The Clintons are no better than the right wing racists smearing and screaming on the radio and television everyday but they have done us a favor by showing us how pervasive racism is within the democratic party. This is a sad reminder that must be faced head on. When 20 percent of Clinton voters say they will never vote for a black person and with the Clintons stroking the flames of racism for their own political advantage we can see we are going backwards.

All this fuss over a political whore? In a few weeks she will crawl back into her Senate seat and continue to get rich by selling out the American people.
Hoa binh

Clinton is bucking to become McCain's running mate rather than Obama's. I'm glad to see superdelegates starting to punish her by joining Obama.

"...white Americans, is weakening again and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me..."

"WHITE(s)" twice in one sentence. It's clear Over the HILL-ary and her lecher-pervert husband Bill are closet and not-so-closet racists.

Bill made the statement that Obama could run for the presidency on the fact that he hadn't stolen a car "YET." Bill the pervert also helped Rush Limbaugh out when the gasbag was sick and filled in on his radio show.

"You may have missed it - almost everyone missed it - but Bill Clinton was on Rush Limbaugh's show the day of the Texas primary."
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/clinton-went-on.html

Hilary is a neocon, so is Bill. They are corrupt to the core and I am not referring to Whitewater or Monica.

Obama better not get the idea of having her as VP.
She'll pull the trigger on him herself.

I forgot about the Rocky Balboa/Black comment.
Those Clintons, real class.

Wow, I guess the Obama fans really have sorted out all the facts for us. Hillary is a whore! Bill is a lecher-pervert. great way to unite the party behind your man.
Whore is almost always a reference to a woman, which Hillary is. And Bill and Monica wasn't deviant behavior, behavior that probably wouldn't ever have happened had Bill had his way with his "whore" wife.
Whatever you think of the Clintons, they are more electable. Racism is in America just as much as woman-hating is in fashion with the pro-Obama crowd. Should your man Obama lose, it will be because of racism you don't want to see.
"Hoa binh" is an expression that no sexist should use. It represents advancement and equality without regard to race or sex. Hillary has done more for her cause than you ever will for yours by attacking her. Yes her methods may be somewhat unsound. Unless you've forgotten, John McCain is the reason for the season. Save your hatred for him or Hillary fans might save it for you and your idol come November. (Being anonymous, you might simply be Republicans in sheep's clothing trying to split the party.)

I think all this bickering is counterproductive. The race is almost over, Obama will most likely be presumptive nominee as he's now leading by every single metric. We should come together and support the Democrats so that we can put the country back on the right track.

I would like the true Democrats, both Clinton and Obama supporters alike, to beware that there are Republican/Limbaugh operatives posing as Democrats in here who are trying to stir division amongst ourselves.

It's easy to tell who these people are: they are overtly racist, emotional, and do not offer any substantive reasoning. I've seen many of these people spend their entire day commenting on various websites under various bogus identities, copying and pasting the same talking points in order to disrupt civil discussion and stir up division.

No true Democrat is going to vote for McCain and have 4 more years of war, recession, no health care and a stacked Supreme Court that will overturn Roe vs. Wade.

McCain/Clinton '08

Its coming.

The most likely way that McCain will be avoided (if he is avoided at all) is through the team-up of Obama/Clinton-----and just listen to all the naysayers.

Look for Barack to at least attempt to "manage" Hill, Bill, supers and convention. She may decline the VP spot, and she just might join and bring most of those non-college whites with her. She has to fully lose the top job first, and that's where we are for a few weeks (but not months.)

Who says we are all Democrats? I lean towards Green and pretty much always vote outside the system for progressives.

I agree with JBPeeples: Obama's supporters are alienating those of us who see through his deception, and making it much more difficult for him in November. I don't want him to win; I don't want McCain to win, either. I could have lived with Hillary Clinton without being thrilled about it. It's as simple as that.

I'm tired of all the hand ringing re. the dangers of Senator McCain's getting a "Head Start, etc.,etc."

He is a FLAWED candidate!!! There is a virtual treasure trove of material out there, which will serve to inform the citizenry about Senator McCain. Much of which he has, and continues to, provide himself.

The Clintons have taken the Demo party to new lows by playing the race card in addition to using Carl Rove character smear tactics.

Horrible Hillary is using a very old political trick from the South in a desperate attempt to sustain her lust for power at any price.

In America poor white trash are more than happy to vote for rich white trash on the basis of racism.

The elite political criminals elected in this manner then abuse the working poor who voted for them.

Every time HIllary hurls a more or less obvious insult at Obama she is insulting the judgment and choice of every Democratic voter who voted for him.

If by some extraordinary miracle or incredibly devious backrooming at the DNC she winds up being the candidate I really don't know for whom I'll vote or if I'll vote at all. How can anyhone vote for a candidate who has spent months telling you that you don't know what you are doing in supporting Obama????

(From white woman, 70 years old.)

When this primary race is over, Hillary's first task should be to tell the truth about Senator Obama to all of those blue collar, white voters who supported her only because they believed all of that right-wing nonsense about Senator Obama being an anti-American, Muslim, neo-communist dupe.

Black Block Voting Won North Carolina for Obama

Barack Obama won the black vote in North Caralina 91-6%. Hillary Clinton won the white vote 59-36%.

If the black preference for Obama had fallen in the same range as the white preference for Clinton, she would have picked up the difference between 6% and 36%, which would have amounted to 30% of the black vote.

Since African-American voters comprised 33% of the vote in the North Carolina Democratic primary, Hillary Clinton would have received another 30% x 33%, or 10% of the total vote, and Obama would have received 10% less.

Instead of 56-40% in favor of Obama, the vote would have been 50-46% in favor of Clinton, and Hillary Clinton would have won the North Carolina Democratic primary.

In Indiana the story is more or less the same, with Obama winning the black vote 92-8%, and Clinton winning the white vote 60-40%. A split of the black vote similar to the split in the white vote would have given Clinton an additional 32% of the black vote, which comprised 15% of the voters, and this would have given her another 5% of the toal vote.
Instead of winning 51-49%, Hillary Clinton would have won by 56-44%, which is just the sort of double-digit win that the army of pundits declared she needed to remain "competitive."

In the Ohio Democratic primary, the color splits were 89-11% and 61-38%, and similar splits would have given Ms. Clinton another 27% of the black vote, which comprised 19% of the total vote. This would have added another 5% of the total vote to Hillary Clinton's side of the ledger, subtracted the same from Obama, and instead of winning Ohio by 54-44%, Ms. Clinton would have won the state 59-39%, a 20 point blow-out.

In many states where Mr. Obama won by large margins, similar splits among black and white voters would have reduced the margin to single digits, and eliminated most of the difference in pledged delegates.

Mr. Obama won in Maryland, for example, where black voters comprised 37% of the total, and split 84-15% for Obama. Clinton won the white vote 52-42%. Similar splits would have given Clinton another 27% of the black vote, or a little more than 9% of the total vote, and Mr. Obama's 61-36% blow-out victory would have turned into 52-45%. It would still be a win, but instead of picking up 60% of Maryland's 70 delegates, or 42 delegates, while Clinton claimed 28, for a 14-delegate difference, the delegates would have been split 37-33, for a 4-delegate difference.

In Pennsylvania, the white vote split 62-38% for Clinton, while the black vote split 89-11% for Obama. Similar splits would have given Ms. Clinton another 27% of the black vote, which was 15% of the total vote. This would have meant an addition 4% of the total vote, and Ms. Clinton would have won Pennsylvania by 58.6% to 41.4% for Mr. Obama, instead of 54.6% to 45.4%. In the actual vote, Pennsylvania's 158 delegates were split 85-73 for Clinton, but with similar splits among black and white voters, the delegates would have split 93-65 for Clinton.

Mr. Obama won the black vote in Louisiana by 86-13% and Ms. Clinton won the white vote 58-30%. The black vote comprised 48% of the total, and similar color splits would have given Ms. Clinton an additional 17% of the black vote, which would have amounted to 8% of the total vote. Mr. Obama would still have won Louisiana with 49.4% to 43.6% for Hillary Clinton, instead of 57.4% to 35.6%, but instead of picking up 12 delegates in a 34-22 split, Mr. Obama would have received only 30 pledged delegates to 26 for Ms. Clinton.

Although the black-white vote splits followed a different pattern in a few states like Vermont and New Mexico, nationwide Mr. Obama has won 81.7% of the black vote, while Ms. Clinton wins 54% of the white vote. Polarization of black voters has increased since John Edwards dropped out of the race, with Mr. Obama typically winning around 90% of the black vote since the beginning of March.

In the last 10 primaries, Mr. Obama has won by large majorities and lost by narrow margins, but without polarized black block voting in North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Louisiana, Indiana, Maryland, and elsewhere, the picture would be exactly reversed, with Hillary Clinton winning by large margins and losing narrow majorities, and Mr. Obama's lead in delegates would be small or non-existent.

Hillary Clinton and her surrogates have been engaged in racial coding (DUH) and pandering to the racism that is part of the bedrock of America.

She and Bill are part of the foundation of the Democratic Leadership Council, who supported welfare deform, NAFTA, staying in Iraq, etc.

As a New Yorker, I have several obscene gestures for Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary for her racist remarks. Change woman for black and the remark is sexist.

Might as well add the combined choice vocabulary of a fleet of NYC taxi drivers.

The level of discourse about the problems (issues are what magazines come in) that confront this country needs to grow in sophistication and specificity needs to be ramped up and quickly.

I hope that Helen Thomas is right about this country being able to take the truth about where we are and how we got here. We need it because the liars and distractors are working overtime.

What rubbish. I am sick and tired of this harping on the evilness of the wicked Monster Mommy. It diminshes women everywhere. It's women whose votes are being relegated to the trashcan. Women and the old and workers of every ethnicity. Not bloggers and middle class media pros and whatever creative (? - what do they create apart from delusions, false expectations and vile misogynistic jokes) workers are. And no, she isn't playing the race card. Obamabots are, by claiming she is.

hitlery is a self-destructive borderline personality disordered narcissist who deserves no mercy

face it

This non-stop Clinton bashing is hurting the Democratic party, because it ultimately translates into Clinton-supporter bashing.

Clinton has many many supporters, as many (or nearly as many) as Obama. Obama NEEDS the vast majority of their votes to win the general election. Do any of you Clinton bashers think that your words/actions are going to convince Clinton supporters to vote for Obama ? If so, you're in for a rude awakening in November.

I can understand the Republican party attempting to create a "civil war" scenario, but Democrats doing it to their own party ? It's totally self-destructive ! This isn't the Superbowl, you dummies !

Obama is not bashing Clinton. Remember that, Clinton supporters. He has always said she has the right to campaign as long as she wants, and that it's not over yet. I know the two of them will eventually work to bring us all together, for it is vital to do so. I also believe that the Republicans would love to see us never come together and make each side think the other Dems will vote for McCain in November if their nominee isn't chosen, when I do not truly believe that us good-hearted Democrats would punish the entire country by doing so. Hang in there.

Atheist, you don't really know the majority of posters are. A Republican can pose as a disgruntled Democrat.

We can only be strong if we come together behind whomever the nominee is.

Oldbadgertoo, you're very wrong when you say women's votes are being relegated to the trash can. I guess you dismiss black women's votes as merely 'black' votes, though they are more than half of those. I guess you dismiss 'Obamagirl' votes as merely 'the young' votes. I guess you count women who vote ONLY BECAUSE Hillary is a(ny) woman as the only real votes from women, and that these are the ones being "relegated to the trash can".

I know you want to see a woman president before you're dead. And I was a reluctant Hillary supporter- and voter!- after Kucinich, Gravel and Edwards dropped out, or were "relegated to the trashcan" in your parlance, because of her imputed 'ability to win against a Republican'. And only then because I know Ralph Nader is Automatically "relegated to the trashcan" in the current political structure. Run by the Clintons, among others.

But as her campaign went on, I became more and more disillusioned with her, and Bill, too. She is now revealed to be a giant hypocrite and a political hack whose only motivating force is a lust for power. She compares herself with Rocky now? She has the entire DLC political machine at her back. She came in as the presumptive heir to the throne. Now she is having 'bad luck' because of black voting?

She has been unmasked as a NeoCon right-winger in gentle sheep's clothing. She will do and say anything to 'win' the 'game', and we have learned through her current campaign and the Bill Clinton presidency that progressive voters cannot trust her at all, nor Bill! More electable? Really doubtful, and so what?

She self-destructed. She had her shot, and was not inspiring. In fact, the opposite of inspiring, instead she was disappointing. When she said she was really against NAFTA when it was being shoved down America's throat by Bill and the Republicans (do you hear Perot's giant sucking sound yet?), her campaign manager Mark Penn and hubby Bill were AT THAT VERY MOMENT unseemly over-paid lobbyists FOR the new Columbian version of NAFTA. And she never answered how Bill and she made over a hundred million dollars in the Bush years. And on and on. Meanwile, I have become more and more impressed with Mr. Obama, and am now a supporter of his.

See the book, WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH KANSAS to figure out how to get people to vote AGAINST their own interests. Hillary learned well from the old political-operative pro Bill, on how to work this technique.

No, don't play the sexist card of "if you don't vote for Hillary, it is because you are sexist." I would gladly vote for a woman, just not this one.

And as for Mr. Freeze, Mark Twain once said there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. What do your stats prove? That people are voting by tribe now? That the Democrats are divided and conquered? That if this or that were changed then Hillary would win the nomination, and thus go on to lose to the REAL 'it's a 3 AM Call' military-defense candidate, McCain? Well, if this or that were changed in a very different way, I could win the nomination. So what? Parse it endlessly, like the MSM do, any way you want, but the vote is the vote is the vote. End of story. Just ask Bush, Cheney, and the Supremes.

Obama's supporters have alienated MILLIONS of voters. We will be stuck with McCain because the Obamaniacs don't understand they have supported a sure loser. He doesn't deserve to be President. It's all so sad.

I'll vote for Cynthia McKinney.

Thanks Rich. What you said is code for "He's black". Gotcha. We know. Now go away.

OldBadgertoo, Hillary didn't get the young woman vote, Obama did. I'm sorry you feel that your vote was thrown away because you didn't get what you want, but life is like that sometimes. Do you ever listen to the Stones?

"And I went down to the demonstration
To get my fair share of abuse
Singing, "We're gonna vent our frustration
If we don't we're gonna blow a 50-amp fuse"
Sing it to me now...
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you just might find
You get what you need"

mairs, I heard, and I'm not kidding, a young "man on the street" being interviewed who admitted that he voted for Obama because he was "the younger candidate". Ageism is not a good thing, especially when electing leaders of our country.

Your "Can't Always Get What You Want" reference is misguided. It's not a protest song.

Clinton is favored by women who are 50% of the voters. Why not compare the female vote to the black vote instead of white versus black? Of course blacks will vote for Obama since they are not bothered by the idea of the candidate being black. Obama is losing votes because of racism, not because he is not a good candidate for president. The black block vote concept as unfair is wrong. People voting against someone because he is black is wrong too. So is voting against a woman because she is a woman.

Obama should forget the idea of having Hillary as VP. As a previous poster said, she'd pull the trigger on him herself (if she could get away with it). She and Bill will just hire a hit man to do the dirty work. Both she and Bill the lecher are that desperate and insane for power.

lillulu, what a ridiculous and hateful post. Why not post something intelligent ?

lizard, I suspect there are many people voting against Clinton because she's a woman, but they don't recognize it as such because their prejudice is hidden behind "preferences" ... they prefer women to exhibit certain personality characteristics and behaviors that are stereotypically female, and when a women doesn't exhibit those characteristics/behaviors they find it distasteful, but don't necessarily recognize it as gender bias. Witness a post from another thread, a poster complained about Clinton's "mannish hair-dos", like it's unacceptable for a women to have short hair. (Actually, her haircuts are far from mannish unless we're talking about George Michaels in the 80's !)

Hillary compares herself to Rocky Balboa? LOL
It seems she wants to be a man so badly, a testosterone-filled tough guy. Maybe she really IS a lesbian like the Republicans have been claiming for years.

Dummy, she was talking to an audience in PA. Get it ? Are you that ignorant ? (You've already answered that question.)

atheist: don't be so sure. the clinton republican lite was a joke. on him. he got played by the school yard bullies even as he was kissing their hind quarters. no. this is for real now. and as a white working class voter, i say give bill and hill a final cigaret, a blindfold, and a brick wall to stand in front of.
you can guess the rest. reducing this election to race, while america stands on the brink of collapse is tantamount to treson. i've read mcbeth. i've no need to see it played out in real time on american soil. if the people of this country don't take charge, get beyond of mid-evil considerations of race and sexual orientation and which god you mindlessly adhere to, well, say goodbye. and unlike the bushes, the haliburtons et al, we can't just move to paraguy or dubai. we're stuck. and we'd better start getting it right. other democracies might be worth studying in the event they may have some insights on how to manage health care, the military, international relations,
education, their tax dollars. so far this american country has the attitude of a stooges movie: what? they've discovered a cure for cancer in france? yuck, yuck, yuck! forget it you nitwit. we'll find our own.

Who is reducing this election to race ? I'm white, I want to see a black President. If Hillary doesn't win the nomination, I'm voting for Cynthia McKinney. And for all of the white people who end up not voting for a half-black man, don't assume they are doing so for racial reasons. I can't stand Obama, I think he is a self-serving egomaniac whose #1 concern is himself, not our country. Has nothing to do with race whatsoever.

If you want to blame a Dem loss on someone, try Obama. He and his rabid supporters are the ones who created this muck-fest, the media enabled it, and the Dem leaders failed to stop it before it created permanent irreversable damage.

The problem is that Hillary is attempting to distract voters from the issues, like where all the jobs (besides fast food jobs) have gone, why is it getting harder and harder to get by (the reverse of progress), etc. Instead of encouraging people to think about their futures, and their childrens' futures, she wants them to instead just think about race and who's "elite" or not.

She's trying her darndest to make sure that people do not vote based on the issues. And that's a shame because the democratic party has a real opportunity to be the party that addresses the issues and distinguish itself from the pander-to-the-rich-and-pay-lip-service-to-"values" republican party.

atheist: "think he is a self-serving egomaniac"

And you're saying that Hillary isn't an egomaniac as he supposedly is? Come on, give me a break, you've got to come up with something better than this.

If what Obama-fans are emitting here is anything to go by: They make Hillary Clinton (and her lousy tactics) still look like a saint by comparison.

SHAME ON YOU AND YOUR MISOGYNY!

Hillary Clinton a "saint?" Please. What on earth are you smoking? The immature voters in this country need to get past race and sex as the big issues and concentrate on whether the person is competent and honorable. Unfortunately, Hillary doesn't fit into that category.

Amazing: black voters overwhelmingly supporting Obama. I guess they are just a little tired of the wonderful treatment from the white power structure. Or, maybe, they were tired of being called "uncle toms" for voting for whitey all the time (like there was a choice). But really Freeze, all you are saying: black people are stupid and vote based on color. Right? I am so confused. Whatever dude.

I am in favor of a female POTUS - just not this one. Still, if she were the nominee, I would vote for her. But, that ain't gonna happen.

Jacob Freeze,

Sure are a lot of "if onlys" there.

atheist,

And just what has been your illustrious contribution to society?

"Listening to Hillary Clinton's top aides trying to put a good face on the results of the Indiana primary had the same surreal quality as an aide to Hitler reporting "encouraging news" from Stalingrad. Her candidacy died on May 5. She needed at least a 10 per cent win in Indiana and in the end she scraped through by not much more than 16,000 votes. Every day she stays in the race now means more zeroes on her campaign debt which probably tops $25 million, when all the IOUs are counted. Hillary might have to go back into the cattle futures business.

There's talk of Mrs Clinton telling Obama that the price of concession is that he settle her campaign debt and take her on the ticket. He's got the money though he should for worthier purposes. As for the number 2 spot, what does it take to keep the Clintons clear of the White House? A stake through both their hearts? An Aztec priest with a really sharp piece of obsidian? If ever a campaign disclosed low moral and political fiber, it was this one. Bill ended up as a petulant sleazeball and Hillary as a war drum thumper, marching shoulder to shoulder with John McCain, shouting that she's the candidate of the white people.

There's no better paradigm of the corruption of the Clintons than the pardon handed by Bill to billionaire Marc Rich in the dying seconds of the Clinton administration. Jeffrey St Clair has excavated the whole sleazo saga in fascinating detail in our latest newsletter, available to subscribers only. "Bill and the Rich Women" is must reading, as is the view taken by Rich's powerful lawyers that Hillary Clinton was key to the pardon."
--- Alexander Cockburn

Time heals all wounds.
I was an enthusiastic supporter of John Edwards (still am) and I fought tooth-and-nail with Obama supporters here at CD until Edwards gave up his bid for the nomination. At that time, I thought that there was no way that I could support Obama, but I was wrong. There is no doubt that between Hillary and Barack, Obama is by far the superior candidate and the one with the most progressive values. Barack will destroy McCain in the general, and many of those who say now that they will not vote for him, well, they will see the light long before November. The polls mean nothing now, but after Obama is the nominee and his running mate is named, polls will become more valid.
Hillary should drop out now!
Obama '08

By the way, McCain is not a war hero.
He, like Bush and Cheney, has been a coward all his life.

JBPeebles May 10th, 2008 12:53 pm
Wow, I guess the Obama fans really have sorted out all the facts for us. Hillary is a whore!

He was referring to "Political Whores", not calling Hillary a whore, calm down.
Anyway, I voted for Obama, will write in Dennis if something occurs in so far as Iraq or AIPAC pandering(anymore anyway)yet today at a friends I was crossing through the living room and Senator Obama was speaking, "I will bring an end to the war in Iraq and bring our troops home...", I yelled, with other Veterans for Peace yelling"WHAT WTF WHAT????", I told them what he said, we were so elated. More in the tone of a Presidential candidate, yet too soon so I will bide time and call Dennis. I trust no one but Kucinich any more. I need whens, hows, dates, lots 'o things....

Wow. Just scrolled through many posts. Rational posters have become irrational, posters I've never heard of before with the "ageism, sexism, misogyny, lesbian(is that bad?), lech", on and on.
I know it is an Election year we are thread bare after 8 years of that. Tomorrow reread what that was all about, gheez...

Atheist, I wasn't referring to the Stones song as a protest song. I meant that the women who aren't getting what they want, Hillary nominated, may instead get what they need, Obama. That is my opinion.

Also, my remark to Oldbadgertoo about Obama getting the young female vote means that women are not a monolithic group that have just been entirely disenfranchised because Hillary will not be nominated, as Oldbadger suggested.

"All this fuss over a political whore? In a few weeks she will crawl back into her Senate seat and continue to get rich by selling out the American people."
Hoa binh

Shame on you Hoa binh! She's NOT a political whore. She's a corporate whore...

"whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me . . . There's a pattern emerging here."

Yes, dumb ass white trash love Hellary...great

"President Clinton, you know, reached across and got a whole lot of Republicans and independents to come."

And Monica reached under the desk and got HIM to come.

I wish I could loan my self 4 million dollars. I could sure use it now as I am really bitter today (and yesterday, and the day before that). Is the war still going on? Just wondering.

Don't get mean. Vote Green.

It is really simple folks...Hillary Clinton is a known Bush enabler, and CANNOT be allowed to win the nomination.

The republicans know that no matter who they put up this year, they wont win...that is why they put that senile two faced old fart up for the race...they are actually counting on Hillary to be their "man". She is the Republican ghost candidate.