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Supreme Court Gives Republicans a Boost
WASHINGTON - In a decision with major implications for the November national elections, the U.S. Supreme Court Monday upheld a controversial state law that Democrats and a number of national civil rights groups believe could undermine the right of tens of thousands of poor and minority voters to cast ballots.
Six of the court's nine justices ruled that Indiana's voter-identification law, which requires all voters to produce a government-issued photo identification at their polling places, did not violate the Constitution, as Democrats and a number of national civil rights organisations had argued.
Writing for the majority, Justine John Paul Stevens asserted that the state had a "valid interest" in preventing voter fraud and that, "on the basis of the record that has been made in this litigation, we cannot conclude that the statute imposes 'excessively burdensome requirements' on any class of voters."
Noting that the law was passed by the Republican-dominated legislature and signed by the state's Republican governor, Stevens noted that "simply because partisan interests may have provided one motivation for the votes of individual legislators" did not invalidate other justifications for the law.
But three of the justices said they disagreed. "Indiana's 'Voter ID law' threatens to impose a nontrivial burden on the voting right of tens of thousands of the state's citizens, and a significant percentage of those individuals are likely to be deterred from voting," wrote Justice David Souter, who also noted that the state had failed to offer evidence that voter fraud of the kind the law was purportedly designed to address was a significant problem.
Democrats also decried the majority's conclusion. "The court's decision today places obstacles to the fundamental rights of American citizens -- especially the poor, the elderly, and individuals with disabilities -- to participate in the electoral process," said the speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi.
Democrats are particularly concerned because unprecedented numbers of voters -- particularly younger voters who historically have been least likely to take part in elections -- are turning out for the party's primary elections this year, most of them driven by the excitement generated by Illinois Sen. Barack Obama's campaign and the certainty that they will be able to vote for the first African American or the first woman to be the presidential candidate of one of the two major U.S. parties. The party is hoping that enthusiasm will produce a record turnout -- which tends to favour Democrats -- in November.
Monday's decision marks the judicial culmination, at least for now, of a raging controversy between Republicans, who have claimed that vote fraud is a significant problem in many parts of the U.S., and Democrats, who argue that Republicans are using voter identification laws to suppress the turnout by voters -- particularly the poor, racial minorities, and the elderly -- who are more likely to vote Democratic.
In 2005, Indiana's then-Republican-dominated state legislature approved the nation's most restrictive voter-identification law that also created the basis for a similar, but slightly less restrictive, Georgia law that was passed by its legislature the following year.
The Indiana law requires voters to present government-issued photo identification, normally a driver's license or a passport, to election monitors when they show up at their polling place. Several organisations, including the Indiana Democratic Party, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), and the National Association for the Advancement of Coloured People (NAACP), immediately challenged the law, arguing that it imposed undue burdens on eligible voters who lacked the required identification.
"What does the court's decision say about the direction this country is headed on voting rights?" said Maude Hurd, the president of ACORN, a national anti-poverty group that has helped 1.8 million people register to vote. "It seems we are ready to turn back the clock on gains made in civil rights to ensure all Americans have a voice in the electorate and go back to rules that make it easier for one group to vote than it is for another."
A series of studies have found that between 10 and 13 percent of eligible voters don't own the kinds of identification currently required by Indiana, according to Justin Levitt, a counsel at the Brennan Centre for justice at New York University's School of Law, which filed a "friend of the court" brief in the Indiana case.
One 2007 Indiana study found that 13.3 percent of registered voters there lack the required ID, including more than 18 percent of registered black voters and more than 20 percent of voters aged 18 to 34.
"There are millions of eligible voters who don't have the ID these laws require -- senior citizens who don't drive, students, the disabled, low-income people, all of whom have the right to vote," said Kathryn Kolbert, president of People for the American Way Foundation (PAWF), a liberal civil rights groups, which also filed a supporting brief in the case. "These laws are intended to suppress voter turnout."
While Republicans insist that such laws are intended only to prevent voter fraud, they have been hard put to provide evidence that in-person voting -- as opposed to absentee voting where some fraud has taken place -- has been a problem in recent years.
Among Republicans, noted the former political director for the Texas Republican Party, Royal Masset, in an interview with the Houston Chronicle last year, it is an "article of religious faith that voter fraud is causing us to lose elections." He told the newspaper that he personally didn't agree with that assessment but added that requiring photo identification could reduce legitimate Democratic voting enough to effectively add three percent to the Republican vote.
Indiana is one of more than 20 states that passed restrictive voter identification laws, although Indiana, Georgia, and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Florida, are by far the most restrictive. In some states, for example, photo identification could be satisfied by student cards, credit cards, or employee-issued identification; in other states, utility bills or rental receipts may be sufficient.
Levitt said he did not expect other states to pass Indiana-like legislation before the November elections, but Monday's decision "makes it likely that the identification laws in Indiana, Georgia, and Florida will be in effect in November and will keep otherwise eligible voters -- well into the thousands and maybe tens of thousands -- from voting."
Levitt and the ACLU noted that three of the justices, including Stevens, who voted to uphold the law in the face of a direct constitutional challenge, left open the possibility they could change their minds in a case brought by an eligible voter who was actually prevented from voting because of its identification requirements.
"We are very disappointed with today's decision," said ACLU legal director Steven Shapiro, "but it leaves the door open to future challenges in Indiana and elsewhere by registered voters who are denied their right to vote based on onerous and unconstitutional voter ID laws."
Evidence of dozens of such denials has been collected in recent elections in both Indiana and Georgia, although it is impossible to know how many voters without the required identification decided to stay home rather than try to cast their ballots, according to Levitt.
© 2008 Inter Press Service

59 Comments so far
Show AllLet's not forget that right wing Hillary Clinton type Democrats generally voted in favor of Bush's supreme court appointments.
Talk about STUPIDITY and a death wish.
"on the basis of the record that has been made in this litigation, we cannot conclude that the statute imposes 'excessively burdensome requirements' on any class of voters."
Easy to say when you're a government employee with full benefits and a decent salary. On the other hand, there are millions without jobs and no money to spend on food and shelter. In this light, how in hell can Justice Stevens conclude that the statute doesn't impose an excessive burden on any class of voters, especially when food pantries are begging for donations due to the increase in people's inability to feed themselves and their families who are now relying on charity to survive?
The hubris in all three branches of this government is beyond contempt!
For those feeling the need to express themselves in all caps, you may have something of great import to convey, but it makes my head hurt and I've long since stopped trying to read such posts. I just keep on scrolling.
Are my eyes deceiving me? Did I read that Rethuglicans are concerned about voter-election fraud? Have they been looking in the mirror lately or what.
haha
Funny how the Right was yelling how the Left interpreted the Constitution to fit their own agenda, and how we needed those in the Supreme Court who'd interpret it as it was meant to be. Sure!
After what they did in 2000, I'm no longer surprised by anything they come up with.
I keep thinking about what it was like when JFK was running for President, and the country was up in arms over the idea that the Pope could end up running the country. Now our Supreme Court, the majority making all the decisions, are all Catholics.
It's a Republican Supreme Court, appointed with the assistance of "Democrats". So of course they will find for Republicans and corporations, that's why they were appointed. Working people? Cannon fodder for the MIC.
I read that our Gini index is reaching the level of civil unrest and revolution. Now if only our public wasn't so uninformed and medicated on sedatives and TV and junk food, we might have one.
What we need is a good old fashioned draft to wake up. And we might get one yet. You know, Bomb bomb bomb Iran. Courtesy of the two hawk candidates. Or even the October surprise coming up.
kathyodat
I'm not for republicans or democrats, I just have one question: What is the big deal about having to bring a drivers liscence or ID to vote. Having an ID could be considered essential. Even if you don't have a drivers liscence you still have to have a normal ID card just to buy certain medicines, get a job, buy alchohol, etc. Why shouldn't you have to have one to vote? I would think it would be a good thing, you know, to make sure someone hasn't voted twice or voted when they shouldn't have in the first place (illegal immigrants for example)? I don't think it's disenfranchising anyone considering they are quite easy to get and cost around 15 bucks.
Democrats have only themselves to blame. They keep approving all these partisan Republicans for the court.
Actually there's three hawk candidates. See Obama's praise for Bush's chosen general for the war with Iran for just the latest evidence.
Note: For the Republicans, 'voter fraud' is anytime a non-Republican gets to vote.
Luckily, our votes don't count anyway!
Disenfranchising over 10% of legitimate voters is not vote fraud?
However, a poll tax is unconstitutional, so this law requires the state of Indiana to issue free photo ID.
Why worry about bringing some ID?
Diebold et al. have this election all sewn up, ready to hand to McCain.
That is, if there even is an election...
There hasn't been a 'democratic' election in the US since 1996.
And they said that driver's licenses would never become a de facto national ID. First you need one to board a plane, now you need one to vote. "Your papers, vere are your papers!?" Pretty soon policemen will be able to stop you on the street and demand your ID for no reason at all. Oh, wait a minute. . .
As gde wrote above, if such identification is a requirement in order to vote, then the "State" is obligated to supply one. However, I could be wrong, I don't think that having a government issued I.D. is a legal requirement in this country.
Interesting that they are so concerned with eliminating voting behavior of which there is not record of said behavior happening or being a problem. On the other hand, it is acceptable to have voting machines that can be manipulated and have no means of checking the authenticity of the votes tabulated.
Neo-con hat tricking us into trusting Bush's
sycophants in black dresses and now the
center classes can't hold, things fall apart.
"I don't think it's disenfranchising anyone considering they are quite easy to get and cost around 15 bucks." writes ziggymoonunit.
Not if you don't have access to transportation, knowledge of the requirement or the money required. Some people do not have $15 bucks to spare; said $15 bucks (if they even have it) may be needed for food, medication and/or some other health care related expense,rent, utilities, etc.
JBPM April 29th, 2008 4:18 pm
"Luckily, our votes don't count anyway!"
JBPM - but they do! How else would they be able to manipulate the outcome of elections if there were no numbers to work with?
ziggmoonunit, $15, obviously not a big deal for you, is only the beginning. Many people have to get to the county seat to get a birth certificate (more money). Some people are house bound and vote absentee - another problem for them. There are people who don't even have a birth certificate.
This actually will disenfranchise poor and minority voters, which was after all, the intent. There is no documentation of significant voter fraud requiring IDs. A dozen cases natonwide is ridiculous, compared to as much as 8 million uncounted votes in the last election, which is not being addressed - even though Democrats would profit enormously from doing so. Oh, I forgot, the Republicans wouldn't like that, and the Democrats don't want to piss off the Republicans.
kathyodat
ziggymoonunit
Don't know where you live. In Illinois, you'd better have a birth certificate. (They don't allow baptismal certificates anymore, either.)
If memory serves, it cost me $15, plus a significant wait, to get a birth certificate from out of state. Plus the ID costs $25 here. That's $40, plus writing a letter, plus spending hours on a school- or work-day at the DMV - or whatever office handles *your* state ID services.
Let's see, a birth certificate, the cost of the ID itself, 4-6 hours' wages lost... Doesn't add up to $15 using my (internal) calculator.
Not everyone already has one, by any means. A lot of students use their university photo IDs, (as I used to do), and a lot of workers use their employment photo IDs, for doing their banking, etc., as well as alcohol and tobacco purchases. I don't recall ever needing any ID to pick up a prescription.) How many people are in jobs they had before more stringent ID regulations were adopted? How many people opened their bank accounts before Big Brother decided to stick his nose even deeper into your banking? (And how many people have never had a bank account at all?) Plus, some employers still accept university (or other) photo IDs, I'm told.
The poll tax was about $1.50, according to the only source I could find that quoted a figure (in the first two two pages of results for my search).
Can anyone out there tell us how $1.50 in (approx) 1900 dollars compares with $30 plus half a day's wages at minimum pay? (I picked 1900, because it was roughly the mid-point: the source gave the years of the poll tax as 1889-1910.)
http://www.fairvote.org/?page=875
Does anybody have a bottom line on whether the states adopting such statutes will be required to distribute free IDs - and whether/how they would be held responsible for 'backlogs'?
wilmoor said: "Now our Supreme Court, the majority making all the decisions, are all Catholics."
Interesting, isn't it, that the Repukes, especially their evangelical enablers, generally consider Catholics pagans and the Pope the devil himself. They wouldn't normally piss on a Catholic if he were on fire. But since they are guaranteed anti-abortion votes, they are sought and wooed for the highest court. All part of the GOP's fascist one-party plan. Not to worry, though - climate change will take out all of humanity, rich and poor, in the next 50 years.
Let's not forget that right wing Hillary Clinton type Democrats generally voted in favor of Bush's supreme court appointments.
Talk about STUPIDITY and a death wish.
I agree with everyone who hates Republicans. They're bluntskulls.
But you folks who think producing a photo ID to vote is unconstitutional are a little crazy. Photo IDs are free in some states, less than $20 in others.
The money spent on fighting this case all the way to the Supreme Court - only to lose - could have paid for a photo ID for everyone in the nation who doesn't have one. Get real.
What services help people get to distant destinations? How difficult is making appointments - and doesn't that interfere with school/work/duties at home, etc.? (Can one always fit one's schedule to someone else's?) Don't forget the added burden of travelling: for some people, it's a bigger burden than you seem to realize. Even in a large city, there are people who can't get around well, say, because of fragile health. A several-hour ride-wait-ride would be prohibitive for them.
The big deal about having to bring a drivers license is that many seniors and minoritys don't have a photo id and they will have trouble finding a birth certificate that is over 50 years old and some minorities may find it difficult to find their birth certificate. What this amounts to is harnessing the Democratic vote. It's nothing more than robbery and the trail leads directly to the Supreme court that knows seniors and the minority aren't fools: they see corruption and trickery far quicker than our youth. It's the seniors who have been around and seen more especially when the press was allowed to investigate the truth. How about recalling the whold damn Supreme Court?
I don't know what the rules are now but I never had to bring my birth certificate to get my drivers liscence, I just brought my social security card. And while it might sound like $15 isn't a big deal for me, it is. I live paycheck to paycheck just like a number of people in this country. What I'm saying is a cost like that can be planned ahead for. There are also usually organizations that will help people that are elderly, or poor that have no transportation, to get things that they need.
"Supreme Court Gives Republicans a Boost"
God knows they needed one! A few thousand more boosts and maybe they shall be lifted from the slime in which they reside.
What do you expect from a "stacked" court?
What is wrong with bringing the lease and the phone bill if one wishes to vote!
A clear example of class warfare. Unfortunately, the ruling class is winning, thanks to their ownership of the government.
Why didn't they make all the repugs show their pictures when Bus/cheney stole the election twice? Cowards will do anything except defend our country. This country has become a world wide pit of shame and disgrace. Yet the repugs can't see a thing wrong.Put all the republicans in Iran just before they turn it into a parking lot for no reason at all as they did Iraq. That will benefit mankind more than anything. Is this to strong for you Common dreams?
A more pressing issue than having a repug congress or prez is the federal courts, all the way to the supreme court. As mentioned above, it is now stacked with repugs, with the dem's help (Roberts, Alito, et al). The ultimate important decisions in this country will end up going all the way to the Scalito Court and guess what decision will be made? The next prez, drilling in ANWR, putting all of us CD commentors in Gitmo, etc. I'll take a large orange jumpsuit please.
BTW, I saw where scalia said that torture is not cruel or unusual. If we were to comment on that in a way such as our buddy limbaugh, we might be singing (to the tune of white xmas) something about scalia and torture.
Remind me again how rush can say those kinds of things and o'really? can suggest a linching party for Michelle Obama and get away with it without being put in jail or at least lose their privilege of being on the mainstream conservative media? I'll be waiting for the FCC to respond...
I'm still waiting...
Whenever we are forced to drive down though 'Gunland' to get to Mexico my wife and I enjoy listening to your talk radio stations and counting the Hate Crimes - usually dozens an hour. Rush 'Wormtongue' Limbaugh is a masterpiece of wanton ignorance and malice!
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Remember how Gore caved in in 2000 while the Republicans sent operatives to Florida.
You have to want to win.
You know, republicans say democrats are unpatriotic, while they dodge the draft. With a cowardly bully, you need to go on the offensive-they cave. At time Limbaugh has backed off, O reily, etc.
Go on the offensive.
Simple school yard tactics.
GREAT CARTOON..NICE!
MAYBE THEY NEED SOME WATERBORDING...? SEE IF THERE HAS BEEN ANY "OUTSIDE PRESSURE" FROM SAY...OHH..I DUNNO..THE "WHITE" HOUSE? HMM..IT'S POSSIBLE.
YOU KNOW WHAT? WHERE ARE THE FUCKING "REPUBLICANS ARE THE PARTY OF SMALLER GOVERNMENT" STUPID STUBBORNS?
WHERE ARE THE "COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVES"?..FOR SURELY THIS IS AN ACT OF "AGGRESSION" TOWARD CERTAIN CITIZENS.
WHERE ARE THE "UNITERS NOT DEVIDERS"? FOR SURELY THIS IS A DEVISIVE ISSUE..OF MAJOR PROPORTIONS..
WHERE IS THE "LIBERAL MEDIA"?..FOR SURELY THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT A "LIBERAL MEDIA" WOULD FIND OUTRAGEOUS..
WHERE ARE THESE REPUBLICANS? THEY ARE LIARS TO THE EXTENT, AT THIS POINT, OF...SAY..."MELTING CLOCKS...?" AS IN SURREAL IS THE SHERE VOLUME OF LIES...LIES THAT GO SO FAR BEYOND "SPIN" THAT THERE IS SIMPLY NO COMPARISON..NO REALITY TO ANYTHING THEY SAY..
AND..UNFORTUNATELY..WHERE ARE THE DEMOCRATS? THOSE THAT SHOULD BE TAKING ON THESE EVIL AUTHORITARIAN MINDED "REPUBLICANS"...WHERE ARE THEY?
THIS IS GETTING TO THE POINT..THAT..THERE IS REALLY LESS AND LESS "DOUBT" ABOUT WHERE THIS IS ALL GOING...IT IS COMING TO A HEAD...A POINT OF "NO RETURN"...
THE NEW COLD WAR, FOR AMERICA..
IS A COLD....CIVIL WAR...ANOTHER ONE...AND IT IS HEATING UP...AND IT IS ALL PART OF THE PLAN..SOME THINK TANK PLAN TO DEVIDE AND CONQUER...LIKE THE IRAQI'S..WE TOO..WILL BE DEVIDED AND THEN ABUSED..WHY ELSE WOULD YOU NEED TO RID THE LAW OF SOMETHING LIKE POSSE COMITTATUS (SIC?)..WHY? SO THAT CALIFORNIA HATERS CAN BE PLACED IN CALIFORNIA TO ABUSE THE LOCALS WITHOUT HESITATION..ALTHOUGH IN "OPERATION SUDDEN IMPACT" TWO WEEKS AGO...THE FEDS PROVED THAT "LOCAL" AUTHORITIES HAVE NO PROBLEM ABUSING THEIR "OWN"...
BUT..I MUST ASK...WHERE ARE THE RESISTANCE MOVEMENTS..THE ACTUAL EFFECTIVE RESISTANCE MOVEMENTS...TO THESE KINDS OF ABUSES OF POWER THAT ARE SO..PATENTLY BLATANT..THAT THEY SCREAM OUT TO BE EXPOSED FOR WHAT THEY ARE...SCHEMES...SCHEMES TO AVOID THE RULE OF ONE LAW FOR EVERYONE...
THE FINAL POINT I HAVE TO MAKE IS..WHY? IN GENERAL?
THIS IS SO OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO WORK OUT IF AMERICA WISHES TO REMAIN A "CAPITLIST" SOCIETY...AND THE ECONOMY IS THE PROOF..IT ISN'T WORKING..AND WHERE DO THEY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET THE MONEY IF THE PEOPLE HAVE NO MONEY?
SO..WHAT DOES IT MEAN..IT MEANS THAT LIKE THE GREAT FASCIST BEFORE THEM, THE NEOCONVICTS ARE GOING TO INVADE..."RUSSIA IN THE WINTER" AND...FAIL...THAT IS THE EQUIVALENT TO TRYING TO MAKE AMERICA SOMEHOW BOTH A POLICE STATE..AND A CONSUMER SOCIETY IN WHICH THIS SAME POLICE STATE IS PAID FOR BY THE TAXES ON GOODS AND SERVICES AND INCOME...WITHOUT WHICH..WHO PAY'S?
AGAIN..IT CANNOT WORK..AND WILL NOT..BUT THEY ALWAY'S MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE..ALONG WITH "TURING ON THEIR OWN" FASCISTS CAN ALWAY'S BE COUNTED ON TO NOT SEE THE "BIG PICTURE" DESPITE HAVING ALL THE MONEY IN THE UNIVERSE..THEY BLOW IT EVERY TIME...UNFORTUNATELY..ALLOT OF PEOPLE..MILLIONS...DIE EVERY TIME AS WELL..SO..GET READY FOR THIS ONE FOLKS..IT'S HERE...ALL THAT IS MISSING IS THE NEXT..."OCTOBER SURPRISE" AND THEN..NATIONAL 'EMERGENCEY' AND VOILA'...POLICE STATE..ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THIS IS IN PLACE...ALL THE "LAWS"...SO..GET READY...
SEE YOU IN THE TRENCHES..MAYBE..
LIVE FREE OR DIE
Please, folks, keep your fingers off the CAPS LOCK. It makes it so difficult to read your posts, even when we want to!
The scumbag Scalia court is the biggest anchor of fascism in Amerika today. This poll tax reversal and their overturning of 70 years of precedent in the recent equal pay case are typical of their fascist/racist/sexist support of the plutocracy over American citizens. Easily the most despicable group of lying fascists in the world today.
" lillulu April 29th, 2008 3:30 pm
... Did I read that Rethuglicans are concerned about voter-election fraud? Have they been looking in the mirror lately or what."
THAT SEEMS to be what the article says, and they evidently are indeed concerned; it's just a question of what this is really based on, and we can easily realise that whatever the reason is, it's invalid, and most surely self-serving interest action. Maybe they're concerned about not winning the election in November; make sense for possibility, do you think?
I think it is their concern, that is, treasonous concern.
-------------------------
However, I also wonder how much it costs to get a photo. id. card. If it's very little, then maybe most voters the article says are vulnerable could afford an appropriate id. card. If not, then perhaps the states requiring such id. could provide an id. card for free; f.e., they could provide such cards just like the govt provides us our social security number cards for free, that is, as covered with tax dollars.
The SSN card is from federal govt, but I'll use the analogy anyway; and regardless of the (I suppose anyway) fact that photo. id. would be a little more expensive than a SSN card, if the federal charge for this. The cost still is relatively insignificant, particuarly with what's at issue herein.
I believe the states could certainly afford to provide this for their residents, those eligible to vote; just a question of not being GREEDY and emphasising or promoting the importance of democracy and social or socio-economic justice. A little generosity sometimes goes a "long way", can be very rewarding in various ways; if not in one way, then in another.
Ideally, this Supreme Court ruling will be reversed, but if not, then apply a different strategy, and the above is the one that comes to my mind. It would be better to try a different strategy, than it would be to blindly continue trying the failing strategy repeatedly. To err once is fine, if we learn from it; to keep repeating the same mistake is ... dumb and as if not really wanting to win.
Like in team sports, they define and apply or attempt different strategies, and if one fails, then another is tried. They rarely have only one strategy for reference or application [before] heading into a game or match, and if they begin with only one strategy in mind, which I believe occurs very rarely, and their sole strategy fails, then they'll work on coming up with another one to try and during the same game, for they want to win it.
And if the poor can't afford the id. cards and states refuse to provide something adequate for free, then there's always The People, who could step in and finally start to demonstrate that they [are] the govt, they decide. Those capable of doing so could easily donate funds to help the poor who are eligible to vote to get these id. cards. After all, even $2 donations would be good, as long as enough people contributed; $1 each, even. And the donations should not need to be accepted from only residents of these incredibly demanding states. After all, it's federal elections in November that we speak of; I believe.
What about each presidential candidate donating say $1mn each from their campaign funds, which they have en masse of to be able to spare this amount for this cause, I wonder. In order to eliminate democratic unfairness, these donations could be pooled together and applied indiscriminately, for the money would only be for the purpose of helping poor eligible voters to get a type of id. card that'll be accepted by the very demanding states. The partisanship should be eliminated with the use of such funds, else people would have cause to claim that this would be a way of trying to buy votes, which is Wrong.
One way or another, The People need to focus on emphasing [democracy] and justice, I figure.
" BeForKids April 29th, 2008 6:28 pm
ziggmoonunit, $15, obviously not a big deal for you, is only the beginning."
I agree. It's a bit [much] for just a voter id. card; particularly for the poor. And ... as per my above post.
"There are people who don't even have a birth certificate."
How is that possible, unless the certificates have been lost and the owners haven't sought to get replacements; or the persons are immigrants from countries that don't issue BC's, say? I am not sure, but believe everyone born in the USA gets a BC.
"This actually will disenfranchise poor and minority voters, which was after all, the intent."
Yes, it seems to be evidently for that reason. Yet, ..., as per my above post, the second part of it.
"There is no documentation of significant voter fraud requiring IDs."
Jim Lobe says that while that is true nationally, or for people who don't vote absentee, it's happened with some who have voted that way; while adding, I believe, that the number of these cases is small, or tiny, relatively speaking anyway.
"as much as 8 million uncounted votes in the last election"
WHAT?! I had read that there were a considerably large number of uncounted votes, but don't recall the number and wouldn't have imagined that it'd be anywhere as high as 8mn.
Damn, 8mn UNCOUNTED votes?! Even 1mn?!
What the hell is going on?! Hell is!
And yes, Democrats have been corrupt for not demanding that these votes be counted and, I guess we could add, with independent verifiers, perhaps people from other countries too, to do this as safely as possible.
"I forgot, the Republicans wouldn't like that,"
Like they proved to be the case in January 2000, when the RP refused a recount and the DP made itself criminally or despotically complicit with this, both contributing to ensuring the hijacking of the presidency, you mean?!
ascott: I'm in Florida (yes, the home of hanging chads and every other election screw up, the laughing stock of the nation).
Here, if you are going to by alchohol, tobacco, or do any banking, you have to have a state issued ID or drivers liscence. The medicine might just be for our state. We seem to have such a high concentration of meth users that you have to have an ID to buy cold medicine and a few other meds.
And again, it could be just our state, and it might be because of the high number of retirees, but we do have non profit organizations that help with the elderly when it comes to getting meals and running errands. Some of them also help lower income people that don't have a means of transportation.
Needing an ID to vote at a polling site shouldn't be an issue of disenfranchising anyone. We have so many programs here to help people like the poor and elderly, I don't see why other states wouldn't have the same things. Don't churches and homeless shelters and other programs for the needy/elderly exist in other states? I wouldn't think Florida is the only one.
Sorry to be the bearer of more bad news folks, but we are SCREWED! Not that the power brokers needed this. They've got Diebold, but this just kinda crosses the t's and dots the i's. As I said, if there was anything left of democratic structures, there are no longer. We the people have no representation. It's a done deal. It's all over but the shouting.
ziggy---good for Florida but there are 50 states and few have the kind of services for the poor and elderly you describe. bt hey! Good for you and good for FL
ascott April 29th, 2008 8:29 pm,
Informative your post is on the costs, and I believe that $15 is higher than need be, so $25 most definitely is, and just for the cards themselves.
I never had to pay for a SSN card, and these are automatically issued for every citizen. Why not establish a simply voter id. card, which'd mean that people not wanting or needing a driver's license or birth certificate would still be able to have their id. cards for voting; also provided for free, even if really based on tax dollars the govt has more than en masse of to be able to spare some for this democratic purpose?
It'd be a good use of tax dollars the govt has collected; far better than many uses the govt atrociously spends The People's tax dollars for. Doing this would help the govt to prove to The People that their democracy is being respected by their elected officials; minimally. Else the govt will be reconfirming that the majority of members of the Congress and Senate do NOT respect The People's democracy; a theme that needs to be curbed ASAP, like yesteryears ago.
^ I was thinking along the same lines, but having tax dollars be used for a valid state ID to be free for everyone, or at least low income earners. Your post does bring up something I didn't even think of until now. Why do we need an ID and a voter ID? We already have voter ID cards here, they aren't picture IDs but I would think that could be rectified.
ziggymoonunit ,
Good idea, but why not both state and federal IDs, unless the state one would work for all possible needs of these IDs, in which case state id. seems fine enough for idea to me. If it was to be both, then state taxes could cover for the state IDs, while federal taxes cover for the federal-level IDs; as oppose to either level of govt covering for both of the IDs, if both were of real use to have.
State would probably be enough, I think; just that I'm not fully sure.
The poor should be seen to first; most unquestionably. But if this ID could be provided for all eligible voters, all not needing to pay for this, it being taken care of with the tax dollars in the govt's coffers, if there are any dollars remaining there (borrowing en masse from China, so ?); well, and then, it's a far better use of taxpayer dollars than hellbent criminal and hellishly costly crimes of govt are.
Wherein you say,
"Why do we need an ID and a voter ID? We already have voter ID cards here, they aren't picture IDs but I would think that could be rectified.",
*) People don't need two IDs when one suffices, and people who already possess a suitable ID for voting obviously don't need an additional one; and,
*) Surely the lack of photo. on the voter ID can be rectified.
I don't know what those cards are like, such as, f.e, if they're plastic and bit like a driver's license. If that's what they're like, then all that needs to be done is to add a photo to these cards issued in the future. Otherwise, they may need to remake these cards completely in order to be able to have a card to which a photo. or picture can be added; and that's not a big deal to do. It'd only be a little more expensive to do.
Anyway, I was just making a suggestion or set of them, whichever of the two it was. People residing in the USA are a little more familiar with what would be most fitting and adequate; for I had to leave in 1999 in order to have shelter, instead of being totally without. (Cardboard boxes on sidewalks or in some alleyways, whatever, and with rain and snow, this didn't particularly appeal to me; particularly when there was an option available in Quebec.)
And I have never had a voter ID card, and there is no carding here, except for the one sent in the mail by the govt; stating our names and addresses, and which voting station (whatever they're called) to go to to cast the ballots.
Cast? Hmmm, reminds of fishing, and I sort wish I hadn't had that thought; chagrin. Too poor for that too; the fishing, not the chagrin part, that is.
next it will be a drivers licence AND proof you own a Cadillac
hmmm.should I spend my last $15 on an ID card, or food for my children?
hey, DRIVE THRU VOTING!!!! The ultimate fat ass american dream
Mike Corbeil
Well, a voter ID card... Would that be federal? If $15 strikes you as too expensive, I have to ask: have you priced a US passport lately? Yes, states overcharge, but nobody overcharges like the feds.
Besides which, there are good reasons for not wanting yet another federal tracking system.
My social security card is quite old: it's a replacement card issued nearly 30 years ago. It's probably as easy to forge as a library card. (Can't say whether there's a new card available or in the works.) Personally, I don't want social security cards used for yet another purpose.
When the social security system was introduced, Congress, (in response to people's fears of federal ID programs, I think), promised that social security numbers would never be used for anything unrelated to the social security program. There's little you can do now without disclosing your social security number - and it's the key to identity theft! So, while security experts agree: be very careful not to disclose your social security number to just anyone, the government is busily finding new reasons why, and places where, you must. (To hell with the individual's security or liberty: the state must be allowed to keep tabs on everyone at all times.)
A Canadian friend told me, about twenty years ago, that voters rolls were displayed in public places - (including stores?) - and people in the area could dispute any name. I don't think it would work here: too open to abuse.
How can someone not have a birth certificate? Well, I didn't have a copy of mine for quite a while. At least, I didn't have an 'acceptable' copy by today's standards, which includes being notarized. The one I had was issued by the military hospital in which I was born: it was a reduced-sized reverse-image copy of a form that bore no resemblence to the state-issued ID. In fact, if anything, I would say that it looked more like a hospital admission form. It had more than my name and date of birth, plus my father's name, mother's name and maiden name. It also included my parents' birth states, and a few bits of medical information. There was even a place where my parents' marital status was filled in. But that hospital certificate, plus a baptismal certificate, were enough to register me for school: grade school, high school, and college. (I began to find it embarrassing: I had formally rejected my family's church well before I graduated grammar school.) I took it, along with my high school photo ID and my father's service number, to a VA office to get my military dependent's ID. Photocopies of the hospital certificate and my school ID sufficed to get me my social security card. Things were a lot simpler back then. (I was perhaps 25 when I got a certified copy of my state-issued birth certificate.)
There are three war-promoting candidates, which means the majority of the population is not represented. Sounds like a dictatorship to me.
chuck asks:
"hmmm.should I spend my last $15 on an ID card, or food for my children?"
I'd suggest he take the money out of his beer and cigarette budget.
Anyone who can't afford $15 is probably on government support and unemployed to begin with so they would have plenty of free time and my taxpayer money to get proper ID.
What a crock. If you've only got $15 left, then voting is the LEAST of your worries. That's not a valid argument. In my state, we're required to produce a photo ID to vote, and our turnout numbers have been very high.
The folks who brought the suit would have been better served by spending the money for the lawyers on buying people photo IDs. Just by arguing against photo IDs, you make yourself look like you're trying to fix elections.
Poll reform is one of the most important issues facing our country. Checks and balances are not in place, no question. But requiring a photo ID is part of those checks and balances.
Dude, where's my country? AAAAAAUUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!