It was a slow news day, what with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright temporarily off the front page and the fifth anniversary of President Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” appearance aboard an aircraft carrier having just passed. Still, the headline caught the eye: “More signs the world isn’t ending.”
It was the tease into a CNNMoney.com article about how some people are parsing the dismal economic numbers and concluding — as Wall Street analysts tend to conclude, even as Main Street is reeling — that things aren’t as bad as they seem. Sure, jobs have been cut for the fourth straight month, the government reported on Friday, but at least consumers are spending a bit and the economy actually grew anemically, rather than shrink convincingly into recession.
But really, what triggered my thoughts about that “signs-the-world-isn’t-ending” headline wasn’t the economy. It was the way it seemed to capture my queasiness about the tabloid stories that have bombarded us these few weeks, giving me a confused sense that maybe the world is ending.
At least that world in which an occasional cultural scandal — involving say, a movie star or a mogul or a politician — intrudes on the consciousness, only to be forgotten quickly as something those people do. See: Eliot Spitzer. Who has heard a word about him lately?
At the moment there is a cavalcade of sexual miscreants filling our television screens, and they are of the sort that make the skin crawl precisely because their deviation cannot be attributed to the grandiosity that afflicts celebrities and politicians. The worst of these apparitions is the 73-year-old Austrian who, authorities charge, built a secret chamber of horrors in his basement where he imprisoned his daughter for 24 years and fathered seven children with her. As his lawyers prepare an insanity defense, the circumstances of Josef Fritzl’s marriage dribble out. His wife stayed with him, relatives say, because she had been forced to submit to his tyrannical rule.
In Texas, meanwhile, authorities still sort through the complexities of the polygamist compound where 463 children were swept from the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Eldorado because authorities believe underage girls were forced into sex with older men. Officials say 31 of 53 girls between 14 and 17 who were removed from the camp have children or are pregnant; one boy was born just after his teenage mother was taken from the ranch. There are now suspicions, as well, that older boys at the camp may have been abusing younger boys.
Just this side of the divide between frightening, violent weirdness and crass pop culture, the Disney teen star Miley Cyrus (aka Hannah Montana) was photographed semi-nude for a spread in “Vanity Fair” that includes bizarre shots of her lounging intertwined (though fully clothed) with her father, the country music star Billy Ray Cyrus. Miley Cyrus is the current queen of tweens, a group created by the clothing, makeup and entertainment industries to target prepubescent girls (they are mostly targeting girls) roughly between the ages of 8 and 13. The premature sexualization of girls for fun and profit has long been a source of parental angst. Even so, “Vanity Fair’s” soft-porn treatment of a young actress whom millions of girls adore neatly captures the unsavory overlap between innocence and indecency that undermines the efforts of teachers and parents everywhere who wish their daughters to grow as people, not sex objects.
There is a link between the horrific violence committed against the women of the captive Austrian family and the apparent abuse of teenage girls in Texas, and it is the same unbroken chord that connects them tangentially — but significantly — to Hannah Montana’s fall from grace. When women and girls are routinely viewed as objects, they are dehumanized. They can be seen as chattel or animals, until someone uncovers a horror so complete that we recoil from it. Yet every day around the world, women are still sold into marriage, shunned for their husbands’ adultery, and raped as sexual assault is used as an instrument of war.
No, the degradation we have seen so much of these past few weeks does not signal the end of the world. But it provides a chilling reminder that history itself, with our own culture of sexism and misogyny feeding it, still consigns women to fates no man would wish upon himself.
–Marie Cocco
© 2008, Washington Post Writers Group
I didn’t even know who Miley Cyrus was until all hell broke loose when she behaved like an adult. I recall something similar with the Harry Potter star (a nude theatre performance, remember?), though his version was laid out as a sign of maturity rather than “downfall.”
Horrible, terrible, stupid and evil. Unfortunately, the equally horrible, terrible, stupid and evil media that young boys and girls imbibe does nothing to help …for women or men. This problem’s a matter of social programming. Better to dwell on (and remove) the sources than stand aghast at the symptoms.
And we insist on forcing societies that require or strongly encourage modest dress by both sexes, to import our values of ‘anything goes’, especially in the immodest attire promoted by our fashion designers.
Mothers: teach your daughters to walk in their beauty and power and help them understand the history of this attitude towards females–it goes WAY back to our barbarian ancestors and early medievalism…fight for your daughters instead of caving in and perpetuating this sickness! When mothers give their daughters makeup or let them date (a pre-sex activity for crying out loud!)when they’re ten, they are guilty of encouraging the exploitation of their own gender. Shame on them! I work with disturbed girls and every one of them is a product of a mother who pushed that crap at them, trying to “help” them be popular..ARGH!!!
Fathers: be the support at your daughter’s back when they fight against this type of indoctrination and let them know there are men who don’t go along with this!
I know it is so popular to demonize the Christian right, but as a parent, and as a lifelong agnostic, I have to find common cause with many on the right in their efforts to encourage modesty, prudence, patience, and self-control in the youth, male and female. Humans, being quite adaptable animals, can quite easily develop sexual behaviors at a young age, and do naturally in what we think of as primitive societies, particularly those made up of small groups. In those settings, it is probably healthy for youths to engage in such behaviors. But in our large modern society, the potential for abuse is too great, not just physical abuse but also the sort of abuse amoral corporations engage in to manipulate young minds for commercial gain (leading to self-destructive behavior by such youths), all the while using cynical arguments to gain allies on the left.
I wish more on the left would be open to finding such common cause with the right on issues such as these, but I am not optimistic.
Women are treated as objects to be manipulated. Their self-esteem is associated solely with their sexuality. Unfortunately this seems to be the case in most western countries where promiscuity is accepted and taken as a right. This is why so many women are peddled like cattle into prostitution not just here, but in just about every developed country on Earth. Poorer women are objects of prey to be deceived into working in the sex industry for the wealthy.
Like Kivals has said, there is something to be said about a more modest society where women are respected for other things other than how she looks. Often though women are subjected to imprisonment within a religion that views the human female as something evil.
Arm females. Disarm males. Doubly disarm rapists, 73 yr old dog ugly austrian fathers who rape their daughters, and cults that use *religion* for just one more version of “I likes ‘em young.”
My sister tells me that one day women will be able to colonize their own planet. Can’t come soon enough.
Oh - and remove the tax benefits from exclusive boys clubs like the catholic *church* whose predators don’t go to prison but just get relocated (pensions intact). Enough already.
Regarding Daniel Radcliffe in Equus, he was just a few months shy of turning 18 at the debut, and it was arguably for a literary purpose. It too was probably not appropriate, but Miley Cyrus is only 15 … why is she being shown near-nude ? There can be only one purpose, to sexualize her.
What can we women do about the grotesque proliferation of porn and semi-pornographic images of women in mainstream magazines ? We need to boycott … boycott the magazines, boycott the advertisers in those magazines, boycott the stores that sell the magazines. Simple and effective solution, why aren’t we doing it ???? We need a leader.
atheist - we have many leaders: For one, check out www.now.org. I am in my late 50s and can pinpoint my self hatred and bad body image to the first time as a young teen when I saw a Playboy magazine. To this day I can remember feeling “the good life is for the beautiful women, not for me.”
It’s all so sad.
Has anyone ever wondered about the motivations underlying many current television commercials and their impacts on this issue?
I can’t help thinking that they often portray women as taking gleefully sadistic satisfaction in the humiliation of men, to the point of actual bodily injury in some cases. Probably not the best way to diminish misogyny.
“Their self-esteem is associated solely with their sexuality. Unfortunately this seems to be the case in most western countries where promiscuity is accepted and taken as a right.This is why so many women are peddled like cattle into prostitution not just here, but in just about every developed country on Earth. Poorer women are objects of prey to be deceived into working in the sex industry for the wealthy.”
Shankari25, prostitution, especially in developing countries has nothing to do with self-esteem or deception, but eveything to do with poverty and desperation. And shame on the (male) tourists who capitalize (pun intended) on this.
Juliann: Arm females. Disarm males.
By Saying such things, you’re being no better than what you claim to despise. In fact, THE most hateful thing I have ever read is the SCUM Manifesto written by a militant feminist named Valerie Solanas. (http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm) In fact, if I was to take the text of that ‘book’ and switch every gender reference, I would be arrested for hate speech.
atheist: There can be only one purpose, to sexualize her
That is the only purpose… in fact, that’s what ‘western culture’ does. It takes all these lovely young ladies and turns them into media whores… chewing them up and spitting them out. It takes a especially strong character not to fall into that trap… A classic example is the case of Britney Spears. When she first started out, she was a lovely young lady… but due to the media and the culture, she’s turned into a hollow shell of her former self. THAT’s what western culture does.
“I can’t help thinking that they often portray women as taking gleefully sadistic satisfaction in the humiliation of men, to the point of actual bodily injury in some cases. Probably not the best way to diminish misogyny”
Arvy, it was interesting watching the discussion yesterday re. Pastor Wright. It’s interesting watching how those who enjoy privilege and power through race and gender get so easily offended when the oppressed aren’t prepared to “make nice.”
Arvy: I can’t help thinking that they often portray women as taking gleefully sadistic satisfaction in the humiliation of men
TV portrays women as sex objects… TV portrays men as stupid. Take a look at any sit-com on tv… The mom is always super hot and mostly together… The dad is always kinda stupid and scheming. Case in point: Everyone love Raymond, or King of Queens, etc… Or look at commercials. Men are always kinda stupid in them. Pop Culture spreads negative stereotypes about both genders, not just women.
Female sexuality is not a crime. It is a woman’s ultimate power. The crime is in destroying that power. Images of female sexuality promote women’s power. Control of women through social conservatism destroys that power.
I learned when my daughter was at the tender age of 7 that the fashion industry is apparently run by Humbert Humbert. She had grown from size 6X to a 7, and when we went school shopping that year, we found nothing appropriate for little girls. Everything was too tight, low-cut, low-slung, and shirts were plastered with tacky, suggestive sayings. And this was at “respectable” stores like Sears and JC Penney’s! A few years later, when she was 12, the only bra I could find in her size at JCP was a padded, push-up number with the idiotic brand name of “Flirtitude.” Ugh!
Joni Rose: I know EXACTLY what you are saying and have experienced that in attempting to outfit my daughter…. finding clothes that aren’t “too sexy” for a 12 year old girl is tough, but it can be done.
kivals, you’re not alone. I too am a left-liberal agnostic who is utterly appalled at the images and the sick celebrity-antics-to-be-emulated that our young girls and women are bombarded with. I have many friends who are religious, and this is a point on which we emphatically agree.
I never realized till recently how lucky I was to have grown up in an era that allowed us girls to be kids until we were 14 or so, and then celebrated grownup romance and love — which we dreamed of and looked forward to (and considered sex to be the natural outcome of).
elmysterio — until my daughter outgrew them, the Land’s End kids clothes were the best… cute, age-appropriate styles, well-made, and she liked them. Worth the price. I don’t mean to be an ad for the company, but just want to offer this up as a suggestion to any other mothers who are going through the same ordeal.
Unfortunately, the older they get, the harder it is. It isn’t just peer pressure, but the ugly comments from the middle school mean girls who have accepted and embraced the “Lolita” look. I don’t understand what their mothers are thinking.
Hmmmm. Is that response to a comment about portrayals of female attitudes towards male humiliation intended to validate those protrayals?
MALE HUMILIATION? Don’t even talk to me about male humiliation when discussing misogyny.
Arm females. Disarm males. See how quickly rape stops.
No apologies.
In 1970 I joined a group (M&F) at Ohio State to combat the rash of attacks by males against females. The woman who started the group went to California to learn more about spear heading such an effort - it was new in those years. Her dismembered body was later found washed up on a Calif beach.
The only anguish about rape in Columbus that year was on the front page of the Columbus Dispatch when the Governor found out that young men in prisons were being raped (horrible! don’t misunderstand me on my anger towards that also) - and he called for an investigation.
But never into rape of women.
Well, I am shocked. SHOCKED, I say! Here is an article concerning the topic of misogyny on CommonDreams and not ONE comment concerning the regular uber misogynistic treatment that Ms. Clinton receives EVERYDAY.
Oh, I forgot… it’s the commentors who rant on about her like they do. I am not even a supporter of Sen. Clinton, but I find the level of misogyny intolerable, and after reading this, highly hypocritical.
“Hmmmm. Is that response to a comment about portrayals of female attitudes towards male humiliation intended to validate those protrayals?”
No more than the portrayal of male attitudes towards the humiliation, subjugation and exploitation of women in pornography is a validation of those portrayals.
One must remember that the greatest culprits of misogyny are monotheists. It doesn’t matter which brand…
juliann.
i agree with the fundamentals of yours, and other posters, comments about the misogynistic and objectifying elements of society, so i have not comment about these issues strictly.
however, i can only assume that this ‘arm females, disarm males’ mantra you’ve posted a couple of times now is meant as a symbolic, non-literal attempt at a sort of cliché for the sake of emphasis.
nevermind the entire psychology of power and domination that it ignores, it is quite simply unrealistic and, well, dull…
again, i’m not arguing that females can be considered more compassionate and caring than their male counterparts- but pithy slogans like this one ALWAYS simplify and reduce coherent thoughts to simplistic diatribe. not logical or helpful.
Hey, how come Souixrose hasn’t replied to this yet? I wanna hear all about “Mars”! Again.
The reason things seem to be terrible is that the media farms these terrible events from all over the globe and distills them into audience-grabbing fear and shock. There are maybe a billion people in the US and Europe combined. The media has grabbed the story of that one - one - guy and ut it on everyone’s screen.
Now, what he did was terrible beyond belief. But … it has nothing whatever to do with you. Or me. He’s one in a thousand million.
The polygamous compound, however, is a different matter. Yes - any religion with roots in semitic bronze-age culture (ie: anything to do with the Old Testament) is systematically misogynist and patriarchal. No shit. These guys were living exactly as Abraham and the other patriarchs lived, with the same privileges endorsed by the same God. ‘S fun to see the christians squirm and try to explain their explicitly biblical lifestyle away.
Hey PAUL, cut me some slack… it’s after 11 and granny here is helping to raise/form/inspire a new model male citizen in the form of my delightful, yet demanding, 2.5 year old Grandson. Cheers…
Galen said, “One must remember that the greatest culprits of misogyny are monotheists. It doesn’t matter which brand…”
I think you might want to take a look at the figures documenting the millions of “missing” females, as well as the treatment of women in general, in India, not exactly a bastion of monotheism.
As a woman and a mother of three daughters (ages 24, 18 and 11) I am all too familiar with the culture of misogyny. I feel lucky to have had the then “new” Ms. Magazine and the cool, then young, feminists of the time to help me sort through the anti-female messages of my teen years. In some ways, though blatent sexism was more condoned then, it’s harder to be a young woman in 2008 than it was then. A sophisticated political backlash and self-serving corporate world have joined forces to convince young women that the feminism of their mothers is just not cool and you can be more “liberated” by wearing hot clothes, calling each other “bitch” and putting out (my older girls tell me it’s called “hooking up” and I see it making them sad and shaking their confidence). This makes me sad because I see it hurting my children.
There seems to be a funny (not “ha ha” funny) dance that is done about human suffering. I’m seeing some of it here. When someone identifies a systemic source of human suffering that targets one specific group (racism, sexism, etc.) those who are not in that group (and may even perpetuate that suffering, either awarely or unawarely) find it necessary to make it clear that they, too, suffer. Yes, we all are human and suffering is part of the human condition. Imagine if those of good will could first, validate the suffering of those not in our own group and, second, join together to learn how to change things. It does happen. Some of my closest allies in the battle for respect for and equal treatment of women/girls are men (my children’s father, for one). As a white woman, I have spent decades learning about the history, systemic oppression and personal stories of people of color in order to be a better ally and friend. What if the many progressive men who read an article like this on Common Dreams simply replied that, yes, misogyny is one of the systems of oppression that, together, we must eliminate? Just doing that would communicate that we are closer to our goal than it sometimes seems.
LJ329: Enlightened post. I, too, grew up on MS. and raised (2) daughters. Although our generation was raised with a TV in the home, the power of mass media has become the equivalent of the very atmosphere persons breathe. There often is a reflex on the part of each new generation to rebel against the former. Media/corporations have indeed used that behavioral norm to turn the youth against the GREEN values of the generation, a portion of us, that became AWARE during the 60’s and 70’s. We understood the power of the machine, its will to format people, its merchandising of every sacred thing, its reflex for war, its tolerance of injustice, its remodeling the planet and its natural bounty into marketable “manmade” items instead.
Your point that “power” is now defined in this group as those who get the most toys from adapting to the culture favored by the elites who pay to ensure that specific messages are radiated 24/7 throughout the media and its tentacles. The worst was when I met a young woman who was an “exotic dancer” arguing THAT was liberation. She didn’t understand the degree to which identifying herself as a willing sex object to make big bucks, reduced more important things about her than her capacity to drive a nicer car than her “sister” working at some retail store.
In any case, every wave (progress) rolls under to regain forward momentum. Let us hold fast to our dreams as the current wave draws us all under… before WE rise again.
Feminist media efforts like http://www.msmagazine.org and http://www.newmoon.org deserve support.
Preston - thank you for sharing the newmoon URL / that one is new to me and I look forward to sharing it with my 10 yr old niece and nephew. Oh … and me too. As for “arming” females and “disarming” males … Klimt assumed it was a reference to power and domination. My apologies to you for my being dull, pithy, not logical or helpful, nonliteral, and whatever else.
Females of ALL ages must take back the power we had before the patriarch took over. My Cherokee friends (all very powerful, and nonviolent to a man) take pride in the matriarchal system of their tribal origins. It is not power - it honors the feminine in all of life.
Onward.
And sometimes, on college campuses, when stalkers of women are treated as less than a real and dangerous threat to society, they turn into mass murders that kill young men AND women alike. Who knew.
I sure wish the men of the world would wake up and police their own. I’m so tired of the “not my fault, so it’s not my problem” defensiveness of so many men I’ve heard and read and argued with.
But men see humanity as “man”, so what are you going to do. They’ll hide behind a bible, language, society or family traditions, anything to keep us down. Anythin at all. No shame.
I don’t even know why we bother talking about it anymore. Nothing is going to change, not in our lifetimes. They won generations before we were born, and we all know who the losers are.
Gender Slavery. Gender Slavery. Gender Slavery. Women are property. That is the foundation of it all - whether flat-earth pastoralist tribes of killer nomads (Semitic or Aryan), or the various forms of gender slavery in the East and on the Pacific Rim (except for the Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders, Mama Loa). All Property. There have been some reforms in the US & and more notably in the Socialist countries of the EU over the last 100 years, all currently in the process of being reversed. We just loved Oligarchy and Plantation Slavery as a model of society too much.
No economic or biological self-determination for ‘females’ will be allowed. A ‘female’ cannot terminate a pregnancy in 85% of the counties in the US and the rest will likely go shortly. Price for contraception going through the roof (if the Pharmacist will fill the scrip)and will also be eliminated. Don’t worry, at the time you won’t notice, you’ll be too busy scrambling just to survive, like now except much much worse. Master wants it that way and America worships MAster.
Misogyny? No. That word is waaay tooo soffttt. Slavery. Chains whips tools of torture. They’ll be glad to be ‘used’ as sex femmes, lighter work, shorter hours, better food.
We chose this when we chose a society based on exclusion and constant war. White Male Supremacy. To this day.
That’s what keeps troglodytes at the top of our shit pile. That’s what is going to turn this country into 3000 miles of smoking rubble.
Sorry.
Julianne said: Don’t even talk to me about male humiliation when discussing misogyny.
Ah, there’s the fault in your argument right there. You’re a frickin man hater… which of course is JUST as bad as men being woman-haters. I’m all about equal treatment of the sexes as well as addressing the concepts of domestic violence… BUT as soon as someone takes it across the equality line into female-superiority, then you’re no better than what you claim to despise.
Massud wrote: Female sexuality is not a crime. It is a woman’s ultimate power. The crime is in destroying that power. Images of female sexuality promote women’s power. Control of women through social conservatism destroys that power.
—
Why is sexuality a woman’s “ultimate power” ?? What about her intelligence, her empathy ?
Images of female sexuality are healthy ONLY if they mirror reality, and reality is NOT airbrushed implanted 20 year olds wearing mini skirts without panties or flashing their breasts for GWG without proper monetary compensation (stupid girls, wake up and GET PAID !) or having sex without having orgasms or using sex as a commodity.
Our current images of female sexuality are appalling, and it’s really amazing that any of us who have endured decades of them can have decent relationships, decent sex, and a decent self-image, because the people who present these images work SO HARD to convince us that we are seriously deficient.
I am asking all people here, men and women, to help engage in some civil disobedience. You know the magazine racks in the drug, grocery, and bookstores ? Whenever you find a magazine with a misogynist cover on it, do one of 3 things: Cover it up with a men’s workout magazine with beefcake male on the front, turn it around so that the offensive cover is hidden, or remove the magazine entirely and dump it behind the rack. I do this at every store I visit, and I’ve gotten so good at it that I’ll do it right in front of the store staff. I encourage all other people to do the same, I know I will really enjoy the day when I come across a rack and someone has already done the good deed.
Next step, boycott. I would like NOW to organize one. We CAN get rid of these images, but it must be done through the force of a boycott.
Whatever4: EXCELLENT COMMENT: “I sure wish the men of the world would wake up and police their own. I’m so tired of the “not my fault, so it’s not my problem” defensiveness of so many men I’ve heard and read and argued with.”
And yes, don’t even talk to me about male humiliation when discussing misogyny. Male humiliation is in no way in the league of keeping women from voting until not that long ago, keeping women from having access to reproductive health care, keeping women at pay that is 75% of men’s pay, keeping women from the better paying jobs even when they are comparably qualified and educated (I’ve worked in human resources for years - I KNOW what goes on). Geez I could go on and on but this stuff scares a lot of males.
This morning’s Cleveland news - a segment on a woman found kidnapped and shot in a local park. The headline? “Half naked woman found in metro park.” Would a man be described as “half naked” if he’d been found shot in a park? No. Because that doesn’t excite the male listener. We lost progressive radio in NEOhio a year ago. I love talk radio but channel surfing on the way to work only landed on radio talk shows where women were called bitches, sluts, and whores. (I managed to knock one of those morning shows off the air by notifying their sponsors of what they were supporting. But I digress.) The afternoon talk team (same station) begged people to call in with rape JOKES.
It’s all so obvious and so few people get it.
It’s easier to call me a man hater than to take responsibility for talking to the men you know about caring about women, and working to stop the abuse.
We all need to take better care of one another. It’s easy, really. It happens when we listen, when we care, when we do what we can to help a person - whether it’s to see that they have enough of the basic necessities when they’re down and out, whether it’s to work with injured veterans, whether it’s to support literacy programs (VERY important), or sometimes just to listen. Male, female - doesn’t matter. We just need to do a better job of it all. In my case - I care too much, and in recent years the abuse of women and other living beings has just put me over the edge.
Having said all of that - I vow to be more sensitive to the power of my words in the future. Because I do care.
Onward.
I oppose both male bashing and misogyny. We are all in it together. We need to ignore all the forces that attempt to create a dicotomy between us: Male vs female, left vs right, us vs them.
We need to recognize that “divide and conquer” message that the MSM and the religions etc. are giving us can be ignored. We do not have to respond or even listen to these messages.
I love men. I love women too having been one all my life. We are wonderful. Lets stop listening to messages to the contrary. Let us allow the Goddess to return from exile and take her rightful place along side the God.
But we cannot be “in it together” if the vast majority of men buy into the misogyny. And judging by the number of them who hire prostitutes, patronize strip joints, peddle and purchase harmful porn (not all porn is harmful), molest children, expect all women to be airbrush-and-implanted “perfection” … we’ve got a BIG problem and we cannot rely on these men to do the right thing. We women must take control ourselves. It doesn’t mean we hate these men, it just means that we’re sick of suffering from their ignorance and selfishness.
Honestly people, read up a few posts and begin by employing the civil disobedience I recommend. And then let’s take it to the next step, let’s participate in a mass boycott and demand that the images of women be more realistic and less damaging.
Maybe we need a bit of that Maggie Thatcher nannyism. The swaggering boys of “Mission Accomplished” could use their ears pinned back a bit. We need to get on with what needs to be done in this country beyond, money, war, oil and greed.
Ms. Clinton may be just the tonic for what ails us. A pseudo macho world of idiots that keep screwing things up needs to be sent to their rooms for a little time out. Maybe during that time we can clean up the mess that the irresponsible and reckless children have made and get things back in order.
Dear SHOCKED. Wish I WERE shocked. But did you miss the clobbering of Gloria Steinem on Democracy Now by Dr. Melissa Harris-Lacewell from Harvard? Ms. Steinem was trying to make the argument that things might be hard for Hillary as a woman while she was also saying things would be hard for Barack as a black man. Melissa essentially countered with the argument that Gloria was a has-been secondwave feminist and that to make any distinction between one class of oppression from another was to be divisive. We’ve certainly heard that talking point in someone’s campaign. And, if there is a third wave, I’m still waiting for it to start because I haven’t seen hide nor hair of it.
Well, it is hard to say one person or one group suffers more, or that women don’t collude with their oppressors, or that making distinctions may be intrepreted wrongly. But, like it or not, there are distinctions. I worked in social service for many years helping women and children out of prostitution, pornography, rape, and domestic violence. There were boys and men, too, but nothing compared to the numbers of girls and women. During these years, I heard lots of stats, read lots of studies. One study done in the mid-seventies, if I recall correctly, was conducted at the University of Berkely California. Participants, who were made up of an equal number of women and men attending classes at the University, were asked various questions about gender issues. One question stood out for me especially - when asked what they each feared most from the oppposite sex, most men answered that they feared women would humiliate them. The women overwhelming answered that they feared men would kill them.
This clarified the issue of who holds most of the power between males and females. Advertisers have learned to sell product to men who fear women might humiliate them. This speaks to the use of humiliation of men in advertising, and the objectification and humiliation of women in the same venue.
There is no conversation about the historicity of a woman running for president. Very little about a black man as far as that goes. But feminism, or the placing of women in equal status as men, is a taboo subject and is clearly remaining so.
That second wave of feminism Melissa so easily dismissed ended when protecting men from feelings of humiliation became vitally more important than protecting women from rape and murder. How do you have intelligent conversation about something so dispirit you’d think the people involved lived in completely different worlds? For the sake of maintaining relationships with the men they loved and harmony in the house for the children they reared, women stopped the conversation. There was no good plan, no good words, no good blueprint on how to have the discussion without it turning into accusation and anger. Apparently there still isn’t. But I keep hoping.
juliann.
thanks for the clarification. i think this sort of clear articulation of principles is much more constructive than the catchy little one-liners. this is why i asked you- rather, hoped out loud- that it was not a literal statement.
but it seems to me that, being such an over-simplification of a decent, necessary strategy, wouldn’t it be better left out? i just find that 99% of these ’slogans for a cause’ are nonsensical at best and more often terribly misleading.
didn’t intend to insult- it was the hyperbole i was taking issue with, not you.
Very illuminating commentary on this piece! I’m glad to read the deeply humanitarian pro-feminists in this discussion stay calm and articulate in the face of attack. Very inspiring.
Have you all seen the article “Women Bridging Borders to Beat Violence” at http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/07/8772/
A different look at this same issue.
That discussion went off topic on the very first post into a back-and-forth about which gender is more violent to the other(I am assuming either conscious derailment or utter defensiveness on the part of the first commentator.) I saw Stilba and Nellemason added their helpful voices and am wondering what some others of you might be moved to say about it.
VIC FROM OREGON: Excellent posting.
atheist,
Your parenthetical statement took some of the steam out of your proposal.
Could you define for us the kinds of porn that are not harmful?
ruthru … porn that depicts realistic loving/affectionate sex between consenting adults is not harmful.
I have to tell you all, I was in my neighborhood CVS drugstore this morning. I passed the magazine rack and was surprised by 2 rows of beefcake men on display, covering the normally-in-front half-naked women. Whoever did that, bless your heart.
Commenting on Vic’s excellent post, specifically this comment “For the sake of maintaining relationships with the men they loved and harmony in the house for the children they reared, women stopped the conversation.” THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS. Women are compromising in order to have/keep a man. You would think that to be boyfriend-less or husband-less is the worst thing a woman could suffer, judging by the way women behave ! Women starve themselves, shove silicone-filled plastic bags into their chests, waste billions of dollars on cosmetics, and have orgasm-less sex to get men, and as if that’s not bad enough, they stay with men who disrespect them or outright abuse them. It’s kind of like the Wright-Obama thing … when the woman was dating the man, didn’t she see the trouble that would occur ?? Why did she stay with him ? Why did she have kids with him ??
I don’t think women fear being killed by men, I think they fear being ABANDONED by men. Another case of humiliation.
It’s probably that very few continue to read the posts for this article. However, I do want to thank Vic from Oregon for writing: “One question stood out for me especially - when asked what they each feared most from the oppposite sex, most men answered that they feared women would humiliate them. The women overwhelming answered that they feared men would kill them.”
My point exactly - many posts up.
Onward.