Resist the Ruling Elite

From www.thomaspainereturns.net

Natural and unnatural disasters abound, weather anomalies explode everywhere, economic havoc swamps the world whilst the ruling elite continue calling the shots. Many things are happening that seem to be random, isolated events, but have they just been planned to appear that way?

The ruling elite control many governments, and they are directing their governments to extinguish people's rights and liberties more and more. They use any excuse to bring about snippets of martial law for various terms.

Technology has reached a state where it can exacerbate natural occurrences and even create artificial meteorological/geological/viral events. These tools are being used to bring about extreme droughts, floods, unprecedented wind/fire/rain/hail/snow storms, earthquakes, diseases, etc., all of which can conveniently be attributed to global warming. The people caught in these epidemics and disasters feel helpless and subsequently look to their respective governments for assistance. Often, it is a case where the culprits appear to be the guardians.

Many world leaders are desperately pursuing economic rescue packages in their respective parliaments. The different groups of the ruling elite have attempted to hide the global recession for many months. Now, right on schedule, they are all exposing the economic crisis that faces the world with a united voice.

Again, with one voice, the world leaders now seek enormous economic rescue packages. Regardless of apparent differences being aired domestically and internationally, their ultimate goal remains similar - to pass huge packages that will draw the whole world into debtor's “prisons”.

The leaders are now stressing the urgency to pass these rescue packages to ward off another 1930s-style Great Depression. They argue that the American President, Franklin Roosevelt, used the Keynesian economic model of huge deficit spending to pull the United States out of the Great Depression. This, they claim, can be done again on a global scale. However, the huge spending outlays by the Roosevelt government did not bring the country out of depression, it was the entry into World War II that did.

The share markets are faltering and have been propped up by the ruling elite to uphold what little value still exists in them. The ruling elite do not want to risk any more of their resources to prop up the markets, so they have called on the governments of the world to do this for them. The governments are answering the ruling elite's calls by passing enormous rescue packages, which will temporarily maintain the illusion of some remaining value in the markets. These packages are not designed to help the ordinary people keep their homes and jobs. Instead, they are rescue packages for the favoured of the ruling elite. The people who put their confidence in the ruling elite's providence will end up disappointed when their common stock becomes practically valueless.

Banks are amongst the most favoured sons and daughters of the ruling elite. Once the plans are in motion, the “rescued” banks will become greedy landpersons who grab higher rents and more properties. The common people will suffer horrendously at the hands of the ruling elite and their banks.

The rescue packages will fail miserably, which is exactly what the ruling elite anticipate. Then, the global recession will develop into global depression. The ruling elite hope that history will repeat, and just as the Great Depression of the 1930s led to World War II, the ruling elite hope that the twenty-first century economic depression will lead to World War III.

If the ruling elite have their way, things will get decidedly worse for the people. Those who understand the situation should resist the ruling elite.

W.B.W. Light-Rider
February 11th, 2009

for AngstOfThePeople :

its very simple... if you believe so strongly and so righteously in attacking Iran then you should get up right now and enlist in the military... YOU can be the one to kill innocent Iranians for hillary/mccain/lieberman... i don't care if you've served previously, not all wars are the same... you want war with Iran, go fight it... put your money where your mouth is or you are a COWARD... talk is cheap, and completely meaningless without conviction/action to back it up... i have a feeling you're in no hurry to go sign up, you just want the faceless mass of "troops" to go do your dirty work for you... thats despicable... anxiously awaiting your "patriotic" enlistment.

Well~BO~, Hillary got her butt stomped in N. Carolina and didn't do so hot in Indiana. I'm the one who is amazed. Obama gave a perfect victory speech and nothing much changed, except Obama gained some in a few more delegate votes. Washmy mouth out with soap.

Nevertheless, Obama cannot beat McCain and Hillary can.

Poor choice of a word for sure. And Iran has not attacked anyone has no atomic weapons and in fact their troops died from poison gas supplied by us to Saddam when Iraq attacked Iran.

sjc_1 May 6th, 2008 5:23 pm
"Those nut jobs in Iran need to be shown the line that they will NOT
cross or else and that is that."

No Iranian government since the revolution has attacked any country or
threatened to attack any country. Compare that with Israel or the USA
which is forever invading, attacking with DU and cluster bombs or
occupying countries which offered them no harm.

Since Israel has threatened to attack Iran on many occasions, and doing
so would be consistent with its past history of aggression, Hillary
should have been asked what would she do, as President if Israel
attacked Iran. I doubt that she would use the words "obliterate
Israel".

The Iranians have never used that sort of language, despite the
deliberate misquotes in iour media. Imagine what would happen
if Iran started using that sort of language now.

@Lucitanian May 6th, 2008 11:29 am

Well put. You spoke for me.

obliterate - reduce to nothingness, destroy completely without leaving a trace.

I really am offended that you label me here in public as an (immoral crook) and a jealous type of a person ~Bo Jangles~.

You base that assumption only on the fact that I prefer Hillary over Obama, whom I have often said is a good man. Being polite and all.

I don't ever insult you like that nor would I, ___ you stupid ignorant asshole and you should apologize to me. How could you permit an immoral jealous crook to kiss your butt?

I admit, I am stupid, always have been, but I'm not crazy and that's the difference betweeen us ~BO jingels~. Hillary will get many super delgates after Kentucky and West Virginia and the rest at the Demo convention and she'll be the Demo nominee. She will get them because the super delegates are not crazy either and they know deep down that Obama cannot possibly beat McCain. She should very- very- seriously, consider Obama as her VP choice.

Sorry Bo, that's the bottom line.

P/S I hear Mich and Fla are going to have another primary election in August. ___ Is that a fact?

kem patricks stupidity that allows for him to let jealousy ruin him is how alot of dumb people do their lives...

now lets get back to the math and the chaulk board only dimwits like kem patrick can't do math...

after tonight obama will have over 165 voter delegate lead on hillary..

next is west virgina hillary may win by 20% but lets give her a 30% win wv has 28 delegates.. a net 7 for hillary... obama lead now is 158..

next is ky do the same she may win by 20% but lets give her a 30% win.. ky has 51 delegates....a net of 15 .. obama lead down to 143..

next is oregon.. obama will win by 12% these whites are upset at the dumb whites that have been voting for clinton they will rebell...oregon has 52 delegates... a net of 11 .. for a lead of 154..

puerto rico is similar to virgin islands where obama had his biggest wn of 92 to 8 % over hillary but lets just say its a tie..

next is sd and montana these are like oregon where their whites are mad at the dumb whites that have voted for hillary they will respond with going for obama .. obama will gain a net of 4 from BOTH of these for a 158 voter delegate lead..

now lets get to florida and mich..... florida hillary won 38 delegates over obama... mich hillary won 18 delegates over uncommitted .....here is the ONLY solution to these 2 primaries first of all there HAS to be a penalty if not the whole primary system will be destroyed and any state can run ahead of any other state first.. cannot work at all.. so the solution will be just like the republicans did.. they penalized HALF..

so with florida hillarys gain of 38 will be a gain of 19... with mich.. the uncommited will go to obama and the 18 delegate lead there will be halved to 9 so hillary would pick up 28 delegates.. and obamas lead in voter delegates would be 130.. so there is just NO WAY .. the race has been over for a long time.. and no way would a party let superdeleagtes over turn the voters...the party would be totally destroyed !!

ONLY crooks and immoral people and stupid people cannot see this...kem patrick is one of this group...

Hillary: shrewd and stupid. Every time she opens her mouth, some stupid remark and lack of insight comes out. REcently her time on fox: God Bless Us Rich folks. This woman is really dumb and we will be in for another 8 years of misery if she is elected.

Heck no, what is she suppose cloak her words in more politically correct phrases like we will "take stern action"? Those nut jobs in Iran need to be shown the line that they will NOT cross or else and that is that.

Hey ~SIDI~, wonder how many of the Hillary supporters in Indiana would say that you're the moron? Apparently you are outnumbered there, at least so far as the polls show. We'll know for sure in about seven more hours. Politics really is interesting and fun.

Hey ~BO Jingles~ have you calculated how the delegate count will be when the Dems allow the Michigan and Forida votes? Do you honestly believe they would tell those state's voters to screw off and allow McCain a CERTAIN and easy win? I don't think the Dems are that stupid. ___ We'll see.

When Hillary offered to pay for a re-vote in those states, Obama fought it. He messed up big time there too. They will be counted and if not, I'll publically kiss your butt in front of the Washington Memorial.

I live here in Indiana. I can't believe how many uninformed morons support Hillary. She is a wolf in sheep's clothing. She will wreck any kind of progressive liberal policies on both the domestic and international fronts. If Hillary gets the nomination, many people will stay home this Nov.

Fraid you're gonna lose the bet ~BO~ Sure hope so. If not, be sure to bathe well and sprinkle a little baby powder on you butt. Okay? BTW, I can kiss with a right foot too, just to let you be advised.

Sorry, but I fear Mr. Obama shit in his mess kit when he outed his good friend and spiritual advisor and Hillary had absolutely nothing to do with that self inflicted screwup. It's gonna cost him big time in Indiana at the very least. He was 5 points ahead there last week and today he's down seven. You see, most of his supporters attend church and they likely got a very loud sermon last Sunday. He will probably take N. Carolina but it may be very close.

right a bet is a bet and kem patrick has bet me that if hillary wins pa.. ohio and texas that she would win the nomination.. and if not he would in puble kiss me butt....

lets see what kind of honest person he is.. or is just a tall taler of lies and untruths...it would not have been so bad if he had bet that on super tuesday's results but still THOSE results said it was impossible for hillary to win.. BUT he went and bet after obama had a streak of many wins.. just plain stupid stuff ...

when someone is stupid they let mental needs interfere with truths and logic... kems jealousy got the best of him and would make him lose his azze in betting...

yes the media is trying to keep it close to feed their cash cow with ratings.. and may have given hillary a few points because of their dishonesty... but still their dishonesty did not show up in any kind of gain for hillary from ohio to pa she won by 10.4 % in ohio and won by 9.2% in pa and in pa those voters were MORE clinton voters... less blacks and more older than ohio... so clearly she went down hill from ohio to pa..

i think obama may pick barbara boxer as VP cause she can get hillarys voters back.. and she endorsed hillary but she voted NO to the war.... so if obama picks her that is the very worst case for the clintons.... then the clintons will be history finally.. all the focus from now on with the democrats will be on obama and boxer....

bill clinton will EXPLODE and hillary will throw out cuss words like crazy about boxer !!!

A bets a bet ~ BO Riverman~, you'll know how it goes in about seven more hours, you're gonna be amazed.

Obliterate, nah... what was the word in "Stranger in a Strange Land" -- "discorporate"?

Now here you are all guiled into endless discussion of:

A STUPID question: "As president what would your response be if Iran attacked Israel with Nuclear Weapons."

Based on a STUPID hypothesis: That, Iran has, or is developing Nuclear weapons, and then would be stupid enough to attack another known nuclear armed country with them.

Supporting a STUPID precept : That Israel, the 4th most armed country in the world, a rogue, nuclear armed, racist theocracy, that has a history of aggressive war and war crimes, and more than a long record of ignoring UN resolutions (the international community), is in some way "threatened" and in peril of its existence.

By a STUPID interviewer : no explanations needed.

To a STUPID candidate : Who actually accepts the previous stupidity to answer with bluster and sabre, saying if she was president her reply would be to TOTALLY OBLITERATE Iran, which as far as I can understand is already being threatened with pre-emptive attack by the USA, including the use of nuclear weapons, in contravention of all NPT and UN agreements, and despite the fact that Iran possesses no nuclear military capacity or program to develop one, based on the US's own intelligence estimates. But, that same STUPID candidate is determined to perpetuate all the stupidity proposed to maintain the FEARS in the minds of a sector of the electorate who for the sake of good manners and argument we will call "STUPID FRIENDS OF ISRAEL".

The only thing more STUPID is my own waste of time reading some of the opinions of people who have been drawn into this canard.

A worthwhile presidential candidate's answer to the question of what would be their response to a nuclear attack by Iran on Israel would be, "Don't ask stupid hypothetical questions which are irrelevant to a real attempt to develop diplomatic and peaceful resolutions to matters of conflict and misunderstanding in that area of the world."

America is no longer a democracy. You are lead by the ring in your nose because you let others do your thinking for you. You cannot tell the difference between truth and lies, or between reality and fiction, the deluded leading the blind, you are conditioned to be entertained by showbiz, with a selection of sculpted puppets playing a script to the cheep seats. You may one day rediscover democracy when your candidates respect the intelligence of the electorate and when the electorate learn to cut their own meat and potatoes on their own plate without the help of their big Momma, the great Industrial-Military-Complex to call the tune, or big brother, MSM (main stream media) to keep the propaganda on track and distracted from the real questions.

You want to see a terrorist state and it's surrogate causing genocide? Study what USA and Ethiopia has done and is doing in Somalia, and know that you should be ashamed very ashamed of your country.
See: Thousands of Somalis Protest Deadly US Air Strike
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/5/thousands_of_somalis_protest_deadly_us

Stop falling for these STUPID games.

wrensis,

You quoted from Clinton's interview with Stephanopolous in an attempt to demonstrate her attractiveness as a candidate, but it has the opposite effect on me. You quoted:

STEPHANOPOULOS: But a lot of our experts look at Iran and they say there is a mass of Iranian people who want to be allied with the United States, want a democracy, and when they heard you say that if Iran attacked Israel with nuclear weapons, we would obliterate Iran, they say that undermines — experts say that undermines exactly the kind of people we want to be encouraging in Iran.

CLINTON: Well, the experts I consult with don't say that, George. Because here's what we're trying to convey. No. 1, we have to do everything possible to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. And I will do that.
It would be destabilizing and dangerous for the world if Iran were nuclear weaponized.
No. 2, because of this split leadership and because of discontent among the people, we want to create some upward pressure that sends a very clear signal to the Supreme Leader and to Ahmadinejad and others, that going forward on nuclear weapons is not a free choice for Iran. And the very idea that they would translate into action some of the most outlandish comments that have been made by some of the Iranian leaders, and even contemplate wiping Israel off the face of the world, means that we've got to make it clear to them that will not go without massive retaliation.

Hillary demonstrated once again that she is a pandering clown who consistently insults any voters who have any clue regarding what is going on. It is highly unlikely that those she consults have such deviant opinions because she consults with mainstream foreign policy experts. But she really loses me, and I am sure many others, when she intentionally mischaracterizes what Ahmadinejad said about destroying Israel, repeating the AIPAC line. And she has repeatedly mischaracterized what Hugo Chavez has said and done, though she surely knows the truth, as she has demonstrated a pattern of severely distoring the truth for short-term political gain, often in a reckless manner damaging to the long-term interests of the nation. Hillary is a central figure in the Democratic Leadership Council and was the lead speaker at the 2005 DLC convention, and she just follows the modus operandi of the DLC -- say anything to dupe non-wealthy Democrats to support you and then turn over the country to the Business Roundtable, the military-industrial complex, and AIPAC and related groups.

She is every bit the blatant liar and political opportunist that Bush and Cheney are, but she has that core base of women who are determined to vote for her no matter what, and that is why she won't go away. It seems that the chickens of identity politics have come home to roost.

Whether Clinton means what she says or is saying it because she believes it is politic to do so, both of those positions make her unacceptable to me. In one scenario she is a warmonger and in the other she is a liar. Gee, what a choice.

The supreme court of corporate stooges has ruled, though, that the people do not elect the president so no worries folks, it's not even in our hands unless we rise up and resist the ruling elite.

kem patrick.. bet me that if hillary won pa .. ohio and texas she would be the winner... he even bet me that he would publicty kiss me butt if she doesn't... he bet this right here on common dreams.. man o man what a pathetic stupid jealous person he is ...

anyone with any sense could see after super tuesday that hillary could not win.... WHY?? one only has to look at the types and ages and geographics of that day to see who was voting for who.. and from that it was shown that obama will be the winner.... and no chance for hillary..

now what did the media try to do??? they wanted it to stay close for more ratings and more money for them.. so they focused on less horrible news about obama with the pastor and comments about knowing how some are bitter ... these are NOTHING as horrible as what they could and should focus on with hillary .. BUT if they did it would be a blowout and they would have lost all the false excitement that they put into play.... with all their one sided gross immoral reporting they may have swayed about 4 %.... but now its over .. as zogby with their very last pollling on indiana and north carolina shows..

zogby.. had clinton winning by 10% in their last polling before the pA election.. clinton won by 9.2% so in their polling there may be another 1% going for obama....... their last polling with indiana has obama winning by 2% and in NC by 14%...

now the media is dishonestly trying to bring hillary support..... even with all that... ohio hillary won by 10.4% and she went down in pA with winning by 9.2% even tho PA has less blacks than ohio and are older both favoring clinton over ohio but instead she went down and even with the dishonesty of the media....

just ALOT of dishonesty with politics and with kem patrick just alot of stupidness and which that ALLOWS his jealousy to take control of him... and makes him lose all bets and lose his azzzze...

If I were an Iranian I would be digging a deep hole in the ground to protect my family.

Remember that Bush said that if the U.S. is attacked again then it will be assumed that Iran is responsible. Now Hillary threatens to wipe out the entire population

As an American I can only be thoroughly ashamed of the crudity and viciousness of the U.S. president and political candidates.

Our approved choices are:
Hillary - threatens to obliterate Iran
McCain - 100 years in Iraq + torture
Obama - token reduction in troops, bomb Pakistan, intensify war in Afghanistan

Vote third party or don't vote.

Look - it's just going to take a very few more election cycles and more severe economic and political problems for the U.S., but we will eventually elect a sane president. Ten years ago the third parties received typically 1%; now we're up to 5 or 6 %. Maybe in 2012 we'll muster 15% and then we will have a little power.

This woman is bad news for America, not just Democrats. I have been concerned that the "Dims" would somehow find a way to lose what should be a slam-dunk election for them.

And here she is. If the "Dims" pick this woman as the democractic nominee, they will slam-dunk this election right into the toilet.

I thought her strong point was being an advocate for children. Hmmm, OBLITERATE a country. There are babies, toddlers, other children, Moms, Dads and other people in Iran. What a monster Hillary has turned out to be. Well I should have known. After all she allowed her husband to fuck over all those women as gov. then as Prez. all right in front of Chelsea, her own child.

AngstOfThePeople:

Nope, you're not even close to being an angst of THE PEOPLE, but more like a shill for THE MILITARY-CORPORATE-MEDIA COMPLEX!
Go peddle your crap elsewhere fascist.

Most armchair warriors/hawks and paper tigers are cowards at heart; they are more than glad to let others get killed on their behalf. Reading above, I see some who call Iran's leadership psychopathic without saying anything about our own--the mote/beam dichotomy? About CD: the bias against Clinton is evident. If she wins (some would say steals) the Dem nomination, will Dem's really stay home and/or vote for McCain? It's true that Hillary seems to be more establishment than Obama, and that may be because she has been in the mix of them longer. Even so, I'd rather have her than McInsane.

Are these politicians really so frecking stupid? Do they really think that the US would survive a nuclear holocaust? And these idiots want to run a country? Let them run an asylum for the insane, which is where they belong.

I thought this link was worth sharing:-

Bush authorizes terrorist activities against Iran:-

http://www.counterpunch.org/andrew05022008.html

amacd.... You don't end a war by cutting off the funding! That would seriously hurt our precious military personal, would you have them go without food, pay, bullets, equipment?

NO! You would support them while the war can be slowly and safely wound down, did you notice 70 is considerally lower than 108, thats because some military will have come home safely next year, if under Democratic leadership, thus they won't need as much funding.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: Israel has asserted that every Jew anywhere is automatically eligible to immigrate into Israel and thereby gain citizenship. Does anyone know: Has the immigration requirement been abandoned?

LILLULU: You've only known *several* dumb college grads? Lucky you.

A new low for Hillary Clinton. I didn't know it was possible, but she did it. First she voted For the War, then was against it. Then she told us how she ducked bullets. That was some attack she was under by that little girl, then Obama says something she can jump on and she's suddenly the coal miner's daughter (whose worth $106,000,000), and now she's willing to say she'll blow Iran to Kingdom come.......wow, back to the beginning - pro war.....how about that!!!!

Well Hillary doesn't let the facts get in her way. Unlike Israel, Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons. Yes I know she was asked a hypothetical question, but a stupid hypothetical question at that. Why would Iran assure its own destruction in attacking Israel? The US need not get involved since Israel has hundreds of nuclear missiles and therefore is capable of "obliterating" Iran and probably several other countries all by itself.

These people; Hillary, McCain and to a lesser extent even Obama are all bat shit crazy. Regardless of who wins the election the American people will lose.

Okay, Okay, so and so said this and that, blah, blah, blah. I get the disagreement. Here is my question. If weapons inspectors have to go into Iran, why do they not go into Israel? Why do they not go into the United States? I understand the whole superpower hegemonic theory, zero sum game theory, chaos theory, etc. Clearly, the United States and Israel want to play the game according to their own rules, which are subject to change at any nanosecond. But if there is such thing as a "level playing field" then why are they excluded from inspection? My guess would be global manifest destiny, no?

Hey ~Riverdude~, you're stuttering again, three identicles there. You still on drugs, that month off here didn't help? As long as people such as you attack me ~Bojangles~ or ~Riverman~, I feel okay about living here.

Hey, talking about Hillary winning Texas, Ohio and Penna, aren't you glad you lost the other bet I made with you? Tell ya what ~BO~, this race is still on and if Hillary gets the Michigan and Florida primary votes and wins either N.Carolina or Indiana, she'll be the nominee come convention time.

Now if the Florida and Michigan delegations have NO votes, then McCain is our next president, even if he picks Jeb Bush or Julieano for his running mate. And he might do that. Whomever he picks, the Flordia and Michigan dems will mostly stay home for the general election and McCain is our nest Bush. Seriously think about that ~Rivernut~. Get your calculator out and do the math for us if you're sober enough to read it.

staying_sane_in_an_insane_world thanks for helping me to stay sane in an insane world. Unfortunately, this is one of the most insane countries in the whole insane world where, every four years, the majority of us are convinced that participating in this shameless electoral farce will lead to anything but the same old conclusion. Every four years the corporatocracy serves up a few "fresh faces" and, after a few interminable months of political brainwashing, we end up fighting with each other over who is our favorite candidate. The rest of us wrack our brains trying to pretend that it will make a difference if we vote for Coke or Pepsi or even, lord help us, no one at all! The powers that be must be laughing their fat white asses off.

Why on Earth would I be jealous of Obama ~RIVERMAN-BOJANGLES~? Never, ever in my entire life, have I betrayed a friend, or anyone else.
Reverand Wright never said a thing I heard him say that wasn't true, except perhaps his words about AIDS. Why would Obama condemn his good friend of 20 years, his advisor and pastor, for speaking the truth. All Obama had to say was, "I do not agree with everythng my friend and pastor says." But apparently political expediency faulted his line of thought and moral judgement.

It isn't as if after a close association with Reverand Wright, that Obama had NEVER heard those words spoken by his close friend previously, although "he says" now that he never had. What else would he do, to gain the office of the presidency? __ I do wonder?

Jealous of Obama? Nope, never! I do admire his marvelous speaking skills and how he has progressed in his life, a college grad, a lawyer and all. He's a good man. He does have a few character flaws I do not admire. I never am jealous of anyone ~Riverman~. You assume as usual. Jealousy is as bad as pride in my eyes.

voting for the war was also voting for yelling to the world america is a fraud on democracy by going against world democracy the UN.. the whole world was wired for the very first time and saw this......now we have enemies of the whole world..

the media should not be silent on this big time harm to america when hillary and mccain voted against world democracy and voted for war for oil for the corporate robber barons..

voting for the war was also voting for yelling to the world america is a fraud on democracy by going against world democracy the UN.. the whole world was wired for the very first time and saw this......now we have enemies of the whole world..

the media should not be silent on this big time harm to america when hillary and mccain voted against world democracy and voted for war for oil for the corporate robber barons..

voting for the war was also voting for yelling to the world america is a fraud on democracy by going against world democracy the UN.. the whole world was wired for the very first time and saw this......now we have enemies of the whole world..

the media should not be silent on this big time harm to america when hillary and mccain voted against world democracy and voted for war for oil for the corporate robber barons..

Actually my wife and I are beginning to like the word "obliterate". It's good to increase one's word power. We have thousands of oak trees here on our property and on the BLM land which surrounds our hidden valley. There are numerous Bark scorpions, which are the deadliest. Last night my wife detected one on the living room wall, and since she's scared shitless of them, she called out to me to come obliterte it.

I'm scarder than she of the sneaky little critters, but being a boy and having balls and all, I pretend to not be. So I got the Hoover out, attached the suction hose and wand and sucked the poor thing up into the motor's high speed fan and OBLITERATED it. ___ Haaaaaa, haaaa, haaaaaa, got em.

Then Ev said it, "Wow, Kem, you obliterated it." ___ Pretty neat, she has learned how to say it and spell it correctly and neither one of us went to Yale, but we're getting smarter every day.

kem patrick is a troll that lives in this forum.... and is so jealous of obama he cannot see straight..

he has such low logic and that he bet that if hillary won pa.. ohio and texas she would win.. his low logic and stupidity about math made him make that outrageous wrong prediction..

he could not see the facts behind the super tuesday voting which proved the race was over and hillary could not win....even now with the media TRYING to make it close for ratings she still cannot win..

the media focusing on obamas pastor and not on the outright lies that hillary tells about nafta and the sniper fire and her vote yes to this war and obama said no.. them doing that just shows the media is TRYING to make it closer to help their own ratings ...

hillary is just trying to lower obama so that the clintons can have more leverage and power.... the clintons have proven that they are the most corrupt politicians in all of american history..

why don't the media talk about the OTHER big harm to america when politicians voting for the war .. they also showed the world america was a fraud on democracy.. this is the BIG news that the media is ignoring... and this would then make it impossible for hillary or mccain to get any votes.... so the media is silent and instead brings up what obamas pastor says.... totally outrageous and harmful for the country..

americans NEED to KNOW what is harming !!

~USRCJP~ Obama condemmed her use of the word "obliterate" on Sunday's Tim Russert happy hour. Then he said the same thing she did without using that horrible word.

Yeah vote for Ralph Nader, McCain might need those votes.

Has Obama unequivocally condemned Clinton's remarks concerning Iran? I haven't heard that he has but would be glad to be corrected by Obama supporters.

If he hasn't, more the reason to vote for Nader.

"The human and moral cost is rarely factored into the economic and political equations which generate the decisions to bomb, ravage and torture sovereign nations. These decisions are focused solely on foreign policy and the agenda of global capitalism."

So well said, davemj May 5th, 2008 8:58 pm.

The truth is, Hilary is just representing her class interests.

It is not in the interest of the working class of Iran or the working class of the US, to destroy one another.

And the BLEAT goes on. Where have you been ~EUPHOTIC~? Have you bothered to read ANY of the others coments here? Do you disagree with any specific posts? Please do tell us, exactly where and when, Clinton ever threatened to attack anyone?

She replied to a hypothetical question, with a hypothetical answer. There was no threat to nuke Iran. She didn't say, as as some have written during the past few days, that she was going to nuke Iran if she is the president.

I am absolutely amazed at what some "progressives" are writing here lately at Common Dreams. It's truley amazing. It is little wonder that some of my friends and neighbors have stopped visiting this site. They believe there are far too many who post comments here now who don't even show any reasoning, or a sense of fairness and honesty.

How are the rest of us in the world supposed to interpret this?

That the overwhelming majority of American "adults" are emotionally retarded.

Here's the thing that upsets me most. Clinton threatens to "totally obliterate" a nation--its people, insitutions, art, animals, plants...basically, she threatens to commit holocaust in the sense used in the Hebrew Bible. Or to use more modern language, she threatens to commit genocide.

Has she been censured by Congress? Has she been forced to withdraw from the presidential race? On the contrary, we hear that she's gaining further support from the populace.

What is this? Could someone please explain to a non-American what this is about? I'm assuming that she's trying to show that she's "presidential;" she's "the right material" for a president. That even though she's a woman she's willing to commit genocide and is therefore fit to occupy the most powerful position in your country and in the world.

How are the rest of us in the world supposed to interpret this? It isn't just Clinton that comes out of this smelling badly.

~DAVEMJ~ Would the words, "We would do likewise and use muclear weapons on them" have suited you and everyone?

Hillary didn't do as Obama did and give a vieled reply. Where he said words to the effect, that as far as military action in that regard goes, "ALL options would be on the table". Meaning exactly what? Not really an answer that any could easily criticize,__ very political.

Neither Obama nor Hillary EVER said they would attack Iran and nuke them. They both have said they would use strong measures if Iran ever used atomic weapons against Isreal. Hillary didn't beat around the bush with her reply, she was perfectly frank and honest about it. But both have the same opinion on the issue and both have stated that fact.

There is no issue except for the word "obliterate" and if any president, Obama, McCaim, Bush or Hillary nuked Iran in retaliation, they could "obliterate" them and that's what Hillary said. Lord help us all, we COULD indeed obliterate any country and that's a fact and to make an issue of a WORD my friend indeed is 'semantics'.

A word of the SAME origin, is the brief defination of semantics and when people decide to play with words it may be termed semasiology, or an attempt to prove a point by PLAYING with words.

"It's a long step from saying to doing"
~Cervantes~ ____ Don Quixote.

I usually try to stay away from political nonsense, but the way you guys let that troll yank you all around is just plain STUPID. We can't have a civilized debate about important subjects (thank the gods this isn't one) if you allow ignorant and/or abusive trolls to destroy this site.

This site is important to many people who never comment, but need some moral support in this inverted Manichean (up-is-down/black-and-white) world we're living in today. I come here mostly to listen - unless you really rattle my cage - as I've done for years (without comment for a very long time).

We don't need trolls here - we can just tune in to MSM - TV or AM radio - if we want to catch up on the latest steaming pile of BS. So please don't respond to trolls, don't encourage them, and PLEASE don't try to 'educate' them - they like being ignorant, sadistic, vicious, cruel, etc - they get off on it. (I know because the fascist trolls took over the GOP and made 'conservative' - which I am - a dirty word.)

I finally got tired of the troll-war so quit reading the comments - which I'm sure others did as well. That's what the trolls want - don't let them defeat a great bunch of decent people reaching out to each other in civil debate. Just ignore them.

Clinton supporters will not vote for that liar Obama and his scummy followers, and Obama supporters will not vote for that liar Clinton and her scummy supporetrs, which is why that liar McCain will win the election.

MORE AMERICAN HYSTERIA!

Iran isn't going to nuke any country. Americans think the whole world outside their borders is filled with suicidal maniacs.

By implicitly supporting Hillary's lie that Iran would consider nuking Israel if it had a nuclear weapon, Obama has shown he is not fit for being president of the most militarily powerful nation on Earth.

Americans always harp on about Pearl Harbor. But it was not much of an attack. Certainly nothing to make a big fuss over. London endured the Blitz during WW2. Unlike Pearl Harbor, that was a heavy and sustained attack ON CIVILIANS - day and night FOR 11 WEEKS! - that devastated a third of the city, and destroyed 1.4 million homes.

Americans have never suffered like that, have never been attacked on any scale worth mentioning.

Pearl Harbor was a non-event, used, today, as justification for every atrocity America commits. Woe are us Americans, we suffered Pearl Harbor. BOO HOO! Can we murder another one million civilians now?

The world is tired of looking at America and seeing nothing but radicalism and insane exaggeration.

If any country is going to use nukes, it will be America - for a second time!

Good work Kem, keeping the truth on the record. What we need obliterated is this ridiculous, foul, bull**t about a quick answer to a stupid hypothetical question that was asked to see if it would draw something to go ape over.

If Obama approves of you Hillary haters, I would not vote for him under any circumstances, as the comments show a complete lack of sense and decency.

If you want to vote for the man in the moon instead of Clinton, go right ahead but spare the rest of us the mean, totally off the wall comments over a non-issue that could not happen for years, if ever.

Come on, Pilkington, you bloody limey.

You people had your Margaret Thatcher slaughtering Argentinians with abandon, and now you want to deny us our Brunhildary (Initially known as a liberal ruler of great political acumen, she became notorious for her cruelty and avarice).

After all, Hillary could be the first American woman to break through the 'obliteration ceiling'.

She truly has it in her to be our first distaff dictator --- and you Brits want to take away all our fun.

Lets get Bill back. The only thing he ever obliterated was a jar of peanut butter and some bananas. Oh, and the reputations of some easy women.

US as a nation is the fruit of the poisoned tree of European colonialism. Americans have no other identity other than being the descendents of European colonisers. As "colonials" they see themselves "superior" to native peoples not only in the US but everywhere in the world. At the same time they are reviled by peoples around the world. They keep trying to prove that they are not the descendents of the European "rejects" and in that process prove all the more that they are!!!! The behaviour of the "rejects" is seen in Cho's rants and shooting in the Virginia Tech. This behaviour is widespread in the American universities, schools, malls, media, and movies.

The behaviour of the "rejects" shown by the rants and wild shooting of Cho is seen in Hillary's rant (which is common behaviour in the elected presidents of the US)of "obliterating Iran". This behaviour is expected of all the elected political representatives by the majority of the Americans!!!! One of the main expected characteristics of the US president is the ability "to shoot wildly" at the innocent peoples in the world.

Well, there it is...tow the US foreign policy line, buy the products and consume the culture. Hate our enemies, support our allies, and bow to the only remaining superpower.

Why is Ahmadinejad, Iran and the clerical leadership such a threat to the US? How much is proximity to oil, and how much is pro-Israeli policy?

If he's enemy #1 (now that Sadaam's regime is "obliterated" and Osama bin Laden is fricking Houdini), what is the criteria and who else is on the Obliteration Watch List? North Korea? Malaysia? Pakistan? India? France? I do not think this question is as facetious as it reads.

It looks to me that Bush is now in drag, looking a bit like Hillary! I mean, please, People of the USA with an IQ over 110, you can't let this "person" win 1600 Pennsylvania Ave!

pontificatinpapa,
Thank you for posting the link to Bush's long view of his legacy.
We are SO not supposed to see the secret orchestration happening behind the scenes.
It is a misnomer to talk about Gulf Wars I & 2, just like it was a misnomer to talk about
World Wars 1 & 2 -- the 2's are the logical successors of the 1's, from the orchestrators' perspectives

It's just as little ones who can be deluded into thinking 'the war is over / mission accomplished'

Does anyone seriously think that this war has been over for the Iraqis for any time since 1991 ? Bombed water treatment plants, bombed power plants, depleted uranium dust, and the harsh punishment of sanctions. All through the 1990's. The 2003 invasion and since has only been an acute phase of a MUCH longer chronic war.

Her interview with George Stenphanopoulis on "The Week" was very informative and complete, proporting vigorous diplomacy to find out who was controlling Iran. Anyone who wishes to see her complete explanation should review this part of the actual transcript.

And with respect to Iran, I have advocated vigorous diplomatic engagement. You see, we don't even really understand exactly how decisions are made in Iran, because we have been so isolated from Iran. They have an elected leadership with Ahmadinejad, who's all over the TV, but I believe most decisions are made by the clerical leadership, the Supreme Leader, that actually is responsible for the Revolutionary Guard.
And we need to have a very intense diplomatic engagement with Iran, and I've advocated that for several years, in order for us to try to manage whatever they might do.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But a lot of our experts look at Iran and they say there is a mass of Iranian people who want to be allied with the United States, want a democracy, and when they heard you say that if Iran attacked Israel with nuclear weapons, we would obliterate Iran, they say that undermines -- experts say that undermines exactly the kind of people we want to be encouraging in Iran.
CLINTON: Well, the experts I consult with don't say that, George. Because here's what we're trying to convey. No. 1, we have to do everything possible to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. And I will do that. It would be destabilizing and dangerous for the world if Iran were nuclear weaponized.
No. 2, because of this split leadership and because of discontent among the people, we want to create some upward pressure that sends a very clear signal to the Supreme Leader and to Ahmadinejad and others, that going forward on nuclear weapons is not a free choice for Iran. And the very idea that they would translate into action some of the most outlandish comments that have been made by some of the Iranian leaders, and even contemplate wiping Israel off the face of the world, means that we've got to make it clear to them that will not go without massive retaliation.

There is something wonderful about a middle aged white woman with a protruding behind in a pant suit mouthing threats to annihilate a muslim country.

IF, and I do mean -IF- there was a nuclear detonation in iran, think what all that lovely radioactive fallout would to to about 8400 square miles of oil fields. Who in their right mind would be so psychotically desperate to work in a radioactive hellhole extracting oil to fuel the further murderous depredations of Corporate America?

Not to mention the drifting fallout reaching Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Thailand, Myanmar/Burma, Indonesia, Bali... Australia... HAWAII and eventually..... ( kettle drum roll please)...

CALIFORNIA!!!

That's right folks.

You (USA or Israel) nuke Iran, Mickey Mouse and his pals glow in the dark! WOO HOO! Party Time!!

We would never "obliterate" Iran. If Irana hit Israael with a nuclear bomb, or even non-nuclear, before we had a chance to think Israel would use some of its arsenal of 200 bombs and no more Iran. Iran knows this.
But there's a silver lining. It's possible that Pakistanwould react, wipe out Israel, and enough bombs would go off to cause a nuclear winter. And, voila! the problem of global warming would be solved. Crazy? You bet.

To wonder6789,

Finally, after countless posts, counter-posts and circular arguments (many enjoyable to read), someone has focused in on the true impact of Mrs. Clinton's answer to what is a very challenging question.

Semantics does count in this debate, and her choice of the work "obliterate" was an offense to human dignity and grossly unworthy of a anyone, let alone a candidate for important office.

The human and moral cost is rarely factored into the economic and political equations which generate the decisions to bomb, ravage and torture sovereign nations. These decisions are focused solely on foreign policy and the agenda of global capitalism. Mrs. Clinton was foolish enough to let her guard down, showing everyone what the clown has on underneath the makeup, rainbow wig and floppy shoes - she is a policy wonk, a careerist politico who, for all her talk of change, represents so little change you have to start questioning the sanity of even voting.

I've seen this dual citizenship list a number of times, without verification. Is it possible that many of these people merely have two passports, one for Israel and one for the rest of the world? This is very common, even among casual travelers.

I don't buy the whole "zionists control the world" thing, that was a Nazis rallying cry and I don't see why any progressives should adopt it. On the other hand, it does seem that a lot of our foreign policy revolves around keeping Israel protected, without question or compromise. Of course, so much of what this criminal administration tells us is lies, and they have been known to leak pre-emptive lies which they can then refute (the Dan Rather Bush NG AWOL papers, eg) that I'd really need more proof of 200 Israeli moles in the Bush administration.

I feel obligated to run it once a day as there may still be some who have missed it:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1028-01.htm

~RAY~ ___ If you're going to pray to God to get rid of Hillary, how about expanding the list and include a few others in Washington DC. Quite a few, you may be praying for a long time though.

Oh, BTW, before you commense your prayers, ___ I'm not in Washington DC.

And another uneducated comment has now been posted that Hillary is threatening to start another war.

That's your opinion ~IilluIu~ Bush barely passed and Hillary was a 3.99 grade average. College don't give anyone common sense or decency. I was making a point that college grads will at times speak with the use of seldom used words. Lots of college grads are over-educated idiots.

Is Hillary any more a hawk than Obama? Or is Obama actualy more so? Check their actual records and you may be very surprised. Lieberman is actually the one who really wants us to attack Iran and he's deep in both McCain's and Obama's pockets. Check it out,___ or deny it.

Hillbilly McBush is winning over uneducated white trash by threatening to start another war. Dear God, please make her go away.

Hillary is "highly educated, went to Yale (so did George Bush, and I'm not impressed with his intellect), intelligent, blah blah blah."

I've known several dumb college grads and some very intelligent people from poor countries who didn't have the opportunity to go to college.

Does Hillary the Hawk have common sense and a good heart? Is she kind and compassionate? Is she merciful and wise?

NO, she is not. What's more, she wants to prove that she's tougher than a man. She should never be in the White House, and neither should McInsane.

Great post ~Paul M. Smith~. So is Lieberman a duelly and who's his side kick?____ McCain is. And sadly so is Obama, only they haven't been so obvious since Obama started to campaign for the presidency. After all, Lieberman won't hold hands with both of them at the same time and McCain obviously needs his close advice more than Obama does.

no barelyhuman, ill talk as i see fit.

Okay, okay, calm down. If the Arabs in their huts on the other side of the planet are scaring you with their big mean words, go ahead and talk to the evil liberals on the Internet like you're a tough guy if that's what makes you feel safer. I just won't take what you say so seriously.

RE: toomuchsun May 5th, 2008 4:39 pm
"sung425, that's a sobering list. Do you have proof as to the dual citizenship?"

toomuchsun, I've seen sung425's list before, and even a longer one with 200 high level administration names on it, but don't know the entire truth of the list. One thing I do know of, and most important, is Michael Chertoff, is claimed to be a dual Isreali/US citizen. Does this make sense? As the saying goes, "No man can serve two masters". How could someone be placed in the position of head of Department of Homeland Security with such an obvious conflict of interest? Another Bushism similar to, "Doin' a heck of a job, Brownie", and you see where that got us.

Clinton has three fatal flaws: #1 she is happily and unapologetically taking money from special interests and lobbies; #2 she voted for the War in Iraq (and she's unapologetic about that); and #3 she will unapologetically obliterate a country full of innocent people who have no control over what their leadership does. You know, that white man who used to be in the diplomatic corp who made the statement of "chickens coming home to roost" will have another reason to add to the list if Clinton ever gets to be president and fulfills flaw #3.

RE: AngstOfThePeople May 5th, 2008 3:43 pm

"At the end of the day, my interest was mostly social - I didnt want to give up more money in taxation to a government that wasnt actually kicking any services to me and I have a lot of philosophical differences as to societal ills such as crime and how it should be handled."

I find your statement rather hypocritical, Angst, since by your own words you explain you are not as concerned with social as financial. Just consider yourself fortunate you presently have no need of a 'social' safety-net (that requires an investment NOW in sound financial planning rather than when too late), but sometime in the future you could find yourself in circumstances (just like an ever increasing number of Americans) when you WILL. Just because some needy people in the lower income brackets get something you don't does this mean you have to be jealous?...or mean & angry about it? How about a little pride at being magnanimous or noble?

Relating back to the article at hand (and your stated concern for finance above people) do you realize, due to what the misadventure in Iraq is costing us in taxes to support a bloated military budget, the actual cost of a gallon of gas is closer to $8 than $4, but much of this is really a 'hidden' tax imposed by this administration on a public with a majority who strenuously object to this 'blood & treasure for oil' fiasco? Contrary to Republican 'spin' (AKA lies) most people don't realize with this massive tax increase, since the "Borrow & Spend" neo-CON machine has propagandized a very foolish America, it is not the current taxpayer who will suffer most, but future generations this massive fraud has been foisted off on.

If you had done some serious un-biased research, instead wasting time spewing ideological fiction rather than fact based statements on this thread, you might have discovered that Zionists, whether Isreali or American, Jewish or Christian, are the real international criminals/enemies, having originated the concept of terrorist attacks on civilians, numerous 'false flag' operations fomenting conflict around the globe, and continually soaking billions of un-necessary tax dollars from Americans in order to not only arm Isreal, but to play the part of doing Isreal's dirty work by acting as the 'big bully' toward nations surrounding that small nation representing a rather miniscule percentage of world population.

Have you considered that instead of the current $8 gasoline costs us, if we attack Iran the price could go up possibly to twice that amount? For someone like yourself, predisposed to financial over humanitarian concerns, I would think you would include this in your equation. Hillary's 'obliterate' comment was as dangerous internationally as McCain's ill considered "Bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran" juvenile quip. What does it matter how leaders posture having big cajones if they don't have common sense, non-ideological driven facts, or intelligence to match?

One more item you brought up that must be countered with facts rather than just fiction. The CIC (Correctional Industrial Complex), with over $50 billion of taxpayer money sucked out of Americans' pockets yearly, is about being a money making enterprise rather than a system to administer justice. A very high percentage of law breakers wouldn't be so if they just had a decent income/job, but we waste all that money just locking people up instead, much of that being racist or (lack of) income driven.

Many of your comments, Angst, seem to be more about being a problem, rather than looking at facts & offering solutions, so why are you even on this site. To be frank, you remind me of the Indian character in the movie "Little Big Man" called a 'contrary', who always looked at the world to be faced in a backward (regressive) viewpoint than a forward (progressive) one.

"Totally Obliterate":
every child,
every woman,
every old person,
every person struggling under the oppressive theocracy and aspiring to live in freedom,
every city,
every village
every house,
every museum,
every school,
every mountain,
every river,
every valley,
every tree,
every animal,
every living creature,
GOD BLESS AMERICA

Well ~WTF~ excellent point. And thank you for the decent clarification.

Can you imagine yourself being on a tough and tiring, rigerous campaign and not ever using a word that could have been neglected or replaced with another?

Hillary is a college grad, and then on to Yale Law school, she's highly educated, the only student to ever have been allowed to speak at a Wesley College graduation ceremony. She is very intelligent. Those type of people sometimes use BIG words.

I do not recall in my enitre 72 years, ever using the word "obliterate". Didn't even know how to spell it, much less speak it. Obama said the same things a different way,___ diffrent WORDS. ___ Therefore, he's prepared to be the president and she isn't?

"Feeble deeds are vainer far than words"._______
_______~Benjamin Desraeli~

To Sung425
Thanks for the list of dual citizens...USA and Israeli.
If you are right, the apparent neo-con coup of our country is actually a coup by a foreign country.

hmmm what would i do if iran nuked israel? i would do a dance that made chad johnsons touch down celebrations look mild by comparison.

Hillary Clinton is an evil "C**T" I cannot believe that anyone will still support her after the nasty campaign she has run. She has all but admitted that she would rather Mccain win then Obama...I mean what the "F" .... I am beginning to doubt she's even a human being.....Marvin K Mooney will you please go now!!!!!

QUESTION TO HILLARY : WHAT ARE ISRAEL'S NUMEROUS NUCLEAR BOMBS FOR IF IT CAN'T DEFEND ITSELF ALONE???

Hillary the Hawk also has Venezuela, another oil country, in her crosshairs. She's dangerous to world peace.

Yeah, don't vote for either Hillary Or Obama, vote for McCain.

Orrrr, vote for RON Paul, McKinney or Nader, or write in Kucinich.___ McCain will love you for those votes and will give you God's blessings when the senile idiot bomb, bombs Iran.

That's whatwe need, a Naval "Tail-Hook" avaitor in the White House. Once a tail-hooker, ALWAYS a tail-hooker. Machoism is alive and well.

KEM, my intention was not to imply that you are out of control - far from it.

However, it does illuminate how easily people can find offense in a single word/expression (in this case, "settle down"). Perhaps now you can understand why some people find offense with the word "obliterate".

I do think Obama suggested it also ~Divine Mauler~. He just wisely didn't use that awful "politically" incorrect word. Of course he was second up to bat for the question.

Politics is almost as much fun as posting comments here at C/D.

AngstOfThePeople May 5th, 2008 1:39 pm

I don't see what choice we have BUT to take a strong stance with Iran. Iran DOES threaten Israel (and the US)
================

OK you Angst&%#wiseguy. tell me how many countries has Iran invaded during the last 50 years. Now count up how many US has.

Clueless Americans like you are the root cause of the current state of our country.

I did attempt to correct the mis-spelled word ~SETTLE~, two minutes after I posted, but the screen says I'm not alowed to edit, because I passed the 30 minute time period.

I know time is short and we should stop and smell the roses, but I didn't realize it was that short.

Okay, this finally did it. No regrets for suggesting killing millions of people is all right. Give me a break. I'm voting for Obama because these war mongering politicians are nuts.

amacd May 5th, 2008 12:28 pm

You got it man. No vote for the complicit Dem party .. doesn't matter Hillary or Obama.