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Beware The Simplifiers
I once asked a reporter back from Vietnam, "Who's telling the truth over there?" "Everyone, he said. "Everyone sees what's happening through the lens of their own experience." That's how people see Jeremiah Wright. In my conversation with him on this broadcast a week ago and in his dramatic public appearances since, he revealed himself to be far more complex than the sound bites that propelled him onto the public stage. Over 2000 of you have written me about him, and your opinions vary widely. Some sting: "Jeremiah Wright is nothing more than a race-hustling, American hating radical," one viewer wrote. A "nut case," said another. Others were far more were sympathetic to him.
Many of you have asked for some rational explanation for Wright's transition from reasonable conversation to shocking anger at the National Press Club. A psychologist might pull back some of the layers and see this complicated man more clearly, but I'm not a psychologist. Many black preachers I've known - scholarly, smart, and gentle in person - uncorked fire and brimstone in the pulpit. Of course I've known many white preachers like that, too.
But where I grew up in the south, before the civil rights movement, the pulpit was a safe place for black men to express anger for which they would have been punished anywhere else; a safe place for the fierce thunder of dignity denied, justice delayed. I think I would have been angry if my ancestors had been transported thousands of miles in the hellish hole of a slave ship, then sold at auction, humiliated, whipped, and lynched. Or if my great-great grandfather had been but three-fifths of a person in a constitution that proclaimed, "We the people." Or if my own parents had been subjected to the racial vitriol of Jim Crow, Strom Thurmond, Bull Connor, and Jesse Helms. Even so, the anger of black preachers I've known and heard about and reported on was, for them, very personal and cathartic.
That's not how Jeremiah Wright came across in those sound bites or in his defiant performances this week. What white America is hearing in his most inflammatory words is an attack on the America they cherish and that many of their sons have died for in battle forgetting that black Americans have fought and bled beside them, and that Wright himself has a record of honored service in the Navy. Hardly anyone took the "chickens come home to roost" remark to convey the message that intervention in the political battles of other nations is sure to bring retaliation in some form, which is not to justify the particular savagery of 9/11 but to understand that actions have consequences. My friend Bernard Weisberger, the historian, says, yes, people are understandably seething with indignation over Wright's absurd charge that the United States deliberately brought an HIV epidemic into being. But it is a fact, he says, that within living memory the U.S. Public Health Service conducted a study that deliberately deceived black men with syphilis into believing that they were being treated, while actually letting them die for the sake of a scientific test. Does this excuse Wright's anger? His exaggerations or distortions? You'll have to decide or yourself. At least it helps me to understand the why of them.
But in this multimedia age the pulpit isn't only available on Sunday mornings. There's round the clock media - the beast whose hunger is never satisfied, especially for the fast food with emotional content. So the preacher starts with rational discussion and after much prodding throws more and more gasoline on the fire that will eventually consume everything it touches. He had help - people who for their own reasons set out to conflate the man in the pulpit who wasn't running for president with the man in the pew who was.
Behold the double standard: John McCain sought out the endorsement of John Hagee, the war-mongering Catholic-bashing Texas preacher who said the people of New Orleans got what they deserved for their sins. But no one suggests McCain shares Hagee's delusions, or thinks AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuality. Pat Robertson called for the assassination of a foreign head of state and asked God to remove Supreme Court justices, yet he remains a force in the Republican religious right. After 9/11 Jerry Falwell said the attack was God's judgment on America for having been driven out of our schools and the public square, but when McCain goes after the endorsement of the preacher he once condemned as an agent of intolerance, the press gives him a pass.
Jon Stewart recently played a tape from the Nixon White House in which Billy Graham talks in the oval office about how he has friends who are Jewish, but he knows in his heart that they are undermining America. This is crazy; this is wrong - white preachers are given leeway in politics that others aren't.
Which means it is all about race, isn't it? Wright's offensive opinions and inflammatory appearances are judged differently. He doesn't fire a shot in anger, put a noose around anyone's neck, call for insurrection, or plant a bomb in a church with children in Sunday school. What he does is to speak his mind in a language and style that unsettle some people, and says some things so outlandish and ill-advised that he finally leaves Obama no choice but to end their friendship. We are often exposed us to the corroding acid of the politics of personal destruction, but I've never seen anything like this. I've never seen this wrenching break between pastor and parishioner before our very eyes. Both men no doubt will carry the grief to their graves. All the rest of us should hang our heads in shame for letting it come to this in America, where the gluttony of the non-stop media grinder consumes us all and prevents an honest conversation on race. It is the price we are paying for failing to heed the great historian Jacob Burckhardt, who said "beware the terrible simplifiers".
Bill Moyers is a journalist and host of PBS' Bill Moyers Journal.
© 2008 PBS

121 Comments so far
Show Allvoxclamantis: Thanks for your substantive post. I almost agree with you that it's impossible for any politician to get elected or even nominated on the basis of anything other than malarkey, but Obama's brand is outstandingly vapid even by the usual low standards, and I'm really afraid that if we undergo some sort of economic meltdown in the next few years, Obama would produce some watery compromises with Republicans instead of New-Deal style programs for the dispossessed.
But I mostly agree with you, and blame the media conglomerates for stupefying the public. All of us with a real interest in advancing or even holding our ground with the progressive agenda should make breaking up the media conglomerates our number one priority!
As long as right-wing billionaires control the flow of information, they also control everything else, and the blinkered public will just continue stumbling down whichever path those predators trace out for us.
Moyers writes: "... America, where the gluttony of the non-stop media grinder consumes us all and prevents an honest conversation on race. It is the price we are paying for failing to heed the great historian Jacob Burckhardt, who said 'beware the terrible simplifiers.'"
That 999 of 1000 Americans have never heard of Jacob Burckhardt, or seriously studied history, even the history of their own country, not to mention the Middle Ages, which was Burckhardt's area of expertise, is a big part of the problem.
Perhaps Americans will begin to take life and the responsibilities of citizenship seriously again one day, after the criminals now running the government and the Big Media conglomerates bring the nation to ruin.
RTDRURY: Good post. I agree.
Remember when some venom was hurled at Karl Rove and he "stepped down"? We all know he's still a player. It was just an orchestrated move to appease a portion of the populace. What if that's the "dance" at play between Obama and Wright? What if Wright recognized that the "outing of unpopular truths" would cost Obama the race, and somewhere behind the scenes BOTH realized it would be best for America, best for Obama's presidential ambition of some theatrics were deployed to cause an apparent separation between the two men? Personally that maneuver wouldn't bother me in the least. Politics is a DIRTY game, and as Glenn Greenwald articulated in an earlier posting today, the media has become a slime machine aiming at those unpopular to its corporate masters' cause. Obama is no saint, and he has to appease at least some of the power structure to be considered for CEO of American, Inc. at all. In comparison with the other 2 "front runners" at least the man has intelligence and a soul. At this point in America's karmic slide under, that may be the best we can hope for. Therefore allow the guy some strategy! All politicians are part actors... a sudden scene change may serve the ultimate plot!
I started to read this article with an eye for cutting Moyers title Beware The Simplifiers apart. Places to cut I didn't find but a snip here and there could do us all good.
The "simplest", most focused, act for overcoming the shame Moyers mentions, and for very much more: is through the process of impeachment hearings.
Impeachment hearings will construct a National dialogue based on Congressional interactions and not the sound bites of our infernal campaigns. From these dialogues and interactions will come the best answers for resetting the direction of this great Nation
jamadison4, if Reverend Wright is like an Old Testament Prophet condemning the immorality of the nation and its leaders (a very good analogy), then dare I say that Barack Obama can be likened to Peter, denying Jesus ("I don't know him, and I am not his disciple!"). It didn't make Peter a bad person; he was simply fulfilling prophecy.
voxclamantis said: "Someone whispered something hugely, disspiritingly true in my ear a couple of elections ago when I had my shorts in a twist about milksop politicians who could not bring themselves to speak the plain truth or get specific about anything they stood for or intended to do. It still drives me nuts, but here is the reason why: The more positions a candidate specifies, the more votes he/she loses."
This is SO true and needs to be said more often. The value of money in elections means a politician can buy office by 'defining' his opponent as, basically, a politician with an opinion, while carefully avoiding any opinion him/her -self, on ANY issue.
He's MA, PA and Apple Pie! But does he believe in progressive taxation? The more money he/she has to spend, the less you'll figure that one out. Thats the primary reason why I believe in progressive taxation. When the rich get too rich, they use that money to buy influence in politics. Pass all the laws you want, when wealth becomes concentrated, it represents too few voices in our 'democracy', purchasing influence.
"It is the price we are paying for failing to heed the great historian Jacob Burckhardt, who said "beware the terrible simplifiers"."
Thank you once again, Bill Moyers for lending a voice of reason to a miasma of simplification.
We all know who the terrible simplifiers are. We hear them on talk radio (my local AM station, WGAN in Portland, Maine, runs non-stop conservative simplification, morning, noon, and night), we see them on TV, and we hear the parroting of this in supermarket aisles and work places.
Life is not simple, but the little voice in our hearts is. That is what we should turn to. We each need to listen to our heart, and those who speak to it.
Rev. Wright is like an Old Testiment Prophet condeming the godlessness and immorality of the nation and its leaders.
Those religious leaders of old scripture were killed or had to flee into hiding. .That did not change Gods Message one bit. .There was terrible accountings.
Rev. Wright has taken the lonely and dangerous road. .He has condemned the immoral and racist America that he has grown up in these most recent 70 years. .Racism, immorality, crime, and a socio-economic divisive country still are the norm of the United States of America !!!!!!!!!!!!
The sermons of this black preacher are bitter and upsetting, but they are the TRUTH of a very brave prophet........
.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
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I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
I still don't care about Jeremiah Wright.
Obama '08!
Right on the money, Mr. Moyers.
What's refreshing about Barack Obama is that all the race-vitriol directed at or past him from BOTH sides just seems to roll off of him. I'm convinced that the reason Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama, both intelligent men, have such different gut responses to the topic of race is because of where they were raised. Obama was raised largely in Hawaii and Indonesia: poly-racial societies where overt, directed racism is difficult to formulate because you're never actually sure of the race of the person you are directing the hatred at, or on behalf of. There IS racism in Hawaii, mostly by Hawaiians against whites or asians, but for most of the population, its simply difficult to identify your 'tribe'. Obama would have stood out, however, and felt isolated by being black. But there were none of the 'convenient' explanations for his feelings of racial-isolation that appear all to readily to blacks living on mainland America. In Hawaii, you Hapa (half-half)? Join the club!!
Wright was raised in mainland America: 'nough said. He's got a chip on his shoulder the size of a truck. Some of it is deserved, and much of it isn't. The subcultures in mainland America are huge. The tribes are separated and are unlikely to rejoin anytime soon. Even an Obama Presidency wouldn't change that. If it did, Wright would probably have as much reason for discomfort as any white-supremacist. Their respective racism is like a down comforter, by now. It's a lullaby that helps them sleep at night.
In my newspaper today over 50% of the meager 4 pages of Sunday "Perspectives" is devoted to bashing Rev Wright and undermining Obama. The feeding frenzy is on and corporate media is pulling out the stops to torpedo Obama or make sure he never ever ever again associates with someone who speaks the words "US terrorism", "Israeli apartheid", or "US drug experiments" again.
Terrible simplifiers are the self-styled "people of faith." To ingratiate themselves with one another they feign belief. Faith is what we can have instead of conviction, and religion is something we can do instead of the right thing.
No it's not all about race. It's about money and power. The Empire will not go down quietly but it will go down. Are we ready yet to supplant it and actionize the new paradigm? No!
No one has yet stitched all the pieces together and brought them into focus. We are still fragmented. The American People will need a new road to walk or they will be led to destruction. When the collapse occurs, mild or miserable, the American People will be ready to change. The philosophical underpinnings of the new lifeways need to be clarified and connected directly with the actions necessary to fulfill them. The Dim's and Repug's are the old paradigm of competition, military dominance, and false propaganda.
Change is bold and strikes out in a new direction. We are at a critical point. A decision for a new paradigm of cooperation, respect for all life, and healing MUST be chosen. Politically the Green Platform is a new paradigm and one that is badly needed. Personally, each of us will be required to risk for the future. Deny fear and risk with your heart, soul, and mind. Risk aggressively. The hour is upon us.
I respect Mr. Moyers, but here I think he is missing some key points.
What did Rev. Wright say that was outlandish or ill advised?
Rev. Wright spoke a truth that resonates with many people across this country and indeed the world.
He was saying something that an American ambassador and a Presidential candidate had also said.
No thinking person can deny the dastardly deeds America has perpetrated on others.
In regards to AIDS, I don't know if the US government deliberately set this upon Americas, but it is well documented, beyond the syphilis example, that this government sent rock cocaine into black American neighborhoods, small pox into native American nations, and certainly didn't rush to eradicate AIDS with all its might, money and resources.
This isn't just the fault of the media. The people who wish to stay ignorant, narrow, and in denial are also to blame.
Also, Obama did have a choice and choose to be a typical politician and stick his head into the expedient sands that so often define our leaders.
From my perspective we should be thanking Rev. Wright for the opportunity to bring things out into the light of day and deal with what ails this country in a constructive honest manner.
Of course that's not what happened - we all just rallied around our arrogant ignorance and deny, deny, deny, and demand renouncement and more bamboozlement.
I do agree with Mr. Moyers - shame on all of us.
Reagan said that he was going to simplify your taxes and then he took away automobile loan and credit card interest deductions. It was effectively a tax hike, but since it was cloaked as simplification, everyone went along.
Thanks for this article Bill. It seems to me that a big fault of the majority of American people is that they tend to think too well of themselves. They refuse to believe that we are just as selfish and as bigoted as any other peoples on earth.
Obama seems to be an honest man - every time I have heard him speak he seems to speaking his truth rather than what he thinks will get enough votes to get elected as our next president. I worry that Americans don't want to hear the truth.
Right on ej! Given the behavior of the US throughout its history, it wouldn't surprise me if it were behind AIDS.
What really astonishes me is the inability of folks to see the pattern of behavior of our governing body, our corportocracy, our media whores - and their abuse of citizery - enacted, over and over again. If it were a marriage, or business partnership one would have long ago gotten a divorce, a dissolution, or killed the perpetrator.
What's with the blindness and denial???
Abuse in every sector of our society is out there writ large. Its not a unique event brought to us by a "few bad apples" it's the entrenched attitude of Power towards Citizens. And it's International - we've provided an exemplary model of abuse for all to use.
If you think the reverend is angry, try out Bobby Fischer:
http://bobbyfischerpage.tripod.com/
You might start with his infamous interview in the Philippines on September 11, 2001. If you are among the many anti Semite who frequent this site, then you will probably thoroughly enjoy all the interviews.
As for myself, I grew up with Bobby, my constant chess companion. I would say that I have always been very strongly in favor of Bobby Fischer and supported him through all his trials. I agree with much of what he has to say about the United States provided I simply leave out the word "Jew" from his reckless diatribes; some of you will prefer his words unedited.
It is truly impossible to have a rational political discussion in the U.S. There is only anger. I myself am just as angry as Reverend Wright, and I know that I am not alone. A reasoned argument or a presentation of fact is always met by a personal condemnation and accusation - "swift boating." That in itself is reason enough for anger.
"In my newspaper today over 50% of the meager 4 pages of Sunday "Perspectives" is devoted to bashing Rev Wright and undermining Obama."
Did you finish reading your paper or did you walk immediately to the telephone or your computer keyboard after reading the 4pages and cancel your newspaper subscription ?
Holy smokes : you and fifty million other MSM-newspaper readers and do-nothing whiners are incredibly stupid . Boycott MSM .
I gave up everthing except local tv and newspapers except PBS and now that Bill Moyers is neutralized by the almost-copycat-of-MSM "Washington Week" PBS is boycotted too.
I'll get my news from the Guardian , Agent Presse France ...
Whine on
ubrew12,
I think you need to examine the definition of racism before describing the resentment of Hawiiians or US blacks as "racism".
Racism is not just racial prejudice. Racism is defined as a system of race-based social and economic structures that exist to maintain the political and economic power of a dominant group. In other words, a person can only be a racist if they are using race to maintain their position of privilege. A black American person can express hatred of whites all he wants, but because it doesn't buy him a single bit of power or privilege, it is NOT racism. Same is probably true of native Hawaiians - Even their annual "kill Haole (white foreigner) day" doesn't buy them a bit of power. Prejudiced and bigoted? Yes! Racist? No.
As far as Wright, aside from the AIDS thing, I completely support both what Wright has said, and how he delivers it.
And Mr. Moyers' article is pretty good for a mainstream journalist, but exactly what noble causes over the past 60 years did so many USAns, white and black, die for? Didn't most of them, from Korea to Indochina to Afghanistan and and Iraq, die for lies?
Reverand Wright said nothng that was not the truth or very near the truth. He could have stayed away from the Aids remark, as apparently he has no evidene of that charge.
So it came down to Obama and his personal decision to condemn and betray his long time friend, his chosen pastor and advisor. He betrayed a good man, whom he had only a week prior said that he could no more turn his back on his pastor, than he could on the black community, or his white grandmother who had raised him.
However, Obama changed his mind for 'political' expedient reasons, after Wright had spoken at the Press Club, where he fielded hard and often leading questions with perfect and starkly honest, eye opening replys. Obama chose to betray and publically denounce the man, his 20 year long, very good friend and advisor____ for political reasons.
Obama in a time of stress and unnecessay anger, displayed that he will do anythng to win an election. He is not the man he has been telling us all he is, or the man he wrote about in his "self penned" books. He displayed some of the worst character flaws a person may have. ___ Hypocracy and greed.
An analogy: ___ In 1928, there was a man who was part Irish and very proud of it. He was a Catholic and had never had the opportunity to finish high school. He was a very progressive, for the people, FOUR time Governor of New York, who was considered to be a very honest man. "AL" Smith ran against Hoover for the Presidency in 1928.
AL Smith had to fight a great deal of prejudice, as in 1928 Cathloics and the Irish were not well recieved by the vast majority of Americans, not all that different perhaps from a black man running for that high office today. During the campaign Smith once quipped, ___"I'd rather be right than be president".
Well, I don't know if he was right or not, but he didn't win the election.___ He didn't betary his morals or his principals either in order to win.
Bill Moyers says...
"All the rest of us should hang our heads in shame for letting it come to this in America..."
All the rest of us, specifically everyone except Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright, should hang our heads in shame?
Shame on us... for anything and everything that happens anywhere ever in the history of the world? For every stupid, hateful thing that anyone may ever say or do?
This garbage sounds like a parody of "bleeding heart" liberals by Rush Limbaugh on one of his really bad days!
We should "hang our heads in shame for letting it come to this in America," when a black Senator can become the leading candidate for President of the United States?
We should "hang our heads in shame for letting it come to this in America," when the only thing that can keep Barack Obama out of the White House is his own cowardice for not confronting Jeremiah Wright?
I feel so ashamed that Barack Obama didn't have the balls to confront his hate-freak pastor for 20 years!
But look, says Bill Moyers! Jeremiah Wright doesn't scream hate-speech every second of every day!
Jeremiah Wright actually managed to talk to Moyers for a whole hour without screaming hate at whitey!
What a wonderful guy!
And when David Duke or some other KKK lunatic comes on Bill Moyers and manages to avoid the N-word for an hour...
Is Bill Moyers going to tell us how ashamed we should be for condemning the KKK?
This is a new low in low standards!
If you can act sane for 60 minutes, then anything else you may have ever said or done was probably just a freakish aberration!
Hurrah for Barack Obama and his hate-freak pastor!
But none of Moyers' excuses kept Obama from throwing Jeremiah Wright under the bus!
"He finally leaves Obama no choice but to end their friendship..."
Poor little Obama! No choice! Whitey made him renounce his dear friend! We should all be so ashamed!
Now lets all sing "God damn America!" along with Barack and Jeremiah and Bill Moyers, and spend the next 4 years wondering how the Democrats lost another election.
Yet again Mr. Moyers crystal clear and clean perspective shines through the slimy selfish murk of corporate media's disjointed coverage of their attempts at the assassination of the character of two extremely intelligent and thoughtful men who have devoted most of their lives to public service. Corporate media's bloody fangs are drooling with the very idea that their half-truths and out of context coverage has succeeded in turning these one-time friends against each other. It's all about market share! To hell with America and the American people as long as they line their pockets. Perhaps we shouldn't participate in this travesty by not purchasing the products of the sponsors of this drivel.
Wow, Bill Moyers is great. But I would take his argument one step further. The corporate media is literally trying to destroy Obama's campaign.
"Hurrah for Barack Obama and his hate-freak pastor!"
Go back to your art, man, and leave words for those who know how to use them.
I'll add this: You've proven Moyer's point to the T. Very simplified.
Mr Freeze,
Speaking truth to the evils of power, with a strong and angry voice, is most decidedly not being a "hate-freak". OK?
There are NO parallels between black distrust of whitey, and white racism. You must have skipped over my 1:50PM post; please go back and read it now.
If the path to political success for the Democrats is to resemble a softer voiced Republican, what's the point of the Democrats even existing?
USAn May 4th, 2008 2:21 pm -- "If the path to political success for the Democrats is to resemble a softer voiced Republican, what's the point of the Democrats even existing?"
I suspect that's probably a rhetorical question, but just in case an answer is required, the point of their existence is to allow the terrible simplifiers to pretend that their 'two-party' system of corporatocracy provides USans with the 'greatest democracy on earth' and that its export to other nations at the point of a gun constitutes 'liberation' worthy of your support.
Let's be clear. Barack Obama had to distance himself from Pastor Wright because Rev. Wright mischaracterized Obama. He called Obama a politician who was saying what he said in order to be elected. This is not who Obama is. He says what he believes in, and apparently Rev. Wright did not understand this. It is sad that it had to come to this because much of what WRight has said is true. The lesson is: we never really know someone until the hard times occur and we see how they react. The media and the other campaigns have pushed it to this point.
I remember when AIDs was being ignored. It was because of a commonly held belief that it was among the gay community, black community, and drug community.
And all of those people are dispensable to the rightous minds of the religious and conservative right. They were ignored by many democrats as well.
The preacher may only be slightly off the mark, but clearly there wasn't any concern for the aids victims in the early days because of their color.
Until the progressive movement gets its act together and actually starts supporting truly progressive candidates as opposed to the warmed over corporate sponsored entities we call presidential candidates, we will get whatever is offered up.
Why aren't people demanding that Nader, Kucinich, Mike Gravel, McKinney be included in the conversation about the future of our country.
Even this website, supposedly common dreams, seems more and more to be a watered down version of the republican dream.
I want a candidate that will get us out of Iraq, stop executions, provide universal health, cut the defense budget and increase the education budget.
Isn't it time to actually support candidates that support the progressive's platform?
The worst crimes were dared by a few, willed by more and tolerated by all. ~Tacitus
The mind of Jacob Freeze is not only a terrible simplifier. It invents things and then believes in its own inventions. It looks as if he has a point of view about this, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what it is. I think he is too attracted to invective (which is always an oversimplification) to speak plainly.
It is a shame the debate organizers and participants did not take the opportunity to get into the substance of Rev. Wright's point of view beyond the "gotcha" accusations and third rail disassociations revolving around an ill-advised punch line in one of his sermons. I guess that would be like asking a class of kindergarten kids to attend a college level seminar. Obama probably understood that a Disney sponsored venue was, sadly, not the place for an adult conversation or an informed, nuanced discussion of race. It was a silly assed obstacle course peppered with booby traps, like all brainless TV game shows. No choice but to terminate a debate with a tribe of hostile yahoos by terminating his ties to Wright. How depressing that our election process insists on such intellectual mediocrity, such embarrassing poltroonery from our candidates. Ça nous abêtira.
HI~SALLY~ Wright said Obama is a politician and does what politicians do and I'm a minister and do what ministers do. There was no malice in those words. He was not berating Obama or attempting to hurt Obama.
The way I understood him, Wright was explaining that it was perfectly alright for Obama to attend his church and to be his close friend and be a politician. He helped Obama a great deal when Obama was running for public offfice in Illinois.
Obama should have had a meeting of the minds before he did what he did, which only hurt his chances to win the Demo nomination. He screwed up. He also showed he has serious character flaws which had not been evident till then, nor were they of course mentioned by himself in his books about himself. We all have our personal flaws, but we don't all betray our friends to gain a higher position.
Why condemn a man who the vast majority thought was telling truths with one possible error in his words. Obama didn't have to say anythng, except he didn't agree with everything Wright said. Neither did I or many others, but overall Wright displayed that he is a fine an dhonest man with a high degree of character and he showed it. ______ Obama didn't.
I never miss Bill Moyer's show on PBS. He's like the lone voice of reason in an insane asylum. I like the way he speaks softly, but carries a big stick.
I find it interesting how many of us actually agree with Wright [even accepting the possibility that our government deliberately did too little about AIDS], and how many of us are miffed that Obama knuckled under and disavowed Wright. Of course coporate media will dis Wright, as they will anyone who is not afraid to speak what they think to be true [I almost wrote truth, but I didn't want to set up an argument about the nature of truth]. Wright is a vet, a patriot in the true meaning of the word. I find more in common with his speeches than any politician running for office. [Except, of course, when he rally goes out on a limb intellectually, talking about some mythical dude creator for which there is REALLY no evidence.]
Here's a link to a documentary featuring one of the people that Wright referred to on Monday when the AIDS question was asked.
In Lies We Trust
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8674401787208020885
Wright appeared to be spot on in both interviews ,but the dumbed down public can't let go of the FACT that nearly all they've been taught in their (government funded)schools and institutions is simply Bullshit designed to keep them in their place.
Sorry Amerika but you've been took.
But some of you seem to enjoy it.
Can we please turn this particular spotlight on John Hagee? I'd love to hear Moyers compare the two.
Let's make it a little less simple:
First Obama makes the most condescending defense of Jeremiah Wright that it is possible to imagine, even including racist language from the days of Jim Crow... He's my crazy old "uncle."
Then Obama gets exposed by his own advisor for bullshitting about NAFTA.
The Obama decides it's a wonderful idea to undermine every gun-control law ever written, and make it almost impossible to write new gun-control legislation.
Then Obama votes to fund the war in Iraq every chance he gets and then he throws Jeremiah Wright under the bus for saying exactly the same things he has been saying for 20 years.
Maybe some of us are just too simple-minded to understand how Barack Obama could be anything other than an absolutely unscrupulous politician and all-around bullshitter, and I'm sure Bill Moyers would want us to be very ashamed...
And meanwhile Moyers and all the other Obamabots and Obama himself can just go on shamelessly bullshitting forever!
Speaking of AIDS. I remember reading long ago, that our government gave Indians blankets, which were purposely contaminated with (small pox germs) in an attempt to eradicte the "savages", who were different. They had different skin coloring and practiced different customs and were a pain in the ass.
I wonder if our government stopped doing such criminal type of things over the years?
~Bill Moyers~ you wrote, "BOTH men will no doubt carry the grief to their graves." An excellent point Bill, and I totally agree with you on it.
Why should Obama feel any long tme grief for betraying his good friend and pastor of 20 years?
Obama would ONLY feel grief on that issue, ___ if he was guilty of doing somethng terribly wrong and knew that he had done so. So I agree with you, he will feel long time grief for what he has done, because he is guilty. ___ Would you agree?
I remembered the story of the contaminated blankets given to the Indians who'd gathered to greet those early white men coming in big ships when the AIDS thing turned out to be a major thing. My first thought was one of the germ warfare part of our military complex coming up with a new "bug" and looking for human guinea pigs. Which two groups would they see as expendable?
Jeremiah Wright is of a generation of blacks that has every reason to be distrustful and cynical. They experienced an America that no white ever knew, or will ever know.
White America hates to be reminded of it's sins, whether racial or in foreign policy. Wright reminds them of both in no uncertain terms.
So of course he deserves to be pilloried.
Hagee, who unabashedly promotes war with Iran and Russia, gets a free ride because he's white, rich and republican.
There are two posters on line who have touched the reality of thought: EJ and Kem Patrick: EJ weighs in with her respect for Bill Moyers as I do and I always hope to read a response from Kem for the depth of his reasoning.
The Rev Mr. Wright warned of actions coming home to roost ... they do and our actions in the Mideast will haunt our nation for eons in the future. However Mr. Moyers claims that offensive opinions and inflammatory appearances are judged differently. He adds that the Reverend Mr. Wright says some things so outlandish and ill-advised that he finally leaves Obama no choice but to end their friendship.
There was a choice - namely loyalty. But Obama does exibit loyalty - loyalty to war mongers when he said he would vote to bomb Pakistan and there hasn't been a war funding act that as an elected senator he hasn't voted to empower. Is that loyalty to the troops in the field? So Obama had no choice to end their friendship; will he have loyalty to the troops sent on an invasion of another country to steal its valued natural resource - OIL? Is his loyalty to these 4,000 plus service men and women killed in this grand theft? Is he loyal to his christian upbringing and to its perogatives to offer more than prayers to the million plus Iraqi citizens killed in this action. Maybe even monetary compensation to rebuild their homeland. Will he vote to invade another nation - Iran - without speaking out to oppose such a barbarity? Loyalty is as loyalty does.
Obama would ONLY feel grief on that issue, ___ if he was guilty of doing somethng terribly wrong and knew that he had done so. So I agree with you, he will feel long time grief for what he has done, because he is guilty. ___ Would you agree?
Grief is not the emotion associated with wrongdoing, but with loss. If Obama has done something wrong and knows it, the feeling he should have is guilt. If he has instead lost a friend, he should feel grief.
The "simplest", most focused, act for overcoming the shame Moyers mentions, and for very much more: is through the process of impeachment hearings.
I personally cannot impeach Bush, nor do I know how to cause him to be impeached, so I think your proposal is too simple.
Sally wrote:
"He called Obama a politician who was saying what he said in order to be elected. This is not who Obama is. He says what he believes in, and apparently Rev. Wright did not understand this."
But Sally, you should understand that many of us are only going to vote for Obama if we can become convinced that his is indeed only saying the things he is saying in order to get elected - like increasing military spending, escalating military action in Afghanistan, maybe bombing Pakistan, supporting Israel as a "stalwart ally" utter silence on the plight of Palestine, promoting a useless corporate-insurance based health care plan, etc...
The point of departure of Moyers piece and what we should be discussing is the prevalence of racism in the USA. I tried to do that in the 1:50 comment. It is telling that few have anything to say about it.
USAn said: "ubrew12, I think you need to examine the definition of racism before describing the resentment of Hawiiians or US blacks as 'racism'. Racism is not just racial prejudice. Racism is defined as a system of race-based social and economic structures... A black American person can express hatred of whites all he wants, but...it is NOT racism. Prejudiced and bigoted? Yes! Racist? No... Even [Hawaiians] annual 'kill Haole (white foreigner) day' doesn't buy them a bit of power. "
I'm sure the white friends I had who couldn't go to school on the last day because they'd get the sh*t kicked out of them will appreciate the subtlety in your definitions. Hey, they'd say to themselves as the boots fell, THIS ISN'T RACISM, ITS JUST PREJUDICE!!! Among those white friends could have been Obama's MOTHER.
I hear what you're saying, however. When prejudice becomes institutionalized it becomes racism. I had white friends in Hawaii who, after 20 years in the fire department, finally just had to leave because they were NEVER going to get promoted and they'd FINALLY realized why.
Meanwhile, I'm here on the mainland, and I realize: I will NEVER get promoted and I FINALLY realize WHY!!!
Not enough blacks in America have employment as corporate elites, and lack cosy tax shelters in Bermuda, or shares in military corporate pillage of foreign countries. Why should rich old white men have all the fun?
My friend Bernard Weisberger, the historian, says, yes, people are understandably seething with indignation over Wright's absurd charge that the United States deliberately brought an HIV epidemic into being.
Yes indeed the United States deliberately brought an HIV epidemic into being. The US had a choice between delivering free medicines to epidemic-prone areas and not delivering free medicines and the US made the deliberate choice not deliver to them. Thus the US deliberately brought HIV epidemic #2 into being, that is, an unnecessary epidemic above and beyond epidemic #1 that raged as the medicines were being developed. The US deliberated the pros and cons of bringing epidemic #2 into being. The pros were protection of the short term profits of the medicines developers and protection of the long term "well-being" of the capitalist system in particular, and elite domination over people in general. The cons of bringing epidemic #2 into being were the threat of class war escalation, rabble riots and revolution, possible degradation of elitist domination and destruction of elitist "property". The pros outweighed the cons and the US conspiracy to "bring on" HIV epidemic #2 was implemented.
"I personally cannot impeach Bush, nor do I know how to cause him to be impeached, so I think your proposal is too simple" - barely human May 4th, 2008 5:30 p
Do you not know your Congressional Representative, or how to contact them? Amazingly I find this as a common malady and one of the main reasons the Nation is in the condition it is in. It is also on my list of the constructive outcomes that would be derived from the human actions that would need to be carried out within a process of impeachment hearings - Citizen/Representative engagement.
If you study great practitioners of any craft you'll find their basic methodology was very simplistic (Upledger, Reich, Feldenkrais, et al), a simplicity that leads to a complexity of hypothesis and potentiality of application.
If the People will come to realize that stopping the jet fumes and missile strikes are the number one thing one could do for the environment, that putting a halt in the surging production of traumatic stress disorders would be the number one thing humanity could do for improving it's health, that it is now a matter of not supporting the Troops but Protecting the Troops, and that in terms of economics, nothing would help the US Treasury more for stopping the blood letting of deficits stemming from funding the Middle East wars, and, that the one action: capable of bringing all this humanity uplift to pass are through the impeachment hearings for George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney - a simple methodology - complex compelling potentials.
USAn;
So right you are. I posted several comments (and rather long ones at that) these past days about the 'racism in America' aspect to all of this and there was only one comment, in response to that theme.
As Bill Moyers said, "it's all about race" and "he (Wright) finally leaves Obama no choice but to end their friendship (BECAUSE of the racism in America)".