It's about time someone pointed out this crucial fact. We can never make this system work as long as the corporate healthcare insurers run the system. More money goes to executive salaries, nice buildings, fancy decorating schemes, and advertising than to actual healthcare.

Obama has been wise, so far, to not cave in to the insurers' dream of having government force citizens to purchase corporate insurance "choices" defined ONLY by them. He has also been wise, so far, to avoid "single payer" like the plague (because championing single payer IS NOT how you get elected--think Dennis Kucinich, for instance, and how well he actually fared.)

Single payer (or a government-run "choice" among the other "choices") is what you work for AFTER you are elected.
If you get Obama and a strong Democratic Congress, you will get some progress on this. It is the most important REAL consumer issue of the 21st Century.

BTW, the California Nurses Association appears to be the best and most committed voice we have ever yet heard on health care and health "insurance". This should have been the mission of AARP long ago, but we have to understand that AARP exists mostly as a marketing vehicle to sell guess what? Privatized Insurance.

In my high school, college and graduate level business classes I was told that a corporation has a duty to its shareholders to maximize profits, avoid high risk ventures and risk being sued if they failed to do so.

As a business owner (sole-proprietership, partnership and corporation) the attornies I retained advised me to avoid activities that were not intended to produce a profit, not only to avoid lawsuits, but to stay on the good side of the IRS.

If I own a corporation that sells medical insurance, I therefore risk being sued by the shareholders if I accept high-risk policyholders, making a single-payer system the only way to provide universal coverage, irrespective of what John, Hillary or Barrack say.

Daniel David, for once I fully agree with you. It's tragic that the single biggest stressor for Americans, which only changes for the worse, is health care. Economies rises and fall; health care costs only rise while the benefits always fall. Those lying scoundrels, Ron Wyden included, talk about providing the same health care Congress gets. What they don't tell us is that it would be unaffordable for most of us, since while the taxpayers pay for them, we would pay for us. I talked with a Wyden staffer, and she said she pays for the second tier plan with Kaiser (whose CEO notoriously said the goal was to deny claims to maximize profits - as captured in SiCKO), and I realized that free health care was reserved for the elite only. A Russian saying is "A full man will never understand an hungry one".

Following is a link to an article about the hypocrisy of our elected officials, and the few who do have integrity. And the newcomers who are running on an ethical platform. They need our support.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howie-klein/how-about-if-members-of-c_b_98064.html

BeForKids

With all due respect to those on CD who are struggling with diseases that are apparently fairly far gone thus requiring them to rely on conventional medical treatments, in my view what's happening with health care is a clarion call to take better care of ourselves.

Keep in mind that hospitals--malpractice, the impact of several drugs taken together--are the 4th cause of death in the U.S. Cancer is now run like a business. Diabetes is a huge money maker as most remain on "maintenance" programs for life, essentially "rented" the use of their own bodies. VERY little energy goes into prevention, diet, alternatives to these INTENSE invasions into our bodies.

More ironic, tragic really, is the FACT that much of the deterioration of health is due to exposure of toxic chemicals in the first place. Whether in our water (flouride, chloride, the legacy of big pharma down millions of drains), or our food (herbicide, pesticide, insecticide, preservatives, coloring agents, and for added fun--irradiation to increase "shelf life"), or our air (particles of DU and/or old "dust" from bombs exploded in the US desert southwest) WE are a guinea pig population.

The long-term effects of GM food may end up resembling something akin to Thalydimide. Not all impacts show immediately, some are stored in the genes and passed to future generations.

I do NOT want enforced insurance. I seldom use the conventional medical. If I was in a car accident I would want a doctor to sew me back up, but if I was diagnosed with cancer, I would give up the last few things (caffeine, sugar) that impede FULL holistic health. I knew of 2 individuals on Cedar Key each diagnosed with the same aggressive form of cancer. The male took the medical route (chemo, etc) and died before (although not by much) the female, who decided to just live each day with Grace. Perhaps easier said than done.

In 2000 I lectured at The Whole Life Expo in Ford Lauderdale and attended MANY other lectures. One was given by oncologists studying how cancer was treated in other nations. They noted that often in the U.S. it recurs within 5-10 years. In Germany that was NOT the case because the Huffland Clinic (as cited) utilized a 7 or 8 point treatment program that also altered diet, taught people to get rid of stress through things like meditation, changed the blood ph and temperature, and at essence TREATED the entire PERSON, i.e. NOT the disease.

I also sat next to a geneticist a year ago while flying to San Francisco where he was part of a genetics conference. He said nonchalantly, "there is also the defiance clause," and I asked what that was. He said that a certain percentage (albeit not high) of people with cancer absolutely do NOT accept the diagnosis, and in a truly mind-over-matter demonstration of metaphysical proportions, they do NOT experience the typical wasting away symptoms. We do not have all the answers, nor is what is taken for absolute evidence itself absolute... matter can be altered through mind, always has been, though largely the province of magicians, India's fakirs and few exalted mystical teachers.

If corporations were afraid of shareholders, there wouldn't be any shareholders.

I disagree with about 75% of what Siouxrose is preaching. I agree with him/her that whole body wellbeing is something that we don't do well here in the United States (compared to more advanced countries).

However, the idea that you can "wish away" a terminal illness is bull. And eating sprouts will not shrink your brain tumor. To lead people to believe such nonesense is not only irresponsible, but morally wrong.

And Siouxrose has completely ignored the need for medical care for injured people or victims or war/violence. If I'm in a car accident, I want a doctor, not an herb specialist.

Siouxrose, I suggest you spend some time around folks with a critical illness to witness what they are facing. Universal healthcare is EXACTLY what we need so that at least everyone can have the opportunity to be treated.

It's time to emphasize spirtual, metaphysical and folk healing as an alternative the western medicine cartel.

dmia-

The quickness that you disregard the power of the mind in determining the outcome of illness shows how fully you have bought into the mechanistic model of the world, where pills are the solution to terminal illness and doctors are the only one's who know what is good for the patient. The allopathic system of medicine treats the symptoms of disease, not the causes.

What this country needs is a reform of the practice of medicine, not simply universal access to a system of medicine that is financially inclined to perpetuate sickness.

To believe that you can't use you mind to affect the health your body is to deny to truth of reality. Our thoughts have power, and to deny that is to misunderstand the interconnected nature of all things. Try reading the Intention Experiment, it may shed some light on just how powerful your thoughts are.

Daniel David,
Single payer is what you work for AFTER you're elected?

Hello? Obama isn't for single payer even if he is elected. He's a corporate Democrat. He's definitely not progressive as his stands for the death penalty, against Palestinian rights, against Cuba sovereignty, for increasing the military and escalating the misnamed war on terror and so many other positions of this deeply conservative man, show.

In Florida the spineless Obama came out for continuing the illegal economic sanctions against Cuba (they are condemned by the U.N. every year). So did McSame.

Returning to health care, both Obama and McCain want HMOs to run health care.

The thing about Obama is not only is he definitely not a leader he can't even follow. A large majority of Americans, doctors and nurses and single payer. He can't even follow. He is such a big celebrity his mere presence on the national political stage actually blocks real change, since he's in with the HMO crowd and their like minded corporate leaders who have donated heavily to his campaign, indeed vetted him in the first place back in the fall of 2006 or he wouldn't be running today.

Were Obama to take up the leadership position on this issue---single payer---he would completely blow McSame off the political map. But he's not for single payer, so it's going to be a tight race.

Go Nader.

Healthy living and conventional medical care are two sides of the same coin. Eating well (plenty of fruit and veggies with little or no red meat), practicing relaxation or meditation and getting sufficient exercise are the basis for being healthy.

After a certain age annual medical exams are a routine component of universal health care.

Even so, the body eventually betrays 2/3 of us with cancer or heart disease. Mental energy is insufficient to deal with these major acute or chronic illnesses and conventional treatment is necessary.

Unless costs are radically cut, national health care will be a full blown financial disaster. Medicare is already in debt. (partly because of the insurance involvement, partly because costs are seriously inflated)

The first answer has to be nutritional medicine and other alternatives. Costs would plummet. There is a bill in the Canadian Parliament to ban all nutritional and herbal supplements. It would also criminalize anyone who gave supplements to children, including parents!

This is where we are heading and is the first battle that needs to be fought. See: www.healthfreedomusa.org and www.wrightnewsletter.com (Dr. Wright has a B.A. from Harvard and and M.D. from Univ of Michigan. He has been a general practitioner for at least 35 years)

what's really missing is the mid-level practitioners, because doctors don't want to yield any turf

what about a nurse practitioner clinic associated with every (or almost every) elementary school in the country ? nearby, affordable, preventive care and (what a concept) the nurse practitioners would also (gasp) make home visits so you wouldn't be hauling a sick and infectious child into a waiting room full of other clients . . .
or packing up all your kids in the middle of the night to take one to the emergency room . . . etc. etc.

our health care system is a disgrace and my great-grandfather, who hitched up his horse and buggy to attend patients in the middle of the night, would be appalled at what his profession has turned into . . .

the nurses know way more about patient care and concerns than many doctors, but thanks to our paternal and hierarchical medical structure they are never even heard, let alone offered the opportunities they deserve . . .

we stay out of doctors' way as much as possible but there is always the possibility of a catastrophic event which can wipe you out financially in no time flat if you don't have insurance . . . even catastrophic ONLY coverage is rapidly becoming unaffordable . . .

part of the problem is medical school costs such a huge amount that doctors are on the hock paying off their student loans for many years (as our daughter is discovering), so naturally they are truly sucked into the system regardless of good intent by the time they graduate . . .

in ancient china you paid the doctor a modest sum to keep you well and the minute you got sick you stopped paying him, sounds like a good system to me . . .

in many respects siouxrose is absolutely right, but a lot depends on your frequency level as to what kind of health or wellness services you may or may not need and for the short term a great majority of the population will still require or at least think they require 'traditional' treatment . . . for my family, the 'defiance clause' worked well when faced with deeply invasive health issues, but we had all the advantages of a subsistence-style rural homestead . . . fresh, organic meat and veggies, pure spring water, healthy outdoor activities, etc. etc.

these conditions are not readily available to city dwellers . . .

in some ways the collapse of our medical system is paralleling the impending implosion of our transportation system . . . the important thing is to see the potential beyond the death throes . . .

One has to remember in a for profit health care system, there is no profit if the population is healthy.

It well and good that people change their lifestyles to improve their health or lobby to have chemicals and pollutants removed from the enviroment, but this will impact the profits of the health care industry.

They will lobby to prevent that.

The Insurance companies want you sick enough to ensure you buy insurance but not so sick that you become a liability. The ultimate health providers (Doctors, Hospitals, Drug Companies) want you coming back for more.

In a for profit system, it not in the best interests of the Corporations to cure diseases or prevent them, it is in their best interests that you get sick and they can treat them.

Thank you Alaska Maid and those who understand that HEALTH is related to treating mind, body and spirit! Our medical model treats the body as a thing! It sees everything in grossly materialistic terms. If you need a bone set, fine, a doctor is a good choice; but many diseases SLOWLY corrode the body and these degenerative things CAN be turned around. THE PROF I agree that with age, the challenges are harder; but there is also the logic that the body is breaking down to face the inevitability of its own mortality.

DMIA: I have SEEN brain tumors disappear, and personally overcome breast and ovarian cysts. I don't believe in JUST mind, I believe in lifestyle changes and dietary discipline. Isn't it Dean Ornish who helps chronic heart disease patients to HEAL whereas the modern medical paradigm keeps them on medications that control some symptoms. There's a world (metaphysical perhaps) of difference between managing symptoms and actualizing a CURE. The doctor can't do it FOR you, at best it's a co-operative engagement.

ALASKA MAID: I like the idea of the visiting nurse a lot. It reminds me of paralegals doing what a lawyer need not do at $200 plus an hour.

I would also like to see PREVENTION taught. In our society that overly identifies with consumerism, we think we can buy anything. And the consumer ethos shows in the extra weight on SO many, not to mention the highly unhealthy diets generally featured at fast food places. The speed of American life, so many working to keep up, working 2 jobs, working Moms makes the temptation to do the instant micro-wave meal (denatured of any nutritional value) or fast food drive by habitual. The LIFESTYLE of many Americans is unhealthy and not just in terms of diet, but how about FOOD FOR THOUGHT? Is it healthy to see so much violence in media or video games, healthy to support policies of vengeance against others? Karmic blowback can also impact a nation's mental and physical health.

WE (US) are NOT a healthy society by any stretch, and it makes me laugh and cry all at once to see the pundit/experts acting so cavalier in trying to socialize people to fit a model that is so clearly antithetical to all things balanced and spiritually whole.

Siouxrose, thank you for your - as always - valuable insights and thoughts. And ALASKAMAID, I really like the lifestyle you describe. We need to leave behind the mechanistic view of life, which became paramount in the 19th century and which we are stuck with, due to their value to corporate profits, and recognize that we are energetic beings that need to be in harmony with all beings. As an energy healing practitioner, I understand that we are meant to be self-maintaining and self-healing. That's obvious, or we would bleed to death with the first cut. Illness is not a natural state, not in the plant or animal world.

GwNorth is right. The criminal corporatocracy wants to keep us sick enough to make them rich, but well enough to keep us working for them. And if our illnesses get too expensive - claim DENIED, drop dead.

BeForKids

... forcing everyone to buy corporate health insurance makes fat leaches.

I thought that the healing arts had gotten beyond blood letting.

The unhealthiest aspect of American Culture, which seeps out everywhere, is to turn everything into a consumer good and a profit/loss statement.

Public policy, be it on foreign affairs wherein one launches wars to protect marketplaces , drives farmers out of business in the worlds poorest countries in order to ensure Multi National Corporations profit, and bases health and safety decisions (Aspartame anyone?) based upon how much money one gets from a given lobbyist will rarely serve the publics interest.

All one need do is examine aspartame and see how it was approved as a food additive and how it remains a food additive to see just how far wrong such a system is.

Siouxrose.

I fully understand where you come from when you speak of treating health holisticaly and of people changing their lifestyle in order to improve their health but you have to remember we speak to the same constituency here on Commondreams. It very likely the majority here are aware of many of the issues you speak of.

The greater issue is how to we get past all those firewalls of propoganda that are set up by the Corporations and powers that be to keep such information from being heard.

For every one of you speaking about holistic medicine, big industry can pay 500 pundits to inform the public that you are some sort of nut case and science shows that what you suggest is dangerous to a persons health.

As long as our Governments work in concert with the Corporations where the only issue is maximizing profit , that message will reach far too few.

Some parents are working two jobs and more. I think they should expect that the food that is sold in the stores, the additives that are added to our foord, the hormones used in our meats, the pesticides, herbicides and preservatives are truly safe when the Government claims they are.

Yes there has to be changes at the grassroots level. But to really have change that is effective there as to be a Governmnet in place whose first and foremost concern is the health and welfare of its citizens and not of profits.

Siouxrose:
Not sure if it was pointed out but the US has a very high infant death rate. Your suggestion is not the answer, it is side stepping a problem. People need proper healthcare right from birth and being pregnant to old age.
I live in Canada and when you know healthcare isn't a issue in your life STRESS drops to zero. If I get sick I get sick or hurt so what I have free doctors that will fix the problems. If a person has never lived with that type of healthcare system then you can't know what a great feeling it is knowing help is a phone call away. I am not saying you don't have to take care of yourself it makes for a better life, but not everyone can live that life style.

In Massachusetts the law already requires residents to pay taxes directly to corporations in this way. Most people who already had insurance used a "freeloader" argument to support it: "My premiums are too high because I'm forced to pay for those people to cheap to buy insurance for themselves."

Then people from within the "industry" wrote articles in the papers arguing that this plan of "providing" (Mitt Romney's word) health insurance to all MA residents would actually INCREASE premiums.

This reminded me of the bankruptcy bill that the banks wrote: get voters behind it by pitting them against each other.

I so far believe in the efficacy of western medicine. They have the diagnostic tools and therapeutic remedies and interventions to handle quite a range of pathologies and injuries. If you doubt this, watch what happens when Dick Cheney's heart acts up, or the President takes a bullet to the chest. The question is whether you or I, living in what John McCain calls the best health care system in the world, can expect the same medical concern as our privileged citizens. The gateway MDs in our Medicare Advantage HMO plans shoot us off to specialists who give us a fifteen minute evaluation clearly based on some perfunctory checklist, and we're outta there. If you have a complex problem that requires a little thought, a little diagnostic detective work, say three or four hours of some medical genius' time and attention, how are you going to get that? Who can afford it?

The insurance fracas is about how we go about providing everybody with the means to pay for health care, but does not tell you how to go about go about finding a doctor who will give a damn about your health problem.

American health car needs to be pulled up by the roots and replanted from one end to the other. Patients need to take responsibility for lifestyles that are not destructive. Doctors need to go into medicine for the right reasons. They should make less money. Nurses should make more. We need to be willing to pay for universal health care. Negligent caregivers should be purged from the system. A solution to the cost of malpractice needs to be found. We need to swallow our chauvinism and copy the best aspects of the health care systems of other countries. We need to nurture an ethic of professionalism and caring in health care and a lot of other aspects of our consumer society, If a way can not be found for the people we depend on to preserve our lives to give a shit about us, we might as well give up right now.

You can tell how far off track the discussion on health-care reform has gone when the idea of forcing everyone to buy corporate health insurance is sold as "universal health care."

The discussion on healthcare reform never was on track because the elites control the discussion. And such a packaging to force corporate insurance on everyone should be expected as a dumbed down public has surrendered its economic/political independence to elites. The most relevant issue in the healthcare discussion is the cost of healthcare in the US is twice the cost elsewhere. Neglect that issue and you will remain enslaved.

in the next 24 hours thousands will die that wouldn't if they lived elsewhere in the world than America.

GUESS THE COUNTRY?
Big military,
Private paid mercenaries that work above the law,
Arrests but no trials,
No health care for most but the rich,
Poor water and air quality,
Massive unemployment that is under reported,
Media that is controlled to misinform the masses,
Elections that don't give real life results,
sorry the list is to long isn't america great or is this some 3rd world country?

Siouxrose: IMHO, you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I recently attended the funeral of a man who had been treating his cancer with herbs, organic produce, and trips to the chiropractor. A more holistic approach to health is definitely desirable, but, in the case of terminal illnesses, conventional medicine has much to offer and should not be rejected out of hand.

When in doubt on the proper approach to issues like this, the best thing to do is to look to Europe and see how they deal with the situation. Of course, single payer doesn't play well in the United States of Avarice. Where's the profit motive?

Seriously ill people are already going to South America where the cost of medical treatment is much less expensive. Now that living expenses have become almost prohibitive it follows that more Americans will move to South America where living is also less expensive. I believe that retiring to South America will increase and become a trend. America is engineered for the corporate class and the rest can no longer afford to live in the U.S. Americans are not inclined to change things here.

GW NORTH: I totally agree with you. I do see this holistic movement having impact and working under the radar. I remember visiting a chiropractor in the Florida Keys who advocated a dietary system known as "Natural Hygienics." He was a sharp cookie, bought 2 properties and the Keys have lousy planting "soil." He was so committed to healing that he would go to various woodwork shops, collect the mulch, and eventually built up the equivalent of a jungle-like sediment around the property where he grew just about everything he ate. Terminally ill cancer patients came to live there and he fed them what he grew and VERY gradually they became well.

Because many people (I am in this bracket) cannot afford health insurance, the RESPONSIBILIY for learning how to care for the body temple will one way or another fall to them. Bush's raping our treasury pretty much means we can forget $ there for SS in coming years. I had my 2nd child at home with a midwife in Puerto Rico. Being connected to a process this powerful and NOT needing the medical middle men/women is a VERY empowering thing. Human life is amazing... too much of our lifestyle components undermine it. Some we have the free will to change, but tragically the chemical effluents coming AT us are not always elements we can control. The military emphasis on our society comes back to us as karmic blowback and undermines the very atmosphere so substantial to true health and healing.

VOXCLAMANTIS: Your analogy as per Cheney raises many issues about the (moral) efficacy of modern medicine. If the ticker had stopped, a lot more tickers would be still operating.

CHICANERY: Did you read my earliest post? I had the opportunity to observe TWO people with the same Cancer diagnosis elect TWO opposing routes and both died within weeks of each other. I also listened to informed oncologists discuss the treatment programs (regarding cancer) of various nations, and that GERMANY won the prize... for CURING the disease. The US approach like so much about the US is a form of militarism--kill (the disease) with chemicals or by cutting it away. It's VIOLENT. IT declares war on the body. MOST cancers come back within 5-10 years. That's documented. Maybe people will pay any price for the extra few years. To me that is NOT healing. The US is so earthbound in gross materialism that even the body is seen as a thing... I have personal knowledge of people with tumors (even a brain tumor!) cured by radical dietary changes. THAT is the approach I would personally advocate. This discussion came up because the ACCESS to medical intervention is already restricted, and apt to become more so for all the reasons we discuss in this forum as per the state of the US economy, general policies of the elites, scarcity of resources (this is only beginning), etc.

jsc May 28th, 2008 7:09 pm wrote:

"There is a bill in the Canadian Parliament to ban all nutritional and herbal supplements."

This is flatly unso. The legislation is intended to regulate the industry, and anyone who thinks that's a bad idea probably hasn't heard of the Showa-Denko genetically-modified tryptophan tragedy in the late 80s, in which 37 people (mostly in the US) died, and at least 1500 were permanently damaged, including a friend of mine. It is unclear why so many people who are opposed to GM food (as I am) also oppose legislation that would require manufacturers of GM supplements to label their products as such and demonstrate their safety before marketing them to the public.

realdim: Yes I know about the tryptophan. I had a friend who was controlling his manic-depression with it and had to return to drugs. The tryptophan was produced by GM bacteria but contaminated (by another bacteria or bacterial toxin) in the filtering process. It also occurred about 6 months before Prozac hit the market. Interestingly enough, the "tryptophan ban" has recently been lifted, and Prozac has recently, or is about to, go off patent. In more paranoid moments, I do not believe this was an accident. This was similar to the cyanide contamination of Tylenol and Tylenol was put back on the market as soon as they thought it was safe. Tylenol, of course, damages or destroys thousands of human livers each year because people overdose themselves. I've never heard of Tylenol being required to be a prescription drug.

Modern medicine is very good at diagnostics, emergency medicine and surgery (if you actually need it). Most of the rest is treating symptoms. If primary care medicine were based on nutritional and holistic practices, costs would plummet and there would be plenty of money for the big stuff.

Yes, products should be labelled appropriately. What the U.S. is doing is devising a system to which only large, well financed companies (i.e., Big Pharma) can afford to implement.

You can argue every which way you want but alternatives work and they are being banned throughout the world. I don't want to force anyone to switch from allopathic medicine but they now are trying to keep people from pursuing alternatives. And like it or not, unless systemic changes are made, national health insurance will destroy everything "not approved"

The right to control your body and what's done to it has implications far beyond abortion.

jsc -- 'the right to control your body and what's done to it has implications far beyond abortion'

EXACTLY SPOT ON and why people don't realize that is such a mystery to me

the way i see it, you can let doctors experiment on you, or you can experiment on yourself, i prefer the latter

jsc May 29th, 2008 3:30 pm wrote:

"You can argue every which way you want but alternatives work and they are being banned throughout the world. I don't want to force anyone to switch from allopathic medicine but they now are trying to keep people from pursuing alternatives. And like it or not, unless systemic changes are made, national health insurance will destroy everything 'not approved'"

You have fallen hook, line and sinker for the propaganda of the natural health products industry and their Big Pharma allies. They are often, in fact, one and the same. Your slam against "national health insurance" (which Canada doesn't actually have) and parroting of the "criminalising parents" talking point makes me wonder if someone's paying you to write this claptrap. Or maybe you're just another crystalsucker - science is great when it comes to poking fun at young-earthers and anti-abortionists, but not to be trusted when it comes to establishing safety and efficacy of, say, seahorse extract in the treatment of kidney ailments. If I had a kidney ailment, I'd want to know. If I were a seahorse, I'd REALLY want to know. Why don't you?

realdim: Wow. Crystalsucker? Never heard of one. I am someone who has been reading, studying, observing and experiencing natural healing methods for over 35 years. If I had cancer I would go here: www.dr-gonzalez.com
You can go wherever you want for treatment, but there's no need to insult people who disagree with you. Saying that national health care would be a disaster unless we fix systemic problems here is hardly slamming national health insurance. It's coming to grips with reality. Not wanting to be forced to pay for monopolies that gouge the public is not evil.

Yes, children in the U.S. are taken away from parents who make health care decisions that are "not approved". Even the siblings who are not sick are taken away. Doctors are losing their licenses for using "unapproved methods" even when their patients attest to the safety and effectiveness of the treatments. Once again: www.healthfreedomusa.org and www.wrightnewsletter.com

Much of the "new" info in nutrition--olive oil, omega 3 fats, trans fats, Vit D and MS, etc-- was known decades ago and those who spoke about it were called quacks by gov't shills and corporate shills who told people that there was nothing wrong with eating processed carbohydrate and encouraged people to fry foods in oils that break down into free radicals.

If I had a kidney ailment I'd reasearch everything I could. I'm not familiar with using herbs but it doesn't mean I don't think they're useful if you know what you're doing. I've just never had the need.

Alternative cures are often astounding in their simplicity and cost less by factors of 10-100 and often work independent of the diet and exercise changes necessary for health.

Check out d-mannose for UTIs. Or not

I have been an advocate of single payer universal coverage for years, well before my first major encounter with conventional medicine.

Siouxrose, you are telling Noah about the flood (with me and many others on Common Dreams) when you preach about true healing rather than treating symptoms, alternative medicine, the overall lack of health of American society, etc., but until you find yourself in the shoes of someone who needs the help of a surgeon or conventional hospital without the means to pay for the care, you might try being a little more compassionate and a lot less preachy.

I personally went for 15 years or longer without going to doctors and hospitals. A strong advocate of alternative medicine and health, my family maintains "health" homeopathically, through massage, Rolfing, chiropractic, acupuncture, biofeedback, etc., as well as by maintaining a 90% (or better) organic diet. Rarely do we even take a Tylenol. The lifestyle can be expensive depending on one's perspective, and our household income hovers at only around $35,000/year. Needless to say, we can't afford healthcare insurance.

So when I fell headfirst onto the frozen ground a year and a half ago while building our home, fear surged through my body as I jumped up screaming. My face and wrist were smashed. My first three thoughts were as follows: I am blind in my eye, I have a compound fracture in my arm, How am I going to pay for this? I'm not making this up to be dramatic or to prove a point. It's a screwed up system when a moment after a near death experience one of the foremost thoughts in you head is about the bills you know are about to pour in.

It was a long road healing from the trauma, and I'm still paying the surgery bills (total cost was near $26,000), though all of the doctors and both hospitals reduced my balances after a lot of hoop jumping with county, Medicade, and individual applications to each provider.

And now, just a month ago, after eating a very strict organic diet for well over a decade, and after routine massage, accupuncture, high quality supplements and general healthy living (i.e., prevention), I found out that I have a tumor eating the bone of my hip.

I just turned 40, have two children and have refused for years to work jobs outside of my value system (I am a grantwriter for a conservation nonprofit and am a permaculture designer, as well as do a lot of pro-bono community project organizing). I state these facts because I live my life in a way that seems right, at least by my value system, much like it seems you might as well.

But shit happens. And conventional doctors and hospitals should be available to all when shit happens. And treating that shit when it happens should not deplete our individual wealth, especially before it has been created. Poor health makes one's quality of life suffer. But so does debt.

This time around, I am less concerned with the Hows, as in "How am I going to pay for this?" This time my main concern has been being a part of my two daughters' lives for another forty years or more. How will I pay? I haven't a clue, and that sucks, but it is what it is.

So, Siouxrose, I agree with you about prevention and the poor health of our society (in mind, body and spirit). But sometimes even the most idealistic of us find ourselves in need of conventional medicine. When that happens, we need to know it's there for us so that we don't postpone diagnosis which only postpones treatment (whether conventional or alternative)... and all because of the cost.

It's a nasty, shameful cycle. I hope we, as a national community, can end it in the next couple of years.

jsc May 29th, 2008 9:12 pm wrote:

"You can go wherever you want for treatment, but there's no need to insult people who disagree with you."

You're right. And when I first logged in just now I thought I saw something about "arrogant" and "ignorant," which you apparently reconsidered, as I should have reconsidered my tone before I posted. I plead guilty on the first count, and apologise. Shall we continue?

"Saying that national health care would be a disaster unless we fix systemic problems here is hardly slamming national health insurance."

I disagree: I think that single-payer non-profit insurance IS the fix - not a perfect one, of course, but without it you might as well throw in the towel.

But that's not what you said. You said: "And like it or not, unless systemic changes are made, national health insurance will destroy everything 'not approved.'"

You base this on ... what?

You also said: "There is a bill in the Canadian Parliament to ban all nutritional and herbal supplements. It would also criminalize anyone who gave supplements to children, including parents!"

But there isn't. That canard (okay let's be clear, it's a bald-faced fucking LIE) is straight from the corporate playbook, in the form of a so-called news release. Seriously: go check it out.

And if you don't believe that Big Pharma has taken over the natural health products industry, then I have a pill that will make you as big and convincingly scary as a rhino on Viagra. Just sign up twenty of your friends and I'll give you a special discount.

Big as rhino, my friend, and Viagra is so yesterday and will be discontinued, even if it works for you, when the next bestseller (it's more natural! It's holistic! etc.) is unveiled in a flurry of TV ads.

Get it?

Don't you think there ought to be some empirical evidence for these claims, and don't you agree that dubbing them "natural" and insinuating that supposedly ordinary people will die if they can't choose this that or the other thing when they're really dying because no one sees a profit in managing their diabetes professionally, is immoral?

Don't you?

ravenchortle -- we do a lot of construction and have had our share of scary moments, i am glad you have mended from your fall . . . there is no doubt that alleopathic medicine is very useful in cases of acute trauma, which is always a hazard here in 3-D . . . like you say, the scariest part can be the bill . . . the hoop jumping can be so insulting, too . . .

as to your current health issue manifestation, i know there is lots of quack info out there, but you might find the following article helpful : www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi84.html

we are all breathing depleted uranium dust as it drifts down from the upper atmosphere . . . between the violence, the sanctions, and the poisoned environment, the doctors who have chosen to remain in Iraq to help their countrymen as best they can are truly heroes in my book . . .

In oregon if you work for a company Full time, the company must provide health Insurance. I am 59, I haven't had a job for three years, I can't get a job because it Costs to much for a Company To get insurance for me. my wife died, she may have lived a little longer, if would could have seen a doctor. I had to sell my house in April, I live off a small pension, the proceeds from the sale of my house, and still don't have health Insurance.

RAVENCHORTLE: I did respond to you but CD wouldn't let it post (website problems my computer stated). I prefaced my initial statement that if a condition was degenerative then the holistic approach might not apply. I did not mean to appear lacking in compassion. I was in a car wreck about 9 years ago and conventional medicine put a cast on my ankle that had I let it remain would have left me walking with a huge limp IF ever doing Yoga (my saving grace for maintaining some semblance of personal peace in an often crazy world) again. It was acupucture that shifted me.

Dr. Andrew Weil wrote the book, "Spontaneous Healing" in which he shares that modern medicine IS good for certain things, not for many other things and therein lies the rub. The medical version of a search for the holy grail surrounding anti-biotics, for instance, has resulted in actually speeding up the law of natural selection so that strains resistant to it all are now out there. Same with mosquitoes... they build up the toxic residue trying to kill these little beasts but ALWAYS somewhere in the league of 30% (and that's a low estimate) survive the poison spraying campaigns and arm their offspring with resistance.

In the final analysis, where we can use COMPLEMENTARY modalities, procedures and strategices tends to serve us better. I truly wish you an expedited HEALING on whatever path(s) you choose.

taoist tai chi has been a very good practice for me, i especially appreciate how adaptable it is to all kinds of physical and energetic conditions and the sense of 'opening non-physical space' which i get while doing it . . .

in practical terms i really torqued my knee a few years back and the proper body alignment which is strongly emphasized in tai chi is really all that stands between me and surgery . . .which i don't want and can't afford...

also the concept of the 'empty step' which is one of the fundamental tai chi principles is very powerful on many levels . . .

taoist tai chi is taught by volunteers and the class fees are very reasonable, there are active chapters in most cities and many smaller communities . . . when i am feeling very stressed (for example when our almost-dry hay is getting rained on and we are facing considerable and expensive crop damage) i practice 'tai chi in my mind' by mentally going through the 108-move long form . . . this is very calming and centering . . .