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Obama, McCain, and Munich
George W. Bush made headlines when he celebrated Israel's 60th anniversary by warning the Knesset, Israel's parliament, against the "false comfort of appeasement." The two words that sounded most loudly were the ones that Bush did not actually say: "Obama" and "Munich."
The Washington Post's Dan Balz summed up the general consensus: "More than anything said so far by John McCain, Bush's comments ... signaled what the principle Republican attack line will be in the campaign against Obama." The White House officially denied the charge even as it privately confirmed the strategy. And when reporters asked McCain to respond, he replied "Yes, there have been appeasers in the past, and the president is exactly right."
The Obama campaign must have been delighted. The last thing McCain needs now is to have the least popular president in living memory become his campaign spokesman. But the charge of "appeaser" won't go away. So let's look at some facts, starting with the other name that Bush put front and center without actually saying it: Munich.
The Nazis Are ComingIn case anyone missed the connection, McCain made it clear when he told reporters that there have been appeasers in the past "and one of them is Neville Chamberlain.'' In 1938, British Prime Minister Chamberlain met with Hitler in Munich and agreed to let Germany annex the Sudetenland, the predominantly German part of Czechoslovakia, to gain what he called "peace for our time." Chamberlain has been scorned ever since as the greatest of all appeasers. Or at least that's the conventional wisdom.
In fact, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt heard the news of the Munich pact, he sent Chamberlain a telegram with just two words on it: "Good man." Roosevelt told his ambassador to Italy, "I am not a bit upset over the final result." His most trusted foreign policy adviser, Sumner Welles, predicted that the Munich accord might lead to a new world order based on justice and law. Half a year later, FDR still hoped to negotiate with Hitler by appealing to reason: "This situation must end in catastrophe," the president wrote in a personal letter to the Fuhrer, "unless a more rational way of guiding events is found."
The idea that Munich represented not merely a mistake but a moral catastrophe did not emerge until later, when it turned out the Nazis were intent on war no matter what concessions they received. Once he was in the war, FDR started negotiating with another leader viewed by many Americans as evil incarnate: Josef Stalin. FDR may have shared their view. He justified his alliance with Stalin as "holding hands with the devil." But if that's what it took to promote American interests, Roosevelt did not hesitate to do it.
Negotiating with the evil enemy became bipartisan policy under Dwight D. Eisenhower. Ike's popularity rating soared when he met with Soviet leaders Khrushchev and Bulganin in Geneva in 1955. That set off an almost continuous round of disarmament talks, which continued when the Democrat John F. Kennedy became president. Kennedy also made sure that summitry with Soviet leaders became a bipartisan institution. Richard Nixon won wide praise for extending it to China, though he was criticized from the right for edging too close to appeasement. A few years later, most of those same right-wingers were praising their leader, Ronald Reagan, for his own summitry with the Soviets.
Even During WarThe bipartisan policy of negotiating with enemies has extended to active wartime situations too. Harry Truman negotiated endlessly with the other side during the Korean War. His popularity sank not because he negotiated but because the talks brought no end to the war. In the Vietnam War era, Richard Nixon sent Henry Kissinger for talks with the North Vietnamese.
This is merely the record of public negotiations with enemies. There is also a rich record of secret back-channel talks. JFK defused the 1962 Cuban missile crisis not by "standing tough" and risking war but by secretly agreeing to take U.S. missiles out of Turkey if the Soviets withdrew their missiles from Cuba.
Then there's the case of Iran. When McCain responded to Bush's recent inflammatory speech, he said: "It's not an accident that our hostages came home from Iran when President Reagan was president of the United States. He didn't sit down in a negotiation with the religious extremists in Iran, he made it very clear that those hostages were coming home.''
McCain is off the mark. There were behind-the-scenes negotiations leading up to the hostages' release at the very moment Reagan took the oath of office, and some charge the Reagan campaign was directing them. The new administration certainly did plenty of negotiating with the Iranians (with Israel in the middle), selling them missiles to raise money for illegal support of the contras in Nicaragua.
Bush's memory of history is obviously fuzzy, too. After breaking off the negotiations Clinton had begun with North Korea and making that nation a charter member of the "axis of evil," Bush himself resumed talking with Pyongyang because it was obviously in the best interests of the United States.
At least since FDR, then, presidents have regularly negotiated with leaders of nations they publicly decried as evil. So there is no historical basis for the charge that Obama is an "appeaser," simply because he says it makes sense to talk with the leaders of Iran, Syria, or other nations that are supposedly our enemy.
History of MisrepresentationSince these facts are so well-known, the corporate media and everyone else should have joined Senator Joe Biden in treating the Bush-McCain charge of "appeaser" as nonsense.
But the charge may well have legs because it fits a long-standing pattern. Presidents and other U.S. leaders who negotiated with supposed enemies have regularly (no matter how unfairly) been accused of appeasement. Democrats spent years fending off charges that Roosevelt had appeased Stalin at their Yalta summit (where Churchill did agree to give Stalin control of much of Eastern Europe, perhaps with FDR's knowledge). In 1957, Eisenhower told his national security advisor that he was worried the Democrats would turn the tables and attack his disarmament negotiation plans as "our Munich."
By then, though, the meaning of "appeasement" and "Munich" had changed. And that change holds the key to the importance of the "appeasement" charge in this year's election.
"Appeasement" began as an accurate charge of miscalculation. In1938, the British wrongly thought that a grant of the Sudetenland would stop German aggression. So the opposite of "appeasement" was intelligence: an accurate calculation of enemy intentions and a well-crafted rational pursuit of one's own national interest.
But Eisenhower meant something quite different when he told aides: "If you are imposing a moral program in this world, you have to stand behind it with strength ... It would be unthinkable to be guilty of a Munich. It is likely that you do come to a place uncomfortably close to war, but you cannot retreat and retreat." Ike said he was willing to risk nuclear war to stop the Chinese from shelling two tiny islands in the Straits of Formosa because "should the Reds eventually control Formosa, that would be a real Munich," and "there was hardly a word which the people of this country feared more than the term 'Munich.'"
By the 1950s, then, "appeasement" and "Munich" meant far more than mistaking the enemy's intentions. Those words now meant doing anything that might allow the enemy to gain any advantage, or anything that might look like advantage, anywhere in the world. The opposite of "appeasement" became "softness," or the appearance of "softness." Anything less than an absolutely rigid unyielding resistance to every move of the opponent, no matter how rational or understandable that move might be, could now be tarred with the dreaded epithet "appeasement."
This change in the meaning of the word flowed from a change in the concept of the enemy. FDR and Chamberlain saw Nazi Germany as evil because it was competing with, and threatening to harm, U.S. and British interests. When FDR wrote to Hitler urging "a more rational way of guiding events," he said nothing about stopping persecution of Jews and others in Germany. He demanded only that Germany stop arming for war and start "opening up avenues of international trade." The underlying picture was of nations in conflict because each was pursuing its own self-interest, as nations always do.
By Eisenhower's time, the war was ideological. The fascists and communists were rashly lumped together as "totalitarians": people who would settle for nothing less than total control of the entire world. The strong dose of realpolitik in the Soviet leaders' foreign policy was ignored. They were not treated as rational beings like us. The Eisenhower consensus said that the only way to deal with them was to keep them penned up behind a wall of containment, a wall so highly fortified it would be impenetrable and immutable.
New War, New EnemyThe United States' new enemy, "the terrorists," are cast in the same "totalitarian" mold. Bush made that clear when he told the Knesset that the United States and Israel are fighting "a clash of visions, a great ideological struggle ... an ancient battle between good and evil." While we "defend the ideals of justice and dignity with the power of reason and truth, on the other side are those who pursue a narrow vision of cruelty and control."
The fight is thus not about power and resources. It's about fundamental moral values. So "appeasers" are no longer charged with a failure of clear thinking. In a return to the thinking of the 1950s, any hint of "softness" or wavering on the promise of absolute resistance to evil is treated as an out-and-out moral failure.
Even if FDR referred to Stalin (rather jokingly) as "the devil," he treated Stalin as a rational leader pursuing national interests such as defeating the Nazis and ensuring his country's survival.. In Bush's rhetoric, Osama bin Laden is a much more literal devil figure -- an irrational, inexplicable force of pure malice, doing evil for the pure sake of doing evil, doomed to all eternity to keep on attacking the virtuous. That bin Laden might have rational interests, however contrary to U.S. policy, is not considered. Bush applies the same devilish qualities to all leaders of nations he depicts as enemies, and sometimes to those nations as a whole. McCain tends to follow suit.
From that perspective it makes sense to say, as Bush did, mockingly and sneeringly: "Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along." The premise is that diplomacy can have no effect on an enemy driven by absolute evil. But every president since FDR has seen diplomacy have very real effects on the declared enemies of the United States: the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, and so on.
There is a theological dimension here. If the enemy is not a human being like us but an agent of the devil, or perhaps the devil himself, then all who fight the enemy are by definition on the side of God. A geopolitical contest becomes a religious war: two implacably opposed belief systems in conflict, with not the slightest possibility of compromise or even mutual understanding. The question of misunderstanding doesn't arise. "Appeasement" is simply a matter of sin.
Responding to AppeasementObama says he'll debate the Republicans on foreign policy any time. But Obama's way of talking about negotiation with the enemy is vintage 1930s FDR. Like most Democrats, he wants a debate about intelligence, about who can be smarter in pursuing American interests and making life better for the voters. He asks voters to trust that he's smart enough to avoid appeasement of the miscalculation variety.
Bush and McCain, on the other hand, speak Eisenhower's language. They want a debate focused not on intelligence but on moral and spiritual fortitude. They want to frame the issue in theological and patriotic terms: Who can hold the line more firmly against the implacable, eternally aggressive force of evil in the world -- and thus prove himself a true American?
According to Matt Bai, writing in The New York Times, "McCain considers national values, and not strategic interests, to be the guiding force in foreign policy." The national values McCain rests his campaign on are moral fortitude and spiritual strength, an absolute refusal to "appease" or concede even an inch to evil -- the same values that McCain says got him through his years in a North Vietnamese prison. He offers those painful years as the proof that he is the true embodiment of what America stands for: not smart self-interest, but absolutely intransigent resistance to moral evil.
McCain and his strategists know the truth in what Harold Meyerson recently wrote: "Should the election turn on the question of 'What are you going to do for America?' rather than 'Are you a real American?' Republicans are doomed." They hope that the "appeaser" charge will focus the campaign debate around existential questions of American identity. McCain is depending on Eisenhower's equation of "appeasement" with immorality and spiritual weakness, identified as un-American qualities.
If the polls can be believed, McCain's strategy may be working. Far more than half the public still oppose the war and say that want to bring U.S. troops home. Those numbers are holding steady. But there has been a tiny change on the question, "Which candidate do you trust most to handle the Iraq war?". McCain, the "as-long-as-it-takes-to-win" candidate, was running clearly ahead on Iraq. Now he is more-or-less tied with Obama. So there is a small but substantial number of voters -- perhaps enough to swing the election -- who agree with Obama's "end the war" policy but trust McCain more to do the right thing in Iraq.
As Bai said, "McCain's main reason for continuing on in Iraq seems to be that we're already there and must not accept defeat." He asks voters to trust that he's strong enough to resist the immoral temptation of appeasement. He asks voters to make the moral and spiritual choice rather than the intelligent choice. We've been there before -- in 2000 and 2004. If the Obama campaign is going to win, it will have to understand why the "appeasement" charge is so effective and craft a strategy that can deflect it.
Ira Chernus is Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Colorado at Boulder and author of Monsters To Destroy: The Neoconservative War on Terror and Sin. Email: chernus@colorado.edu
© 2008 Foreign Policy In Focus
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29 Comments so far
Show AllNow that Hillary may have disqualified herself from a tap for VP by her RFK assasination remark (yesterday), Barack may have to try to defeat both racism and McCain-the-better-warrior on his own. This should involve several "strategies".
1) The Supreme Court over the next twenty years is more important to real lives of real Americans than the manner in which we wind down the wars. The KEY Court decision (so far) as negative example of the Roberts court is last year's smackdown of Lilly Ledbetter's wage discrimination claim at Goodyear Tire. Barack should get on this and never, ever get off talking about it in every speech. Roe v. Wade is in the balance in the future, but the Ledbetter case is an outrage already done. It's NOT about killing babies and it IS a clean example of those "strict constructionists" favoring corporations over people, especially over women. This is one way Barack can try to pick up the Hillary-supporting women.
2) McCain's opposition to new GI Bill is a good example of how McCain seeks to command troops rather than support them.
3) McCain has rejected John Hagee, but we must not let him bury the fact he sought out Hagee in the first place, a thing that revealed lack of knowledge about evangelicals and lack of judgment.
4) McCain MUST BE SEPARATED from as many church voters as possible and this is done by dwelling on the McCains' very large beer business (with constant examples of its social costs), and the fact he never could or would have made it to Congress at all without propulsion from his (then new) wife's beer money.
5) If Barack is prohibited from picking Hillary as VP because of her own extreme stupidity, he can pick another very exerienced person, like maybe Biden (or perhaps many others of similar government stature.)
6) Democrats have spoken of on-the-ground organizing of very voting precinct in the country---not conceding any of them as too-Republican-to-bother-with. They (we) had better follow through on this.
7) I don't know why Oprah has soft-pedaled her Obama support recently. But firing her back up wouldn't hurt.
Chamberlain started the re-armement of England before his plane returned from Munich. England couldn't have fought a war with Germany in '38, didn't do that much better when the war did break out in '39. France did far worse.
Ira is engaging in a bit of historical revisionism as well. Certainly not as malicious as the revisionism offered by the grandson of the man who funded the rise of Nazism in Germany, but revisionism none the less.
Let's say it again shall we? Iran is not a threat to the usa, it doesn't have the ability to take over the world, nor do they have the capability to obliterate Isreal. In 1815 England did have that capability, in 1938 Germany did, Russia may indeed have had that ability in 1945. But the Iraq of 2003, and the Iran of 2008 was not and is not a credible threat to a major power. Nor will they become so even if Iran was able to build an atom bomb or two.
One of the icons of the conservatives and neo-cons is a guy who was called Churchill, didn't he once say that 'to jaw-jaw is better than to war-war'. Yes, he did.
Bush and the Neo-con's (including McCain) refusal to negotiate with foreign criticism of the USA and opposition to US dominance, is a sign of USA's and particularly the Neo-con's much broader denial of realities.
Like the reality that lasting stability cannot be achieved through violent repression. Or that the USA has lost credibility in the world. Or that the USA due to this is a waning super-power. Or that the US economy is in serious trouble. Or that «the American way of life» is ruining the climate and other eco-systems rapidly. Or that the world is in the midst of a giant eco-catastrophy slowly unfolding. Or that all these issues are interlinked.
The expressions this denial takes on change with the topic in vogue. But the pattern remains the same: belligerent denial - as strategy for maintaining maximum control.
It is the USA who (not 'which', as the country consists of people) has been the most 'totalitarian' force in the world since WWII, seeking total world domination for one paradoxically mindless version of capitalism. The paradox is that the people promoting this capitalism are mindless when it serves them, yet very full of belligerent intention when this mindlessness is challenged.
Real negotiation with the perceived and created enemies will reveal and clarify the premise that the USA is in Iraq and Afghanistan against the will of the people (both US and Iraq/Afghan) in order to hold dominance. That reality is what US propagandic spin and "debate" seek to evade and deny.
"DeNial" is still not a river in Egypt. However much the deniers strive to dismiss it as such.
McCain's use of "as-long-as-it-takes-to-win" and Obama's "end the war" show the Dims losing ground in the battle of words.
The Dims cannot 'win' an argument about 'winning' in Iraq. McCain can talk about 'winning' and the Dims must argue on the basis of military strategy, and that ain't gonna work very well.
The Dims can 'succeed'. The Dim party should stop tearing itself in two, stop this insane 'winning' of the party delegate votes needed for nomination. The Dim party should unite behind one candidate, and united to 'succeed' in throwing out the Repugnant scum, thus bringing sanity and intelligence back to US foreign policy.
"end the war"
Change the terminology to 'end the occupation' and the Dims might have a chance. The war ended 5 years ago when the Commander-in-Chief said so and the US achieved its war goals (per Public Law 107-243, the AUMF that allowed this insanity to happen).
Reframe the wording, change the paradigm, don't fight battles on ground of the opponent's choosing.
locust makes an excellent point! Republicans re-framed estate tax as "death" tax. Democrats perhaps could do the same with "occupation".
I would rather negotiate then have to go to war then go to war before we negotiate. Sorta like when I have a complaint with a company I start out nice and it works. I can always resort to bitch if I have to.
Besides, we are usually the one who attacks these days.
And has anyone noticed that Israel is now talking to Syria...early days yet and Turkey has been the broker.
The US is not at war now. We are an occupying army.
Churchill was not opposed to negotiating with Hitler per se, but he immediately attacked the Sudetenland deal in the House of Commons as a "total and unmitigated defeat" for Britain, pointing out that Czechoslovakia could have gotten better terms from Hitler if left to itself, rather than having its supposed allies breathing down its neck to do whatever it took to make Hitler happy. The other members of Parliament booed him. Only later did they realize he was exactly right; a few months later Hitler annexed the rest of Czechoslovakia.
Of course, a different and more rational German dictator might have been quite satisfied by the Munich deal and avoided further offense instead of grabbing more territory. Then Chamberlain would have looked like a genius (except to the poor Czechs).
Skippyagogo wrote: "England couldn't have fought a war with Germany in '38, didn't do that much better when the war did break out in '39. France did far worse."
Dead right, Skippy, and Chamberlain did promote Britain's national interest, though it meant annexation and subjugation for Czechoslovakia.
In 1938 Britain was militarily very weak. Its strongest force was the navy - useless for defending land-locked Czechoslovakia - and even the Royal Navy had an uncomfortable proportion of ageing ships. The British and French armies were routed by the Wehrmacht in 1940. But the year that Chamberlain gained at Munich enabled Britain to modernise its air defences with "state-of-the-art" (as we would say today) fighters - the Hurricane and Spitfire - and a radar-based air defence control system. Britain's defeat of the Lufwaffe's daylight bombing campaign was a tiny affair compared to Stalingrad or D-Day, but, strategically, it meant that Britain did not have to sign an armistice with Germany, and could hold on until first the Soviet Union, and then the USA were pulled into the conflict and delivered ultimate victory.
I relate this to give a little bit more of the historical context of Munich. The situation the US finds itself in today is not even remotely comparable to Britain in 1938.
I agree Namaste. I saw him speak(Sen. Obama) at Independence Hall on 18 April. I voted for him in the Primary but was dissatisfied with his lack of withdrawal from Iraq, the Sovereign Nation we are illegally Occupying, his non-attempt of our 52nd State and what he will do for the Palestinians, and more.
Now that he is showing up for Votes and has given definative answers re; Veteran care, DIPLOMACY, the forgotten and peaceful end to atrocitries we have committed, his desire to speak with the leaders of Iran and the Government in Gaza, whether it be Hamas or Hezbollah or both has given me great hope. I will vote for Senator Barack Obama.
Since politicians say and do things to win elections, why not channel stupidity? It'll always help. "WW II was the greatest war ever", McBush will say. "The bad guys versus the good guys.." and so on. Aside from being destructively horrible, with near apocalyptic levels of carnage and bloodshed, it was an unrivaled period of violence in the 20th Century, a total tragedy. AND, indeed, preventable!
Many Americans keep it simple: sacrifice, duty, and patriotism. We were good, they were evil. Good won, only with war. McCain probably believed the same thing when he was dropping gasoline bombs on people.
Ira Chernus seriously distortys the truth of the situation by confining his discussion of political reaction to the Munich agreements exclusively to Franklin Roosevelt, and "forgetting" how many intelligent British statemen opposed appeasement from the beginning.
Churchill's opposition is famous enough, but in the House of Commons debate on this issue, Duff Cooper also attacked Chamberlain's miserable policy:
The Prime Minister has believed in addressing Herr Hitler through the language of sweet reasonableness. I have believed that he was more open to the language of the mailed fist....
The Prime Minister has confidence in the good will and in the word of Herr Hitler, although when Herr Hitler broke the Treaty of Versailles he undertook to keep the Treaty of Locarno, and when he broke the Treaty of Locarno he undertook not to interfere further, or to have further territorial aims, in Europe. When he entered Austria by force he authorised his henchmen to give an authoritative assurance that he would not interfere with Czechoslovakia. That was less than six months ago. Still, the Prime Minister believes that he can rely upon the good faith of Hitler; he believes that Hitler is interested only in Germany, as the Prime Minister was assured....
The Prime Minister may be right. I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, with the deepest sincerity, that I hope and pray that he is right, but I cannot believe what he believes. I wish I could. . . . I remember when we were discussing the Godesberg ultimatum that I said that if I were a party to persuading, or even to suggesting to, the Czechoslovak Government that they should accept that ultimatum, I should never be able to hold up my head again. . . . I have ruined, perhaps, my political career. But that is a little matter; I have retained something which is to me of great value--I can still walk about the world with my head erect.
Clement Atlee was just as accurate:
The events of these last few days constitute one of the greatest diplomatic defeats that this country and France have ever sustained. There can be no doubt that it is a tremendous victory for Herr Hitler. Without firing a shot, by the mere display of military force, he has achieved a dominating position in Europe which Germany failed to win after four years of war. He has overturned the balance of power in Europe. He has destroyed the last fortress of democracy in Eastern Europe which stood in the way of his ambition. He has opened his way to the food, the oil and the resources which he requires in order to consolidate his military power, and he has successfully defeated and reduced to impotence the forces that might have stood against the rule of violence.
And of course Churchill had been right all along:
Between submission and immediate war there was this third alternative, which gave a hope not only of peace but of justice. It is quite true that such a policy in order to succeed demanded that Britain should declare straight out and a long time beforehand that she would, with others, join to defend Czechoslovakia against an unprovoked aggression. His Majesty's Government refused to give that guarantee when it would have saved the situation, yet in the end they gave it when it was too late, and now, for the future, they renew it when they have not the slightest power to make it good.
Ira Chernus has done a real disservice to the anti-war Left by distorting the historic record as thoroughly as McCain and Bush.
i don't think the exact historical details of the chamberlain "appeasement" are as relevant as the fact that talking is not on the agenda for israel regarding the palestinians. israel wants to keep dispossessing them and thus cannot talk itself into any kind of peaceful solution that would put a stop to the dispossession. Bush as the representative of the US as enablers of ISrael has to talk against negotiations while in israel, above all while in israel. that's the best way to show solidarity with the israelis.
everthing is on the table except talking, negotiating.
i think the whole thing is about israel and not the US. the neocons have made everybody in the whitehouse and israelfirster
JACOB FREEZE, SKIPPY A GOGO & ULLERN: Good posts.
LOCUST: I definitely think you're onto something with framing. I'd take is a step further. Remember when Ross Perot (like so many defense attorneys) had all those graphs ready to be used on TV as props? Each one demonstrated where Arkansas sat in terms of numerical status in things like literacy, rates of out-of-wedlock children born, etc.
I'd like to see OBAMA get up with graphs that show the ACTUAL costs of this war...
costs in terms of lies, costs in terms of US bodies (dead), costs in terms of suicide & PTSD in Vets, costs in terms of the several reports of BILLIONS each unaccounted for, the costs of an Iraqi infrastructure NEVER repaired, of the permanent bases there. In short a graph of what's been spent in blood and treasure.
Then, as orator that he appears to be, STARE into the camera (i.e. US audience) and ask what WINNING might or could possible RESEMBLE given these FACTS?
WIN means that 20 years later the nation you destroyed is your trade partner, and any with a conscience get to look at all those hit by radiation one way or another. It's time to just fast forward 20 years, and work out the robust trade agreements SANS weapons.
Bush and McCain know nothing about history. Zionist neocons advise them to draw parallels between Iran and Nazi Germany, Czechoslavkia and Israel. But the analogy fails on all levels. Within the context of aggression and appeasement in the ME, Iran is more comparable to Czechoslavakia; and nuclear-armed, expansionist, apartheid Israel is more comparable to Nazi Germany. Iran has no territorial ambitions, but Israel does. The US has victimized and terrorized Iran for over half a century while it turned Israel into a powerful, land-grabbing predator. Neocons/Zionists feed the Big Lie to the corporate MSM, which dutifully uses it to prepare the American public for another unjust war. In the ME, the real aggressor is Israel, and Bush and McCain are the real cowards and appeasers--ready to destroy Iran in exchange for support from the Israel lobby, encompassing both Christian and Zionist fanatics.
An article written by a man who is Head of Religious Studies cannot be taken seriously.
People who believe in religious fantasies cannot think clearly. They view the world and everything in it through a distorted prism. They are out of touch with reality just like corporate barons who see the world as something to be exploited for their exclusive benefit.
Einstein described religion as an 'incarnation of childish superstitions.' He was right.
P.S. If you want to create a popular website check my blog!
McCain is a rich dumbass masquerading as a war hero.
Bush calling someone an appeaser? Isn't this the same Bush who pulled our troops out of Saudi Arabia after Osama Bin Laden complained about them?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm
"Last Updated: Tuesday, 29 April, 2003, 15:16 GMT 16:16 UK
US pulls out of Saudi Arabia
The United States has said that virtually all its troops, except some training personnel, are to be pulled out of Saudi Arabia....Saudi Arabia is home to some of Islam's holiest sites and the deployment of US forces there was seen as a historic betrayal by many Islamists, notably Osama Bin Laden.
It is one of the main reasons given by the Saudi-born dissident - blamed by Washington for the 11 September attacks - to justify violence against the United States and its allies.
"
In 1933 FDR diplomatically recognized the butcher Stalins Soviet Union, and then set up the Import Export Bank that guaranteed loans to the Soviet Union. This despite knowing of Stalins genocidal starvation of 7 million Ukranian Christians at the time, and the millions killed before that. The pact with the devil was made well before the War. FDR used to refer to Stalin in private as Uncle Joe.
During our depression, manufactured and prolonged by the Fed, whom were controlled by London financiers, as many as 7 million Americans died of starvation while food which could not be sold was disposed of. Many of them were farmers who were kicked off their farms over unpaid debt.
The government actually disposed of food which vendors could not sell. Market rules were observed strictly: unsold goods should always be categorized as redundant and they could not be given away to the poor because it could cause damage to businesses. A variety of methods was used to destroy redundant food. They burnt crops, drowned 10 million hectares of harvesting fields, 6.5 million pigs were killed and disposed of rather than butchered and the meat distributed to the starving.
We are told public works introduced by President Roosevelt became a salvation for the jobless and landless Americans. The works conducted under the Public Works Administration and the Civil Works Administration built channels, roads or bridges in remote and dangerous territories paid little after taxes and fees, and there were many deaths. Prison labour was also included in the work force. The conditions which people were working for food, might be compared to Stalin's GULAG camps. As Stalin said, if you don't work, you don't eat.
As for Hitler, everyone had read Mein Kampf, he said what he was going to do and he did it. He had no designs on the British or French. Yet it was the British and French who declared war on Hitler over Poland (and Poland last half it's territory to the Soviet Union, and the other half was under Soviet control after the war). When Hitler took charge, following his 9/11 event, the Reichstag Fire, he immediately implemented his crackdown on the Jews. The Zionists in Britain then declared an economic War on Hitler from London (this is a matter of record). Yet under FDR, knowing what everyone knew of Hitler, immigration was essentially brought to a halt, and the Jews, which previously had been immigrating to the US even before Hitler, had no place to go.
Germany had been economically devastated by WW I and the Versailles Treaty. Our biggest companies transferred technology to Hitler that allowed him to make weapons and make synthetic fuel, and our bankers provided the financing, some even continuing business while we were at War . FDR, knowing full well what Hitler would use these weapons for, it was after all laid out in Mein Kampf, stood aside while this build up occurred. Hitler could not have gone to war with any country without our assisting in his buildup (the same could be said of Stalin).
WW II and WW I of course were both manufactured products of the psychopathic elite. They were not accidents, but necessary steps to the formation of the NWO, and the final step will be WW III, currently in the making with the buildup of China and the rebuilding of Russia that is helped by the high oil prices.
So maybe we were not much better than Hitler and Stalin even then. Today we show our true colors, that perhaps was Bush's main job for the psychpathic elite. Remove the myth, and let the world see who America really is. Good for getting support for a global government, controlled by the same psychopathic elite controlling us.
Of course, the American people are generally good people, dumb, but good (most of them). Unfortunately, we have been hijacked by a psychopathic elite, who have taken over our government. Since Woodrow Wilson, we have been an instrument of evil, taking orders from the London elite through their agents in the US. Today, our leaders after serving in office, if they did good for the elite, get invited to London and get knighted by the Queen.
Einstein on religion BTW is a bit more complex than made out by some.
Einstein was as much a philosopher as a scientist, and his religous counterpart was Baruch Spinoza from the 1600's. Both believed in an amorphous God reflected in the unity of natures laws, a divine nature if you will. The personal god of todays major religions was denied by both, for obvious reasons. Einstein was a devout believe in Spinoza's view of God, which earned Spinoza his expulsion by the rabbis.
Einstein said humans trying to understand God was like entering a great library not knowing how to read, with billions of books written in languages one does not know. It is something beyond us. Einstein was not an atheist, but he did not believe in a personal God that is the basis of most religions.
The curious thing I find about atheists, is that this belief there is no God in any form is also based on the same faith that religous have in a personal God.
One of Einsteins other quotes is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind".
I believe science (thesis) and religion (anti-thesis) must at some point synthesize into a new belief system. For the religous, I say, who are you to judge the tools the God you believe in uses to create. And if God is the creator, then certainly he created the laws that nature follows too, and undertanding the laws of nature (science), leads one to an understanding of God. Religion is the study of the divine law of man, while science is the study of the laws of nature. The divine law of man, given to us by religion, must be applied to science to ensure science is used for Good and not Evil. They can and must be merged.
Infortunately, the institutions of religion and science are used as tools by the psychopathic elite to do evil.
Einstein was also a devout Zionist, which as we know is not a religous movement, but a political movement limited to those who are Jewish, religous or secular. Generally, when religion gets caught up in politics, bad things happen. Einstein may have been influenced by events of the times he lived in, but we know that Zionism was a movement long before Hitler, spawned in a time and place where anti-semitism was minimal and
supported by Jews and non-Jews of the British elite, perhaps as a tool for the NWO they intended to create.
Hello? Who is the aggressor here? Forget whether appeasement is a practical political tool for now, let alone during WWII, which we have had 70 years to analyse and still cannot agree on, and when they could not see into the future either.
Who the f@#k is supposed to be appeasing whom? They are the usual neo-con weasel-words. It's the wrong way round folks.
Daniel, I like your idea about tying the beer barrel around McCain's neck, but it won't work. We could point out his adultery, too, but it just won't matter. It was well known in 2000 that George W Bush had a history which included severe alcoholism, drug abuse, draft dodging, military desertion, promiscuity, insider trading and other offenses, but it didn't stop the Republicans, especially the evangelicals, from seeing him as a political messiah. In 2004 the Swift Boaters managed to portray a highly decorated war hero as a coward and a fraud and a cowardly fraud as a hero.
I think the best strategy is to tie George Bush's failed economic policies and recession around McCain's neck. People are hurting, and they should see that McCain supports, and has vowed to continue, the disastrous neocon agenda.
Iran is not our enemy. Iraq is an occupation. U.S. foreign policy is imperialistic.
Until Obama changes the frame of the debate we can win the peace. Obama is in McCain's frame and therefore if he wins, McCain wins because its on McCain's terms.
For example, Israel is a terrorist state. Instead of stating that he will treat the issue as one of illegal occupation of Palestine, which it is, Obama is just denying reality, like McCain, and saying he's a better friend to Israel. To hell with the Palestinians, is the Obama approach. Where's the change?
Instead offering the peace alternative on every issue Obama is mainly saying he'll fight these wars, conflicts and opponents better and smarter.
Wrong frame; wrong approach; wrong man to lead the country.
Thanks to Professor Ira Chernus for this study, and thanks for all these invigorating posts!
So our president claims that diplomacy with Iran is "appeasement"? As if Iran is Nazi Germany? As if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is Hitler? As was Saddam Hussein?
Google Jewish community in Iran and read about the 2700-year history of the Jewish people in Persia/Iran. Even when they were offered large cash incentives to leave Iran two years ago, the sizeable Jewish community, reported to be at 15000 souls in Tehran and 30000 in Iran, refused to budge. Why should they leave? they reasoned.
Diplomacy is much more than appeasement, though it appears that our US president fails to grasp its significance.
It's been said here before, but I'll repeat that you keep forging ahead, Barack, and we'll cover your back!
My post has a typo on the third line in "president" that I'm trying to correct!
It is the USA who (not 'which', as the country consists of people) has been the most 'totalitarian' force in the world since WWII, seeking total world domination for one paradoxically mindless version of capitalism. The paradox is that the people promoting this capitalism are mindless when it serves them, yet very full of belligerent intention when this mindlessness is challenged.
Ullern:
I agree with your point in the above paragraph, but not with your usage. While it is true that the U.S.A. is a country that contains people, the proper pronoun reference for a country is "which," not "who." That is, "The U.S., which has a belligerent foreign policy, is composed of citizens who can sometimes be bellicose."
And all those right wing dictators across the globe that the U.S. supported during the Cold War have come back to haunt us. We still won't give up on the immoral embargo against Cuba which has only hurt the Cuban people and are now trying to declare Hugo Chavez as an enemy of the United States and a "threat" to us. He is an opponent (rightly) of the U.S. Government and the "Washington Consensus" which has been an economic disaster for Latin America. Neither Cuba nor Venezuela are enemies of the American people. So, enough of this childish garbage about "appeasement" and who is a "real American."
And if God is the creator, then certainly he created the laws that nature follows too, and undertanding the laws of nature (science), leads one to an understanding of God. Religion is the study of the divine law of man, while science is the study of the laws of nature. The divine law of man, given to us by religion, must be applied to science to ensure science is used for Good and not Evil. They can and must be merged.
If religion is the study of "the divine law of man" and science is the study of the law of nature and thus the nature of God, then you are proposing God's law be placed under man's law.
Reightists have been using the "stabbed in the back by domestic cowards and traitors" since the Nazis invented the "Dolchstoss im Rücken" idea (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolchstoßlegende), but it was Bush's grandfather who actually gave banking aid to the Nazi's, and whose bank was closed under the Trading with the Enemy Act. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush.
The thought has occurred to me that John McMain might be a terrific negotiator Obama could appoint to speak to Iran, Hamas etc. after Obama wins the Presidency this November. Look how he negotiated with Hanoi to let him remain as a POW when the VC wanted to return him home after a relatively short time as a POW. (Might he have feared repercussions from the military for his admissions and propaganda lies he admitted to?) But wait, would the far right brand him as an appeaser? Heaven forbid!
Yes, Locust and SiouxRose: I think you are both 100% correct... it's not a war, its an occupation... wars are won/lost, but occupations always have to end someday. Plus that would be a good segway to possibly justify policies such as: cutting the budget of the Pentagon and the military (Maybe thats too much to hope for).