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That's What Saddam Said
BAGHDAD - The war is over on Sixth Street, where Sahar al-Jawari's family lives in a modest brick house. Dust has filled the shrapnel holes in concrete fences, stagnant water has pooled in the crater left by a roadside bomb, and the ash and the few charred chunks of the Iraqi police car that the bomb blew up are barely visible on the sidewalk.
But Jawari, 33, has little faith that her life is about to improve. Every night the wind carries the sounds of gunshots and occasional explosions from other parts of Baghdad, where the war still goes on. Every day is a struggle to get by in a city that gets only four hours of power and running water a day. Jawari is divorced and unemployed, but Iraq's weak government gives her no financial aid. Nor does it make her deadbeat ex-husband pay her child support to help raise her 12-year-old daughter, Roula.
"We have no money, no electricity, no water, no security, no future, nothing," Jawari says. "Maybe in 50 years it will get better."
Many Iraqis in this part of southwestern Baghdad say the same thing. They have little hope for help from a government that has been unable to deliver even the most basic services, and little faith in the Iraqi security forces, tainted by their past association with sectarian militias and infamous for defecting under fire.
And although American forces have effectively established security in the streets here, every time residents go outside, bomb craters, bullet holes and buildings damaged by explosions remind them of the sectarian violence that raged here less than a year ago.
Sahar and Roula live with Sahar's mother, Salimah, and her two nieces, Basmah, 16, and Thohara, 14. The girls' mother, Jawari's sister, died of kidney disease 12 years ago: Because of the United Nations' sanctions and mismanagement by the dictatorial government of Saddam Hussein, Baghdad's hospitals did not have the proper medicine to treat her, and the family could not afford to send her abroad for surgery. The girls' father, an engineer, died last year of a heart attack.
"He could not bear what we are suffering in Iraq," Jawari says.
On a recent afternoon, the women and girls gathered in the kitchen to listen to Jawari's aunt, Nuriyah, who lives in Denmark and came to Baghdad to visit her family. Nuriyah immigrated to Denmark 10 years ago.
"Over there, we live in heaven," Nuriyah told them. "All the people there are good. They help everyone, even Iraqis. They send me a social worker to clean my house once a week. They give me health insurance. And every 14 days a nurse comes and gives me my medicine -- for asthma, for high sugar content in my blood, for cholesterol and high blood pressure."
Jawari shook her head.
"They take care of them as though they were little children," she said. "I want to go to Denmark, any place, just to leave Iraq. What is here for me?"
"That's a pretty pessimistic view. Iraq is going to get better," interjected U.S. Army Lt. Rusty Mason, whose platoon was patrolling Sixth Street that day and who stopped by Jawari's house.
"People are giving their lives to improve the life here: American soldiers, other soldiers," said Mason. Four soldiers from his platoon were killed not far from Sixth Street in March when an explosively formed projectile, one of the devices that U.S. forces say are supplied to Iraq's sectarian militias by Iran, pierced the armor of their Bradley fighting vehicle. "Iraqis are giving their lives."
"We saw nothing good," Jawari shot back.
Her family fled the violence that engulfed Sixth Street last summer, when Sunni and Shiite militias battled each other in the streets of this neighborhood, Saidiyah. The women stayed with relatives in another part of Baghdad, and when they returned, they found their door broken and their computer and television missing.
The government said it would give all returning refugees a one-time payment of approximately $900 to help them resettle in their homes. But in Saidiyah, where almost 400 families have returned since February, only 285 have received the money, said Lt. Col. Johnnie Johnson, whose 4-64 armor battalion of the Fourth Brigade, Third Infantry Division, patrols the area. Jawari's family was not among them.
The family depends on the government-issued ration cards, which all Baghdad residents receive to buy heavily subsidized rice, flour, oil, sugar and chickpeas. To pay for electricity, clothes and the rare treats of meat or fried fish -- once every month or two -- Jawari and her mother have been selling their jewelry. They also sold a plot of land they had owned in the country. Even on a diet of rice, eggs and pasta, the family spends between $250 and $400 a month.
Mason tried words of encouragement.
"Things will get better," he said. "The security is already better. Hopefully, soon the power will get better in all of Iraq."
Jawari shrugged.
"Under Saddam Hussein that's what they used to tell us, too: This will get better, that will get better, the power will get better. And -- nothing," she showed Mason the empty palms of her hands. Then she added, in English, for emphasis: "Never."
Anna Badkhen, 32, has covered wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Israel and the Palestinian territories, Chechnya and Kashmir. From 2002 to 2004 she was the San Francisco Chronicle's Moscow bureau chief.
Copyright © 2008 Truthdig, L.L.C.
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56 Comments so far
Show AllThis is just what this administration wants. Take away everything from everybody and leave them with nothing but hope and prayers. Why not provide people with what they need so they don't need prayers? This will keep the religious quacks to a minimum.
Looks like the Iraqi's replaced one thug with another thug.
Just what the great GW promised, MORE OF NOTHING! More killing, more hardships, more unemployment while the US taxpayers pay $3 Trillion to US contractors getting rich!
Is Saddam still hanging around?
^^^^^ In many ways he is.
Hey Paul why are you saying/blaming the Iraqis?
It was the stinking government of the fucking USA that replaced one thug with another, get it straight man. For truth's sake if nothing else.
Fuck the USA.
Hehehehe, funny.
What these people need is a massive shipment of 'Linkin Park' CDs air-dropped into Nineveh.
"The sacrifice is never knowing why I never walked away..." - Linkin Park
Kenneth Nuti
Medford, MA
Destroying Iraq was and is a bipartisan goal of the United States. In the 1980s, Iraq was the most advanced of Arab societies with a secular government and real opportunities for women. This situation couldn't be allowed to stand.
First Bush I and the Gulf War, followed by the Clinton Administration's brutal sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children and prevented Iraq from rebuilding its infrastructure (the US blocked medical equipment, equipment to repair sewage treatment plants, oil refining equipment, etc). And now Bush II with his illegal war that has killed thousands and left literally several million homeless.
Mission Accomplished.
About three weeks before the invasion of Iraq began, there was a ten minute segement on CNBC where an Iraqi businessman was discussing the threats of Bush and the coming war with a newscaster. The man was preparing to permanently leave his country that day.
I'll never ever forget his words and body language. I can see his face today. In a calm but very saddened voice, he stated that he was not a Saddam supporter and everyone knew the Americans could take Saddam out, but before it was all said and done we Americans would wish Saddam was still in power and that we had never invaded their country.
Right then, a very bad feeling about it all just swooped down over me, a feeling that never has left me. The man was so right and I knew for certain right then that he was.
Disappointing what is happening in Iraq. What is happening in Iraq really upsets me. It is just too much. It is BS unjust, immoral etcetera of what is happening there. It upsets me! Words cannot express how upset I feel about what Iraq is going through. Likewise, words are unable to articulate how sorry I feel about what Iraqi people (regardless of stripe) go through. It must be a literal Hell on Earth there. I am so sorry...
One belief that I will carry with me to my dying day is that the USA double-crossed Saddam Hussein. Yes! The USA DID double-cross him. Some people may give me evidence to the contrary but...NO I will not believe it!
If you think this is bad, wait until the balkanization of Iraq into Kurdish, Sunni, and Shia states is over and done.
NONE of this is an accident.
Iraq was just 'another shitty little country thrown up against the wall' by US foreign policy.
It will be the mother of all wars... he was right about that!
Consider this: The more politically evolved countries on the planet have adopted social democracy, guaranteeing all their citizens the necessities of life, without prohibiting anyone from amassing wealth. Yes, they have high taxation rates to enable all citizens a decent standard of living and other benefits, but notice that none of these countries - especially in Scandinavia - have started wars of aggression in modern times. You can either have a welfare state, as some ignorant folks disparagingly put it, or a warfare state, with all the attendant misery. Which would you rather have??
As Truthmonger stated in the first post, when people have nothing and are in despair, that's when the religious zealots can move in and stir the cauldron of ignorance and hate. You don't see an excess of this in these countries either.
I keep trying to see the bottom but there is none, only death.
Yo old wise ones,
white rose = F... you,move on to north korea where you
belong then see what life is really all about.
dfairley = as you have never been to Iraq or out of the
USA shows. Like white rose never been there - don't know.
Once, years ago Iraq was a good place and will become so
thanks to the USA in a short time. Best moslem nation in
this area is Turkey. ALL women & men can vote. Woman can
& have been in the highest part of government, Iraq = never
happened. Turkey is the moslem woman area for real
opportunities. You all need to travel or at least put up
your funny books & smokes and check out what is going on in
this world. Such bad vibes.
Ahuramazda do you not know freedom isn't free or easy.
'course you have never been to the middle east or Iraq so
try to understand, in the long run this war will not only
set this nation free but so many others in the area & maybe
onward with the rest of the world. Look way down the road
what the future of the human race can be, may be, should be.
Freedom, decent life & respect for all. You, folks in the
USA have it easy & hard for you to understand the present
middle east form of life. Wake up, support freedom,
don't you know if one person is a slave, we all are!
Americans are such self centered, me only first is the
real sad point. Sacrifice - respect of other persons -
honor. Don't know, huh? Look it up! Grow up.
Become a real human being, no longer a parisite.
hopefull,
George
your neocon, retired army combat officer, Texican a n d
been there 8 years.
Just what Bush wanted. That's correct. But the emphasis is wrong. The goal of the Bush administration was to steal as much money as they could for their friends and contributors. Fund the Bush campaign with 10's of thousands of dollars, get back millions in no-bid contracts.
The Iraqis getting screwed is just a side-effect. A price they are willing to pay to steal millions. And of course, they've crippled any chance of Iraq having a decent recovery from all that we destroyed in our bombings and wars.
RE: NMBill May 19th, 2008 2:13 pm
"It will be the mother of all wars… he was right about that!"
Bill, I think what he actually said was, "Mother of all battles", but in more than this he was correct because this has never been legally declared by Congress (who must do so under law) as a WAR. The pre-emptive attack against Iraq is an internationally recognized crime against humanity, even in the UN, and the instigators should/must be prosecuted accordingly.
Freedom isn't free. We always have to fight the military types that always want to take it away. The military types will always tell you that their non-freedom is rebranded as what they call 'freedom'. You are free to do exactly what the military tells you that you can do.
Remember, the founding fathers thought that a permanent standing military was the greatest of all the threats to the freedom they had just fought for.
It's hard to find any significant difference between Saddam Hussein and george bush but there are a few.
1. Both of them locked up 'undesirables' in secret prisons and tortured them.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/01/national/main3441363.shtml
The tortured victims of both are not allowed any legal counsel either. The difference here is that bush has secret military tribunals to determine guilt based on confessions derived by torture. The transcripts of those tribunals is always destroyed or lost but there is a 'trial' nonetheless. Saddam just killed them outright.
2. bush is actively persuing nuclear weapons. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-07-06-nuclear-usat_x.htm and Saddam Hussein was not.
3. bush ordered pre-emptive attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. he fully occupied Iraq. he also has threatened Syria, Iran, and other Muslim nations. Saddam Hussein only attacked Iran and attempted to occupy Kuwait.
4. Saddam Hussein had 2 sons that were spoiled rotten brats. bush has 2 daughters that are spoiled rotten brats.
5. Saddam Hussein united his country in fear. bush divided his country in fear.
6. bush lied to his country about Iraq. Saddam told the truth to his country about America.
7. Saddam Hussein was intelligent. bush is not.
8. Saddam Hussein faced death with bravery. bush will face his with cowardice.
major hutton, or is it mutton?
I've never been to Iraq, but I know that the Iraqis didn't replace one thug with another, we did. We do have a stinking government. We have a monster a-hole in the oval office, in fact I could argue that we have more a-holes in the white house right now than in all the prior administrations combined. Well, excepting Reagan, he employed the second largest band of crooks.
Of course the destruction of Iraq has been bipartisan. Unless you believe that Clinton was really just "Republican Lite", in which case I agree with you on this one.
The only way our presense in the middle east will quiet things down is if we kill everyone there. That's not something the American people will buy into. So there must be another reason. Oil maybe? Of all the places where we could have intervened in the world to do good, Dumbya picked Iraq because they have oil. There was no plan to democratize anything, there still is no plan beyond "get 'em to sign over the oil rights".
Send Bush and crew to The Hague and let them spend the next 5 years in Milosevic's old cell on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
As bad as Saddam was, we be much better off today if 6 years ago we'd simply lifted the embargo.
Naturally the Iraqi's could have free health care, jobs, infrastructure projects, running water, security and dignity if they had control of their oil and a benevolent government. But that is not possible as long as the Neo-Con experiment in imperialism is allowed to go on. None of Iraq's neighbours are suffering as much under their own brutal dictatorships, yet our faux system of democracy is supposed to be a beacon of light for the Middle East. In reality all of Iraq's neighbours are shaking in their boots wondering when the high-tech, US bombing machine will come to visit them.
Yo Samson,
BBEEEEP, wrong. Small professional Military was needed
with everyone owning/having his own weapon. This way
the citizen soldier + Professionals would keep the nation
free. Reread your history, dude. Remember that our
military is lead by the non-elected Non-military folks.
Commander-in-Chief, Sec of Defence to Sec of Army & down.
On bottom is the Generals (who have trained for & been in
combat)whos advice is not always taken by the civilian folks.
True Sam, us military folk do follow orders (lawful
orders of course). As you have never served you would not
know that. Fact is military have to think all the time, not
just BS but produce. Sacrifice is their standard. That is
why you should always thank a vet or active military person
whenever you see one/ He/she gives your freedom. Stands
guard at the wall to stop the barbarians. So enjoy life
but remember who it is you really owe.
George
your favoright neocon, retired army combat officer & Texican
"mother of all battles" I can buy that.
major hutton is right about one thing; "don't you know if one person is a slave, we all are!"
Samson-
It is not the military that wants to take away our rights and freedoms. It's the religious.
If they feel that you are exercising a right that they do not feel is personally 'moral', they will try to take it away. They profess a deep contempt toward all other religions and want to unite the 'christian brotherhood' as "One Nation", sweeping all other religions under the rug in the process and turning the government into a fantical theocracy.
Religious people are the true enemies of freedom, their bloody hands are the ones working the war machine, they lie about and spit their hate against homosexuals while they themselves are homosexual (Larry Craig is a perfect example), and their hypocrisy is boundless.
Add up every freedom we've lost in the last 8 years under the bush adminstration and you will see each one wedged between the filthy pages of the bible.
"we're half-awake in a fake empire" - "Fake Empire" by The National.
Unfortunately Iraqis and Burmese are fully awake in a nightmare.
Bush's supporters are fully asleep in their fake empire. They dream of how they are heroes for what they've done - kill people who have nothing to do with Bin Laden and at the same time strike a blow to Bin Laden; gut the Constitution and at the same time be champions of democracy. In a dream you can do two or more mutually exclusive things and receive all the benefits without any of the cost.
They keep bringing up WWII because to them, the "war on terror" is on the same epic scale only, thanks to the wonders of Republican wizardry, far far cheaper. So 4000 US dead is nothing. What we do to Iraq is nothing, look what we did to multiple countries during WWII and it all turned out good. $3 trillion? No way. The war is free, Iraq will pay for itself. So they sleep on, only angered by those who try to wake them.
major hutton--you are a great representative of the neocon mind. Your posts make no sense!
Ahuramazda--there is no doubt you are right. The U.S. double-crossed Saddam. They were worried he was going to double-cross them.
I do so enjoy this slate and the posts of Samson, resistor, Ahuramazda, KEM PATRICK, white rose, nicnews, truthmonger, Galen, TheLorex, and nondescript. It gives me hope for America, the country that I love, now under the evil forces of greed.
Barack today attracted a crowd of some 80,000 in Oregon and the news lady on MSNBC called it a "boring sunday"
Two polls available for tue's primarys and MSNBC picks the one having a 4% lead for Barack in Oregon not the 55% - 35%. I remember the NC and IN primarys not at all as predicted by the polls and same news scorces.
George,
I doubt many of us here would have a problem with the military "standing at the wall" to defend our freedoms. But how is Iraq anywhere near our border? Unless you're promoting a worldwide wall, that's not a valid answer, outside of some video game.
You're right about a small, personal military being a good idea; but what does that have to do with the US? We have the world's largest military, both in total size and per capita, of any country in the world. We spend more than the rest of the world combined (yes, including China, Russia, Europe, Africa, Antarctica, even San Marino).
Please better explain what we are protecting in Iraq, so that we can better understand where you're coming from. Platitudes are inadequate.
Wait til the powers that be bring the lessons of Iraq back home.
Sectarian fighting and all - worthless money, no electricity, expensive food.
All prisoners
think about it !
"died of kidney disease 12 years ago: Because of the United Nations' sanctions and mismanagement by the dictatorial government of Saddam Hussein, Baghdad's hospitals did not have the proper medicine to treat her"
United Nations' sanctions specifically did not include medical supplies. This was the US administration's (mainly Clinton's) idea -- ILLEGAL sanctions on medical supplies.
Major Mutton, are you freaking kidding? General Patton said that no poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country, he won it by making the OTHER poor bastard die for HIS country. So that's the status of human life in this 'modern' world. Kill the OTHER poor bastard first, who thinks he is fighting for HIS country. And our own poor soldiers in Iraq are not going to win that war by dying either. They should now come home.
And you seem to imply that civilians who 'weren't there' or 'haven't served' should have NO say in any matters of state or in any matters of war, that all decisions should ideally be purely military ones, and that you have contempt for those who 'never served'. How Adolf Hitler of you.
You, sir, are a gunslinger in search of an enemy, in order to justify the global overkill budget of the American military machine. And your kind have found one (much to the delight of the hard-right NeoCons and Israeli Zionists) in 'terrorism', a war on a word, so a war that will never end. How perfect for you.
And no, it is not that I disparage Americans that truly defend this nation, and liberty and freedom. Sometimes this is an unhappy necessity. These free people I salute, though I will not to them kowtow, nor would I expect that these real patriots would want me to, indeed they would expect me not to.
But I must raise a voice against those persons, be they politician or commander, who would sell out this nation, its soldiers, and liberty and freedom themelves, by waging illegal wars and unnecessary wars and bad wars that do NOTHING for the REAL DEFENSE of this nation, simply for their own blind ambitions, lust for power, greed, or perhaps even their stupidity and arrogance.
And I must also protest the over-arming of this United States to the degree that today it is no longer a beacon of light to be emulated by the world, but is now seen as a malevolent source of evil by that wider world, that the wider world lives 'in terror' of us.
Read the Declaration of Independence to see the founders cared very much for the good opinions of all of humankind for their endeavors. The founders did not threaten the rest of the world with obliteration if any did not go along, as our politicians do today. The founders did not order other nations to obey and do what the leader of America "expects them to do" or face destruction at the hands of the military, as Bush does today. The founders did not, as Dick Cheney did when informed that the entire world and the majority of citizens of the United States had a bad opinion of the Iraq War and were of the opinion it should end, say "So?" to the opinions of humankind.
Soldiers can serve evil as well... indeed, they serve it very well, as you must be fully aware of if you are the student of history you say you are. And America has no special dispensation from the evils and faults that can exist in the minds and hearts of the powerful of whatever nation or time. We must always beware first and foremost of ourselves, and avoid entanglements, as George Washington pointed out, and the Constitution attempts to guard us from the evils and faults of human frailties as best a human construction can (and has done a pretty good job overall, and it will continue do so -unless ALL the branches are ruled by one corrupt junta, a thing undreamed-of then, but becoming more and more a possible reality today).
As General Eisenhower indicated, there are no such things as 'preventive' or 'pre-emptive' wars. So where does that leave that chickenhawk Bush, or that chickenhawk Cheney, vis a vis Iraq? It leaves them as war criminals waging an illegal war, and conducting an illegal occupation, as proscribed by the Nuremburg Trials and The Genevea Conventions and The United Nations Charter and the ratified laws of this country. Is this the leadership you slavishly follow? If so, then I rest my case against your beliefs, and warn fellow Americans away from your misguided thoughts.
If you wish to learn something, read the Chalmers Johnson trilogy, BLOWBACK, THE SORROWS OF EMPIRE, and NEMESIS: THE LAST DAYS OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC. These are the defining works on the current Bush/Cheney/NeoCon era of militarism as the total foreign policy of the United States.
And, in response, to Mr. Bush's "Mission Accomplished," and to his recent idiotic pontifications before the Israeli Knesset, I am reminded of a line spoken by Isabella from Shakespeare's "Measure for Measure:"
"Merciful heaven,
Thou rather with thy sharp and sulphurous bolt
Splits the unwedgeable and gnarlèd oak
"Than the soft myrtle; but man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd—
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
"Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep; who, with our spleens,
Would all themselves laugh mortal."
~ Measure For Measure Act 2, scene 2, 114–123
Major hutton, your post is ignoring the point, which is not about whether or not the soldiers are good men trying to do a difficult job, which most of them are. Instead, it's about whether or not the Iraq war is a just war, which it isn't, and whether or not the US should get out of Iraq, which it should.
The US has ruined the lives of the people of Iraq, and its soldiers should not be there. That's the point, and just because a person isn't in the military has nothing to do with whether they have a right to speak their mind about it.
Even though I'm not in the military, I don't think the soldiers are bad people. But you might convince some people they are if you keep on making posts like the one you just did.
Major Hutton, Anyone that retired as a major obviously does not know a whole fuckin' lot about anything. In my time only the below average officers retired as majors. Usually due to low education levels, low performance scores or high levels of bullshit from their mouths. Sorry to be so blunt, Sir.
Retired CSM, US Army 1958-1983. Yes, I'm old but not yet senile, Sir!
Yes, continually amused, and the same George Bush who has continually used the internationally recognized weapon of mass destruction known as depleted uranium despite it's use being also recognized as a crime against humanity. If I was a deviant uncaring SOB like John McSame I would cavelierly say, "So?", but there are many decent people who regard such a flippant attitude as criminally conspiratorial. And your point about Saddam was?
In case you haven't noticed, Bush and Co. are doing much the same thing in the US as they are in Iraq, they are simply using different weapons.
During the Bush Administration, the US has experienced serious inflation and a declining dollar, disappearance of the middle class, erosion of constitutionally protected freedoms, usurpation of powers by the president, complete neglect of the environment and infrastructure, rampant election fraud, and a massive propaganda effort that would make Hitler proud. Under his watch, FEMA completely abdicated it's responsibility to the poor people of New Orleans. Corporate profits and executive pay are at very high levels, while the typical American has lost significant purchasing power.
This list could go on for pages; however, the message should be clear, Bush is at war with everyone except the wealthy, he is working to destroy us - without bombs. Since it is too late for the poor people of Iraq, maybe we should begin watching our own backs.
"Is this the same Saddam that GASSED his own countrymen?"
continually amused -
And where did he get the GAS from? Did he make it out of sand?
As one example-
Dec. 1988 - Dow Chem. sold Iraq $1.5 million worth of highly toxic pesticide (can you say precursor, children? Sure, I knew you could).
Saddam might not have had hideous weapons if US corporations had not sold them to him.
It is interesting to see new trolls here. My theory is that CD's increasing relevance and influence will attract them more and more, unfortunately.
FVHORN: Excellent and TRUE patriotic response to "major mutton." You have the patience of a saint in taking the time to present him with a basic education.
****major hutton May 19th, 2008 2:42 pm
****Best moslem nation in
****this area is Turkey. ALL women & men can vote. Woman can
****& have been in the highest part of government, Iraq = never
****happened. Turkey is the moslem woman area for real
****opportunities. You all need to travel or at least put up
****your funny books & smokes and check out what is going on in
****this world. Such bad vibes.
You omitted a segment of the Turkish population known as KURDS, who cannot even be referred to as such because of the genocidal practices of the Turkish government (which sometimes insists on referring to them as 'Mountain Turks' and until recently had banned their language). In recent years they have razed thousands of villages and massacred untold numbers of civilians. This war continues over the border into Northern Iraq as I type this. The genocide has been carried out with US equipment and approval.
Do you want to know more? LoL!
continually amused May 19th, 2008 6:19 pm said, "Is this the same Saddam that GASSED his own countrymen?"
Yeah. We gave him the gas and instructions for use, then turned our back when he used it on his own Kurds instead of Iranians. After all, "He may be a brutal dictator, but he's our brutal dictator." His death warrant didn't get signed until he screwed with OPEC's pricing.
major hutton,
thinks he's so smart,
really he knows nutton
cept the smell of his own fart.
~Continually Amused~ You ask who decides when a war is just or not? Do you mean legally or morally justified, or both?
Personally, I've decided the war with Iraq is unjust. What's your personal opinion?
hutton - brainwashed tool of his masters.
I guess you didn't volunteer, as it's now known volunteers don't get to retire or come home (unless brain dead or in body bag)
So anxious to kill, so happy to follow orders, I'd call that being a frankenstein zombie.
This is ground control to Major Tom-- you've been screwed, used, abused and worst of all you try to convince others that U
SA has the right if not duty to intrude in the sovereignity of other nations that have not threatened or harmed us. Shame on you,
the bible promised that those who live by the sword....you know the rest, Major ButtonMan. (oops, sorry Mafia doesn't want you if your ancestory isn't Sicilian,) so ignore my remarks about you being just another button man.
Those who prattle about supporting the troops can blow it out their ...well you know. Goerge Bush lied and four thousand American children and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died. Is that supporting the troops? It isnt even supporting common sense, or justice, or reason, or logic. These neocons ar brainwashed morons who are being used and will be cast aside with the rest of us, only they dont know it.
The greatest terrorist threat in the world today is the Bush administration. Noone, not AlQaeda, not Hamas, not Hezbollah, has tortured and murdered more people than we have. How does it feel, neocon fool, to be a party to such as that? Or do you feel nothing at all?
the more I look at it Iraq is turning into GAZA, and they call this foreign policy, democracy? No it is murder on the highest level.
major hut:
having worked with military personal over the years it has the highest level of wife beating. you .............
i've created a sense of being for myself that goes like this, i am an earthling. i look at others as being from the planet earth. not black or white gay or straight or any other bullshit division. that being said, i look upon iraq with far more sorrow in my heart than i look upon the mother weeping of her dead american soldier. that mother is a republican, she supported bush, she wanted this war, she has some inherant hatred for persians like most americans, hate for no reason, as was displayed on farenheit 911 her son was some retarded kid living out his violent video game fantasies, "we love listening to megadeath as we run over the women and children, it muffles out the screams." and she'll be the first to call you a bleeding heart for crying over anyone. this media fed hatred, doled out by a jewish run media. hmmm lets see, ncis, the unit, numbers, and countless other television shows shoved down the american throats about terrorism and the arab boogeyman.
is anyone else sick to death of all this bullshit. there is no end in site the whole world is circling the drain, Superman where are you???
He's shacked up with Lois Lane. One has to set their priorities.
I thought that before the occupation that Iraq was one of the leading arab states- with a large middle class and economic strength. Or was that before Desert Storm and following decade of sanctions?