WTF - Starship troopers. What was most interesting about that film was the profound difference between Heinlein's book and the film. Other than in name, they are almost unrecognizable.

All TV is mind control. All TV is a waste...what is wasting? YOU ARE. It is a form of induced lethargy.

I love hearing my children talk about the inane things that they think they are 'learning' from the TV. I have come to the conclusion that there is very little of real educational value even on the 'educational' channels.

While a show like "Holmes on Homes" may be usefule to someone in the construction trade or to someone looking at hiring a contractor, most of the viewers take nothing more away from it than they do watching an episode of "what not to wear".

Then that is not the end of it...what do people talk about all day? TV. The local radio morning shows all have significant segments dedicated to discussing the previous night's TV programs! The best thing they can do on the radio is talk about TV?

Inane. It is all inane. One word to define our current society..."inane".

P.S. Richard Dawkin;s "The God Delusion" is an excellent antidote to much of the irrational hobgoblin floating about in the U.S. today. If the left is going to regain ascendancy we will have to run a tight rational reality based ship IMO. Remember it was people who proudly bragged about not being in the reality based community. And IMO so called "reality" t.v. which is all staged is the very opposite of rational empiricism to get back on topic.

Hmmm... Siouxerose you aren't going to like this probably but I am a 100% secular rationalist who is concerned that the beautiful lessons of the enlightenment are being dimmed by a flood irrationalism in society. So I sincerely hope that you do not try to force "spiritual truths" (which in my opinion don't exist) on your daughter if she is not receptive to that line of thinking. IMO the best way to debunk the brain washing techniques I discussed above is to increase rational skeptical inquiry into the techniques used by "reality" tee vee, charlatan preachers and yes encounter group leaders. I do think you have made many intelligent and thought provoking responses on CD and I am curious to see what your response to this will be.

Note also I am secular rationalist who writes poetry, gardens, listens to a LOT of music, and enjoys long meditative walks in the woods, I simply don't believe a belief in gods, goddesses, or other ghosts of the mind adds anything to these experiences. Again feel free to differ. :)

Maplefudge:

Sorry, but G.W.B.'s Mother won that contest!

HOOT OWL: Fascinating elaboration. Interesting segue, too in that I just got a newsletter from a female acquaintence who takes people off the Florida Keys for dolphin encounters. She's sponsoring a rather expensive intensive which follows the script of your posting (1:26 AM) inviting people to return to the "wounded child" and no doubt bare their souls.

In contrast, my best friend Leslie who never went to college is by NATURE a human psychologist and seems to get a beat on what motivates a person (and I mean to the depths) from observing them. Her take is that a lot of psychology--getting people to endlessly focus on their pasts--is counter productive. That we all have to own what happened, make the journey to forgiveness in order to MOVE on and be PRESENT to the NOW part of our lives. One of my daughters is very resistant to spiritual truth and it's painful to see her seek answers in the media for what can be better discovered Mother's comprehensive book shelves.

These are the service based jobs the free trade/economic freidmanites wish for American workers. Pure vulgarity disguised as entertainment and the only way for lots of American potential workers to make more money than working as a retail clerk at some big box store filled with crap from 3rd world labor camps.

Sorry, not Storm Troopers, but Starship Troopers. A little faux pas there, not entirely undeserving.

ken nuti wrote: wouldn't you say that some sci-fi is worthwhile?

I am a sci-fi nut too, and watch rented movies. But there is a strong sense of mind control in sci-fi movies too. Consider the "good vs evil" analogies in Star Wars, the fervent celebration of facism in Storm Troopers, xenophobia in The Man Who Fell to Earth, Blade Runner and myriad other films. Sci-fi writers spend much time warning us of the future, but more often Hollywood glorifies the future.

Here is another way of putting it, tee vee excels at portraying drama and that sucks people in... People who spend large hours of their lives watching quick cut drama and prioritizing feelings over rationality will quite literally be incapable of creating a counter narrative and resistance to our increasingly authoritarian culture. Minds flooded with emotion and short attention spans does not a population capable of disciplined revolt make.

The oligarchy gets a two-fer not only do they brainwash people into buying cheap Chinese slave labor made products from outsourced factories thus lining their pockets while destroying a well fed well housed working class, they also produce a population incapable of even conceptualizing rebellion. Orwell called it prole-feed in 1984.

Great picture of a tee-vee BTW, it would have been even better with bullet holes in it... ducks. :)

Siouxerose said:

"they all seem to be breaking down the walls of civility as well as the notion of privacy."

Excellent point in fact that is a classic brainwashing technique cults use which is to break down a persons personality by making people feel raw, vulnerable and afraid and replacing your personality with their ideology. it seems the big Christian mega Churches are using this technique now see this article:

http://www.alternet.org/rights/84043/

"The program revolved around a theory that Fortenberry quickly introduced us to called "the wound." The wound theory was a piece of schlock biblical Freudianism in which everyone had one traumatic event from their childhood that had left a wound. The wound necessarily had been inflicted by another person, and bitterness toward that person had corrupted our spirits and alienated us from God. Here at the retreat we would identify this wound and learn to confront and forgive our transgressors, a process that would leave us cleansed of bitterness and hatred and free to receive the full benefits of Christ.

In the context of the wound theory, Fortenberry's tale suddenly made more sense. Being taken on that eighteen-hole golf trip with the barmaid, and watching his family ditched by Dad, had been his wound. It was a wound, Fortenberry explained, because his father's abandonment had crushed his "normal."

"And I was wounded," he whispered dramatically. "My dad had ruined my normal!"

The crowd murmured affirmatively, apparently knowing what it was to have a crushed normal.

*******

So it began. Our meetings were a prolonged, cyclical course of group-directed confession and healing that began on Friday evening and continued almost without interruption through Sunday afternoon. The basic gist of our group exercises was this: We were each supposed to reveal to one another what our great childhood wounds were, then write a series of essays and letters on the wound theme, taking time after the writing of each to read our work aloud. The written assignments began with an autobiography, then moved on to a letter written to our "offenders" (i.e., those who had caused our wounds), then a letter written to Jesus confessing our failure to forgive our tormentors."

Sadly I think many of these techniques are copped from human potential movement/encounter groups from the 60s. The raw outpourings those groups encouraged seemed to break peoples personalities down and I think the right wing oligarchy was in the background taking notes. Although I disagree with Coulson religious perspective I think his observations of the time he was part of the human potential movement and the damage it caused is fascinating:

"It's what I mean by the emptying of heads. A student of Immaculate Heart College wrote that

The whole idea of sensitivity groups sounded beautiful to me, both when reading Dr. Rogers' paper on self-directed change and at the talk today. However, in actual practice, something doesn't seem to be quite right about it. A lot of times I've heard that faculty felt they were being forced in these groups to say things they didn't want to say; I myself feel very uncomfortable about being shut in with people who break down and say things I feel I shouldn't have heard. I think it creates a kind of embarrassment, which would seem to be a hindrance in relationships rather than a help. Still, I do feel that I gained a lot of insight into other people's behavior (pp. 55-56).

Another student wrote that "I felt at a loss today in that encounter group: very naked, as though everyone knows too much about me" (p. 59).

A third student wrote, "I think you've got a goodly dangerous thing going and it is very necessary. It's like taking the risk of being ripped up in order to grow. I cannot foresee the end results. I think it is more important that there is life in the 'Now.' I want to thank you" (p. 57)."

*******

Members of the class that had created Kresge sat in a wide circle on the wooden floors, some wearing sandals and others in blue jeans, formal gowns, or jackets and ties. Their parents and friends sat ringed about them in chairs. [Professor] Michael Kahn stepped forth in a crimson Harvard gown bearing a large seashell in his hands as though it were a holy vessel. Coming into the circle, Kahn explained that the nautilus was a creature that lived in the depths. Now holding the shell at eye level, he passed slowly before them. Anyone wishing to speak about something "deep down" would hold the shell while they spoke. [An] Asian student reached for it and went to the center of the circle with four other students. They hugged and kissed each other and then sat down again. A girl in tangerine slacks held the shell, tried to speak, could not, cried, said thank you, cried again, and sat down. One or two others held the shell silently. A boy cried and said he was sad that he would not see his friends for a long time. A heavy girl wearing a patchwork denim skirt spoke somewhat giddily, saying she was "not much into academics" ([followed by] long laughter from students). Then she leaned her head back, let loose with an ear splitting scream, shaking her arms and body as though possessed and then sat down. After a pause, students applauded her, followed more hesitantly by parents, unsure as we were whether she was parodying the college or was an expression of it. No honors were distributed; there was no valedictory; no students were singled out for achievements. Pondering this on the way out, we recalled our interview with Gregory Bateson. In his view, at Santa Cruz in general and Kresge particularly, students tended to be uninterested in striving for honors or in getting ahead. Not many in his large course on the ecology of mind were engaged with ideas. Papers done in the course were generally deplorable. It was hard to get students to take seriously what was being said or for them to take themselves seriously when writing something. It was an amiable life at Kresge. It was pleasant. It was kindly. Students spoke a "horrible touchy-feely jargon," Bateson said, but in actual behavior they were unusually kind, but that didn't help you learn very much in Latin grammar or any other serious subject."

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ACADEMIC/FULLHEAR.htm

My opinion is, is that the corporate right wing has deliberately appropriated these relatively powerful brainwashing techniques to as you put it "break down the walls of civility and privacy" to make us all easier control when the global oligarchs imposes a clampdown when we get a great scarcity of resources. Sorry for the long post but I thought you brought up a really important point and I wanted to expand on it, thanks!!!!!

Here in Vietnam (and all across Vietnam) the first thing people want after they get electricity is a light bulb. The second thing is a TV. Its everywhere, its on, and people are glued to it. The gov't loves it. In April a VNese gov't-owned satellite (Vinasat 1 - built by Lockheed Martin) was launched to be able to reach out to more of the 50% of the population that makes $2.00/day or less. Every TV channel here is gov't owned and run. It creates public opinion, anesthetizes brains and keeps people docile.

There is quite a bit of illiteracy, information from outside is non-existant outside the biggest cities (for that tiny percent of the population that can get - and afford - cable TV or speak a foreign language) and education is horrible.

US people elected Bush (twice!), are sucking-up their imported cocaine, and have the potential to do pretty much anything they want. Ouch.

[By the way, a large percent of the capacity of Vinasat 1 is earmarked for Vietnamese 'security' and military use. Thank you Lockheed Martin - you whore.]

Just this morning I saw an ad for the Tila Tequila "Shot of Love" show ... a brief clip of her gleefully announcing to her female contestants that they will be eating "pig vaginas".

If people want to be hos, there's little we can do to stop them.

Maybe the producers of 'Hurl' and its ilk may actually be extremely philanthropic with the long-term goal of deliberately engineering a reality TV backlash. {;o)

Ken Nuti
Medford, MA

Reality? Here's alittle. GS ( Goldman Sachs) perdicts $150.00 to $200.00 a barrel oil within the next 6 to 24 months.
The world is changing ripidly, right before our eyes, and the people who come up with shows and the people who watch them, don't seem to have a clue.

Example: I recently asked a woman I work with, what she thought of the subprime crisis. Her reply, and I am not kidding, was, "What is subprime?"

Read this article: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19888.htm

Nope.

Didn't the Ancient Romans have the huge parties where the guests would gorge themselves on rare foodstuffs, consuming massive quantities of alcohol, and abuse the servants, and then go to a specifically designed room called a 'purgatorium' to vomit, then go back to gorging themselves again and again, repeating the process?

Is this proposed TV excess really any different?

Is the fall of our modern Rome really that far away?

How about a show that takes rich people and put them in poor people shoes. It would also spin off and have another one where 99 percent of americkan are thrown into a poorer country. Yeah lets see how many will be able to walk miles on end to get just water.

We need a show called "America's Nicest Family." Mom, Dad, Bubba, and Sister would get farmed out to various strangers' homes, and the host families would videotape their interactions with the new additions to their households. Audience would vote on the nicest family.

We can have dried seaweed ~Rebel Farmer~. The depresion is a-commin and TV will be history, along with everything else.

Wealthy Romans had "vomitariums" where guests at lavish banquets could empty their stomach of the first fill up so they could eat some more. This isn't quite as classy, but we haven't been part of an empire as long as the Romans.

What I want to know is: How do you folks even know about these weird programs? I haven't killed my TV yet, but throughout my life, I was too poor to fix/replace the stupid thing when it broke. Which was a frequent event because we could only afford old used ones. Not to mention the fact that cable was never in the budget. I guess I was lucky. Never got addicted.

The web is cool because it is interactive. Not like TV where you sit as a sponge/bystander. I just don't have the patience anymore. Not even for the news. But, of course, now I have to deal with this damn "surfing" addiction.

I really agree with the statement about the bread and circuses thing. Only we are not going to be able to buy the bread much longer.

If anything proves America's days are numbered, reality TV is that thing. Or rather . . . the fact that millions watch these stupid shows and WANT themselves to be distracted.

And WTF - thank you for the pic! That was awesome.

I've learned a lot of cool stuff from TV, such as why Prague has underground tunnels and why Texas has sinkholes (apparently not because of Bush).

RALPH: I know a very successful capitalist (and boy is he one!) who said long ago, "Americans love scores." At the time he asked me to cultivate an astrological compatibility analysis that utilized a number of scoring mechanisms (i.e. sexual compatibility, financial compatibility, spiritual affinity, etc.)

KELMER: When I think of shows like Survivor, and Cops and the inane "Dawg, the Bounty Hunter" on of all channels "Arts and Entertainment," they all seem to be breaking down the walls of civility as well as the notion of privacy. In my view, these types of programs are a cultural form of anesthesia, that the patient (American public) not realize the PAIN of what's being done to him/her. By pain I mean the devastation of our nation, the loss of any semblance of its being a sane, humane society.

Can we raise money to have OXFAM put one of their 'starving children with flies on their faces' ads on during HURL? Just to let it go all the way. But seriously kids, television is an open sewer gushing into your living room. It's worse than cocaine. It's worse than porn. It's worse than socks with sandals. Give it up a bit at a time. But give it up.

Want to watch some real truths, and some real servivors ?
Some real heros that are making a difference again, in the lives of all who care to watch and learn. Want to know who our real enemies are ?? It isn't whom you have been force fed lies about. This is even more screy and will even make you more sick, or better yet, MAD like me , and determined to do something to wake others up.

"Loss of the Liberty "
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/18.html
The Israeli Attack on the USS Liberty

Even our news programs make me sick.

This weekend, the US Postal Service is asking us to put bags of non-perishable food out for the hungry. A TV show like "Hurl" is absolutely disgusting and as far as I am concerned a sin. It is as awful as car racing as a sport in a time of global warming and energy price hikes.

That is precicely the point ~FRANK~, evidently a goodly number of Americans do want to watch such crap. ___Why?

Do we deserve to survive as a great nation? As someone else also noted and asked. Why do we wish to kill our only home, Earth?

Like everything else, so-called adults have a choice:

If they choose to watch crap, crap will be produced. For example, think "Saw." Not a "movie," but simply torture-tainment porn. Parts 1, 2, 3, and 4 have already grossed over $500 million.

Guess what? Parts 5 and 6 are already finished. Of course, if Americans chose not to see Saw, then there would never have been Parts 2,3,4,5, and 6.

Paris would be a nobody if nobody watched, but they do, in droves. Wal Mart would go away if nobody shopped there, but they do, and they're still #1. SUVs would have died a long time ago if nobody bought them, but they did and do (and will again as soon as gas prices come down.)

The problem IS NOT "Survivor" or "Hurl" or "Hostel" or "Prom Night" or "Girls Gone Wild" or "Grand Theft Auto" or McDonald's. The problem is that "we" continue to willingly pay for more and more total crap.

WTF, is that going a little too far? "Reality" programming is clearly intended for the dumbed-down set, but wouldn't you say that some sci-fi is worthwhile?

I'm an unabashed sci-fi geek and therefore biased, but many will agree that this is a genre in which skilled writers have successfully encrypted important lessons for critical thinkers and others. Like you and I as we share our thoughts here, these writers and producers have engaged a larger venue and many have laudable goals beyond just making a quick buck.

Thanks to WTF--my sentiments exactly. Why are you watching TV in the first place? Next February all non-HD TV's will automatically be rendered obsolete. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we just left them that way as something to collect dust in our homes? A reminder of all that is wrong with our culture and civilization.

I used to say people will put a "bone in their nose for fashion" but it has no meaning any more because people actually are putting a bone in their nose for fashion, or a monkey-wrench, or a _____ (fill in the blank).

The real question is why are americans so incredibly competitive? Increasingly the competitive edginess of our society is being ratcheted up where it is now parallels video game warp speed. Everything is now ranked and rated. There are numerical top lists everywhere. The top 10 of this, the top 50 of that, the top 100 of whatever. On yesterdays news I saw some medical researcher enthusiastically describing all the hundreds of thousands of genetic computations and tests that can (and will) be done on individuals to find any hidden shadow flaw they might possess. So we will be able to create a whole new underworld of genetic untouchables which will be required info on their passports and their "matchfuck.com" web sites.

Eventually there will be a universal database in which everyone of the 6.5 billion (more like 10 billion in the near future) humanoids will be ranked and rated in a complex hierarchy of wealth, beauty, health, intelligence, social standing, political and religious correctness, and countless other subsets.

Programs like "Survivor" which are all based on competition are counter intuitive because what is primarily needed to survival is cooperation not competition.

Why is competition become so paramount. My take on it is that although there is a certain amount of inbreed competitiveness in humans there is at once and even greater urge for cooperation. The hyper-competitive, (who really are a small component of the greater society) seek to exaggerate this urge for their own advancement and recognition. The more people who play the game the greater the rewards for the elite winners.

This type of hierarchal competitiveness is what produce kings, potentates, rajas, czars, multi billionaires, popes, brahmins, and CEO's that make 400 times their average workers wage (is anyone 400 times more intelligent? Do they work 400 times harder?) ..... etc. etc.

Maybe a variation of the old Timothy Leary six word philosophy would be appropriate:
"tune in" - "turn down" and "drop out" ....or rather drop in with like minded change the world cooperational people's who what to "cultivate their gardens of life."

"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public" HL Mencken...SOme things never change...stupid AMericans is one of them

ALL TV shows make you sick. TV reinforces feelings of inadequacy, triggers consumer impulses, provides constant misinformation, distracts from important issues, contributes to obesity, and imposes mind control.

This whole scenario is like the plot of Running Man, where Arnold Schwarzenegger is indicted for a crime he tried to prevent (gunning down civilians at a food riot in the near fascist future) and sent off to a reality game show to kill or be killed by outrageous array of world wrestling stand ins (including Jesse Ventura!)

Meanwhile the People's Network is trying to jack the transmission of the US military-industrial-entertainment complex to broadcast the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-cL5FEdDfo

WHY are so many humans obsessively compulsive to kill this beautiful planet?

2 of the biggest BS shows are House and Greys Anatomy. A ton of test and meds and you never see a bill or health card. I know the show must be shot in Canada. If so then it is 100% believable

It is America all the way. People starving in the steets of every city and a show where if you over eat and keep it down you win. I honestly feel this is the last throngs of America.
As for the survivor I know a person who watched the whole show being shot while on vacation in Auz. They said there is a line of trailers off camera the contestants go in wash, change and eat and sleep. No person without some training on how to live off the land would last but a couple weeks. Some of the people on the show have never even been on a farm or camping. Just another BS American show.

Makes me feel proud to be an American!

How 'bout CELEBRITY TURD-LENGTH CHALLENGE ?

Sounds like the brother to "SumoHurl" the new Japanese reality show.

Kidding, but it does a sadistic Japanese game show feel to it.

Hey, that's a show I'd like to vote for!
'Draft' that's perfect, and the theme song is just ideal. You could also let some of the rich buy their way out of going on the show, maybe you'd be able to avoid going broke if you set the 'graft' high enough.

How about a show called "Draft," where random members of the young male (and female-equal rights and all that) demographic are snatched off the street, inducted into the military and sent to defend the far reaches of the empire? The theme song could be the Dead Kennedys' "Holiday in Cambodia." I've got a list of people they could start with - Paris Hilton, Brittany Spears, anyone marketed to the 'tween demographic . . .

How about a show called "gore" where young co-eds viciously attack young studio executives who create reality shows. I'm sure many young men, especially lower income males in the rural areas, would appreciate seeing young yuppies getting their ears chewed off by hot chicks and testosterone-laden fame grabbers.

disgustingly sick.................

It started with Survivor.
A show where people go to an island and kill local wildlife just to pretend they are roughing it in a hunter gatherer mode.

Peta protested it.
No one cared.

From there it went on and on.

Bush was the perfect president for vulgar times.

He's the Jackass contestant as president.

It would be a good show if the losers would "hurl" on George Bush or any other D.C. political whore.
Hoa binh