This is what the torturer's always say.

If everyone thinks back, we saw the real effects of this. Remember the year or so after 9-11 when there were all the bizarre and incorrect terror warnings? All those times they kept changing the color codes or issuing alerts at press conferences or telling everyone to go buy duct tape?

To me, that had to be what they were getting from the torture of human beings. I'm guessing they were torturing people who didn't know anything. But, one of the things that happens when you torture someone is that eventually they'll say anything to make the torture stop.

Of course, then the goons in the Administration love to govern by fear, so they were happy to run to microphones and issue a phony 'terror alert' based on what the poor guy being tortured said to make to the torture stop.

Long term of course it just made the whole terror warning system a national joke. Too many false alarms based on bad data. That's the real result of this .... beside the fact that we destroyed human beings along the way.

The lying concubine strikes again!

"America is different..." and I wonder who made it so? It used to be a nicer place, and more secure. Would be terrorists were sought out by law enforcement, with the aid of other countries, and sent to trial in public.

And as for the Anthrax, ain't it strange that the feeble investigations allowed have so far led back to the Bushies?

Let's have this settled in a court of law...the Hague

... and the anthrax attacks that followed ...

The 'anthrax attacks' were directed at the Senate Judicial Committee members who were standing in the way of packing the bench with Bush Crime Family retainers. Ask yourself what former Secretary of War had access to U.S. Army anthrax and the motive to use that terror weapon just to have his way with us. Hint: it's not UBL.

"Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Thursday defended tough interrogation techniques for terrorism suspects approved by the Bush administration in the wake of 9/11, saying they were necessary to protect America from new attacks."

Again:

"tough interrogation techniques" = torture
"terrorism suspects" = prisoners

The corrected version:

"Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Thursday defended the torture of prisoners approved by the Bush administration in the wake of 9/11, saying it was necessary to protect America from new attacks."

Condoleeza has blood, pain, and suffering on her hands - can't you sense it? I wouldn't want to be in her shoes or in the shoes of anyone with any affiliation with the current administration. Ah, but soon in the big scheme of things, she as well as the rest of the disconnected folks in DC will meet their fate.

Somehow it gives me solace to know that we are all equal in this way.

Peace,
Ken

"...she acknowledged that those rules had since changed and that the United States was a "different place" then ... it is a different America now than what has been and gone."

This is the "Let's not dwell on this, let's move on." defense. I wonder if Charles Manson is aware of his legal option here. Surely he is a different person today. It's all blood under the bridge. Why not forget about his little murder spree, since it all took place in another time.

If you believe in karma, then all I can say is that the U.S. must have horrible karma to have Bush, Cheney, Condiliesalot,Congress, and the rest of the crime family,torturers for leaders of our country.

buffalo_ken May 23rd, 2008 12:39 pm ...And what do you know that the rest of us do not? You think there will be justice? Maybe so, but not in this world!

willybill - we are all going to leave our earthly bodies eventually. Aren't we?

Okay, let's waterboard Rice and then see what she has to say.

"Come, you spirits
That tend on mortal thoughts;
unsex me here
And fill me from the crown to the toe
top full,
of direst cruelty"

Lady MacBeth

(Rice sez) "... that the United States was a 'different place' then ..."

Yes. It was a constitutionally limited democratic republic. Or, at least appeared to be so.

Bush and Rice have a wonderful relationship. She lies for him, and he gets a token minority AND woman on his staff.

Too bad the rest of the world pays the price for this relationship.

Critics are too tough on the Reich's treatment and interrogation of "terrorists."

Remember the kid gloves used when bin Laden family members across the U.S. were assembled on 9/12-13 and — no questions asked! — jetted home in first-class luxury while Americans were stranded by the shutdown of air traffic then in place.

The Boys (and Girls) from Brazil. Seems that old movie could be revised to "from Arabia", since the companys' are starting to be headquartered over there.

Condoleezza Rice is a WAR CRIMINAL who should be vigorously prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and put in a cage for the rest of her life.

She's a former top level Chevron executive, so she is the perfect Secretary of State for the Bush administration's corporate oil presidential team. Little wonder oil corporation profits are at record highs for 8 years and counting. Your getting screwed over at the pump is largely thanks to Rice, Cheney, Bush et al. So much for Mr. Bush's hollow promises of "cheap oil" after invading Iraq and taking all the Iraqi oil.

Black and female: obviously chosen by Bush/cheney to mitigate criticism of an otherwise white male Bush Administrative body. Bush executed more blacks while governor of Texas than any other governor in TX history.

...does this woman ever smile? She always has this scowling frown on her face. She always looks extremely pissed off, furrowed brow, finger wagging, lecturing us with more hollow Bush propaganda points.

Rice is perhaps one of the worst role models for college minorities to aspire to that I can think of. How unfortunate. She is ethically and morally bankrupt. I seriously doubt that MLK would be impressed with her, quite the opposite in fact. Yes she is black and female and Secretary of State--but look at the CONTENTS of the packaging: war criminal, shameless inveterate liar, she aided and abetted an invasion/occupation of a country leaving over 4,000 US soldiers dead, thousands more permanently limbless, not to mention reducing an entire country to rubble, AND according to the impartial and professional Lancet Survey there are a staggering 650,000 dead Iraqis as a result of her team of felons on the Bush administration.

This article confused me,

is it saying that the law changed after the interrogations following 9/11 and the Anthrax attacks;

if that is so, then if suspects were tortured as implied, the administration did not live up to the law or their obligations and did not observe "fine legal points"...

I am not sure that torture is an inappropriate response to 9/11.

I just think that if torture is the decision, it should be done to those behind these events.

9/11 was an inside job. Rice had foreknowledge and was certainly involved in it. So, should she be tortured, and her many other cronies in the White House, congress, secret services and various corporations?

Many people think they should all be at least tortured.

After all, the crime is mass and premeditated murder and it was used to deceive the American people and involve them in more genocide in Iraq and Afghanistan. What do you think their punishment should be?

Or should we just turn the other cheek, forgive them their arrogance, cruelty and stupidity?

I tend to be the forgiving type... but then, I am not one of those most affected.

Rice, the professional liar. Looks like she's prepping to be the VP candidate for McCain.

buffalo_ken May 23rd, 2008 12:49 pm ...Yes, but when it comes to this administration and these evil beings, I am impatient to see justice in the flesh.

""The fact is that after Sept. 11, whatever was legal in the face of not just the attacks of Sept. 11, but the anthrax attacks that happened, we were in an environment in which saving America from the next attack was paramount..."

IOW - laws do not apply when we say so. Yet, bin Laden and Anthrax Killer are still on the loose.

Plus, since twisted cultists Yoo, Baybee and Fredo "redefined" torture as if the alleged suspect is still breathing and not coughing up a lot of blood, it ain't torture, then "we" didn't torture. Except for the few dozen alleged suspects who actually did cough up blood and/or die, go insane, and/or kill themselves.

FBI? Condi says we never, ever torture or anything. Comments?

"These atrocities were described in a painful report by the Justice Department's inspector general, based on the accounts of hundreds of F.B.I. agents who saw American interrogators repeatedly mistreat prisoners in ways that the agents considered violations of American law and the Geneva Conventions. According to the report, some of the agents began keeping a "war crimes file" — until they were ordered to stop.

These were not random acts. "

If Condi didn't already have such a stellar rep as honest and trustworthy, we'd have reason to doubt her...

Key False Statements from "The Iraq Card," The Center for Public Integrity's analysis of the lies told in order to convince We The People an illegal invasion of Iraq was necessary:

"Condoleezza Rice, who was then Bush's national security adviser, followed Cheney that night on CNN's Late Edition. In answer to a question from Wolf Blitzer on how close Saddam Hussein's government was to developing a nuclear capability, Rice said: "We do know that he is actively pursuing a nuclear weapon. We do know there have been shipments going into . . . Iraq, for instance, of aluminum tubes that really are only suited to—high-quality aluminum tools that only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs."

Correction to a figure above of 650,000 dead Iraquis.

According to Opinion Research Business of the UK, approximately 1,446,063 Iraquis have died directly because of the Iraq invasion and occupation.

Another million or so died due to the embargos on Iraq during the Clinton years, and another two million died because of the First Iraq War of Bush I, and yet another two million died during the Reagan IraqProxy Iranian War, with Saddam as our guy in Bagdad, backed for decades by the CIA, until Saddam went off the reservation.

Why doesn't America just leave Iraq alone, and end poor Iraq's suffering of fifty years of torture by America.

Oh, and thanks a bunch Condi, for 'splainin' it all to me. Now you can go hit the WH gym showers again with who you for some reason call your 'husband', the Prez.

I'm sure glad someone remembered the biological attacks (anthrax). Has all this torture found the perps yet?

[cricket...cricket...cricket]

Way to go Condasleeza Rice. Oh I hope enjoyed your shopping trip for shoes back in '05 while my beloved New Orleans died and drowned you bitch!

A criminal is someone that is caught and convicted of a crime. If you are not caught or convicted then you are not a criminal. This group will never be caught or convicted because they are protected from any criminal action by those elected officials that are now in Washington DC. If you want justice you will have to do it yourself. It will not come from those that are now elected . . . Of that you can be sure.
Live with that or vote for a third party . . . If you have another suggestion I would love to hear about it. Other wise stop crying and take what you have elected. We have the government that we deserve . . . Elected by our votes . . . At least the votes that were counted.

Zamboni_fahrer,

I am glad you made those comments. They are a very important part of this discussion since Rice is often identified by our 'social engineers' as a critical role model for Blacks who have so little hope.

But, she and other war-makers and corporate profiteers implement policies of genocide/'war' that disproportionately and negatively affect Blacks.

Using her as a role model for Blacks is more like proposing Hitler be a role model for Jews (and sad to say, also not completely unsuccessful)!

(In both cases, and many others around the world,, the rape of the Blacks in this country and the rape of the Jews in Germany, has been used as a stepping stone to conditioning a group of people into becoming servile warriors for the empire that orchestrated their initial rape.

A few committed sociopaths are plucked (such as Rice) and given enormous privilege (and prominence, helping to disguise the basic racism and elitism underlying the program), while the remainder are forced to implement insane programs -- Israeli soldiers indoctrinated to butcher Palestinians and Black soldiers indoctrinated to butcher Iraqis -- against their own best instincts and interests.)

Just read the second to last paragraph again. Indeed we live in a different USA, one that is shameful in its activities and are at least partially attributable to her and her first class education and leadership at Stanford. She failed miserably. I have some Black friends, and even they cannot stomach her obvious devotion to the distorted Bush mind, which she admires so much.

One of Stanford's less desirable employees.

Rice is no role model for young black females. Cynthia McKinney is, so is Carol Moseley-Braun, and neither of them were ever seriously considered by the liberal anti-war movement. WHY!?!

Look at the picture and see the face of EVIL! The only thing missing is the blood on her hands.

Stanford will let us know what kind of institution it is when it either welcomes back this lying scum back or tells her to look for work elsewhere.

Condoleeza Rice is a very sick woman. She has lost her ability to distinguish right from wrong (if she ever had that ability). She had turned her back on America and everything it stands for to support fascist idealism and personal gain.
Looking at her face though, I do not see evil. Truly there are very few persons truly evil. What I see is greed. Her greed will never be satisfied. She will never have enough money or power to ever curb her hunger for more. That's because she has nothing inside and it's creating a vaccuum. Condoleeza Rice is not evil, she's hollow. I pity her.

Cynthia McKinney is a woman of such incredible presence, courage and intelligence...

She no doubt scares the bejeezus out the majority of hypocrites who rise to prominence in the alternative movements... most just vying for 'resume'.

Such clarity of thought and dedication to truth is not well-received in 'liberal' circles where 'get nowhere' and 'look good while not seriously affecting anything' are fundamental principles.

itsaNaziWorldOrder - thank you for addressing this, and thanks for past posts which I really appreciate. I have to say that a lot of liberals really do want change and are willing to work for it, but perhaps not willing to give up on some cherished history that the US was once a great country. If liberals are serious about change though, we need to admit that us whites are mostly to blame for the present state of affairs, and to start examining more closely and supporting our non-white leaders.

Liberals - condemning Rice is understandable, but don't stop with condemnation. Wholeheartedly support McKinney now. (Choosing another white male - Kucinich - over Carol Moseley-Braun in 2004 was a serious mistake.)

FYI:

(1) Waterboarding is not "simulated" drowning, it is drowning - stopping short of death (most of the time).

(2) Regarding "fine legal points": the U.S. Constitution did not change after 9-11 no matter how much Ms. Rice (or John Yoo) would like to believe so. It simply was voided and nullefied by this administration - period. Therefore,

(3) War criminals require prosecution!

Buffalo Ken: Speaking of shoes, Condi loves Ferragamos--that's what she was shopping for when New Orleans was being blown away. Wonder how she'll like standard issue shoes to go along with her day-glo orange suit if and when she ever pays her dues to society. God I hope she and the rest get what they deserve!

"If liberals are serious about change though, we need to admit that us whites are mostly to blame for the present state of affairs, and to start examining more closely and supporting our non-white leaders."

I think that color is a very bad indicator of who one should trust and respect. Understanding is. Blacks reared in this corporate/military culture have no better insurance than whites against the disease of elitism and the sociopathic tendencies this breeds.

'Black leaders' that I respect are respected by me not at all because they are Black, but because they have demonstrated intelligence, humility, commitment, courage and wisdom.

I have the same feelings about Whites, Browns, Reds, Yellows, and Blues (most of the world today).

Our fundamental problem is elitism. That must be understood and it must be opposed based upon an understanding of human (not Black or Brown or Yellow) nature.

When we finally get it right, each person will think less about his 'leaders' (and their colors) and more about the greater environment and his own connection to it.

At that point we will finally have exited the 'pyramidal' model (elite/military control paradigm that can be administered by anyone regardless of color) based upon denial and deceptions and embraced models of social and ecological interaction based upon natural law.

Humans are HERBIVORE by design.

"Man's separation from his own nature, introduced at birth and supported through lifelong orchestrated deceptions, enabled and continues to enable a human culture of supremacism and genocide (today, world-wide). "

From: http://allinharmony.org

@overkill - The Anthrax Attacks were also targeted at the news media - Tom Brokaw in particular. I thought at the time, and still do, that the immediate goal of the attacks was to railroad passage of the Patriot Act. Passage of that abomination was practically the first order of business once Congress reconvened after the capitol building was vacated due to potential contamination.

"...not willing to give up on some cherished history that the US was once a great country"

Entertaining half-truths and complete lies serves no one.

The US was founded upon genocide of both the nations and communities that existed prior to the invasions of the Russians, Spaniards and English and the environment.

Forests were logged, herds destroyed, lands forever changed by invasive species...

Next a 'war' was orchestrated by Masons tied to the lodge in England and France who also were given loans from the English and French to accomplish their 'revolution'.

The great 'father' of this nation was a slave owner.

So, we not only genocided the Indians and other indigenous animals (sorry folks but Indians and the Whites who killed them are both animals, monkey animals to be exact), and replaced these with Blacks from Africa and cows from Europe.

(A form of gardening the earth I suppose...)

What was next... oh yes, the industrialization with its child labor, the building of the railroads with the import of more slaves this time from China...

the dust bowl... more slaves.. with more Whites also being allowed to join the ranks of the slaves...

And let's not forget the operations of our military... genocide in the Philippines with the 'kill everyone over ten policy' that resulted in the death of possibly 2 million natives...

Great you say?

Great at what? Violence? Cruelty? Ignorance? Self-delusion?

I have a few other words to describe our 'greatness' but probably not appropriate for this audience.

It's not too late to impeach, to hold them responsible for what they have done to others, for what they have done to us, and to what they have done to the country. We deserve better. Acquiescence in favor of just getting them out of office on schedule does not undo the wrongs. Accountability. Are we a country of mice or of men and women? The world can't make us change, but we can make ourselves change. Let's not wait for Obama to take the oath. Demand that Congress and the Judicial branches do their jobs!

That photo is SICKENING! As if to say, "My hands are clean." Guess she rubbed the stains off on her bloody jacket.

The atrocities committed in the US have not been addressed or apologized for, and thus not fully recognized. I think therein lies a large part of the problem. We can point fingers at the currents misleaders, but they did not come about in a vacuum, and getting rid of them will not get rid of the underlying problems that brought them to the forefront. So I feel uncomfortable with all the finger-pointing at Rice. I think it is beside the point and not constructive. Dividing us into white and non-whites seems like further racism, but although most whites also don't have a lot of power, they do have the privilege of not being targeted by police, of looking the part of most employers (and thus having a better chance of getting a job), and any number of other privileges we are born to merely because of our genetic material. I think it important to recognize this and to try to change the fact that currently most people take for granted that the best leadership can be had in the form of a white male. Until we have a true balance in representation of all of us in leadership, I don't see that anything will change.

You want to talk torture. Imagine how the shoe salesperson feels that has to touch the hoofs of that she-devil.

Keep trying to put lipstick on a pig Condi, you're only digging the hole deeper. She's obviously shaking in her shoes as she sees the dark clouds gathering over the White House.

If there were a law that any official elected to a second term would be subject to investigation for up to 10 years on financial gains and international war crimes then maybe the candidates would have the concience and integrity the public deserves. When Dick and W did their final visit to the mideast you can bet they were making deals for their freinds future wealth and regard. 10 year audits manditoty please

If you defend torture, then it is easy as pie to defend the 9/11 attacks.

I do not condone, nor support and actively struggle against both torture and terrorism.

I am afraid that both forms of lower civil behaviour may be being carried out or condoned by the same parties.

Bring back sophistication, education (not the standardized kind), eloquence and truth.

She says "We know know more about how al Quaeda operates thanks to what we learned from those early detainees." WTF??? She's THANKING them for being tortured. Her immorality and inhumanity knows no bounds.

Rice states that they asked the question if it was legal. I would say rather that they asked the question if it was something they could get away with. Yoo answered "Yes" and it was a go... Rice is as corrupt as the men she cosies up to. A real disgrace to her gender.

"they were necessary to protect America from new attacks."

If your "protection" puts an indelible stain on the soul of the nation, that just says you have no idea what America is supposed to be all about.

Go protect yourself. I'd rather pay the price of honor.

kittyc, I can't think of a worse ticket than mccain/rice. Just look at her picture. She is always talking with her head down and looking at you out of the top of her eye sockets - the look of a very untrustworthy, sneaky person who has something to hide, which of course she does.
She's probably helping plan something right now that will keep this administration in power, something between now and January 20.