• Cancers: Animal studies show an increased risk for breast cancer among mice exposed to low doses of BPA prior to birth, and cell culture studies show that the presence of BPA may pose problems for men battling prostate cancer.

• Brain disorders: BPA exposure in the womb — at levels lower than doses considered safe by the EPA — modified the brain in rats in a manner that confused their sexual identities, resulting in the demasculinization of males and the defeminization of females, according to a study in Japan.

**more horrors on the altar of science, treating innocents worse than the most despised of criminals, in order to investigate products that should never have been on the market in the first place--which were created by other scientists, so much for "progress" as the disciples of the secular religion say. You do have to wonder the mental disorders caused in the womb that leads one to become a career sadist.

There is precious little investigation into why scientists have such a warped understanding of basic ethical principles of fairness and compassion.

They would help a homeless man by kicking a family out of their house and beating them to death--then calling it an act of kindness.

Kelmer wrote:

"There is precious little investigation into why scientists have such a warped understanding of basic ethical principles of fairness and compassion."

In all fairness to genuine scientists, the people who design the potentially harmful materials for a profit-seeking corporation are chemical engineers (and unethical ones at that), not scientists.

while we're at it don't forget the mass experiments with micro-wave, cooking and phoning home, or your trist, of course that may be more dangerous, not to mention driving a car, or curse as you know 30% of all trafic fatalities are caused by drunk drivers, of course statistics and logic would tell you driving drunk is safer, cause 70% are sober, still we err on the side of caution and thro people in jail, for drinking, even though they have not run over anyone... why not be careful with the chemicals we injest???!!! wisdom, hmmm, payola democrazy-yes, government by bribery, boot em all out, including the debt, and start over,,,,big smile

Oil and its plastics sure are handy, if you're willing to pay the price. There is no free lunch.

Once again we see a classic health scare. Fortunately this one is fairly benign.

However, this announcement is pure politics by the Canadian government.

Here is what the Canadian Cancer Society has to say:
(updated Feb, 2008) "We do not know if exposure to bisphenol A increases your risk of cancer or can have other effects on your health" and "At this time, the Canadian Cancer Society does not have any specific recommendations because it is not clear whether bisphenol A increases the risk of developing cancer." They go on to say "This research has not been done in people, and scientists do not know whether the results of the studies in laboratory animals apply to humans." This last point is crucial and I am glad the reporter actually mentions this. Here in Canada this point is often ignored by the media.
Humans are not little rats (and the poison is in the dose)! Chocolate is toxic to my dog, but I can eat it. Should we ban chocolate?!

Fred vom Saal is a champion of the BPA health scare (this can be confirmed by looking at a research database). Why not get the views of an independent scientists rather than von Saal or the chemical industry?

Hey, maybe we could use g l a s s for drinking water

you know like a _ G L A S S _ of _ W A T E R ___ ?

It might even work for _ M I L K _ (e.g. a glass of milk)

I think the scientists that made this crap should volunteer to start digging it out of the landfills or publically admit they are and have been poisoning people indiscriminately for years.

kelmer April 23rd wrote:
"There is precious little investigation into why scientists have such a warped understanding of basic ethical principles of fairness and compassion."

They aren't scientists. They're corporate hacks.

The real scientists are here:

http://www1.environmentalhealthnews.org/

Merryolddsoul notes:

"while we're at it don't forget the mass experiments with micro-wave, cooking and phoning..."

Actualy cell phoning has been shown to be potentially carcinogenic and damaging to DNA. For some excellent presentations on the subject go to:

http://www.tucradio.org/new.html

Then click on the programs titled:

"The Bioinitiative Report"
and
"Our Electric Bodies and the Ever-Thickening Electro-Smog"

Both are presented by serious scientists reviewing serious research findings.

It is truly amazing how many warning signs we ignore in pursuit of ever-increasing consumption for consumption's sake. Think about that the next time you go to the supermarket and see most of the ladies (and a lot of the guys) with a cell phone stuck next to their ear.

"Hey, maybe we could use g l a s s for drinking water

you know like a _ G L A S S _ of _ W A T E R ___ ?

It might even work for _ M I L K _ (e.g. a glass of milk)"

might not go well attached to waist or while hiking though.

I can't believe the statements from some of the comments here...

Putting chemicals into our food chain, genetic modification, pesticides to increase SOMEONES bottom line, with utter disregard for the future.

Why?.. because some shill (paid researcher) finds the levels are acceptable.. but acceptable to whom?.. you got it the Agri Biz and chem giants.

Dr. Ann Wigmore, the highly intuitive discoverer of wheatgrass therapy, told us that SOFT plastic is even FAR MORE dangerous, when used as liquid or solid food containers.

READ THIS

http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/newscience/oncompounds/bisphenola/2008/2008-0406willhiteetal.html

This is a well written article that brings up good points.

YES we all are liberal and do not like corporate evil, BUT it discredits us when we cry and complain about these little things. You all know damn well that no one was intentionally hurting people when they designed Nalgene bottles

GROW UP PEOPLE

Are you living on Mars, with a dial-up connection RiseAboveIt ?

You state, like you seriously believe that" no one was intentionally hurting people"

R E A D __ T H I S __ PSY-OPS

Have you not seen the evisceration (and back peddling) of nearly every health, food, housing, education, trade, securities, banking, and environmental regulation (that weren't already de-regulated) possible in the last 7.5 years ?

Do you usually speak so patronizingly to those you TALK to, or attempt to convince by TELLING them that they're essential CHILDREN, if they don't follow you potty training rules and ideas ? It called subtle manipulation, and it sneaks under the subconscious radar, RIGHT Mr meme-maker ?

I guess it was those complicit democrapers, seeing that they're ALWAYS so much into making govt smaller and privatization, right ?

Thank you, Mr. (RiseAboveIt) Nalgene. Glad to see you're unbiased! Have you sold your shares yet? Too late now, I think. Oh, and I wouldn't replicate if I were you. One of you is enough on our continent.

Treefrog

"I think the scientists that made this crap should volunteer to start digging it out of the landfills or publically admit they are and have been poisoning people indiscriminately for years."

I think you should be forced to give up everything in your entire life even remotely linked to science, until you aplogize for making such an incredibly sweeping, insulting, ridiculous, generalization.

What do you mean "grow up people?' When there is money to be made, looking the other way, has become the norm. Even if in this case, or a few other toxic nightmares, where people might not know, once they do they usually keep right on doing ,what they have been doing because of the profit and not wanting to take a loss.
Also, this and other toxic chemicals are not a little thing. Tunnel vision, being naive, or just downright out of it, this is one of the worst denials I have seen in awhile. We are as sick as our surroundings. Our surroundings are making us sick. Our immune systems can only take so much and future generations may have less chance then we have now, as "THESE LITTLE THINGS" add up, and they are not so little anymore, I hope we will all be able to grow up and help our Mother Earth to nurture us all . Not just the one-percent, whom are hiding behind their fortresses and their greed and their illusions that they are safe. Because they have skin, just like the rest of us,, even if they can afford good food and water, their pores will pick up the insidious crap, just like the rest of us.

Countries with universal health care are much faster to regulate cancer causing products because the government knows they will bear the cost. In the USA, corporations make money selling you the toxic poison AND selling you the cure. What a wonderful system.

… I don't feel so "bad" about jumping on Mr CLEAN's BOTTLE, with some other's responding (somewhat) in kind.

I do know what I feel, and it makes me sick -- the "HUMANITY of it", all that twisted up belly wrenching under the skin MANIPULATIVE programming of HUMANITY -- to turn us into WHAT ?ROBOTS FOLLOWING ORDERS,
with no free will, and with
_N O __ H U M A N I T Y __ l e f t

namaste
tpb
sunny24

AND WHOEVER ELSE

All I am doing is saying that us as liberal activists (at least I hope you all are activists) should focus on important things. Everyone is just bitching about corporate greed and etc. all the time. WE MUST GET OUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT

If you disagree with how this all works, then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT

DON'T BUY NALGENES
DON'T GO TO WALMART
DON'T WEAR ANY CLOTHES MADE IN CHINA
GO VEGAN

I don't buy Nalgenes or shop at Walmart

I am not saying that fighting corporate America is unimportant, I am just saying that capitalism is the system in which we live. CORPORATIONS WANT MONEY and all of our actions support that. Not enough people will ever listen to us that complaining will help. You want change? Do something, support a candidate that will do something, run for office yourself, but don't sit here and cry about corporate America when it is the system you all have allowed

YOU DESERVE TO LIVE IN THE WORLD THAT YOU ALLOW

I stand by my comment, GROW UP; you deserve what you allow.

tfp

PLEASE RESPECT

I'm in high school, and I volunteer hours upon hours upon hours for the peace movement and for social justice. I am the most active and aware citizen of my 1500 person school.

Go ahead and replicate, but don't spread your poisonous arrogance too much. I already have to deal with a $9.4T debt, let alone people like YOU

Thank you, Namaste

It is try that my peers fall into two groups:

1. Not Active (Apathy)
2. Activists (Cynics)

The active youth really only see the corruption and have been raised in the age of Bushism, and all we remember from Clinton is damn scandals and being confused why these scandals mattered.

Luckily, I have been blessed in going to a good school that offers trips to France, Germany, Spain, all of Europe, and Africa. I've gone on the Africa trip a couple times and I've been to Europe a couple times.

My question to you is:

How can you make the youth care now? How do you give them hope? Being an Iowan and hearing the rhetoric forever, most of my peers are tired of Obama's emptiness and Cliton's bitchiness (A lot of people liked Richardson). So politics doesn't give us much hope, and the seasoned teachers who remember a better time are being phased out. What is there to do?

RiseAboveIt -- I will think more deeply, as your query is a profound one, but for now:

Intimacy (two moving as one, toward a common goal) and Love (interdependence, self-sacrifice) are names for levels of communication between humans, that can and do inspire trust, hope, joy, and passion.

Language is our cypher of perceptions, and w/o words to express something, we are driven to create new words or make use of older ones in newer ways. Language thus is constantly evolving and even more essential for your query, it tells the story at many levels all at once.

Many people will give away their secrets to total strangers, and are closest friends might at times appear to us as speaking a incomprehensible gibberish -- two more extremes of communication. Many people are w/o hope directly because of the language they mimic from "news" and entertainment, or the propaganda net that is cast everywhere to snag the poorly alert and complacent minds, as one w/o purpose or convictions ( e.g. principles ) they become enslaved in not so a minor way to foreign thoughts.

People have always been susceptible to mythologies, stories, heros, and villains of their times -- and these images and like Carl Jung said archetypical forms -- carry manifold meaning, again at many levels. Structured rights of initiation were once prevalent, and this process of discarding the things of boys (& girls) to take on those of men (& women). We have spawned in many ways a potpourri of many cultures, w/o having a central core of anything, it all becomes melted into almost a slag heap of confusion.

HOPE to me is a seed (that like love) that grows especially well when people care for each other, and connect and communicate with something beyond just words -- the lack thereof is when peoples' language has been bastardized and actually causes alienation, distrust, fear, separation, and other forms of protection. A joyous person will inspire a portion of that in others, up to a point, but no further. People's experience is as you expressed earlier, many do need to grow up and out of limiting constructions and beliefs, much of which denigrate and trivialize humanity's most finest aspects.

There is in actuality, an abundance of "raining soup" of our graceful (full of grace, not just pleasing form or motion) and positive aspects of being - it is our birthright, and all cultures have delved into and discovered these common truths, witnessed by so many similar experiences, across all other characteristics of being alive and in one particular culture.

In some ways, "hitching one's wagon to a star" is prototypical of the transformation available to any, through the simplest yearnings and dreams. It is my belief, that almost any honest pursuit of truth, following one's passion, will lead to greater truths or better paths -- but none are perfect for all -- and we trying on various ones as if they were hats seeing if one fits better than another.

The churches can and do package spiritual practice, but not in the outer church going circles, and mostly to those already committed to life-long practice (monks, nuns) - that may not last that long.

That's all for now, and hopefully something in here can aid you and your peers to engage in something bigger than themselves, as reaching out and GIVING is a primary virtue (which you already know of through volunteering). Your path is a good one for yourself, and something similar may work for others -- but mostly one has to feel around and try out many systems of beliefs -- discarding some pieces along the way, that one can later still pick back up.

ONe has to work for HOPE, but it is also quite elusive (in taking up hardly any space, it can fit in everywhere), in that one can generate it out of nothingness. Victor Frankl's "Mans Search for Meaning" is an example of the purest human spirits gaining the ineffable (beyond form, w/o words to explain), while suffering the most gruesome fate in Nazi concentration camps -- talk about having hope when the evidence for it is pretty scarce …

Namaste

kendpotter

I the choice is have or not have the affects of science I would gladly comply with your request however that at the current time is not possible. I would add the affects of science will be felt for thousands of years to come. Science is manipulated and corrupt.

Thank you, it is always nice to hear the opinions of others, especially outside of my community (nothing against Iowa).

If you get a chance, read The True Believer by Eric Hoffer someday. It's rather short and very interesting.

Oh, and by the way, I do NOT use Nalgene bottles or drink bottled water :)

What set me off was the comment "I think the scientists that made this crap should volunteer to start digging it out of the landfills or publically admit they are and have been poisoning people indiscriminately for years."

I trust that humans are naturally good, so I find it hard to believe that scientists deliberately tried to hurt people when making this material. My grandfather was a chemical engineer and my father is a scientist who studies global warming. Scientists are not perfect. Science is expanding.

Should we make scientists who invented cell phones apologize because phones can give you cancer?

I have enjoyed this dialogue

Peace

When science poisons millions of people it is called incompetence. You cannot pollute the entire world with this stuff and just say oppps...my bad. I'm sorry I just don't buy all the lame excuses, all the wasted resources and unethical methods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPI7zdGdqo4

GE, we bring good things to life! Then help them die.

Tree Frog -- Love the scary truths of "modern" medicine -- its like the dark ages STILL.

Thank you.

Canada declared BPA a toxic chemical based on the research of American scientists.

Strange how their research is not benefitting their own people.

OK, after that feature in The National, public opinion has been against bisphenol-A so Canada banning it is basically jumping on the bandwagon after the fact.

"Better Baby Bottles" - The National

http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/special_feature/green_rush/better_baby_bottles.html

Should Health Canada move quickly to ban bisphenol A?
Yes 80%
No 20%
Total Votes: 967 (Poll in WPG Free Press)

Was the federal government right to arrest seal hunt protesters and seize their boat?
Yes 73%
No 27%
Total Votes: 1460 (Poll in WPG Free Press)

Strange how many things become public issues because of something seen on the CBC - not only do we reveal cases of the wrongfully convicted, but we also managed to get one former KKK member in Mississippi charged and convicted with murder. And there are those who want the CBC to become more like PBS.

RE: DON'T GO TO WALMART

Threatened my son if he doesn't pass all his courses this semester that I will walk into Walmart and breath their chemical filled air. So either he passes everything or I stay in Walmart until I pass out.

Treefrog

"kendpotter I the choice is have or not have the affects of science I would gladly comply with your request..."

I think you are full of crap. The first sore tooth you got would have you running to the dentist hoping you don't pee yourself on the way so you could have nice scientifically invented crown put on.

"however that at the current time is not possible."

Of course not, you would have to give up all your scientifically derived comforts, not to mention the ability to voice your ridiculous opinions using your scientifically created laptop on the scientifically created internet.

"I would add the affects of science will be felt for thousands of years to come."

You can only hope so.

"Science is manipulated and corrupt."

Oh, name calling is it? Okay, you're an asshole and a moron.

Kendpotter

Don't even think you know how I live, I'm not problem even if I were an asshole or a moron (use of this word sort of makes you an asshole too) I still would not have poisoned people under the pretext of profit....

Namaste

You are welcome...I have to quit talking about this stuff though.

Treefrog

Wow. Lot's of vituperative over water bottles. I'm not a chemist or chemical engineer, but I am a scientist and I read/interpret science a lot. Based on my reading of the original source material that all this hoopla is based on I plan to; 1) throw out all of my Nalgenes that are over 5 years old, 2) continue using the others. The leach rates in the newer bottles are quite low -- it's the older ones that seem problematic.

Regarding the manipulation and/or corruption of science -- this depends on what you mean by science. In my view, it's a way of asking questions that is particularly useful for understanding natural phenomena. As such, it is among the most powerful intellectual tools every created by humans. Like all tools, it can be misused. When it is, however, it is rarely the actual scientist doing it. I studies science and continue to practive it because I love the intrinsic intellectual beauty of it. I also appreciate its power to help and heal. I would be dead right now if it wasn't for medical science, and if it wasn't for agricultural science I would probably be starving. I can type this message on my computer thanks to physics, chemistry, biology, engineering, materials science, etc. etc., and I certainly appreciate the ability to do that. I will go to bed tonight and sleep very well knowing that even as we speak, the results of my research are being used to save the lives of people who would otherwise die.

If you don't want to use Nalgene bottles, don't. If you don't want to use any aspect of science, DON'T.

Treefrog

"Kendpotter
Don't even think you know how I live,"

Let me guess, you live with a computer attached to the internet. Of course it could be a homemade device powered by the humming of silkworms and attached to the web by magic, but I would be willing to bet - NOT!

"I'm not problem even if I were an asshole or a moron (use of this word sort of makes you an asshole too)"

I didn't start the name calling, asshole!

"I still would not have poisoned people under the pretext of profit…."

I wonder how you came by your God-like sense of omniscience? No one is really sure if or how dangerous the chemical is in the first place - but you know - even though you have demonstrated limited ability/discipline/scientific understanding.

You are certain the scientists are evil people poisoning for fun and profit (or at least profit anyway)! How do you know all this? I am going to discount the pretense that you are God since you would have struck me down with a lightning bolt instead of reply-posting.

That would mean you are guessing, and since two can play that game, I can guess that you are a moron.

Kendpotter

Listen up Ken, you can guess whatever you like but a person that functions at a level you suggest would probably not be having this conversation and that would still be an incorrect term.

It is not just this chemical but thousands more like them and the concomittent levels of disease and disability all paid for at our expense...that included you. And, not just the chemicals but the procedures that even I understand as only meeting a scientific level of acceptability at the exclusion of full disclosure or consent. Then, no accountability or even remorse. I'm not guessing, look around you...try observation. Try reading labels.

I'm not the issue here, I was legally mandated to take people off harmfull medications they had been on for years without proper oversight. Just one small thing I say to people that refuse to look at the issue objecctively.

dgoodin

Where are you going to throw them?

Treefrog,

Now you are starting to speak like a rational human being with some kind of reasoning behind your statements. I agree with you - Sometimes it seems as though we are submerged into some kind of toxic chemical soup. Then, I remember that nature also places plenty of toxic chemicals into our environment. Somehow, we managed to survive millenia in spite of those toxic substances. Now that we are reaching ever greater ages, chronic illnesses that were never known before are cropping up. Is it due to man- introduced chemical variations into our environment? I believe that is quite possible, but don't possess the epidemiological background to say one way or the other. I am convinced that genetic predisposition has a significant effect on one's vulnerability. In any event, a great deal of research needs to be done by scientists of many different disciplines before any thing is know for certain.

I hope you know that I mean you no real insult. But, I dislike it when people make sweeping genralizations, offered as though they were the TRUTH, as handed down from on high Ten Commandment style, with no basis in fact. That is faith, something the Conservative, Christian, Right-Wingers are renowned for. I expect more from you.

kendpotter

I think an important thing to consider is that people have found ways to be comfortable long before science existed. As some isolated tribes that don't have modern chronic diseases, cancer, infectious diseases and know how to treat the illness they do have. It is this world that we might have some difficulty discussing. It is my opinion that if science whats to create and contol these mechanism then it should be up front about it, especially here in the U.S. where economic interests impact ethical decisions. There is plenty of epidemological data on this. I know that there is a constant effort to frame the issue in scientific terms to the exclusion of other valid lifeways but as someone else said that will not change the nature order order it will simply give an incomplete picture of it.

There are no hard feelings here lol

Namaste

Cheers!

Treefrog

Hi treefrog,

Fine and excellent points, and well made. I am particularly incensed over the fact that economics and politics make prostitutes of scientists and debases science.

Thanks for your contributions.

Be well,

Ken

Ken

Thanks to you for your contribution as well, glad we found some common ground.

Treefrog