How dare these rebellious children display their contempt for our traditional rights of liberty and freedom by daring to exercise them!

Not that Mel Olson puts so fine a point on it. He risked making the Ultimate Sacrifice in order to protect us from enemies who would abolish our enviable Amerikan way of life, presumably to replace it with evil authoritarian oppression administered by cruel, rule-crazy overlords.

To paraphrase Old Lodge Skins in "Little Big Man": "There is an endless supply of Mels. There has always been a limited number of human beings."

This isn't to bash poor benighted Mr. Olson per se. I expect that the popular superficial adult reaction to this story, and others like it, is to refuse to "dignify" or "glorify" teenage contrariness and rebellion as anything as worthy as "freedom of speech" and expression. The Rule is to stand up, the kids didn't stand up! Don't try to turn these kids into heroes, martyrs, or victims! End of story.

I'm also a veteran and an American citizen and I think it's BS. What do they require next, that the kids swear an oath to George Bush? Freedom goes both ways, freedom to--- or freedom from.

Just another thought while we're kicking this around, why do schools suspend kids for petty s*&t anyway? Why not assign some kind of extra work that would require reserch? Heaven forbid they learn something instead of going home and playing video games.

I stand on a corner once a week with a group that has been protesting the war since it started, and a driver last week slowed down enough to make the oft-repeated claim that, if it weren't for the people (soldiers) fighting over there (Iraq, Afghanistsan), we would not have the freedom to stand on a corner and voice our opposition to the war.

In other words, he meant that freedom isn't free.

Requiring students to stand, or stupid slogans like "Freedom isn't free," miss the point. We owe more of our freedoms and rights to those who are like the students who doubt the value of standing, and who have the conviction to resist, or to the folks who are willing to hold a sign, or volunteer for a door-to-door campaign, than we do to the work of soldiers. Too many of our wars have been unnecessary, and more about empire than freedom. Even dictators have armies advancing their interests.

Our everyday committment to upholding the freedom of speech of these students and others like them is far more essential to our rights and freedoms than the occasional war.

Oh well, it's Minnesota, Eh!!!
They do things different up there, they probably forced everyone to include the "under god" thingie too.
Nowadays, whenever I say the pledge, I change the last sentence from "And Justice for All" to
And justice for SOME. That seems a bit more appropriate given the current situation.

Fire the principal for civil rights violations.

Send the little subhuman pro-terrorist traitors to Guantanamo! Make them stand on one leg eight hours a day! Waterboard them! All loyal citizens will salute the blood flag and hail the leader! Godblessamerica!

Oops, sorry. I've been reading about Nazi Germany again.

I am also a U.S. citizen, not by choice, but by birth. I also am a VietNam Vet, 1968, and I refuse to sing the national anthem or recite "The Pledge". As an "adult" I don't have that many occasions to stand and deliver, but when I do, I don't. I was in grammar(do they still teach grammar? Not by what I often see in blog posts)school when they added under God, and I have never recited that. My father, who was a Federal employee and had never served in the military for legitimate reasons(he tried, but was refused)was angered at the addition of this phrase, even though we believed in God and we went to church every Sunday. He supported us in not saying the phrase. He was a staunch supporter of the separation of church and state. I don't get the meaning of "...if it weren't for the people (soldiers) fighting over there (Iraq, Afghanistsan), we would not have the freedom to stand on a corner and voice our opposition to the war." That seems to be the whole point. Because some are fighting, we have that right, so what is the point of punishing someone for exercising that right? If someone is standing on the corner in the U.S.A. protesting some action or policy of the government, they are exercising the freedoms for which the military is supposedly in place to defend. I personally don't believe in the use of force and violence to "defend" a free and peaceful society, but that is a whole other discussion.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

I applaud these kids. These are the ones who will also refuse to wear flag pins when they become mandatory dress along with our brown shirts and iron heels.
Hoa binh

Not to impugn educators...but I keep hearing more and more stories like this one.
Seems like the educators need some education...or deprogramming

I don't stand for the ..."O SAY CAN YOU SEE..." and I'm old enough to remember WW II

Oh, great, another principal who doesn't read the applicable Supreme Court ruling on this. West Virginia v. Barnette. They can't even make you stand. You don't even have to acknowledge the activity, just be quiet and allow others to make their religious oath (which is what the Pledge really is).

Here's your homework, principal:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=319&invol=624

"He said he backs the punishment, "being a veteran and a United States of America citizen, absolutely." Olson served in the Marines in Japan during the Vietnam War."

It would seem that Mr. Olson has forgotten the oath that he took in order to become a Marine.

Not much fighting going on in Japan during the Vietnam war.

Add me to the list of veterans who have a hard time with this compulsory allegiance. I have very mixed feelings when I look at the American flag. For those of us who've stood on foreign soil, heard the Star Spangle Banner played as the colors were raised, the memories take on a special significance. But now I just wonder where it is all heading.

A vet friend of mine recently made that familiar quip about loving his country, but fearing the government. Perhaps that's the distinction.

While I completely support the clear separation of church and state, which has become one of the cruelest jokes in this country of late, I will say that both - our faith in religious and patriotic terms - are individual matters, which we should be free to decide and embrace as we choose.

I lost my faith in religion many years ago . . . and now, with all that has happened over the last seven or so years, my patriotic faith has been shaken to its very core.

I applaud and second st john's commitment to Oneness through Justice and Transformation.

Peace to you, and all, brother.
Tennegon

"The function of a citizen and a soldier are inseparable."

"It is the State which educates its citizens in civic virtue, gives them a consciousness of their mission and welds them into unity."

"The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fascism the State is absolute, individuals and groups relative."

Benito Mussolini

I live in red, Republican Alaska. I went to a nonpolitical meeting recently, and at the start of the meeting we were required to stand up and salute the flag. After having to do it for 13 years (counting kindergarten), I had had enough, but I didn't want to be carted away to jail or humiliated and kicked out of the meeting, so I obliged.

I think I'd feel more like doing the pledge if we had honest elections and if I had proof that my vote was actually counted. I'd also feel more enthusiastic about the pledge if my tax money wasn't spent on the military-industrial complex for war profiteering for the super rich while killing innocent people in the process. I don't "hate America," by the way. I hate the fact that it's run by a bunch of war criminals and thugs in expensive business suits (paid for by us taxpayers).

The Pledge of Allegiance (note the capital letters), saluting the flag, the wearing of lapel pins...

What's next? A few "Seig Heils" for your moronic Fuerher

Apart from North Korea, the US is the only country in the world that requires such faux rituals.

Okay, so what's the "punishment" for those who proudly recite the Pledge of Allegiance and then immediately violate said Pledge by, oh, let's say illegally invading a pair of soverign nations, murdering and maiming millions of innocents, US soldiers and citizen private contractors, torture at will, illegally spy on Americans for eight years, and rape our Treasury?

Answer: Medals of Freedom.

jennifer simpson:

would they like to hear from us folks that support their actions as well?

Please. Iraq was no threat whatsoever to our freedoms. Never had been and never will be. We're there so that Bush and all his rich buddies can get richer on our tax money while our "free" nation goes down the toilet.

The way we've been treating the rest of the world for the last 30 yrs. certainly wouldn't want to make me stand up and recite anything pro America.

As Jefferson does another roll-over in his grave...

Principals come from jock stock. Do you really expect them to understand the meaning of Democracy. When the jocks stop controlling our schools, then schools will again be safe for our children.

This whole pledge of allegiance (to a colored piece of cloth) is FASCIST RUBBISH; plain and simple. And this isn't hyperbole. No genuine democracy in the entire world even has such a pledge-to-a-flag.

I worked in public schools for 30 years and yes, there is an unlimited supply of jock stock to administer public schools. As a rule, if they are not downright stupid, racist, ass kissers, they are barely a cut above that crowd.

The principal in question is probably about par for the course. He just got caught. He probably got chewed out not for what he did, but for being the cause of bad press for the district.

• How about this: the kids stand, but when the pledge is finished they get to shout: "Bong hits 4 Jesus!"

• The trappings of jingoism under discussion-- anthems, flags, behavior and etiquette-- doubtless arose in part from a simple desire and satisfaction in expressing national pride. This is pretty much the stuff of cheerleaders, pep squads, boosters-- to be taken or left alone in accordance with individual values and sensibilities.

But over time, the symbols are manipulated by the elite in power, and are invested with an irrational mythic significance. Perhaps "encumbered" is more accurate. And all of this Yankee Doodle Dandy frou-frou becomes solemn articles of faith in their own right, to the point where participation isn't optional.

Too lazy to Google the specifics, but IIRC, George Steinbrenner ordered concession stands at Yankee Stadium to close during the seventh inning stretch, because he was irritated that hordes of fans would leave their seats during the singing of "God Bless America". What was wrong with them?

I should because THE LEADERSHIP of my country is wrong? Not likely.

You don't like the country move. If you don't like what Mrs Dahl said or her son said, mail a letter:
FYI: don't be rude or send hate mail. Tell them how you feel.

JS

Ummmm Jennifer Simpson -- I have a major problem with you posting someone else's private information on the net without their permission and inviting whomever to write to them. It's a VIOLATION OF PRIVACY and it's called HARASSMENT.

The educational system in the U.S. has never learned how to teach the spiritual dynamics of Democracy, the competitive synthesis for truth, and neither have our churches.

I have trouble with the mindless repetition of the Pledge, but this analysis perhaps is worth thinking about, especially if we take it to heart.
-------------------------------------------
I pledge allegiance to the flag... What is a flag? Webster's describes it as a piece of cloth or bunting with distinctive colors, patterns or symbolic devices used as a state symbol. In general it is an easily recognized symbol of a nation or group. Our flag has gone through many incarnations from the Grand Union flag of the revolution through an ever increasing number of stars as states were added to the Union. The flag of the United States, "Old Glory," has flown proudly as the ensign on ships protecting our shipping from both the British, and Barbary pirates, in the 1800''s, from the crest of Mt. Suribachi on Iwo Jima in World War II to the moon and beyond, as painted on Voyager, now on its way to the stars. Sadly, it has flown just as proudly at Wounded Knee, Manzanar, Mai Lai, Falluja and Guantanamo.

Of the United States of America... What is the United States of America? It is a vast country, bounded on the East and West by the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, by Canada to the North and Mexico to the South, not to mention Alaska and Hawaii beyond those boundaries. It is the home of diverse people and cultures and has every extreme of climate and geology.

And to the Republic for which it stands... What is a Republic? "It is a state or nation in which the supreme power rests in all the citizens entitled to vote (the electorate) and is exercised by representatives elected directly or indirectly by them and responsible to them."

What is it that makes our republic so unique in the annals of history? It is the three documents bequeathed to us by the founders of our nation, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States, and the first ten amendments to the Constitution, known as the Bill of Rights. The founders of this nation had had their fill of autocratic government, unresponsive to the needs and wishes of its citizens. The Declaration of Independence spelled out that every person had the inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Inalienable means that it cannot be taken away or abridged. It also declared that every man had the right to rebel against those rights being infringed. After a long and bitter campaign, the United States of America was born.

A Constitutional Convention was held in which the framework of government was hammered out When completed, it was a remarkably brief document consisting of seven articles which concisely spelled out the rights, privileges and obligations of all three branches of government and how each of the three should provide a system of checks and balances on the others so that no branch of the government could assume dictatorial power or infringe upon the rights of the people. Included was the process by which the Constitution could be amended.

When the Constitutional Convention had drafted the document, almost as an afterthought it was decided that there should be an enumeration of simple acknowledged principles of the rights of man. The list of an American citizen's rights was to be an absolute barrier to infringement by the government upon the citizenry. These were added as the first ten amendments to the Constitution and called the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights is the irrevocable law of the land, the nation's ultimate guarantee of human dignity for every American.

One Nation, under God, indivisible...The First Amendment declares the separation of church and state, but nowhere does it state that belief in a Supreme Being is something that cannot be professed publicly or shown in public places. Neither does it ban prayer in public. Rather, the separation of church and state was to guard against the growth of any sort of ruling theocracy such as had been seen throughout much of human history, where the church ruled and dictated human behavior according to its particular beliefs. Indivisible because since the civil war, we have hung together as one nation despite our differences.

With Liberty and Justice for all. Those ten amendments are that guarantee. (In actuality, if you read it carefully, the Bill of Rights does not guarantee these rights, it forbids the government to interfere with them)They cannot be abridged regardless of expediency. Nowhere else in the world does a citizen enjoy the enumerated rights and benefits guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. The President takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, as do the Senate and the House. The Supreme Court is to enforce those Constitutional guarantees and see that neither of the other two branches of government violates or tries to set aside those rights. It is the duty of every citizen to see that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is protected. Without them, the United States of America is nothing special, just another big country ruling its people any way it sees fit. And the people become no more than servants of the state.
-------------------------------------------
SO, I think it is up to We the People to enforce the above as the three branches that were supposed to have chosen to emulate a number of the dictatorial powers that our nation, along with much of the rest of the world, once fought and bled to defeat.

"jennifer simpson" said:
"You don't like the country move. If you don't like what Mrs Dahl said or her son said, mail a letter:
[Address omitted]
FYI: don't be rude or send hate mail. Tell them how you feel."

---

Jesus Christ, what a stupid thing to do. I encourage the site monitors to please remove "jennifer simpson"'s post. It's definitely harassment and possibly illegal to post someone else's home address without their consent for the express purpose of encouraging others to send them hate mail (despite "jennifer simpson"'s feeble protestations to the contrary).

"jennifer simpson," if you don't like the freedoms we enjoy in this country, then YOU move somewhere else. Trying to take those freedoms away from the rest of us, as you have done by your extremely ill-advised post, is unpatriotic and un-American. Didn't we already defeat you brownshirts in World War 2? For the love of God.

Jennifer Simpson ... pack your bags ...you're leaving this country!

The pledge is a prayer to the flag, a form of idolatry. It's not a patriotic gesture, but a substitute for true patriotism.

At first I was appalled that the site moderators did not remove the information provided by Jessica Simpson.

After thinking about it a little more I realized that it is probably a good thing they left it up.

Think about it for a minute!

Perhaps by her posting this information on the Common Dreams website this wonderful Mother and her son will receive thousands of congratulatory cards and letters from THINKING individuals.

If Jessica posted the information here, don't you think that the information has been posted on numerous RIGHT WING websites?

Let's show these nutcases that freedom of choice is indeed a value that we Americans cherish and support by sending a deluge of letters and cards of support to this mother and her son.

Here's the information again that Jessica posted
Kim M Dahl
915 Woodbridge Cir
Dilworth, MN 56529
The boys name is Brandt.

Come on people of judgment and caring, take 5 minutes to jot these folks a line of support, even if all you say is I support you and your decision.

You can be sure those people full of HATE will be sending out their letters.

Can't you take 5 minutes or less to refute them?

I'm writing mine as soon as I sign off.

If we MUST have a loyalty pledge (must we?), we should be pledging loyalty to our country and its principles, not its symbols and the religions of some of its citizens. A pledge of allegiance to the country and its principles should instead be recited as:

"I pledge allegiance to the republic of the United States of America, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

More to the point and easier to memorize. A patriot's loyalty is to a democratic USA, not to a piece of cloth or someone's religion.

The purpose is to make the individual subserviant to the state. There is more and more of this going on. The country is changing into a fascist state. This is not accidental, it is the mood that is developing in the US. There is an increase in patriotism, religiosity and the demand to conform. If the press no longer does its job it is because the reporters are too afraid of losing their jobs as they would ,and have ,for reporting the truth. We are well on our way to fascism. These kids are part of the little resistance that still exists. It is a shame adults don't have their courage or freedom of mind.

How shameful we have become.

Yeah you'd like your address posted on a public site. Sure you would.

So to jennifer and the other pretend 'innocent' who ... whatever they are... or whatever they call themselves.

If it is so innocent... why don't you post your addresses on the site?

Maybe YOU could receive a whole bunch of ... 'responses'? Call it support? Apparently you think the nut cases out there are fun... so have fun then.

Jennifer why don't you post your address?

Or would you end up feeling like you shouldn't have and want to move?

Yeah.

How shameful we have become.

I am sending this letter:
Saturday, May 10, 2008

Kim M Dahl & Brandt
915 Woodbridge Cir
Dilworth, MN 56529

Dear Kim & Brandt,

I am writing you in support of your exercising you Civil Rights as citizens of the United States of America by declining the invitation of the school to stand and recite the pledge of allegiance.

I am trusting that this letter is actually going to the people named. I got your address from someone who said her name was "Jennifer Simpson", writing on www.commondreams.org. She apparently does not believe in the principles of the United States and was soliciting people to write you to criticize Brandt's action and your support of him. I trust that you will be swamped with letters of support far in excess of those that defame you for your courageous action.

I am a U.S. Army Viet Nam Veteran, '68, and I absolutely believe in the premise of freedom of speech and being critical of the government, if you choose. I am also a pro-peace activist and do not agree with "our" invading other countries for any reason.

I wish you peace and harmony. Know that there are millions of people all over the world who support you and your right to speak your own truth.

Namaste,

Whoever Jennifer Simpson is, I hope she is proud of her "patriotism". I would guess that she will vote for McCain and trusts in a president who, himself, uses signing statements to negate his responsibility for any bill he signs. There are a lot of comments that this boy "should" follow the rules, even if they are wrong, and then his parents should take their concern up with the school board. yeah, right. That is working well in this country.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation

peace,
st john

In case anyone didn't see jennifer's real malevolent intent...

she just explained. She meant to do so.

Didn't she.

How shameful we indeed have become as Americans.

The only fear we need fear... is fear of our own freedoms.

They are eighth graders jennifer.

You shame us all as Americans.

For those upset that this information was given out over the internet. Apparently you aren't very websavy.

If anyone wants to find the information it is readily available by doing a people search of the person's name and state. Up comes the name and address's of people by that name in that state along with their phone numbers.
It isn't difficult. http://www.zabasearch.com/ is one of many out there that gives the information out free. Or you can just check the white pages of the town that was in the article.

If you want to make a difference, make sure you send a complimentary card or letter to counter the hate mail they will most certainly receive.

I've received my share for the letters to the editor I have written, along with death threats and death threats towards my family. Interestingly, those who send hate mail or death threats never include their address on the outside of the letters so it's usually easy to tell which ones are hate mail and which ones are positives.

Oh, and I also get hate and death threat phone calls.
Again, they don't give their names, shows how courageous they are.

lillulu May 10th, 2008 1:36 pm .. I applaud your rhetoric, but nothing will change without ACTION...even the smallest action can make a difference.

Well, I see that loony Jennifer got the information out about how one can find the address on the web before I did.

Again I say, spend a couple of minutes to send your support to these folks. they need it! I know I have greatly appreciated it when people have sent me or called me in support.

So, Jennifer, what is your city and state so we may look up your uh-dress? Or just make it easy and share it with us. I'm sure you would love to receive the kind of support you offer us, here.

Do you have sons and daughters you have offered to the fight for freedom and democracy? Or are you young enough that you could do the same? Perhaps you and/or your spouse/partner are in the military, protecting our right to stand on corners in protest and refuse to stand and recite the fascist pledge to God and country. You have not given us the privilege to contact your other than publicly here on commondreams. Oh well, you get to have your personal attacks viewed by thousands here on CD. Congratulations!

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

Readers of Common Dreams should question this despicable act by not only the jennifers but by the editors of CD as well.

This would seem to leave CD open to liability since CD does have monitors and this is the same thing as encouraging it.

If CD edits content ...please protect these people. They are children. This is sad.

Why help the jennifers try to hurt someone in any way CD? She only posted the address to have them be harassed.

Eighth graders CD? Ask your lawyers CD... since you have monitoring... why didn't you? Are your monitors only for political content?

They are eighth graders and their taking a position on ANYTHING... doesn't deserve this CD.

Dear editors of Common Dreams... you chill me.

Readers of Common Dreams should question this despicable act by not only the jennifers but by the editors of CD as well.

This would seem to leave CD open to liability since CD does have monitors and this is the same thing as encouraging it.

If CD edits content ...please protect these people. They are children. This is sad.

Why help the jennifers try to hurt someone in any way CD? She only posted the address to have them be harassed.

Eighth graders CD? Ask your lawyers CD... since you have monitoring... why didn't you? Are your monitors only for political content?

They are eighth graders and their taking a position on ANYTHING... doesn't deserve this CD.

Dear editors of Common Dreams... you chill me.

Peacekeeper, Keep your Cheesehead hat on. It's just opinions. And would anyone like his address in Kenosha?

My city and state is Las Vegas, NV for the one that asked. And like before, keep it clean!

Bugs take another pill. The last one has not kicked in yet.

JS

Willybill, you're right. Next time I will just sit and not do the pledge while others stand. After they get hysterical and have a mini-stroke about it, I'll just tell them I'm tired of being forced to do things I don't believe in -- and let the chips fall where they may. Enough is enough. I'm leaving this red state in a few months anyway.
:)

Here is the address of the school:
Dilworth-Glyndon-Felton Junior High School
Box 188
Dilworth, MN 56529
Clay County
PH: (218) 287-2371
FAX: (218) 287-2709

I just googled it from the story. http://www.greatschools.net/modperl/browse_school/mn/828
Lots of interesting stats on this site.
Perhaps we could support Jennifer by sending love letters to the "principal" about his patriotism in protecting us from ourselves...us Liberal Minded Fools, as Ms. Simpson so kindly labels us.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

lillulu May 10th, 2008 6:45 pm May I commend your courage! Thank you to the depth of my patriotic heart. THIS is what will change this regime! AND, MASSIVE numbers in DC. They can TAZE a few, but NOT MILLIONS!!

You do a cowardly despicable thing JS.

That's your state... and your address?

Innocently?

Listen the eds of CD already botched one post ...this double post was not my fault. Maybe the eds of Cd who apparently have taken saturdays off, are apologizing for losing my first comment to their lawyers by posting my second post two times?

Yeah... so?

JS ...This is shameful... they are our children.

if killing people is necessary to protect my 'freedom' i'd rather you (they, them, armed services) didn't...i have more respect for someone who chooses to join the peace corp than someone who chooses to join the marine corp...

good for the kids who refused to stand up for the pledge of submission...i hope if/when they go to court, they refuse to put their right hand on the bible too.

when i was in high school in the early 70's, i got kicked out of school for wearing 'the flag' on the ass of my jeans...i figured if johnson/nixon and friends could shit all over our flag, i should have no problem sitting on it...

i am in strong disagreement with jennifer or whatever his name is, but i'll leave it at that...

...jade

I just called and left a voicemail for the superintendent of the District of the school, letting him know I fully support the student and reminding him of the appropriate Supreme Court ruling in West Virginia vs. Barnette, which stated that it is 100% optional to not stand or recite the pledge of allegiance (notice I do not capitalize that).

I urge everyone else here to do the same. PH: (218) 287-2371

Ms. Simpson: you're a fascist. Go fuck yourself. If you idolize a flag, that's your problem. You are the furthest thing from a true patriot possible. You are, however, a good little German who undoubtedly worships the ground Dubya walks on, thinks our invasion of Iraq was a wonderful idea and probably doesn't have a clue that it was, by literal legal definition under the Geneva Conventions, the UN Charter, and the Nuremburg Charter, ILLEGAL. You are the problem with America, Jennifer: you confuse NATIONATLISM - a very bad thing - with PATRIOTISM - a very good thing.

For a real example of patriotism, read the posts on this site. Many of them are from veterans, who risked their lives for the Constitution of this country. That's right, Jennifer: the CONSTITUTION. Not the flag, or the pledge, or a lapel pin, or the moronic president - the Constitution, which is what they swore an oath to defend. Take your nationalistic fascist ass to China, where you won't ever have to worry about a citizen criticizing your beloved country. They lock em up for doing so, there. You'll be right at home.