.."the Constitution deserves a bit of loyalty"...
Well, only by those persons chosen or paid to enforce it's prescriptions.
As a body of laws written in order to limit the power of the United States over its sovereign citizens and/or over 13 or more "governments"...
What or how could the sovereign be sworn..
an obvious oxymoron.
For those persons who we request to "serve the Constitution", the words and meaning of that oath are the constraints and duty's they will bond their afterlife against..their precise job description.

One doesn't necessarily have to be educated in uses of ISP addresses, that is quite simple. Censoring and trapping email is a 1st and 4th Amendments issue.
They are a few loose cans of nutznboltz that post here that if not schizoaffective excessively prone to delusional psyops shit that I want them gone away and leaving me be.
It just pisses me off that some DumbF$$K is preventing my 1st.

If it is illegal for a child to enter into a legal contract then it should be illegal to demand a child to 'pledge allegiance' to any institution, public or private. There are similar controversies over the issue of child baptism, since a child can't even truly understand the concept of sin or redemption, and has yet to learn real regret.

As it stands, I disagree with the wording of the Pledge of Allegiance. Once I knew better (which, by the way, happened long after my school days and had nothing to do with the 'education' I received there concerning our history) I realized that the American Patriot's duty is to defend and uphold the principles contained in the Constitution, not to any flag. It certainly isn't loyalty to any political, religious or economic ideology, nor any person. No child in this day and age is capable of swearing such an oath.

This government certainly hasn't honored the spirit of Liberty and Justice, and definitely hasn't granted equal access to law since I've been alive - and there's a rumor that it never has. Talk to Native Americans and African Americans about it and see what answers you receive. Recently the Lakota people have formally seceded from the treaties held with the U.S. government because of its endless train of abuses and deprivations of the Souix peoples, in blatant disregard of treaty obligations for over a century. I do think the Constitution deserves a bit of loyalty, but I think that is an oath which should be made by a fully informed adult.

The system needs to change in a big way.......

Best to go along to get along….

Self-alienation - is a condition in which the individual is out of contact with his own needs, feelings, emotions, frustrations and longings, so that he is largely oblivious to his actual self and his life is the reflection of an unreal self, of a role he has adopted.

Best to go along to get along....isn't that the way of America today? Been there ......done that.

In other words these students wouldn't make it out in the real world, they would have been fired. They would have had to seek employment elsewhere. Perhaps, this is a good lesson perhaps they should seek their education elsewhere. Teachers will not stand for the influence these students amoung other students. These students will be most likely be ostracized when they go back to school. It is best they start looking elsewhere. Of course their reputation is now tarnished so it will not be easy......

This teacher is trying to teach what goes on in the real world. If you don't do what your employer tells you to do you are FIRED! It doesn't matter whether it is against your constitutional rights or not. You do what you are told to do. True freedom!

Actually, the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, Boston Baptist minister Francis Bellamy was a Christian Socialist and the pledge was meant to be a peace pledge recited by all people everywhere in the world. Bellamy also envisioned that all national flags would be bordered in white to symbolize the common desire for peace on earth.

the ONLY thing I remember from my high school Latin class is -- of all things --
the Pledge of Allegiance in Latin ! Same pledge as English, but for some reason we learned it in Latin

I have put it to good use ever since and recite it loudly whenever called upon to 'say the pledge'
(this used to cause my kids great embarrassment at school assemblies, etc. but they survived)

here it is for anyone who wants to learn it :

Fidem meam obligo, vexillo civitatum

Americae Foederatarum, et rae publicae

Pro qua stat, uni natione, deo ducente,

Ustitiaque omnibus

v is pronounced like w
c is always pronounced like k
ae is pronounced like ay
other than ae, pronounce all vowels distinctly (for example natione = nah-ti-oh-ney)
i is pronounced ee

that should be enough to get by on, when in Rome do as the Romans do !

USAn, certainly I stand by my words, but quite obviously there are many nutcases out there that would do harm to those who have differing views than they.

I write letters to the editor almost monthly and we are required to provide our name, address and phone number to the paper. Our name and town are always printed. No letter to the editor is accepted without the caveat that their name and town will be printed.

I happen to have a last name that no one else in our area has so it is quite easy to find our phone number and address. Because of that, as I stated, I have received numerous hate calls and mail, some even threatening my and my families lives. I live in a rural area and the city with the newspaper has a rather small circulation. If my name were available to the world what might I expect from people who have mental problems and decided to harm me or my family?

More than anything I was curious as to how someone might obtain the information that "Jessica" obtained without having access directly to the forum information. Since my name wasn't published I wasn't real concerned about some crazy having my state, but it was a concern as to who was monitoring this site.

Perhaps you do not care if the government performs constant surveillance on all you say and do, but I think we should care. We have certainly seen that the present government is not so concerned with truth as with the appearance of wrong and is willing to incarcerate and torture people for supposed crimes.

Since you are so content to have everyone in the world know who you are, why not publish your name, not USAn, phone number and address. Or even just your name, state and city, that way anyone who really wants to find you can do the people search and do so.

Incidentally, this is not a question of anonymity, it's a question of privacy and adhering to an agreement with subscribers. In any case, Peacemaker has pointed out that his state of residence was likely discovered from a post on another article in a different forum.

USAn May 11th, 2008 2:14 pm ......This is the agreement when one signs on to CD...Does any agreement mean anything any longer??.....Common Dreams Privacy Policy
(Adopted 1/15/2000)
Common Dreams respects the privacy of our members, supporters and all visitors to our web sites.

Information provided voluntarily by you will never be sold, rented, exchanged or otherwise disclosed to any other organization. Period.

E-mail is an exciting - and increasingly powerful - political organizing tool. Unfortunately, many for-profit, and even some non-profits, abuse e-mail recipients with a flood of unsolicited e-mails. They do not share our values -- and, we believe, do great harm to the potential of this new communication tool. We will never disrespect your time, attention, or privacy.

Peaceseeker and others,

The city, state/province, and country of your computer (or network router) can always be obtained from your IP address. The type of internet software you are using is also available once the IP address is known. So, the webmaster always has a pretty good idea approximately where you are, and some fora or web-boards automatically display this information.

go here: http://ip-address.domaintools.com/

However, your specific name and address is not available from the IP address alone. That information can only be provided by the ISP (internet service provider) under a warrant.

At any rate, this desire for internet anonymity among so many people never made sense to me. Do you stand by what you write or not? Would you have anonymity in a public meeting or such?

I just went on Amy Goodmans 8 May article, heavily moderated. I did something to the one awaiting moderation and it did something and got in. Haven't been on for weeks went back. trackingtransiences.net now is next for us.

I never recite 'one nation under God' in the pledge of allegiance. I always say 'one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all'! I am old enough I remember the pledge before the 'Great Communist witch hunt' took place. Before the religious nuts took the country over and had to control people's behavior. That is the way we were taught to say the pledge in school. So I will continue to say it that way until I am ashes. I don't believe we are 'under God'! So why should I say it. That's someone else's vision of this country...not mine! But, I always stand. I never bow my head when a prayer is said either. Because I no longer believe in it! But, I always watch all the other hypocrites around me paying homage to the great God of Christiandom!

"....Olson served in the Marines in Japan during the Vietnam War."

SO WHAT??? Is the article pointing out that he was complicit in war crimes and genocide in Vietnam?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Untidy Corporate States of America, and to the republican party, their wholly corporate-owned subsidiary, which by the way isn't all that different from the democratic party—ahem—one nation, under guard, with shibboleths and just us fat cats running the place for all.

It's a wonderfully adaptable statement. Let's expand our creativity. We're gonna need all we can muster and more.

Acemoab has a better understanding of the nature of the US than 99% of Americans. We need a lot more people like this before the US can have any hope of being a civilized nation.

The pledge, the flag, the lapel pins and the "God bless us and our freedoms"....all the trappings of a modern propagandist state.

The pledge itself has been corrupted to suit the needs of the few who really run the show in America, namely the addition of the phrase "under God" in the 1950's to differentiate one mass of people from the other mass of people - the so-called "godless commies" of the Soviet Union. When all else fails lets whip up the masses in a frenzy of patriotic zeal after which they will surely comply...."resistance is futile...you will be assimilated". Great Star Trek line :)

To each their own and my best to the students and their families, they are in for a rough ride.

I think I found out how "Jessica" came up with my state.

I did a search of my moniker and found where I had posted a comment on Topix forum. On that forum it listed my city and state as Kenosha, WI.

I don't happen to live in Kenosha, and am not sure why that city showed up. But apparently she/he did a search of my moniker and saw where I had posted the comment.

Apparently Jessica is obsessed with knowing everything she/he can know about people who disagree with him/her.

I think perhaps he/she has some real mental problems, or tooooooooo much time on his/her hands.

I live and teach in the right-wing capital of America where 90% of the people still support and salute Mr. Bush and listen daily to Rush L. Teachers who do not stand daily and recite are apt to experience severe discipline, especially if their principals are veterans of the desk-job variety. My solution is to stand and recite it more loudly than anyone, but I add the two words at the end when everyone else is silent: "I wish."

It's an effective bucket of cold water subversively dumped into the maelstrom of "patriotic" b.s. Hopefully it forces a flush in the minds of some of my students.

Doom said- "Principals come from jock stock. Do you really expect them to understand the meaning of Democracy. When the jocks stop controlling our schools, then schools will again be safe for our children."
Couldn't be said better- this is the absolute truth in my high school. Teachers who aren't coaches are not valued, students who aren't jocks aren't valued and jocks are allowed to harass and bully the rest of the students. I have been there 20+ years and it seems to be getting worse. Like a little Amerikan mirror of our current government.

HeHe
Long ago i joined the USArmy for two years, i volunteered for the draft after the Tet Mau Than, and we were marched off to Church on Sundays during AITraining.
Glory be, my friend from Allan Hancock was there! That black "military brat" and i never rose from our pew for this mandated worship again!
39 years later, all is vacant outside now, for this evening i listened to a big party a few houses a way, great music, a hundred youngsters.... Than comes 12 LAPD B-Ws, a Bell 206 helo circles above from 11:30 till 1AM with air bull horne, Cops push people around giving orders like everyones already under their command.. I step out onto the porch and start screaming (my many years in theater is useful) information into the slowly drifting melie: Cops, go home, you don't live here, you live 25-30 mile away. Don't tell us how to live, stop destroying lives, 2% in prisons, Ive had 25 guns in my street and driveway these last 20 years, all police guns, many pointed at me....
(I step back inside to read you guys, but the push is endless.. Back on the lawn, a young lady comes over to kabits, and the black uniforms finger point her away).. We are under martial law, that cop has a judge behind him, a dress code is in force, a curfew is in force, a rule against 2 or more persons is in force (a gang injunction to clean out the last of the vermin that rent these home, slowing the real estate takeover) These guys kill brown people, they burned three-fifths of the homes in Japan BEFORE the bomb....this is war on YOU, (To the many Latin cops-NO black cops under chief Braten in these black areas: push the black-brown distrust)... if your whiter than a paper bag, it will not save you...
(the B-Ws search lites are turned on me, the crazy white guy)..Come on in, i haven't locked the door in ten years...(exit center stage).

The helo stalls his blades to shake every window in this house on leaving, if he pulled them off, no auto rotation could save him.
Same old LA Saturday night for 20 years.
Wish me luck; guts come with community.

Samuel Johnson might have had the likes of Bush and the neo-cons in mind when he said in 1775, "patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels"

or maybe they just dont feel comfortable pledging alliegence to an institution that tortures people?

the whole pledge thingy seems sort of Nazi-ish..why not stiff armed salutes and a rendition of The Horst Wessel Song?

BEEKEEPER: Make a cape out of it and send it to a republicrat politician. You often see them wrapped in oil soaked flags.

acemoab May 10th, 2008 8:35 pm

ace... beautiful, absolutely beautiful. In a sea of banality a blazing pyre of passion!
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your words.
Thank you.
http://coldwarproductions.blogspot.com/2008/04/obscenity-of-free-market.html
http://hubpages.com/hub/INDOCTRI-NATIONFAIT-ACCOMPLI

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America and not the flag. What the hell does the flag have to do with it anyway? As an American citizen who loves American Ideals, I can pledge allegiance to the Bill of Rights and liberty and justice for all, but not the flag as it has nothing to do with our American government.

I taught 3rd grade for 15 years for Seattle Public Schools.

Washington state law requires that teachers start the day, each day, by reciting the Pledge of Allegiance with their class. What McCarthyite rubbish! In 15 years, I think I did it two or maybe three times for some stupid reasons.

The rest of the time I just said that it was "against my religion," which I thought was an appropriate dilemma to put the fascist assholes in if they wanted to argue.

Sometimes the kids would ask "Are you in the (dreaded) 'No Birthday Parties' religion?"

I am mostly atheist.

Peaceseeker67 May 10th, 2008 8:31 pm …..I, too, am very curious as to how JS knows your state .. and what else does he/she know? If you find out please let us know.

Standing for the flag and wearing lapel pins are a crock.

My grandaughter had been in kindergarten for just a few days when she came to my house and said, "Nana, listen!", and she recited the Pledge of Allegiance. She was so proud. I was just horrified! I mumbled, "That's very nice but we don't say that in this house", and left it at that.

I'd be very proud if Brandt was my grandson.

PS My grandaughter is a big girl now, 2nd grade, and plenty old enough to know how I feel about the pledge and why. :)

In the US

You are free,
If you agree,
With the powers that be.

Wasn't the major point of each of these student's civics lesson driven home?

In the US,

The major point of all our civics lessons was this nation stands for liberty and freedom...as long as you stand for the pledge of alliegance.

In fact, you can believe the US core values are liberty and freedom; you can't act on those beliefs if it inconveniences those in power.

It is confusing. Maybe that's why social sciences are slowly and quietly being removed from the public school curricula. Its not even worthy of being tested like read'n, rit', and 'rithmatic.

The flag is the symbol of the federal government; it is the US battle flag, draped over caskets trying to legitimate illegal wars of aggressions.

What is being demanded is submission to coercion; in making a binding promise uncritically to the power of the federal government.

Members of Congress take an oath.: 'I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;'……'

An oath to the 'defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic;' would be better, and raises the question of who the domestic enemies of the constitution are.

I have experienced many times that those who wear the flag, are hostile our constitutionally protections in the Bill of Rights.

Are they the domestic enemies of the constitution then? Is a congress that funds unconstitutional wars of aggression, domestic enemies?

Are Members of the US Armed Forces, in violation of their oath to 'protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic' by obeying unlawful orders?

These are questions everyone must answer, not only to themselves, but to everyone.

Is it constitutional persecute dissent?

Is sitting down, not symbolic free speech?

And is it true, is that a nation with liberty and justice for all?

Oh, you beautiful Dahl! 8)

chet: What's next? A few "Seig Heils" for your moronic Fuerher

Chet, you don't know your country's history. The Pledge of Allegience was invented by an American Baptist minister, Francis Bellamy, and it originally had two hand gestures. The first part, performed when children said "I pledge allegience --" is the familiar hand gesture of placing it over your heart. The second hand gesture, performed when children said "-- to the flag --" and extending all the way to the end of the pledge, is the seig heil pose in the direction of the flag. Try it! For some reason, early on the second pose was dropped from the Pledge. I wish Wikipedia had this tidbit of history, all properly researched. No, an unpleasant reality needs to be swept under the rug.

This article sums up America's "freedom": follow orders, or get punished.

While we're on the subject of loyalty and patriotism, can anybody tell what I'm supposed to do with the flag after I've used it to change the oil on my car?

Peaceseeker67 May 10th, 2008 8:31 pm ..... Your question about how JS obtained your state location etc. has stimulated my curiosity. Have you mentioned it on another site or in a comment on a different article? If not, something is amiss. Please keep us posted.

Jennifer Simpson, thanks for posting. The is most heat I have seen from this bunch in a while.
acemoab, hey, don't mince words, tell us how you feel.........

One evening in 1957, I was lying in bed innocently listening to my favorite radio personality, Joe Adamov, who hosted the long running show "Moscow Mailbag" on Radio Moscow (now The Voice of Russia). A letter from another young man, also from California like me, asked if Russian children laughed and sang. He laughingly answered that children everywhere, even in the German concentration camps, laughed and sang. Then he played a harmless song, then popular in the USSR, sung by happy children. At school the next day, my teacher actually said that Soviet children did not laugh or sing. I raised my hand and told her the truth, that they indeed did sing, and that I had heard it on the radio. I was severely punished, and subsequently refused to salute the flag. I was expelled, harassed, beaten, and degraded. I did not appreciate being lied to then, and do not appreciate it now. I did not realize that California educational propaganda policies prohibited the depiction in a textbook of a happy Russian child. I am proud to have NOT saluted the filthy stars-and-stripes death rag since that day. It is a symbol of hatred, racism, slavery, and war. If America were secure in its beliefs about itself, it would not be such a bully. Patriotism has become a sick cult, a fawning obedience to something its followers are desperate to justify, and in which they secretly do not believe. RIP America, it has not been nice knowing you. At least in America you can, like me, find a computer in a dumpster, repair it, hack into the internet, and spew offensive venom like this. You are fully entitled to die from simple infections if you are poor. You are also free to, in desperation, join the military and kill and maim for money and the thrill of it. If you are black, you have the right to be clubbed to death by the fascist police for no good reason. (I witnessed an innocent man being murdered this way and still have nightmares about it) The opportunities for advancement here are endless. All of you stupid Fox News-watching SUV-driving gas-heads have my permission to eat your money while waiting in the handbasket to hell. When your money is worthless and your poison gushing three tons of metal no longer moves by itself, we will be peers once again, and I will show even less mercy than in this gentle diatribe. Your cash assets pale in comparison to mine, for I have human assets, living breathing ones, and we will work together to destroy the hell on earth that you have built and reclaim what you have stolen from us. After this oil and greed based culture is gone, the REAL America will still be there, and hopefully it will be worth fighting for. What was that catchy phrase..."Don't Tread on Me?"

At first various friends in High School decided we did not want to be forced to say the words "Under God" in the Pledge so we kept silent during those words. Eventually as the idea caught on, there was a noticeable drop in volume for "Under God".

As we became aware of the somewhat secret Vietnam invasion, we did not want to say the Pledge at all or sing the ugly Star Spangled Banner. We did stand up and keep our mouths shut. The idea spread and after a while it was obvious from the volume that many were not participating.

It would be even cooler if students recited an alternate poem or sang an alternate song until so many were doing it that the original was drowned out.

I may be getting a little paranoid here, but I don't remember saying anything about my living in WI.

Did I?

If I didn't how the heck did "Jennifer" know I presently live in WI?

Is there someplace on this website that you can get that information?

If not, she/he must have some special way of tracking people. Perhaps via government snooping.

Like I said, I may be getting a little paranoid here.

I happen to be almost 60. Therefore I was in grade school in the 50's. I remember learning the pledge without the "under God" part of the pledge also and found it hard to insert those two words when they were added.

When I was about 7 or 8 I went home from school and told my Mother I wasn't going to say the pledge anymore because it went against what I was learning in Sunday School, where I learned that nothing should be above God and that we shouldn't put other gods before God. She said that I was wrong and that I had to keep saying the pledge.

I guess I was ahead of my time.

I only wish I had had a Mother who would have stood-up for me and told me I didn't have to say the pledge but that just didn't happen back then. At least not in my little town of 2,600 people with class sizes of 72 pupils.

"what a bunch of Liberal minded fools. My posting was for support as well as criticism…..it is our right. Just as it is her and her son's right not to stand or sing the Pledge. Read it again fools."

As a matter of fact, Jennifer, it's not your right. It's NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS. This incident is between this mother and her son and her son's school.

Stop policing one another over things that don't matter and start putting this kind of pressure on your elected representatives. Hello???????????

And that is why you think we came from monkeys, because you all act like animals!!!!!

**haha
thanks for the compliment.
When humans start behaving like other animals they will be more rational and less warlike.
And maybe they wills top locking up children for 24 years and raping 3 month old babies.
Even the most aggressive male lion or Grizzly doesnt do that.

BTW
For every soldier supposedly fightin' for our freedom there is a soldier on the other side fightin' against it, and vice versa.

Just because that information is in the white pages, doesn't mean it should be posted on-line.

I just called and left a voicemail for the superintendent of the District of the school, letting him know I fully support the student and reminding him of the appropriate Supreme Court ruling in West Virginia vs. Barnette, which stated that it is 100% optional to not stand or recite the pledge of allegiance (notice I do not capitalize that).

I urge everyone else here to do the same. PH: (218) 287-2371

Ms. Simpson: you're a fascist. Go fuck yourself. If you idolize a flag, that's your problem. You are the furthest thing from a true patriot possible. You are, however, a good little German who undoubtedly worships the ground Dubya walks on, thinks our invasion of Iraq was a wonderful idea and probably doesn't have a clue that it was, by literal legal definition under the Geneva Conventions, the UN Charter, and the Nuremburg Charter, ILLEGAL. You are the problem with America, Jennifer: you confuse NATIONATLISM - a very bad thing - with PATRIOTISM - a very good thing.

For a real example of patriotism, read the posts on this site. Many of them are from veterans, who risked their lives for the Constitution of this country. That's right, Jennifer: the CONSTITUTION. Not the flag, or the pledge, or a lapel pin, or the moronic president - the Constitution, which is what they swore an oath to defend. Take your nationalistic fascist ass to China, where you won't ever have to worry about a citizen criticizing your beloved country. They lock em up for doing so, there. You'll be right at home.

if killing people is necessary to protect my 'freedom' i'd rather you (they, them, armed services) didn't...i have more respect for someone who chooses to join the peace corp than someone who chooses to join the marine corp...

good for the kids who refused to stand up for the pledge of submission...i hope if/when they go to court, they refuse to put their right hand on the bible too.

when i was in high school in the early 70's, i got kicked out of school for wearing 'the flag' on the ass of my jeans...i figured if johnson/nixon and friends could shit all over our flag, i should have no problem sitting on it...

i am in strong disagreement with jennifer or whatever his name is, but i'll leave it at that...

...jade

Listen the eds of CD already botched one post ...this double post was not my fault. Maybe the eds of Cd who apparently have taken saturdays off, are apologizing for losing my first comment to their lawyers by posting my second post two times?

Yeah... so?

JS ...This is shameful... they are our children.

You do a cowardly despicable thing JS.

That's your state... and your address?

Innocently?

lillulu May 10th, 2008 6:45 pm May I commend your courage! Thank you to the depth of my patriotic heart. THIS is what will change this regime! AND, MASSIVE numbers in DC. They can TAZE a few, but NOT MILLIONS!!

Here is the address of the school:
Dilworth-Glyndon-Felton Junior High School
Box 188
Dilworth, MN 56529
Clay County
PH: (218) 287-2371
FAX: (218) 287-2709

I just googled it from the story. http://www.greatschools.net/modperl/browse_school/mn/828
Lots of interesting stats on this site.
Perhaps we could support Jennifer by sending love letters to the "principal" about his patriotism in protecting us from ourselves...us Liberal Minded Fools, as Ms. Simpson so kindly labels us.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

Willybill, you're right. Next time I will just sit and not do the pledge while others stand. After they get hysterical and have a mini-stroke about it, I'll just tell them I'm tired of being forced to do things I don't believe in -- and let the chips fall where they may. Enough is enough. I'm leaving this red state in a few months anyway.
:)

Peacekeeper, Keep your Cheesehead hat on. It's just opinions. And would anyone like his address in Kenosha?

My city and state is Las Vegas, NV for the one that asked. And like before, keep it clean!

Bugs take another pill. The last one has not kicked in yet.

JS

Readers of Common Dreams should question this despicable act by not only the jennifers but by the editors of CD as well.

This would seem to leave CD open to liability since CD does have monitors and this is the same thing as encouraging it.

If CD edits content ...please protect these people. They are children. This is sad.

Why help the jennifers try to hurt someone in any way CD? She only posted the address to have them be harassed.

Eighth graders CD? Ask your lawyers CD... since you have monitoring... why didn't you? Are your monitors only for political content?

They are eighth graders and their taking a position on ANYTHING... doesn't deserve this CD.

Dear editors of Common Dreams... you chill me.

Readers of Common Dreams should question this despicable act by not only the jennifers but by the editors of CD as well.

This would seem to leave CD open to liability since CD does have monitors and this is the same thing as encouraging it.

If CD edits content ...please protect these people. They are children. This is sad.

Why help the jennifers try to hurt someone in any way CD? She only posted the address to have them be harassed.

Eighth graders CD? Ask your lawyers CD... since you have monitoring... why didn't you? Are your monitors only for political content?

They are eighth graders and their taking a position on ANYTHING... doesn't deserve this CD.

Dear editors of Common Dreams... you chill me.

So, Jennifer, what is your city and state so we may look up your uh-dress? Or just make it easy and share it with us. I'm sure you would love to receive the kind of support you offer us, here.

Do you have sons and daughters you have offered to the fight for freedom and democracy? Or are you young enough that you could do the same? Perhaps you and/or your spouse/partner are in the military, protecting our right to stand on corners in protest and refuse to stand and recite the fascist pledge to God and country. You have not given us the privilege to contact your other than publicly here on commondreams. Oh well, you get to have your personal attacks viewed by thousands here on CD. Congratulations!

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

Well, I see that loony Jennifer got the information out about how one can find the address on the web before I did.

Again I say, spend a couple of minutes to send your support to these folks. they need it! I know I have greatly appreciated it when people have sent me or called me in support.

lillulu May 10th, 2008 1:36 pm .. I applaud your rhetoric, but nothing will change without ACTION...even the smallest action can make a difference.

For those upset that this information was given out over the internet. Apparently you aren't very websavy.

If anyone wants to find the information it is readily available by doing a people search of the person's name and state. Up comes the name and address's of people by that name in that state along with their phone numbers.
It isn't difficult. http://www.zabasearch.com/ is one of many out there that gives the information out free. Or you can just check the white pages of the town that was in the article.

If you want to make a difference, make sure you send a complimentary card or letter to counter the hate mail they will most certainly receive.

I've received my share for the letters to the editor I have written, along with death threats and death threats towards my family. Interestingly, those who send hate mail or death threats never include their address on the outside of the letters so it's usually easy to tell which ones are hate mail and which ones are positives.

Oh, and I also get hate and death threat phone calls.
Again, they don't give their names, shows how courageous they are.

In case anyone didn't see jennifer's real malevolent intent...

she just explained. She meant to do so.

Didn't she.

How shameful we indeed have become as Americans.

The only fear we need fear... is fear of our own freedoms.

They are eighth graders jennifer.

You shame us all as Americans.

I am sending this letter:
Saturday, May 10, 2008

Kim M Dahl & Brandt
915 Woodbridge Cir
Dilworth, MN 56529

Dear Kim & Brandt,

I am writing you in support of your exercising you Civil Rights as citizens of the United States of America by declining the invitation of the school to stand and recite the pledge of allegiance.

I am trusting that this letter is actually going to the people named. I got your address from someone who said her name was "Jennifer Simpson", writing on www.commondreams.org. She apparently does not believe in the principles of the United States and was soliciting people to write you to criticize Brandt's action and your support of him. I trust that you will be swamped with letters of support far in excess of those that defame you for your courageous action.

I am a U.S. Army Viet Nam Veteran, '68, and I absolutely believe in the premise of freedom of speech and being critical of the government, if you choose. I am also a pro-peace activist and do not agree with "our" invading other countries for any reason.

I wish you peace and harmony. Know that there are millions of people all over the world who support you and your right to speak your own truth.

Namaste,

Whoever Jennifer Simpson is, I hope she is proud of her "patriotism". I would guess that she will vote for McCain and trusts in a president who, himself, uses signing statements to negate his responsibility for any bill he signs. There are a lot of comments that this boy "should" follow the rules, even if they are wrong, and then his parents should take their concern up with the school board. yeah, right. That is working well in this country.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation

peace,
st john

How shameful we have become.

Yeah you'd like your address posted on a public site. Sure you would.

So to jennifer and the other pretend 'innocent' who ... whatever they are... or whatever they call themselves.

If it is so innocent... why don't you post your addresses on the site?

Maybe YOU could receive a whole bunch of ... 'responses'? Call it support? Apparently you think the nut cases out there are fun... so have fun then.

Jennifer why don't you post your address?

Or would you end up feeling like you shouldn't have and want to move?

Yeah.

How shameful we have become.

The purpose is to make the individual subserviant to the state. There is more and more of this going on. The country is changing into a fascist state. This is not accidental, it is the mood that is developing in the US. There is an increase in patriotism, religiosity and the demand to conform. If the press no longer does its job it is because the reporters are too afraid of losing their jobs as they would ,and have ,for reporting the truth. We are well on our way to fascism. These kids are part of the little resistance that still exists. It is a shame adults don't have their courage or freedom of mind.

If we MUST have a loyalty pledge (must we?), we should be pledging loyalty to our country and its principles, not its symbols and the religions of some of its citizens. A pledge of allegiance to the country and its principles should instead be recited as:

"I pledge allegiance to the republic of the United States of America, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

More to the point and easier to memorize. A patriot's loyalty is to a democratic USA, not to a piece of cloth or someone's religion.

At first I was appalled that the site moderators did not remove the information provided by Jessica Simpson.

After thinking about it a little more I realized that it is probably a good thing they left it up.

Think about it for a minute!

Perhaps by her posting this information on the Common Dreams website this wonderful Mother and her son will receive thousands of congratulatory cards and letters from THINKING individuals.

If Jessica posted the information here, don't you think that the information has been posted on numerous RIGHT WING websites?

Let's show these nutcases that freedom of choice is indeed a value that we Americans cherish and support by sending a deluge of letters and cards of support to this mother and her son.

Here's the information again that Jessica posted
Kim M Dahl
915 Woodbridge Cir
Dilworth, MN 56529
The boys name is Brandt.

Come on people of judgment and caring, take 5 minutes to jot these folks a line of support, even if all you say is I support you and your decision.

You can be sure those people full of HATE will be sending out their letters.

Can't you take 5 minutes or less to refute them?

I'm writing mine as soon as I sign off.

The pledge is a prayer to the flag, a form of idolatry. It's not a patriotic gesture, but a substitute for true patriotism.

Jennifer Simpson ... pack your bags ...you're leaving this country!

"jennifer simpson" said:
"You don't like the country move. If you don't like what Mrs Dahl said or her son said, mail a letter:
[Address omitted]
FYI: don't be rude or send hate mail. Tell them how you feel."

---

Jesus Christ, what a stupid thing to do. I encourage the site monitors to please remove "jennifer simpson"'s post. It's definitely harassment and possibly illegal to post someone else's home address without their consent for the express purpose of encouraging others to send them hate mail (despite "jennifer simpson"'s feeble protestations to the contrary).

"jennifer simpson," if you don't like the freedoms we enjoy in this country, then YOU move somewhere else. Trying to take those freedoms away from the rest of us, as you have done by your extremely ill-advised post, is unpatriotic and un-American. Didn't we already defeat you brownshirts in World War 2? For the love of God.

I have trouble with the mindless repetition of the Pledge, but this analysis perhaps is worth thinking about, especially if we take it to heart.
-------------------------------------------
I pledge allegiance to the flag... What is a flag? Webster's describes it as a piece of cloth or bunting with distinctive colors, patterns or symbolic devices used as a state symbol. In general it is an easily recognized symbol of a nation or group. Our flag has gone through many incarnations from the Grand Union flag of the revolution through an ever increasing number of stars as states were added to the Union. The flag of the United States, "Old Glory," has flown proudly as the ensign on ships protecting our shipping from both the British, and Barbary pirates, in the 1800''s, from the crest of Mt. Suribachi on Iwo Jima in World War II to the moon and beyond, as painted on Voyager, now on its way to the stars. Sadly, it has flown just as proudly at Wounded Knee, Manzanar, Mai Lai, Falluja and Guantanamo.

Of the United States of America... What is the United States of America? It is a vast country, bounded on the East and West by the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, by Canada to the North and Mexico to the South, not to mention Alaska and Hawaii beyond those boundaries. It is the home of diverse people and cultures and has every extreme of climate and geology.

And to the Republic for which it stands... What is a Republic? "It is a state or nation in which the supreme power rests in all the citizens entitled to vote (the electorate) and is exercised by representatives elected directly or indirectly by them and responsible to them."

What is it that makes our republic so unique in the annals of history? It is the three documents bequeathed to us by the founders of our nation, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States, and the first ten amendments to the Constitution, known as the Bill of Rights. The founders of this nation had had their fill of autocratic government, unresponsive to the needs and wishes of its citizens. The Declaration of Independence spelled out that every person had the inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Inalienable means that it cannot be taken away or abridged. It also declared that every man had the right to rebel against those rights being infringed. After a long and bitter campaign, the United States of America was born.

A Constitutional Convention was held in which the framework of government was hammered out When completed, it was a remarkably brief document consisting of seven articles which concisely spelled out the rights, privileges and obligations of all three branches of government and how each of the three should provide a system of checks and balances on the others so that no branch of the government could assume dictatorial power or infringe upon the rights of the people. Included was the process by which the Constitution could be amended.

When the Constitutional Convention had drafted the document, almost as an afterthought it was decided that there should be an enumeration of simple acknowledged principles of the rights of man. The list of an American citizen's rights was to be an absolute barrier to infringement by the government upon the citizenry. These were added as the first ten amendments to the Constitution and called the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights is the irrevocable law of the land, the nation's ultimate guarantee of human dignity for every American.

One Nation, under God, indivisible...The First Amendment declares the separation of church and state, but nowhere does it state that belief in a Supreme Being is something that cannot be professed publicly or shown in public places. Neither does it ban prayer in public. Rather, the separation of church and state was to guard against the growth of any sort of ruling theocracy such as had been seen throughout much of human history, where the church ruled and dictated human behavior according to its particular beliefs. Indivisible because since the civil war, we have hung together as one nation despite our differences.

With Liberty and Justice for all. Those ten amendments are that guarantee. (In actuality, if you read it carefully, the Bill of Rights does not guarantee these rights, it forbids the government to interfere with them)They cannot be abridged regardless of expediency. Nowhere else in the world does a citizen enjoy the enumerated rights and benefits guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. The President takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, as do the Senate and the House. The Supreme Court is to enforce those Constitutional guarantees and see that neither of the other two branches of government violates or tries to set aside those rights. It is the duty of every citizen to see that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is protected. Without them, the United States of America is nothing special, just another big country ruling its people any way it sees fit. And the people become no more than servants of the state.
-------------------------------------------
SO, I think it is up to We the People to enforce the above as the three branches that were supposed to have chosen to emulate a number of the dictatorial powers that our nation, along with much of the rest of the world, once fought and bled to defeat.

The educational system in the U.S. has never learned how to teach the spiritual dynamics of Democracy, the competitive synthesis for truth, and neither have our churches.

You don't like the country move. If you don't like what Mrs Dahl said or her son said, mail a letter:
FYI: don't be rude or send hate mail. Tell them how you feel.

JS

Ummmm Jennifer Simpson -- I have a major problem with you posting someone else's private information on the net without their permission and inviting whomever to write to them. It's a VIOLATION OF PRIVACY and it's called HARASSMENT.

I should because THE LEADERSHIP of my country is wrong? Not likely.

• How about this: the kids stand, but when the pledge is finished they get to shout: "Bong hits 4 Jesus!"

• The trappings of jingoism under discussion-- anthems, flags, behavior and etiquette-- doubtless arose in part from a simple desire and satisfaction in expressing national pride. This is pretty much the stuff of cheerleaders, pep squads, boosters-- to be taken or left alone in accordance with individual values and sensibilities.

But over time, the symbols are manipulated by the elite in power, and are invested with an irrational mythic significance. Perhaps "encumbered" is more accurate. And all of this Yankee Doodle Dandy frou-frou becomes solemn articles of faith in their own right, to the point where participation isn't optional.

Too lazy to Google the specifics, but IIRC, George Steinbrenner ordered concession stands at Yankee Stadium to close during the seventh inning stretch, because he was irritated that hordes of fans would leave their seats during the singing of "God Bless America". What was wrong with them?

I worked in public schools for 30 years and yes, there is an unlimited supply of jock stock to administer public schools. As a rule, if they are not downright stupid, racist, ass kissers, they are barely a cut above that crowd.

The principal in question is probably about par for the course. He just got caught. He probably got chewed out not for what he did, but for being the cause of bad press for the district.

This whole pledge of allegiance (to a colored piece of cloth) is FASCIST RUBBISH; plain and simple. And this isn't hyperbole. No genuine democracy in the entire world even has such a pledge-to-a-flag.

Principals come from jock stock. Do you really expect them to understand the meaning of Democracy. When the jocks stop controlling our schools, then schools will again be safe for our children.

Please. Iraq was no threat whatsoever to our freedoms. Never had been and never will be. We're there so that Bush and all his rich buddies can get richer on our tax money while our "free" nation goes down the toilet.

The way we've been treating the rest of the world for the last 30 yrs. certainly wouldn't want to make me stand up and recite anything pro America.

As Jefferson does another roll-over in his grave...

jennifer simpson:

would they like to hear from us folks that support their actions as well?

Okay, so what's the "punishment" for those who proudly recite the Pledge of Allegiance and then immediately violate said Pledge by, oh, let's say illegally invading a pair of soverign nations, murdering and maiming millions of innocents, US soldiers and citizen private contractors, torture at will, illegally spy on Americans for eight years, and rape our Treasury?

Answer: Medals of Freedom.

The Pledge of Allegiance (note the capital letters), saluting the flag, the wearing of lapel pins...

What's next? A few "Seig Heils" for your moronic Fuerher

Apart from North Korea, the US is the only country in the world that requires such faux rituals.

I live in red, Republican Alaska. I went to a nonpolitical meeting recently, and at the start of the meeting we were required to stand up and salute the flag. After having to do it for 13 years (counting kindergarten), I had had enough, but I didn't want to be carted away to jail or humiliated and kicked out of the meeting, so I obliged.

I think I'd feel more like doing the pledge if we had honest elections and if I had proof that my vote was actually counted. I'd also feel more enthusiastic about the pledge if my tax money wasn't spent on the military-industrial complex for war profiteering for the super rich while killing innocent people in the process. I don't "hate America," by the way. I hate the fact that it's run by a bunch of war criminals and thugs in expensive business suits (paid for by us taxpayers).

"The function of a citizen and a soldier are inseparable."

"It is the State which educates its citizens in civic virtue, gives them a consciousness of their mission and welds them into unity."

"The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fascism the State is absolute, individuals and groups relative."

Benito Mussolini

Add me to the list of veterans who have a hard time with this compulsory allegiance. I have very mixed feelings when I look at the American flag. For those of us who've stood on foreign soil, heard the Star Spangle Banner played as the colors were raised, the memories take on a special significance. But now I just wonder where it is all heading.

A vet friend of mine recently made that familiar quip about loving his country, but fearing the government. Perhaps that's the distinction.

While I completely support the clear separation of church and state, which has become one of the cruelest jokes in this country of late, I will say that both - our faith in religious and patriotic terms - are individual matters, which we should be free to decide and embrace as we choose.

I lost my faith in religion many years ago . . . and now, with all that has happened over the last seven or so years, my patriotic faith has been shaken to its very core.

I applaud and second st john's commitment to Oneness through Justice and Transformation.

Peace to you, and all, brother.
Tennegon

"He said he backs the punishment, "being a veteran and a United States of America citizen, absolutely." Olson served in the Marines in Japan during the Vietnam War."

It would seem that Mr. Olson has forgotten the oath that he took in order to become a Marine.

Not much fighting going on in Japan during the Vietnam war.

Oh, great, another principal who doesn't read the applicable Supreme Court ruling on this. West Virginia v. Barnette. They can't even make you stand. You don't even have to acknowledge the activity, just be quiet and allow others to make their religious oath (which is what the Pledge really is).

Here's your homework, principal:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=319&invol=624

Not to impugn educators...but I keep hearing more and more stories like this one.
Seems like the educators need some education...or deprogramming

I don't stand for the ..."O SAY CAN YOU SEE..." and I'm old enough to remember WW II

I applaud these kids. These are the ones who will also refuse to wear flag pins when they become mandatory dress along with our brown shirts and iron heels.
Hoa binh

I am also a U.S. citizen, not by choice, but by birth. I also am a VietNam Vet, 1968, and I refuse to sing the national anthem or recite "The Pledge". As an "adult" I don't have that many occasions to stand and deliver, but when I do, I don't. I was in grammar(do they still teach grammar? Not by what I often see in blog posts)school when they added under God, and I have never recited that. My father, who was a Federal employee and had never served in the military for legitimate reasons(he tried, but was refused)was angered at the addition of this phrase, even though we believed in God and we went to church every Sunday. He supported us in not saying the phrase. He was a staunch supporter of the separation of church and state. I don't get the meaning of "...if it weren't for the people (soldiers) fighting over there (Iraq, Afghanistsan), we would not have the freedom to stand on a corner and voice our opposition to the war." That seems to be the whole point. Because some are fighting, we have that right, so what is the point of punishing someone for exercising that right? If someone is standing on the corner in the U.S.A. protesting some action or policy of the government, they are exercising the freedoms for which the military is supposedly in place to defend. I personally don't believe in the use of force and violence to "defend" a free and peaceful society, but that is a whole other discussion.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john