((Sorry all, for any pseudo-duplication. I'm having trouble and some lag trying to upload or edit.))

Vaudree -

Add the Bilderburg Group to the list, too.

Obama's being trashed by the media too ---bittergate, Rev. Wright loops, ABC debate, general downplay of Obama fever.

It is one thing to have your patriotism questioned by your republican challenger and quite another to have it be done by a person hoping to win the democratic nomination. I have witnessed many elections in my lifetime but I have never seen a democrat as slimey as Hillary Clinton.

Obama should respond to "patriotism" attacks with even louder attacks on Bush-McCain. "I'm running on 2008, not 1970, Iraq, not Vietnam. Do you want four more years of Bush? Do you want four more years of incompetent, do-nothing politics in Washington?"

One of the things that is different this time is that the people are tuned in to Barack Obama's honest offer of change in government directed to and for the common people rather than away and above them. Also,this time, because of the Internet Information
highway, many are very well informed, especially the younger citizens. Add to that Hillary Clinton and her husband's campaign of attacks and lies and we have a lot of voters not only terribly sick and tired of the miserable government crimminality and the wars but they want to see some semblance of intelligence and honor in the election. Barack Obama, even with his so called faults, is so different than the status quo. We need hope, we need to dream again, we need to find something true and right in this campaign.If we reject the only one who inspires us because we fear he is too different or one of the accusations constantly tossed out in the media may actually be true, we could miss the only chance we may ever have to right the wrongs of this generation. If we allow (false)patriotism and fear(homeland security)to be the focus of the general election, which the Republicans and the media will try to impose on us,the rest of the election will be so irrelevent to the important issues as to be worthless.Basically, it is up to the people to reject it. We need to demand an honest and relevant coverage by the media of important issues and settle for nothing less. American people need to take back their power! We have it, let's use it. I've already noticed a lot of change in the reporting since the election started, with more unspoken subjects being aired. We can keep the momentum going as it has in the primaries or let it slip away by Republican manipulation in the general election. It's up to us.

I'm not a Democrat, concerned or otherwise, but this article smacks of the perspective progressive bloggers refer to as Concern Troll.

A Concern(ed) Troll typically reinforces wingnut talking points while ostensibly expressing concern that the candidate doesn't run afoul of them.

Minor asides, such as the observation that blood-soaked monster Deadeye Dick Cheney gave a "funny performance" while merely "joshing" about Obama is telling. (So, Vennochi implies, imagine what will happen when real comedians like Dennis Miller go on the attack?)

The Concern Troll, or Concern Columnist, buys into the pathological political and corporate media status quo, and accepts the Through the Looking-Glass manufactured reality at face value.

I feel compelled to disclose on all comments that I remain undecided, and am not an Obamaniac; still, it's obvious that Obama is challenging the premises of this manufactured reality and hopes to wrench enough voters out of the claustrophobic and circular ruts in political discourse carved out by the power elite and deepened further by uncritical acceptance. (Of course, he's also doing the requisite pandering, which his supporters excuse as a necessity because of the pseudo-"realities" that are making Vennochi reach for her pearls.)

If the writer is correct, and Obama continues to be targeted by the Wingnut Jingo Strike Force-- within and without his own party, BTW-- he won't acquiesce to the puerile terms of these types of smears as did his predecessors, and allow his opponents to take control of the agenda with bogus claims to the moral high ground.

And if worse comes to worst, he might well win over the yahoo sheeple by dramatically gouging his own eyes out with flag lapel pins.

mcmackle__You are right on your assessment of the Obamamania. I have thought for months that the Repugs were behind him all the way and cannot wait to tear into him the same way they have done to the various ones you mentioned.

They are holding their fire now on Obama, but if he gets nominated, look out, the big guns will be used in a hurry.

Why shouldn't the Republicans hold their fire, Hillary, bless her heart, is doing their job for them. McCain is free to campaign without being called to account while the Democrats are hard at work making each other unelectable. Hillary may well cost the Democrats the election, and considering the circumstances, that's pretty amazing.

kathyodat

I appreciate Junna's thoughtful comments above, as well as Little Brother's caution of falling into the "Concern Troll" mode. Though a new term for me, I imagine that when we use the Concern Troll approach, we wind up encouraging more of what we SAY we stand against and then, when it shows up, we get to be right (Yes!). Sadly, that defines the very nature of the system we are hoping to change.

I also have a conviction that to truly support the authentic shift in politics and discourse that I believe Senator Obama is inviting us to co-create involves reaching for the better nature in those who have fallen for cynical political manipulation in the past (and, really, who of us hasn't) rather than demon-izing our fellow citizens or dismissing them as some sort of stupid sheep.

As folks do come around, some compassion will be in order as well, as people will surely experience a sense of betrayal by the leaders they mistakenly put their faith in. Will we welcome them and build greater coalitions or will we take an I-told-you-so attitude for the sake of our own self righteousness and drive them away? I know that's a pitfall I can easily slip into if I'm not paying attention. But I find support in not doing so in partnership with good people from across the political spectrum.

Junna, You are absolutely right. It is up to the people to see through the false attacks and diversions.

dhv,

Well said. Thank you.

Of course Obama's patriotism is going to be called into question.

The powers that be will use any means necessary to maintain the current world order, who in spite of the war and the economy, are still getting all they want, ie- money and power. They are succeeding because their power and money depends on the world's misery, war, and lack of justice.

And what is missing from this picture is that the real critical issues regarding Obama, such as wanting to increase the defense military budget, are not being addressed.

Until the American people and mainstream media really desire a peace and justice candidate, we'll continue to have debates on which candidate is more patriotic, rather than discuss issues like universal health care, GMOs, War, Corporate fraud, decaying infrastructure, lack of mass transportation.

Until we have a candidate and people who want to talk about issues such as conservation, population limits, seperation of church and state etc, we will continue to have these red herring non-issues on patriotism which really means, "are you willing to send other people to die so that you can continue to live in your oversized house with all your electronic toys?"

and so it goes, and goes...

Little Brother, Junna, dhv, very good comments. Obama hasn't appeared to be hurt in the polls from his own "gaffes" in spite of the hysteria from rabid corporate media and Hillary, so I think the public is showing common sense this time around. I think there is a huge hunger for a transformation in politics, Obama is offering that and people are responding. Like myself, they aren't as concerned with his specific policies as they are with his wanting to unite us, return to civil discourse, and turn the control of Washington over to the people and away from the corporations. That's a platform I'm willing to vote for.

kathyodat

Words Are Important, get real. Whatever Obama wants to accomplish, and he has talked about single payer health care in the past - which has NEVER crossed Hillary's lips - his only funding would be from us, and the media would never have even let him out of the starting gate. They can't stop him now, they're trying - look at the lynching at the last debate; it didn't work, it backfired.

This will be a very interesting campaign season. I really can't wait to see him go after McCain. And he's said, he has been gentle with Hillary, but he won't be with McCain. I did notice after her debate performance, he got rougher in his ads, and it serves her right. Some columnist commented that the Clintons have been going after him with a flame thrower and I don't know how long Hillary thought they could go on doing that without him lashing back. It's too bad, but politics is not a gentlemanly sport. In fact, I think we've run out of gentlemanly sports. I'm hoping Obama can bring integrity back into our vocabulary.

kathyodat

For some time now, I have been reading the articles on Common Dreams, but skipping the comments. The self-righteousness, ridicule of the opinions of others, and general nastiness was really getting to me. This country is in desperate need of honest discusssions minus the "gotcha" mentality. All of us need to use our talents and ideas to rescue this country. I am grateful to dhv, hamster, and Junna for setting a different tone and sharing their wisdom.

Obama unofortunately can never work to better our nation or society as his views of born babies should be legaly premitted to be murdered (aka infanticide). We used to call such people Herod's didn't we?

"Little Brother, Junna, dhv, very good comments. Obama hasn't appeared to be hurt in the polls from his own "gaffes" in spite of the hysteria from rabid corporate media and Hillary"

I'd like to suggest Kathyodot's statement is true, but I'd also like to suggest that its only true in our primary. His support won't change over his problems in the primary.

In a general however people are going to want real answer's to questions about Wright, "cling," what Michelle meant, etc. They have no vested interest in his candidacy, so they won't accept what he has said so far.

At least thats my analysis after breaking down what he said, then breaking down his explanations.

all i have to say is ....NOT THIS TIME !!!!! 2008 will be different.....bush and cheney know that mccain can be beat....(the same thing is happening in irag )that is why they had to take out al-sadr.........i hope president bush does try to stop the elections...the revolution we need will begin....OBAMA 2008

mcmackle___Remember Obama has the philosophy of HOPE. He just hopes those other young users will be as lucky as he was and will get off easy and become a great hero.

The War Party want us to choose between Hitlery (Bu$h with tits) and Obomber (Bu$h with a tan) and the blind fools are yet again ready to line up behind them like zombies. I'd just as soon vote for McCane (Bu$h with a cane).

Despite clear and abundant evidence of betrayal and deceit from their beloved War Party, Democrats are ready to be conned again.

Real progressives must NEVER vote Democratic.

Get over 'worrying' about Obama. He's savvy enough without your "help." If you bothered to read his book, The Audacity of Hope, you'd realize he's hip to all that you all keep "worrying" about. Not to change the subject, but of course I am :), how about talking about Hillary getting in bed with Scaife. hahaha! Now I call that the epitome of a woman not able or willing to stand in her own power and allowing herself to be pimped out.:(

Just using the words "Obama's patriotism" together is pathetic - as if "non-patriots" run for public office all the time or something.

"I hate The United States of America so much, I'm going to spend the next 20 years running for State Senate, then the House, then the US Senate, then President - and, once I win that, the first I'll do is sign a secret Executive Order that states the Constitution and Bill of Rights are null and void, another that makes displays of the disgusting, so-called American flag illegal, and one more that, of course, establishes the official policy of the NEW S.A. super-communist."

"I'm BO and I approve of this message. And, if I win, all messages sent by anyone at anytime will have to approved by me before being sent."

We needn't be too concerned about Obama being attacked and losing the general on his youthful admitted cocaine use.
The clear answer to that is McCain's similar, if not worse, admitted youthful behavior of heavy drinking and skirt-chasing anything with two legs, AND THE FACT THAT MCCAIN AND HIS WIFE CINDY CONTINUE AS MEGA-DRUG DEALERS IN THE LEGALIZED JUDGMENT-ALTERING SUBSTANCE CALLED BEER.

The younger half who are trying to elect Obama will just admire him for quitting any drugs and for quitting smoking.

As for Obama himself, he is very, very, very ambitious. But it't not so much about promoting himself as it is about his dream to be the "ultimate" community organizer. He's had this in his heart since the '80s in Chicago and he dreams of going from pulling housing project people together to pressure a landlord to pulling a majority of voters together to pressure every injustice in this country. He is trying really to build that "movement", as opposed to McCain who wants to be president because he thinks it's just "his turn." Worlds of difference.

In American politics, when all else fails, claim the other guy is unpatriotic. It is sure to be a hit because it sounds as if the other guy is "bad" and "hates his country". This crap is so infantile it never rears its head during elections in other Western industrialised nations, which begs the question - why in the U.S.?

Obama '08

Obama '08

Obama '08

to mcmackle,

One's personal use of cocaine is unwise. One's CONTINUED profiteering off the sale of billions of judgment-robbing beers to other people is IMMORAL---REGARDLESS OF WHETHER "LEGAL" OR NOT.

McCain is busy, for instance, selling himself as pro-life, when an argument could be made that some fraction of the beers he and Cindy have sold over 25 years have been the direct proximate cause of thousands upon thousands of untimely pregnancies---not to mention STD transmissions, car wreck deaths, domestic beatings and DWI incarcerations.
"Legal" ain't not excuse and every church person in America knows it. Those are the ones whose votes must be separated from the McCains---merely by telling them the truth about HOW UNBELIEVABLY MUCH BEER THESE TWO HAVE PEDDLED FOR MONEY.

obama will be running to the center during the general, mccain will run further to the right. obama's best strategy would be run further to the left, especially on Iraq (unfortunately he's doing the opposite). if the polls are correct and over 60% of the americans want the troops home and obama runs on this issue, focusing on the economic cost of the war, he could redefine mccains military ambitions (pursuing bush iraq policy) as being myopic, irrespective of mccain's military experience.

obama's inexperience is an asset not a liability. the war had a huge impact on the mid terms (06), the economic malaise we're experiencing today can be linked to excessive military spending in iraq and failed international diplomacy.

if the economy continues to deteriorate, obama needs to emphasize the links and push for an expedited withdrawal. kerry (like clinton) voted for the authorization of force in iraq, obama doesn't carry this albatross - mccain will lose the debate on iraq (swiftboating, petraus reports and all).

about the clintons..................

there is nothing honorable or patriotic about intentionally subverting the intent of the constitution (no 3rd terms for presidents). bill cannot be president again, hillary in the white house is a ruse for a billary 3rd term.

concerning patriotism and hillarys comments......

from john dickersons blogg @ slate yesterday 4/19/8 ...
http://www.slate.com/id/2189485

{While the candidate was denouncing the distractions, his aides were promoting them. Three veterans of the Bosnia conflict joined for a conference call to explain just how crucial this particular distraction was, and why we should ignore Senator Obama's guidance and get obsessed with this issue.

Major General Walter Stewart explained that because Clinton had fabricated on the issue of sniper fire, Clinton would not be able to perform the traditional ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier who, he averred, was undoubtedly killed by sniper fire. "She will lack the moral authority to lay the wreath on Memorial Day," he said. She would also be unable to honor the veterans remembered on the Vietnam memorial because many of them had also been killed by sniper fire. Captain Aaron Clevenstine offered a variation on this theme: "As someone who trained snipers, I take offense to the notion that she was under sniper fire." Michael Kotyk, a retired veteran of the Navy broadened the significance of Clinton's yarn: "We've had 8 years of dishonor. We need honor. If you're going to tell stories then you're not displaying honor."}

...peace...

We have a great nation functioning at the level of 13 year olds. So---yes, Obama will get pounded on stupid inane stuff like little flags pinned to his coat, because that's what we obsess about. I thought I had left junior high back a looong time ago..nope.

"I am absolutely confident that during the general election that when I'm in a debate with John McCain, people are not going to be questioning my patriotism, they are going to be questioning how can you make people's lives a little better," declared Obama

I've heard so much negative commentary about "Obamania", you've heard it, "he's wimpy, he's got no experience, "hope?, you've got to be kidding". Yes, he has run a campaign that is positive vs. negative and yes, he may not be as savvy a politician as Hillary....but don't underestimate the man. Read again what he said. He is holding back, he is not attacking the other democrat. He is biding his time and will unload on the real opponent, John McCain. Can you imagine a debate between these two? Obama, who teaches Constitutional law against poor bumbling McCain! McCain who mixes up the Sunnis and the Shiites. A man who admits he doesn't understand economics as well as he should in a time when we are the epitome of "its the economy, stupid".

OH Spare me the politically correct smokescreen....

We all know that "Obama's lack of Patriotism" is NEW POLITICKSPEAK shorthand for "He is a damned nigger" and therefore unelectable as president in racist america.

BTW. the phrase "comedians like Dennis Miller" is an oxymoron...Millar stopped being the least bit humerous 10 years ago...his act is a stale as Dick Cheney's breath after a bourbon and face shooting party.

I just read on the news wire that Obama was suggesting that McCain would make a better President than Bush. My message to Obama is: You got to f'n kidding me!

This is only a problem because so many people conflate jingoism and patriotism. Are Erik Prince and Dick Cheney, who have ripped taxpayers off for billions of dollars and created enemies for us around the world patriots? Was Dr King, who courageously pointed out the inhumanity of the Vietnam war and sought to extend the democratic franchise to all Americans a patriot? Was Condoleezza Rice, who ignored numerous warnings and allowed 9/11 to happen a patriot?

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. The scoundrels are all pointing fingers at each other now.

Patriotism: I recall the Republican Congress wasting our taxdollar for one entire week discussing flagburning while Iraq was blowing up in violence.

Our soldiers wear a flag on their sleeves but they do not care if anybody has a flag lapel- they care about those who fight for body armor and veterans benefits. That is real patriotism and Obama has it in spades: The Republicans have not taken care of our soldiers.

Susan Eisenhower said that she is endorsing Obama because he is practical and focused and patriotic as her grandfather - President Eisenhower.

patriotism is support and defending ones country- that is the definition- not wearing jewelery.

Don't you think that Obama's proclamation that his patriotism is beyond question is, itself, spin.

Obama's patriotism has already been questioned. Remember when he was accused of silly things that don't matter anyways - such as being Muslim or swearing on the Koran rather than the bibile? I think the good reverend's slightly controversial statements have put those things to rest.

Wanna bet that, if someone asks Obama about his patriotism while facing McCain in verbal battle, that Obama will go to the obvious lies about his religion of origin? And if McCain makes insinuations, would not Obama contrast his own "untarnished" patriotism with that of his famous relative D--k Cheney!

If Obama is brave enough, he may even mention NAFTA contract thrust upon the American public by traitors, such as McCain's hero Ronnie Reagan - but I don't think he is quite that brave.

Either way, Obama will launch into his "American Dream" speech about how someone with a funny name born to a teenage mother can become President of the United States. But think of it, if his mother met his sperm doner of a father in college, she would have to have been 19 straddling 20 - not what one usually think of when one hears the term "teenage mother".

Patriotism, the way they present it during elections, is a superficial question which deserves a superficial answer.

What's strange is that Obama's youthful use of cocaine is a terrible negative, yet Bush's alcoholism until he was 40 and earlier cocaine use was turned into a positive. Behold the born-again Republican Christian white man who found his way, how strong he must be to have kicked his drug habits! But that nasty Obama using cocaine as a young man conjures up all sorts of images, now doesn't it. The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.

Imagine if Obama had a reputation as an angry vindictive man who often lost his temper. Conjures up all sorts of scary images of the angry black man, no? Dangerous to society, the alien "other". But I read so many posts of people who identify with McCain's anger, which is safe to do when the angry man is white. No problem there, he's on our side. You don't have to worry about retribution. Kinda think it's cool, he's a "real" man. Uhuh.

Obama is threading a path through all of the pitfalls that are particularly lethal for someone like him. Turns Ferraro's comment on its head. No one could have done what he's done so far, but him.

Obama's membership in the Council on Foreign Relations is why he's not a patriot, and why everything he and other CFR member-candidates promise are lies.
They have their own agenda regardless of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Geneva Convention. They are one of the greatest terrorist threats, along with the Bohemian Club, Rothschild Bank, and Skull and Bones, to our and ultimately all societies.

Speaking of those who should have their Patriotism questioned:

Business leaders to urge public support of NAFTA

Top business leaders from Canada, the United States and Mexico will urge their governments to publicize their support of NAFTA, in an effort to counter calls by the Democratic presidential candidates to review the deal. ...

Prime Minister Stephen Harper, U.S. President George Bush and Mexico's President Felipe Calderon are preparing to meet in New Orleans on Monday and Tuesday, for the annual trilateral summit.

Business leaders said they will release a report on the benefits of NAFTA to coincide with the meeting.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080419/nafta_summit_080419/20080419?hub=Politics

Also the video - as tell me then who is being unpatriotic!

Tobiasaurusrex - what do I need to know about the Council on Foreign Relations. You are presenting it as some sort of sick orgy.

Vaudree, CFR is trying to create a North American Union, to dissolve sovereign rights of the three NA nations. This has been crafted in secrecy, outside of any legal US protocol. and is occasionally denied, occasionally exposed. It will lead to more of what's happening in Iraq, and with multinational corporations: since there's no sovereign law, there's no accountability (KBR, Blackwater, etc.)

CFR promotes the Veri-Chip as a mandatory future law for all citizens; with all currency soon to be electronic, this will allow government to 'switch-off' citizens deemed undesirable, and has GPS capabilities. They can keep you from buying food and track you with these, does Orwell's term "unperson" ring a bell?

In general, the benign seeming and sounding CFR is an organization that wishes to create a single world government ruled by the likes of the WTO, Carlisle Group, Rockefeller Foundation, Rothschild Bank and other such private interests. They want a non-democratic world where citizens just slave, and not gum up the works of efficient fascism and global exploitation. George W. Bush's "executive privilege" style of leadership, with his thousands of unconstitutional and outright traitorous crimes is a taste of how they wish to operate (Dick Cheney is a former director of CFR).

The ministers of disinformation, the US mega-media moguls are members of the CFR, you know... the ones who cover the truth in government, as they expose gossip in Hollywood.

Simply put, the CFR is one particular New York club house of the Illuminati.

The edit never shows up until 15 minutes later - which does cause the odd argument every once in a while. Seriously, haven't heard of that organization.

And also seriously, have you heard anything in the news about the 3 Amigos and their discussion of the SPP (ie NAFTA on steroids)? Signing our countries over to big business has got to be one of the more traitorous acts possible.

How can one consider oneself a Patriot and still be trying to carry out the agenda of the SPP - or meeting in New Orleans today to try to.

And also think of it, if the Democrat race had been decided at this point, the winner of Obama and Clinton would be attending that meeting in New Orleans and telling us what was really going on in there!

BTW. the phrase "comedians like Dennis Miller" is an oxymoron
_______________________

Oh, I agree, canuckchuck. It was intentional sarcasm. ;)

What is Hillary Clinton's election plan?

While I have no illusions about Obama being a true progressive, I think it is reasonable to assume that:

1) Clinton knows that Obama's lead precludes her from winning the nomination in 2008. (She knows that the veto-delegates will not go against millions of young people who voted for him.)

2) Clinton wants to be president *very badly*

3) Clinton is willing to ruin Obama's candidacy with negative attacks, with an intent to make him lose the election, to position herself to challenge McCain in 2012

An article at www.counterpunch.org made this argument recently:

http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair03242008.html

See Michael Moore's letter of endorsing Obama:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Thanks! Truthmonger

Michael Moore: This sleazy attempt to smear Obama was brilliantly explained the following night by Stephen Colbert. He pointed out that if Obama is supported by Ted Kennedy, who is Catholic, and the Catholic Church is led by a Pope who was in the Hitler Youth, that can mean only one thing: OBAMA LOVES HITLER! Yes, Senator Clinton, that's how you sounded. Like you were nuts. Like you were a bigot stoking the fires of stupidity.

Like you were John McCain in a Hillary suit!

Why isn't Michael Moore talking about the SPP meeting in New Orleans?

It might be all over for Clinton tomorrow.

They just put the most recent episode of "Inside USA" on line (formerly called Frontline USA - alja has even changed the name on the earlier videos).

The episode is called "Rise of Hate" and what they are talking about is how the US media is taking Clinton's interpretation of Obama's comments as gospel, They all said that the winner in all of this is not Clinton or Obama but McCain:

Inside USA - Rise of hate - 19 April 08 - Part 2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oORz0T4SnM0

patriotism is dumb....brotherhood is smart

Clinton didn't beat H. W. Bush because of an economic turndown or the "no new taxes" comment, he beat him because Ross Perot won too many republican votes. Without Perot we would probably be into the 32nd year of republican rule.

I heard Obama characterize Hamas as a "terrorist" organization and took a swipe at Carter for talking to Hamas. Somebody should tell Obama that Hamas is a bona fide political party that was democratically elected. I love Michael Moore and he has a right to his choice, but I will not stand for Obama, McLoser or Shillary when they talk that rubbish. America continues to deceive itself and that includes these so-called progressives.

Vaudree,

Make no mistake, both of the Clintons, and McCain are members of the CFR as well. The only confirmed, untainted runners are Mike Gravel and Ron Paul.