" Stiv Whitman April 29th, 2008 12:03 pm

Sick stuff. 98% of the US population will never see this article."

I SURE HOPE that was true years [ago], not anymore; people should've begun to realise, and as of years [ago], that they can't rely on the corporate U.S. msm "news" media for truth, or not for more than barely a little truth anyway. And I read a number of times over the past two years, or so, that "Americans" had realised this and began looking for reporting from outside the USA and/or alternative U.S. sources; but I don't know to what extent this has been true.

---------------------------

" cindysheehan April 29th, 2008 12:03 pm

...it's time that Congress send Capitol Hill police to the VP's office…and do it before there is another pesky fire to burn any evidence. ..."

OR ANOTHER false-flag incident, maybe; another "Reichstag fire".

"Reichstag fire in 1933, which provided a pretext for the Nazis to increase their power"

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Reichstag

---------------------------

" willybill April 29th, 2008 12:18 pm

To the streets, People…to the streets!! We still have the power. Name the place and the date. PS…..Better make sure it's before these military exercise 5/1-5/8"

KEEP WATCH ON THAT!

---------------------------

" Hammo April 29th, 2008 12:23 pm

There seem to be differing legal and political opinions about whether impeachment now or legal action later against members of the Bush-Cheney administration is the wisest course of action.

Investigation and possible prosecution for crimes could be sabotaged by pardons by the current administration."

YES, there seem to be differing views, only they're not all right or valid, and the military aggression must be stopped without delay.

As for the sabotaging by applying pardons, once the Bush-Cheney team are declared to be minimally under investigation, they certainly should NO longer have any privilege to pardon anyone of anything. They don't need to be investigated in terms of whether not the military aggressions indeed are supreme international crimes, for there is no way to credibly deny that they are; it's worldwide known fact. So once Congress finally acknowledges this latter truth, then that should be accompanied by an immediate cessation of all privileges of the executive branch.

They don't need to be proven guilty; it's worldwide known fact that they most definitely, unquestionably are. And that means a jury trial is NOT required; there being NO call for one. However, there'd still be additional investigations for other and related crimes of the Bush-Cheney cabal; such as, f.e., the need to re-open the 9-11 investigations and with an independent team doing this. It would surely be good for people from other countries to be brought in for this, as is done when they go to countries at election times and in order to try to help ensure respect for democracy.

To not stop these military aggressions NOW! is to be complicit in these supreme international crimes, destructions and toxic pollution of countries, the murder of millions of innocents, and so on. There is NO time for any delays whatsoever, to stop all of these supreme crimes.

I'll take a look at the article you posted a link for, but NO amount of logic or reasoning can ethically permit us to NOT stop these damn military aggressions. The value of LIFE must be held to the highest of all priorities, nothing substituting for it; except when we naturally die and receive the substitute after-life.

---------------------------

"Dump Bush April 29th, 2008 12:30 pm

...

If impeachment proceedings do not occur a dangerous precedent will be set for all future administrations that they are above the law."

NOW that's logic I can agree with; and as you say, such an outcome must be prevented.

Furthermore, it would not only be a precedent with respect to U.S. presidential administrations; any other state leaders could do the same and, without hypocrisy, tell the U.S. govt to F*CK OFF whenever it'd try to oppose other govts from also committing supreme international crimes. The USA being the superpower means that it'd have the ability to yet again exercise its hypocrisy and hegemony, but the precedent the other govt leaders could use for diabolical excuse would still exist, or have been established, and criminally so, by the U.S. Congress.

"The ball now is in the court of" Congress, and it needs to act.

---------------------------

ezeflyer,

As you wrote, but only until someone else decides to act and remake the rules, again.

Hate Cheney, yes, but he is just doing his job for the corporate war profiteers, and in their eyes he's doing a heck of a job. When he is gone another corporate/government con artist will fill his position. It may be in a different capacity, not necessarily the VP's office.

The system has been rigged for years, this is not new. It's just that these bastards, Cheney in particular, are so wantonly arrogant and brazen that they evoke such contempt. The subtle (but devious, think Bill Clinton) tact that normally exists with political/corporatists is missing from these yahoos.

And that may be the only good to come from all this; complete exposure of the corruption, greed, and arrogance of empire, for all to see.

Question is, now what? Seems to be a paralysis everywhere. Yet I think some unforeseen, "Black Swan" event or circumstance will eventually tip over the cart of rotting corporate apples. Maybe then we can reshape our world, what's left of it.

I've been saying this for a while, but what if we started handing out these articles, on the streets? If people knew, I truly believe we could do something.

Mark my word, the Democrats will accomplish nothing. This is just more blather to make it appear that the Democrats are somehow different than Republicans.

Both parties vote for war.
Both parties vote to fund the war.
Both parties vote for the Patriot Act.
Both parties allow the torture to continue.
Both parties fund Guantanamo Bay.
Both parties are beholden to corporate interests.
Neither party supports universal, single payer health care system.
Both parties support nuclear weapons and nuclear power.

We'll never get a progressive agenda from the Democrats. It is all just an illusion and you suckers fall for it every time.

I repeat, crooks are crooks, no one likes a crook, just ask Nixon. it is time to start flooding editorial pages of our local and not so local press, and demand action , ase well as truth not sop, suckups to corpirate B.S., even PBS is sucking up, now, CARRIER, what ? and Daljit Dalewal, pimping forright wing bull**** like the comments last sunday from some bitch who works for the parent sponsored corporate think tank shill, making comments about repression in Venezuala, just dirt,,,the only repression is giving the poor land from Lord Meat of Britain, and shuting down the mouthpiece of the reactionary rich, temporaily, not unlike the threats on PBS

Hey Dick, Go Fuck Yourself

"Economic collapse and hungry bellies are the only things that will get the sustained attention of the masses. Couple that with gas shortages (not just increased prices) and we have a real shot at some fundamental changes."
--Rebel Farmer April 29th, 2008 2:08 pm

I wish I could be as sanguine about the future as you. I think of how unreachable brainwashed Americans are, and I think of how the Germans fought on with their country in Ruins. When the German soldiers were dead or exhausted, seniors and children fought on hopelessly in Berlin as Russians entered from the east and Americans invaded from the west.

That's how I think it will work out for the U.S. too. History shows that it's easier for people to starve or to die than to admit that they are wrong.

The worse things get for Americans, the more countries they will attack, the more vicious the attacks will become, and the more hateful and repressive the government will become domestically.

Good post Rebel Farmer, and "hang in there", which I'm sure you'll do. I have been feeling and thinking much as you describe for some years now, and we're now getting more crushing or very disturbing news for additional weight.

I sometimes feel all this hell is going to cause me to have a heart attack or seizure; but have learned to sense that and to immediately calm down or, and minimally, concentrate on breathe deeply and slowly, sometimes adding a little meditation.

The worst part is not being able to do anything about all this despotism, etcetera, and I mean to effectively stop it; for we obviously can protest.

As for the U.S. economy likely needing to very totally crash in order to wake up enough Americans, I thought this back in the latter half of the 1990s and sort of cursed the country, saying it needed to crash and sort of stating this in directive manner. I said 'sort of' only because my reasons were of the righteous realm, that is, principled; not out of pleasure or perversion, say.

There were a number of times that I sure hoped that curse of mine wasn't related to Bush-Cheney hijacking the presidency as swiftly as happened, and all of their additional crimes since.

But it's like you say, the USA is not going to correct itself without quite total economic collapse. It'd surely help to motivate many who have been idle, complacent, ... to finally start to be well principled and actively so. It's better than sacrificing Iraqis, Afghans, Haitians, Africans, South Americans, and etcetera; definitely.

It'll teach Americans to accept to eat 'humble pie'.

Take to the streets? We would be there by ourselves, ignored by the propaganda machine and tasered by the police for disturbing the peace.

cata, a great line from "A Few Good Men"; "I object" "Overruled" "I Strongly Object" "OVERRULED". A court system is no better than the people who appoint the judges, that's why the Senate was given the power to "advise and consent", in which responsibilities the current Senate has abdicated. So now we have hacks and idealogues making political instead of Constitutional decisions. Such as the 2000 appointment of Bush into office. Sandra Day O'Connor betrayed her oath of office with her vote, and admitted she thought Bush would be the better president, although I hear she now regrets that choice. That should not have been the basis of her decision.

The fact that this story isn't on the front page of every newspaper in the country tells us that this country is no longer a Constitutional democracy - well, republic. The rule of law no longer exists. The sad part is no one even knows it. And most young people can't even define our Constitution, or it's role in our country. The fourth estate has also betrayed it's first amendment Constitutional responsibility to be the public watchdog, becoming instead a fifth column for the corporate dictatorship.

We're seeing the results of letting the pit bulls off the leash, which is the responsibility of the House of Representatives. Pelosi needs to be removed from office. Good luck, Cindy. I hear Nancy has a Democratic opponent. If you and she split the opposition vote, will that put Nancy back in?

kathyodat

rebelnow, you're right. The system is set up so it continues to function with new psychopaths when the old ones fade away.

However, some are uniquely suited for evil, and so they keep showing up again and again. I believe that Cheney is one of them.

I just read an article in Radar magazine. It talked about the plans for martial law and COG and pointed out that plans have been laid before.

One very interesting point was that when plans were laid by Oliver North (one of those recurring psychopaths) in Rex 84, Cheney and Rumsfield were slated for positions in the COG (continuity of government, or martial law), even though Cheney was a lowly rep from Wyoming and Rumsfield wasn't even in government. He was head of a pharmaceutical company.

So I believe that these are two men deep in the underbelly of the US shadow government.

Ghawar, the reason German children and elderly took up arms is that it was the Germans turn to be invaded. Here we are stomping around the world crushing other countries, but if they banded together and pushed back and invaded us, you and I also would be fighting back. No one wants to be invaded, whether they deserve it or not. That's what we can't get our heads around with Iraq, not knowing how it feels.

kathyodat

Who do we turn to when those we entrust to safeguard our constitution are derelict in their duties.

Protecting the constitution is no less important a job as the military's protection of our country.

When will someone stand up with the courage to do his or her job?

The quality, or lack thereof, of our leaders is staggeringly offensive and outrageous.

Incidentally, there seems to be a dramatic increase in the number of persons wanting the truth about 9/11 . . . The root of their suspicions being the crimes the world reports the administration is known to have committed.
The truth must be revealed however tragic.

Here's a link to a very interesting article, titled "Clinton, Obama and the Narcissist's Tale". Check it out. It explains what's happening here. It poses a question in two parts that is thought provoking.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/27/AR2008042701660.html

kathyodat

Here is at least one chance to get out and show solidarity with folks who are putting themselves on the line Thursday, May 1 - th eILWU

You can get out in the streets ANYWHERE you are!

Any CDers within range of San Francisco should try to show solidarity with these folks on May 1.
This is the event our fellow CDer peaceman has been talking about.

Think of it - a slap at Pelosi in her own back yard.

Clash ahead over longshore union war protest
George Raine, Chronicle Staff Writer

Saturday, April 26, 2008

Members of the International Longshore & Warehouse Union are proceeding with plans for a work stoppage at 29 West Coast ports on May 1 to protest the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, despite the fact that union leadership has withdrawn its request to waterfront employers that they accommodate closure of the ports.

Planning for the protest began in February when the Longshore Caucus, the highest decision-making body for the 25,000 members of the longshore division within the ILWU, overwhelmingly approved a resolution in support of a day of protest.

…… for remainder see:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/26/BUC610C2HA.DTL&hw=longshore&sn=001&sc=1000

P.S. from Cindy

cindysheehan April 28th, 2008 7:54 pm
My statement of solidarity with ILWU…….

Dear Brothers and Sisters of the ILWU,

On behalf of myself and my congressional campaign, and in memory of my son Casey, I want to thank you for the principled and dignified action that you are taking on May 1st.

The exemplary resolution passed by your Longshore Caucus, and your decision to stop work on the West Coast docks on May 1, 2008 points the way for all of us who struggle to end the disastrous war and occupation of Iraq. This illegal and immoral war has been forced on us by the Republican administration, and has been funded enthusiastically by both the Democratic and Republican parties in Congress. The Democratic Party, under the leadership of Nancy Pelosi, continues a policy of full cooperation with and financial support for the Bush administration's war. While many Democrats will utter words that are critical of the highly unpopular war, their party simply will not use its political power to take any action to stop the carnage.

The ILWU has shown that it is an independent workers' union, morally superior to the Democratic Party in every respect. Once again, the Longshoremen of the West Coast are demonstrating that it is possible to oppose the war-mongering corporate politicians, and prevent them from dividing and conquering the movements of the workers and peoples. You Longshoremen have kept this powerful and noble tradition alive on their waterfront since the 1930s.

I want you to know that there is a congressional candidate in the Bay Area who supports you and your heroism. I thank you for refusing to load scrap iron for the Japanese invasion of China in the 30s. I thank you for your refusal to load bombs for the fascist dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in 1978. I thank you for your support of the Charleston Five, the Liverpool Dockers, the Longshoremen of Australia, of Chile, and all the other workers of the world with whom you stand in solidarity.

I thank you for your heroic stop-work actions in defense of Mumia Abu-Jamal, the Black labor journalist falsely accused of killing a police officer. I thank you for honoring the US Labor Against The War picket line against SSA on the Docks of Oakland in both 2003 and 2007.

I am offended by the arrogance, the chauvinism, and the sneering spitefulness that has been shown towards you by the Pacific Maritime Association and its member companies. If these employers had any sense of honor, they would be proud to cooperate with you on May 1st, and would eagerly join in your struggle to oppose this horrific war. My sympathy goes out to any workers who must negotiate the terms of their work against such cold and heartless war profiteers as the ones you bravely face in every contract negotiation. Their willful intransigence in the face of your principles should be enough to convince every honest elected official that your employers are bitter opponent of the people, and threats to the public good.

I will stand with you on May 1st in San Francisco and Oakland, and I encourage people everywhere to take up your call to resist the war. I will be with you on the picket line. I pledge to do whatever I can to aid and assist you in your noble effort, both on May 1st and in the days and weeks that follow.

An injury to one is an injury to all, and an injury to Longshoremen is an injury to me.

In Solidarity,
Cindy Sheehan
(cindy@cindyforcongress.org)

Do not, I repeat, do not shoot the president first.

Why are most people surprised that Pelosi took "impeachment off the table?" As most of the Congressional leadership are members of the privileged class.

Those who believe that this government is a representative government must believe in Tinker Bell, too.

You people must also believe that any of the presidental candidates are "from the people." The three candidates of the main parties are from the privileged class also.

P. T. Barnem was correct when he said "there is a sucker born every minute and two to take him."

Sorry Rebel Farmer - "...young enough to be very sad and rapidly running out of hope...mission accomplished" - not convinced, not accepted.

Your spelling of Gandhi is correct as are your perceptions of humanity: "Economic collapse and hungry bellies are the only things that will get the sustained attention of the masses." If you/We focus on the fact that economic collapse and hungry bellies are events that elicit a human response, then We will be on the Gandhian King path - culturing a human response, without economic collapse or hungry bellies (there are many forms) was perhaps Martin and Mohandas' greatest skill - and it is a human skill, available to you and me.

I guarantee that if you, based on previous postings at CD, or Congressional candidate Sheehan, based on taking her passions beyond grief (don't We all have a need to go there?) were to work with me: both of you could find and culture the Kingliness of Gandhian mindfulness - but it must be a calling, and, like Martin and Mohandas you must face the fear of the assassins bullet - if you are not ready, I am; of course Mohandas had an Ashram and sponsors to culture his mindfulness...of course it is a universe of abundance, yes? Are you ready to contribute or be contributed to?

John Conyers is a Toothless Lion, why ask a Toothless Lion to roar? Would it not be better to supply this Lion with teeth and let his natural roar echo within the halls of Congress...and from the Alleghenies to the Redwood forests, from the red clay of Georgia to the headwaters of the mighty Mississippi...around the world?

Sheehan is close to the path: focusing on keeping the Constitution on the American family's table via impeachment, all that is needed are some small but significant differences - impeachment/the Constitution as the organizing principle (not anger, grief or sorrow), impeachment (for hearings, and nothing more at this point, let conviction come or not, hearings are the human response and culture) impeachment/the Constitution as the organizing principle for voter registration and motivation, door to door, face to face, hand to hand - the "Salt March to the Sea" - educating the People as to their City, State and Federal Representatives and how to engage them, for now with the Call for Impeachment Hearings: for this human contact will break the hold of the fear of terror, and, the more predominate fear of appearing soft on terror that grips the Nation's decision making process - for the circle that counts: Citizen to Representative to Citizen is broken, but it can be healed (perhaps constructed for the first time in human history[?!]).

I've applied the dignified humanistic principles called for here to assist the healing and human function for children with birth traumas, and without surgery (war) or casting (occupation) - the same principles of human dignity can be applied on the macro level - not only releasing the American Spirit from the bondage of fear, but returning the American Spirit to it's rightful place along the path of the greater glory of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

"Congress has NO authority over Vice President".___ No shit.___ When a king is running the country, Congress has NO athority over anything.

The time has come for the removal of all government positions. The U.S. Constitution is a mere ghost of what it used to be. The mass public will soon be ready to give up their low paying jobs, their soon to be lack of food, shelter, the basics, so that they may revolt against a corporate biased government no longer for the People, and solely for interests outside of the Common.

For those who do not know, the geological facts of peak oil production will affect no other nation on earth more than the United States. We are living the nightmare as we communicate. Ten dollar a gallon gasoline is right around the corner; this is not only greed from the oil companies, but the mere economic principles of supply and demand. Cheap light crude oil has peaked. Our industrial society built on cheap oil will forever be changed. How can a society sustain bringing the average piece of produce three thousand miles without it being cost prohibitive particularly after cheap oil has ended?

How can a world that could only support about a billion people in pre-industrial times support seven, eight, ten billion people in an post industrial era? What are most commonly used fertilizers and pesticides derived from? We have not even got to what global warming will become. These are what the next true LEADERS will have to contend with if we have not gone back to a barbaric state of gangs, warlords, and rogue militias competing for control of such basics as water.

The time has come to prepare for the worst, start a garden, be vehemently vocal about your outrage to what this out of control government is doing to us, to the world. No more. And I truly hope for a peaceful change, but, it does not look as this will be the way. Those willing to be warriors, protect those who are willing to die for peace, love. There are many paths, and if we all come together, the journey will not be so bad, but it will be a journey that not one of us could have expected.

Forget this stuff about our government torturing people! Here is a really important story on the US Newswire!

Miley Cyrus photo shoot stirs controversy
Tuesday, April 29, 2008
By Monica Haynes, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Evan Agostini/Associated Press

Miley Cyrus says she thought her Vanity Fair photos would be "artistic."

Ubiquitous pop culture princess Miley Cyrus, whose image is displayed everywhere from the TV screen to clothing and lip gloss, is learning the hard way that what is artistic to some is totally inappropriate to others.

The 15-year-old star of the Disney Channel's hugely successful teen comedy "Hannah Montana" is trying to keep her head above the wave of controversy surrounding a Vanity Fair photo in which she appears to be draped by a silk sheet without any top on underneath it.

The photo, one of a series taken by famed photographer Annie Leibovitz, comes on the heels of Internet photos in which the young star flashes her midriff and a green bra.

Cyrus, who's become a role model to millions of young girls because of her squeaky clean, good-girl image, has apologized profusely since the controversial photo became public this past weekend, expressing embarrassment over what she thought were to be "artistic" photos. But quotes in the accompanying Vanity Fair article indicate that Cyrus initially had no problem with the photo shoot and thought the photos were "artsy but not in a skanky way."

Vanity Fair says Cyrus' parents and/or minders were on the set of the shoot, saw the photos and never had a problem.

Hey, didn't Big Dick also shoot a guy in the face, then get the guy to apologize for getting in the way of Big Dick's shot?

Gee, it must really be true that if you have even a little bit of power, the laws don't apply to you....

If you and those around you value your lives, you will learn to garden, farm, etc. On top of creating food, learn survivals skills, learn how to defend yourself, study revolutions, insurgencies. Know thy enemy; read the Art of War. As the Boy Scouts say, be prepared.

But of course, the all true knowing and well being is all within. If you can stay in the now, everything will always be all right, but we all have our place within this universe.

"The time has come to prepare for the worst, start a garden, be vehemently vocal about your outrage to what this out of control government is doing to us, to the world."

The trouble is, when I'm angry, tending to a garden is the last thing I feel like doing.

Could it be he is preparing to nominate himself again - for president?

sometimes i think these forums just exist so people can vent in the virtual world
and feel relieved by doing so

thus avoiding doing much in the 'real' world

LOOK -- they don't really care that much what you say

As long as you pay your TAXES on time !

Oh, for the good old days of the Druids in Pre-Roman Britain...

When the High King screwed up royally (!), and there was long incidence of war, famine or disease, the Druids would elect a new High King, then take the old one out to the local circle of standing stones, and gut him.

The Druids would then foretell how the reign of the new High King would go, looking at how the intestines of the old High king fell out, and his dying convulsions. This was a small pointed reminder of who was really in power.

Too bad the US doesn't have anything nearly as enlightened...

Cheney is clearly saying to the gutless Democrats like Conyers, Pelosi, etc.:

"Impeach me, you wimps?"

"I don't even have to talk to you **ckers!!"

"None of you even have the balls to confront me, you slime."

As much as I hate Cheney, it would be entirely accurate of him to give these clowns such a brush-off."

Dick Cheney's lawyer, Kathryn Wheelbarger, is right, not even a truckload of Viagra will help this impotent Congress nor any future POTUS. It's time to secede!

If the news of torture being authorized right up to the desk of Bush, why should this come as a surprise?

If the continued blatant criminality of this administration is not enough to bring about MASSIVE multiple million person protests and a national strike, then the US truly deserves what is about to befall it...

So what? What in the world are the Democrats going to do about it. Nothing. The same nothing they have done for the past seven years. Cheney and Bush couldn't exist without a lot of enablers on both sides of the isle.

" Hammo April 29th, 2008 12:23 pm

...

Some of these elements are explored in the article:

"Going in Circles: Vietnam, Iraq, Calls for Impeachment"

Truthout.org
16 January 2007

..."

I just finished reading that article and appreciate the link, finding the article to be very good; even if it's not long, it provides what I believe to be a view that is important to carefully consider and keep in mind, also carefully.

However, while I agree with the author, Steve Hammons, and quite wholly so, but now meaning with respect to wherein he says,

"Premature action now could result in pardons",

which horribly happened with the Nixon administration followed by Ford;

well, I will treat or view that issue or concern, or fear, and the need to stop the damn military aggressions and related destruction of countries, murdering millions, etcetera, [separately].

It, again, is because I will not allow fears like the above founded concern take precedence over the value of LIFE. I'll treat the two aspects as separate issues addressable in separate terms.

Besides, Congress can certainly demand or force cessation of all of these military aggressions, which includes in or against Haiti, among other countries, in addition to Iraq and Afghanistan, without needing to speak of impeachment. Congress should be able to tell the executive branch that the war or military aggression has been criminal all along, express its regrets for not having acted in a timely manner to stop these supreme crimes, and force their cessation. Or Congress could, instead, tell the executive branch that these military actions, which are entirely of aggression, must be stopped due to the economic and human costs. And that's while not using the term 'aggression' to describe these military actions of the USA, for the term inherently means criminal.

I'm using 'aggression', but Congress would not need to do so; it could stop these crimes without referring to them as 'aggression'. Just the economic, human, and environmental costs alone are more than enough for Congress to get with ending these crimes. And if Congress proceded in this manner, then indictments could be filed later on; the most crucial matter or all being to end these crimes.

Procede? Yes; and as opposed to rec[e]ded, acceded, ..., not rec[ee]ded, ..., to maintain logical spelling of words. Proceeds are a noun, while procede, recede, ... are verbs, and so on, f.e.

Perhaps there's some legal technicality that'd be a block for Congress to do as I'm saying, but such technicalities should NEVER be permitted to have priority over LIFE; they, instead, should be properly corrected. Technicalities that are flawed can be corrected. After all, it's humans who defined and established the these to begin with. It's definitely not out of human reach to be able to correct the technical flaws or lacunes or lacunas (lacunae) of humans.

It wouldn't be easy, for Congress provably is criminally complicit all along; but that also needs to be corrected.

Pardons of Bush, Cheney, and so on, even if this happened, which I believe will likely or surely be the case, given Congress has provided no real ethical credibility whatsoever, except for some members having done so; well, they might be pardoned in the USA, but will remain internationally indictable and could be arrested when traveling abroad. That also likely or surely would not be permitted by the U.S. govt, superpower, but other govts could file indictments nonetheless.

I've read that the Spanish judge who got Pinochet to finally have to face trial is someone who may also act in similar terms with Bush, Cheney, ...; and I suppose if any judges will do this, then he's likely to be among them. However, and again, the U.S. govt surely will not cooperate, so we're left with theoretical abilities to indict and convict these criminals.

Frustrating!

Wherein Hammons says, "We have the chance for a much brighter future, for ourselves and future generations, if we break these damaging patterns and create new circles of positive human development", and uses 'we' in other parts of the article, we MUST NOT neglect Iraqis, Afghans, Haitians, and so on; the 'we' must include the victims abroad, not only Americans. Hence, there's no excuse for delaying full halt of and reversal from these supreme crimes. Otherwise, may the USA BURN, for then, and like it or not, everyone, everyone in the USA anyway, will be profiting from these extreme crimes.

These crimes MUST be stopped, one way or another. Congress can certainly word this in a manner without making the most criminal of the warmongers, ..., feel like they're being pursued for their crimes. For crying out loud, stop these crimes and never pursue Bush, Cheney, ... for their crimes; Iraqis, Afghans, Haitians, and so on, [are] [the] topmost priority right now, and if we need, for their sake, to accept to never pursue the war criminals for their crimes, then it's a sacrifice we can certainly live with much more than with the continuation of these major military aggressions.

I think we can all agree that the lives of these victims are worth NO less than those of people anywhere else. Else, we do wish to profit from the crimes against all of these peoples or populations.

We'll wind up profiting from these crimes whether we like or not, it's not something we'll really be able to completely avoid; but we can and should be principled enough to not wish for these profits, and seek ways to minimize this as much as we can by living [modestly] and refusing to allow tax dollars to be used for military budgets. Iow, as long as we are of the principle to NOT want any such profits, or "benefit", then we won't be guilty; just that "benefiting" will be unfortunately unavoidable, entirely anyway. We can certainly minimize.

Anyway, and again, I prefer to treat the two issues as separate or distinct; related, but still distinct enough for us to be able to treat them this way. Top priority is stopping these crimes and I don't care what wording Congress uses to do or force this, as long as it's done.

I'll accept that Bush, Cheney, ... will be given a falsely clean slate for the remainder of their lives, as long as these damn crimes are stopped; if this sacrifice is needed in order to get them stopped.

We need to set priorities [correctly]. Humans surely have enough ability to be able to figure out appropriate wording.

Am I at all mistaken? I think not, but if people illustrate that I am, then I'll carefully consider what's stated. Moral or ethical is an aspect I wonder not about being at all mistaken about; but am no expert on either law or govt, so maybe there's a technical way in which my view is okay in theory, but not applicable with [present] laws.

I also checked Steve Hammons' blog and read the first article posted there, at the top of the homepage, today; and, now having read these two articles by him (who I suppose is yourself), he strikes me as of sound mind and considerable knowledge, certainly enough for me to learn things I didn't know about.

As for wherein he refers to the present 'chickenhawk' warmongers of the GWoT, I think a very good complementary article for Hammons' at Truthout is the following.

"New Israeli spy probe has a 30-year history, insiders say", by Jim Lobe, Sep 14 2004

I'll let people do a simple Web search for URLs, for I read the copy at FinalCall and don't know if CD would accept the url.

Anyway, I appreciate Hammons' article at TO and believe he's definitely right about the Vietnam War and the one today on Iraq being very similar; except we now have these Zionist chickenhawks, who are also motivated for the reasons Hammons states. So there's a slight difference in that Israel's [very] involved in terms of motive of "benefactor" today, but the rest ... like Hammons says.

This is on Pelosi. She's the one that handcuffed Conyers on impeachment. And the brains behind Pelosi is Barney Frank.

What lucky citizens we are. I never thought I would see the day when a sitting Vice-President would claim that the President retains "monarchical prerogatives" in any situation. I he may know nothing about the Federalist papers or the American Revolution, but does he have to defile them so. Can you imagine if John Adams were to hear Cheney claim "monarchical prerogatives" for any President?

"alaskamaid April 29th, 2008 5:04 pm

sometimes i think these forums just exist so people can vent in the virtual world
and feel relieved by doing so

thus avoiding doing much in the 'real' world

LOOK — they don't really care that much what you say

As long as you pay your TAXES on time !"

VALID POINT, and I had that impression as of some years ago already, but am also not in a position to be able to really do anything to stop these extreme crimes and their perpetrators, etc. I don't pay taxes anywhere, except sales taxes, being too poor to need to pay income taxes, so that part's covered. What else could I do? I'm too poor to even travel 80 miles away to Montreal, the nearest large city, so I'd definitely be too poor to be able to travel to large or sufficiently large protest demonstrations. ETC.

So what I instead do is to try to find good articles and work on continuing to inform myself, as well as to post to present questions or concerns, or to debate issue topics, ..., while also often posting links to what I believe a good or important articles to read.

I can't even afford new tires for the car, even used new, or new used tires; but I have free access to the Internet and can therefore search, research, etc.

A lot of posts are totally worthless and wasteful of readers' time, which is [annoying]; but there are also the people who make very good posts, from which I often enough gain more than from the articles here.

If I could afford to return to school to prepare myself for a different line of work I did for 10 years in the 1990s but can't market myself with today, not in the area where I live anyway, well, then I'd be in school and would therefore have much less time for this sort of Internet activity. I can't afford the tires, so I definitely can't afford to pay for schooling.

But you're still very right.

Never, never forget that BIG WORD.

_________________"SO".________________

The disgusting and disheartening truth is if Cheney were to read these posts (doubt it), he would just laugh.

He is the most arrogant civil servant (does he know that) this country has had to tolerate in its history. The man is detested but continues on in his monarchical ways and no one steps up to smack him down.

How many millions of Americans are there now? You mean we are subject to the rants and raves of this warmongering lunatic until January (or beyond, if he has his way)?

Conyers can forget the posturing. Pelosi should go home and bake cookies. In fact, the Democrats as a whole are a group of pandering, self-serving desk fillers.

This country is in real trouble.

If Clinton or Obama is expected to have a hard time defeating McCain this fall, where is the support for impeachment going to come from? A substantial minority not only does not want to impeach Bush and Cheney, they'd vote for them again! I think Pelosi realizes this, and doesn't want to divide the country any more than it is. (She doesn't need to have any future plans. Cindy Sheehan will be taking care of that.)

I'd say vote for the democrat this fall, Obama or Clinton, and then your choice of moderate dems or repubs, or anyone like Cindy Sheehan who actually has a good chance winning a seat. Then we can hopefully move forward from the arrogance and radicalism of this administration.

Would a little water-boarding make them talk?

cata April 29th, 2008 1:54 pm.... My friend, you are a bit naive....the judiciary is complicit..from the Attorneys General through SCOTUS....just that simple. Look at the SCOTUS decision over Indiana just yesterday...

Cheney's "monarchical prerogatives" used to be my second favorite, with Putin's "democracy is the dictatorship of order" being the first. My new second has to be Scalia's belief torture is not "cruel and unusual" as long as the torturer's intent is information extraction and not punishment.

A judge can not impose a sentence of prison time with a torture chaser, but the police torturing for information is not banned by the 8th amendment. I thought the Bar Association was supposed to revoke your license whenever you say things like this.

Impeach, indict, imprison.

Get off your duffs and stop whining !!!!

Please make a point to get out in the streets on May 1.

Look for a celebration, march, speech, demonstration near you.

It' would actually be healthy for us to get out in the 'real' world and vent instead of hiding and suppressing our feelings.

You may even feel good about it.

Rember MLK and Gandhi!!

Jcrumb,
You go boy ! ! ! What we have hear is a failure to communicate. What the American public is failing to observe; is the spawning of the Fledgling Facisist's(sp)Govenment that will soon control the "Former United States of America".

So?

The hubris and arrogance of these malcontents is limitless. However, the Democrats must accept some responsibility for the response from the White House. If they won't use the constitution and congressional power to hold these morons to account, then they must accept the consequences.

The Democrats lack conviction and courage and the Republicans and their corrupt supporters will take full advantage, no doubt ripping apart the very soul and social fabric of a great nation.

Don't give the arrogant SOB a FREE PASS.........

IMPEACH CHENEY >>>>>>>>> IMMEDIATELY !!!!!!!!!!!!

also IMPEACH his puppet George W. Bush at the same time !!!!!!!!!

.

Thank you, USAn, for the US Newswire story "Miley Cyrus photo shoot stirs controversy." You've proven the inescapable truth of MSM news stories in America today. So, on a scale of 1 to 10:

News exposure of nubile young actress's body = 10

News exposure of a hopelessly corrupt federal government = 0

Any questions?

Yet another sad day for America.