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Get Out, Hillary
Imagine, if you can, that the situation was reversed.
Imagine that Hillary Clinton had a prohibitive lead in the race for the Democratic Party presidential nomination. Imagine that just about everything was trending her way -- money, votes, public support, momentum and superdelegates. Imagine that for her opponent, Barack Obama, to remain in the race would only have the effect of dragging down the chances that Clinton and the Democratic Party could win the presidency in what should be a slam-dunk election against reviled Republicans.
Now ask yourself two questions: Would Obama stay in the race in this situation? And, would he be allowed by other Democrats to stay in, or even by the progressive grassroots?
The answer to the first question is, simply, "No". Obama is a team player, and has provided little evidence whatsoever of being so absorbed with himself that he has turned this election into his own personal quest for glory. This basic humility is what we expect of most fellow humans (though it is rather more, er, rare among politicians), but it is especially notable in the case of Obama. I mean, the guy is a political rock star. It's like the Beatles, 1964. People are practically fainting and throwing panties on stage whenever he appears. Seriously, it can't be entirely easy for him to keep a sense of proportion, and yet I've never seen the slightest hint to the contrary in more than a year of him campaigning across the country.
So, if the situation were reversed, would Obama be so enamored of himself that he would insist on remaining in a race he could only lose -- even if it meant wrecking his party and his country and the world for another four years by electing a Republican -- just because he felt that only he was worthy of the nomination? I think not. I'm quite sure he would do what John Edwards and all the other candidates did when the handwriting was clearly inscribed on the wall. He would get out.
The answer to the second question is even more interesting. Would Democrats and progressives (too often not necessarily the same thing) 'allow' him to remain in the race under those conditions? The answer is, "Of course not." True, no one can be removed from contention against their will, but they can be effectively or literally driven from the race by being hounded and later just ignored, presuming they're too daft and graceless to remove themselves. Or, the superdelegates could just swiftly finish the job. Clearly, this is what would happen to Obama were he doing a Hillary right now. Clearly, it would be understood that to remain in the race -- tearing down the all-but-inevitable nominee and leaving her mortally wounded for John McCain's assassins to move in and finish the job -- that this would be an outrage. And it would be understood that Obama would be committing career suicide by continuing to do this. This is a nice little mechanism by which parties are traditionally able to prevent their most self-absorbed members from putting their own interests ahead of the party's.
So, why do we treat Hillary differently? Is it because we feel sorry for her and her travails? We sure as heck shouldn't. Lots of people would kill for her position in life, and rightly so. So Bill has a zipper problem. Does anyone sense that she really particularly cares? And, anyhow, who among us has a perfect life? This woman has good health, scads of money, tons of power, and more fame than all but a few people on the planet, along with what appears to be a genuinely loving (if more than occasionally pathological -- with Chelsea now unfortunately joining the act) family. As a senator, she's already a member of the self-styled 'most exclusive club in the world.' She spent eight years in the White House as a powerful First Lady. She might be president someday. That ain't such a bad run for one lifetime.
Do we treat her differently because she is a woman? Again, we shouldn't. While the United States desperately needs diversity amongst its political ranks, and needs it purely for its own sake, we should never allow a candidate's sex to serve as a shorthand for their politics. Margaret Thatcher is a woman, and so was Indira Gandhi and Cleopatra. Anyone who thinks that Hillary Clinton's first devotion is to feminism and women's issues over her own ambitions better stock up on coat-hangers, I'm afraid. This is a person who knowingly voted for a war based on complete and obvious fabrications in order to advance her own political career. That war has now likely claimed over a million lives. Does anyone seriously believe that someone who could do that wouldn't also be capable of selling out abortion rights for the same purpose? Indeed, she already has. Let's not kid ourselves about where her interests lie, and where they always lie. And, by the way, if equitable representation is the logic, let's also not forget that there's a certain African American still in this race, as well, and that his is another community that has been more than a little, shall we say, under-represented in the American political firmament these last four centuries or so.
Do we treat her differently because we've (well, actually, not me!) all bought into the whole self-reverential Clinton mythology? Way too many of us believe that Ol' SpongeBill NoPants was a great president, just because he knew so well how to convey the impression that he was soaking up our concerns with his endless faux empathy. Like his hero JFK, who at least has the excuse that he only had three years to work with, the Clinton presidency was in truth almost entirely image and little substance. In fact most of the real substance was a complete sellout of the American people and the historic constituencies of the Democratic Party. But -- again, like Kennedy -- Clinton gets a lot of adoration from among a hopelessly politically credulous electorate who continually fall for his smarmy routine. Or at least used to -- one of the great developments of the 2008 campaign is that Billbo has outed himself for the vulture he actually is, and has severely damaged his own reputation, which even still remains massively inflated, though a lot less so than before.
Anyhow, the Clintons can't quite seem to sell Hillary as a presidential nominee to Democrats, but they still manage to get a lot of RSVPs to their maximally self-indulgent pity party. They just simply believe -- like a certain other family whose American dynasty you may be familiar with (and, no, I'm not talking about John Quincy Adams here) -- that the presidency belongs to them. Right from the beginning of this process they've laid out all the groundwork to make it happen, and darned if they don't feel entitled to claim their prize. Does anyone seriously believe that the Clintons just coincidentally moved to New York? Does anyone think that she wanted to be senator just to pass good legislation? Does anyone think that she has a particular jones in this lifetime for getting potholes fixed for upstate New York hicks who might as well come from Arkansas? Does anyone think that Hillary Rodham -- oops, that went out in 1992, make that Hillary Rodham Clinton -- chose to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee because that's an issue she's always been passionate about? Does anyone believe that she voted for war in Iraq because she believed the crap BushCo was peddling? Does anyone think she puts the interests of her party, or even her country, ahead of her own?
This is a predator we're talking about, ladies and gentlemen, a maximally opportunistic political scavenger who is quite satisfied to peck out your eyeballs and clean the flesh from your very dead bones (just ask 4,000 Americans or one million Iraqis) if there are a couple of superdelegates to be picked up in exchange. Really, the great wonder is how anybody ever went for it. But, then again, if George W. Bush was once at 90 percent approval ratings, I guess anything is possible in a very scary America. Sure, it was right after 9/11, I know. But let's remember that 9/11 was (at best) just about the worst national security disaster in American history, and it happened on Bush's watch. Let's remember that it came after the president had been warned about the danger, but spent the next month on vacation in Crawford, jogging, clearing brush and otherwise jerking off. Let's remember that he kept on sitting in that classroom with the kiddies while the country was under attack that morning. And let's remember that he flew -- not heroically into the mouth of danger when we needed his leadership -- but way west to Nebraska, when it got a little too scary for this tough guy president. If that's what gets you 90 percent in America, no wonder so many have bought into the Hillary sob story.
All those are possibilities, but I suspect that the real reason we treat Hillary differently is the same reason just about everybody in the GOP gets treated differently, from Reagan to Bush to Cheney to DeLay. Because to do otherwise means that a price will be exacted from you, and we're nothing if not a nation of political cowards. The Clintons know how to play hardball.
Did ya see the thing in the New York Times about the superdelegate who got the call from Chelsea, begging her not to go over to Obama? "Why? Why?," Chelsea kept repeating over and over. Class act, eh? Chip off the old block. That very sense of entitlement which now seems to have added a new generation to the roll-call is precisely what's wrong with this family. The Clintons take the presidency extremely personally because that all it is for them -- a personal joyride. They don't have some agenda -- progressive or otherwise -- for making this a better country. They just want to be in the White House. You get in the way? You're road kill, babe.
That's why we're seeing them do anything whatsoever to win. Anyone who doesn't appreciate this -- and there are a lot of them, particularly in Pennsylvania -- has never understood the Clintons. Remember Ricky Ray Rector and the death penalty? Remember NAFTA and WTO? Remember the Defense of Marriage Act and don't-ask-don't-tell? Remember welfare reform and sitting on Kyoto? How about blocking the UN and other countries from saving lives in Rwanda, and then apologizing there later on for 'not doing enough'? Anyone who thinks the Clintons care about anyone besides themselves is a fool. Anyone who thinks they have principles is deluded. Anyone who thinks they give a damn about the Democratic Party is hopelessly lost. Hell, by 1996 -- after they had led the party over the cliff in 1994 -- it was already completely overt, and Clinton followed the advice of the switch-hitting, prostitute-impressing and appropriately named political guru Dick Morris to pursue a strategy of triangulation. In other words, running against your own party in Congress. What more evidence does anyone need?
Okay, well how about the campaign of the last year and a half? First of all, her's has been horrifically mismanaged. Ready on Day One? Really? Because, um, it's like Day Five Hundred of the campaign and just about all they've done so far is to boot what was once a sure thing, chiefly by treating it as a sure thing. She was the presumptive, odds-on winner, and now she's in debt, her negatives are skyrocketing, she's been out-hustled everywhere by the upstart Obama campaign, she's lost twice the number of states he has, and she is mathematically out of contention, unless she can somehow weasel the nomination by buying off superdelegates. Impressive, eh? Ain't that just who you want running the ship of state?
As if that weren't damning enough, the Clintons have made clear yet again just how ample is their scuzziness quotient. No Democrat can touch it, other than Joe Lieberman, and even he really isn't in their league. If necessary, they can play the gender card, so she got weepy in New Hampshire. They're quite capable of playing the race card, and they did so in South Carolina. They're happy to play the national security fear card, and they have, with the 3:00 AM ad, the Osama bin Laden ad, and now the obliteration of Iran bit. (If it walks like a Republican, talks like a Republican, and sounds like a Republican...) They're capable of telling outright whopping lies, and so they do, like her unbelievably outrageous Bosnia gunfire story, and then the lies they've both told to cover up the original lie. They're capable of sleeping with any enemy, and so they have, colluding with no less than Rush Limbaugh, Rupert Murdoch and Richard Mellon Scaife, of all people -- the very topmost Conspirators of the Vast Right-Wing. Bill actually went on the Limbaugh radio show as both of them encouraged Texans to vote for her! Gee, what could possibly have been Limbaugh's motivation for that? (Hint: President Hillary ain't exactly what he had in mind.) What in the world does that alone say about how much the Clintons care about the Democratic Party?
Really, my favorite, however, is the theater of the absurd arguments they keep advancing for why she should actually win the nomination even though she's behind in delegates, she's behind in the popular vote, she's lost twice as many states, she's broke and he's flush, superdelegates have been breaking one after the other toward him and none toward her, and nearly all the enthusiasm and new Democratic voters are with him.
None of that matters, of course. According to the Clinton camp, we should be choosing a nominee based on a somewhat, ahem, more unusual metric (which even in itself changes from week to week, and which even they refuse to ultimately commit to as the definitive criterion). All the of the following have actually been advanced by the Clintons or their soldiers in the past month or two as what should really count in picking a winner: The nomination should go to the person winning the big states (guess who that just happens to be?), or the candidate winning the November swing states (can you guess who?), the winner of states that use primaries instead of caucuses (you know the drill), the winner of the national popular vote (which they actually aren't, but can hope to be), or -- this one kills me -- the states with the most Electoral College votes to be counted after November. Oh, and don't forget we must also include the states that Hillary previously agreed must be excluded, Michigan and Florida.
For any of us so deluded as to have believed that nominees should be selected simply by a majority of the party delegates, this has been quite an educational ride!
The simple but ugly fact is that the Clintons are utterly amoral. They differ from Bushist Republicans only in that they appear (though this is as yet unproven) to be merely passively willing to be destructive should that benefit their personal agenda, rather than actively seeking to be so. It's the difference between allowing Iraq to happen, on the one hand, and initiating the war, on the other.
Many Democrats have been hopelessly in love with the Clintons these last twenty years, for reasons that never made any more sense to me than did, well, the hatred Billary have engendered from Republicans. The Clintons couldn't be more harmful to the Democratic Party if they were roguish drunks, continually crashing the family car and getting fired from their job, but doing so in some sort of (barely) charming fashion.
Fortunately, many Democrats have wised up to their ways this last time round, and one of the joys of this election may be to bury this curse forever, permanently ostracize the Clinton cancer, and return the party to its traditional New Deal agenda of genuine compassion and governance in the public interest.
Meanwhile, though, isn't it time for Democrats to dump this destructive spouse, once and for all? Haven't the Clintons finally gone on a drunken selfish bender one too many times? If helping John McCain win the presidency doesn't qualify as the last straw, I don't know what would.
The Clintons are never going to give up their insatiable quest for attention and power voluntarily. It's way past time for the superdelegates of the Democratic Party to put an end to this Arkansas family drama.
What are they waiting for? The breathalyzer results?
David Michael Green is a professor of political science at Hofstra University in New York. He is delighted to receive readers' reactions to his articles (mailto:dmg@regressiveantidote.net), but regrets that time constraints do not always allow him to respond. More of his work can be found at his website, www.regressiveantidote.net.



121 Comments so far
Show All~RSJ~ that story about Obama and the Weathermen was on CNN and it was bogus as I said I thought and hoped it was on two other threads.
As to my saying he's not what he wishes to portray himself as, it makes no difference who writes his speeches and books, his voting record does not reflect what he says or writes. What we now see, is not the Obama who is a voting U.S. Senator. (See above post by BOB-K)___ This politics is fun huh?
It's not bogus at all that Obama just endorsed Betraus as Commander of Cintcom and he also gave a speech in Indiana Tuesday, saying we needed nuclear power for clean energy. Go man go. He'll likely be the Demo candidate and McCain will win the General election.
If the Fla and Mich primary votes are not counted, come the General Election, those voters will stay home. McCain will win Florida and Michigan and he'll be our next Bush.
LOL. BOB-Ks post just disappeared.
RSJ,
I'm interested comparing the two candidates for the Democratic nomination. Describing the frying pan without mentioning the fire is not constructive.
That's why I examined the candidates' voting records during their time in the Senate together. http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/14/8284/
Bob K. April 14th, 2008 1:28 pm)
My list of twelve votes includes the most important issues (subjects of long public battles) and other revealing votes (on which Hillary and Obama voted opposite ways). I chose votes where the progressive choice was obvious — e.g. tort "reform," which was unanimously opposed by more than 68 public-interest groups.
Your list included votes on issues that are grey areas, and on other votes you criticized Hillary without mentioning that Obama voted the same way. You also claimed your list was evidence that Hillary often voted against the Democrats. My examination revealed that any time 50% or more of her Democratic colleagues voted the opposite way, you claimed Hillary voted "against" Democrats. Your claim is not only misleading, it's ridiculous. What would you have a Senator do, run around and count votes on every issue to be sure she votes the same way as at least 51% of her colleagues?
Your list —
Vote (1) — You state your opinion without any facts to back it up. 52% of Democrats voted the opposite of Hillary, so your claim that she voted against her party is false. If there's a clear progressive issue here, convince us.
Vote (2) — You continue to claim that Hillary is a free-trader and IMPLY that Obama is not. (There is overwhelming evidence that Obama is a committed free-trader while Hillary genuinely wants reform, but I'll stay on the topic of votes.) The fact is that they both voted for this bill. If you don't like Hillary's vote, fine. But criticizing her vote and omitting the fact that Obama voted the same way is dishonest.
If you can show us any vote on free-trade where Obama's vote was different than Hillary's, please do so. MY list includes the revealing vote on Senator Dorgan's amendment to the 2005 Commerce Appropriations Bill which would have PREVENTED the most egregious free-trade deals. Hillary voted for that amendment, and Obama voted against it. I think that speaks volumes.
Vote (3) — As I said, and you now admit, it was Obama who voted to allow this right-winger to be Secretary of Interior, while Hillary took a principled stand against the nomination. This vote is an example of what Obama means when he says he will work with Republicans to "get things done," and Hillary is "too divisive." This is exactly why I prefer Hillary. I don't WANT to let the Republicans have their way with such important issues, I want to stop them.
Vote (4) — In the first place, any bill sponsored by Trent Lott doesn't even pass the smell test. Secondly, when you add John McCain's and Joe Lieberman's names to an "ethics" bill, it stinks even more. You say you "disagree with my evaluation," but it's not my evaluation. Public Citizen called the bill a "sham." The League of Women Voters called the "Office of Public Integrity" proposal a "whitewash," and the Campaign Legal Center called it "window dressing."
You say the Senate Ethics Committee has been ineffectual. But the fact is that several corrupt legislators and lobbyists went to prison just before Trent Lott and the Republicans introduced this bill to take power away from ethics committees and stifle future ethics investigations. In typical Republican fashion, they presented a hollow nothing with a grandiose name.
Hillary's vote on this was correct. Obama not only voted with the Republicans, he added his name as a co-sponsor! This is a perfect example of what Obama pledges to accomplish by working with Republicans: whitewash and window dressing. This is the real Obama.
Vote (5) — As I said, I'm no tax expert, but I do know that you addressed the lower capital gains rates (which do mostly benefit the wealthy) but didn't mention the lower alternative minimum tax rates, which mostly benefit the middle-class. This vote remains a grey area, but your take on it indicates a willingness to deceive.
Vote (6) — Another example of you stating your opinion without offering any facts to back it up. If you have evidence for your claims, cite it. I'll be interested. Otherwise, I'm not convinced.
Vote (7) — I did read the entire Senate transcript of this debate, and I searched the web for other information. I could find nothing about any health problems suffered by the clean-up workers. It should have been easy to find. Health issues were mentioned just once in the Senate debate — it certainly wasn't portrayed as a major issue. The debate was about whether government should (both) pay contractors billions, and subsidize their labor costs as well with taxpayer-provided benefits. This would be in line with what the nuclear industry wants: government-guaranteed profits.
I do agree that this issue has the potential to be revealing, and I am open to learning more and being convinced. As things stand, this is another grey-area vote.
Vote (8) — We know that Hillary is NOT "in the back pocket of many of those energy corporations" as you claim. She just announced her "Windfall Profits Tax on Oil Companies" plan, which would "impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies and use the money to temporarily suspend the 18.4 cent per gallon federal gas tax and the 24.4 cent per gallon diesel tax during the upcoming peak summer driving months." Her plan is "fully paid for by taking away oil company profits through a windfall profits tax. This will ensure that the Highway Trust Fund is not affected at all by the gas tax suspension, and can continue to support critical repairs and maintenance for our infrastructure and highways."
Obama OPPOSES this plan. As I've repeatedly said, Obama routinely puts profits ahead of public interest.
That said, it appears Hillary voted the wrong way in 2005 on the Durbin amendment to increase CAFÉ standards, and pending further examination I may indeed add this vote to my list.
Vote (9) — I think we agree that this vote was more about ethanol and politics than MTBE. Obama is from an ethanol state and Hillary is not. I don't think it's any mystery why so many Dems from farm states supported the bill. This vote reveals little more than that about the two candidates.
Vote (10) — Both Hillary and Obama voted for the Gitmo funding. As you said, your list didn't mention Obama at all. Instead, you would have us believe that Hillary was for it and Obama was against it. That's dishonest. If you don't like both candidates' votes on this, vote for Nader. But, don't try to deceive us about Obama.
I'm not going to debate your anti-Hillary rhetoric. I could dispute it line by line, and tell you about Obama's horrible voting record in the Illinois legislature, his Illinois corruption, his recent pro-Walmart/anti-jobs stand in Chicago, his lies on the campaign trail, etc. But that's off topic. It's all going to be front and center at some point anyway. Hopefully that point will come before a general election fight when the Republicans would destroy him with it.
It's simple. She is allowed to stay in the race because she's a woman. For some reason, the idea of "1st woman president" is so attractive to some people, that they care nothing about factors that really matter. If you ask most of her following why they support her, the answer is that they want to see a woman president.
So, to hell with the country as long as a woman is running it. WTF?
Green___You should feel better now that you have released all of that Hillary hate from your poisoned system. Next time write your thoughts down and then throw them away so we can read something worth while.
You must have been living on another planet when the Clinton administration had the country running well for most people. Perhaps with your professor salary you are one of the super rich that prefer to not pay their rightful share of taxes to keep our country going.
Under (Billary), as you haters love to say, our economy was good, the budget was balanced, our service agencies were being funded, we had no endless war, our constitution was not being trod on, the right wing fundamentalists were not making our policies, people were not losing their homes, gas was reasonably priced, and all we had to worry about was Monica.
Wow. What vitriol for Hillary and Bill, and a little JFK bashing for good measure. What is wrong with letting the people decide?
Things can change over the course of a campaign. Why is a two-month-past vote for Obama on Super Tuesday worth more than a current vote for Hillary in Pennsylvania? A current vote should be worth at least as much, since it's dealing with present realities.
Unless you think the people of Indiana, North Carolina, etc are somehow unworthy, I say let the race continue. Let the people speak.
Hillary has three strike against her that will prohibit her from winning the presidency
1. Voted to illegally invade and occupy Iraq
2. Has stated she will nuke Iran
3. Married to Blowjob Bill, the sexual harraser of employees
DMG over-writing a topic again, as usual.
But wisdom now is not about whether we "like" Obama better than the Clintons----OF COURSE WE DO.
Wisdom is about being sure the country is not lost to John McCain. The PA primary shouted loud and clear that Barack may be the best hope since RFK (he is, in my view), and may also be impossible to elect in America due to the racism of non-college white men and women. If Indiana sends the same message again, it's gonna be time for citizens to maybe demand a team-up. I'm beginning to wonder if either Barack or Hillary can be expected to win alone---and DMG can't seem to wait for what Indiana is going to say. That's not so wise, really.
thank you David Michael Green, your analysis is spot on
i like the lady macbeth metaphor.
concerning the last act, will hillary find her conscience?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Macbeth_(Shakespeare)
"By the time she is seen again, Lady Macbeth's long-suppressed conscience has begun to plague her; she sleepwalks, haunted by visions of spots on her hands which she cannot wash off (in the famous "Out damn'd spot" speech"); the blood her husband has spilled largely at her instigation — tormented into madness by the guilt. She also seems to blame herself for the acts Macbeth commits alone — such as having Macduff's wife and son killed along with anyone else who bore the name Macduff — for her indirect responsibility, having pushed her husband to his state of tyranny. Just before the climactic battle between Macbeth and Macduff, she apparently commits suicide, though the play does not explicitly reveal the cause of her death. She is one of Shakespeare's most talked about female lead roles, and considering the complexity of her character it is very rarely questioned why this is."
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Kernel April 25th, 2008 11:33 am,
i've noticed you write w/ a censor's temperament.
there are legitimate reasons to be angry at the clintons. presidents are not entitled to 3rd terms, and 2 families should not control one government for 24 -32- years.
it is fucking insulting and deserves as much vitriolic press as can be mustered.
...peace...
CommonDreams is no longer a progressive site. Article after article lying about Hillary and shilling for Obama. This is the same stuff the right-wingers are publishing.
I'm not going to waste more of my time refuting this garbage line by line.
If anyone is interested in the horse race between Dems and Repubs, check the ELECTORAL VOTES. You know, the ones that COUNT when we elect presidents.
(1) Hillary is currently defeating McCain by 50 votes. Obama is defeating McCain by just 5 votes.
(2) According to conventional wisdom, in order for a Democrat to win the White House he or she must win AT LEAST TWO OF THE THREE BIG SWING STATES: Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio. Currently, Hillary is winning all three. Obama is winning only one.
(3) How THIN is Obama's support, really? Look at Massachusetts, the most reliably Democratic state of all the states. Currently, Obama is winning Massachusetts by just two points! (Hillary carries it by 15.)
Do you think it's just coincidence that corporate media wants Hillary out of the race? They know she's the strongest candidate and would likely defeat McCain.
Look at reality. If Obama can't win two of the three big swing states, he can't win. If he is in danger of losing even Massachusetts, the most reliably Democratic state (where both Ted Kennedy and John Kerry have endorsed him), how many other traditionally Democratic states might he lose?
That's right, progressives. Buy what the media is selling you: Obama is a "rock star." Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, as the Wizard once said to Dorothy. Don't count the electoral votes, no, no, no! Dump Hillary and give us your weakest candidate . . . and then watch us destroy him and your chances for a bigger majority in Congress.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/Apr24.html
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/Apr24.html
GET OUT David Michael Green. I for onw agree that this extended primary had been a good thing. Instead of packing the citcus up and giving the nomination to Sen Obama, we have been able to see where the attacks from the right will come from in advance of the election, and that is a VERY good thing. He is NOT this perfect rockstar that some of the Obamaraman's claim that he is and the paramopunt objective afterall is to ABSOLUTELY ensure that the rethuglinaziis are removed from power.
Let the primaries roll on~ NO PROBLEM.
You forgot the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and Waco, where they turned 80+ men, women and children to molten piles of burnt flesh.
Otherwise...PERFECT!
Much of this rant could have been delivered as passionately by a Clinton-supporter. "...the Clintons can't quite seem to sell Hillary as a presidential nominee to Democrats," true, but no more or less convincingly than Obama, who hasn't closed the deal, either. Pity party? Listen to yourself. Lieberman? With his appeals to bipartisanship, nobody in the Democratic primaries sounded more like Jiltin' Joe than Barackk Obama. And so on.
To an issues-oriented voter, it makes little difference whether Obama or Clinton is the final choice. While each is preferable to McCain, neither will tackle the military-industrial complex, push for universal single-payer health care, or advance the cause of economic justice without a serious, organized push from the left.
Therefore, unless you have become a follower of either camp, the rush to shut down the campaign for the nomination before all the votes are cast and counted, seems both undemocratic and counter-productive.
This campaign is keeping the opposition off balance. The Right is unsure whom to target, while the Democrats are free to pile on John McCain. Until there is a single Democratic contender, it is difficult for the corporate media to return single-mindedly to the horse race metaphor -- too many Democrats have the regrettable tendency to muddy the waters by bringing up issues and talking about ideas.
Plus, the longer it goes on, the more the candidates will feel pressure from policy-oriented primary and caucus voters and superdelegates to offer concrete proposals about ending the war and pursuing economic reforms.
If the superdelegates settle it before the primaries are over, or if Hillary gives in to pressure to stand down, the effect will be to render the remaining tallies moot. You will recall that the party stripped Michigan and Florida of their convention delegates after those states tried to jump to the head of the line of voters in violation of party rules. Now Dean et al want to do the same thing to the Democrats who haven't voted yet. Break the rules: lose your franchise. Follow the rules: lose your franchise.
The democratic process, when it is allowed to play out, tends to produce consensus. Maybe, if this nominating season is allowed to go to its conclusion, the result yet will be a consensus satisfactory to most nominal Democrats. To not allow game to run out its last two minutes, whether the loser in the end is Clinton or Obama, is to guarantee a tainted victory and a lingering bitterness.
I'm really amazed at how rude some of the folks here are.
"DMG over-writing a topic again, as usual." ??
"Write your thoughts down and throw them away"?????
Just because you disagree with the author?
Here is the basic problem at hand:
Hillary has won the delegate rich states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, California and Texas that the Dems so badly need to win the White House, and she did so quite handily. Obama, on the other hand, has energized the youth and African American voters that the Dems also badly need to win.
Hillary has the firm support of blue collar, white and female voters, which the Dems badly need to win the White House. Both sides vow that if their opponent wins the nomination, that they'll either stay home and not vote or vote for McCain instead.
Sadly, most of the "Reagan Democrats" who have flocked to Hillary's banner, cannot stand the very idea of voting for an African American for President. There is still a great deal of entrenched racism in this country that time has not managed to dull, and sadly, this is and has been a major factor in this primary season.
Those I know who are Hillary supporters look nostalgically back at the roaring '90's, when times were good, gas prices were cheap, money flowed like water, jobs were plentiful and we had a budget surplus, and they're convinced that the Clintons can restore those times to us again, which they are delusional about, because these are different times in which we live. The days of cheap food and cheap gas are over forever. We're all going to be paying exhorbitant food and fuel prices from now on and we're going to have to retool our economy to compensate for that fact.
So, if Hillary drops out, the Reagan Democrats will flock to McCain's banner and we'll be stuck with another 4-8 years of Bush policy. But, as you say, Obama's a political rock star who has inspired millions of us to flock to his banner. The best we can hope for is either a Obama-Clinton ticket or a Clinton-Obama ticket, in order to keep all of their constituencies happy and prevent a migration to McCain's banner. It's just all a matter of who's willing to make the sacrifice of the top spot and take the second banana position. And I can tell you that Clinton won't stand for it, period, too big is her ego.
So rather than drop out, I'd say this to her, "Hillary, do your party good and agree to run on a ticket with Obama, with him at the top and you as second banana, and keep all of your respective constituencies energized and happy so that a win in November will be a slam-dunk." Uh, oh, maybe I shouldn't use that term, given who used it to describe the case for the Iraq war...... ;-)
I admit I liked Bill Clinton. I would also like to see a woman president. But, I no longer see much in Bill to like and Hillary has way too much baggage to be a good candidate.
I am not an Obama fan, but it is time to end the Clinton and Bush dynasties, their tenacles wind around every facet of government, a chokehold on change and progress. Just having a new face will be the Change that Obama is promising and perhaps a new look will be refreshing, a clean wind blowing away some of the corruption and dishonesty that has destroyed any semblence of democrary.
I'm supporting neither yet.But I started out thinking Obama but now I'm thinking more Hillary.
The real reason she is still in is because he hasn't beaten her. The day when enough Superdelegates commit to Obama to guarantee nomination, that will be the day to withdraw.
SallyUUKent - Clinton did not win the delegate total in Texas. Texas has a wierd caucas-primary system. The second step in Tx. gave additional delegates to Obama, topping Clinton, but no one will say it, mostly msm won't say it.
Our electoral process is awful and needs to be changed. This year, as usual, we are stuck with it. With Bush as guide it appears that rules (laws, whatever) don't matter any more.
Given the current REALITY, Clinton cannot win with our votes. It is up to supers, who should declare now, but most are hedging their bets, and this hurts all of us. Last states and P.R. and Guam can vote, but it will be supers who decide.
What would Obama would do if the situation was reversed? The situation is not reversed. Insiders are considering Clinton blowback I would guess. Machine politics in this country must be really foul the longer in power. I see a woman morphed into a tactic, and an imperfect Afican American being slimed by his party. this too hurts all of us.
I won't vote for them, but it would have to be Clinton-Obama. Obama is too inexperienced and has a terrible record as a do-nothing U.S. senator.
I just can't believe that this vile garbage keeps on getting published! They are BOTH seriously flawed! Why not instead talk about a black and a woman who we need in the white house? Cynthia McKinney! F*ck viability! She has great policy positions (as does Ralph Nader). Why not articles on why we should be supporting them, rather than staying stuck in this awful two-party corporately controlled system? REAL change, REAL hope, not the illusory kind that Obama is selling to people.
I also want to say that the Obama - Clinton divide is mostly a class issue. Pundits, who are usually on the upper end of class, refuse to see it. This is why I like her more than him. She would be better for us in the long run than he would be.
President John McCain - Obamaniacs will be to blame! (btw, read "Gaming The Vote" by William Poundstone for a solution to the spoiler question)
Shame on you. You are way old enough to know better than to get caught up in the Obamarama, you should be getting the kids to realize he is as much a political hack as Clinton is. But here you (and those Obama believers at Common Dreams) are, making more excuses and delusions abt how Obama is a better choice than Clinton. Shame on you.
Paul Krugman's NYT article today put the blame on Obama's campaign. Something to the effect that he was not being specific enough on what he wants to accomplish and Hillary is. He ended it saying that McCain might beat Obama.
sansf wrote:
SallyUUKent - Clinton did not win the delegate total in Texas. Texas has a wierd caucas-primary system. The second step in Tx. gave additional delegates to Obama, topping Clinton, but no one will say it, mostly msm won't say it.
OK, but even if Obama did win Texas, Hillary did win the delegate rich states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York and California, which the Dems desperately need in order to win the White House in November. Her base of support is also badly needed by the Dems for any chance at a November victory. So that puts the Dems in a real bind as this divisive battle goes on and on and on: Do we want both Hillary and Obama on a ticket together in order to unify their support bases behind the Democratic banner, or are we willing to sacrifice the Reagan Democrats to McCain and hope that what's left will be enough to secure a victory?
It's a tough, tough dilemma, and the longer that the Dems fail to resolve their differences, the more time that McCain has to run basically unopposed and secure plenty of voters and money in order to keep the White House in Republican hands for another 4-8 years, which would, for certain, spell near doom for the future of the Democratic Party, if, at this golden opportunity, they failed to secure the land's top office.
That's a possibility that I don't even want to contemplate right now, with our ever deepening recession and the wars going on unabated for years and years on end, further draining our country of money and resources that could be used here at home.
Don't get out, Hillary, stay in.
You are doing wonders for the destruction of the Democratic Party and what's bad for Democrats it has GOT to be good for America.
Progressives' best hope after Nader is a McCain victory, at least we'll know clearly who our enemy is.
SallyUUKent makes an excellent point about the nostalgia that drives a number of Clinton supporters. It's visible in (to cite just one example) Kernel's post above, which seems to attribute the causes of the '90s boom to Bill Clinton's policies.
This is a fairly widespread idea among Clinton supporters (and is certainly extremely useful to her in her campaign), but economists of just about all stripes (i.e. of varying ideological perspectives) are quite skeptical of the idea. Certainly the economic boom years of the 90s coincided with much of the Clinton administration, but coincidence (as we all know) is not causation.
There are plenty of fine websites that offer competing explanations for the 90s boom for anyone who is interested. One good place to begin would be the Economic Policy Institute, whose recent report on growing income inequality since the 1980s is very solid.
Suffice to say that the notion that Bill Clinton's policies led to the economic boom of the 90s is more an article of political faith than a conclusion arrived at by economic analysis.
This will all be poo-pooed of course by Clinton's supporters, who admittedly feel like things were better for them then than they are now. But SallyUUKent is correct that these conditions aren't going to return even if HRC is elected. The world economy is simply not susceptible to steering by a single deckhand (which is what HRC would be, despite being president of the world's current superpower).
I could (like many others here, whether Obamamaniacs or committed third-party folks) cite plenty of evidence of the bad times of the Clinton era, but that's not the point. The point is simply that many dedicated Clinton supporters have bought into a very simplistic narrative that Bill and Hillary and their wise policies brought about the boom and that it all went bust because of George Jr. (who admittedly is a rank turd)
It's a great political fable, but shoddy economic history.
How do you get rid of a political whore? Don't pay her.
Hoa binh
I've got to agree with SallyUUKent again that if the DP cannot win against McCain in 2008, then the party begins to look like it has been permanently relegated to filling up seats in the legislative branch only.
I have no attachments to the party, but I would certainly vote for one of its candidates if I thought it meant keeping the Repubs out of the executive branch come November.
The problem--as I see it--is that each of the democratic candidates is looking increasingly unlikely to be able to beat McCain, something I would have found astonishing a year ago. The DP may well be on its way to receiving its most humiliating defeat in recent memory.
"There is still a great deal of entrenched racism in this country that time has not managed to dull, and sadly, this is and has been a major factor in this primary season."
How "interesting" it is to always read about white racism regarding voting for Obama or Clinton whereas 90%+ of the african-american voters are in lock-step with Sen. Obama..... hmmmmmmmmm double standards EVERYWHERE. YUCK!
Hey sLiMsHaDy, are you seriously trying to suggest that Senator Clinton is the victim of both sexism and (reverse)racism?!?
Two further questions:
1) Are you nuts?
2) Is your real name Bill Clinton?
Once again, Professor Green writes an outstanding article. Yes, Hillary has money, power, fame, etc., but she obviously lacks humility and thinks she's entitled to the presidency merely because her pervert, lecher husband was president. Does that mean Laura Bush will run for president next time around? I for one am tired of the Bush-Clinton dynasty.
Hillary should be ashamed of herself, but unlike a normal person, she has no shame. If she's the nominee, which I doubt very much she will be, I'll vote Green.
Kernel wrote: Under (Billary), as you haters love to say, our economy was good...
And don't forget, we were then closer to banning nuclear weapons than at any other time in history. Now we have a national policy of pre-emptive nuclear strikes. Sigh.
If the situation was reversed it would be Billary saying that Obama is a traitor to the Democrats.
She wouldnt be saying he has a right to stay in.
That's the joke here.
The best candidates are still two the Ralphs. Nader and Wiggum.
But Obama IS more promising than Clinton.
You would have to be retarded not to see that, especially with what she has done in the last couple of months, throwing the race issue around, threatening Iran. Just pathetic.
This article seems to forget some important truths. Having a former President for a family member does have certain advantages--were the woman named Kennedy, or Reagan, she too would be treated with more indulgence than most otherwise similarly qualified women by party power brokers.
Added to that, the collective markers "Ol Spongebill no pants" (I like that characterization!) can call in and you have a formidible advantage. The entire point for most people (including Barack let's be honest!) running for political office is so that they can sell their influence to the highest bidder and the people they are suppossed to represent can all go to hell.
Eric J-D, I really like your posts. Especially your point that Presidents do not dictate economic policy. That comes from above the Presidency. The Gini quotient has been rising for 30 years, although admittedly most rapidly during the Clinton administration. So I would say there is some Presidential influence involved.
Hillary Clinton comes from the privileged class and Bill has made every effort to forget his roots. Obama hasn't forgotten or abandoned his roots. Of course he hasn't been in politics very long either. Maybe time is a factor. So maybe we should elect him before he has time to be corrupted. Of course, some people don't get corrupted. Names like Lincoln come to my mind.
jgabree, the Democrats may be free to pile on McCain, but so far, Hillary has been interested only in piling on Obama, much to the detriment of the Democrats. McCain's been getting away with redefining himself, much to his advantage. I do agree the nominating process should go on to the last primary, but I would much rather see the Democrats turn on McCain instead of each other, and let the electorate decide which one is better at going after him instead of which one is better at going after another Democrat. Who is the real enemy here? Is that all the Democrats can do is eat their own young?
kathyodat
No one should be telling Hillary to get out. The fact that the convention is in August and there are still primaries, no one should be forced out.
Of course, she didn't speak up (nor Obama) when Kucinich and Mike Gravel was excluded from the debates. Interesting.
Don't mistake me for a Hillary supporter, I think that she is the worst candidate of them all (even McCain) and how she became a democratic contender would be a mystery until I remind myself what the democratic party leadership is about.
Who will the democrats vote for? There are some of us who won't accept the "Anybody but McCain" as a reason to vote for a democrat. And the democratic party leadership should remember that 'Anybody but Bush' didn't work in the last two elections.
PS - Bill Clinton was not a noteworhty president. The fact that some people were better off financially should not be translated automatically to mean that he was a better leader for prinicples of peace and justice. Far from it.
so it goes...
"If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from." ~ Hillary Clinton February 2007
the wise will now be moving out of the usa.. mostly to a conservative province in canada.. big harm is coming to the masses of americans..
americans have been dumded down by the robber barons and now the masses could care less if they vote for monsters or hitlers just so long as they satisfy their brainwashing feeling..
the democrat party the robber barons came to brainwash the feminists and abortionists.... women are given a quality of unconditional love cause they must love all their children each TYPE of child.. the robber barons has brainwashed them into taking feminism and abortion as THEIR CHILDREN and now they give unconditional love for people who seem strongest on these 2 issues...
on the right christians have been brainwashed about sociaism and equality.. both are the foundation blocks of true christianity.. socialism is true christianity!! so these people vote for people agaist equality of benefits and respect...
america is a magnet for the worlds GREED.. we will cleanse the world of its greed types.. they will come HERE.. a chance to become rich IF one makes slaves out of the people .. this
so america is becoming the bulls eye of the worlds greed and then destruction will come HERe.. just part of the natural law process.. but will be very painful here so best to move to canada and then come back after the destruction..
the clintons with a PROVEN record against the interests of 95% americans getting that many votes tells you people are just so dumded down that there is no hope or chance to save america... and let natural law work its natural way of destruction.. then we can move back...
time to FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
the wise will now be moving out of the usa.. mostly to a conservative province in canada.. big harm is coming to the masses of americans..
americans have been dumded down by the robber barons and now the masses could care less if they vote for monsters or hitlers just so long as they satisfy their brainwashing feeling..
the democrat party the robber barons came to brainwash the feminists and abortionists.... women are given a quality of unconditional love cause they must love all their children each TYPE of child.. the robber barons has brainwashed them into taking feminism and abortion as THEIR CHILDREN and now they give unconditional love for people who seem strongest on these 2 issues...
on the right christians have been brainwashed about sociaism and equality.. both are the foundation blocks of true christianity.. socialism is true christianity!! so these people vote for people agaist equality of benefits and respect...
america is a magnet for the worlds GREED.. we will cleanse the world of its greed types.. they will come HERE.. a chance to become rich IF one makes slaves out of the people .. this
so america is becoming the bulls eye of the worlds greed and then destruction will come HERe.. just part of the natural law process.. but will be very painful here so best to move to canada and then come back after the destruction..
the clintons with a PROVEN record against the interests of 95% americans getting that many votes tells you people are just so dumded down that there is no hope or chance to save america... and let natural law work its natural way of destruction.. then we can move back...
time to FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
Eric J-D, and others-
You miss the point entirely. Apparently caucasians that do not vote for Sen. Obama are racists according to the Obamarama crue because Barack really is the new Jesus and he knows everything and he doesn't have to spell anything out- it must all be assummed on faith.
And finally, to answer the two stupid questions you put forth, no, no I am not. and NO.
While I can readily understand the support of african-americans for the first viable african-american candidate, I feel it is just a trick by the PTBs to further marginalize the african-american and likely democratic party vote at a time when it can not be afforded. And SOOoooo many are falling for it.
Just as I was left gasping in disbelief that ANYONE could even mildly support another bush in office way back in 2000, I stand absolutely dumbfounded that the people/sheeple are being led by the nose AGAIN so that everything continues on the McSame insane path that we have been put on.
Similarly, regarding the sexism and the victimhood statement, it is all a distraction doing as it was intended to divide and conquer. I see it, you do not. I will blame "you" and your ilk for the debacle to come.
Eric J-D, and others-
You miss the point entirely. Apparently caucasians that do not vote for Sen. Obama are racists according to the Obamarama crue because Barack really is the new Jesus and he knows everything and he doesn't have to spell anything out- it must all be assumed on faith.
While I can readily understand the support of african-americans for the first viable african-american candidate, I feel it is just a trick by the PTBs to further marginalize the african-american and likely democratic party vote at a time when it can not be afforded. And SOOoooo many are falling for it.
Just as I was left gasping in disbelief that ANYONE could even mildly support another bush in office way back in 2000, I stand absolutely dumbfounded that the people/sheeple are being led by the nose AGAIN so that everything continues on the McSame insane path that we have been put on.
Similarly, regarding the sexism and the victimhood statement, it is all a distraction doing as it was intended, to divide and conquer. I see it, you do not. I will blame "you" and your ilk for the debacle to come.
And finally, to answer the two stupid questions you put forth, no, no I am not. and NO.
people need to understand whats going on here....
the world is being CLEANSED of their greed types by america.. america has set up a system where they can make people be slaves and live in misery but they will get rich from doing so..
and more and more the wise will leave to canada as the greed types of canada come here....
all this makes canada and the other countrys much better for we the people.. and makes america closer to a total destruction episode from the greed exploding an area..
its like how an explosion works... once the greed level gets so high there is a explosion...
Fleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
oh- and the "edit" function on this site McSucks!!! LOL
Words are Important- I am on the same page as you are.
Im not defending anybody, I am just saying that I have to thank Mrs. Clinton for getting my boyfriend to register to vote.
He believes in her health care plan, and her ability to get things done because she has a decent track record as first lady. Then again, he is studying to be a doctor... *spare me the failed hilarycare stuff, I know and don't care--everyone fails*
I am in agreement that she is being an incredibly poor sport about the election, and i fear that she'll pull a Roosevelt (which got Wilson elected--not that Wilson was a bad president, in fact I think he was a pretty good one), but she isn't playing dirty--she's still in the limitations of the game, just because other candidates weren't willing to foot the bill, doesn't mean that that she's a bad person.
Really, if it you dream when you were a little kid to some day be president and then all of the sudden you had the opportunity to do it, would you want to fight the "inevitable" or would you deny yourself your dream? So what she's had a good track record, she hasn't fullfilled her "self-actualization" and I don't think it is actually admirable that we have a candidate that is determined to really follow her dream. That kind of dedication... isn't that a good thing for a president to have?
People say her dedication is selfishly motivated, but I have a more sneaking feeling that it is aimed at her real care to improve A)the livelihood of our children B) reducing outsourcing to keep the stability of employment...
Finally all in one place. I think it's remarkable that people are saying Obama hasn't beaten her, so she should keep doing all of the vile things she's doing. Hasn't beaten her??? We're talking about the woman with a 30% lead in national polls a year ago! Now she's behind. She has completely LOST a sure-thing lead...why? Not because she did anything particularly wrong or dumb, but because people don't like her, don't trust her, and he came along with a refreshing idea of what politics COULD be in this country. Her hate machine has kept people confused enough that she's not out, but look at the reality, the larger picture, she's in an almost unwinnable position after being a virtual LOCK and now she's selling herself on "not quitting", it borders on the absurd.
I can't help but remember Bill saying---"I'm only going to say this once"---the rest is history. We need some new rules that apply for those relocating to other states and running for political office in that state. While on the subject of serving, how about some term limits? Let some new people get in there. Politics should be more of a duty taken on for a short time, not a career spanning decades. Why are we funding these people with "The Real Lifes of the Rich and Famous"? Are we going to have this "All in the Family" routine again and again? One other thing, it is my opinion that any candidate for office, that is already serving in an elected capacity, must resign that office to seek higher office or lateral office, unless they have already completed their original term. While all these guys and gals are out there running for the big job, who is minding the store? Oh, I forgot, they are staying in touch by cell fone. By the way, does anyone know how many days out of the average month, the congress is actually there and working?
Let both of the candidates finish the primaries, please. We don't need even more people feeling disinfranchised like the people in Florida and Michigan.
Hillary 2008-20016, then Jeb 2016-2024.
By that time, Chelsea will be of the minimum constitutional age of 35.
Followed, of course, by Barbara or Jenna.
Please, people. Keep it simple. We're Americans.
This thread is so interesting - first a post for one candidate, then one for the other. And the vitriol! The harsh words! Who needs Republican slime-mongers when the Democrats do this to themselves?
Again and again I call for unity in the Democratic party. This two-way firing squad tears the party apart, slur by slur, doing Rove's job for him.
After the convention the time span will be so short till election that Rovain tactics will predominate. Now is the time for a strategical uniting, a voluntary collaboration, so that both candidates' supporters will be 'winners' and will stand together against the common enemy.
Billary is a spoiler trying the Tonya Harding trick. We all know Bill will not die if he is not returned as co-president to the White House, where he can pick up on his old habit of chasing interns.
Hillary is just like Mc Cain: inflicted by old age, which creates serious problems in differentiating fact from fiction - case in point, Mc Cain on Hamas and Hillary on Bosnia.
It time she left the race with the little dignity she has remaining.
All you Obamaniacs and Hillarions may as well hold your tongues, because it's too late.
Every four years you repeat the mantra, "Maybe some day we can afford to vote our consciences, but this time we must prevent the Republicans from winning." And so you argue over which primary candidate is the most "electable".
Let us be clear on this: There is no such thing as an unelectable candidate. A candidate is electable if you vote for him or her and persuade other people to do the same. If you render a candidate unelectable by withholding your vote on the grounds that he or she is unelectable, that's your choice, but don't complain about it afterward.
So in 2000 and again in 2004 you chose a colourless but "electable" twit, and cursed Ralph Nader as a "spoiler". And what did you gain? Bush won anyway (by means which have been adequately described elsewhere), and you taught the Democratic Party leadership that the Party doesn't have to do a damn thing for the people -- they need only refrain from some of the evils of the Republican Party, and you'll always come back for more. Now they're about to find out whether they can be shameless enablers of the Republican Party and you'll still come back for more.
If you had voted en masse for the Green Party in 2000, you would still have gotten Bush, but at least you would have given the Democratic Party a salutary shock. The purpose of a "third party" (a uniquely American creature, existing nowhere else that I know of) is not to win elections. Third parties cannot win elections, largely because the Americans have decided in advance that they cannot win elections. Their function is to inspire in politicians the one motive that will cause them to pretend harder to serve the public: fear of losing their power. What has the Democratic Party to fear now?
So, as the "unsinkable" Ship of State USS Barbaric raises its rear end to the world prior to gurgling into the abyss, you may as well find yourself a comfortable deck chair.