"Florida's tomato growers abhor and condemn slavery," Well isn't that awfully decent of them! But do they abhor substandard wages and substandard living conditions for their workers? Apparently not. It is not just in Florida. Drive along the Eastern Shore of Virginia in late summer to see the same thing. We all need to get used to paying higher prices for food - prices that reflect the real cost of growing, harvesting and shipping it.

This is the price we pay for low cost food. The only way that retailer giants like Wal-Mart can keep food costs low is to force a slave type atmosphere somewhere in the food chain.

What seems strange is that while Wal Mart charges under $1.50 a Lb for tomatos, (in some cases under $1.00 a lb) during the winter months, other retailers are hiking the prices to over $3.00 a lb. for the same product in the same area.

As long as people continue to consume the produce that is produced in this way, and those in power look the other way, economic based slavery will continue

"You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store"

Sixteen Tons - Merle Travis 1947

Everything changes, everything remains the same.

This is the price we pay for astronomical executive pay - and the cost of Congressional bribery.

This article leaves me uncertain whether the allegations are true or false. To establish whether intolerable or illegal working conditions exist, allegations like this should be followed by investigation to discover the truth. What is unacceptable at this point is that individual companies in the Tomato Growers Exchange apparently have the option to refuse to cooperate with a government investigation. Worker abuse is a legal issue, like cooking Meth is a legal issue. It is an area where transparency should be mandatory, and if we don't get it we are authorized to kick the door down. This should apply to all private corporations who serve the public: insurance companies, oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, private prisons. I'm not allowed, as an individual, to swindle people or hold them captive. Companies should not have carte blanche to break the law.

No republicans attended? Gee, I'm shocked to hear that! They probably had the same deal goin' as in the Marianas. Nothing the republicans do surprises me!

This is the face of corporate insourcing of low-wage replacement workers. But it's not just agricultural workers. The same thing is happening in meat-packing, manufacturing, construction, landscaping, building maintenance and other industries.

Neo-slaves live in barracks-like conditions, often twenty to a house in cities and suburbs across the country. They are paid low wages and no benefits. Most don't pay income or FICA taxes. They get healthcare, housing assistance, food stamps and cash assistance courtesy of U.S. taxpayers, who unwillingly subsidize their scoff-law employers.

They often work two or more jobs and send as many U.S. dollars back to their home countries as they can, thus removing those dollars from the local economies where they live and work. It's a lose-lose situation for working-class and middle-class Americans, but it's great for corporate profits.

Yet, this is the situation that all three of the major candidates for president want to preserve. Both Obama and McCain were among a group of about ten Senators who actively pushed for last year's failed "comprehensive immigration reform" bill that would have legalized corporate insourcing of low-wage replacement workers and forgiven the penalties against employers of illegals provided by current law (the 1986 Immigration Act). Obama says it will be at the top of his agenda if elected president.

To be fair, Hillary also supported the 2007 bill, but at least she wants current laws to be enforced (which Obama and McCain say is impossible), including denying driver's licenses to illegals.

The economic argument for low-wage replacement workers -- that prices will rise if workers' wages rise -- is a partial truth that is completely misleading. First, most of the money sucked out of these industries through neo-slavery goes to corporate profits, not consumers. Second, higher wages paid (that stay in the U.S.) circulate in local economies between three and seven times (economists call this the "multiplying factor"), thus stimulating the economy and "rising all boats." It's trickle-up economics, the opposite of Reagan's trickle-down, "voodoo economics," and it works.

Ralph Nader is right on these issues. Hillary is at least partly right. Obama and McCain are pro-business free-traders.

I don't understand why with a supposed green movement, that agricultural slavery exists. It's odd to see people promote organic food yet say nothing about the slave conditions in which that food is harvested, for example. Who cares if it is organic if the harvester is exploited.

There was another story about this back in December:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/19/5907/

My favorite quote from the article is: "Burger King will not pay the extra penny a pound that the tomato-pickers are demanding he said. 'If we agreed to the penny per pound, Burger King would pay about $250,000 annually, or $100 per worker. How does that solve exploitation and poverty?' he asked."

Amazing, isn't it? You'd think for $250,000 a year, BK would just pony up the penny and avoid the negative press, but it's not about the money, it's about the control of workers. BK has made it clear that they will not be told how much to pay by a bunch of workers. They call the shots.

It's the privilege of the ruling class, you know.

Big Bad Bob wrote: "ctriz, are you sure it wasn't Tenn.Ernest Ford?"

Merle Travis wrote it. Tennessee Ernie Ford made it famous.

http://www.ernieford.com/SixteenTons.htm

Lets look at the big picture: The energy in a single gallon of gasoline is roughly equivalent to the work output of a human being (about a quarter of a horsepower) for a month, and an American working at a minimum-wage job can buy a gallon of gas for about 20 minutes' worth of labor. J. Leinhard of the University of Houston estimates that the average combined energy used by each American (for transportation, tool use, communications, climate control, lighting, entertainment, conveniences, etc.) is the equivalent of having over 150 human slaves 24 hours a day. The energy we've used to create our civilization has been incredibly cheap, and we assume it will be so tomorrow.

The ride-on lawn mower and the power leaf blower reflect a culture not only heedless of the physical limitations of its energy sources but also oblivious to the true source of its own advancement. A mere blink of history's eye has produced in our country an unprecedented un-consciousness of the laws of nature and the inescapable requirement of abiding by them.

With diminishing oil reserves, Americans have a choice: We either change our nouveaux-culture that has been fueled by gasoline, or we retain slavery. Whats it going to be?

This is an ongoing problem. It was exposed dramatically by Patrick Smith in his novel "Angel City" (1978) which was also made into a movie. From his website:
Angel City follows the course of the Teeters, a West Virginia family come to Florida to better their lives. What they find is degradation in a migrant labor camp. Though it is repellant to believe, Smith's depiction of conditions in Florida migrant labor camps as late as the seventies was based on fact. His expose of those camps in Angel City served its intended purpose: to bring about change. As interest increases in the novels of Patrick Smith, literary historians are sure to place this near the top rank of his output. Angel City was made into a movie and aired on CBS.

The Pope just called for the US "to base their political and social decisions on moral principles and create a more just society." http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080416/us_nm/pope_usa_dc

To do that, we'll have to outlaw capitalism, which is about exploitation of the weaker by the stronger and thus immoral.

"Burger King will not pay the extra penny a pound that the tomato-pickers are demanding he said. 'If we agreed to the penny per pound, Burger King would pay about $250,000 annually, or $100 per worker. How does that solve exploitation and poverty?' he asked."

Then pay an extra 20 cents a pound, and give each worker an extra $2000 a pound.

But quite seriously, one doesn't get better wages by begging, hat in hand, to the bosses - which is largely what this Immokalee worlers movement consists of. Better wages come from using the strike weapon, the boycott weapon, and effective discoraging of scabs, to bargain collectively from a position of strength. Either they pay a better wage of they go out of business.

This is just the tip of a very large iceberg. The USA is a third-world nation with a large wealthy and white population.

"Workers, told the panel that tomato pickers regularly are abused, harassed, intimidated and kept so deeply in debt that they are virtually in bondage"

This is similar to arbitrary and useless marijuana laws that send MILLIONS of people to jail, which is also a form of "abuse" and "intimidation". And, the financial repercussion against the "offender" CERTAINLY keeps people in debt in that they are LITERALLY in bondage.

What we need to do is unite as a people and demand not only justice and fairness for migrant workers, but we need to demand this for EVERYBODY!!!

Anybody who works "for" someone is a slave. Instead of working for each other, we really should be trying to work "with" each other.

Friends,
As a long time ally of the Coalition of Immokalee Workers (CIW) I thought I would try to clarify some things from previous comments. CIW has not gone hat in hand to ask for these things from Fast Food Giants. No. They have taken them to the mat with a four year boycott of Taco Bell that led to victory in 2005, a 2 year pressure campaign on McDonalds that led to victory in 2006, and now the Campaign for Fair Food directed at Burger King and the Florida Tomato Growers Association who have taken solace from Burger King's intransigence. These victories have been won by mass mobilization, student groups kicking 20 Taco Bell stores off campuses, mainstream religious denominations weighing in with their members and with shareholders, massive marches and other actions to stain the pretty logos of these corporations. We did a hunger strike for 10 days in front of Taco Bell headquarters in irvine, California, with 75 people going 10 days on water to prove their willingness to sacrifice to make these gains, and these actions have brought about the circumstances whereby the US Senate would even think of holding such a hearing.

You can read much of this history on the CIW website: www.ciw-online.org
Slavery is a reality. Seven cases of slavery have been prosecuted in the State of Florida in recent years, some of them with the direct help of CIW finding witnesses and infiltrating slave labor camps. Sub poverty wages are the norm in this industry and the often undocumented status of many of the workers from Mexico, Guatemala and Haiti is part of the power equation. Corporate America thrives on this exploitation, hence the slowness in bringing reforms to protect workers and legalize them.

I hope this helps clarify some points. Join the current campaign to pressure Burger King. Get involved and go beyond arm chair analysis! CIW would be happy to have new allies. But remember that the farmworkers themselves take the lead in this campaign. They call the shots.

Edward1793: What seems strange is that while Wal Mart charges under $1.50 a Lb for tomatos, (in some cases under $1.00 a lb) during the winter months, other retailers are hiking the prices to over $3.00 a lb. for the same product in the same area.

Among the many elements of the progressive strategy is the idea of general enlightenment for the people, so the government will publish simple outlines of the costs in a "best practice template" for food production and people can discover with a few minutes of research what the retail, wholesale and production cuts should be. In Edward's example, Walmart is keeping probably 50 cents per pound while its rivals are keeping 2.50 dollars, some of which pays union wages and benefits. The rest of the difference amounts to different dumping strategies (Walmart dumping tomatoes, rivals dumping something else), but in both cases, the retailers are preying on their customers, hiding from them what is going on to prevent them from "voting progressive" in their economic exchange. The answer is of course, grow your own or buy from your neighbor.

Good points Bob K. Many of those who support illegal immigration do not they realize that they are really supporting trickle up economics, claiming that the 'illegals' do jobs Americans simply not do--of course this is true for the wages they pay.

"claiming that the 'illegals' do jobs Americans simply not do–of course this is true for the wages they pay"

it would be illegal for these companies to pay the low wages to us citizens because of minimum wage laws.

however, these laws don't apply, at least in theory, to illegals because they aren't "citizens".

it's not that they are doing jobs that us citizens won't do, they are doing jobs that us citizens CAN'T do.

Thanks chessgame56,

But, I think you may have missed my point about trickle-up economics. Wages paid "trickle up" through the local economy, circulating between three and seven times. The more wages paid, the more the trickle-up effect, which is a good thing.

The massive influx of low-wage replacement workers has lowered wages across the board, thus reducing the amount of money that trickles up and the economic stimulus that results. Dollars sent out of the country also take away from the trickle-up stimulus. Every dollar of wages spent in the local economy circulates between three and seven times. Every dollar sent out of the country doesn't circulate in the local economy at all.

I have an acquaintance who uses an almost entirely hispanic construction crew ... he pays everyone on the crew the same, he carries workers compensation (or so he says) and does payroll deductions, etc.

He has to pay his crew well... there's competition and he both wants and needs to keep his crew ... good workers are worth a great deal and, as with any employment, there are learning curves even for experienced help. This is primarily remodeling cabinetry work.

He's pretty much given up hiring the definitely-legal friends and kids of friends in favor his crew because the former tend to not show up, particularly on the Monday after payday and they bitch and back-talk too much ... oh, and they need to be supervised all the time and have "problems with authority" problems.

Most of his anglo workers are just working paycheck to paycheck "until something better" comes along ... and when something, anything comes along .. pfft, they're gone without notice.

I heard much the same wrt post-Katrina workers native versus hispanic workforce ...

IOW, it's not always about "cheaper" ...

Workers who are in the country illegally and work for less than minimum wage and accept substandard living conditions put downward pressure on wages and benefits for every other worker also. Not monitoring and enforcing immigration processes works in the favor of unethical employers, sometimes other members of the same immigrant group, not in favor of those workers or others who labor in the same field. It really should not be a big problem for these workers to enter legally to work, they are doing stuff nobody else who is already in the country wants to do anyway. And then they should be paid a fair wage and have the same access to benefits and the right to belong to unions. That kind of solidarity would help everybody. Of course the prices for many many kinds of services would go up, but it's time people stopped living in a fool's paradise anyway.

My daughter wanted to hire a Phillipine in-home caregiver. She contacted an agency but became suspicious when she saw just how expensive a car the agent drove to her home. She researched and found out that many of the women who do want to do this kind of work end up giving these agents very large commissions because they are intimidated by the paperwork that has to be done. The fact that these temp employment women are vulnerable to agents and employers who sometimes treat them very badly puts downward pressure on all daycare and childcare workers, even the ones like my nephew who truly love the work and have early childcare educational credentials.

It's not possible to mistreat and exploit one group without also penalizing everyone else connected with the process. Even if it is just feeding an illusion that tomatoes are only worth 50 cents a pound.

Interesting anecdote, Susan. It might not be a good idea to employ 'friends' and family in general because of those reasons. From what I gather by reading and listening is that the 'American worker' is getting negatively stereotyped.

He or she is lazy, has problems with authority, a bad attitude, etc. Again, it is our own fault that we cannot find work. That's MSM's line as well. For example, Bill Gates claims he must import workers from India because there are not enough similarly skilled IT workers here.

Sorry, I just do not buy it. I remember during Bill Clinton's reign when American worker productivity was the cat's meow.

So what the heck happened in 8 years?

Actually, my friend told me of his crew back around 1995 ... when I last saw him.

But I gather more recently, before the housing market went to hell, tighter immigration enforcement and understandable paranoia had created a terrible labor shortage in new home construction, particularly roofing where crews in my state were primarily hispanic.

As with my friend, it wasn't a matter of hiring "illegals" or subjecting them to bad working conditions. It was hard work and most hiring was done by a worker recommending a friend (so it's still friend-of-friend)

I know that more than 20 years ago both my brothers worked for this man ... and, we've joke about it since, my older brother tried to tell him how to run his business and his crew and my younger brother showed up late, didn't show up at all... etc.

The problem of not being willing to just "take orders" and shutting up and doing the work comes up a lot ... I don't think this is mythical. I don't think it's laziness ... I think it's often an anglo problem with status ...

Snow crab states another myth that is without proper logic:

"they are doing stuff nobody else who is already in the country wants to do anyway."

if this is true, then who did these jobs BEFORE immigrants took them over for substandard wages and benefits? that's right, the american did it. during the dustbowl, who was primarily out of work??? that's right, the american was.

Snow crap, you're basically saying that americans are lazy, which is untrue. i believe what you mean to say is that "americans have higher standards when it comes to employment and the MSM and corporations will do ANYTHING to lower those standards."

The British newspaper The Independent described the situation in Immokalee as slavery and human rights abuse, based on evidence found by their reporter, including workers shackled and chained into their trailers at night. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/slave-labour-that-shames-america-765881.html This report of slave conditions was subsequently confirmed by U.S. Attorney Doug Molloy and Vermont's Senator Bernie Sanders.
One of the reasons that the growers play innocent of these charges is that they contract out to firms to hire the pickers. That way they're not accountable for the terrible conditions under which the workers live and work.
I have read (but I can't remember the source) that the Florida Tomato Growers Exchange has threatened its member growers if they were to agree to the penny per pound increase the workers have asked for. That doesn't seem to have come out in the Committee hearings.
Meanwhile, in the easier to handle category of facts--it was indeed Tennessee Ernie Ford who made 16 Tons famous. As soon as I see the words printed, I hear his voice in my head.
Finally, I want to reiterate what others have said or suggested earlier--food being sold cheaply means that pickers got very little for their work. Please think long and hard whether you need to buy that particular item in that particular store.

yes, what's horrible is that I remember this story from at least 5 years ago ... 60 Minutes did a segment of these concentration camps with barracks and the company store ... workers were hopelessly in SERIOUS debt (for transportation costs) before they even arrived ... and the prices for everything at the company store and their "lodging" were seriously jacked up ... and -- irrc -- they had no free access to phones or mailboxes, they were held prisoner, literally, incommunicado ...

I seem to recall guards with guns and dogs ... truly banana republic third world stuff .... in the Florida sun, under the American flag ...

=========================================================
Schlosser next book, titled "Reefer Madness" on the American underground economy imho is well worth reading ... I recall "illegal labor" is one third of the book and the section on modern day sharecropping in California, strawberry fields irrc, is horrifying in a similar but different way.
Highly recommended ... the drug trade and pornography, irrc, are the two other main areas of underground economy ... the illegal underground gun trade I think I read about elsewhere.

We are living in an epoch of change brought about by the introduction of digital electronic technology into production. The difference between the economic reality of this period of time and previous times is that every advance of technology into production now is labor-replacing rather than labor enhancing. The introduction of electronics into production replaces human labor. When production can increase without an increase in labor, the value of labor power – and the value of life – begin to fall toward zero. Employed workers globally are competing with a "robot" that is not paid wages. Thus, capital is able to drive workers in production like slaves, with extended hours, intense exploitation, and starvation wages.

I didn't want to give the impression that American's are lazy. That is simply not true. There are issues around status however. They do have high expectations from their investment in training and education and a history of being able to negotiate a fair living wage for their work because of this. Stoop labor has never been a high status occupation but there is no reason why it cannot pay a decent wage and those people also deserve to have ways to negotiate.

Just recently I was reading in a travel blog that it's not necessary to tip in some northern European restaurants because all jobs are unionized, the waitress makes a good salary and doesn't require gratuities to make ends meet. Restaurant meals are quite expensive so people don't eat out as often, only for special occasions.

Maybe better wages would raise the status of hand cultivating and perhaps more Americans would want to do it then, but as it stands now the people who do it are irreplaceable and therefor valuable.

So food would cost more. Time for people to start dealing with that reality. I hand cultivated a quarter acre garden for ten years. I know how much time and sweat it takes to wrest a winters vegetables out of the dirt. It was always pretty depressing to see the prices of store bought vegetables and realize my time out with the black flies was only worth pennies per hour, but since I had no access to the cash economy at that point in my life, I was just as glad to have the food at any cost.

"but as it stands now the people who do it are irreplaceable and therefor(e) valuable. "

yes, i agree that they are valuable, but the system that keeps them in servitute, debt, prison, shackles, and essentially hidden is worthless to the nth degree. and the only value they have is to the corporations that keep them there.

but i feel i must reiterate one thing. the jobs that immigrants are doing are NOT jobs Americans don't want, or can't handle. they are simply jobs that cater to immigrants and migrants, especially the illiterate and illegal variety.

i think every citizen of america deserves a fair wage for their labors. and IF we pay these immigrant and migrant workers a fair wage, then prices will go up AND the remittences they sand back will increase as well, thus doing more harm than good.

however, this wouldn't be the case if you ADD BACK to the communites the monies these people are sending back as remittances.

and THAT is where the problem lies. americans doing american work in america profits america. how many american farm laborors do you think would send their checks to Bolivia, Honduras, Guatemala, etc every month????

the only one's who DON'T PAY in this situation is the corporation. stop defending it.

Snow crab and susanparker,

Actually, the US is probably the last "developed" country in the world where restaurant workers are still tipped. Most people around the world regard tipping as menial and undignified and European workers won't have any of it.

European workers probably have "problems with authority" too.

And, as far as a workers that have "problems with authority", I think the bigger problem is bosses who have problems understanding that that they don't own the worker and the boss certainly not their master. All workplaces should equitably share empowering and non empowering tasks.

"Tomato, I'm picking tomato, one by one, ton by ton in the blazing sun. Your fingers get sticky and your back gets sore and I'm not gonna pick no tomato no more, cause I picked Salinas, picked San Jose, I picked tomatoes 12 hours a day and I made a little money, but I don't know, I think I'll get back to Mexico, I got the get back, get back, get back wet back blues. ♦ Well, I'm picking, south of L.A., damned pickpocket runs off with my pay, like to tell that son of a bitch, 'Pity the poor, and rob the rich.' I got the get back, get back, get back wetback blues." – Dusty Blood.

The problem with capitalism is that there will always be someone at the bottom. It's a pyramid structure, like the image on the back of the U.S. dollar. Essentially, from a wholistic viewpoint, profits perculate upward through slavery in capitalist systems. In the United States, expressing such ideas is off the table and out of public consciousness, generally speaking. However, here you have evidence of it. The Immocole tomato pickers have been enduring slavery over many years.

That it has taken so long to have a hearing! And no Republicans in the room! In the Republican reptilian mindset, there's nothing wrong with the discipline of the marketplace, even if it means slavery, abuse and immiseration. The Democrats aren't too far behind this mindset these days.

The "invisible hand" of the marketplace is an iron fist. Do what you're told. Dire poverty (and jail) awaits those who don't comply.

Folks writing here about getting tough on immigration need to rethink it in human terms. The first priority should human rights and fair working conditions in this country. The fact is that most Americans will not work for subminimum wages picking crops. No, you must ensure fair treatment of even illegal immigrants, with fair wages. Most migrant workers here are sending money back home anyway. Mexican farming has been devastated by cheap U.S. agricultural imports, made possible by NAFTA (signed into law by "Democrat" Prez Bill Clinton).

Cool your jets, anti-immigrant people. Realize you are talking about human beings. Your progressive actions start there. Resist the Republican reptilian mindset.

Good points, hellodarling.

The introduction of electronics into production replaces human labor. When "production can increase without an increase in labor, the value of labor power...

--That may be true, but for job loss in the US within the last 10 years (pulling a figure out of the hat), it has been more due to the movement of capital in a race to the bottom for cheap labor, meaning those jobs have not been replaced by robots so much as moved offshore for a fraction of their former wages.

"Cool your jets, anti-immigrant people. Realize you are talking about human beings. Your progressive actions start there."

--I am married to an immigrant, so I am far from being anti-immigrant. Being in my position, I know firsthand the hoops one must jump through to get naturalized. This is also why 'amnesty' would cause an uproar. It would cause an uproar because is discriminatory.

Many do not realize that citizenship or residency in not merely 'given' to legal immigrants. They must fill out complex paperwork and pay high application fees. For that reason, if you ask around, you might find legal immigrants are the ones most strongly opposed to illegal immigration.

hellodarling writes:

"..the only one's who DON'T PAY in this situation is the corporation. stop defending it."

I've brought that up many times here at CD, hd, but no one else has commented on it. I was beginning to wonder if those who say they are pro-immigration are willing to turn a blind eye to those business who are raking in the dough off cheap immigrant labor.

Here is my proposal. If businesses are caught using cheap labor "under the table," give them a choice: face jail time and/or heavy fines, or sponsor their worker(s) for legal status, meaning they are responsible for making sure they have a place to live, medical care, no less than minimum wage, etc.

Additionally, they must pay all fees and fill out all the paperwork required to naturalize their immigrant workers. If this policy was really enforced, how much you want to bet that illegal immigration would drop dramatically? That way, business could not reap the benefits without paying their dues.

Thoughts Into Action writes:

"Realize you are talking about human beings."

Yes, and all that goes along with being human. This means that once they gain a strong enough foothold to start making demands for better work standards, pay, etc., they will. If you've observed, they are much more cohesive as a group and less divided than we are, perhaps because they feel a kind of brotherhood in their 'slave' status.

Also, I do not believe they are as weakened or demoralized as we are; they are not afraid to take to the streets. People generally behave that way when they feel they have little to lose. A jackal is much more dangerous than a sheep in that regard.

We must be able to understand the immigration problem in all its aspects, and not just cherry pick the positions that are politically correct. If you say you support the status quo, then you are also supporting the exploitation that goes along with it, and turning a blind eye toward those responsible.

Snow crap, you're basically saying that americans are lazy, which is untrue.

I did not think one accidental slip of a finger could make me laugh so hard. :D

Two small points:

My friend never set out to hire a hispanic crew ... it evolved. His hispanic workers stayed, referred their friends who also "worked out" and they stayed ... He did not set out to hire "illegals" and, at least on paper, he had not -- he had filled out the appropriate papers and collected appropritae documentation. He was paying competitive to better than average wages. Part of why this came up in our conversation was that he was complaining that most of his crew spoke NO English which he found frustrating ... and raised the possibility that some of his workers very very new to the area.

As for employers needing to "understand" that they don't own their employees ... in this man's case, his business (custom interior remodel cabinetry work) requires getting the work done to the customer's satisfaction and ON TIME. Employees who show up and put in a full days' work with little muss or fuss are worth their weight in gold ... Contractors are notorious for never quite getting the job FINISHED. It's about priorities: The employer, the employee, the customer.

I can attest, having been a low level "lead employee" vaguely organizing, training and supervising 5-7 employees over a 3 year period, there are a thousand stories in the naked city, but I was continually surprised by the expectations and "assumptions" (not to mention the unmitigated selfishness and gall) of some people in what they claimed were "reasonable" accommodations they expected to be made to their "needs" at their whim ... Grownup, cooperative behavior is also highly valued. Again, we all have our priorities.

hellodarling, I suggest you read the "The Grapes of Wrath," by John Stienbeck.

You're right susanparker, how dare those 'uppity' employees demand safe work conditions, a living wage, cost of living increases, etc? The unmitigated gall of it all!

In fairness to your point, there are some unreasonable employees, but we should not generalize in that regard. Menial jobs are bad enough even when pay and conditions are satisfactory, but pure hell when they are not.

Without labor unions with clout, though, workers are sitting ducks, and ever since Ray-gun, they've been on the decline. Since Europe seems to have it mostly right, why can we not follow suit with better standards?

I think it's primarily because we've been propagandized against our better interests.

Grapes of Wrath is a work of fiction, but it is a good read just the same. And many years later, farm work is still exploitive in lots of ways. I've always felt that farmers are not given enough for their toil, when compared to the selling price of the finished products.

Susanparker, since you are beating your example to death, do you believe that hiring illegal workers--which is against the law--is justified? If not, what do you propose?

My point in my friend's case is that there is competition for all skilled labor ... that he had complied (or so he said) with getting copies of these workers' documents, yet, it was quite likely that some used bogus documents -- it was not his job nor did he care ... he had complied with his obligations as a small business owner hiring members of an hourly wage crew (which are different obligations that those of big business who hire many more people -- the rule vary by size of payroll and, to some extent, type of business, government contracts/subsidies, etc.)

I was responding to people who assumed that negative stereotypes about anglo workers were at work here ... no, his work force evolved into an all hispanic force, in the manner that his crew usually evolved, one worker recommending a friend... and he was very happy with his crew, except that only a few spoke any English.

This is not relevant to the article here ... nor does it have anything to do with union organizing or crappy working conditions. My point was to illustrate that "illegals" are not always "over represented" in some jobs (like roofing which I gather is very well paying as well -- $20/hour) ... BECAUSE they're cheaper OR BECAUSE they're compliant with crappy work conditions (like the food processing workers who, working for major agricultural giants are often, I gather, under threat of INS raids ... which hurt their employer much less than it hurts them). They may evolve into being "overrepresented" by showing up and doing the work.

That's all. I have no gripe with anyone working to support their family.

There are hundreds, thousands, possibly millions of American citizen, individuals, who knowingly hire illegal workers to do their lawns, clean their homes, watch their kids ... I don't actually care much -- Cost/benefit wise, I'm not sure this is worth pursuing ... to my mind that is different world than these forced labor camps or Wal-Mart's subcontractor busing illegal workers into the country to work for cheap in terrible conditions or food processing plants that hire hundreds and should have proper vetting procedures in place (and whose use of aliens is deliberately anti-union)

California's harvests have been picked by Mexican migrant labor for probably 100 years ... the difference now -- which seems to offend people -- is that those workers' children have moved on to holding jobs that some people think "belong" to anglos ...

Lou Dobbs and Fox Noise can find an occasional "anglo" who was "discriminated" against ... compared to the other issues at stake -- like crappy working conditions, involuntary servitude, the preditory habits of coyotes -- frankly, I really don't care.

After Katrina the story I heard most often was that local workers simply stopped showing up after a few days (of nasty, horrible, disgusting work) ... this may or may not have been true... Yes, I do think preference should be shown locals in hiring ... but after that ... the work goes to those who show up and stay ... and yes, all sorts of help and job opportunities should be offered the locals ... not just heavy manual labor (which this was) ...

I've read the Grapes of Wrath ... I was in Los Angeles during the UFW's birth and supported them ... I think there are some apples and oranges being mixed up here.

I will try again. My last post has not remained on this site.

The "Grapes of Wrath" is a work of fiction. The "Iron Heel" by Jack London is also a work of fiction. Upton Sinclair's, "The Jungle" is also a work of fiction.

These days it is difficult to know fact from fiction.

I forgot to add that George Orwell called "Animal Farm" a "fairy tale"
This shows how aware he was of people declaring that fiction was no more than that - fiction. Or a fairy tale.

look, it's really really hard to prove someone is or is not "legal" ... forged documents are rampant... but there are "good faith efforts" that are expected of employers ... in some cases, these are given lip service to ...

I guess I thought my friend's case was relevant to the issue "jobs an anglo might want" ... a skilled job, a good paying job, safe, clean, good working conditions, like those roofing jobs ...

If the INS and the employers did their jobs wrt food packing and agricultural workers, yes, it would have an impact ... wages might rise, food prices would definitely rise (to cover administrative and legals expense first, naturally) ... it's entirely possible that even with better wages, there would be shortage of workers because the work sucks ... prices would rise to cover the cost of "improvements" ... and in the meantime, I suspect the guest worker/work visa program would be massively expanded ...

It's gonna take a while ...increased INS enforcement is a crude instrument to use to try to improve working conditions and wages, y'know?

IMHO, in contrast, the efforts mentioned in the article deserve wide spread support

There are some good clues that a worker is or may be illegal. One is that he or she does not speak or understand English. And, of course it's not all the employers fault. As far as forged documents go, and possibly identity theft, these people should do jail time. I'm sorry, but they know full well that they are breaking the law(s) of this country.

Now, as far as Lou Dobbs goes, I do not agree with many of his positions, but greatly respect him for being true to what he really thinks. He perhaps has done more than any other of his ilk to open an honest dialog, and is not just some smooth talking mouthpiece for slimy corporate interests. This, at least, shows integrity and honesty.

I think he has it right on outsourcing. But he also talks as if the 'middle class' is the only one that matters, and often ignores the plight of the working class, which includes low-payed immigrants.

The average man and woman in this country is being and has been sold down the river for a pittance under the Bush Administration. Our tax money is being spent for our self-destruction (i.e., to help corporations move offshore, and recently to bail out the corrupt investment industry). I predict that soon many more will feel the economic punch of this, where the effects will be too obvious to deny.

What we do in the face of this will determine whether we sink or swim.

Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" was credited by some for helping bring labor unions and anti-trust laws into being. Also, a great book.

A few points left out by those who would justify corporate insourcing of low-wage replacement workers (neo-slavery):

Illegal migrant workers are not paid $20/hour. More like $7-$10/hr (with no benefits), depending on the number of illegal workers available. Much less for agricultural workers like those in this story. These are indeed slave wages.

Such wages are "competitive" only because U.S. dollars are worth eight times as much in Mexico and Central America as they are here, because in most cases no income and FICA taxes are withheld, because healthcare, housing, food stamps and other assistance are provided by U.S. taxpayers, and because migrants are willing to live in barracks-like conditions until they return to their home countries. Law abiding U.S. citizens, whose permanent home is the U.S., can not feed their families on such wages. Furthermore, government assistance is often available to "immigrants" on a priority basis, and is not available to settled citizens.

Businesses which knowingly employ illegal migrant workers are scoff-laws committing federal crimes. The only reason they are not prosecuted is that the Bush regime chooses not to prosecute.

Businesses which knowingly accept false or stolen U.S. documents from illegal migrant workers are complicit in another federal crime: identity theft.

Businesses employing illegal migrants gain an unfair competitive advantage over law-abiding businesses, often forcing them to choose between also hiring neo-slaves or going out of business.

Businesses employing illegal migrants are knowingly forcing U.S. taxpayers to subsidize their labor costs.

Businesses employing illegal migrants are harming their local economies (and the U.S. economy), because dollars sent out of the country by their employees are not spent in their communities, do not circulate and multiply, and do not have any stimulating effect -- they have the opposite effect.

In industry after industry, we have examples where the work was originally done by U.S. citizen/residents who were then replaced by low-wage replacement illegal migrants, and then following legal or regulatory actions was again done by U.S. citizens -- with little effect on prices and a stimulating effect on local economies.

It is not "compassionate" to take the bread from the mouths of one man's family to give to another's.

It is not "compassionate" to take the bread from the mouths of one man's family to give to another's.

--No, it is not, Bob. Excellent insights. You helped me better understand what I've been feeling intuitively. Being married to an immigrant, I can attest that they feel compelled to send money back to their homeland. In the case of the neo-slaves, this sometimes amounts to kind of double slavery. They feel compelled to provide support for their brothers, sisters, and even cousins, often sacrificing for their immediate families.

I recall one of my co-workers relaying a story to me not so long ago. He said that a Mexican once told him when he asked, don't you feel like a slave?

"Slave?" He laughed and told him that he can save enough just working here for the summer to go back to Mexico and live all year like a king, relaxing at the beach. He happened to be single and said he did not have to worry about insurance and high taxes like we do, and that things like electricity only cost a fraction of what they cost here.

Businesses employing illegal migrants are knowingly forcing U.S. taxpayers to subsidize their labor costs.

And that, I believe, cannot continue indefinitely.

I think this article would be better served if the title were:

"The System Enslaves."

Well, we all know that police officers are just a bunch of bleeding heart liberals anyway.

Seriously, hats off to Collier County Sheriff's Detective Charlie Frost. He seems to believe in duty and public service.

Though not really surprising, this is telling: "No Republicans attended the hearing". That is a pretty blatant disregard for their duties to the public (citizenry). Probably thought that no one would notice.

Reggie Brown of the Tomato Growers Association would appear to be well named. You figure out why but does he dare look in the mirror each morning after spouting such bullshit.
(Incidentally, that red crap and call tomatoes that they ship from Florida taste like rubbish. Yes, yes, I know - so they can stand shipping and have a long shelf life.)
Did you say a penny - one lousy cent - a pound is refused by the sweethearts at Burger King? Aren't these the guys with that real creepy king logo?