Anything that derails the Obamaniacs is o.k. with me at this point! What is it going to take to WAKE PEOPLE UP about what a terrible candidate Barack Obama really is?? I wish people would stop with their hero worshipping and actually take a look at his RECORD, at his WORDS, at his LACK OF LEADERSHIP, at his POOR REPUBLICAN-LITE POLICIES!

Still no one is looking at the fact that Wright was RIGHT about much of what he said.

I clicked on this article hoping to read something thoughtful about our narcissistic political culture--no, not Reverend Wright's alleged narcisissm, but the fanatical self-love of a country which can't admit its support for torture and war crimes, both its own and those of its allies.

Instead I read another half-witted piece by an Obama cultist.

I'm going to vote for Obama in the fall and I did so in the primaries. But he's a politician, like Reverend Wright said. He used to be sympathetic to the Palestinians--now he takes the AIPAC line. I realize that to an Obama cultist this is sacrilege, but someday you're going to have to enter the real world and not expect too much from any politician ambitious enough to win the Presidency.

Without providing specifics, Rich Griffin rails hysterically against Barack Obama for various "reasons."

I'll simply ask other readers of this board to apply these same criteria to Hillary Clinton and John McCain (when the time comes).

The most disgusting point of Rich's post is the absolute refusal to accept that those of us currently supporting Obama are doing so as a well considered choice.

There's much about Obama that I don't like but, when I consider the alternatives, I still support him.

jj

I'm not a Democrat, live in Cali which will go towards the Democrats anyway and probably will vote for a third party. However, I find it interesting that so many "progressives" repeat ad nausea not just the conventional logic on Wright but that anyone who defends Obama against elite PR hit jobs (many of the same folks who sold you the war and are trying to sell you another with Iran), cultists. They make it sound like this is the Cultural Revolution or something, I've seen little to nothing of blind hero worship, at least not off the charts in this country. How many presidents have been elected for ridiculously simplistic and superficial reasons, really for personal reasons that have nothing to do with policy? Does it make any sense, after 8 years of nothing but talking points, to puke up conventional logic given to you by the right wing here? I'm not for hero worship myself but it seems that people are calling most backers of Obama "cultists" when they really just don't want to listen to their point of view and are looking at any low hanging fruit for cheap digs. If you're backing the other two zombie candidates, just realize the cheap shots can EASILY go either way, then the debate is no better or different than the chatter heads on the Sunday morning talking head shows.

The media demonizes a man, Wright, who has worked on behalf of the poor and the ignored in this corporate dominated, absurd, irrational and reactionary country and is now Hitler. Instead of the left fighting back against these disgusting people who've worked hard to get horrible legislation and policies put in place that have made the country worse off, they add on with stupid and easy cheap shots. I'm sorry, but with all the WHITE right wing religious crazies making their violent reactionary comments, with a yawn from the elite media, it comes across as a racially and ideologically motivated hit job. Screw anyone who falls for it or adds on, you've attached yourself to the problem and most of you seem too lost to realize that you're nothing more than useful idiots to the elite press. If people are going to attack Obama, attack him because he's (like the other two) too cowardly to back things like universal healthcare when 2/3's of the country is in favor of it. Don't be lead by people who've proven they can't lead anywhere but down.

Rev. Wright spoke truth to power, and has been castigated.

'Pastor' John Haggee openly calls for genocide, and is treated with deference and greeted with open arms by John McCain.

It is the Armageddonist ambitions of Haggee that will be seated at the right hand of McCain in the Whitehouse.

Not the truth telling we need at this dangerous junction of world history.

Thank you Galen.

None of the three remaining 'viable candidates desrve to lead this country - especially Obama - for turning on Wright, especially when he speaks truth.

The only hope for the country is to draft Gore or sommeone of that stature to be a nominee.

Rich Griffin,

Substitute Hillary Clinton for Obama in your post and then it makes much more sense.

Draft Gore, now there's an idea!

I haven't seen much of Wright's talks, so the following remarks are provisional until I get time to watch them on Youtube. It sounds like he chooses to rake over old grievances and inject conspiracy tidbits like the CIA spreading AIDS in black communities instead of highlighting real and current problems, like the destruction of public housing in New Orleans. Rhetoric isn't "radical" or "speaking truth to power" if it doesn't hold out hope or promise solutions. Wright held the spotlight the other week but he didn't do anything useful with it, not for Obama, and not for America's poor. If he really wanted to help Obama with the remarks he made, he should have concluded by endorsing...John McCain! They're fellow Vietnam veterans, after all.

militantliberal, so you reached your conclusion by watching a clip or two off of youtube, the same clip that the press has played over and over again (the actual substinative things that the press has no counter for, like the "blowback", a CIA term by the way, that lead to 9/11, our immoral justice & economic system)...yeah, scholarly research there. Maybe the people here have actually heard more than the AIDS comment because they take the time to look for more than what is handed to them by the corporate press, and are responding to that. Ever think of that?

Also, why would he endorse McCain when the man is a violent war mongering right winger who stands for polices (that are the direct opposite of what Wright stands for), outdated and failed policies, that not only kill innocent people but create more poverty and misery for Wright's community? You'd know how ridiculous your suggestions are if you actually put forth effort and read up on what Wright has said (beyond the AIDS comment, which the media feeds you and you just gobble it up like a good little boy), which you haven't.

Obama is the best of three lame choices, and Wright definitely hurt him with his gibberish at the National Press club. He was the flip side of some 1930 white preacher yapping about blacks who love watermelon, pig feet, and buck-dancing in the road. No excuse for that performance. Let's hope Obama can overcome, in spite of the MSM and Wright.

Amen Rich Griffin!!!! What about Nader or Gravel?

No, no, Rich, you're missing the point. People aren't thinking at the moment - they are sleep walking through a waking dream. As Naomi Klein points out, this is a time when our "leaders" have created a sense of end-times, which creates a state of mind in which fear and agitation and a desire for sweeping solutions to over-simplified problems and superhuman leadership takes hold. There is nothing rational about the self destructive mania for Obama - it's a typical product of the hysteria engendered by the PR onslaught post 9/11, our shock and awe event deemed to have prepared us for such a cleaning of the slate. The impassioned onslaught on Hillary, equally irrational and self destructive, is its other face (because good versus evil is the language of such moments, as people strive for a moral context for their anxiety). Obama is benefiting from the backwash - which conceals his inadequacies, his opportunism and his Bliarite "wolf in sheep's clothing" strategies, courting the right and promoting their policies in the name of unity.

It is a sign of true patriotism (that is, one inseparable from one's moral conscience) to say "Goddamn!" at one's country when it fails so many of its professed values and betrays so many of its children (see US poverty rates, health-uninsured rates, incarcaration rates, crime rates, capital punishment rates, crumbling infrastructure, education levels, global warming, unchecked militarism, insane foreign policy, etc).

The way things are, there is something obscene about anyone saying "God bless America", 21rst century translation of "Let them eat cake".

Wasn't that clip of Reverned Wright doctored by Fox news? I may be mistaken but I don't believe there was any applauding during the services on that Sunday following September 11th in 2001. Can Fox prove that the clip they have of the sermon is whole and not modified in any way? I beleive the real story is Fox's methods of manipulating the facts to produce outcomes that would not occur in the light of truth and authentic journalism. Also, the context of the Reverend's statement was not in the form of an attack. He was only expressing some feelings grieving family members were or might have been experiencing. And, explaining that such feelings were not conducive to a healthy state of mind or spirit.

Sure it's suspicious that they are slamming Rev Wright, if you believe that the media are fair, balanced and there to give you the news. I happen to think that it's all going to plan. The ruling class wants a Democrat in this next time, when the economy collapses, and they attack Iran, so that the unpleasantness to come will be blamed on Hillary, and the draft and the concentration camps will be more accepted by the sheep. Cause, after all, it's a Democrat, so it's not bad.

I have always thought that Hillary would be the nominee, because she and Bill have proven themselves for decades to the ruling class and the shadow government. Their reward is the White House, and the trappings of power and wealth that go with it. But they have to play the Clinton-Obama drama out as long as possible to keep the people interested and engaged. This has been going on for a year now, and we still have 6 months to go. Don't you see that it has to swing back and forth?

And, while we're talking about unsavory religious ties, (and I do mean Haggee, not Wright), what about the Bushes and their buddy, Rev Moon? The one who says that the world must speak Korean, that he is the Messiah, that performs mass marriages? The one who owns the Washington Times and the UPI? The one who owns 1.5 millions acres next to the Bush 500,000 acres in Paraguay?
http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2008/04/rev-wright-and-rev-moon-wheres-outrage.html
The total blackout of this connection should tell you all you need to know about the corporate media.

And, by the way, millions of people throughout the world believe that AIDS is a biological warfare weapon being used to depopulate Africa so that the US can exploit the riches there without resistance. If you've never heard this theory, chalk it up, once again, to the corporate media that has never reported this widespread belief. Or has never looked critically at the evidence.

And I don't think that 9-11 was blowback. I think it was a neocon shadow government event to subvert American democracy and attack countries in the Middle East. So Rev Wright is too conservative for me. And so is his candidate. But the fact that he's too conservative for me doesn't mean that he's acceptable to the ruling class.

I'm not American but I feel that all the world has a right to comment since US policies affect all of us so hugely.

I know Obama is far, far from perfect. I am disappointed in his reaction to Rev. Wright's news conference last week, but it looks like it will be quite some time before someone who stands up and says "Rev. Wright has some good points" will have any chance at all of being elected.

In my opinion, Obama is still a breath of fresh air and a way better choice than the other two. He seems thoughtful and intelligent to me and I would like to see what he will do. You will have to choose one of the three or abstain. This isn't heaven, it's earth. We're not angels, we're imperfect humans. There are no absolute solutions. I'm hoping Obama represents a little harm reduction and movement in the right direction.

Here's a link to Congressional testimony in 1969 asking for funds for a biological warfare weapon that should sound very familiar to us.

http://panindigan.tripod.com/aidsdodhear.html

dlnelson7 said on May 6th, 2008 1:09 pm: Still no one is looking at the fact that Wright was RIGHT about much of what he said.

Right or not, he made the unforgivable sin of telling the TRUTH about the United States and it's evil foreign policy... that's a big no-no in the US... can't go against the group-think brainwashing.

The best part of Betsy Hartmann's offering is her last paragraph.

By all means, let's talk just a little bit about separation of church and state, and what it means for a media circus to impose a test of religious belief and piety upon those seeking the presidential nomination of both major national political parties.

If Barack and Michele Obama had attended an ordinary, mainstream, low key middle class church somewhere in the surburbs rather than on Chicago's raucus south side, nobody would have bothered to cull through twenty years of their pastors' Sunday sermons looking for controversial tidbits to be plucked out and rebroadcast completely divorced from their context.

For instance, nobody would dream of fly specking the words or writings of Joe Lieberman's rabbi to pull out passages about Jews as God's Chosen people, or digging through the archived homilies of Ted Kennedy's parish priest for crisp quotes about Papal infallability, for the purpose of then cross examining those Senators on the campaign trail about whether they endorse, or denounce, or can reconcile their religious mentors' thoughts with the diverse needs of a pluralistic community of tax paying voters made up of believers and nonbelievers alike. Why, that would be patently unfair.

But that was the mine field that the black candidate with the funny name was compelled to try to tip toe through. It was a no win situation for Senator Obama from the get go, once the wall of separation between politics and personal religiosity was breached - a watershed moment that passed entirely without comment among the assembled media punditry.

I agree with Betsy Hartmann that timing can be real important, but let's also not neglect the substance.

First, Barack Obama had to deny that he was a closet Muslim, schooled in a madrassa somewhere, who took his oath of office upon the Koran. Then, he was compelled to reject and denounce Louis Farrakhan, the American variety of Muslim that contributed Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammed to the nation's collective anxieties. Now, disavow under pressure this heresy called black liberation theology, an activist social gospel so different from the time honored, majoritarian Christian approved brand of faith.

Senator Obama clearly has been hurt for denouncing his pastor in some quarters, just as certainly as he got hurt politically in other demographic quarters last month, when in his marvelous Philadelphia speech on American racial dynamics, he initially refused to throw Reverend Wright under the bus, stating he could no more disavow Wright than he could disavow the black community.

Even the damage control was damaging. That's why religion and politics should never mix, unless of course it's the candidate (like a Mike Huckabee, or a Pat Robertson, or the born again George Bush) who choose to wear their religion upon their sleeve as a prominent credential.

The real reason that the Reverend Wright controversy has such legs as a partisan wedge issue ultimately moves beyond religion and back to fear - especially, to fear and fear mongering among white Americans.

My God, I mean just think about it: what if Jeremiah Wright and Al Sharpton were to team up with Jesse Jackson, and together all three came marching through the streets of DC some day with thousands of followers, to pay a call at the White House on President Barack Obama?

Would Barack be "tough enough" to slam the gate in their collective face (or worse) if, heaven forbid, there were racial unrest in the streets on his Presidential watch?

Still confident he's a safe pair of hands?

You better believe ugly fears like these are being mulled over, murmurred about, stoked, and pandered to in parts of white America during the ebb and flow of this presidential campaign season. The Founders of the republic knew such tragedies could happen, if church and state were allowed to become intertwined.

Bill from Saginaw

The government is thoroughly corrupt and controlled. Change will not come from Obama or Hillary, it will come from the bottom once sufficient numbers recognize the truth. Wright was right in much of what he said, but there is so much more. If the bottom 90% do not wake up, well, they are all toast, and even much of the top 10% who think they will be protected because they go along with the game, believing the bottom 90% are too dumb to overcome the propaganda, will be victims. They are just pawns being used by the elite.

All you can do is open your mind to the truth, and convince as many others to open theirs, and hope it takes hold. The elite are likely physical cowards, as thye are small in number, so if enough people wake up they may back down. Ignorance gives them strength. Truth among the masses terrorize them. The truth hides behind resistance to discussion. Where the MSM or politicians express the most outrage at an idea, or is silent, you can be sure the idea has an element of truth that is a key to the conspiracy.

Conspiracy among the elite and government leaders is a concept people have been conditioned to believe is not possible, after all, MSM would be all over it like Watergate (that was the point of Watergate BTW). By definition, conspiracy is simply a plot by people who secretly conspire to get away with something without anyone knowing who did it. Happens every day. Thousands of people get convicted of a conspiracy to perform some illegal act. Consider that those who are involved a conspiracy have the following assets.

Control great wealth (control institutions, individuals and corporations)
Control each nations money supply (control nations)
Control the worlds oil (control nations)
Control of much of the worlds food (control nations)
Control of the MSM (prevents whistle blowers from coming out)
Control of the education system (brain wshes the young with a false history)
Control of government-law enforcement and military (punish opponents)
Control of many of the worlds religious leaders (influence the flock)
Control of the intelligence agencies (spy on citizens and opponents)

Unlike most regular people involved in conspiracies, having tools like this make it rather easy to get away with pretty much anything when there is a consensus among the conspirators.

Consider also that many of these wealthy and powerful elite come from families where they have traced their ancestors back for hundreds and in some cases thousands of years, and who have been involved in a conspiracy for global control for at least 200 years. Queen Elizabeth II traces here ancestry back to Mohammad. The Bush's have blood ties to European royalty.

Under such conditions, how can there not be such a conspiracy. It is this conspiracy that our founding fathers were concerned about when they drafted the constitution in the hope there were sufficient checks and balances to protect it. Ben Franklin was doubtful about our being able to keep our freedom, since he knew well the forces behind the conspiracy. He was right.

If your truth does not point to a conspiracy, your truth is a lie.

I personally think the Wright issue was about making it very unpopular to openly discuss the issues of race in America. And it has worked pretty well.

Obviously Wright was played and played well. I have watched the Moyer interview in its' entirety and I have watched the whole National Press Club interview. He did pretty well with his prepared remarks. During the question and answer session he got very cocky and mocking. I still think that the substance of many of his answers are well worth listening to but his attitude did not help with his message. In general, people see is the interviews what they seek to see. If they are there to condemn, you can see that; if you are there to listen to that different point of view, you can hear that.

But Rev. Wright got painted with the same brush as so many of our international partners. If we don't like your "looks" we will find a way to discredit your entire message.

And God Bless Jimmy Carter. As he has said it is pretty hard to solve problems by only talking to those you agree with.

I completely agree with Rev.Wright on just about everything he said. In fact id even go further than that. However he committed the cardinal sin by placing his own interests first. He had his 5 minutes of fame and grabbed it like any other self-aggrandizing, selfish mo__f__er, and he did it intentionally despite knowing the consequences. In other words he is an asshole. He cant see a brother shine ...

I, too, think that Rev. Wright is right about much of what he's said (except the AIDS conspiracy). However, that has no relationship to Barack Obama. Wright's views on political issues are irrelevant to Barack Obama, and anyone with 1 ounce of common sense should see this. All right, maybe you need 2 ounces. Rev. Wright does not dictate to Obama how he should think; nor was he ever a part of the Obama campaign. Imagine going back through every person Hillary Clinton has known, had a meal with, attended a conference with, been at a fundraiser with, enrolled in college classes with, sat on a corporate board with, etc, etc. Now, let's sift through all of them and see if we can come up with any "scary" characters who might hold, or who might have held, radical political views. If we can place them in the same room, at any time and any place, we can put an unbreakable tether between them, and they will be linked for all time -- guilty by association. Actually, guilty by proximity.

I wish everyone would stop saying Wright talked about an AIDS conspiracy--he said he would not put it past our govt considering their past behaviors.

So African American young men incarcerated at unconsionable numbers, crack cocaine imported into our black neighborhoods to further deterioratre a hopeless situation, isn't enoughj evidence that this govt wants black people gone???? and all us arm chair socialologists think we have the friggin right to criticize Jerimiah Wright's indignation!!! Get a clue folks! You don't know shit about the black experience in this country!!!!! That's because most inner city blacks live in prison even when they aren't in prison.

But let's all get friggin hot and bothered when we finally see how pissed off they are. Oh we sure are progressive, aren't we? No we're smug and arrogant and mostly ignorant, but that won't stop us from shooting off our mouths.

Three things to consider:

1. The single biggest thing overlooked about all that Dr. Wright has said are his statements "I am not a politician, I am a preacher and on November 5th and January 21st, I will still be a preacher. (At the National Press Club Q&A) and (on Bill Moyers interview)"I have already told Obama should he win the presidency, I'll be coming after you next."

2. We have a trillion dollar plus war, a country whose infra-structure is falling apart, and an economy going down the crapper and what are we (including so many progressive writers and critics) talking about? You are being suckered again!

3. While all this brouhaha is going on keep your eyes on military maneuvers by the US Navy in the Persian Gulf off of Iran (non-white-trash pronounciation "EAR-RAN") More than any supreme court decision, or the political campaign distractions, this will impact the future of the United
States and the world.

4. Questions not being asked of political candidates that ought to be:

Will you feel in any way bound by the several thousand signing statements signed by Bush excusing himself and the executive branch from various laws passed by congress?

Will you seek the repeal of the Patriot Act, the Military Comissions Act,the suspension of habeus corpus rights for those tried by American courts, etc. passed by the current adminstration?

Will you close Guantanamo, Baghram, Abu Ghraib, Diego Garcia, or any of the other extra-territorial prison camps being maintained by the US military and Intel establishment?

Do you intend to continue the development of nuclear and other weapons based in outer space?

Obamma has been Swift-Wrighted by Hellary

Wright for president! Write-in campaign for Wright. How about a Nader-Wright ticket?

I would have to say that if the worse we can say about Obama is that his former pastor might be a little off kilter -- you know the Republicans are going have their work cut out for them to take him on. Clinton is done and McCain is going to get hammered this fall.

Not everyone who voted for Obama in the primaries or will vote for him in November (if he's the nominee, as seems likely) is an Obama "cultist", as I used the term. I voted for him in the primary here, and I'll vote for him in November.

But the way so many Obama supporters gleefully joined Obama and mainstream America (from center left to right) in denouncing Wrigth was nauseating. Some of Wright's comments were regrettable or poorly phrased, but he was absolutely correct to say that US foreign policy is often a form of terrorism. Obama specifically denounced this comment, as he has also chosen to ally himself with the most hardline, one-sided supporters of Israel in their kneejerk support for every brutal action Israel takes.

You can vote for Obama as I have, but don't blind yourself to the fact that he has said some pretty shameful things in order to win the Presidency and don't engage in mindless propagandistic attacks on Wright when much of what he said was true. There is no telling what Obama truly believes--that's another "shocking" thing that Wright said, which is that Obama is a politician and says things he doesn't believe to win votes. The funny thing is that some of Obama's progressive supporters say exactly the same thing--Obama is forced to say bad things to win votes. How he's going to change the nature of politics if he does this and then acts outraged when he is called on it is something for the Obama cultists to explain.

It's time for Clinton supporters to look forward to November and do the right thing, coalesce behind Obama. This is the only way the Democrats can take the White House. I am sure Obama's supporters would have done the same if Clinton had the majority of the delegates.

Clinton has to go on a little bit longer to save face and prove that she's the right choice for VP. Personally, I am all for it. An Obama/Clinton ticket would be unbeatable in November.

william street May 6th, 2008 6:26 pm pointed out the most important point of this article. Why should anyone care what Obama's Pastor said be it right, wrong or just outrageous?

(AP) - Former Sen. George McGovern, who backed Hillary Rodham Clinton, is urging her to drop out of the Democratic presidential race.

McGovern said Wednesday he has decided to endorse Barack Obama.

After watching the returns from the North Carolina and Indiana primaries Tuesday night, McGovern says it's virtually impossible for Clinton to win the nomination.

McGovern says he is calling former President Clinton to tell him of the decision and adds that he remains close friends with the Clintons.

Poet -

Your first quoted passage from Rev. Wright - "I have already told Obama should he win the presidency, I'll be coming after you next" - is precisely what has been seized upon, and will be seized upon in the future, by the fear mongerers out to scare the Bejeezus out of white Americans.

You can hear whispered hints and overt rants already: can "we" take the risk that Obama as president would stick to the vague, belated denounciation of his long time pastor that was recently forced out of him, whenever Reverend Wright decides to come knocking at that back channel White House door (as he certainly will)?

Less than two months ago, Barack declared he could no more disown pastor Wright than he could disown the entire black community. Should "we", can "we", trust this flip flop?

Donald -

Nice clarification. Personally, I'm leery of any application of the label "cultist" to supporters of Barack Obama because it is a code word calculated to further inject spooky religious overtones into the campaign as a wedge issue theme.

As to your last point, I agree that politicians often compromise themselves to the point of no return by saying things they don't really believe in order to win votes. I cut Barack Obama more slack than I do most politicians in that regard because he is young, he has largely refrained from attack politics himself, and he is feeling his way through very dangerous and uncharted waters.

A good example of this phenomenon was Obama's unfortunate decision to specifically distance himself from Wright's comments about a link between the 9/11 terrorist attacks and blowback against the history of US militarism and CIA black ops abroad.

It is of course analytically correct to label a Hellfire missle attack as an act of state terrorism, but in my opinion it is also politically counterproductive to publicly do so. Go there, and no matter how you try to nuance your comments, they will be morphed back at you in an attack soundbite implying you said that 3,000 innocent Americans deserved to die. Furthermore, state terrorism should be addressed through international law as an act of war, and terrorism by non-state actors should be addressed as a crime.

Bill from Saginaw

Grant May 6th, 2008 2:40 pm

I looked very carefully at as many of Wrights sermos as I could find, read the transcripts and studied the precepts of Trinity till as someone said, their site was "scrubbed" and it was. A lot of the racist com,ments were removed, sermons disappeared, articles from their paoer disappeared.

All I can say is that no matter how many "good" thiings Wright may have done, there is no doubt in my mind that he is a bigot and racist. That he hates our country.

If I were to accept the arguments being put forth that he is not, then thosec same arguments would prove David Dukes is not a racist.

Its unfortunate, but its the truth.

Rich Griffin May 6th, 2008 1:00 pm

Have a bit of patience. We can't be sure of Obama yet. It will become clear as we get closer to November. JFK didn't have the best record of legislation in the Senate either.

dlnelson7 May 6th, 2008 1:09 pm
"Still no one is looking at the fact that Wright was RIGHT about much of what he said."

When you find someone has told out right lies more than once about his claims, don't you suspect he might NOT be right about other things he claims?

Thomas More:
"When you find someone has told out right lies more than once about his claims, don't you suspect he might NOT be right about other things he claims?"

what outright lies are you referring to?

Bill in Saginaw--

I agree that Obama as a presidential candidate will be in serious trouble if he says the US is guilty of terrorist actions. But does this mean his pastor has to be ritually denounced by Obama supporters when he says so? I don't think so. The interesting thing is that Obama himself acknowledged on Fox News the Sunday before the infamous Monday press conference that Martin Luther King said the same harsh things as his pastor regarding US foreign policy. If MLK were alive today and had connections with Obama, I don't doubt he'd have soon found himself in the same position as Wright. He'd have made the same kind of speech (only much better and without the HIV silliness) about US crimes, and he'd be denounced almost as harshly by some of the same Obama supporters denouncing Wright.

The danger in the Obama phenomenon is that people start attaching their loyalties to a politician and not principles. I don't think Wright was under any obligation whatsoever to suppress what he thinks about US foreign policy--in fact, given the opportunity, his obligation was to say what he thinks. My criticism of Wright is that he mixes his legitimate critiques with nonsense like the HIV crap.

As for "cultist", it strikes me that a great many Obama supporters are as dogmatic as those of Bush. It is meant to be a term both descriptive and dismissive.

starofthesea:

I'm skimming through the comments here, and see one that I not only agree with fully, but also expresses the way I feel about the situation through it's tone. I look up and was happily surprised to see your name as the poster.

The surprise didn't come from me agreeing with you, in fact I agree (or, less often, at least WANT to agree. You're nicer than me, and cynicism effects my views strongly) with every single post I've read of yours. I feel you express yourself eloquently and pointedly, getting to the heart of the matter quickly. Finding that an inspirational post comes from you (I try to read names AFTER I read a post, helps keep out unwanted biases) is not at all out of the ordinary, but your tone was.

Now I don't read every article on CD every day, but I read most on most days, and I've never seen you so angry sounding. It was what -I- would have posted, but I come on a bit strong. I -LIKED- it! I know my opinion is just like any other internet-person's (nice when it's agreeable, but mostly irrelevant), but I posted this whole bit to point out that you have demonstrated exactly the kind of empathic, 'look inward for flaws', 'look to the heart of the matter', multidimensional thinking that is sorely lacking in the echo chamber provided here.

Many people come to CD for a good ole' Ivory Tower, self-congratulatory, bash-another-ideology feel-good session, and it's the same stasis inducing shit that's seen any gains this country has made in the past 60 years fall apart. We need to be more critical of OURSELVES, we already know the neo-conservatives and neo-liberals are out to destroy us all, but maybe the neomunks among us aren't doing it all right either, if you catch my drift. At least I TRY though, by looking at my own ideas as imperfect and incomplete (with the distinct possibility of being completely wrong), testing them constantly. Your post embodies the spirit of the greatest tool for real progress that -I- know of, honest self-criticism.

Thank you so much. Your posts, to me, are really like your username, a shining point against a dim background.

@ Rimpinths: Occam's Razor is a tool of logic, not a "get out of bullsh*t free card". The principle says "Explanations ought not be multiplied BEYOND NECESSITY". Those last two words mean you can't (for example) "explain" rocket flight by an imaginary fairy lifting the rocket up, just because the imaginary fairy is a simpler explanation.

@ Grant: Bravo. You have made the point brilliantly.

@ Everyone: Could we please put an end to this deceitful meme? "Obama sat in the church for TWENTY years and has a close relationship with Wright!!!" This is an intellectually dishonest and bankrupt rationalisation for the Wright/Hagee imbalance. To my knowledge, Obama never got up in front of Wright's congregation after one of those youtube speeches to say "What that guy just said, I agree with it all! Count me in!!" On the other hand, McCain has stood at the podium in front of Hagee's church, and said basically that. It is on tape. You can find it here: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03072008/watch.html.

JOHN MCCAIN: "It's very hard trying to do the lords work in the city of Satan and I'm very grateful to have all of you here.... I'm very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement today. He has been the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement in many areas, but especially, most especially, his close ties and advocacy for the freedom and independence of the state of Israel."

So, please everyone, the next time someone says "b-b-but Obama sat there for TWENTY YEARS!!!", kindly explain the difference between "guilt-by-association" and "guilt-by-self-incrimination" and forward them these quotes by McCain - in which McCain accepts the endorsement of a "Christian" who wants to nuke Iran, who labels himself a Christian-Zionist, who calls Catholicism a "whore religion", who says that the death of thousands in New Orleans was God's retaliation for AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY failure to one-sidedly support Israel enough. How many videos of that did you see on MSNBC? How many times did NPR reporters cluck and fret responsibly over that?

So - I will bow out and let the rationalisations continue. 3, 2, 1... "b-b-but Obama SAT THERE FOR TWENTY YEARS!!!"...

Did I remember to say - well said Grant.

Wright is a crazy old coot to imply 9/11 was the result of America's imperialistic policies; every good and right(wing )Christian knows it was because homosexuals want to have illicit sex in public restrooms and parade around in women's cloths.

Sorry, l have to retract that last comment l forgot it is Republican politicians that have sex in public restrooms and the former NYC mayor who parades around in drag( l guess that is why he has been married so many times, he is trying to find someone his same dress size)

The media is out of control this election has shown us just how far it has gone to dumb-down the public. The recent move by ABC to remove candidates from the debates was outrageous. They are trying to determine the fate of the country and the world being mouthpiece for special interests and the government and to silence dissent.

Media censure is unheard, the FCC should rule for the public but like the EPA its teeth are continually drawn. The media has no right to exclude any politician who is running for office as happened recently with the ABC debate. The only exclusion under the rules used by ABC should apply to a candidate not sitting in public office. The license of ABC would be lifted if the rules were changed but the congress, with the exception of a few pushes for more media conglomeration supported by special interests. I hope that someone picks up on this thought. We have seen the obsession by FOX and CNN, particularly in the form of Wolf Blitzer, and the FOX rabid journalists constantly referring to the Rev. Wright controversy.

Blitzer's bias is clear. He is quick to use every possible negative he can against Obama from the Flag Pin to anything else he could get his mouth around. His support for Clinton has been clear and inappropriate, for CNN to call itself a "fair and balanced" news network. I quote Mr. Nichols: 
" The media pretense of being a fly on the wall has often been preposterous. In the real world of politics — where power brokers and manipulators proceed with the cynical axiom that perception is reality — the fly on the wall is the wall. The political press corps is not observing reality as much as redefining it while obstructing outlooks and constraining public perceptions."

As usual, few are able to see the stampede of the public sheep created by media. I support the change that Obama represents! He is intelligent and wants America once again to be looked upon as a great nation that it could still be and once was. The present "lack of experience" cry of Clinton is preposterous. Could anyone having been near the White house as long as Bush done as badly for the USA? There is experience! However, the discovery of a job approval rating for him at about 28% of the American people speaks volumes about experience. No one could have been as bad as the Bush team! There is experience!

A flight from entrenched American politics is necessary . . .it has ruined this country and made greed the single value of importance. The young people once again embrace hope as a result of the Obama campaign. The Hillary political group and entrenched politics have virtually destroyed America with its policies and exclusive power clubs. She has believed this form government is America.

Clinton recently morphed to the Obama populist message, it was called, "finding her voice" while at the beginning of her stump showing her Madeline Albright, bomb the children image. 
Can anyone truly think that change is unnecessary? I guess not since all the politicos have adopted his message including McCain? The mistakes that Obama may make as president cannot be greater than those of the past seven years. It is also necessary to give him a democratic congress to make certain that the programs that Americans want can be enacted.

Mr. Gore Vidal, has pointedly criticized mainstream media as one of the major problems, and what is wrong with the USA. The corporate media conglomerates control the message and that message is perversely distorted and panders to its advertising portfolio! Wolf Blitzer one of the glaring examples of this criticism and shows clearly those distorted ideas with his reporting, which is nothing more than partially factual opinion dictated by his bosses.

He is a person who has no right to shape public opinion far from being the "fly on the wall" he espouses to be. We must remember flies morph from maggots. He displays ignorance as a virtue for the entire world to see, an example of what is considered, by many in America to be news reporting. If Blitzer were billed as a CNN commentator, at least the public would not be hoodwinked to believe his reporting to be the truth, while it is lack of concern for accuracy, rectitude and fairness to be considered to be news rather than opinion.

_______________________________________________________________

poet----hoping you come back to this thread for my thank you. I struggle like everyone else; try to see the "higher view" whenever possible but the whole Wright bruhaha got under my skin like no other issue has for some time now. I suspect because it was so obvious to me in it's flagrant ugly racist tone.

Thanks for the kind compliments, and I can see that while it may feel like a kind of personal stumble for me to have expressed so much indignation, for others, it may actually be reassuring. Bless you for seeing another side of me and not calling me a hypocrite. I am human, and unapologetically so. (smile)

NEOMONK Sorry, I meant to write neomonk, not poet, in the above post. ThE synapses just aren't firing very well tonite.

Always remember that the "UNITED REPUBLICAN MEDIA/PUBLISHERS/JOURNALISTS" of America will always control what we read and what "images" are televised in this United States of America"
Keep in mind whenever the sins of America against People of Color are chastised/criticized, it's always interpreted as anti-American, mostly by "White American Republicans." They have the power to screen the scene...and...never be seen...while we stay confused in mean green.
Another "revelation"...it is true about AIDS and Genocide ...The Special Virus Cancer Program was created to depopulate the "Black Populations of the World"
You can see and hear Dr. Boyd Graves discuss the origin and cure for HIV/AIDS here...all based on his researched official government documentation...an extraordinary and profound presentation...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8567399552051355527&q=AIDS+CURE:+U.S.+Patent+

starofthesea: :-D

You're welcome. And as far as I'm concerned sometimes it's immoral to NOT get pissed.

What I would love to see? I would love to see Hillary Clinton and Kay Bailey Hutchinson run a neo nazi campaign for the WHite House and win in 2012

http://www.resist.com/

Be very careful Barraack Sadam Hussein Osama

Be Very Careful Jeremiah GOD DAMN YOU!

Be Very Careful Godless Pedophile Race Traitor Priest

There are Christians who do NOT accept a bogus apology from a pedophile priest, may you burn in hell for ever. ALl 3 of you

CLINTON - HUTCHINSON - 2012

WHITE ARYAN RESISTANCE

W. A. R