Clothe the naked and feed the hungry, whatever privation it may cost thee.
Cherish the sick for they are the image of God.
- Aztec

Shame on us.

That's right people-no matter what goes wrong-be sure to blame an immigrant for it. If you really work at i,t perhaps you can blame immigrants for anything and everything that has ever gone wrong! Work-up a sweat!

I wish that people would realize that except for the super upper class elites, that many of us our getting our butts kicked. Instead of pulling together, the pressure for the competition of meager resources forces us to turn on each other in the most brutal way. The upper class elites don't care, they are laughing all the way to the bank. Meanwhile hearts break, people are killed, families are separated while frustrated and angry people look for scapegoats. Makes me not want to be a human anymore.

Maria Antonia Josepha Johanna von Habsburg-Lothringen had her head removed from her pretty little neck by those getting their asses kicked in a long ago, far away country. Known to history as Marie Antoinette she simply went too far with her callous offhanded approach to the problems of the people she ruled over. Perhaps there's a lesson there. I welcome immigrants with an open heart and despise the leaders and followers of oppression. Perhaps there's a lesson there as well.

The oldest story is that of the sacrificial lamb.

"Not unlike the United States, South Africans complain that immigrants deprive local citizens of jobs and absorb precious public resources."

Would all those "Zimbabweans, Malawians, Mozambicans, Pakistanis and other foreigners" be coming to find work in South Africa if they had as good a living in their home countries? Why don't they? Do South Africans go to those other countries to get work? The picture is unclear.

Immigrants are welcome when they are useful. When things tighten back up and they are seen as competitors for the home tribe's jobs, it gets ugly.

And while all of this is unfolding, those of us whose well being is not threatened by the immigrants--and have no need to benefit from demagoguing the issue--can afford to appear more charitable. The big question is can we play a constructive role.

Last I heard, the sweethearts at immigration had reversed their policy of hassling people attempting to escape during a pending disaster.
No rush - they can get 'em later. You can bet that the cameras are working.
I've starting taking Amtrak instead of air for various reasons but recently saw that two very big and armed Border Patrol guys got on at Rochester, NY to wander through the cars.
Rochester? What border are they protecting? At least I got to keep my pint bottle of shampoo but did make sure I had my papers ready should I look suspicious and be asked. At least these guys weren't wearing black leather trench coats.
Actually, I think I saw them escort a couple of rather dark complextion off the train.
Praise the Lord - the Lakeshore Limited will not be hijacked to Canada.

Again, let us not confuse the issue. Immigration as long as it is legal is important to the strength of any nation, for it provides diversity in many different ways. Illegal immigration on the other hand does nothing, but to provide exploitation by illegals and by those legal citizens and companies who exploit illegal immigrants in ways that would enrage the average person. Let us not forget the growing anti-illegal-immigrant sentiment by nationals, illegals should be protected from that also - via deportation.

The manner by which a country chooses to protect itself from being exploited and by which it chooses to protect non-citizens from exploitation is just as long as the illegals are treated with respect under the protection by which the laws provide.

A country should not make it easy for illegal immigrants nor should they make it easy for citizens and companies to exploit illegals. At this time we need to assess the problem of illegal immigration, enforce the current laws and when the problem of illegal immigration is better understood then we can reform the laws.

A balance needs to be struck at a level where opportunity is available to those that wish to immigrate and by which a country can control its borders as it chooses. Illegal immigration is a crime, albeit minimal, but those that choose to ignore our simplest of laws should not be welcome.

Immigrants, especially "illegals," are easy to target as scapegoats for problems created by a tax policy that transfers the country's wealth to the top few percent of already wealthy people while impoverishing the already poor and strapping the middle class. This is complicated by a corporate-friendly trade policy that puts profits before the rights of workers here OR in countries to which we exportjobs.

Who knows what might happen if we put the blame where it belongs? People might even say, Hey, enough already. I'm voting for a Democrat (or a Green) this time!!!

Meanwhile, immigrants here are in danger of being imprisoned and/or deported and of ever greater resentment from people who are being led to believe that immigrants (instead of our current government) are to blame for their problems.

Corporate globalization is behind most of mass migrations today. In many cases such as in Mexico, traditions of many thousands of years are being destroyed by corporate globalization in a matter of years.

First they came for the immigrants, but I said nothing, because I was not an immigrant....

you know the rest.

Shit always floats to the top. Scum follows the orders of those at the top (Werner von Braun being a classic example). So much for the white collar crowd.

While the "elite" are busy maintaining their social prominence God only knows how many thousands of geniuses have lived and died with no opportunity to have their ideas heard because of politics, poverty, or ill timing (probably a combination of all three).

You powers that be have cheated not only the present human race but also your own grandchildren of developments at which we can only guess. Not that I give a damn whether the human race lives or dies.

Nietzsche, that is such an excellent comment!

"While the "elite" are busy maintaining their social prominence God only knows how many thousands of geniuses have lived and died with no opportunity to have their ideas heard because of politics, poverty, or ill timing (probably a combination of all three)."

Nothing could be a better reflection on why things are the way they are... the best of the best (or simply the innocent) are trampled into the dust... and the me-too yay-sayers... are elevated to prominence so that ignorance and violence can kill for another day.

>>Eric Barth -- The oldest story is that of the sacrificial lamb.<< Not true. The oldest recorded story is that of Gilgamesh and it doesn't include a sacraficial lamb.

Maybe not a lamb, but reread the story. A sacrifice is involved in every myth, religion, nation's founding history, and even the smallest segment of social organization.

when i first read the title i was ready to start packing my bags, being an immigrant and all. i was relieved as i was reading the article and i realized that it was about *illegal* immigrants. you know the ones that do not wait 10 years and go thru the process to come to the US, pay no taxes but feel they are entitled to everything.

the word *illegal* which accurately describes the type of immigrant mentioned in the article is only used once.

i say bring on the busses and round'em up.

And may I just add that once the victim is sacrificed, she always becomes remembered as the salvation of the society. Joan of Arc, Jesus, Socrates, to name only three.

chameleon2: How can one be an illegal person?

I see "illegal" immigrants all the time, working their ***** off, while you're sitting comfortably in an air-conditioned room typing on your computer. The price of food in the US is and has long been artificially low, thanks to "illegal" immigrants being exploited for their labor far below even the minimum wage, while the government turns a blind eye.

The ones I think should be put on the bus are terminally stupid people, "chameleon2."

chameleon2: Do you think "illegal" immigrants are here because they have nothing better to do than to leave their own countries behind, making a hazardous journey and leaving their homes and their family and friends to go to a place where they know there are plenty of people like you who would stick them in ovens if given half the chance?

Did you ever think that "illegal" immigrant exist because of an unjust social order? Take Mexico, for example. They've been following American dictates for a couple of centuries, yet still have yet to see the capitalist paradise they've been promised.

African-Americans fled the south to find work in the north and to escape racism; the American middle class has crossed the country back and forth looking for greener pastures and better jobs, leaving behind their own families.

Until you see your own freedom as being bound up with the fates of others and their freedom, you're a hopelessly manipulated lost cause - and a xenophobe and rightwing conservative to boot.

The scapegoats right now are illegal (an obscene adjective in this context) immigrants, along with "terrorists", a euphemism for anyone who opposes the present administration.

I am proud to be on the side of the only people who produce wealth in this society, which is to say those who work hard for subsistence wages.

I am ashamed of this society's respect for the parasitic upper class. If I could I would send them all to do the work now done by migrant labor. These fat pigs contribute nothing, and thanks to every administration since the great Ronald Reagan, pay relatively few taxes.

I'm not condoning class warfare; the rich have been fighting that war for the last 10,000 years, and never have they won so much as in the last eight years. A meritocracy? What a laugh!

Good for you Jude. And I would suggest, a fool.

Immigrants are going to occur in greater numbers in the future with climate change refugees. Immigrants come from places that cannot or will not support their livelihood.
Immigrants mean their source local environment carrying capacity is overwhelmed.
Immigrants are from places where the wealth of their nation has been sucked away by others.
Immigrants are not welcome because the same problems are worsening where they want to go.
Immigrants means that governments are going to be more authoritarian and rejecting.

Years ago they used to hire illegals and keep them in chicken coops to work for pennies. In Washington State the grape growers would keep illegals outside sleeping on the ground. My parents knew of a case where an illegal was thrown out of her house with all of her children during the winter. The baby froze to death in the night. In Washington they got welfare benefits for during the off season, because they wouldn't pay the illegals a decent wage. How is this any different from slavery? Slavery never went away. It's still here. It's time that we demand that all workers be paid a decent wage, no more slave labor for the upper class. That goes for Walmart workers as well. A worker should be paid enough to provide for his/her family without receiving welfare. We should remember why they are here to begin with. We should remember that the cheap corporate individuals think they need slavery. Enough is enough.

jude and nietzsche let's not try and pass judgement on who's terminally stupid or a manipulated rightwing xenophobe.

the main issue is some people are in other countries ilegally. They broke that country's law so they get deported. End of story. Unless and until someone comes up with a better idea there's something called borders that have to be respected.

chameleon2: No, it's not the "main issue," and it's not the "end of story." Ah yes, use the laws to go after the most vulnerable people in society. Govn't administrations violate laws every day (see GW Bush), corporations violate law by hiring "illegals" and paying them peanuts; the rich make laws to benefit and protect their own class... Why don't you worry about true injustice, instead of worrying about people violating the "laws" of the rich? Why don't you worry about why countries are forced into such dire poverty that people are forced to flee to seek greener pastures?

How did your own ancestors get into the US, I wonder?

Why is that a Frenchman can enter Bulgaria anytime he pleases, but a Bulgarian finds it extremely difficult to enter France?

Why can an American go to Mexico with a driver's licence, but if a Mexican attempts to enter the USA, he'll more than likely be stopped?

Do you think these borders are natural? Who organized the borders? What purposes do they serve - or rather, whose purposes do they serve?

You are passing judgment on "illegal people," so why can't I pass judgment on you?

Many people have come up with a "better idea," by the way. But do you think the bourgeois criminal class is doing to go away so easily, just because we have a better idea? They have the wealth and the guns and the laws. They just make our ideas "illegal."

Here you go, chameleon2:

Wislawa Szymborska's "Psalm":

http://www.arlindo-correia.com/wislawa_szymborska.html#_PSALM

And excerpts from Charles Bowden:

http://marcod.tripod.com/QUOTES/bowden.html

Songs from my youth. [Kingston Trio]

THEY'RE RIOTING IN AFRICA (THE MERRY MINUET)
(Sheldon Harnick)

They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain.

The whole world is festering
With unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans,
The Germans hate the Poles

Italians hate Yugoslavs
South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody
very much

But we can be grateful
And thankful and proud
That man's been endowed
With a mushroom shaped cloud

And we know for certain
That some happy day
Someone will set the spark off
And we will all be blown away

They're rioting in Africa
There's strife in Iran
What nature doesn't do to us
Will be done by our fellow man.

[these lyrics are found on http://www.songlyrics.com]

They are undocumented workers. Illegal Immagrants is an absurd, archaic term When the dems were doing their "we Won dance", I immediately went to the Vote Count. Hmmm, Kucinich voted Nay, so I printed the 182 pages of the text and read it. It was an amended amendment waiting on the Senate calendar. They were supposed to be voting on FISA with no retroactive immunity. Since that day undocumented workers according to the amended amendment have zero rights, do with them what you will was the message.
Kucinich represents so he reads everything, so much wrong in the amended amendment, now see what they are doing.
When in doubt look if Dennis voted opposite of the dims and print out the GPO text and read every word, he is always correct.

Indeed I am shocked. I am of mixed heritage but look Mexican/Native American enough to get picked up despite being an American citizen visiting my relatives in Texas. It has never occurred to me to have to carry my birth certificate with me until now. I am trying not to let fear overcome me but there is a neighborhood here where an overzealous policeman pulls over anyone looking even a tad Mexican. I try to avoid his beat but sometimes in order to get to where I'm going I cannot avoid it. Please, even if this doesn't affect you personally right now don't let this happen because once they discover they can warehouse or toss one segment of the population over the border it may soon turn out they can do it to anyone for whatever reason...you have a book in your car they don't like, you are wearing a t-shirt with logo they don't like, you have a copy of a poem that you have written they don't like....etc.

jude, your posts remind me of my childhood when i heard the terms "bourgeois criminal class" and the kind of talk you are using about the 'laws of the rich'.

If you had read my post more carefully you would have noticed that my ancestors did not get in the US. I did, legally. And, by the way, as an immigrant i do not feel threatend at all.

Why a Bulgarian can has trouble entering France? Well, that was not always the case. People who were visiting western europe during the dark days of the soviet union and communism were welcome there. I happen to know that for a fact. That is until certain people from eastern countries started swarming western Europe and were up to no good (stealing, begging and generally making a nuisance of themselves).

I will dissent from the comments above (although I will be sneered at for doing so).

The United States allows two million legal immigrants per year - more than any other country. It also allows a large number of people to enter the country to work.

It is not the case (as some above have claimed) that the superrich are against illegal immigrants. They are the ones that want them here. They can hire them cheaply and then push them back into my part of town.

I live in a working class area that has always been integrated - white, black, and yes, hispanics. We used to know each other, care for our property, and enjoy the place. In the last few years, the area has become invaded (I mean the word) by hispanics. The ones coming in now are very different. They buy houses, trash them, and then abandon them. Some of the logos spray painted on the abandoned houses scare the old-time hispanics. They tell me that they are from known gangs. Here, in the middle of Indiana!

My older sister and I are both retired. We worked all of our lives, have enough money to live on but not enough to move. Now, we find that the value of our house has dropped dramatically and the crime rate has gone way up. Most of the people who used to be here have moved out. I don't know what we will do.

Mexico is a very rich country. There is a Mexican billionaire that is richer than Bill Gates. Yet, they do nothing for their own poor. They encourage them to come here. Mexico itself is not open to illegal immigrants. The ones that come from other Latin American countries are treated harshly. Yet they criticize the US.

I don't like the current measures employed against illegal aliens. Nor do I like some of the laws that are being passed. Indiana now requires a government-issued ID in order to vote. This discriminates against American citizens who are old, poor, or simply do not yet have a car. All of the hispanics in this area have cars (lots of them - it's the "macho" thing). They also seem to have drivers licenses. They can vote but some people my age who no longer drive could not.

I don't know what the solution is. As I've said, I dislike the government's harsh treatment of people they want in the country because they work for so little. On the other hand, I'm angry because there no longer seems any place for me.

Ruth K: I respect that you have a different take on this than I do and that's ok, Common Dreams is a big tent. But I will not stand for you misrepresenting what I said in my earlier post. I never said it was the superrich against the undocumented. What I meant was that the superrich (who do benefit from exploited labor as I'll concede you correctly stated) wants to play off the undocumented against the middle and lower economic classes in this country. You referring to my post though not by name. As for Mexico, yes it is resource rich to be sure, I'll grant that. But part of the problem is that the US and it's plutocrats strongly supports a semi-feudalistic monopolistic Mexico. The US colluded in rigging the '06 election so it could make sure it's little puppet Calderon would win instead of a decent person like Lopez Obrador. I am also disheartened that you would use the word "invade" to characterize hispanics. That's blatantly xenophobic, but that's your hang up not mine. But since we are using the word "invade", I like to use the word "karma". The US invaded Mexico took half of her land and precious resources. You benefit indirectly from that whether you want to admit or not. You say there is no place for you. But for Mexicans who live in desperate poverty, you think it's easy for them? You think it's easy for them to be separated from their families in Mexico while they live in the shadows in the US trying to eak out a living? They can't go back to see their families, because if they do, they may not be able to come back in to work. Now don't get me wrong, I despise those that would pay undocumeted laborers substandard and subminimum wages and these companies should be prosecuted for their inhumanity. But you can't replace one inhumanity with another. Ethnically cleansing millions of Latinos out of the country is not a solution. My solution would be to make the former Mexican southwest a free zone for Mexican nationals to move to and fro as needed. All the other parts of the US, they would need to show or apply for the proper documentation. You are angry because you have to show ID to vote in indiana and believe me I share your anger. But that's not because of the Mexicans, it's because of the stupidity of our government. And by the way you are making my point, because the elites do want to play you off against the Mexican immigrants and you are being played, and you swallowing it hook line and sinker. I didn't write this to sneer at you, but just to give you my two cents. I am part Mexican and when you lash out against hispanics or Mexicans, you lash out at me. It's like you want to have a place but you would deny me my place. Finally to your point about Mexican gangs. There wouldn't be a need for Mexican gangs to protect their varrios if weren't for the Anglos and others terrorizing and harrassing them. (Pardon the typos)

To: forextrader

I also said that until recently we were a integrated neighborhood of whites, blacks, and hispanics. It was fine. The problem is what has happened here recently.

You say that "the elites do want to play you off against the Mexican immigrants and you are being played". For the most part, I reject what the "elites" say. For views are taken from what is happening in my own back yard - not from political propaganda.

You say that I was angry at having to show my ID to vote. That is not the case. I was angry because the law is ineffectual and stupid. I pointed out that it disinfrancized American citizens.

I also pointed out that I'm against the government's harsh treatment of people.
I know that poor Mexicans have a difficult life. For the most part, I blame the Mexican rich for ignoring their needs for basic necessities, health care, and education. They care nothing for their own people.

The government of this country has also failed. We need some reasonable policy on integration. What we are getting is a hodge-podge of laws that make no sense and will worsen the situation and turn people more and more against each other. That is clear from my resentment at my situation and also from the anger you are demonstating towards me.

For my part, I am 72. When I was young, you could get a work permit before you were 16. I did. I worked all of my life. As a women, I was always paid less. I was nearly 50 before I had saved enough to buy this house. Why should I have to give up the little I have?

We're all losing.

They are now building a new "Berlin wall" in Texas along the US Border with Mexico. The US is the new soviet like empire or is it more like a Nazi empire. I am revolted every time I hear of an ICE raid or other immigration enforcement. Any person with a sense of decency would be disgusted to the heart by the US government's behavior. There is no doubt that the US opened the door to illegal immigration, businesses violated immigration and labor laws, the US Farm Bill and Nafta helped destroy the Mexican corn crop and drove millions into despair. And after all this bullshit...who do we attack? The immigrants. Before they were the neo's dreams.. low labor cost, no worker's rights or unions, what more could they want to help destroy american labor. Now, those who came here should be legalized, given full rights and pay and then enforce the immigration laws...against the businesses...not the poor people who are just looking for survival.

To those who rant about illegal immigrants deserving harsh treatment for "not following the rules", consider those rules. Not just the immigration law, but all the laws about imports and exports, banking, trade agreements between nations etc. Over centuries a large and complex set of rules has been established that work globally in favor of the rich countries. People in other countries may study and work harder than us, but will never get equal rewards for their crops or products or labor.

The set-up reminds me of a gambling casino, where if you follow the rules you may get the occasional pay-off but over-all the house wins. In the big casino that is the world, the house is the owners and rulers in a few countries, and the gamblers are the rest of us. The difference is we can't walk out of this casino and spend our money and our lives elsewhere. The only option is to play by the rules and hope for that jackpot or find a way to beat the system in some small way. The undocumented immigrants chose the latter.

chameleon 2 is a disgusting reptile who revels in the misery of others. He has managed to winkle his way onto the gravy train that is America and is now so f***ing smug and superior. My goodness! You were simply lucky to have been born in a country that provided the social supports that enabled you to get the level of skill necessary for immigration to the USA. The poor Central Americans and Mexicans are products of a system that has them at the nub end from Day 1. But, like all human beings, they hope and dream for a better life (evidently, our reptile does not get this). The only way that these cast-offs of the capitalist system can ever hope to have even a slightly better life is to make the life-threatening trek to El Norte. Personally, I think the energy that these amazing human beings bring to the US of A should be celebrated. We don't need the xenophobic and self-satisfied hisses of the likes of our resident reptile to poison the world.

nightwatch, you stinking toad (see i can hurl insults as well). you know nothing about me so how can you assume anything you are saying. let's just say that i didn't have it easy growing up where i did, neither was it easy for me coming here. if you think coming to the US is a gravy train then you are have no idea what you are talking about. it takes hard work to make in here and i am proud to say i did work hard and made a life for me and my family.

the country i come from did not provide 'social supports that enabled me to get the level of skill necessary for immigration to the USA'. I gained the skills i need over here while working my butt off. What did you do nightwatch, besides being born on the right piece of realestate???

also, central american countries better get their s**t together and stop blaming their sorry status on 'american imperialism' and better look in the mirror.

RuthK

Funny(or pathetic-depending on how one looks at it) that when you mention 'illegals' your brain automatically thinks 'Mexican'. That tells me that your brain has been laundered quite thoroughly

What's a cold-hearted, self-satisfied, self-righteous reptile like chameleon2 waddling about in the warm sunshine that's usually Common Dreams? I can see the slime sloughing off. UGH!!! Bring on animal control! The problem with the argument of the poikilotherm is that the ultra-poor in Mexico and Central America get nowhere even if they work their butts off. Capitalist structures and racism make certain of that. The 'Economist' recently carried an article about the awful conditions in southern Mexico, home to most of Mexico's aboriginal peoples. Making a 'life' for the families of these unfortunates is never possible under normal circumstances; I've travelled extensively in poor countries and I've seen it. chameleon2, for your information I was born in a poor country, worked my butt off to get professional qualifications, and immigrated to a rich country. Having been so fortunate, though, unlike you I do not wish to exclude others whatever route they take to come to the US. Good luck, my friends, I would say. Moreover, the economy of the US would wobble badly without these 'undocumented' workers. If you were human I'd say 'Open up your heart' but since you are evidently sub-human, I will not appeal to the higher senses.

>>Bring on animal control! The problem with the argument of the poikilotherm is that the ultra-poor in Mexico and Central America get nowhere even if they work their butts off. Capitalist structures and racism make certain of that. The 'Economist' recently carried an article about the awful conditions in southern Mexico, home to most of Mexico's aboriginal peoples.

This a point worth repeating. Both my Grandparents came from East Europe. The one from East Prussia. In his youth he was in the Prussian army, once mustered out he was a horse trader traveling village to village. The other grandfather came from Poland.

They did not suddenly discover the work ethic when they came to Canada. Neither had much of an education. What Canada gave them was an opportunity that they did not have in Poland or East Prussia.

That opportunity was to own land. This land was given to them free by the Canadian Government along with the the price of tickets to get over to Canada.

Certainly they had to work that land, and certainly they worked hard but no such opportunity would ever have risen in Old Europe where all the land was owned by the Nobility.

Now what of this new world ? Was it suddenly just created out of nothing? hardly. Native tribes roamed its lands and had done so for thousands of years. They were dispossessed of that wealth by later invaders. When my Grandfathers arrived here the Natives were already on the reserves, thus the land "free" for the taking.

Those mexicans that cross the borders to work in America are not the illegals. They are the descendents of the people who lived in these lands first. They are part of the group of people who were dispossessed of their wealth by a stronger invader. Their ancestors very likely roamed texas long before these "full Blooded Americans did".

That so many Europeans prospered when they got to the New World was not so much because they worked their asses off. They could have done the same in Europe and got nowhere in those days. It was because there was land and resources for the taking and they took it.

My Grandfathers each got 160 acres each. later on they each applied for and got another 160 acres as part of their homesteads. Can you imagine giving a Mexican Immigrant 160 acres of land In America today? I am sure s/he would prosper off it.

Calling The native Americans "Illegal aliens" is like The Immigrants from eastern Europe flooding into Palstine and calling the Palestinians Illegal aliens.