We need to re-think our cavalier use of fuel in the arena of transportation.

The military uses a lot of fuel for operations, maneuvers, shows of force etc. We should start pressuring them to limit flyovers, helicopter escorts etc. They should use only the fuel which is necessary, which should be little or nothing if they stop being show-boating imperialists. The exception would be fuel to fly our soldiers home from all over the world.

Public transportation would go a long way. An individual riding in a car is extremely wasteful. An individual in a private helicopter is even more wasteful. Limo services and helicopters are increasingly used by the privileged side-step public transportation in NY.

We have designed our landscape so we need cars. But there could be more busses running loops between residential, shopping and employment zones. If we become more cooperative rather than individualistic, we can pool more. In NY Orthodox Jews, Asian immigrants and other groups own and run 10 seater vans and small busses for their constituents. Major employers could do similar things for their employees. That would be a much appreciated benefit these days.

And of course my favorite thing - we need more rail transport for people and goods. There should be ways to get the freight directly in and out of cities with terminals that connect with trucks, busses and passenger cars.

All these things would be a show of patriotism to improve the security, reputation and rationality of the US and a show of matriatism to serve the needs of Mother Earth.

I read an article in Fine Homebuilding magazine written by a woman who purchased an AGA range for something like $13k. The thing is on ALL OF THE TIME. It has several ovens that maintain different temps ... one maintains a temp in the 400's !! This woman lives with her husband, no kids or other people in the house. This is horrendously wasteful, but no matter because damn that range looks great and look, it's an *AGA* (oooh aaah).

Another gigantic waste: showers that spray so much water they require extra heaters, extra large pipes, and extra-capacity drainage.

I wonder how many Hummer drivers are enjoying their ridiculous monstrosities now that gas prices are topping $4/gal. Here in Chicago, regular is up to $4.50 in some parts of the city.

'Green' products made by Clorox sold at Walmart to gullible 'consumers' pretty much says it all

I have several Green Day CD's. Does that count?

rtdrury
The optimum way to do transport is to 1.) limit the average miles per person per year to 2000, 2.) ensure that this average has a very low deviation

Wonderful idea in theory... how do you plan to enforce it? How do you monitor every citizen in this country or do we go on the honor system? Too much Government involvement for my liking.

Hooray! Another reason for us lefty enviro-leaning folks to look a little further down our noses at our ignorant evil conservative evolutionarily impaired cousins. No. The real number one reason we have such worse scores on a survey than India, China, and Mexico, is our wealth. Many of the European nations mentioned as well as Japan are as wealthy as us, and in their case they are actually responsible of shifting their values and possessing leaders capable of changing things, as we would have had under President Gore. Guilt tripping and annoying people will achieve nothing. Education will.

Dcbeltway, do yourself a favor and think about the difference between big business calling themselves "green" because of some marketing push and the actual environmental movement. You'd be right in thinking twice about an industry calling itself "green", you'd be illogical to use that as a reason to ignore the environmental community, who has been right about every single issue. Some in the nuclear industry, and people around the crazies like LaRouche, call themselves "green", it'd be illogical to attach that to the environmental community. By the way, the actual environmental movement, not big business calling themselves "green", have been warning against bio fuels. The environmental community doesn't have well positioned lobbyists, big business, with their "green" campaigns do. Corn farmers, really big agro corporations, have been calling THEMSELVES "green", is that enough to make them environmentalists? If so, then all Bush has to do is call himself the "green president" and he'll magically become the "environmental president", I guess.

There goes another military jet flying over the rooftop... lets see that must be about 20 times already today. Each minute they fly probably negates any green effort that I could offset in a month (or more). I understand the military is just starting their new fiscal year,so guess there will be alot more flying around to keep in practice for actual bomb dropping.

Until our government gets on board and helps figure out how to help us all be more green,(and quit squandoring resources) were all just drifting. The small things we each do are important at an individual level and may make us feel more secure, but in reality it's a systems problem that cannot be resolved by individuals.
The big problem is that our leaders do not have the same agenda as the majority of the citizens in this country. Though there are plenty of examples of "spoiled Americans" there are plenty of us out there that want to do things differently. We need more tools.

Great comments FVHorn...I wish we could wave a wand to get everyone to see this.

cowpie May 12th, 2008 4:22 am

"No one seems to notice that "greed" and "green" are spelled nearly the same! The problem here is… that greed (humanity at its best, not!), trumps Mother Earth!

Green won't pay the bills for Oil War, Military Corporate Industrial Complex tax beaks, Nafta, Cafta, Illegal Immigration, Health Care, Gas Tax Christmas', and whatever D.C.'s, hillary/billary/dumbya/obombsya/mac'donalds clowns tell you, green loses to greed!"

The answer to that is to quit electing the Democrats and Republicans who have gotten us to where we are now.

Lobo Gris

Storm is coming.

Instead of bandying bullshit, why not spend you time better?

Prepare.

-matti.

No one seems to notice that "greed" and "green" are spelled nearly the same! The problem here is... that greed (humanity at its best, not!), trumps Mother Earth!

Green won't pay the bills for Oil War, Military Corporate Industrial Complex tax beaks, Nafta, Cafta, Illegal Immigration, Health Care, Gas Tax Christmas', and whatever D.C.'s, hillary/billary/dumbya/obombsya/mac'donalds clowns tell you, green loses to greed!

Duh? Christ and the money changers? Here's a news flash for you... gays didn't crucify Christ, the Corporates of his age did!

Green or Greed?

dcbeltway May 11th, 2008 12:24 pm

"Sorry after the biofuels debacle and the millions who are starving as a result of this "green idea" I am skeptical about anything that is labeled as "green". I support the environment but I want to know all the facts first before I get on board with any new "green policies" especially since big-business and those who impose our taxes seem to be interested in the green movement as a new means to make money."

Want real solution? The real solution is hydrogen. The oceans are full of it since every drop of water is two thirds hydrogen.

It can be extracted from sea water through electrolysis using electricity produced by solar and wind energy.

The main byproduct of burning hydrogen is water with a negligible amount of Nox but no carbon emissions.

Every car on the road now can be converted to run on it now along with gasoline, the fuel used selected by the driver with a simple switch on the dashboard. The best thing is there is no waiting for a whole new fleet of vehicles to enter the transportation network through consumer purchase of new automobiles.

Drawbacks? Hydrogen plants need to be built and a distribution infrastructure developed. Funny, we can spend 200 billion dollars a year on war but can't alocate enough money to convert to hydrogen that would eliminate our need for foreign oil.

Closely following a sighting of a Hydrogen-powered 7 series during testing, BMW officially announced the Hydrogen 7 today. The car is touted as the first hydrogen-drive luxury performance automobile for everyday use. The BMW Hydrogen 7 will be built in a limited series, and sold to select customers in the U.S. and overseas in 2007. The engine in the Hydrogen 7, a derivative of the 7 series 12 cylinder engine, is capable of running on gasoline or hydrogen, and produces 260 hp. The car will accelerate from 0 to 62.1 mpg in 9.5 seconds. The ability to run on both gasoline and hydrogen gives the Hydrogen 7 a range of more than 400 miles. The high tech hydrogen storage tank has a capacity of approximately 17.6 lb of liquid hydrogen, giving the Hydrogen 7 a cruising range in hydrogen mode upwards of 125 miles. The gasoline mode accounts for an additional 300 miles of cruising range. The driver is the one who decides which fuel to use, with a smooth transition between both operating modes, since the engine power and torque remain identical regardless of the fuel used.

And with a bigger tank the range and use of hydrogen could be expanded.

Lobo Gris

If you take a wild animal and put it in a cage, it will never stop trying to get out, but if an animal is born in a cage it eventually give up trying to leave it.

I filled out the survey a few days ago and scored 53. I must be living like a Hungarian or Russian, the two countries my score put me between. I've been building passive solar heaters and trying to seal the house better. I'm also gardening more and more. I'd like to be able to produce all my food but if I had to depend on what I can produce I would starve right now. I will get better though. I am not really interested in photovoltaics but I am interested in generated electricity with a windmill and concentrating sunlight to power a Stirling engine connected to a generator but I have no funds for such things right now. I have almost never bought bottled water but I used to drink a lot of soft drinks. Now I stick to orange juice in gallon jugs and tap water. I am also contemplating raising chickens for compost, bug control, eggs, and meat.

There is a lot we can do but most people are too lazy and spoiled as the article mentions. I have only recently started a lot of the things I mentioned but that is only because I just recently became a property owner. If it weren't for the war on drugs I'd have been on my way towards self sufficiency over 15 years ago.

dcbeltway: I also think the environmental movement needs to present more solutions when they tell us we must forgo things like airplane travel in order to protect the environment

The optimum way to do transport is to 1.) limit the average miles per person per year to 2000, 2.) ensure that this average has a very low deviation, 3.) ensure that 90% of the miles are at > 500 miles per gallon (equivalent gasoline), so rail on land and sail on seas, 4.) ensure that 90% of personal transport is at > 100 mpg, 5.) ensure that most of the transport energy is produced with solar-thermal, wind electric and permaculture biofuels (biodiesel oil trees), by small independent producers, 6.) 90% internal combustion engines in series-hybrid diesel electric configurations. These guidelines maximize social benefits, maximize conversion efficiencies, maximize ecological sustainability. Notice that the "free market" capitalist system has to be dismantled. There are also optimum ways to do food, shelter, industry, etc.

"As one person noted, don't blame the politicians, no one is putting a gun to our heads when we buy SUV's. A few will be able to opt-out, but most are incapable, simply because we are what we are – a product of our evolution."

Tell that to peoples who have existed for eons without shitting in their own beds as we have. All humans are not alike.

We learned how to be this way, we can learn another way. The masses won't learn it - the cultural creatives and early adopters have to just start living another way and the late adopters will follow. When the shit in our bed starts suffocating us, they will follow.

All this "green" nonsense is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It's time we quit feeling good about giving aspirin to a cancer patient. FVHorn is right; we have overshot the carrying capacity of the planet. There is no ethical way to get the population down to a sustainable level in time to avert disaster.

The US has exported its culture and life style to billions of others around the world, and now we are powerless to stop them from doing as we have done. We can't curb our own consumption, let alone anyone else.

Compounding the problem, humans are not well-equipped deal with distant threats. Evolution hard wired us to deal with immediate threats, not long-term ones. Distant threats did not remove people from the gene pool, so there was no evolutionary advantage for humans to become alarmed at them, regardless of how serious they might be. Now it is the distant problems that threaten us. It does not matter that some people can see them coming, that ability is not present in the general population.

As one person noted, don't blame the politicians, no one is putting a gun to our heads when we buy SUV's. A few will be able to opt-out, but most are incapable, simply because we are what we are – a product of our evolution.

It might be better to quit blogging about circumstances we aren't willing, or able to change, and start making worst-case disaster plans that improve our chances of survival.

"We need strong incentives for the development of renewable energy alternatives.

"We need to increase and improve the public transportation options in many of our cities and in rural areas. And we need to make those alternative modes of transportation comfortable enough that people will want to use them instead of cars.

"And we need buy-in from the business community, be it be voluntary or imposed through fines and regulations."

We need to refrain from procreation.

We need to see that mortality rates from natural causes far exceed fertility rates.

We need to radically alter our habits and living arrangements so that vehicular traffic is no longer an option.

We need to abandon the institutions of marriage and family as we have known them.

We need to cultivate neighborhood communities and orient ourselves to the local economy.

We need to do these things without the need for government participation.

THE PROF: Economics is NOT my strong suit... he spoke about them creating a lot of paper wealth that was no longer tied to precious metals, and that inflation soared almost over night. A loaf of bread could cost hundreds of equivalent "dollars."

Mainly what Burkett was relating was that a nation can't live indefinitely on borrowed $. That our debt can NEVER be repaid, and according to him, we can't even make our interest payment. Others far more savvy tham myself on this topic have commented (in this forum) on how much of a shell game the U.S. economy has become.

Burkett predicts another GREAT depression... he expected it in 2000, so his numbers are off; but he raised some ominous parallels with previous ones. And now with global warming and aberrant weather events accelerating, the US standing in the world probably in the toilet, the treasury depleted, oil prices rising, home prices gutted (creating loss of equity to a great many people), the combined SIGNS are not indicative of anything remotely optimistic. And still we (many US citizens) go on like dancing couples while the music still plays on our own Titanic...

As far as I can see here in Jersey this is not any surprise whatsoever. I think the results of this test are in evidence every time I leave my apartment all around me. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing us talk about global warming and war and oil and then drive off in our cars.

Our lifestyle, our plans, our ambitions in everything from the arts to finance are heavily influenced by our cultural assumptions about things like cars, about where we can travel to, where we can live and work, where we want to live and work, what we can do. We want things because we have been brought up to think we can have them.

There is of course the flipside, which is, we are also not very free in the U.S. Nothing is free here (except of course for the billionaires) and what we want we must use up most of our energy and creativity to try to get.

So we are frequently also very tired people. It is a lot of work trying to pay for our lifestyle, trying to pay for the things the corporations charge us for, those same corporations we are keeping rich and in power. Those corporations call the shots. Who feels that their job, with their work-week schedule, is the healthiest lifestyle they could choose? Corporations control the basic necessities we need to live, along with all those things we have learned to be ambitious toward getting.

where is the incentive to be as green as one can. If we live out of town and HAVE to drive since it is to far you fail. If you use electricity from a coal plant it is against you as well. I say as others are starting to the hell with polls. I try to be green my next car will be more green than the 4 cylinder I drive now. Import foods, well I am sorry but when the strawberries are on sale for 1.99 for a pound and it is snowing outside it is hard to say no, it took a truck to get them here so I shouldn't buy them?? Sorry they go TOOOOO good with the icecream

Siouxrose,

"I recently picked up "The Coming Economic Earthquake" by a Christian economist, Larry Burkett at a library book sale. ...he DOES raise some chilling parallels between the fall of Nazi Germany due to its currency and inflation patterns, and what's happening in America, today."

Apparently Larry Burkett is misinformed. The Weimar republic fell due to hyper-inflation leading to the Nazi regime which itself fell at the end of WWII.

Many above have mentioned a survey but the URL wasn't provided. It is here:

http://event.nationalgeographic.com/greendex/calculator.html

What is needed is to blow up all the coal power stations and oil refineries.

"What is needed is a whole new paradigm of cooperative Socialism. Becaue we can't do this alone, any more than we could build Wachington DC, or defend ourselves from enemies foreign and domestic, or put out fires, or build freeways, alone."

Indeed, FVHorn, but if you re-read the article at the top, it is individual Americans who are choosing to live like this, not the government or the corporations forcing us. Yes, they stoke the fire, but we don't have to jump into the flames with them. Collective greed is made up of individuals making choices. We either own up to our part as individuals, or we keep copping out making the scenario you pointed to a reality.

The American people, like people everywhere, will try to achieve a 'better' life for their children. And, like all tribes, if other tribes have to disappear to do this, so be it. If things get worse, prepare for massive die-offs of populations before things change. Read, THE LONG EMERGENCY, and you will weep at what we will become.

Read THE REVENGE OF GAIA and prepare for billions to die, as we have already overshot the carrying capacity of Earth by billions.

This tragedy might have been avoided, had we listened to people like Carter a generation ago, had we made Earth Day a Most Important National Holiday, and acted as though the very biosphere depended on it, which it does. And had we made family planning a cornerstone of our civilization, and of aid to poorer nations, instead of followed primitive religious taboos for cynical political ends.

Instead, humans are now putting out emissions equivalent to 17,000 volcanoes going off and NEVER stopping. Do ya think this might affect the atmosphere we breathe a wee bit?

Instead, America elected Mr. Greed Himself, Ronnie Reagan, and the Republicans have deified this moron, and pray to his corpse daily. Because Reagan promised a future of SUVs, superweapons and bloated military budgets, piggish greed as good, giant houses with giant mortgages, and World Rule by Corporations. And the Reagan ecological Enemy? Trees.

Others have decided this fate for us all. People in power now are motivated by greed alone. But greed is not just an American vice. It is worldwide. It is a human emotion. What is needed now is cooperation and another human emotion, empathy.

What is needed is a whole new paradigm of cooperative Socialism. Becaue we can't do this alone, any more than we could build Washington DC, or defend ourselves from enemies foreign and domestic, or put out fires, or build freeways, alone.

Government is vital. But what kind? Now, the greedmasters are in control of government, and are sucking its resources dry with massive corporate embezzlement, and are rendering the American government incompetent by malign design, so people will think they need the 'efficiency' of 'benevolent' corporations. By this alone, the current total Administration is guilty of treason against the Constitution, and should have been jailed a long time ago.

Now, corporations must be harnessed by the government of, by and for the people, and forced to consider environmental catastrophe in their plans. Just like WW2, when ALL private car manufacturing was made ILLEGAL. But of course, then the factories TURNED ON A DIME to make tanks and planes for the war. Because it was urgent and important (as if the climate and global ecological crises aren't).

The same could be done TODAY. But instead of tanks and planes, it would be solar cells, and wind generators, and air cars and so on. SUVs and jacked-up trucks can be made illegal to drive on any public road, and have to be turned in for compact cars. But we would have to FIGHT THE POWERS that Shrub-brained Bush and the Big Dick Cheney represent.

This same choice faces us now as in WW2. Do we allow things to go along as per usual, as thing spiral downwards? Or do we face up to the fact that WE ARE IN A DEATH STRUGGLE FAR GREATER than WW2, or the Cold War. And act as if we meant it.

If we face this together and come through, then this will be the greatest generation. Otherwise, it could be the last one.

Top tax rates of 90% must be applied, as they actually were in the period of America's ascent, as we do not want to reward people for so-called 'work' and 'money manipulations' that did not need doing. Work for work's sake must stop, and welfare must be vastly expanded to enable people to get off the corporate treadmill. People should be paid for simply doing no harm. All derivatives and futures trading must be banned worldwide.

Poorer nations must be helped to achieve the balance between development and the environment that supports life itself.

The Federal Reserve must be taken back from the bankers, and the American debt paid off in Fed dollars, all of it. Then the Fed will 'loan' money to the Federal and State and local governments AT NO INTEREST. The defusing of this debt-bomb will allow resources to flow towards the saving of the planet's life systems.

The UN must declare massive "no-go" zones for the planet, like the Arctic and Antarctic Oceans, and the deep Amazon, and major fish habitats. The ocean zones must be patrolled by ships and submarines that have the right and duty to torpedo and sink trespassers and bottom-trawlers, as these trespass against us all. This is not a joke. It is life or death for the whole planet.

America and the corrupt, venal, evil Republicans that now control this nation cannot buy their way out of the global catastrophe to come. There is nowhere to go, and air knows no political boundaries.

If things go along without mitigation and the current system is maintained, America and Americans will become ever more brutal to the rest of the world and towards each other inside America (as is already happening), if the fight for declining resources remains every human for himself in a dog-eat-dog world. And there will be a great lot of eaten dogs.

Or maybe Jesus will come.

dcbeltway,

What I'm suggesting is that we, as American individuals, start using our intuition and changing our lives. My intuition tells me that my current lifestyle is not sustainable. I don't need studies or tests to tell me that. They may confirm or not what my intuition tells me, but ultimately, I must act on my intuition.

As for biofuels: They are not the result of a lot of people refusing to do anything. They are a result of an industry ramming something down our throats with the help of paid-off people in Congress. How many people who you've spoken with have been clamoring for biofuels?

Look, we know enough about consumerism and waste. We've read the books and gone to the talks. If you don't believe that we're living in an unsustainable way, then there is nothing I can tell you that will make you change your mind. All I'm saying is that we, you and I, must act. Waiting for the studies and tests and politicians to tell us the "right way" to do everything is a recipe for inaction. There are no guarantees that everything we do will turn out well. If we screw up, we fix it (repeal the biofuels act and stop subsidizing corn growers!), but doing nothing in the face of what we know is suicidal. Actually, it's genocidal.

Just look at how much fast food, how many huge SUVs and monster homes are around. This country is for the most part a bunch of pigs snorting at the trough. We are disgusting in general as a people. They call us "ugly Americans" which is an appropriate title, because for the most part we are.

Asking for solutions is not unreasonable iammyself. We should be looking at potential consequences for any policies from green policies to political ones more often. A lot of people refused to look at the potential consequences for biofuels and look where that has gotten us with starvation in the developing world. A healthy skepticism is good thing as is considering the consequences of our policies. I'm all for helping the environment and curbing consumption just doing it in the right way.

The test is biased. They hate us for our freedoms. If it was just the heat or sea levels we are causing, all those cranky third world people would simply purchase air conditioners and boats instead of complaining about the good life we have invented.

Green Scam is more like it. We import shiploads of toxicity from the world's greatest producer, China. Lead, asbestos - all the things you foolishly assumed were held in check by some benevolent force are pumped and processed by the ton. Hydrocarbon economic stability is anything but, as was once taken for granted. Less oil is going to force, once and for all, green-ness.

I do hope NG continues to perform this survey, as I fully agree that trends are much more important than snapshots. But I also hope that they refine and revise their test. I indicated that I do not have a television in one of the questions. In another section, when asked if I planned on purchasing an Energy Star (or somesuch rating) television, I indicated that I wouldn't.

The survey apparently took that to mean I would not be replacing an appliance with a more efficient model. Just for kicks, I changed my answer and recalculated: I got a higher score.

Obviously it can't be considered "green" to purchase a television when one does not already own one. I don't own a motor vehicle, A/C unit (despite living in the subtropics) or home heating fixture...I now wonder if I should go back to the NG survey site and play around a bit?

Of course, the bigger picture presented by the survey's results still hold true: Americans are spoiled.

iammyself

I like that, lets use common sense for a change. lol

Sioux Rose

The statistics you quote could not be measured as a result of the test. I took it and got a pretty good score but it did not measure about 90% of the things people can or do to be green. Green being defined as not typical consumption. The test measures extremes, it is like measuring the toxin in your body as a test for health. It is a poorly designed test.

dcbeltway May 11th, 2008 12:24 pm

"Sorry after the biofuels debacle and the millions who are starving as a result of this "green idea" I am skeptical about anything that is labeled as "green". I support the environment but I want to know all the facts first before I get on board with any new "green policies" especially since big-business and those who impose our taxes seem to be interested in the green movement as a new means to make money. I also think the environmental movement needs to present more solutions when they tell us we must forgo things like airplane travel in order to protect the environment. Just let us know what the alternative choices are then or come up with them. Again, I care about the environment I just want real answers and I want to know the potential consequences of supporting new policies."

dcbeltway,

I mean no disrespect, but if we all wait to know the "potential consequences of supporting new policies", we'll be toast, IMO.

It's a matter of perspective. People who know, intuitively, that we are headed the wrong way can no longer wait for studies and political solutions. WE must start living in a manner that is less wasteful and at the same time makes demands on the system to change. The power and responsibility is ours. If we wait any longer, it will be on our shoulders. There are consequences to everything one does, including being paralyzed. Paralysis is no longer an option.

Let's start letting intuition lead us instead of political studies.

dcbeltway said: "the environmental movement needs to present more solutions "

When you spend $200 billion on the development of ONE airplane, you get a jet fighter that can go supersonic and ALSO hover in one spot.

In contrast, the 'environmental' movement is composed mainly of volunteers.

You get what you pay for. I think the environmental movement has done enough just trying to define for us the problem. If we can't be bothered finding solutions ourselves well, then, we'll just have to weather what follows.

I agree that it was not comprehensive, Treefrog, but let's not pick fly excrement out of pepper. The gist of the Green Test was to give us a general idea of "green-ness" - a general idea. No test could possibly measure every aspect of what people use and the waste they create.

There have been innumerable numbers of tests what support the conclusion that U.S. Americans consume far more than most of the rest of the world and create a waste stream to match. Hell, Vance Packard knew this in 1960 when he wrote his book "The Waste Makers."

"Vance Packard, America's foremost social critic, exposes the systematic attempt of business to make us wasteful, debt-ridden, permanently discontented individuals. And all under the pretense of 'keeping America Strong.'"

It's in the American psyche to be wasteful. Wastefulness is drilled into our heads from cradle to grave by every social entity, including our parents. Will progressives continue down this path while waiting for the "perfect" test or study or candidate to appear? Let's watch.

TREE FROG: All tests are biased in some manner. The point is the SPIRIT of its conclusions is right on. If the US uses 25% of fossil fuels with a population of 5% that alone screams out for a shift in actions & priorities, not to mention mass consciousness!

Back in Key West years ago my daughter's gymnastics instructor related that she often watched "The 700 Club" to see what the enemy was up to. I recently picked up "The Coming Economic Earthquake" by a Christian economist, Larry Burkett at a library book sale. Although he sees no problem with pork barrel spending or grotesque expenditures on militarism, and like so many neocons resents government helping the needy... he DOES raise some chilling parallels between the fall of Nazi Germany due to its currency and inflation patterns, and what's happening in America, today.

The historical models the book relates show nation's collapsing when their debt got too high, and when their money system was artificially expanded through "fiat" funds. Both phenomena are at work in the US and the only mystery is why things have not yet collapsed. Burkett speaks about the role of public confidence. After all, the Great Depression involved massive panic and a run on the banks. Is America held together now mostly by an effective con-game, and/or the reality that our military's muscle calls the shots in a "my way or the die way" sort of manner?

I share these thoughts because it's not JUST the rising price of gas that will alter "spoiled" American habits and their lifestyle equivalents. The end of oil, weather events, depreciating home prices (and the evaporation of presumed equity), and the loss of $ to invest in necessary infra-structure are only some of the challenges about to be faced. Bush truly has operated like a spoiled frat boy who took the property "rented" to him and destroyed every aspect of its integrity. As others in this forum have eloquently related, payback will not come cheap or easily!

Sorry after the biofuels debacle and the millions who are starving as a result of this "green idea" I am skeptical about anything that is labeled as "green". I support the environment but I want to know all the facts first before I get on board with any new "green policies" especially since big-business and those who impose our taxes seem to be interested in the green movement as a new means to make money. I also think the environmental movement needs to present more solutions when they tell us we must forgo things like airplane travel in order to protect the environment. Just let us know what the alternative choices are then or come up with them. Again, I care about the environment I just want real answers and I want to know the potential consequences of supporting new policies.

It was not a very comprehensive test...actually it was biased.