Cuba, will I get health care finally? Oh boy!

squeamish? No I was just trying to save you a trip to CUBA.

Yeah mrraven500 and hootowl are the same person, me. Sorry for the confusion I have a couple of computers and have forgotten my passwords. :(

Hollow Point point I never said *I* as a person was "killing" anyone anytime soon. My point is, is that if the powers that be keep marauding over the planet and stealing the poor's resources, that WE ALL together may have to fight back or be killed ourselves. Of course any sort of lone assassin is worse than useless.

It is most ironic to me that someone who has a login of "hollow point" (a type of bullet) is so squeamish and dismissive about what the future may bring.

RE: voxclamantis May 28th, 2008 1:14 pm

How true about the ingrained belief in, "American Exceptionalism"!
That thread, incidentally, runs thru both major parties.....nothing will really change until both parties are overthrown by a common surge from below....by real grass roots activism that will threaten the "upper status quo."
Scott Mcllelan's new book is nothing new, but treated as something we haven't heard for more than 7 years about the present administration....Yet, it's treated by the major networks as a "new revelation!"

How absurd!!

Yes, Robert Scheer is right on as usual...we are "inured" to the sufferings of others as long as, "we get our bounty of the world's resources, and nobody challenges us!"

Where is the outrage?

There really isn't any...

Our foreign policy thread(s) run similar within both parties...study our history and you'll see that is correct...just small differences in "posture."

Tom.M and the rest
I have worked with had as friends people that were Muslims. They have been to my house and me to theirs. Maybe it is a fear they have toward us and not so much hatred. There are other religions in the world that make Muslims look like about as much hate as the tooth fairy. and this is the truth as well.

Can I ask you, what country do you live in? That maybe a factor as well. Canada is a mixing pot of all religions and we work side by side live side by side and get along. Even blacks who visit from the US say it is so layed back they feel they can relax more than at home.
As for Condi, I would rather run into G Kahn in a dark ally than Condi. Her new live in ( women) must be working good for her she is dressing sharper.

Siouxrose May 28th, 2008 1:49 pm

"I apologize to those who have heard me state this before, I feel strongly that Condi Rice is the reincarnation of Genghis Kahn, back to reclaim where her empire-building (when empowered by a male body) came to a halt."

This was terrific!! And something only an idiot could turn into something racial.

Juliann May 28th, 2008 2:17 pm
"criticalthinktank: If you think Christians hate Muslims - wait'll you finally get it that MUSLIMS REALLY HATE ANYONE WHO'S NOT MUSLIM! I don't mean individuals - but as a group Muslims (males) are dangerous and have proven themselves to be so. I have Muslims in my family - but it wasn't until 9/11 and after that I learned how much Muslims en masse hate the rest of us.

Try not to be so politically correct. It's easier to get to the truth that way."

This is the literal truth.

mrraven/ hootowl /same person?
OK if it is your intention to kill someone go ahead I warned you not to do it and talk about it. The internet was a military invention do you think anything you do can't be undone? I hope you enjoy you stay in CUBA under the American plan. Since you have talked about it maybe someone is already looking into it. Time for school better kiss your mom and catch the bus.

Elroy: "Now, except for my strong-willed cousin in New Harbor (a former college professor and poet)there are no others to talk to..."

I am sorry to hear that your inverse of the Niemoller quote where he DIDN'T speak out and then there was no one left to save him is chilling echoed here. :(

"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out"

Although you are doing just the opposite the correct thing and speaking out the result is the same "no others to talk to..." Depressing...

clairech May 29th, 2008 9:04 am; "What to do? every bit counts…take the time….make the effort….be an example….talk to others…"

I still believe in this, but it's discouraging. For five years I've been messaging relatives from Maine to Florida to display outrage over the invasion and occupation of Iraq,including attachments. Except for a militant anti-war cousin in New Harbor, all others have eventually been turned off; don't want to hear about it. The latest to drop out is a New Hampshire niece who was active in the state's Democratic primary campaign this year, but now has found religion with an evangelist type who fills stadiums across the nation. She has embraced him, she says, because he is upbeat and keeps religion out of politics (her form of protest?). Gently, I suggested that if he is not at least displaying empathy for the enormous suffering of the Iraqi people caused by this occupation, then he may actually be ignoring Christ's teachings; thus, indirectly he is supporting the Bush Doctrine.

Well, that kind of talk was not well received, so in order not to lose this valued family member, I retreated with conciliatory follow-up messages. We're friends again. Another relative in North Carolina who for years sent me religious-inspirational messages, cut off contact completely a few months ago when I finally replied to one (about a syrupy Dolly Parton song) by bringing up the empathy question. I thought I had done so delicately, but she clearly took offence, and implied - also delicately - that I was among those traitors who want us to pull out of Iraq.

Now, except for my strong-willed cousin in New Harbor (a former college professor and poet)there are no others to talk to - except, of course, to people on this thread.

Yeah encrypting non critical messages I think is an excellent idea, anything to drain the resources of the empire.

presence_aka_Namaste Interesting, do you have more information on the NSA's scanning capability? It's hard for me to imagine that even the NSA that employs more mathematicians than the entire U.S. University system has the capability to scan all the terryabytes of information uploaded to the net daily and then do a meaningful analysis using people to sort through all the hits, but I am certainly open to that idea if you can show me some sources.

I'd also be interested in how those parallel techniques work if you a link, thanks.

I believe many share "atheist's" feelings on "we don't know what to do". Perhaps we need a combination of something small and something big. I recently nailed up an "Impeach Bush and Cheney" sign on a tree in my front yard that is visible to all who drive/walk by. To date I have had approximately about a dozen people stop by to knock on my door and tell me they appreciate my sign and the courage it took to put it up. Some of the people who stopped by I knew, and others were strangers. Some stopped to get out of their car, some to get off their bikes. In the brief encounters with these people a sense of community was developed. If millions more would put up signs, how many more conversations with our neighbors and citizens would there be? How much energy could be created for positive change? The only thing that discourages me is why so many see my putting up a sign as a courageous act. Since when does exercising your first amendment right of free speech denouncing our leaders for treasonous acts against our constitution become courageous? If this is the sentiment of most Americans it may be difficult to get them to act on a larger scale. But I remain hopeful.

One reason I remain hopeful is because of the inspiration I receive from people I encounter in my daily affairs and from the community of soul mates I have found here at commondreams. I would like to thank RichM and MiMiCcS for their insightful posts, to Namaste (I believe his login name has changed) for his intelligent and witty postings, to Sioxrose for her compassion and humanity, to Kem Patrick and Rebel Farmer who have been teaching me much and to the countless others who give me strength to carry on. I would love to break bread, or drink a beer, with one and all. The more we discuss and learn from each other, the more solutions will appear to us.

See also:

"Using steganography to embed a message in a pornographic image and posting it to a Usenet newsgroup is the cyberspace equivalent of a dead drop. To everyone else, it's just a picture. But to the receiver, there's a message in there waiting to be extracted.

To make it work in practice, the terrorists would need to set up some sort of code. Just as Hanssen knew to collect his package when he saw the chalk mark, a virtual terrorist will need to know to look for his message. (He can't be expected to search every picture.) There are lots of ways to communicate a signal: timestamp on the message, an uncommon word in the subject line, etc. Use your imagination here; the possibilities are limitless.

The effect is that the sender can transmit a message without ever communicating directly with the receiver. There is no e-mail between them, no remote logins, no instant messages. All that exists is a picture posted to a public forum, and then downloaded by anyone sufficiently enticed by the subject line (both third parties and the intended receiver of the secret message).

So, what's a counter-espionage agency to do? There are the standard ways of finding steganographic messages, most of which involve looking for changes in traffic patterns. If Bin Laden is using pornographic images to embed his secret messages, it is unlikely these pictures are being taken in Afghanistan. They're probably downloaded from the Web. If the NSA can keep a database of images (wouldn't that be something?), then they can find ones with subtle changes in the low-order bits. If Bin Laden uses the same image to transmit multiple messages, the NSA could notice that. Otherwise, there's probably nothing the NSA can do. Dead drops, both real and virtual, can't be prevented.

Why can't businesses use this? The primary reason is that legitimate businesses don't need dead drops. I remember hearing one company talk about a corporation embedding a steganographic message to its salespeople in a photo on the corporate Web page. Why not just send an encrypted e-mail? Because someone might notice the e-mail and know that the salespeople all got an encrypted message. So send a message every day: a real message when you need to, and a dummy message otherwise. This is a traffic analysis problem, and there are other techniques to solve it. Steganography just doesn't apply here.

Steganography is good way for terrorist cells to communicate, allowing communication without any group knowing the identity of the other. There are other ways to build a dead drop in cyberspace. A spy can sign up for a free, anonymous e-mail account, for example. Bin Laden probably uses those too. "

http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0109a.html#6

The chances that the NSA has the manpower to monitor all images on the Internet are vanishingly small. File this information away somewhere in the back of your mind as it may be useful in the future.

Of course one should always be cautious but IMO one should ALSO always use the best technology available to defeat the empire.

Note that these techniques are ALREADY being used by "terrorists" (another mans freedom fighter) who are notoriously security conscious if we are to have a successful revolution we ought not to be luddites and ought to use the best tools to win IMO:

" USA Today reported on Tuesday that bin Laden and others "are hiding maps and photographs of terrorist targets and posting instructions for terrorist activities on sports chat rooms, pornographic bulletin boards and other websites, U.S. and foreign officials say."

The technique, known as steganography, is the practice of embedding secret messages in other messages — in a way that prevents an observer from learning that anything unusual is taking place. Encryption, by contrast, relies on ciphers or codes to scramble a message.

The practice of steganography has a distinguished history: The Greek historian Herodotus describes how one of his cunning countrymen sent a secret message warning of an invasion by scrawling it on the wood underneath a wax tablet. To casual observers, the tablet appeared blank.

Both Axis and Allied spies during World War II used such measures as invisible inks — using milk, fruit juice or urine which darken when heated, or tiny punctures above key characters in a document that form a message when combined.

Modern steganographers have far-more-powerful tools. Software like White Noise Storm and S-Tools allow a paranoid sender to embed messages in digitized information, typically audio, video or still image files, that are sent to a recipient.

The software usually works by storing information in the least significant bits of a digitized file — those bits can be changed without in ways that aren't dramatic enough for a human eye or ear to detect. One review, of a graphical image of Shakespeare before and after a message was inserted, showed JPEG files that appeared to have no substantial differences.

Steghide embeds a message in .bmp, .wav and .au files, and MP3Stego does it for MP3 files. One program, called snow, hides a message by adding extra whitespace at the end of each line of a text file or e-mail message."

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/02/41658

Hollow point Your ignorance is vast. For starters I was talking about email between individuals. If you send an encrypted message via steganography no one knows it's encrypted because the steganography hides it WITHIN a image attached to the message substituting the message itself for the least significant bit within the image leaving it's appearance unaltered:

"Steganography is the art and science of writing hidden messages in such a way that no one apart from the sender and intended recipient even realizes there is a hidden message. By contrast, cryptography obscures the meaning of a message, but it does not conceal the fact that there is a message. Today, the term steganography includes the concealment of digital information within computer files. For example, the sender might start with an ordinary-looking image file, then adjust the color of every 100th pixel to correspond to a letter in the alphabet — a change so subtle that someone who isn't actively looking for it is unlikely to notice it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography

So far so far starters your message is concealed both by it's invisibility and by the shear number of messages involved with images, then above and beyond that if you encrypt the message within the image with a strong enough key even the NSA using a parallel processing super computer would take years to break the message due to the unfactorable qualities of the prime number used to encrypt the message:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy

P.S. If you have any ANY files on your computer that you don't want the government to see I'd recomend open source truecrypt. Open source means the source code is freely available (you can compile it yourself on yuor own computer if truly paranoid) meaning it is constantly reviewed by other programmers meaning a backdoor by the government or hackers is impossible:

http://www.truecrypt.org/

See also for a demonstration:

http://www.svrops.com/svrops/articles/camera.htm

This "official" misbehavior or criminal activity is not a mere coincidence! This is part and parcel of the "Shock Doctrine" by which Disaster Capitalism works. The methods advocated by the Chicago University Graduate School of Economics are such that "anything goes" when it comes to putting neo cons into control of any national government. The only difference is, however, is that now our current Administration honchos under the guidance of Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, Armitage, Perle and the hosts of other conspirators are applying those methods to turn the whole world into its privatized domain. When you hear anyone sing the praises of "The Chicago School of Economics" BEWARE! Want to learn more? Read Naomi Klein's book "Shock Doctrine."

This "official" misbehavior or criminal activity is not a mere coincidence! This is part and parcel of the "Shock Doctrine" by which Disaster Capitalism works. The methods advocated by the Chicago University Graduate School of Economics are such that "anything goes" when it comes to putting neo cons into control of any national government. The only difference is, however, is that now our current Administration honchos under the guidance of Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, Armitage, Perle and the hosts of other conspirators are applying those methods to turn the whole world into its privatized domain. When you hear anyone sing the praises of "The Chicago School of Economics" BEWARE! Want to learn more? Read Naomi Klein's book "Shock Doctrine."

This "official" misbehavior or criminal activity is not a mere coincidence! This is part and parcel of the "Shock Doctrine" by which Disaster Capitalism works. The methods advocated by the Chicago University Graduate School of Economics are such that "anything goes" when it comes to putting neo cons into control of any national government. The only difference is, however, is that now our current Administration honchos under the guidance of Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, Armitage, Perle and the hosts of other conspirators are applying those methods to turn the whole world into its privatized domain. When you hear anyone sing the praises of "The Chicago School of Economics" BEWARE! Want to learn more? Read Naomi Klein's book "Shock Doctrine."

I have stopped submitting comments to Truthdig, Huffington Post, and all other blog sites which are rife with character assassination and vile language. Common Dreams appears to be free of this fascistic infection.

It is time that America takes a hard look in the mirror. We have never been that mythical nation of truth and virtue that our schoolbook propaganda has convinced us we are. This is a nation founded on a beautiful set of principles that have never actually been followed. It is a nation that has genocide and slavery as part of its foundational history, and yet refuses to deal with these facts. It is a nation that is willing to embrace torture and illegal, murderous warfare, as long as we don't have to face too directly the reality of it. In brief, America is not the home of freedom, liberty, and bravery. It is just another country, and one that can easily slip into a spiral of fascism and war crimes if its citizens are not slapped into consciousness. Remember that Germany before the Nazis was a country widely admired for its philosophers, music, science, and other great cultural achievements. How quickly a country's reputation can change, and it can happen anywhere. Wake up America! Stop the self-congratulatory dreaming and take a look at what we have become. It is late, but not too late to stop the descent into horror. But we must begin by taking stock of the difference between our founding principles and what we have become. Our history is not encouraging.

Those of us who are informed and disgusted need to keep doing everything in our power to A- make sure everyone else knows and cannot escape what is going on and B- end all the crimes that are being committed in our names.

http://www.ryanhartman.wordpress.com

Thank you Vox for your good words really have a peacefull day. We can beat this thing together!

Outrage will follow enrage when most Americans lose their jobs, SUV's,savings and homes. This will occur soon. Only close-to-home events matter to USA'ers Besides, the rest of us are rage-fatigued. Americans don't learn by moral rules or example but by defeat. Bring it on!

This is an election year, and there is allot of legislation that awaites a vote in both Houses of Congress. this legislation sits there, because they can't get enough votes to overide a Bush Veto. One bill in the Senate would Ban the use of Cluster-Bombs. Send an Email, or Phone Your Senator, ask them to pass this Legislation. Your Email, or Phone Call can make difference.

I agree with another poster – good comments above. I have learned a lot here. clairech – thank you – your posting is going to be taped to my bathroom mirror and oh a few other places. Might I add to "reduce, reuse and recycle" .... SHARE. We each can do a lot in our own homes, workplaces, communities. And it DOES make a difference. Thank you all.

what to do? every bit counts...take the time....make the effort....be an example....talk to others.....

go to a peace vigil, start one.
shop at the farmer's market
grow a vegetable garden
eat less meat
meditate
walk, bike
don't drive for 1 day, 2 days, 3 days a week
plug the stereo, tv, computer into a power strip and really turn it OFF.
hang clothes out to dry
reduce, reuse then recycle
buy local food, services, products
divest of the corporate marketplace
if you drive, stay under 55 mph.
think about the consequences of every purchase and behavior.
stop paying war taxes
face the sun and breath deeply
smell the flowers
don't fly
take an art class, welding, music
read a book or two
turn down the heat and up the AC
ask questions
don't idle the car motor. 10 seconds and it's more gas than restarting it.
join a local group working on something you're interested in. anything, get involved.

it all has to start somewhere and with someone.
be brave, take the time, bring a friend.

we need to build the communities to sustain ourselves locally.

Anyone remember this song ?

Merry Minuet
by the Kingston Trio from the Hungry i LP 1959

They're rioting in Africa (whistling)
They're starving in Spain (whistling)

There's hurricanes in Flo-ri-da (whistling)
And Texas needs rain

The whole world is festering with unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles

Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch
AND I DON'T LIKE ANYBODY VERY MUCH!!

But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud
For man's been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud
And we know for certain that some lovely day Someone will set the spark off
AND WE WILL ALL BE BLOWN AWAY!!

They're rioting in Africa (whistling)
There's strife in Iran
What nature doesn't so to us
Will be done by our fellow "man"

In over 40 years, you think we'd have learned something....

hootowl:
do you think something you look up on google can't be undone by those who want to know what you are saying? An encrypted message attracts even more attention. This web site isn't doing a thing to Bush or any of the above mentioned. Over 60% of the population in the USA are against Bush on issues and that is printed in the papers. Don't you feel that would give him a wake up call? Has it made a change? NO IT HAS NOT. If a person was crazy and wanted to plan something writing about your intentions on the internet is the last thing you want to do. I would suggest if you are planning something you maybe want to rethink those intentions as the WWW knows about them and HLS. Just trying to save you some jail time.

Hmmmm best discussion here in a while I sense the natives are getting restless which is a good thing. Remember folks if you want to communicate over the internet via email to say things that you don't want the fascists to read you have a couple of options:

1. Encrypt your emails using GPG and public keys (do a google search for more details)

2. Hide your encrypted messages in an an image attachment using steganography (again do a google search).

Find some meatspace friends who share your views who you have known for a long time and start to plan. Good luck!!!!!!!

civil behavior clap, clap, clap
juliann, Good German much?

Stiv Whitman spot on I often think these thoughts just before sleep myself. I don't think the world will put up with us much longer, Iran would be our "Poland" for sure.

deang

Very true and guilty as charged BTW. Why are we so much more passive than the people of say Venezuela when we have some much more literacy and resources at our disposal?

"#
atheist May 28th, 2008 4:51 pm

Robert Scheer forgot a third possible reason for our lack of outrage … WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO !!!

I'm always amazed by the number of great articles on web sites like Common Dreams, but the lack of leadership and action. It's nice that Scheer is writing, maybe he should step beyond that and lead some sort of action. Maybe he doesn't do that because he doesn't know what to do either.
"

Perhaps a good first start would be a link to an encrypted chat system or some such? Certainly the link to sidebar items with something like suggested actions, or groups to contact would be VERY helpful. CD staff instead of tuning your censorship algorthms how about links to ways we get together and DO something? Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

"I apologize to those who have heard me state this before, I feel strongly that Condi Rice is the reincarnation of Genghis Kahn, back to reclaim where her empire-building (when empowered by a male body) came to a halt."

I hope you are kidding, if not cuckoo, cuckoo... Guess what black women can be evil and white guys can be good, I know that's too complicated for some people to wrap their minds around but try to deal, OK?

Hint we need clarity and sanity to fight the fascist beast.

Daniel David who keeps funding the war and the torture chambers, Dimocraps? Either you just aren't paying attention to what thev actually DO, or you are a paid shill I can't figure out which one.

tj I have a really different take on it, if we are under actual FASCISM as this article implies than those 200 million guns may be the ONLY thing that keeps us from getting gassed and shoveled into the ovens. What else would we resist fascists with, blowing bubbles and singing happy songs of denial?

Sioixrose I've got your women's "intuitive sentience" right here:

"As further proof that women are not necessarily more squeamish than men in condoning such practices, the report offers examples of sexual and religious denigration of the mostly Muslim prisoners by female interrogators carrying out an official policy of "invasion of space by a female." In one recorded instance observed by startled FBI agents, a female interrogator was seen with a prisoner "bending his thumbs back and grabbing his genitals … to cause him pain.""

********

One of those top officials, who stands revealed in the inspector general's report as approving the torture policy, is Condoleezza Rice, who in her capacity as White House national security adviser turned away the concerns of then-Attorney General John D. Ashcroft as to the severe interrogation measures being employed. Rice, as ABC-TV reported in April, chaired the top-level meetings in 2002 in the White House Situation Room that signed off on the CIA treatment of prisoners — "whether they would be slapped, pushed, deprived of sleep or subjected to simulated drowning, called water boarding. …" According to the report, the former academic provost of Stanford University came down on the side of simulated drowning."

How about BOTH men and women are capable of incredible acts of BOTH tender love, and savage evil, and that we ALL need to do better resisting savage evil regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation or chosen gender expression, creed, religion (or lack thereof), etc?
Lets evolve as HUMANS with tender on this physical Earth together, OK?

#
atheist May 28th, 2008 4:51 pm

>>>Robert Scheer forgot a third possible reason for our lack of outrage … WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO !!!

I'm always amazed by the number of great articles on web sites like Common Dreams, but the lack of leadership and action. It's nice that Scheer is writing, maybe he should step beyond that and lead some sort of action. Maybe he doesn't do that because he doesn't know what to do either.<<<

Yeah, I am outraged! But just how many times do I have to contact my 'liberal' elected Rep Maizy Hirono, or Senator Akaka, and get the pat on the head before I go back to my books and dogs? At least I have some control over them, which is more then I can say about my government, much less my environment outside my own yard. The military assaults are never ending and no official in Hawaii ever saw a bad idea if it was accompanied by enough dollars, or promises there of!

Juliann
I thought it was your comment re; Muslims. I have been married to a Turkish Muslim for 25 years, harmless. Of course they are a secular democracy not an Islamic state. Why in the world you thought I was telling you how the hell to think, Yikes, so there is out rage it appears we have been taking it out on poster V poster for quite a time now. I am in and out and scrolling and as busy as I am sure you are so I skim, I miss sometimes I am human.

Come, come Robert Scheer. You know as well as I, outrage only exists in a humane society.

Hello Big Raven -

A thousand pardons if I have offended a Native American. I admit that my assertion was based on hearsay, not scholarship. I have read a number of accounts, all written by white people (such as Teddy Roosevelt) in an era of genocide and land acquisition, about the customs of bloodthirsty savages, and I know that they are not to be believed. Neither, I think, is the current myth of the happy primative, living in harmony with nature and exempt from the rule of aggression and cruelty, to be taken at face value. There is credible archeological evidence that the Clovis people wiped out the large mammals and predators on our (your) continent - every last one of them - much in the same way my great-granddaddy wiped out the bison from the windows of railroad cars. My point was not that Indians, or women, are the source of human malignancy. It was that we share an evolutionary disease. We have something in common. We are humans, and we are at once magnificent and corrupt. I know that my people have been savage. But I suspect yours have been also.

I have no excuses to make for the outrages my (white) race has visited upon yours. I just finished reading Leslie Marmon Silko's apocalyptic novel: Almanac of the Dead (I met her last month) and I am convinced that you (Indians) will have your wish: the return of your lands. It will be accomplished by the spirits of the earth, purely because white people don't believe in them and therefore have no army to send against them.

Best regards

Vox

I suppose the summation of the moment is -- "don't vote along major party lines in November" and to "prepare our families and ourselves for the worst".

So, turn yourself Green as the Hulk Superhero -- go off the grid completely, if possible. Breathe slowly and keep healthy, for this is gonna be one long, bumpy ride.

Just remember, the time will come for "All good men to come to the aid of his country". For our country resides not in the geography of the land nor in the wealth of it's posessions, but in the heart of it's patriots.

Peace and Bright Blessings...

The outrage in all over this web site and that is as far as it will go and Bush and the rest now it so they will do what they want

Well, as usual Bob, you do spur discussion. Thank you for following up on this!

If just one of the FBI agents had done his or her sworn duty and arrested a torturer instead of misprisoning crimes, the trajectory would have changed dramatically. These slimy cowards covered their dainty posteriors by documentation, but refused to arrest people they knew to be committing serious crimes. Had they performed the job we pay them to do, the government would have been forced to either dismiss the charges and admit that it sanctioned war crimes, or permit a public trial that could have led all the way up the chain of command.

Thanks Mimi, that was another relevant and precise encapsulation of events and thought.

I must admit though not retired quite yet a lot of my time has been spent poring over books, websites, journals, and all sorts of rags. I too have come to the very same conclusion you do when you say "Everything you are told must be doubted, which leads to questions, and thus leads to truth."

Another spot on assessment is "our educational system has raised a generation of people taught not to question authority, and to trust in their religious and political leaders. They are conditioned with myths to believe we are a nation that only does good, and that the government has sufficient checks and balances to prevent abuse of power. Our media is free they say, look at Watergate. Conspiracy in such a system is impossible, so they say."

I thank ALL the posters on these CD threads. You are a very enlightened, thoughtful group.

Let me ask something I have been musing. How do we get together less than anonymously and begin the movement we so desperately need? There are some real movers and shakers amongst us. How could we do it?

The illusions of our republic are gone. We can see a vicious government and system we have put upon the world.

Where is the outrage? Exchanged for American Way of Life! Which of course is not negotiable

What to do? Read your history. Many examples on how real "change" occurs there. It generally requires a critical mass of truth to ignite mass outrage. Personal outrage is powerless to effect change. There is nothing to do, but to spread the truth in the hope a critical mass is reached, and hopefuly change will be peaceful. The roar of the lion may be enough to frighten most predators away.

Change will not come by voting. If tyrants thought change would be possible by voting, it would be illegal. But they control who you are able to vote for, and they count the votes. Stalin once said, it's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. The 2000 and 2004 elections showed this to be true.

Outrage and change will not occur if the masses continue to believe in the myths. Mark Twain once said, "Those who do not read the Newspaper are uninformed, those that do are misinformed". Today we have Faux and CNN. We have a lot more misinformed people today, who are ignorant of the fact that much of what they believe to be true is not.

The ignorance of the ignorant of their ignorance is the biggest obstacle to getting them to discover the truth. They believe they already know the truth, and anyone who does not agreee is either stupid or a godless terrorist. Minds are shut.

To make matters worse, truth can only be discovered individually, by doubting what they believe to be true, and everything they are told. Picking and chosing your truth based on internet articles or other peoples opinions that seem to fit your own ideology, is not the way. Everything you are told must be doubted, which leads to questions, and thus leads to truth. Thats what the mass of grey matter between our ears is for. Yet our educational system has raised a generation of people taught not to question authority, and to trust in their religous and political leaders. They are conditioned with myths to believe we are a nation that only does good, and that the government has sufficient checks and balances to prevent abuse of power. Our media is free they say, look at Watergate. Conspiracy in such a system is impossible, so they say.

And many people have lost the ability to think, or are too tired surviving to be able to do so. I needed 9/11 to overcome my ignorance and my retirement gave me the time for the research. I researched it with an open mind, and it finally led to only one possible conclusion. Knowing the reality of 9/11 and how far it is from the official version and the reality of the masses, opened up all kinds of questions on other official myths, many of which I have found to be based on lies by ommission and /or distortion, and is some cases outright fabrication.

Our belief in these previous myths led to our leaders being emboldened enough to attempt 9/11. Our acceptance of this event, which surely deserves outrage, will guarantee something even worse is yet to come.

Of course, nobody knows with 100% certainty what is the truth but the truly insane. Not all of what I believed last month or last year, do I believe to be true today. As you learn more, you may find some adjustments are required. So while we may never know truth in it's purest form, we can recognize lies, and by exposing the lies, we can move closer to truth.

But the elite have many ways to prevent the truth from being spread, and they contol MSM and even many of the blogs today. Suspecting your government of harbouring Communists following WW II led one to getting labelled as a McCarthyite, and ignored. Question Zionism or some minor aspect of the holocaust, and you were an anti-semite, and ignored, and in some countries sent to jail. Question governments involvement in crimes such as JFK, RFK and MLK assasinations, and you got labelled as a conspiracy theorist and ignored. It has continued today. Question 9/11 and they shout, Conspiracy Theorist!. Question Globalization, and Henry Kissinger says you are a Terrorist.

Now we have the Homegrown Terrroism and Violent Radicalization act passed by our "Democratic" Congress. McCarthy has returned under another name. The Communists he wanted to root out in the 50's are now Fascists. The tables have turned. Today Patriotism is considered treasonous.

"In time of universal deceipt, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act"

Quote attributed to the authour of 1984, known to most as George Orwell. The elites vision of the NWO at that time was described 1984, he died 1 year after it was published.

xyz -- "I think most americans are outraged. Most americans want us out of Iraq. Most americans want national health care."

Yeah ... most Americans also want 'world peace' (whirled peas) ... the problem is they dont want it enough. Unless mass hunger sets in and thousands of Americans keep getting killed and unless the situation is desperate Americans will not act. In other words the conditions are not ripe for a revolution of any sort. Hurting, killing, murdering and maiming others does not stir our conscience enough to act.

The USA standard of living is certain to drop continually. Maybe no outrage, but lots of RAGE in our futures. Maybe even civil war?

Conservatives and conservative "christains" prove Darwinism.

Nothing in the theory says a species can't die out.

The American people are fat, dumb, and lazy; greedy, irrational, and grossly out of touch with reality. The sheeple need to be led. I have to guess not much different that the germans under Hitler or Italians under Mussolini or the Japanese in WWII.

Morality ethics and religion are simply sometimes convenient constructs and sometimes profitable for some.

If a Chinese man is smarter and more productive than an "American"; just who is going to be walking to work and who is going to be driving his car? McCain says don't worry the market will work it all out. It just may; and I worry a lot.

Seems pathological liars make pretty good politicians. (anyone think of shrub?)

The road to hell is paved by republicans with massive cost over-runs.

"When I think back at all the lies I learned in high school; It's a wonder I can think at all."-- P. Simon (probably written at the time of another "american" atrocity/genocide-- Vietnam.)

--George Evans MA USA

.
The American people have lost their strong national character. They are without passion. Their senses are dulled (you can debate the causes......).

Our nation is two hundred years old, and has already started to decline, at an accelerated rate.

Outrage?

Outrage is busy texting on the cellphone.

Revolution?

Revolution is waiting for god to provide.

Lets' get real. The wheels have come off and we are in the process of total meltdown. AS opposed to years past when people got off their butts BEFORE things got so bad in order to change things we have become lazy and self absorbed.

1% of us will be unable to change what needs to happen. Do what you can to prepare for the worst. Katrina was your reference point for what the government plans to do to make changes.

The lack of what to do will be solved soon. Everyone is talking about it but no one can stop it now. It will take its natural course. The most important thing now is to push for clean energy. Without a MAJOR program to stop carbon emissions we won't need to worry about how we are going to change government for the better. Extinction will take care of it.

Turce: Your response to my posting is humorous for a few reasons. First – I did not use the word "all" (you did). Second – don't tell me what to say or think (thank you). Third – my posting was in response to criticalthinktank who wrote "Christians especially HATE Muslims" and "Jews hate Muslims as well." Is there a reason why you did not attack criticalthinktank when s/he is the one who while not using the word ALL implied as much?

When Muslim males come out en masse and declare that they are peace loving and prove it through their actions and join with everyone else to work toward peace, that is the moment when I will retract my words.

Where is the outrage? Watching American Idol and working 3 jobs to pay off credit card debts.

Reading a report, 500 pages long, about the bureaucratic sign-off of various agencies on torture, well, it's not light reading. My second observation is the US government and all it agencies will probably need to be dismantled by foreign powers, just as Nazi Germany was. Our citizens, no different than Nazis at this point, will all be viewed as the German people were long after WW2, with disgust and horror. Future historians, if indeed there is a future, will wonder why no one in the US attempted anything but sat back just like the German people did, fearfully, if not one of the party cheerleaders or beneficiaries of war.

Dismantling a nation state is a big job. It will probably be after a period of disintegration, war, and fascism--another decade of this seems quite likely. Who will have the job of carving up the US after its fall? Will it be China? Europe?

The Nuremberg trials were really nothing compared to what we might expect for the United States should it get its just deserts.

The trials alone could take a decade. Capturing Bush and Cheney once they've hit the road for Paraguay or parts unknown could be harder than catching Pinochet. And some of these people, at the top, they've probably thought about their escape carefully. The Bush family owns over 400,000 acres in Paraguay. Cheney has moved 10-20 million dollars into Inflation Protected Euro funds.

I see Monbiot, all by his scrawny self, attempted to arrest Bolton! Ha Ha. Next time, get at least a dozen people with baseball bats and stun guns and take out the guards first. Citizens can make an arrest only if they can take down the security guards. Good luck!

I think most americans are outraged. Most americans want us out of Iraq. Most americans want national health care. We have a elite class of government officials and business associates more interested in their own welfare than following the will of the american people.

We were lied to about Iraq, we protested, the elections of 2000 and 2004 were stolen, we couldn't do anything. Our leaders will not impeach or bring to justice the torturers, the liers and killers.

The government is now out of the hands of the people. The people are apparently irrelevant to the well funded elected officialdom. We are a joke but we suffer for the failures of our leaders. What are we to do?

HELIX 6: As far as WE goes, only a portion of the US is as anesthetized as you say. In the beginning when the lies were flying, more than half apparently could not see through the dense atmosphere of lies. Those given to vengeance (after 911) needed a target, never mind it was a false one. But people ARE waking up and the soporific argument doesn't work for those who are trying to find answers and become the pro-active agents of catharsis for this nation. Some of those are here in this CD "community."

RICH M: Do you always have to be so right? (LOL)

ANDREW. HERMAN: Your point is well taken and probably why so much religious and secular rhetoric is directed at establishing the OTHER as ENEMY. Without dividing there'd be precious little conquering.

JEEVEE: Thank you for stating the spiritual truth.

Hey, Peacegurl, don't waste your time weeping for your country. Get together with some others and change it.

A British journalist tried to make a citizen's arrest on Bolton. Why don't Americans get together and, en masse, arrest Bush and the morons who support him.

Sure beats weeping.

www.dangerouscreation.com

Where is the outrage? I'm a baby boomer,a 60's activist, I have the outrage, but singularlynone of us can change the system, it takes all of us, one act a time. This is not the world I thought I grew up in, yet don't believe for one minute that I am taken in by the American version of propaganda and oh yes the so called "liberal media". Look to K street, look to the lobbyists who write the bills that pass through congresss look to the Carlyle group and the four others like it. Remember that the Bush Family, Prince Kandahar, James Baker, Tony Blair, the Saud Family and many others are HUGE players. I am not quite sure my pocketbook, or those of many others here can have the ability to force changes as they see fit, they do for own purposes and greed...They own us. Perhaps this may be a bit simplistic, but I use the power of the petition. There are many times it has not worked, but there are many times that it has, like stopping the drilling in Anwar, those I feel really good about and have a sense of accomplishment. There are individual responsibilities that we can all take to make the small changes that are available to us, but hell, something is better than nothing and at least I don't feel like I have given up. I hate what's going on. The world has gone mad, and I' don't mean angry, and I yearn for sanity, but have trouble finding it.
Hell, change a light bulb, sign a petition, just don't sit there and complain.

As far as the jhadists, rogue dictators and any non-democratic governments go, they prey on the uneducated, purposefully, close off the internet, keep them starving and poor and voila! CONTROL of the masses. Hmmm, we've seen that before. Keep them dependent. I think we have all seen this all too often and it continues. Corruption is all too pervasive and no one is being held accountable.

The Israeli/Palestinian issue is thousands of years old. Realistically, I doubt there is a reasonble answer/solution. Arafat NEVER intended to agreee to the accords. Don't be fooled by middle east rhetoric and zealotry. Understand that there are two fatwahs, one for Western consumption and Eastern consumption. There are fatwahs who will recognize the State of Israel (for western consumption) and the Middle Eastern ones that are pervasive throug out the middle east, that they will NEVER recognize the right of Israel to exist. When all is said and done until we can have biofuels as a ubiquitous commodity (sawgrass and not corn), we will not be free of the stanglehold that the middle east has on for fossil fuels, lest we forget about dear Hugo in Venezuela and all the unrest in Africa. Too bad Israel is not the land of fossil fuels that we need until our state and federal governments "allow" us to be green and independent, not too mention all the jobs that this industry would create. However, I applaud the states that are NOT waiting for our federal government to get off thir collective asses and do something right for the common good...we all we know that ain't gonna happen anytime soon. So it it is up to us, one at a time. IMHO, we are the only ones that can deliver ourselves out of this morass.

Where is the outrage? I'm a baby boomer,a 60's activist, I have thee outrage, but singularly I CANNOT change the system, it takes all of us. One act a time. This is not the world I thought I grew up iin, yet don't believe for one minute that I am taken in by the American version of propaganda and oh yes the so=called "liberal media". Look to K street, look to the lobbyists who write the bills that pass through congresss look to the Carlyle group and the four others like it. Remember that the Bush Family, Prince Kandahar, James Baker, Tony Blair, the Saud Family are HUGE players. I am not quite sure my pocketbook, or those of many others here can have the ability to force changes as they see fit, for their own greed...They own us. Perhaps this may be a bit simplistic, but I use the power of the petition. There are many times it has not worked, but there are many times that it has and those I feel really good about. There is individual responsibility that we can all take to make the small changes that are available to us, but hell, something is better than nothing and at least I don't fee like I have given up. I hate what's going on. The world has gone mad, and I' don't mean angry, and I yearn for sanity, but have trouble finding it.
Hell, change a light bulb, sign a petition, just don't sit there and complain.

As far as the jhadists, rogue dictators and any non-democratic governments go, they prey on the uneducated, purposefully, close off the internet, keep them starving and poor and voila! CONTROL of the masses. Hmmm, we've seen that before. Keep them starving and dependent. I think we have all seen this all too often.

The Israeli/Palestinian issue is thousands of years old. Realistically, I doubt there is a reasonble answer/solution. Arafat NEVER intened to agreee to the accords. Don't be fooled by middle east rhetoric and zealotry. Understand that there are two fatwahs, one for Western consumption, there are fatwahs who will recognize the State of Israel (for western consumption) and the Middle Eastern one that is pervasivethrought the middle east, that they will NEVER recognize the right of Israel to exist. When all is said and done until we can have biofuels as a ubiquitous commodity (sawgrass and not corn), too bad Israel is not the land that has the fossil fuels that we need until our state and federal governments allow us to be green. However, I applaud the states that are NOT waiting for our federal goernment to get off thir collective asses and do something right for the common good...welll we know that airn't gonna happen anytime soon.

voxclamantis..."..we need to give up the absurd notion of American exceptionalism".
Zoya........"we are definitely barbarians"

Spot on.A look at the history of the 20th century,alone,would let us know what we are.

Mao Tse Tung managed to murder about 70 million of his own people;Stalin slaughtered about 50 million;Pol Pot about 2 million;many,if not most,of Africas'dictators had no qualms in mass murder;South American dictators....the list would not leave too many countries without blood on their hands.

And this was just the 20th century.

All this slaughter could not happen without the assistance of large parts of the population,mainly because of fear of being the next victim.The absurdity is that millions can be coerced by a handful of sociopaths.This is where the main information stream to the general public must be clear of lies and propaganda,with an open debate on the issues that matter.

To Orez-Eno:
You said it all...Genocide and greed are at the foundation of this country.And don't even start me on racism and scapegoating.
For outrage take away TV, Ipods and the absurdity of reality TV...people will take to the streets!
If Katrina,the lies of the Bush regime, stealing elections,and the screwing over of most Americans doesn't hit a nerve how could torture be expected to? I weep for this country.

It's not exactly that Americans "love the comforts of Empire," or that they "don't give a flying f*ck", as some responders have written. Much closer to the mark has been atheist (4:51 pm) who wrote, with elegant simplicity, "Robert Scheer forgot a third possible reason for our lack of outrage … WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO !!!"

Our political system developed with everyone believing that candidates for public office must inevitably respond to the wishes of their constituents. But a funny thing happened -- it turns out they devised ingenious ways of getting around this entirely.

1) The first trick is that they only let you vote R or D -- but both these parties defend basically the same interests. In particular, both parties are American nationalists, & will never permit any mobilization of extreme popular outrage against the United States Government as a whole. In the fake "land of the free," it is permitted to give little verbal wrist-slaps to the president, but you can't bluntly state -- even if it's absolutely true -- that the entire top echelon of government is criminal, treasonous, & deserving of the most serious types of prosecution & punishment.

2) The second trick is that in modern society, the corporate media makes almost 100% of politically audible noise. They have the power to bring political candidates to their knees, in less than 24 hours. We saw this recently when the media demanded that Obama denounce the Rev Wright; and also (to a lesser extent) when the media demanded that Hillary offer some sort of apology for her RFK remark. Both times, the media outrage was so intense that the candidate was forced to respond in a day or so.

There's no question that the media could use this same awesome power to quickly bring Bush & Cheney to their knees over the torture matter (or over the 5 year war in Iraq, launched over nonexistent WMD, etc). The media "could" do this -- if it wanted to. But it doesn't want to, because the media is part of a social control mechanism, & this mechanism would sooner blow up the whole planet than lose its grip on power -- which is what would happen if any large-scale public discrediting of the US government were permitted.

Scheer cites the NYT editorial that responded to the Justice Dept's Inspector General's report. The editorial is certainly "critical" of Bush, but the tone is not one of outrage. "Outrage" is what we heard about the Rev Wright -- because Wright's comments were a direct attack on a vital interest of the US ruling oligarchy -- to wit, the lie that the US is always basically benificent, moral, & well-intentioned in its dealings. That's an attack that the oligarchy is obligated to defend against, because it strikes at a vital pillar of propaganda, & thus at our rulers' ability to control the minds of the masses.

But the "minor matter" of a little torture against Muslims who are accused of terrorism -- this is very different from the situation with the Rev. Wright. Wright was attacking the "good name" of the US government, and doing so in a very threatening way -- namely, by citing true facts. Bush/Cheney & Co, on the other hand, IS the US government. BC&Co are not attacking the US government in any broad conceptual sense (ie, the sense useful for propaganda purposes). True, they are disgracing the US govt -- but only in a way that would be recognized by relatively few citizens. The ruling class knows they don't need to worry about this -- so a few "stern words", purporting to criticize the Bush admin, are all that's needed. These words aren't intended to frighten Bush & Co -- to the contrary, they're intended only to strengthen the credibility of the media; to make it look like they're performing their fictional "watchdog" function.

Let's see, this must be about the 400th article I've read in the past 6 or so years entitled "Where Is the Outrage?" Always referring to some aspect of the Bush presidency. The conclusion must be that most Americans are fine with what CDers find outrageous, whether it's illegal war, officially condoned torture, all lies all the time, or anything else. "The outrage" would seem to be confined to our heads and fingers, typing away. If McCain's goons manage to steal the next election, that's where the outrage will remain. I'm outraged on a daily basis, and fat lot of good it's done.

There is outrage aplenty, just peruse the internet progressive chat rooms. But that is a smallish minority of the voters to be certain. Many of us are working two and three jobs, many more are losing their homes as well.

As the economy crumbles the focus shifts from politics to putting bread on the table and a roof over our heads. It might be different had we a real opposition party on which to focus and channel our disgust.....pity that we dont.

WHAT TO DO?

Nader asked Robert Sheer where he would finally draw the line in supporting the Democrats. Sheer said it was the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama is not calling for an end to the occupation yet Sheer is still behind him, supporting him. What's up, Mr. Sheer? When are you going to start pressuring your man?

Where do you draw the line? If a man says, (like Obama has) "Here's some money to buy the weapons you need so we can kill innocent people who are resist our illegal occupation," do you rationalize and say, the others will kill even worse, or do you say, that's appalling and I won't have anything to do with someone like that. It's called intention and it's difficult to shake it, lead it around by the nose, jerk it this way and that.

Sheer thinks he's being oh so intellectual, promoting his stylized form of voting for the lessor of two evils that will go on forever, it seems. What should be taking place is a groundswell of a movement, marching, refusing, demonstrating, making it tough to be a politician, demanding, pressuring. But no. Sheer wants to complain. That's his job, for heavens sake. He's not a movement leader! He's a journalist. I like his articles but he's no leader! He doesn't want to marginalize himself. Remind you of anyone else?

Who are the fearless leaders, the visionaries? Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, Cynthia McKinny, Mike Gravel, I'm sure there are others. But to go ga-ga over one of the Empire's two manufactured choices .... sigh.

When the peace movement gives in, compromises, and then does it again and again, we lose. We get boiled like a frog. Momentum is lost, intention is diffused. We've seen it recently. It's dis-empowering. When we dig in, we may lose once or twice but we stay put - building, holding politicians feet to the fire. I think Sheer is tired of all that and just wants to stay in his comfy chair and type. I empathize.

Nader, old and tired, is not giving in. I saw him recently and decided to buy his book, "Seventeen Traditions." I want to pour over it, use it as a guide to raising my own children. I think Sheer would tell his kids to support the bully who has knocked the fewest teeth out. He wouldn't advise his child to avoid the bully all together.

The keys: Conviction, intention, straight ahead action.

BigLick2 writes: Words Are Important, Ok, I've done that. Nothing has changed. What can I do now?

Why did you do what you did? Was it because you thought it would make a change, or because it was the right thing to do? Sometimes we have to focus on doing the right thing just because it is the right thing to do.

I don't believe there is a magic pill that will solve all our troubles. It will take serious commitment by more people over an extended period of time (longer than this next non-election).

One of my main desires is that at the moment of entering death, I don't want to feel that I betrayed my core beliefs.

I can say that I have a clear conscience about voting outside of the corporate parties. Is it arrogance? I hope not. I believe that it is cutting through the veil that the political process wants to keep us trapped in, the idea that voting for the lessor of two evils is a choice.

It is frustrating when all the Obama and Hillary supporters claim that they are for peace and justice, yet they support candidates that will not bring us any closer to those goals because they put corporate interests (and personal interests) ahead of protecting the public trust.

I have a friend who is involved in social issues (and he has a good attitude) and this is what he says, "You have to be happy with one small victory every ten years."

I would like to get to that level of patience and understanding, and I'm trying, though I still find myself bitter more than occasionally.

If more people had the confidence to act their conscience rather than what the media tells them (liberal, conservative, or even what I'm saying), the world would be a better place.

But that is what the elite are banking on, that we will limit ourselves out of fear. They don't even have to point a gun at us.

"It's going to take an advance of consciousness to move into the life we're going to have to live to survive." Ken Kesey, author of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

The outrage will come when people no longer can afford cable tv to watch "American Idol" and "Dancing With the Stars". When this country plunges into economic depression, and it directly hits peoples' pocketbooks, then you will see the outrage. Until then, even if War Criminal Bush incinerates Iran, many Americans will not care because they will not feel the impact until the price of gas gets so high, they have no choice but to sell their SUVs and eventually, television sets to put food on the table.

" May the wicked become good,
May the good obtain peace,
May the peaceful be freed from bonds,
May the free set others free."
- Prayer of a Boddhisatva

Outrage in the US public over moral issues was mostly destroyed when the country was Reaganized in the 80s. Now, you have a country where roughly half the population, having taken to heart Reagan's redefinition of the word conservative to mean violently aggressive, would gleefully torture a dark-skinned person while visions of various violent, authoritarian police and military TV shows and movies run through their heads. The other half are either wilfully ignorant, distracted by the cop and military shows, or they agree with the torture but just don't wanna get involved. And those few who do care and are opposed to it (mostly middle-aged and older) spend their time getting angry that writers and journalists exposing the crimes aren't also telling them what to do about it. In a lot of countries, people automatically know what to do about it and do. Here, we just fight amongst ourselves while we sit in front of computer screens believing the internet will magically provide the answer.

May the wicked become good,
May the good obtain peace,
May the peaceful be freed from bonds,
May the free set others free."
- Prayer of a Boddhisatva

1. Barrack Obama's wife has stated what i have been thinking and saying for years and that is that Americans are not good people any longer.

2. Where's the outrage? Outrage? Wheres the goddamn revolution? Other countires have endured civil wars over far less than what the Bush Crime Family has put us through with their century long crime spree....

Ok so we torture ... whatever ... get over it .. our cousins across the pond and their cousins further east have been doing it for hundreds of years. It satisfies our bloodlust and gives vent to our dark, deep, inner twisted self, our worst impulses are satisfied, our sickfuck mentality is realized fully and our complete apathy and total disconnection with the other is exposed. So ? As long as we have ESPN and E! and all the porn in the world i dont give a fuck.

Where is the outrage? Too many people are marching in the corporate generated Obama parade; they feel voting for him will make everything better. In reality it will do nothing. Just about everything will continue to get worse.

Words Are Important,

Ok, I've done that. Nothing has changed. What can I do now?

If you don't know what to do, you can start by changing the status quo. That means not supporting any of the corporate candidates, the democrats or the republicans. This election is not any more or less critical than the last one was or the next one will be.

Now is the time to quit the habit of voting for the lessor of two evils.

Do you think that society is going to get any better as our economy collapses, food and housing continue to rise, and we become more of a police state (you will soon be arrested by either government police or private police, which is better?).

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." Frederick Douglass in 1857, in response to those who suggested that the great abolitionist was pushing too hard for an end to human bondage.

Read Former Attorney general John Ashcroft's letter to the President George Bush on the 1st of February 2002:
http://news.findlaw.com/wp/docs/torture/jash20102ltr.html

This letter gives legal basis for the Americans to torture, without coming under Geneva Convention rules.

I'll tell you why the people aren't outraged. It's all the corn syrup. It's in everything we eat here in America; it dulls the brain and makes us very accepting.

But really..what can I do? I post articles with comments on my blog, I write to my congressmen whom choose to ignore me, I vote for canditates who can't win. If I went out to city hall to protest in the city of Huntington, WV where I live, I would be arrested.

I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT TO DO, PLEASE HELP ME OUT.

Dear VOXCLAMANTIS,
Where in the hell do you get your information or shall I say your propaganda from ,the movies? Our Native females had a "zest" for torture? Which Nation? Tribe?
After being and studying First Nations peoples on this great Turtle Island I found VERY FEW instanties where Natives tortured people never mind the females. This MYTH comes from the reasoning of the times for without this MYTH it was harder to murder and steal from us human beings.
You see you had to turn us into another made-up FEAR to justify your counties behavior and to make it easyer for your men to rape our females and murder our children and steal out homelands. You in affect turned us First Peoples into savages in your minds and by the stuff your writing you want to keep up those stero-types going .
americans will go to any extent not to feel the creator given guilt that is suppose to stop us behaving in horrible ways to each other. So there is my out-rage and try and have a PEACEFILLED DAY.

Robert Scheer forgot a third possible reason for our lack of outrage ... WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO !!!

I'm always amazed by the number of great articles on web sites like Common Dreams, but the lack of leadership and action. It's nice that Scheer is writing, maybe he should step beyond that and lead some sort of action. Maybe he doesn't do that because he doesn't know what to do either.

Why is there no outrage over what occurs in the world by Americans? The reason is that there is complicity in that Americans are part of the Empire as a way of Life. Americans neither know or care what happens as a consequence of the government's policies because there is the acceptance of the belief that the U.S. never does anything bad, or that what is done is to protect or promote the society. But while Bush and his cohorts are terrible, it is a mistake to believe thye are outliers in the whold propaganda of empire maintenance. The framework, after all, is set by the populace in the main. If Americans did not accept torture or war, we would not have it. Politicians in the South for 150 years advanced slavery and then supression because citizens supported it but also demanded it. Strom Thurmond was elected by a write in vote because of his views on segregation. A House member in Arkansas was defeated by a write in vote in the 1950s because he questiond segregation. Ae Lincoln did not offer for reelection to the House after the Mexican 'war began because he questioned the exact spot where the Mexicans attacked the U.S. American will only become outraged when the accepted ideology is changed by the populace itself, and that occurs very seldom and when they do, politicians will change. Until then, politicians such as Bush, McCAin and Democrats such as Biden and Kerry will continue to remain in the cocoon of the usual and the acceptable: which is Empire as a way of Life. Obama may expand this framework a bit, but it is unlikely he will challenge it.

I am an American on my passport and my birth certificate, but in my heart I have no country. As member of the human family I am outraged when people are tortured in America or Israel or Iran or China.

The sooner we realize that the fight is not against each other, but each one against his/her own local delusions, then humanity may have a chance.

Teach Peace!

One could surmise as to why the outrage is missing is because not enough of the American population has not actually experienced torture themselves, so it is an abstraction and something that happens to people "somewhere else." Also, not enough Americans travel abroad and see how the United States is perceived without the filter of the corporate media. Simply put, Americans are soft and spoiled.

With respect to the question about whether or not Americans are savages, it would probably help to remember that of all the large cultures on earth today, people of European ancestry are the most recent to have emerge from barbarism. We like to think that we are the descendants of the ancient Greeks, but we're really the descendants of all those barbarians who rushed in to fill up the power vacuum after Rome fell. That's probably why we still wreak so much havoc, be it military or environmental. We are definitely barbarians.

Please pardon my simplicity, but sometimes the simplest answers are correct.

If you support this economic system then you support war and torture.

I guess all the outraged people are deciding if they want to vote for Obama or Hillary.