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TechnoratiBritish Contemplate 'Big Brother' Database For Phones and E-mails
A massive government database holding details of every phone call, e-mail and time spent on the internet by the public is being planned as part of the fight against crime and terrorism. Internet service providers (ISPs) and telecoms companies would hand over the records to the Home Office under plans put forward by officials.
The information would be held for at least 12 months and the police and security services would be able to access it if given permission from the courts.
The proposal will raise further alarm about a "Big Brother" society, as it follows plans for vast databases for the ID cards scheme and NHS patients. There will also be concern about the ability of the Government to manage a system holding billions of records. About 57 billion text messages were sent in Britain last year, while an estimated 3 billion e-mails are sent every day.
Home Office officials have discussed the option of the national database with telecommunications companies and ISPs as part of preparations for a data communications Bill to be in November's Queen's Speech. But the plan has not been sent to ministers yet.
Industry sources gave warning that a single database would be at greater risk of attack and abuse.
Jonathan Bamford, the assistant Information Commissioner, said: "This would give us serious concerns and may well be a step too far. We are not aware of any justification for the State to hold every UK citizen's phone and internet records. We have real doubts that such a measure can be justified, or is proportionate or desirable. We have warned before that we are sleepwalking into a surveillance society. Holding large collections of data is always risky - the more data that is collected and stored, the bigger the problem when the data is lost, traded or stolen."
David Davis, the Shadow Home Secretary, said: "Given [ministers'] appalling record at maintaining the integrity of databases holding people's sensitive data, this could well be more of a threat to our security, than a support."
The proposal has emerged as part of plans to implement an EU directive developed after the July 7 bombings to bring uniformity of record-keeping. Since last October telecoms companies have been required to keep records of phone calls and text messages for 12 months. That requirement is to be extended to internet, e-mail and voice-over-internet use and included in a Communications Data Bill.
Police and the security services can access the records with a warrant issued by the courts. Rather than individual companies holding the information, Home Office officials are suggesting the records be handed over to the Government and stored on a huge database.
One of the arguments being put forward in favour of the plan is that it would make it simpler and swifter for law enforcement agencies to retrieve the information instead of having to approach hundreds of service providers. Opponents say that the scope for abuse will be greater if the records are held on one database.
A Home Office spokesman said the Bill was needed to reflect changes in communication that would "increasingly undermine our current capabilities to obtain communications data and use it to protect the public".
© 2008 Times Online
36 Comments so far
Show All"Looks like were headed for a culture where the only place for a private conversation is in the forest or on a remote beach, while we constantly look over our shoulders."
Now that tiny cameras have been inserted into trees deep in the forests, even the bears are being scrutinized while they pee... nothing is sacred!
"A massive government database holding details of every phone call, e-mail and time spent on the internet by the public is being planned as part of the fight against crime and terrorism."
We could end terrorism tomorrow if this database simply recorded ALL the conversations of the various international secret service agencies that work hand in hand to foment all the wars and also orchestrate the Gladio style operations (9/11 for instance) against the citizens of the world…
AND THEN MADE ALL THESE CONVERSATIONS AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE ELSE!
There would be no more terrorism because the planners would have no secret places left in which to plot their dastardly activities!
Can we get up a petition? In fifty or so languages?
To demand a people's database to spies on ALL the spies 24/7?
Mass assembly at federal representatives' home offices, when they are at home and IN their offices, might have some effect.
There is a lot to be said for making the government AFRAID of us instead of us being afraid of the government.
just point them at the sun............simple.
They already did drive the mom and pop's out of business. I had no choice but to go there to get supplies. I hate that friggin place but whaddayas gunna do?
That Naomi Klein article is scary stuff.
mrrave500 and staying_sane, good links.
GKL, We have barn swallows where I live, I love those guys.
Here we go: F'ing 1984!
workreno May 20th, 2008 9:57 pm said:
"The easiest answer is DON"T SHOP AT HOME DEPOT."
And when the big box stores have driven all the mom and pop hardware stores out of town, what then?
The easiest answer is DON"T SHOP AT HOME DEPOT
rebelnow, I have good news for you. The Home Depot security system in Minnesota was broken by birds. Barn swallows figured out how to trip the electric eyes and open overhead doors. The birds then invaded and made nests in the store. You could probably find videos of this if you check the filkes of the local Minneapolis/St.Paul TV stations. If birds can figure it out, maybe clever humans could foil them too.
dreamcommontrue, I probably write too much and bore people. But it gets it out of my system.
Anyway, that's it for me for a while. I'm also tired! :)
Thanks "staying_sane" for the link to the stunning RollingStone article (with Q&A) by Naomi Klein ("Shock Doctrine" author).
I need a nap now.
Rafe Pilgrim writes: "Hey, I've got an idea: LET'S STOP IT NOW!"
Good luck with that, Rafe! Americans voted Bush in for a second term. So, it looks like you are going to have an uphill struggle trying to get support.
The English - or British as the English say ;) - have certainly been warned, but they don't care. You'll be shocked how many people say, "What have I got to hide?" They really aren't that bothered that someone is spying on their online activities, and they lack the imagination to see the potential dangers.
A lot of people seem to accept - or resign themselves to the fact - that those in positions of authority have rights that the rest of us are not entitled to.
The British will wake up once it is too late. Americans also seem asleep at the wheel.
If you want a normal life, my advice is try to get enough money to live somewhere else. America and Britain are a lost cause.
The title of the article is, "British Contemplate 'Big Brother'
Database For Phones and E-mails".
NO SHIT; not surprising at all, for it's deja-vu, given it's all
we've seen or had for the past several years, already. And a new
article by Fidel Castro provides a totally valid condemnation of
Europe because of it's siding with the LONG applied and criminal
(hellishly) sanctions against Cuba.
"kent shaw May 20th, 2008 12:58 pm
... I'm thinking that possibly extremely bright light may ruin
them. One can purchase multi-million candle power spot lights
at many different venues. I'm wondering if pointing these at
surveillance cameras might ruin them.
Samson May 20th, 2008 1:11 pm
maybe try low-tech. Like maybe a water balloon with some sort
of black paint.
kent shaw May 20th, 2008 1:23 pm
Somebody is gonna eventually chime in here with a really simple
and effective method. ..."
I DO NOT KNOW if this would do the trick, but what about burning
a little magnesium in front of the camera lenses? If humans look
at the light emitted from burning mag., then we will go [blind],
so ...?
If it would work and the metal's not expensive, then I imagine that
little would be needed; perhaps enough to burn for 10-15 seconds,
even (maybe?), and just a small piece of mag. And if this would
work and people wanted to use this method, then it'd be as simple (?)
as just hanging a little strip of mag. in front of the lense and then
giving it the match, i.e., lit match, treatment. Maybe it'd even work
when it's raining, which, if it would, might be a good time to perform
these little acts of political correctness; trying to correct anyway.
After all, when it's raining, fewer people tend to want to be outdoors.
In Britain, people's behavior is being controlled more and more via surveillance. The British are being conditioned to obey authority unconditionally, and at all times. Laws that were implemented to prevent terrorism and serious organized crime are being used by local government for such mundane tasks as finding out if a child lives in an area that qualifies him or her to attend a particular school. One mother was watched, with notes being taken, such as "All lights in the house are on, curtains open. Target is getting into car with three children."
And now people whose dogs foul the sidewalk are also being tailed. As someone pointed out, if this "work" gets outsourced to private contractors, they will have a field day with all this power of surveillance. It's even possible garbage has been rifled through in some cases.
"Local council uses snooping laws to spy on three-year-old":
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/11/poole_council_ripa/
"Spy regs [regulations] used against dogs, litterbugs":
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/28/ripa_council_dog_fouling/
Onion router that does multiple proxy forwarding to hide your web surfing identity:
http://www.torproject.org/
Not to add to the paranoia, but, some cameras are decoy cameras while the real ones are hidden elsewhere.
Look in your own mirror, America. It can happen, probably has already happened here without the press release the English were extended.
.
Why does it happen, America? Two possible reasons: (1) We don't mind, (2) we allow it.
.
What blows my mind is WHY we don't mind, WHY we allow it.
.
Hey, I've got an idea: LET'S STOP IT NOW!
In Britain, it's far, far worse than you think, jcrum. Soon, people's behavior in their community will be monitored, and if it's not up to expected standards of friendliness, if you're not sociable enough, measures will be taken to ensure your community's cohesion is not harmed:
"Neighbourhood Watch 2.0: Your tensions are being monitored":
"'Extremist' candidates (the document doesn't define them) standing at local elections, local demonstrations, 'issues' potentially detrimental to community cohesion and 'local political situations' are all grist to the tension monitoring group's mill."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/15/communities_tension_monitoring/
CJM
'but just wait until they want to retrieve something specific'
they'll fabricate it......................simple.
jcrumb writes: "Jeezis CHRIST! What the HELL is going on in the UK? let alone the world?"
What's happening in the UK is the result of the utter stupidity of the British public.
"What have you got to hide" is the oft-repeated refrain when you condemn such surveillance. Biometric ID cards? "The Europeans have ID cards!"
I always thought it was the British who should have got what the Russians got under "Communism".
In Britain, some buses (it'll probably be all buses, eventually) have large flat screen TVs cycling through the images of the cameras on the vehicle.
The monitors are placed at the front of the bus on single-deckers, and on the top deck on larger buses. It's so that all passengers get the message that they are being watched, that they are high-security prisoners being transported from one incarceration unit to another - so you had better behave!
You get to see people sitting down, the empty seats, the area where prams and bags are placed, and yourself if the camera happens to be looking in your direction.
The British have no self-respect, either for their country or for themselves anymore. As for intelligence? You won't find much of it in the UK.
The link to the article jcrum mentioned is below. It's terrifying the lack of reaction to all this - unless you're British, of course, in which case, WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO HIDE? WELL, JCRUM? We're watching you! ;)
"China's All-Seeing Eye":
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20797485/chinas_allseeing_eye
"About 57 billion text messages were sent in Britain last year, while an estimated 3 billion e-mails are sent every day."
Having worked in IT for a phone company, where the only data that needs to be recorded are details of the calls (where from, where to, routing, time start, time connected, time end, etc etc etc multiplied by millions per day), and seen how much space even that takes, let me assure you that this is simply not going to happen. They might be foolish enough to try, and they might even manage to store some of the data -- but just wait until they want to retrieve something specific.
Of course, that is over and above the fact that many phones are not registered (or are stolen), emails are easily routed through other people, etc.
As I wrote, it will not work (although I am quite prepared to work on it for a number of years to prove that). Better to have a chip implanted in everyone's brian which transmits thoughts back to BB -- anyone who enters the wrong part of his brain or has impure thoughts is either terminated or returned for re-programming.
Good article, mrraven500.
P.S. burning cameras with tires is not the most environmentally sound way to go...
http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/02/temporarily_blind_surveil.html
Kent shaw L A S E R P O I N T E R x 6 (for example) My post with links was censored. :( I'll try again
w w w. naimark . n e t / projects/zap/ h o w t o. h t m l
all together now, after the count of three:
do you hear the people sing?
singing a song of angry men
it is the music of the people
who will not be slaves again
when the beating of your heart
echoes the beating of the drums
it is a life about to start
when tomorrow comes
will you join in our crusade
who will be strong and stand with me
beyond the barricade
is there a world you long to see?
then join in the fight that will give you the right to be FREE.......
'LES MISERABLES'
Somebody is gonna eventually chime in here with a really simple and effective method. Wouldn't it be funny to find out that a simple laser pointer from Staples could damage these things? Of course laser pointers would be pulled off the market rather quickly.
maybe try low-tech. Like maybe a water balloon with some sort of black paint.
http://www.northcountryradio.com/Articles/ccd.htm
I've been trying to "google" a way to damage these cameras. I'm thinking that possibly extremely bright light may ruin them. One can purchase multi-million candle power spot lights at many different venues. I'm wondering if pointing these at surveillance cameras might ruin them.
Last week I went to Home Depot and parked near a lamp post with a sign that read, "These premises are under surveillance in order to insure continued low prices". WTF??
Jeezis CHRIST! What the HELL is going on in the UK? let alone the world?
have you read this months Rolling Stone? An article on Chinas "Golden Shield" is..well folks...THE END!
No SHIT people...the END!
I also find it ..ALARMING that those who declare this "plan" .."A STEP TOO FAR" say nothing about it being a THREAT TO FREEDOM, A THREAT TO PRIVACY, A THREAT TO PERSONAL AUTONOMY...NO..THEY ONLY SEEM TO BE AFRAID THAT..THE INFORMATION MIGHT BE LOST OR STOLEN...
DUHHHH! As if that were the problem..the problem is the OBVIOUS QUELLING OF POLITICAL DISSENT THAT OCCURS WHEN PEOPLE BEILIEVE..NAY...KNOW...THAT THEY ARE BEING WATCHED ALL THE TIME...EVERY SECOND..FROM HOME TO WORK AND AT WORK AND BACK AGAIN...
UNIONS?..UNION ORGAINIZING AT WORK? WHAT IF WALMART HAD YOU WATCHED EVERY STEP OF YOUR DAY? AND AFTER WORK..BEFORE WORK..YOUR CALLS, YOUR EMAILS, YOUR ..EVERYHTING..WITH THEIR RECORD ON UNION BUSTING?..AND ON AND ON..AND ON..EVERY CORPORATE ENTITY CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS..EVERY GOVERNMENT DROOLING AT THE THOUGHT OF A DOCILE AND TERRIFIED PUBLIC..HOW IS NO PRIVACY MAKING US "SAFER" IS THERE ANY PROOF OF THIS?
The US has a "watch list" of 900,000 people...which is ridiculous..if there are 900,000 "terrorists" in the us..then it is already OVER...no...this is all going in one direction...the end of political freedom, of labor reform, of unions, of democracy, of privacy..do you realize that China is now putting the cameras in HOMES? did you know that?
Yep! in Tibet..where MONKS are considered "political criminals" the motion sensor activated cameras are a disturbing bummer for their meditations...humming along when a moth passes by the sensor...the point? that it is now being done on Earth...CAMERAS IN PRIVATE DWELLINGS DIRECTLY LINKED TO THAT NATIONS "SECURITY SERVICES"
Folks! is it TIME YET? do we start destroying these spies on every corner? is it time?
I am going on the record..I will do EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO DISABLE OR OTHERWISE RENDER INOPERABLE, ANY GOVERNMENT OR COUNTY OR POLICE CAMERA NOT DIRECTLY POINTED AT AN IMPOUND YARD OR OTHER PRIVATE CITY OF STATE OR FEDERAL FACILITY..AND EVEN THOSE ARE.."SUBJECT TO MY PERSONAL MOOD AT THE TIME.."
IF THAT CAMERA CAN SCAN THE STREET, OR ANY OTERH ASPECT OF THE PUBLIC SPACE...THEN IT IS AN INVASION OF PRIVACY, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND THEREFORE MY...DUTY..TO DISABLE..IN THE NAME OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS..WHOM, IF ABLE TO SEE WHAT WSA GOING ON WITH THIS COMPLETELY UNCHECKED ABUSE OF POWER..WOULD NEVER STOP THROWING UP...
No..this is it folks..it is here..this is now official..no longer the realm of fantasy, or paranoia..thisis happening..so..if you cannot bring yourself to stop suporting it with your tax dollars, and if you cannot take the time to seriously make your dissaproval known to your "representatives" and those "leaders" allowing..nay..HUNGRY for this to continue to expand..then at least...you can work within your own life to do what you can to counter..to COUNTER THIS INSANE PLAN TO WATCH ALL OF US EVERY WHERE WE GO..YOU INCLUDED!..HEY..HERE'S AN IDEA..
WHY DON'T WE SHOW "THEM" WHAT IT MEANS TO BE WATCHED..AS IN..START SURVIELLING OUR "LEADERS" AND LOCAL WEALTHY FOLKS..AND THEN..POST THE STUFF ON YOUTUBE? HOW ABOUT THAT...LESSONS IN SURVIELLANCE REALITY..MIGHT WORK..AND IT IS NON-VIOLENT..BUT THEN SO IS JUST NOT PAYING..
I GUESS IT'S JUST SIMPLY..........OVER!
LOT'S O LUCK IN THE NEW REALITY...
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Years ago while in college, a friend of mine was studying Russian as part of her political science major. Her class went to the Soviet Union and came back with tales of constantly being under surveillance, of trying to have conversations with other students only to be hushed. Conversations had to wait until they were outside, in remote areas, but even there everyone was constantly looking over their shoulders. She described a culture of paranoia and fear, no one was to be trusted because everyone assumed that they were being listened to.
Looks like were headed for a culture where the only place for a private conversation is in the forest or on a remote beach, while we constantly look over our shoulders.
9-11 and 7/7 changed everything. It gave these corrupt governments the chance to spy on its citizens "legally."