Israelis Celebrate, Palestinians Mourn

And what action was that? Mind controling Arafat? Giving him a broken pen so he could not signed the Camp David peace agreement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

According to The Continuum Political Encyclopedia of the Middle East, "most of the criticism for [the] failure [of the 2000 Camp David Summit] was leveled at Arafat."

Clinton, who promised Arafat that no one would be blamed if the talks failed, did, in fact, blame Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace."

According to The Oslo Syndrome, "most of the European states followed Clinton in seeing the Israeli offers as very forthcoming and placing the onus for the summits's failure on Arafat

The failure to come to an agreement was widely attributed to Yasser Arafat, as he walked away from the table without making a concrete counter-offer and because Arafat did little to quell the series of Palestinian riots that began shortly after the summit

Arafat was also accused of scuttling the talks by Nabil Amr, a former minister in the Palestinian Authority

In 2004, two books by American participants at the summit were published that placed the blame for the failure of the summit on Arafat. The books were The Missing Peace by longtime US Middle East envoy Dennis Ross and My Life by President Clinton.

Letto -

By actions, the last 4 Israeli PMs have most emphatically ensured an Arab Palestinian state would NOT exist on their watch.

Sure Namaste, I support your boycott of Israel.

Goodbye Namaste, ho great 'thinker'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIjs1TT5-sc

forextrader: "When the hell will "Israel" recognize other people's right to exist?"

Israel, by joining the UN, recognized all 192 UN member's right to exists.
Also - The last 4 Prime Minister support the creation of a Palestinian state along side Israel.

I want to thank Nahida, Presence, Ken Mitchell and others for bringing sense into this conversation. To Ticonderoga: Thanking Jewbacca isn't what I have in mind. To all those Zionists who say that "Israel has the right to exist", I will ask this: When the hell will "Israel" recognize other people's right to exist? Remember Golda Meyer who said that there is no such thing as a Palestinian? And you Zionists have the nerve to demand that your phantom state of "Israel" is recognized and then you don't want to reciprocate? The Zionists are lucky I'm not President of the US. Because if I were, I would de-recognize "Israel" and cut off all funding to this monster entity in a heart beat. I would also take Hamas off the "terrorist" list because that is libelous. hamas is a legitimate politcal party duly elected by the Palestinians to represent their interests. So step the f back and give them respect!

gde, they have far more rights then they have in any arab country.

Israel does not need to justify it's existence in any way shape or form. When I talked about the UK it was in a historical context, its completely irrelevant regarding israel's existence now.

nahida May 19th, 2008 1:05 pm

"Israel not only has no right to exist as a Jewish state (for the apparent racism that's embedded in this definition) but also has no right to exist as a state and a political system. Period."

The UN has 192 members. According to UN charter, all its members has a right to exists.

Can you please provide me the list of all UN members that in your opinion has no right to exist?
Does all 22 Arab countries have the right to exist as Arab countries?
Does all 54 Muslim countries have the right to exists as Muslim countries?
Does Germany has a right to exist as a German country? And what about France?

If your compiled list is a short one, which consists but a single name - the Jewish state, than what you're actually saying is:

From all the nations of the Planet - Only Jews doesn't have a right for self determination. Well, I'm waiting for your list.

Palestinians living in Israel do not have full citizenships rights. Politically, yes, but not when it comes to property rights. As a general rule, they can't get building permits.

Jewbacca is a colonial sympathizer. He justifies Israel's existence based on the UK's mandate, but ignores the fact that the UK did not agree to the creation of the Israel we have today, but one that would live in harmony with the pre-existing Palestinians.

Nahida, its good to see that you have FINALLY been honest about the real intentions here, let me quote you:

"THE BIGGEST ROBBERY IN HISTORY

Israel not only has no right to exist as a Jewish state (for the apparent racism that's embedded in this definition) but also has no right to exist as a state and a political system. Period."

This seems to sum things up pretty well, so the next time someone calls ME "chickenhawk", "Bigot", or "Intolerant", I'll tell them I'm nothing compared to nahida!

Undoubedly though, the progressive forces of commondreams will be on here to tell you themselves...

President Bush didn't mention the 711,000 Palestinians refugees of the 1948 war. He also failed to mention the 850,000 Jewish refugees who were ethnically cleansed from Arab countries following that same war.

In 1948 , some 850,000 Jews lived in Arab countries. Some in communities that existed for 2500 years. Then, trough massacres, expulsions and property confiscation, these communities become extinct.

Today, there are 1,200,000 Palestinians living in Israel with full citizenship rights. There are less than 5,000 Jews who live in countries who are members in the Arab league.

All humans have the same rights. Let us remember all the victims of that war. Palestinians and Jews alike.

Ken Mitchell May 18th, 2008 8:08 am
"There was no Bulgaria before 1905 and no Albania before 1912,"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria

There was an independent Bulgarian kingdom before 1396.
There have never been in history an independent Arab Palestinian state.

Everyone here who is interested in seeing peace between Israel and Palestine, and who also thinks Israel (and the US) should make concessions to Palestine, should be grateful to Jewbacca for his posts. If nothing else, they have served to illustrate clearly to anyone reading these posts how narrow-minded and hateful the "Israel can commit no wrong and Palestine can do nothing right" mindset is. For all we know, Jewbacca may dislike what Israel is doing as much or more than anyone else here, and is trying to help the Palestinian cause in a sort of reverse psychology way.

Thank you, Jewbacca.

I just registered to say thank you to all those who took to the time and energy to reply to this misguided Hasbara cyber soldier called "Jewbacca". It's about time that unconditional Israel apologists like him/her start realizing that millions of educated and informed people from all over the world refuse to be fooled any longer and are able to see right through their worn out Zionist propaganda myths, distortions of historical truths and blatant lies. Please keep up the good work!

Ken, you seem to assume that partition in and of itself removed people from homes. It did not! Arabs (and jews) were not kicked out of homes until the rejection of partition. No land was "taken away" until the violence (which the arabs started) began.

Essentially, what the arabs were fighting against was a broken promise by the british, that they would be given one pan-arab state. They had no right to blame israel for this though.

I don't "blame the victim", I blame the terrorists and the ideologues who support them. These are not victims.

Jewbacca, Palestinians lived in the area for centuries before the mass Jewish migration after World War II. Turkey and then the UK did rule the land, but it still was home to the Palestinians. There was no Bulgaria before 1905 and no Albania before 1912, both were part of Turkey, but the Bulgarians and Albanians called this thie home.

Regarding the Arab rejection, how would like it if someone told you that they were going to take half of your home and move in?

What difference does it make if there was or wasn't contact? Native Americans here and Arabs in Palestine had their land taken away from them. Why blame the victim?

Paul I understood your post and responded, I don't see why you take that the way you have.

You don't seem to get that I don't make the biblically-based argument for israel's existence in the first place.

Jewbacca,
If you don't understand what I said then I guess you never will, hence you are problematic rather than those seeking solution to the Isreali/Arab/Palestinian/Zionist problem. Frankly, except for being controversial, and inspiring people to post comments relevant to the discussion of trying to find a peaceful agreement to this middle eastern oil based quandary, you are irrelevant, and consequently in the larger scheme of things obstructionist, hence a time waster & a waste of time.

Although this is considered a 'PRO-gressive' site (as opposed to RE-gressive places like Faux Noise) it, by numerous polls, really reflects the thought of mainstream America & the world, not a discredited minority philosophy like George W. Bush's, who thinks he's kissing Isreal's ass for political & financial advantage, but is now being paid back with rejection of himself, his idealogy, his demented 'legacy', and his party for being out of touch with reality.

Ken: There is NO comparison between the palestinians and native americans. IT WAS NOT THEIR LAND! The british and ottomans ruled the region for centuries, and the british paritioned the land between israel and palestine. THERE WAS NO INDEPENDANT PALESTINE BEFORE THIS!

And guess who rejected their homeland, rejected partition, and started the 1948 war... THE ARABS!!!!!!!

There was no contact between europe and north america prior to european colonialism. There has been 5k years of jewish contact in the middle east... how can you compare the two?

Plant, I am honestly sorry if I didn't respond to everything you said. I don't have a lot of time to moniter this and post, so I know I miss stuff.

Paul, what is this idiocy? lol, you know what zionism and judiasm are and can tell me I'm not jewish? I don't even know where to begin with that one, other then that its completely absurd. Kind of like me telling you what color eyes you have.

Kzaristan? What is the relevence here? It doesn't matter where jews are from originally, it matters that we are jews! I do not "lay claim to israel" because of anything ancient but because the modern israeli government says I can. If an african nation's government said "hey paul, congrats, you're now an african! come here and get aids", it would be their right to do so.

My rejection of god and god's promise? Explain this one to me. God promised the jews would get israel back, and look. God has kept every pronise ever made to the jewish people, and the only people who don't get this are jews that whine a lot and wallow in victimhood. I'm not one of these jews.

RE: Jewbacca May 16th, 2008 1:10 pm

"Don't worry, the progressive forces of commondreams are behind you."

'Realistic forces of commondreams' is more applicable, but I expect someone with sucha delusional point of view wouldn't understand opposition. Don't you understand that while you might have hitched your wagon to a temporarily large stolen (Zionist) horse it is dying at the rate people gain information about the also stolen resources it took to grow a horse that large?

"As one of the few real jewish zionists here, I certainly wouldn't agree with anything you are saying..."

How you can put two terms together such as 'jewish zionists' is expected by a group of political people (Zionists) who have shown repeatedly they have no conscience or ethics about using people of the Jewish faith to hide behind. 'Jewish zionist' is a contradiction in terms. By accident of lineage people are Jewish, through political intent to disavow God's promise to people of the Jewish faith to give them a homeland, people choose to be a Zionist. Zionism is a rejection of Judaism & God, since Zionists are intent on 'taking' a homeland rather than being 'given' one. This is the Achilles heel of Zionism, and ultimately a road to failure because "Might makes right" ALWAYS runs into an entity bigger, faster, & stronger. Bullies eventually always fall, often with punishment for their criminal actions soon to follow .

With this in mind I say, while you might claim to be a Zionist, you have no right to claim you are of the Jewish faith, regardless of being of jewish parentage, most of whom came from the Khazaristan region of central Asia rather than the middle east anyway, since by your rejection of God & God's promise you are excluded as a member of that sublime faith. B

By the same twisted genealogical logic of Zionists, I, a white American of European ancestry, can lay claim to Africa, since ALL people supposedly originated there, or Native Americans can place claims to Asia, since evidence indicates that as their place of origin thousands of years ago. DNA evidence proves a common ancestry for all people on this planet, so we should all learn how to share, and make peace within OUR family.

Jewbacca
Your mind is set in cement. I was refering to ALL war and ALL who practice it. You keep wanting to put me in a box as a defender of the Palestinians which I have not done. As you will not address the crux of my comments I declare myself the winner! Yay, me!!!

I do like your moniker...way cool.

Presence:
You sound like a devotee of the eight-fold path...bless you...I take refuge in your sanity.

Jewbacca, there's a difference between your small town and Israel/Palestine. The people who came to the small town for the most part bought homes and didn't take land or homes away from people who were already there. The Jewish people coming into Israel came from other countries. The Arab terrorists were expelled from what was their land. Your "blame the victims" policy is duly noted. The Palestinians today were like the Native-Americans in the 19th century. Their land was taken, and when they fought back, they were blamed. The Palestinians want what was taken away from them.

You never told me that I was wasting my time. You simply have a "Don't try to change my mind with facts" attitude.

Ken, at the beginning of the 20th century, the majority of the people living here in my small town are certainly no longer the majority today.

POINT BEING?

Simply pointing out demographic changes is not an excuse for murder.

Plant: I do not ignore what happens to palestinians as the result of this war. I just put the blame where it lies: with the arab terrorist groups and those who support them. NO matter what you think happened in 1948, do you really think israelis will let themselves get murdered over it? Will go down without a fight? Nonsense! This is war to the death, the israelis will not rest as long as they are targeted, and the palestinians will not rest as long as there are israelis to target.

As I've said before, you are all wasting your energy on this one.

Jewbacca:
Sorry I haven't answered your comment on my comment sooner...but I have an actual life and little time for the net. Interesting that you chose one small facet of my argument to attack while ignoring the rest. Unless you can answer all my argument, which is not that complicated, I must assume you conceed my points. Your "us vs. them" mentality is terribly narrow in its scope and fails to offer any sort of long term solution beyond killing more people. You follow the mind set of Fox News which is to oversimplify the facts. You use the same tactic proven so successful in 1930's Germany, which is to objectify those you wish to destroy
using sterotypical statements and unproven "facts" to paint horns and tails on whole populations and allow yourself to sleep at night in self-righteous satisfaction.
You ignore the fact most Palestinians are children who are dismembered, maimed
and murdered by errant missles, bullets and cluster bomblets when they get in the way. Certainly this same circumstance applies to Israeli children caught in the crossfire as well, but I guess thats OK, too, so long as you get in the last salvo. All who practice war are immoral murders who shrug their shoulders when things go wrong (and things always go wrong) and say, "oops...oh well...that is the nature of war." How nice to forgive yourself so flippantly.
Would that all you lovers of death and destruction could go off somewhere and practice your lunacy leaving those of us not so inclined in peace. But the fact is, the idealogues, Muslim, Jewish, Christian etc., insist on taking our hard earned treasure through taxation under threat of imprisonment to manufacture the weapons of hate, fear and murder. They lure our sons and daughters into the fray making them accomplices to the insanity and victims of the carnage, while keeping their own children safe at home to pursue "other priorities." I am sick of you...all of you. You lack both the courage and the creativity to do anything besides the same crap over and over while expecting different results that NEVER materialize. This behavior is cowardly in the extreme. Making war on defenseless children and the aged is dispicable. (and I said it without one curseword...try it sometime.)

Jewbacca, you're the one who is closed minded.

At the beginning of the 20th century, a majority of the people living in what is today called Israel were Arabs. You ignore this fact.

The Palestinians are being made to pay for the holocaust. You remark that many Palestinians call for Israel's destruction. How would you like it if somebody told you that they were going to take half of your home and move in? This is what happened to the Palestinians in Israel. Their ancestors lived in Israel for centuries while many of the Jewish ancestors lived elsewhere, many in Eastern Europe. Unlike you, I don't believe in blaming the victims.

Ken, maybe you are the one who isn't open-minded on israel.

Who is shouting anti-semitism?

mikep, I regard Israel as the Liberal Jews' tragic flaw. I know so many Jewish people who are open minded on every issue you can think of, except Israel. For some reason, any time someone criticizes Israel, no matter how valid the criticism is, they shout "anti-Semitism". Never mind the fact that the Arabs are also Semitic.

Well of course you fools come up with all kinds of silly theories about me, anything but that I'm a person who believes what he says. THAT would truly frighten you.

It's easy to post on this topic when I can read the english language and navigate the internet to Commondreams here. I then through the magic of eyesight read the titles of the threads. I don't "belong" to other sites, though I post all over the place I don't have a "base" from which I "attack".

Liberty, I'm here to break up your leftist circle-jerk.

Jewbacca - you ARE a bigot! It's obvious from nearly every post you've put into this blog.

People don't feed the shills/trolls. They are here to monitor the conversations and they post here on CD, alternet, Rawstory and the rest of the left websites to keep us in line. Sometimes they are dumb enough to use the same screennames--I notice a few CD posters do this. However, they always post on this topic. Ever heard of Megaphone technology?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

Jewbacca, Methinks you may be messin round and ain't really jewish, or, if so, not a serious zionist as you claim. I'm suspicious of your intent.

Mikep
it is you who have a problem with the facts.
The Zionist terrorists began their ethnic cleansing, a program conceived of half a century previously, to which the victims and Arab states responded.
It's simple Mikep. You're defending terrorists and a terrorist state.
Other cults merely kill themselves, but the Zionist cult has to prove itself by destroying the livelihood of a population that it considers inferior.

Skippy, fine, I don't care if we are related to each other what does this matter? I'm talking about culture and behavior, not genetics.

You are bigoted, jewbacca. In the thousands of years that humans have been screwing each other do you really believe that we aren't all related to one another? I said people built cities thousands of years ago, people who eventually screwed their neighbours and produced other people who became the groups you mentioned. Not one human on earth is a 'pure' anything. We're mongrels, thank you very much.

I do see that I wasn't clear enough when I wrote about the origins of humanity in the region, I should have stressed the word people rather than muslim.

skippy, you can't continue to excuse modern muslim barbarism by talking about muslim achievements that are now 800-900 years old. Why is it relevant that muslims saved ancient greek texts when today they would burn these same texts because they are not islamic?

Furthermore, you claim muslims built cities 10k years ago. I'll assume you meant arabs, and you are wrong. The people living in what is now Iraq, who built Uruk and Ur, were not arab but sumerian. Sumerians and arabs are NOT the same thing, but I'm not going to get into that here.

Google it. And give me a break with the "love of my fellow man" stuff. I don't put out one ten-thousandth the hate the average palestinian imam does. Why does pointing this out get me tarred as the bigoted one?

While it takes at least two parties to have an argument or fight, only one has to want it in the first place, and can unilaterally drag the other into it.

Few posters seem to understand most Jewish Israelis are not from ancient Palestine, but from the Khazar kingdom (which converted to Judaism many centuries after Israel collapsed) via Europe.

Ms. Helen Thomas I just wanted to THANK YOU for a concise to the point interptretation of the Palestinian and Zionest stand off. They, the Palestinians just want to be treated as HUMANS.
I love you as an example that I share with my daughters as a women whom has been through the trenches and has maintained her Ethics in Journalism. I say this is what journalists used to be like, they had a Code of Ethics in Journalism and questioned the injustices that were committed by a rogue government. You have that front row seat and piss Dana "bobblehead" Perino off badly in a manner that only a true Journalist such as yourself, Ms. Helen Thomas can accomplish by demanding TRUTH about this Executive Branch and theire criminal activities. I applaud you, you are my hero and I hope I get to see you in that front row seat forever. A true Patriot.

It's odd to see Zionist posts on this site that represent the hateful, vicious and bigoted aspect that has characterized so much of Israel's behavior toward the people whom they've forced off their ancestral lands. I'm not excusing the Palestinians, but at least they have the excuse that it was they who were invaded when "Israel" was presented to the Jews by a group of nations who had no right in the first place to give it away. The old statement about it taking two parties to make an argument is still true. Israel has always held the position of power, and yet seem morally incapable to anything beyond walling off, shooting and demonizing everything about Palestine. As pointed out already, even many of the regular Israeli citizens are fed up with it. This question to the Zionists, then: are you ready to be tried as war criminals for attempted genocide when if you do manage to succeed in what you seem to be attempting? You sure have written an ugly postscript for all those who died in the Holocaust.

Oh, I almost forgot....The ends NEVER justify the means.

I don't know why, but that seemed like an important point.

The Jews and the Arabs lived in peace and harmony during much of the past. So what has changed so much that that is no longer possible? Why is a one state solution not possible? Why is peace not possible?

Could it be about politics, power, and greed? Not the people on the ground trying to have a life?

Though never very well informed, I can remember exactly how I felt about Isreal and the 6 six day war in 1973. Isreal was the David against the Arab Goliath. Or so it seemed to me. I always support the oppressed little guy who is being bullied. But now the tables have turned. Isreal is no longer the David of this conflict. They never withdrew to their borders after beating the pants off the oppressors. I now have a problem with the scenerio being played out today.

I certainly don't know what the answer is. But I do know that this is not about religion or culture or judging others' way of life. It is all about life and peace. And neither of those come out of the barrel of a gun.

Jewbacca May 16th,

Mir, when the oil runs out, the arab world will have absolutely no export and will dry up and return to nomadic tribes.

Arab culture is barbarous and will not produce anything but death and misery if it doesn't change. There's no comparison between them and israel.

I consider suicide bombing, death worship, animal abuse, sexual enslavement of women, honor killings, and a whole host of other aspects of arab culture to be barbarous.

*******

Yes, those are the comments of someone who loves his/her neighbour. Has no desire to see them die off or to suffer at all. It is of course their fault that they are slaughtered like swine. How silly of me to think otherwise, foolish man I am to think humans actually have the ability to live in peace.

If you're going to damn others for the ancient blood libel, why do you perpetuate another libel against the Muslim world?

It's because of muslim scholars that the texts from ancient Greece were preserved. It was the Muslims in Baghdad who built the first universities in the world. It was the people of the middle east who are thought to first practice agriculture (and overexploited the land causing desertification...) 10 thousand years ago. They built the first cities, long before the jews, chrisians, muslims or budists were thought of.

I will not personally address the rabid Zionists here or mention their names.

The rest of you are entirely wasting your time arguing with them, but it's certainly your time to waste.

You will not change their minds, and will only be insulted, forced to deal with straw man after straw man and accomplish exactly nothing.

The best way to rid these pages of their pathetic, racist ilk, is to ignore them. They deserve even less, but that's the best we can do.

When will the American government do something about the terrorists that have killed peace workers like Rachael Corrie and murdered and maimed American boys like those on the USS Liberty?

In the mean time:

"OTTAWA (AFP) - Canada announced Friday it is scrapping development of two new nuclear reactors that would have supplied radioactive materials, essential for medical tests, to most of the world."

Since our government cares nothing for the health and suffering of We-The-People perhaps Iran will take over the production of medical isotopes.

"Israeli Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai's much publicized remark last week about Gaza facing a "shoah" — the Hebrew word for the Holocaust — was widely assumed to be unpleasant hyperbole about the army's plans for an imminent full-scale invasion of the Strip.

Last summer he began quietly preparing a plan on behalf of his boss, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, to declare Gaza a "hostile entity" and dramatically reduce the essential services supplied by Israel — as long-time occupier — to its inhabitants, including electricity and fuel. The cuts were finally implemented late last year after the Israeli courts gave their blessing.

Vilnai and Barak, both former military men like so many other Israeli politicians, have been "selling" this policy — of choking off basic services to Gaza — to Western public opinion ever since.

Under international law, Israel as the occupying power has an obligation to guarantee the welfare of the civilian population in Gaza, a fact forgotten when the media reported Israel's decision to declare Gaza a hostile entity. The pair have therefore claimed tendentiously that the humanitarian needs of Gazans are still being safeguarded by the limited supplies being allowed through, and that therefore the measures do not constitute collective punishment.

Last October, after a meeting of defense officials, Vilnai said of Gaza: "Because this is an entity that is hostile to us, there is no reason for us to supply them with electricity beyond the minimum required to prevent a crisis."

Three months later Vilnai went further, arguing that Israel should cut off "all responsibility" for Gaza, though, in line with the advice of Israel's attorney general, he has been careful not to suggest that this would punish ordinary Gazans excessively.

Instead he said disengagement should be taken to its logical conclusion: "We want to stop supplying electricity to them, stop supplying them with water and medicine, so that it would come from another place." He suggested that Egypt might be forced to take over responsibility."

Jonathan Cook, 'Israel's ultimate plan for Gaza', The Electronic Intifada, 3/10/08

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9387.shtml

Israeli minister warns of Palestinian 'holocaust'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/29/israelandthepalestinians1

Invading and Occupying Iraq was justified by Iraq-Palestine Connection?

McCain: "Reform of the Palestinian Authority — finally underway — can only be strengthened by the demise of the suicide bombers' paymaster in Baghdad. Change in Iraq and elsewhere will increase Israel's security, indispensable to achieving an enduring peace with the Palestinians."

John McCain, 'A Fight for Freedom', March 23, 2003

Reality: Removing Saddam Hussein did not bring Israel or Palestine closer to peace

"Mr. Abbas has been ruling by decree since the Hamas takeover of Gaza. The Hamas-dominated Palestinian parliament has been paralyzed for months, with about half the Hamas legislators detained in Israeli jails. Palestinian officials in the West Bank said over the weekend that they had received a new list of 110 fugitives to be offered amnesty by Israel. A month ago, Israel and the Palestinians agreed on the names of 178 militants to be taken off Israel's wanted list, all members of the Fatah-affiliated Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades militia."

Isabel Kershner, 'Palestinian Leader Fires Dozens of Hamas Civil Servants', The New York Times, 8/19/07

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/world/middleeast/19mideast.html

"Israeli Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai's much publicized remark last week about Gaza facing a "shoah" -- the Hebrew word for the Holocaust -- was widely assumed to be unpleasant hyperbole about the army's plans for an imminent full-scale invasion of the Strip.

Last summer he began quietly preparing a plan on behalf of his boss, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, to declare Gaza a "hostile entity" and dramatically reduce the essential services supplied by Israel -- as long-time occupier -- to its inhabitants, including electricity and fuel. The cuts were finally implemented late last year after the Israeli courts gave their blessing.

Vilnai and Barak, both former military men like so many other Israeli politicians, have been "selling" this policy -- of choking off basic services to Gaza -- to Western public opinion ever since.

Under international law, Israel as the occupying power has an obligation to guarantee the welfare of the civilian population in Gaza, a fact forgotten when the media reported Israel's decision to declare Gaza a hostile entity. The pair have therefore claimed tendentiously that the humanitarian needs of Gazans are still being safeguarded by the limited supplies being allowed through, and that therefore the measures do not constitute collective punishment.

Last October, after a meeting of defense officials, Vilnai said of Gaza: "Because this is an entity that is hostile to us, there is no reason for us to supply them with electricity beyond the minimum required to prevent a crisis."

Three months later Vilnai went further, arguing that Israel should cut off "all responsibility" for Gaza, though, in line with the advice of Israel's attorney general, he has been careful not to suggest that this would punish ordinary Gazans excessively.

Instead he said disengagement should be taken to its logical conclusion: "We want to stop supplying electricity to them, stop supplying them with water and medicine, so that it would come from another place." He suggested that Egypt might be forced to take over responsibility."

Jonathan Cook, 'Israel's ultimate plan for Gaza', The Electronic Intifada, 3/10/08

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9387.shtml

Jewbacca:

You are a consummate racist. Yes, some aspects of middle-eastern culture is still quite "backwards" - treatment of women, etc.
But why paint them all barbarous? Who you would call terrorists, some call freedom fighters. The State of Israel itself is a terrorist state colonizing and oppressing Palestinians. You obviously rationalize the treatment of Palestinians by saying they are inferior and barbarous. (non-human) That was Hitler's explanation to the German people.

Take a look at millions of Americans who are illiterate and backwards - who abuse women and torture animals - who are alcoholics and neglect their children and sexually abuse them - who can't point out their country on a world map -who eat junk food and are morbidly obese - who would still lynch African Americans if they could get away with it. Homicide, child kidnapping and rape, wife beating, etc. etc. is rampant. Should all Americans be tarred by the same brush?

And explain how come there are 1,600 "refuseniks" - Israeli soldiers who refuse to brutalize and oppress Palestinian people. They have seen first hand the cruelty perpetuated on the Palestinians and they refuse to participate for moral reasons. They would rather go to jail - and some of them have.

You have revealed the mind of zionists and their rationalization of their despicable behaviour.: Racism.

citizen, you can call me anything you want, but can you back it up?

I consider suicide bombing, death worship, animal abuse, sexual enslavement of women, honor killings, and a whole host of other aspects of arab culture to be barbarous. What about jews is "untermenschen"?

And, do you consider those aspects of arab culture I named to be barbarous?

Jewbacca May 16th, 2008 3:51 pm
"Arab culture is barbarous ..."

Now don't be shocked when some people start calling Jews Untermenschen. OK?

Horrified: You are right, since without US support, the arabs would have genocided all of israel a while back, probably in 1973.

Night, palestinians are suffering not because of european aggression again jews, but because of PALESTINIAN aggression against jews. And sorry, I know you guys can't tolerate dissent, but I am going nowhere.

Mirf, for god's sakes, do a google search. I cannot even begin to name the number of israel high tech companies. But wii-fii, instant messaging, and intel chips are all israeli technology, as well as a number of new medical technologies. Israelis continue to win scientific nobel prizes as well, and you can google this too. You are right about solar power, but that's only the surface of israeli technology. In order to post here, every single one of you is using israeli technology, that would not exist if you guys had your way.

Arab culture is barbarous and will not produce anything but death and misery if it doesn't change. There's no comparison between them and israel.

JEWbaca:
(1) A nice trick to say Israel has an ill-defined border. Now whatever territory the Israeli colonialists illegally occupy is "just a few kilometers" outside the border only for security reasons. (Hint: One of the reasons Palestinians don't want to recognize Israel is because the Israeli border is ill-defined - intentionally).

(2) It is colonialism, pure and simple. European and American "Jews" displacing indigenous Arabs.

Jewbacca has emerged from a foxhole (or is it an a**hole?) in the Negev intellectual desert to spray stink bombs and farts at all and sundry. Of course,'bacca targets the real bullets and grenades at Palestinian children. My question is, why are the poor Palestinians paying for Europeans' ill treatment of Jewish people? 'bacca back off; go back to your hole.

---Bacca,

You may well be right. Seems to me high tech could be a euphemism for military budget. And, those dollars come from the US treasury. So, perhaps the return to nomadic life will afflict the entire region.

I have never purchased nor heard of anyone that has ever purchased any product of Israel. I have never heard of any discussion of any area of manufacturing or any other industry where Israel is named as the country of the producer.

I cannot name one Israeli company.

Small correction: I do recall that Israel leads in solar technology, and that Israeli technology is used in the largest solar array in California. But, that's it. Sort of an ironic anecdote, as the success of solar could evenutally render Israel expendible in its geo-political value.

Jewbacca,

Like I told BreeMass...see a plastic surgeon to shrink that ugly nose of yours...A**hole!

Jewbacca,

Israel, the welfare, terrorist state , has nothing if it weren't for the billions the US has given it. It has NOTHING! Without the money, it would be NOTHING! It is nothing but an apartheid racist terroristic regime that thrives on theft and murder. Given that 90% non-semitic eastern european from a warrior tribe, this is not surprising.

If it is a thriving 'democracy' with a thriving economy, why does it need handouts? You are nothing but a terrorist symphatizer.

Mir, when the oil runs out, the arab world will have absolutely no export and will dry up and return to nomadic tribes.

It will be the best thing to ever happen to israel, which has a diverse and high-tech economy.

American politicians need the support of Israel because their offices are in occupied territory.
Hoa binh

With all apologies to the Almighty God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- the nation of Israel absolutely would not exist if the Middle East did not rest on a pool of oil.

Israel's existence owes absolutely nothing to its faith, or any extraordinary character of its people. Its special distinction is PURELY geographic. And its value is all relative to the US, not to some deity of scrolls scribbled 5,000 years ago.

We shall see what happens to Israel when the spigots run dry in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, UAE, Yemen, etc. Whatever Bushes are alive at that time will no longer be shedding tears of fraternity in Tel Aviv, dear friends.

Conservatives are the enemy.

Everyone misses the point - it's all about stealing land and water in the name of 'safety'.

The Israelis keep provoking violence from a disenfranchised people who still have land to be stolen by Jewbacca and his Zionist terrorists, then they 'occupy'(a euphemism for armed robbery of other's land)..

Plant: Heavy handed treatment by the likes of OLMERT? Like what, not giving palestinian terrorists hypoallergenic prayer-rugs? Olmert is the best thing to ever happen to the palestinians, they get to attack israel virtually scot-free.

The palestinians continue to try and push jews into the sea, they just arn't very good at it. For this, you want me to think they are oppressed? Bullshit!

The parallels between Israel's first sixty years as a nation and the United State's first 120 years are too close for one not to be the imitation of the other. Native Americans equals Palestinians. "you be good Indians and go to live on a reservation (until we want that land too) and we shall live in peace as long as the grass grows and wind blows." In this way 37 States were added to the original 13. Polls show that almost half of the people living in Israel want their government to talk with Hamas or anyone else to settle the disputes. But the position of the Israeli government is just like G. Bush's policies. Step 1. We define the "other" side as terrorists. Step 2. WE refuse to talk to terrorists. Step 3. We wage war on the terrorists in such a way that the only avenue open to them is self defense.
Isn't it time that we reject the hyperbolic name calling and try to find a road that is paved with fairness to all concerned.

mikep:Jewbacca;
I think you miss the point. There is even a growing movement among Israeli members of the IDF who are becoming fed up with the heavy-handed treatment of the Palestinian PEOPLE by the likes of Olmert with the tacit approval of George the second. Yes, the Arabs of 1948, 67 and 73 were highly belligerent toward Israel and vowed to push them into the sea...and failed to do so. The large majority of Palestinians today, however, were born long after this. (the average age in Gaza is 17)
Continued violence, whoever is committing it (and both sides are guilty) is no solution.
An eye for an eye leaves a world full of blind men. I have lived through all these conflicts and I have yet to see anybody try anything except violence which has only served to perpetuate the hate. The one exception is Jimmy Carter and , surprise surprise, the PEACEFUL solution he worked out still holds. Rhetoric appealing to the lowest most barbaric emotions only serves to benefit US arms dealers who export more weapons of murder then the next five exporters combined. They LOVE guys like you. I say...F*** WAR AND ALL WHO PRACTICE IT!
I just wish you guys could go off to some other planet and leave those of us who just want to get by alone. Mars would be appropriate.

I keep wondering why so many American liberals are telling such blatant lies about the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The historical facts prove very conclusively that the Palestinians and other Arabs began the war, and that they are the ones who have repeatedly turned down offers of peace over the years. So why are American (and British) liberals lying? I suspect it's because, deep down, they know that the Democrats they've supported for so many decades and without any qualification are genuine warmongers and terrorists, and they don't have the maturity or integrity to admit just how wrong they have been over the years. And so they are desperately looking for someone else to blame.

"It can't be us, we're perfect people, we don't ever do wrong. So it must be someone else's fault. It's the Republicans, it's the Jews, it's the Chinese, it's the Russians, it's Ralph Nader, etc., etc." But of course, this is just a hypocritical fantasy. It's the Democrats and Republicans who are actually terrorizing other people and occupying their land. Not the Israelis. It's the Democrats and Republicans who are violating international law. Not the Israelis.

But I guess it's easier to blame others than to accept responsibility for your actions. Oh well.

citzen: Arabs and muslims are "paying the price" because of their continued aggression against israel, not because of anything that happened in europe. You guys always bring in the holocaust when its not the issue.

There is nothing "colonial" about having settlements a few hundred meters outside of your (totally undefined) border. Those are for security, not colonization...

Couple of pointers to think about:

(1) Europeans and Christians prosecuted Jews, therefore Arabs and Muslims have to pay the price.

(2) Israeli conflict is a colonial one, disguised as a religious one.

(3) Both US and Israel were founded on the principles of ethnic cleansing and genocide. Therefore they support each other.

I'm so sorry you didn't get to genocide the jews, "palestinians".

Don't worry, the progressive forces of commondreams are behind you.

kelmer, who are you speaking for? As one of the few real jewish zionists here, I certainly wouldn't agree with anything you are saying, even if you did mean it seriously.

Jews are superior to arabs.

Jews have a right to come from all over the world after 2000 years, but arabs born in the land and have been away for 50 years dont have the right.

Jewish lives must be saved, arabs must also apologize for the jews they kill, but not vice versa.
So arabs must recognize Israel's right to exist, but jews dont have to recognize arabs right of return(after all-they are all primitives, and have no culture, so the camel jockeys should just go find another dust field to sit in).

And what the jews faced from the Nazis was worse than what arabs have faced, and because Europeans feel guilt about it they let the jews do what they want to arabs who are inferior to them.

That's the thinking behind it. It doesnt get questioned very much-and certainly not by the corporate media.