a difference over the short term. But unless America shows an insight and a willingness to _right the ship of state_ then the actions of the Bush Whitehouse will be complicitly accepted by all Americans.

So while I do not think that impeachment is the only thing that can be done, Americans need to do SOMETHING. As one current author has pointed out impeachment was the founders cure for _royalism_. It really is the intended tool, I believe. I think Americans could ask the Hague and the Intenational Criminal Court to intervene. Because the Hague mostly interacts with official heads of state, I think talking about and supporting impeachment is more practical though ALL OF IT is far from easy.

But, be clear, we as Americans must do something to signal to future presidents and congressmen that we repudiate these activities and we want in no way to let the actions of the Bush Whitehouse stand as legal precedents. We have to, people, or we lose that thing that made America something to be proud of. It slips from our fingers as we talk.

Peace coup, I understand your wish to not have devisiveness that seems to tear us apart as a people. We've seen that divisiveness all through the Clinton Whitehouse and through Bush's term, too. Tired, tired, tired. I understand. But I believe that we Americans must do some large action that signals our absolute rejection of the policy actions of the Bush Whitehouse.

The last 4 presidential terms have had countless squabbling over things that were not worth fighting about or for and all too often they provided political cover for something else, often something unsavory.

But I believe this is the last hill. If we don't stand on this hill, our democracy dies.

Indeed, it may be too late.

If we did not register our public displeasure with the horrible, destructive policies of the Bush Whitehouse with impeachment or trial by the International Court, what would equivalently accomplish that?

It's a compelling question for those who reject impeachment. How will we signal to the world that we (the US) recognize the error of our ways and will not let so many actions of the Bush Whitehouse stand as precedents?

Let's hear some discussion on that.

Timothy McVeigh was tried, convicted and executed for a tiny fraction of what the Bush Regime unleashed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Impeachment is going nowhere. The majority of Democrats don't want it, because it would anger their Republican brethren. GWB, Cheney and company need to stand trial for war crimes.

Regardless of how anyone feels with the issue, this article's headline points out the obvious. Too many citizens are unconcerned and oblivious to politics, law, and the degradation of accountability by the representatives who are supposed to work for us. Unless the citizens participate and take neccessary action, conditions in this nation will worsen.

RichM: I second your reply to Mark Abrahm. My compliments!

peace coup June 1st, 2008 1:09 pm
"...Instead of putting our attention on the failures and crimes of the past, we need to focus on what this nation can and should be. ..."

=============================================

The problem with this attitude is the fact that unless you have processed the past, the past will keep on haunting you, and will provide legitimacy for future crimes.

Impeachment, followed by war crimes tribunals for all actors is the only way forward.

Since the Dems are not willing to do this (because they are complicit, yes complicit) my vote this November will go to ANYBODY BUT THE TWO PARTIES.

"Our Nation's Self-Respect Demands Impeachment"

Really? Helllooooo Madam Pelosi, did you hear that?

Helloooooo Obama/Clinton supporters. Did you hear that? What have your candidates done to make this happen?

As for me, this November it is ANYBODY BUT THE TWO PARTIES.

actually, the title says it all, our nation's collective lack of self respect is totally acted out in the lack of respect which we show to others and this is nothing new . . .

when i was a child, i really liked the 'Little House' series by Laura Ingalls Wilder, it was not until recently when i read a biography of the Ingalls family that i realized her father (PA) was part of the first wave of white land speculators who moved in on the heels of the vacating natives . . . that is why they moved so much . . .

one hundred years earlier, we have Thomas Jefferson importantly pursuing (on paper at least) the right to
'life, liberty and the pursuit of property' (the latter later defined as happiness) -- for white landowners --

sad to say, no mention of the rights of the children which he secretly fathered with a teenage slave girl --

this entire nation has been built on secretly (or not) disrespecting others' rights and america's self respect stands subject to be impeached by the facts which have been so erroneously yet ingeniously hidden by history . . .

peace coup -- and other 'Have A Nice Day' dreamers:

How can our county as a whole move forward while our democracy-enabling institutions now stand on ever-deepening quicksand?

Our government's legal groundings --- plus most of our country's privately owned news mediums (our non-governmental truth vetting processes) -- have now become nothing but bog after bog of quicksand.

Before any durable "positive steps forward" can be taken, these bogs first need to be drained and filled in with renewed, firmer democracy-supporting ground.

Self-described 'positive thinkers' who are so terribly worried about mass-negative vibes arising from official accountability processes, might do well to recall that Impeachment does not need to be about hate-filled punishments of elected officials who've flaunted the Law.

Impeachment can just as well be, and in the end arguably only should be, about average citizens acting positively in their own behalf to reaffirm the democratic Rule of Law.

Impeach Bush/Cheney.

Don't vote for anybody who thinks violating international law and basic principles of the constitution is "not worth fighting for."

Yeah, that includes Obama. He will not even recognize the grave breaches of the law. Sorry, but for somebody with a constitutional law background, that is genuinely dishonest and just shows his loyalty to the establishment. He is the opiate of the movement you Dem apologists speak of. Prepare to be fooled. Politics as usuaaaaal.

If that makes me a "red", fine by me. Your attempts to marginalize those who are able to draw a line in the sand and say no, I will not compromise my integrity, are meaningless.

RichM is manifestly as pink... ssszzz...[click]

Whoa! I started to type something-- can't remember exactly what, now-- and all of a sudden I felt as if I were channeling the spirit of William F. Buckley; I heard him say inside my head, clear as day, with that trademark patronizing rictus, "RichM is manifestly as pink as a beeftongue. Write that down."

And luckily, I snatched my fingers away from the keyboard and used a pair of chopsticks and a pencil to ctrl+alt+del.

Things seem OK and back to normal-- but a word to the wise, if you know what I mean...

Umm, is there a way we can impeach the public, or deport to the center of the ocean the 75% of the public that, like dysgenic apes, bought into this scam?

"Impeach the Bastards, Put 'Em Both on Trial, Let's Tell the U.S. Congress to Play Grownup for a While . . . "

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/32849

Impeachments not going to happen, let's face it. But what about a citizens arrest? Is that just a term thrown around half-jokingly? Or can a citizen or group of citizens, possibly including members of Congress perform a citizens arrest as Bush is leaving the White House in Jan '09? I'm serious here? Is that a possibility?

Mark Abram June 1st, 2008 4:24 pm -- "The little red revolution cults ..."

Love it! The establihment parties must really be getting desparate if that's their current answer to those favoring a return to some form of constitutional rule of law where the perpetrstors of crimes against humanity face appropriate punishment. Now we're reds. When can we expect the HUAC hearings to begin?

Obama is the consummate sell-out! Sold out his own spiritual adviser (Wright) he has known for over 20 years because he was worried it might cost him a few votes~!

NO courage, no change. Just talk. Move the troops from Iraq and send them to Afghanistan (change). No impeachment, no end to war.

YES to letting Dick Bush get away with murder. Yes to 100,000 more troops to fight and die for Big Oil, Big Profits Inc, Haliburton, KBR, Raytheon, and a host of other profit seekers to numerous to list.

From his website:
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

We all know this is pure bullshit because al Qaeda isn't leaving. What this means is we stay there until we suck every last drop of oil out of her. To believe otherwise is to delude yourself. The troops need to stay so Obama can have them carry out their "targeted" strikes which always seem to get our troops killed along with many an innocent child looking out the window. A vote a Democrat or a Republican is immoral based on their record. Suit yourself.

Obama is part and parcel of the establishment. He is supported and backed by the powers that be because he puts a minority's face on imperialism. That's what's needed now, a new face, darker, younger, but in the tradition of Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice. Oreos.

RichM, I would be delighted to see Bush impeached. By all means, put all your heart and mind and energies behind this noble cause. Will you do this, please?

No, I didn't think so. The little red revolution cults win more recruits by attacking Democrats and "liberals." Today's prime target is the skinny kid and the hope of real change. Obama himself tells us that change cannot happen simply by electing him, but only by building a movement - one you will never support, because it isn't your style and you've got some other thing going on.

Again, what the hell..call Conyers Tuesday and DEMAND impeachment...202-224-3121, 202-225-5126, 202-225-3951, 313-961-5670, and 734-675-4084.

A men!

Go Cindy! I know this may sound corny but YOU are one of my heroes! I hope you defeat that sell-out, war crime collaborating, excuse for a human being Pelosi that so well symbolizes the decayed Democratic Party.

In case you stop by later, Cindy: congratulations! I gather that the wee procrastinator indeed emerged alive and kicking, as the saying goes.

I'm sure you've been appropriately furnished with "Number One Grandma" T-shirts! ;)

♥ Go Cindy! ♥

support Shirley Golub and Cindy Sheehan in their unseating of 'impeachment is off the table' Pelosi.

http://www.shirley08.com/

http://www.cindyforcongress.org/

You rarely ever succeed if you move against the planets.
Bush has done just that in the last eight years.
Thanks, Largely to Carl Rove.

The problem is, Bush's stars are about to get better.
Much better.

That means squat if somebody has him in their legal cross hairs.
But remember the power that Bush and Cheney weild.

We will have a very tough time impeaching this guy before his term is up. And any chance at all of bringing him before the courts will evaporate by 2011.

Karl Rove, on the other hand, might find himself in jail being someone's little bitch, in the next few years.

If the Celtics loose the NBA championship, ignore this message.

if we do not impeach them, we make ourselves complicit in their deeds, deeds which will become the model for what will befall ourselves.

Mark Abram (2:17) provides a classic example of the typical American liberal, to whom only one thing matters. For the liberal, standing up for principle (ie, defending the Constitution, opposing torture, etc) is not important; what's important is only whether such actions might "undercut" the chances of a Dem Party victory.

Note the parallel between the cowardice of the Democrats in Congress, who haven't stood up to Bush a single time in 7 1/2 years; and the matching cowardice of their liberal supporters like Mark Abram, who don't want to hold Bush accountable for torture & war crimes, out of fear that trying to do so might make the Democrats lose the election.

This illustrates how people who are gutless & unprincipled enough to vote for Democrats wind up getting precisely the party they deserve.

Dear Brother Kem Patrick
Sitting here adoring and worshiping my new grandson, Jonah Patrick...
I thought the impeachment idea was peachy, too and I wish I would
have thought of it about 8 years ago!

But I am not going to waste my time writing my congress-criminal, Nancy Pelosi, I am just going to defeat her.

xoxo
Cindy
www.CindyforCongress.org

Samson June 1st, 2008 3:30 pm -- 'The Democrats want no change in the current system.'

Of course not. Why would any participant in that very profitable system want to change it any way, except perhaps to further enhance its benefits to themselves.

In the circumstances, one might expect Dem supporters to wonder just a little about what 'CHANGE' Mr Obama has in mind, but apparently the solution is simply to vote for Dems and hope they'll all doublecross their paid sponsors in favor of voter interests. The fact that they've given no sign whatever of actually doing so is to be ignored.

Samson: Of course! The Democrats and Republicans are like a wrestling tag-team and we are the dupes getting tossed around the ring while the audience sits and enjoys the show. When the Republicans get disgraced enough they reach and tag their team mate the Democrats so they can come in and take the heat for awhile till the next round. Then it just repeats.

tailcap .... you've just caught what we be the Obama line come Jan. Look forward, don't look backwards. Lets not be divisive.

Its the same lines the Clintons used to let the last batch of Bush-Reagan crooks off in the early 90's. Its the new role of the Democratic Party. When the Republicans self-destruct, the Democrats come in and make sure they don't get indicted.

The one thing I don't get is that the Democrats clearly said well before the last election that impeachment was off the table. Yet millions voted Democrat expecting impeachment?

Its like there's a fantasy Democratic party in people's minds that they think if they vote Democrat that this is what they'll get. They seem immune to obvious facts as to what the Democrats really are. So oblivious in fact that when Reid and Pelosi come out months before the last election and say there will be no impeachment that they still vote Democrat and still expect impeachment.

You see it this year too. There's this very strange myth going around that Obama is a secret revolutionary that can't say what he's really going to do in order to trick the powerful into letting him be President. There literally seems to be a belief that Obama is going to do the opposite of what he's saying when he's elected.

Just like Reid and Pelosi saying there will be no impeachment long before the last election. Can't people watch the actions of these Democrats and see what they really are?

Things will change when people stop voting for the corporate backed candidates that they see on TV. None of these care about us or our country. They are already bought to serve corporate interests. We have to stop electing them.

peace coup June 1st, 2008 1:09 pm
"I think we should focus on moving forward in a positive way.

Certainly we must understand what has happened and make ammends, but the best way we can do that is to move forward in a positive way.

Instead of putting our attention on the failures and crimes of the past, we need to focus on what this nation can and should be. This is where I'm trying to spend my time and effort."

Oh, right! Let's make it legal to launch wars based on lies, to get thousands of people killed, spy on citizens, out CIA agents if you don't like her husband and just about anything else you'd like the powers that be to get away with. I agree, it's too messy to hold our "leaders" accountable to the laws of this country. After all they are big, important people and can be forgiven their trespasses.

Let's just make sure everybody else is accountable to the law or else we will have a society completely run amok. I just paid $470 (fine+traffic school) in LA for failing to completely stop at a red light before turning right. Do you think the judge would have bought my argument about the need to move on, forgive and focus on what a good driver I can be instead of wasting time on my past crime? Why not?

The mistake is in anyway assuming that what's good for the nation is at all considered by the Democrats when they craft their agenda.

The Democrats want power. That's it. They don't care what they do to get it (witness the last primary season). They have no principles that they won't give up to get power. There is nothing so immoral that they won't do it to get power (like continue a war that's killing thousands).

The Democrats want no change in the current system. What they want is to be the ones holding the power. They want to be the ones being paid off by the lobbyists.

i'm with kem patrick. i say, tongue in cheek, impeachment sounds like a great idea; why did nobody think of it before?

everybody read up on detroit's mayor. his city council voted to remove him and requested that the governor of michigan begin the removal. if there is such a thing as playing dance music while watching an iceberg hit and the boat sink, kwame kilpatrick is doing that.

in my true voice this time, i say let the impeachment hearings begin!

"Why bother with impeachment if charges for war crimes will eventually catch up with the torture team? . . .
"Impeachment establishes legal precedent, so that future public officials will not be able to abuse power in the same way. The American people can signal to the world that they have taken responsibility for their own government, and ensure that torture will never again be this nation's policy.
"We must demand that Congress make ending torture the top priority. They know about torture, and their silence makes them complicit."

The eyes of the world are upon us. There's plenty of time to impeach. Our self-respect as a nation demands it.!!!"

Play it again, Sam! Play it again!

It is way past time for citizens of the United States to stand up and be counted! We must, for the sake of our country and our own sanity continue to demand Impeachment!

Impeach! Impeach! Impeach! Does anyone get that? Impeach! Impeach! Impeach!

I agree with Rich M but did get a giggle from Homeward Angel and Willy Bill. Impeach!

Impeachment is urgently necessary to restore the rule of law. Failure will result in the right wing's further twisting and manipulating of our institutions to aid further plunder, destruction and enslavement. It's likely that failing impeachment this year, we'll see world war over Iran when the right wing installs its next little dictator in the oval orifice. Failing impeachment, we have nobody to blame but ourselves as future administrations continue the established tradition of directly creating or enabling almost all of the man-made disasters on this planet. There is no excuse for allowing the dark side of human nature to occupy and dominate such a gigantic, dangerous institution as the US government.

The Democrats and the idiots who keep voting for them are the reason we're still in Iraq and Bush isn't impeached.

These Bush c*cksuckers have blood on their hands as much as Repugs do. Case closed. I'm glad this primary season has divided DUMBOCRAPS as much as it has, since the best hope for the left is a McCain victory in November. At least we'll clearly know who our enemy is.

We as a nation are enduring a fatigue of spirit from two failed and expensive occupations, and a congress unwilling to investigate, subpoena, and prosecute those parties responsible for the destruction of basic human rights and international norms. The destruction of the nation by the neoconservatives has been established and we are completely impotent now to reverse our very troubled future. I vote to impeach immediately otherwise eliminate that clause from the Constitution.

RichM, I think you might have found your niche. With your energy and invective behind an impeachment movement, who knows what could happen.

Too bad you and your friends will be too busy trying to pre-impeach Barack Obama and either undercut his chances of building a movement for real change or perhaps even putting McCain in the White House to continue and redouble Bush's crimes.

For those in the SF Bay area - here is a chance to express your views on impeachment:

"The Silicon Valley Leadership Group has amassed quite a lineup for its 30th anniversary luncheon Monday, which is expected to be attended by more than 600 people at the Santa Clara Convention Center.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will be joined in a panel discussion by U.S. Reps. Zoe Lofgren, Anna Eshoo and George Miller."

Let's consider the argument that it isn't worth pushing for impeachment on the grounds that "it will never happen" because there aren't enough votes for it in Congress. When taken to its logical conclusion, this argument implies that what citizens in any country ruled by tyranny ought to do -- is nothing. It's always a waste of time to oppose tyranny, because there's usually little or no guarantee that you'll win. Usually, you lose.

Therefore, any resistance groups opposing Hitler (The White Rose, etc) were really foolish. They should just have accepted that they probably couldn't win, so it wasn't worth sticking their necks out. Similarly, the abolitionists in the 19th century USA, and early advocates of granting women the franchise, and early advocates of the right to organize labor unions, and early opponents of the Vietnam War -- all these people were silly fools, because all of them faced almost insurmountable odds.

No, we should all be like Mr "peace coup", "homeward-angel" (1:21 pm) and Kem Patrick (1:33), and make fun of people who believe in principled opposition to tyranny. After all, standing up to tyranny usually doesn't have the votes in Congress; is too "fixated on the past"; and certainly isn't "moving forward in a positive way."

Rather than go to all that fuss of resisting tyranny, let's just "ride a bike, eat less meat, quit smoking and drinking." The odds of success are so much better, and it's not so "negative."

Mr peace coup (1:09) suggests "moving forward in a positive way," directly implying that impeachment would amount to mere "litigating and complaining about the past."

In this view, the Nuremberg Trials were just "whining and complaining about the past." Holding those trials was a bad idea, because it wasn't "moving forward in a positive way." The same with Nixon's impeachment -- those Watergate hearings should never have been held, because they were simply "too negative," and dwelt too much on "the past."

This desperate clinging to "being positive" -- so typical of American liberals -- is a refusal to face unpleasant realities. It demonstrates the rottenness & corruption of liberalism. Whatever is unpleasant, you just ignore, because any kind of accountability is "too negative." // In fact, this argument, when carried to its logical conclusion, implies that there should never be any accountability of any sort for powerful leaders. Anytime any of them is caught having committed massive crimes, one can just trot out the defense that doing anything about it is "dwelling on the past, and being too negative."

It's particularly ironic that a poster who goes by the screen name of "peace coup" should use an argument like this. There can be no peace without justice, and no justice without accountability.

Forget it, proles. Your voices don't count, not in this administration, not with this congress. Bow down to the superiors you elected to serve you.

Agree a 100% with Linda Boyd. But as I know as an activist for the last 5 years is that even the most ardent politically "aware" and "involved" citizens believe that Impeachment is too much trouble. It appears that many of these "wise" citizens are approaching the issue of Impeachment from a commercial business perspective; measuring return of investment of time and money and the 'what's in it for me' mindset. Many argue the extreme as an excuse to do nothing. One attorney asked me, "so you think impeachment is going to resolve everything?". It was a miracle that I did not pass out from the idiocy of that question. I believe we have come to this state of apathy becuase we have collectively in very significant majority forgotten the spirit and essence of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. I can guarantee that a majority of citizens who have or will respond to Linda's article will not be able to paraphrase our Preamble and/or Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights is like the 10 commandments of US citizenship and most US citizens don't know it therefore do not appreciate it and follow it in their lives as US citizens.

Wow, has this subject of impeachment ever been brought up before now? This is a swell idea. We should write or call Nancy Pelosi about this. She has a lot of power and probably would get right on it.

I'm going to write a nice letter and send it to her and maybe send a copy to John Conyers. Yeah, that'll do it. Should I send it special delivery, overnight express?

homeward-angel June 1st, 2008 1:21 pm ...This country is coming apart at the seams ...the Constitution is trashed, we are rendering and torturing innocent people, we hire mercenaries to help us with our dirty deeds, our Marines are protecting poppy fields in Afghanistan, we are killing women, children and infants in Iraq, we have no accountability for the money being squandered in these illegal wars, habeas corpus is gone, Americans are being spied upon without just cause and we are on the verge of invading Iran, another sovereign nation for NO reason, this selected president has lied to the American public uncountable times and has called the Constitution a G-D piece of paper and you are telling us to go ride a bike, eat less meat, quit smoking and drinking? Are you OK???????????

peacecoup, second that, i almost agree that Impeachment would be a waste of effort at this point in time. The Democratic leadership should have begun this on the first day of office circa 2006, when swept to power on a very big anti-war vote. But alas, they only voted for more funds for this for-profit war. What is a progressive to do, you ask? well for starters...

dont buy big box store crap
buy secondhand, garage sales a good place to start
sell your car(s), ride a bike
eat out less, and less meat for sure
(option not available to everyone, but still, MAX YOUR CREDIT CARDS, then stiff em) your credit score stinks anyways...
and also quit smoking and drinking for a week,
run a mile a day during this time, remember what it was like to feel healthy, and vital.
go back to school, take a political science or economics class and refute any bs theories that the professor claims as "the way"
ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS FELLOW PROGRESSIVES? The above list is just a start, gotta run!

peace coup June 1st, 2008 1:09 pm......May I ask why you do not see a Constitutional mandate as a positive step?

I think we should focus on moving forward in a positive way.

Certainly we must understand what has happened and make ammends, but the best way we can do that is to move forward in a positive way.

Instead of putting our attention on the failures and crimes of the past, we need to focus on what this nation can and should be. This is where I'm trying to spend my time and effort.

We can litigate and complain about the past, but we will repeat our errors unless we motivate this nation and world to be everything we have the ability to be.

We have the ability to live in peace. We have the ability to maintain legitimate governments, fair markets, and healthy environments. It is our choice to make.

Impeachment does take too long. A day to bring charges. A day for the pro forma evidence. A day for obligatory rebuttal and conviction. A day to deny the frivolous appeals. A day to say goodbye to the family before the public hangings. This shit could end up taking a whole work week. To save the Republic and restore some crumbs of dignity to being American citizens, we have to to cut out or consolidate something to speed up the process.

Call Conyers this Tuesday, June 3....DEMAND HE STAND BY THE CONSTITUTION...DON'T STOP NOW..WE ARE CLOSER THAN EVERYONE THINKS...202-225-5126, 202-224-3121, 202-225-3951, 313-961-5670, 734-675-4084.

Chickens will roost, one way or the other.

Self-respect? Our nation has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

For national self respect to be restored, it would take more than impeachment. Read Vincent Bugliosi's new book The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder ( see Amazon). A bit overwrought and belabors many points, but he's right.

Only it won't happen. Too many Democrats have been in cahoots with the whole thing. The Democrats remind me of what in boxing is called an "opponent" -- someone you put up against a rising contender who will appear to be putting up a good fight but is guaranteed to lose to make the contender look better.

The whole political system needs a major revamp, but that won't happen before peak oil, the collapsing dollar, global climate change and all the other chickens rapidly coming home to roost hit the homeland square on.

remember mcclellen

I am not alone!