progress, israel is the victim because palestinians resist continued dispossession?
very very clever. this is exactly the aipac line. the force of this argument (and lots of lobby money) gets this point across to the US congress
but mostly its the cogent argument i am sure, not the aipac money that gives them such a compliant congress

.
The Zionists' hidden agenda over the next 20 years is to kill or force out all the Palestinians from their land.

They invision a Second Kingdom of David. That means tripling the Real Estate and natural resources of Israel.

Israel will never negociate in good faith. They must be stopped by force.

.

This blog will almost invariably be hijacked by rabid z__n__sts who, like clockwork will scream meaningless slogans like 'anti-semite' at anyone who dare criticize Israeli policies.

The apartheid state of Israel needs to be dismantled. The suffering they cause to people around them is unacceptable. The entire region should be made into a U.N. buffer zone and demilitarized !

Gaza, along with Darfur, is the humanitarian crisis of our age. Whenever anyone speaks up against Israeli policies against Gaza, they are branded as anti-semite (of course the people of Gaza is anti-semite also and even if it is insulting to Israeli people that individuals voice concern for the people of Gaza - so what? It is not like the Israelis show any gratitude for the inheritance of Palestine anyhow).

Even Adolf Hitler predicted such treatment of Palestinians by Israelis once upon a time. Clearly Israelis should take off their yamakas and have mandatory nose jobs.

The issue of the injustice suffered by the Palestinians has been my number one issue for more than 40 years, long before a single person I knew agreed with me on this issue.

I am glad some other progressives have finally come over to a clearer picture of what is going on there and have rejected the media picture that has been painted over the years. When I see what is happening now, it seems that much of this is close to what I have always feared could happen.

I remember fighting in the Democratic Party for a platform statement on a Palestinian state, in the 1980s when the issue was finally able to be raised at the State level. Even then I wanted to include the words "for all who want to live there and no expulsions." All I can try to do is to not be too despondent over the outcome which seems terrible and inevitable.

"Democracy for all"*

*Democracy not guaranteed. Especially if you make the wrong choices or elect the wrong people. Punishment for using your democracy in opposition to American and Israeli interests may include collective punishment, targeted assasinations, restriction of movement, seizure of land, etc... Democracy may include outside interference in the form of rigging elections, supressing the vote, payoffs to voters, threats of retaliation, etc...

riddimboy wrote:

"This blog will almost invariably be hijacked by rabid z__n__sts who, like clockwork will scream meaningless slogans like 'anti-semite' at anyone who dare criticize Israeli policies."

Since you have a time machine, how's about giving us CD readers a few stock tips? Look, I don't like Zionists either, but complaining about things they haven't even done yet is kind of silly, don't you think? It smacks of the same kind of persecution complex that you are criticizing.

Ahuramazda wrote:

Gaza, along with Darfur, is the humanitarian crisis of our age."

"The?" There's only one humanitarian crisis? Come on.

Ahuramazda also wrote:

"Whenever anyone speaks up against Israeli policies against Gaza, they are branded as anti-semite...."

Again with the persecution complex. Give it a rest, please. Talking about "yamakas" [sic] and "nose jobs" hardly helps your case. And do you really think you'll come across as LESS of an anti-semite with such statements as "Even Adolf Hitler predicted..."? The only thing Hitler was good at was getting into power and mass murder. It hardly needs saying that his ideas about history and the future were utter nonsense.

It's hard not to wish this abominable state ill

Readers beware .....

Idiotic and racist comments such as from "Ahuramazda" may come from agents with the purpose of undermining the credibility of good articles and this fine website.

My local newspaper discovered that various letters to the editor were coming from agents and organizations pretending to be regular folk. Thus they began screening and running checks to verify the authenticity of the writer.

I expect the same problem occurs here. Some comments don't pass the sniff test.

"This blog will almost invariably be hijacked by rabid z__n__sts who, like clockwork will scream meaningless slogans like 'anti-semite' at anyone who dare criticize Israeli policies."

I would certainly hope so. Somebody's got to speak up and tell the truth. This is pure unadulterated anti-Semitism. There's no question about it, and I think you all know that very well. The Palestinians began this war a long time ago and are entirely responsible for it. They have been offered peace many, many times. All they have to do is recognize Israel. Wouldn't cost them anything and would take five minutes.

Their constant whining and claiming that they are the victims here is ridiculous. They are not the victims at all, they are the perpetrators. When and if they want peace it's there waiting for them. All they have to do is accept the rulings of the UN, the basic tenets of international law and recognize Israel. When they do so they're suffering will end. Until they do so they will continue to suffer. Encouraging them to continue the policies they've engaged in for the last 60 years will only bring them the same results they've experienced for the last 60 years. But the anti-Semites couldn't care less about the Palestinians. All they care about is attacking Jews. They're more than willing to see the Palestinians continue to suffer as long as it helps them in their never-ending campaign to persecute Jews. As the openly anti-Semitic riddimboy says, quite openly and clearly is "The apartheid state of Israel needs to be dismantled." In other words, eliminate the Jews from the land they've been on for 3,000 years, so that the Arabs can steal it.

"Even Adolf Hitler predicted such treatment of Palestinians by Israelis once upon a time." Excuse me as I laugh hysterically. Are you really denying that Hitler wasn't anti-Semitic. :)

Oh they think they be so clever. Citing Hitler in support of palestinian rights...hmm, and then there were the zionists handing out pro palestinian literature at neo nazi rallies...

But I do wonder..why did they reseal the EGyptian border... If things are so bad--why let Egypt reseal it?
Was it so that the blame could fall on Israel alone once more?

Seems strange to endure extra suffering so they can keep the focus on Israel. Egypt is responsible too(Israel is the main problem of course).

I rest my case !!

Israel primary goal, the one most Israelis can agree upon, is to protect herself. With wave after wave of attack, Israel has done the only non-suicidal thing she could: subjugated the perpetrators in self-defense. The Palestinians don't like being subjugated, and the Israelis don't want to do it, but as long as the PA powers that be want to kill Israelis, Israel has no choice but to tie up Gaza and the West Bank.

Sure does suck for everyone involved.

And as for the anti-semites, they're real and all over the place, especially on this lovely site.

The warning flags are flying that the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) is about to attack Iran, while Bush has quietly over the last few weeks untied the purse strings and let loose a flood of money to the enemies of Iran, Hezbollah, Syria and Hamas. What is happening in Gaza is intimately connected to this, as the Israeli right (like the Bushies) blames Iran for the resistance of the people it is oppressing and imagines they could calm the situation without Iran. They also see that a war with Iran will provide a great distraction, under cover of which some terrible actions against the people of Gaza and Hamas (and Sadr City) can be expected, without a peep from the pro-Israel Democrats. Speaking out on this issue is dangerous, and Hamas is not the sort of heroes we might wish for, but it lies at the heart of the tangled Middle Eastern knot, and speaking out on it is essential to our survival.

In the end there are two peoples sharing one land, too intermingled to separate any longer into separate states. This includes many Arab citizens of Israel and Jerusalem who can never, ever be reconciled their permanent status as second-class citizens in a Jewish state. In the end there is only the single state solution, and the choice is between democracy and genocide. In the end we will all have to choose between the anachronism of a modern nuclear-armed technological state based on the exclusive rule of one people over another by terror, or the demand for democracy, justice and equal rights. In the end we - Jews and non-Jews alike - will have to choose between the Jewish State and world peace.

It's GREAT to see some fellow zionists on here to set this idiocy straight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahura_Mazda

AhuraMazda comes from the Persian based Zorastrian religion Holden/Progress. Its the Zorastrian religion's word for thier God. The poster therefore is probably not Arab as Persians are not Arab. You're showing your ignorance. I can't take any of your comments seriously as clearly you know nothing about the cultures of the Middle East if you couldn't even get this basic fact right. I don't take AhuraMazda's comments seriously either as this poster is equally ignorant.

As for the subject at hand no need to even comment anymore. The whole world knows what is going on and nobody is doing anything about it. Too bad my tax dollars fund this crap and too bad all the nutjobs come out of the woodwork whenever this subject is posted on commondreams.

Dc, you are hardly as smart as you think. I know the word was persian, and my point was more to insult the poster, who may very well regard being called arab as an insult, then to make a culturally accurate response. I might very well be descended from iranian jews so don't think I don't know the difference between persian and arab.

The world DOES know what's going on, israel is defending itself against palestinian terrorism. And yes, many people are trying to do something about it. They are trying their best to tie israel's hands behind its back so that they can be slow-motion attritioned into oblivion. I'm terribly sorry the process isn't going fast enough for you.

Paint Swastika's Over The Star of David.

And Drape Israeli Flags Over Every Dead American GI's coffin.

We're Fighting a War for the Murderers,

While They Enjoy A Little Ethnic Cleansing;

Khiam: (Your Friendly Israeli Torture Center For Children!)

No 'neocons' no Iraq War. Period. And neocon=aipaic period.
That is about a MILLION CORPSES. AND NAZI IN SCOPE.

Mike I am against the iraq war but of course very supportive of israel. I don't see how you can mix the two, or think they automatically go together. Saddam was no friend of israel, but he was the enemy they knew, and he kept iran in check. Now, israel is in a far more dangerous position, while the US borrowing trillions of dollars from china to par for this war. We're done if this doesn't end, and then, israel is done. So if you don't think I care about the us, at least believe that I care about israel!

The rest of that doesn't warrant a response.

--"Paint Swastika's Over The Star of David."

This is a brilliant idea and very much in keeping with the current Israeli policies. Whoever thought of this deserves ... a Star of David (or Goliath or someother fukkkin jewish hero ).

The zionist-israeli dickwads seem to vomit all over this board.

--"We're Fighting a War for the Murderers"

Hey halfwit ... you ARE murderers. You murder Palestinians. Zionist-israelis are racist scumbags. Its evident by now and no one in the world is fooled by these murdering israeli schmucks.

I havent been around in a while and it seems these neo-con zionist vermin have only multiplied like cockroaches.

The armed to the teeth IDF got its kosher ass kicked all the way back to tel aviv by Hezbollah and thats just the beginning. There will never be peace and no Israeli will ever be able to sleep in peace unless they change their policies and attitude.

ok, who here has any experience on the now defunct yahoo news discussion boards? the old professional trolls are tons of fun, but there tactics are obvious when you're experienced. they're refugees seeking a new home and seem to have found CD as I have.
Ahuramazda is a pro old school troll.
P.S. Great job DCBELTWAY for the factoid! It gives him all away.

and in Nov WE THE PEOPLE will vote for whom we wish. You can't call it being anti semitic it is called DEMOCRACY.

Thanks Jimmy Carter, "Women of a Certain Age" and others who have gone to Israel and / or Gaza in order to see what is going on, to cut through the hype and to look for solutions.

The people in the Gaza ghetto need relief and justice. Israel is carrying out a cruel, cold-blooded and long term policy of humiliation and deprivation against a mostly civilian population. I imagine that the goal is to get the Palestinians to go elsewhere.

Egypt and surrounding countries have not stepped up to the plate because they don't care all that much (what's in it for them?), they don't want to cause a breach with the US and Israel has all kinds of weapons, including nuclear, and is ready to rain them down anywhere.

Rice talks about "difficult" issues - translation is the US neocons thrive off the blood and anger of this constant conflict and will do nothing to stop it. There are leaders in Israel who need to keep up the fear, who welcome some Israeli deaths from time to time in order to justify their policies and to stay in power. Sound familiar?

This problem cannot be solved unless Israel backs off from theories of Jewish exceptionalism and acts like a citizen in a world in which every human is entitled to rights. There are Israelis working toward this goal. Israeli peace activists walk a lonely road. They have to fight against the way Israel erases recent history and manipulates its population.

There are other choices for Israel beside imprisoning and starving the Palestinians. My favorite line from the movie "Witness": There is always another way.

Holden-Progress; Although what you say seems ludicrous to me, allow me please to commend you on your non-name callng style.

You stay knda low-key and make your points.

(wrong as they may be!)

But right on to civil discourse.

Shalom.

Hey gyptian;

You call me Brilliant AND a Half-Wit in your post.

I want to offer for you to make very fine love to yourself today!

"I haven't been around in a while" OOoooohhhh mysterious...

You get lost in the dark?

Granted this is an emotional topic. But so are many other topics.

The Israel-Palestine issue seems to be a magnet for self-indulgent showing off that discourages people from reading and thinking. Please ask yourself - will my post help people to understand or help solve the problem?

Why not leave off the hyperbole and name calling? It is not useful and often not accurate.

FGM is not an Islamic practice otherwise it would be practiced in Indonesia, the largest Islamic nation. FGM is an African tribal practice and is carried out by some tribal groups that happen to be Christian, Animist, or Muslim. Its a horrible practice but definitly not a Muslim one!Honor Killings are equally horrible but again not a Muslim practice. Honor Killings take place all over the world. As a woman violence against women takes place everywhere, all over the world, and even here in the US. You men really don't get that do you?

As for what Israel is doing in Gaza its a war crime. I do not think Israel should be given a free pass for causing the suffering of a civilian population. Its against the Geneva convention and a whole slew of UN resolutions. Luckily many thoughtful Israelis and former IDF soldiers are now speaking out about the suffering of the Palestinians. Unlike the right wing Likudnics on this board, who love to bandy about the term anti-semite to anyone with reasonable criticism of Israel, these are the Israelis I admire.

As for my taxdollars fund this crap I do have the right to comment on it. I'd prefer to cut all aid off. If that happened I think you'd see peace tomorrow.

dcbeltway my friend ... its always nice to read your level-headed well researched facts and opinions.

DC who is calling who an anti-Semite? There are those on here who express those opinions in a fairly straightfoward manner, but is someone calling you that?

I'd call you naive and shortsighted, what benefit is it to human rights for arabs to control sovereignty over more land? You are right, a lot of the nastier aspects of "islam" today are really elements of arab culture. However, the islamic world has hitched itself to the causes and culture of the arab one.

And that's the real problem with islam.

Gross.

It seems that the more emotional people get about this, the less intelligent.

C'mon folks, people are suffering intensely in Gaza. Are we so callous as to blame this generation for the deeds of past generations? And how the heck are we supposed to find out what really happened or who is really to blame? Anyone living in the US knows that history is written by conquerers. If this region is ever going to find peace, it is imperative to stop the blame cycle. Revenge is the result of blame. As long as Isrealis deny their role in the violence being played out, it will continue.

I've been thinking about pyschology- it is one of the most well understood phenomenons that people who have experienced trauma are likely to play it out later. It is also well known that those who are intensely self-identified will have a really hard time seeing the situation clearly. That is why Bill Ury, among others, is so strongly advocating a Third Side perspective. From this Third Side, as a person who is neither Jewish nor Palestinian, it is abundantly clear that regardless of the past the people in Gaza are being squashed. Ruthlessly squashed. Furthermore, I cannot comprehend the myopia that prevents Israelis from recognizing their complicity in the suicide bombings.

I am not interested in blaming either side for the mess over there, but it is clearly a mess. And because the Israelis are the ones with the most resources and the most firepower, resolution is clearly in their hands. Or they could just hold out for another decade or so until all the Palestinians in Gaza are dead. Which, from the outside, seems like just what they are doing.

Gross.

Under, what past are you talking about? People in Gaza TODAY are constantly trying to kill israeli civilians, then cheering and marching in the streets when they pull it off.

Let them suffer a bit of their own medicine.

mikep wrote: "The Palestinians began this war a long time ago and are entirely responsible for it."

When I hang out with little kids who start fighting, I don't care "who started it." This is a 4 year-old justification for violence.

mikep also writes: "All they have to do is accept the rulings of the UN, the basic tenets of international law and recognize Israel."

Um, what about the Geneva Conventions (international law) that condemn Israeli occupation of Palestinian land illegal?

"Progressive" and others ranting in a similar vein just prove my point that y'all are absolutely unwilling to consider perspectives outside of your own...such close-mindedness is the reason some people feel they have to communicate with violence.

Good to see you also gyptian, my friend. Sad to see that CD is again overwhelmed with trolls. Oh well.

As someone who travels to the Middle East frequently and speaks languages of the region, I am hardley naive and short-sighted Progress/Holden. I think your blanket anti-Arab Islamophonic attitude is obnoxious. You're the real anti-semite on this board. Last time I checked the Arabs were semites also.

TheMiddleRoad May 3rd, 2008 6:21 pm
"Israel primary goal, the one most Israelis can agree upon, is to protect herself. With wave after wave of attack, Israel has done the only non-suicidal thing she could:"

You have got to be kidding. That's the same lie Bush tells to attempt to cover his international crimes....Protecting the American people. He bombed Afghanistan into rubble to protect us from the threat of Bin Laden. Then suddenly, he had to protect us from Saddam Hussein's WMDs before the smoking gun became a mushroom cloud. So he bombed Iraq into rubble. And now, Bush has to protect us from the threat of Iran's nuclear weapons. And you know he has to.......

Israel, and the USA, beleive putting forth lies give them the right thumb their nose at any law or treaty and commit atrocities and/or genocide when and where they choose.

progress
there is an old very true saying, he who lives by the sword , dies by the sword. One day the world will be corrected and a good start is don't vote for a person who is pro Israel first and America second. I don't feel Diebold can control the whole country, yet.

It's funny how those like Progress give Israel the free pass on the atrocities they commit as if the there were no blood on its hands. I am not even refering to Palestinian blood. If the British had really decided to do something to the Zionist terrorists back in the days there would be no state of Israel today. Many Zionist apologist will argue the pure fight that Israel supposedly endures against the enemies it has created but will never acknowledge the terrorist acts it has commited and if you even bother to bring up examples, the Holocaust and the cries of anti-semitism are the only counter-arguments they can come up with.

I personally am glad the Zionists are finally coming out strong in these posts. The arguments that they make are so hypocritical and illogical yet they help bring back a spark to these posts that is sometimes lacking. It may seem like a waste of time to argue with them, but you have to admit that it helps strengthen your convictions against what you know is truly wrong.

Israel is a "welfare" state and has been one since Britain and the US decided to use it for their own agendas. The victims have become the victimizers and have therefore lost any credibility that they once might have had.

Full Metal:
Being a little older the way the Zionist posting are reminds me of the Hitler Youth movement. Brain washed little asses who from a young age have been told what to say and think. Plus I feel some of the postings are young button pushers grooving off their name on a computer screen with one finger on their mouse and the other pulling their joy stick.

My brother is pro Israel and I just lost all hope of ever showing him the truth of the world. It reminded me of the Titanic while talking to him blaming the iceburg and not the Captain.
Vote pro American in Nov

XigXag - You seem to have made riddimboy's prophecy a reality.

Here's the problem for the Zionists, some of which — as always when Israel is being criticized — show up here to repeat their tired, amoral, supremacist drivel: no one's buying it anymore.

I talk to people from all walks of life, all backgrounds, and rarely do I hear a good word about Israel. In fact, I am surprised how many people seem to think it would make the world a better place if it did not exist.

The Zionists would do well to consider that Americans (not to mention the rest of the world) have grown tired of the eternal victim ploy, and see Zionism for what it is: textbook racism, a narcissistic movement of arrogant supremacists who have lulled themselves into beleiving we are all to stupid to see them for what they truly are.

The Gaza prison camp - by Nonie Darwish, Huffington Post, 16 March 2008
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nonie-darwish/the-gaza-prison-camp_b_91800.html

'I lived in Gaza as a child in the 1950s when Egypt conducted guerrilla-style operations against Israel from Gaza, then under Egyptian control. My father commanded these operations, carried out by "fedayeen," (which means, "self sacrifice"). This became the frontline of Arab Jihad against Israel. My father was killed by Israel in a targeted assassination in 1956.

Today the Gaza Strip, now under the control of Hamas, has become the Gaza prison camp for 1.5 million Palestinians and continues to serve as the launching pad for attacks against Israeli citizens.

This is the legacy of the Arab world's Palestinian refugee policy, started 60 years ago, when the Arab League implemented special laws regarding Palestinians that all Arab countries had to abide by. Arab countries could not absorb Palestinians. Even if a Palestinian married a citizen of an Arab country, that Palestinian could not become a citizen of his or her spouse's country. A Palestinian can be born, live and die in an Arab country, but never gain its citizenship. Even now I receive e-mails from Palestinians telling me they cannot have a Syrian passport, for example, and must remain Palestinian even though they have never set foot in the West Bank or Gaza. Forcing the Palestinian identity on them is designed to perpetuate the Palestinian refugee status. Palestinians have been used and abused by Arab nations, and by Palestinian terrorists, for the purpose of destroying Israel.

The 22 Arab states certainly do not have a shortage of land. Many surrounding Arab areas, such as the Sinai Peninsula, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, are very sparsely populated. But absorbing Palestinians would end their refugee status and their desire to harm Israel.

Arab wealth, which is increasing dramatically because of skyrocketing oil prices, is not used to improve the lives, infrastructure and economy of the people of the West Bank and Gaza. Instead, it supports terror groups who reject Israel's existence and oppose peace with Israel. The average Gaza man has a better employment opportunity if he joins Hamas.'

[...]

'The world needs to understand that this dangerous mess started when 22 Arab countries agreed to create a human prison called the Gaza Strip. Arabs claim they love the Palestinian people, but they seem more interested in sacrificing them. It is time for the Arab world to open their side of the borders and absorb the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza who wish to be absorbed. It is time for the Arab world to truly help the Palestinians, not use them.'

Mikep, a typical Zionist, says:

"All they have to do is accept the rulings of the UN, the basic tenets of international law and recognize Israel."

Um, I think Israel is in violation of a few UN mandates and resolutions (over 60 vetoed by the US), is in constant violation of international law (Geneva Convention) and has never recognized the Palestinians right to exist. But then, for him to understand this would require something akin to a conscience or some sort of moral compass.

He further sneers:

"In other words, eliminate the Jews from the land they've been on for 3,000 years, so that the Arabs can steal it."

Okay, I'll bite. So your family has been living there for 3,000 years? Really? My guess is they probably have been in Europe most of that time, but I could be wrong. My other guess would be you are as much a Semite as I am an Eskimo. I think a little DNA testing is in order, to silence supremacists such as you.

But let's say I'm wrong. For the past 3,000 years, mikeP's family has herded their sheep, grown their olives and the like in Palestine. His grandparents still live there. And the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians driven from their homes to make room for his relatives from Brooklyn? They were just camping there. And the fact that the place has been called "Palestine" for, oh, just centuries, is a coincidence.

Yup.

The typical Arab is an illiterate barbarian, and almost all are abysmally ill educated about their own history, much less that of any other peoples.

I'm looking for a sort of 'People's History of the Arabs' to document in detail at least two thousand years of atrocities committed by Arabs.

I have a question. Is there any 'progressive' solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that does NOT involve Israeli Jews being ruled over by non-jews?

Apollonionius - Thanks for making my point about Zionists and their tired, amoral, supremacist drivel. Please keep it up. You reinforce superbly what most people here and elsewhere already believe.

opeluboy:
the reason Israel keeps reminding and accusing people is the fear they have of people starting to treat Israel just like everyone else and not special and hold them accountable for their actions.
The crimes happened over 63 years ago during a World war to me doesn't give them a special pass.