Good to see a rational article on this issue.

I would like to add one comment about the religious freedom in Tibet. As you guys probably know already, before 1959, Dalai Lama was the religious leader in Tibet and at the same time he ruled Tibet. So the system was very similar to the middle aged Europe or Iran after 1979.
Are you guys expecting any freedom for any religion other than Tibetan Buddism within that kind of system? Monks should stay in temple reading classic budsim books instead of running government.

BTW, the Tibetan population has grown from 2 million to 6 million in China from 1950 to 2008 so if 1.2 Million were killed by communist in 1959, how did that happen?

Folks, you should really check this out:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=twHzXN3kNTs

We surely don't want to become this ... Is it a show or game ? What's the point ?

One of the hottest video on Youtube recently for folks not informed on Tibet:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

And please do your homework before crying out for "human rights" in Tibet. Here is some rare description of human rights in Tibet written by native Tibetans in English:

http://pbase.com/pwwp/scanned

For a more scholarly reading:
www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

Found a comment posted in another blog talking about the tibet and china issue. It was obviously written by a chinese, but sounds quite interesting to me. Seems that chinese are really upset with the western media. And I agree if it were not china, the media might have been much nicer....

===
When We were called Sick man of Asia, We were called The Peril.
When We are billed to be the next Superpower, We are called The threat.

When We were closed our doors, You smuggled Drugs to Open Markets.
When We Embrace Freed Trade, You blame us for Taking away your jobs.

When We were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your "fair share".
When We were putting the broken pieces together again, "Free Tibet" you screamed, "it was an invasion!"

( When Woodrow Wilson Couldn't give back Birth Place of Confucius back to Us, But He did bought a ticket for the Famine Relief Ball for us.)

So, We Tried Communism, You hated us for being Communists
When We embrace Capitalism, You hate us for being Capitalist.

When We have a Billion People, you said we were destroying the planet.
When We are tried limited our numbers, you said It was human rights abuse.

When We were Poor, You think we are dogs.
When We Loan you cash, You blame us for your debts.

When We build our industries, You called us Polluters.
When we sell you goods, You blame us for global warming.

When We buy oil, You called that exploitation and Genocide.
When You fight for oil, You called that Liberation.

When We were lost in Chaos and rampage, You wanted Rules of Law for us.
When We uphold law and order against Violence, You called that Violating Human Rights.

When We were silent, You said you want us to have Free Speech.
When We were silent no more, You say we were Brainwashed-Xenophoics.

Why do you hate us so much? We asked.
"No," You Answered, "We don't hate You."

We don't Hate You either,
But Do you understand us?

"Of course We do," You said,
"We have AFP, CNN and BBCs…"

What do you really want from us?
Think Hard first, then Answer…

Because you only get so many chances,
Enough is Enough, Enough Hypocrisy for this one world.

We want One World, One Dream, And Peace On Earth.
- This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of Us.

I think I must share you all with a video clip about tibet problem, this clip is popular in chinese website now.

clip link :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZbp28696Q

Thanks Rudmin for the nice essay. In fact, I would say that this essay shows us why US is a great country!

Let me start by saying that I'm a chinese. I lived in China for 23 years, and lived in the US for 14 years.

First, I'd like to ease the biggest concern from Rudmin--hatred between Han ethnics and Tibetans will lead to bigger conflicts. On the contrary, I would not predict intensified crack down on the tibetans even if the situation goes worse. Two reasons behind it. First of all, the very same thoughts of Mr. Rudmin is not uncommon among chinese commnunity. Many chinese aboard and wthin China at my age (I attended the Tiananmen Square movement in 1989 myself as college student) do hold unbiased views on this issue. Second, despite of many internal problems (ugly ones) within our government, it did and still does promote mutual understanding and equal social status among all the ethnics. (To correct you guys with the concept of Han ethnic. Unlike the real Han people 2000 years back, the current Han people is a real mixture of many different ethnics that mingled during the last 2000 years mainly due to constant wars, invasion among different ethnic groups. This is why we know provoking hatred among different ethnics will only get things worse. History told us this).

Secondly, let me make a statement here without too much explaination, see if anyone has anything to say about it. To me, if not to many chinese, I would have absolutely no objections to tibet independence if US and NATO retract all of their troops from all over the world, and all the powerhouse countries including China itself all destroy their nuclear weapons. In other words, if the world is a peaceful world, we would not care if tibetans want independence or not. However, in this real world, it matters big time. Same idea applies to our communist government. It is not that we do not recognize all problems our government has, but the whole western world leave us no choice but to side with our government. This is determined by human nature--competing for resources. That is reality, unfortunate but inevitable.

Many foreigners find China "enchanting":

"My reminiscence: For such a lovely river, its name was mystifying—'Cape Fear'—and that the only thing to FEAR on those enchanted Summer nights was that the magic would end…and REALITY would come crashing in…."

REALITY = Chinese nationalism/violent, bloody history.

Scene from the movie "Cape Fear".

Nick Nolte plays the protagonist, Samual Bowden.

De Niro plays ex-con, Nietzche's Superman, Max Cady.

Cady: "You think that you're better than me? You think that you're better than me?"

Bowden: "No…I don't think that I'm better than you."

Cady: "That's good…. Because if you're not better than me, then that means that I can have what you have."

Here, Bowden = the U.S.
Cady = China.

First of all, I read the original piece of writing earlier today, and have been spending the past while reading this discussion.

I'm an ethnic Chinese (Han) who was born and raised in Toronto, Canad - first and foremost, I think of myself as a Canadian.

Even before I read any of this, I'm reading/watching the news, and my first reaction was - what about Canada? What about everywhere else? Before we get into this "China sucks, boycott China" or "China has terrible human rights ethics" mindset, we should, as Mr. Rudmin said, look closer to home. Now, anything related to this torch/olympics fiasco triggers a "Wouldn't it be funny if Quebec started lobbying for separatism like this again?" If I remember correctly from my grade seven history courses, Trudeau invoked the War Measures Act during the October Crisis when radical separatists launched terrorist attacks.

I know this may be a milder example, but what I'm saying is that it's not right to criticise what you may know nothing about. ArbeitMachtFrei: "REALITY = Chinese nationalism/violent, bloody history." Please tell me this hasn't happened elsewhere. Case in point: We (interestingly) have an American History course at our school. Once, when the teacher asked why anyone was even taking it, the most common answer was - "War is more interesting". Does this say something about the western world?

Also, what do any of these demonstrations actually /accomplish/? You want to accomplish something, you don't go and stand in the street and attack a /torch/. If you really feel so strongly about it, there's a Chinese Embassy in many places, there's even an actual place called Tibet beyond just a name for a banner for "Free Tibet".

From what I can see, all this hubub over the Olympics demonstrations is really just a way for people to think "Look, I'm a human rights activist. I'm making the world a better place." To the people saying "Boycott China" - someone said this before, and I'll say it in reference to child labour as well: Go ahead, boycott - last I checked, taking away someone's wages completely doesn't help them at all. Something is better than nothing.

On Western news. I was watching the Chinese channel one day, and it was a news conference with two (I think there were two?) leaders from Tibet. At one point near the end, a BBC reporter asked "Do you feel you have lost your human rights?" In a nutshell, he said, No. Compared to the previous feudal system, of which he was not part of the 5% who have undoubtedly lost 'human rights', the current way is better. But by that point, the BBC reporter had already packed their bags and was leaving. I think this says something.

But then again, I'm a high school student. I have an appalling lack of life experience, but I do not think that any of this is doing any good. This article is wonderful - especially written from a 'western' viewpoint.

Aeris,

Your reasoning is exactly the same reasoning adopted by Germans to overlook the excesses of the Nazis in the 1930s. For example, "Yes, we have concentration camps, but concentration camps were invented by the British for the Boors in S. Africa."

This is one of the points that Rudmin is making: the majority has an ugly tendency to exterminate the minority if it believes that the minority is a threat.

The foreigners vis-a-vis the nationalistic Chinese represent an anti-Chinese conspiracy.

Danger! Danger! Danger!

I am a chinese from Xinjiang Province, which is the biggest province with 13 minorities and the largest minority of Uighur。 I would like to share my own 25 year experience when I was living in Xinjiang.

1. Education. Han chinese and Uighur chinese have different schools, starting from elementary, middle, and high school simply because we use different language and words. But, Uighurs have more options, they can go to han school or their own school. In china, it is very competitive to get an admission of Universities, accepted ratio is much lower than Harvard in USA. But, minority has a big advantage of getting admission of University. One of my Uighur classmate, his score of national university admission exam is only 350, the full score is 720 over 7 subjects (math, chemistry, physics, biology, history and politics, literature and language， and english) But, he went to zhejiang university, which is a top 5 university in China. As for a regular han chinese, in order to get an admission such as zhejiang university, the minimum score is at least 550. You can do the math. 200 points difference. Especially, if the universities are located in Xinjiang Province, the difference will be even larger.

2. Minority policy. In Xinjiang province, the chinese government has to make up many policies that favor the minorities, including job, education, one-child-policy, and even law.

As for most of Americans, you don't even know what chinese history and current society, then you start to make a judgment based on your imagination. Especially for those western media of CNN, I believe CNN has knowledge, but they still deliberately report unbalanced and biased news to against Chinese government and Chinese.

I was totally disappointed by ignorant of USA public and western media from this event of olympics torch relay. From news of CNN, FOX, NBC, you will hear news most about protester, but they tried to ignore thousands of chinese voluteers who support and protect torch relay. The public is misleaded by these media.

I believe if western media make a survey about olympics by randomly picking up any chinese living in usa, you guys will be surprised by the results. Chinese's culture is to keep low-profile in politics, and emphases on education, but this does not mean that they all agree with these distortion opinion and non-sense opinion from western media.

The comment by Karl on his first-hand information concerning the Lisu tribal minority in China should not be lost in the threads of this discussion. The events he describes are tragic, and I presume that everyone engaged in this discussion here wishes that the damage Karl describes had not happened and will not happen more. Not to the Lisu cultural group nor to Lisu individuals.

I have had no prior knowledge of the Lisu, but have sought to find information. The risk factors for minority culture destruction are high for them. 1) They are a small minority, fewer than 1 million. 2) There own internal political organization breaks into clans. So they have little likelihood of well representing their complaints to authorities. 3) They inhabit the border areas of China, India, and Burma, even into Thailand and Vietnam. Thus, they fall under many different national administrations, and they are in the middle of border disputes and smugglers' routes. 4) They have their own religion based on spirits and shamanism, but that has been threatened by conversions to Buddhism and to Christianity. 5) Their culture is traditional, based on simple agriculture in forested mountain areas. Thus modernity is a threat. The experience of his wife is not different from the experience of many traditional and tribal minority individuals who become "modernized". They end up marginalized from both cultures. Canadian Native people's have many such accounts.

Karl reports cultural aggression against the Lisu by the Chinese and reports racism against them by the Vietnamese. China does include the Lisu as one of the official minority peoples. I do not know if the linguistic research Karl describes and the training of his wife were the result of a deliberate government policy to destroy the Lisu culture. To my knowledge, that is not policy. If it were policy, the destruction would probably be more extensive and complete. Do-gooders, whether Western or Chinese, can do a lot of damage with good intentions. Missionaries are famous for this. The linguistic research and "education" of his wife might have been seen as helpful not oppressive by the people doing it.

The Lisu people clearly need cultural protection by international agreements of the nations in which they live. This might be timely because Lisu cultural protection requires the preservation of isolated mountain forests, which climate protection and animal protection also need. China now would benefit from public display of its concern for minorities, and about its concern for climate and wilderness. Probably the greatest threat to the Lisu, is not Chinese policies towards minorities, but commercial demand for tropical hardwood, especially that cut illegally by gangster or by corrupt local politicians or military officers. China has this problem, too, and is trying to crack down on it. Many motivations and causes line up on this topic.

I will copy sections of this discussion and send them to the Chinese embassies in Norway where I work and in Canada where I am from, with the argument that China should try to host an international meeting to mutually coordinate ways to protect the Lisu and their mountain forests. Others in this discussion might do similarly. It is a bit of a long reach to think that a discussion thread could end in success on something like this. But it is worth trying. It is much more likely than Tibet independence. There are probably scholars in China, India and elsewhere who study Lisu language and culture and who are sympathetic to their situation. They might be able to advise such an effort.

But such letters should be polite, positive, and apolitical. It will not be helpful to the Lisu to call the Chinese slant-eyed communist monsters, or to get CIA funding for the Lisu, or to demand Lisu independence, or to burn buildings, or to attack the Olympic torch.

I am not sure how long CommonDreams software will allow a discussion to run, but I will report back if possible.

In trying to find out more about the Lisu, I found this website entitled
US REPORT ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN INDIA: A CRITIQUE. See:

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers/paper82.html

Here it states that, quote:

"After the capture of Yunnan by the Communists, the KMT troops crossed over into the Shan State of Myanmar. By taking advantage of the absence of Myanmarese army control over Northern Myanmar, these troops, supplied by air by the CIA from Thai bases, continued to organise raids on Chinese army posts in Yunnan.

In this, they received valuable help from the Lisu tribes, who are found in Yunnan and in the Kachin State of Myanmar. American Baptist missionaries played an active role in rallying these tribes in support of the KMT troops."

So maybe Chinese policy was in fact hostile towards the Lisu minority, and maybe with good reason. I have no independent sources on the veracity of this claim.

It is amazing what is findable on the internet. My search also bumped into the obituary of the CIA agent who helped the Dalai Lama's escape from Tibet to India. It was published July 7, 2003, in Bangkok, and reposted. See:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/942811/posts

The obituary of Anthony A. Poshepny (also called "Tony Poe") was also carried by Asia Times, under the title, DEATH OF A DIRTY FIGHTER:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/EG08ae02.html

He seems to have been a brutal man to be guiding a Buddhist leader.

I wonder how the Norwegians felt about the Nazi invasion and occupation ?

More on the Lisu Minority supporting Kuomintang guerillas:

The book, "CONSERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT IN NORTHERN THAILAND", edited by Jack Ives, Sanga Sabhasri, and Pisit Voraurai, was published November 1978 by the United Nations University Press. It includes a brief report by Vanida Chitman on "Land use and its relationship to agriculture in Pangsa, Chiang Rai: A case study". The paragraph on the history of the Pangsa states:

"The first group of people who settled here in 1965 was the Lisu. Thirty-four years ago these people migrated from Burma and settled at Mae Salong, where a remnant of the Kuomintang army was encamped."

See: http://www.unu.edu/unupress/unupbooks/80077e/80077E0b.htm

In response to JConrad:

In the long history before WWII and during WWII, Germany never claimed that Norway was part of Germany, and Norwegians never thought that either. No nation has ever recognized Norway as a German province. In contrast, Chinese governments (Imperial, Kuomintang, and Communist) have long claimed Tibet as Chinese territory. In the 1930s, the US government recognized Tibet as a province of China. The present Dalai Lama in the 1950s and today, agrees that Tibet is part of China. The Dalai Lama has been demanding autonomous theocratic administration in Tibet, not independence of Tibet.

Thank you for telling the truth man!

here are some numbers from the tibet government in exile:

1) roughly 80,000 followers escaped to dharamsala, india, in 1959. let's use the number 80,000 ("the Dalai Lama and some 80,000 Tibetans crossed the Himalaya to seek refuge in India, Nepal and Bhutan in 1959").

2) roughly 2000~2500 tibetans sneaked out and join dalai lama, according to the tibet government in exile ("An average of 2000 to 2500 Tibetans come to exile in India every year. More than 44 percent of them are teenagers and young adults (age 14-25), Thirty three percent adults (26-59), More than 17 percent young children (0-13) and only 5 percent are over the age of sixty."). to boost the case for the "tibet government in exile", let's put the number 3000.

3) most recent available census from the tibet government in exile for the tibetan exiles (global figure) is roughly around 125,000 ("Today, after more then four decades in exile, there are now total of 12,2078 (TDS*) number of Tibetan population living worldwide.")

4) most recent available census from the tibet government in exile, roughly 112297 monks and nuns ("there are 223 monasteries and 15 nunneries with 11067 monks and 1230 nuns"), outside of tibet, china. let's put the number to 13000.

in nowadays tibet according the data from china), the rates of population growth are 1.3% to 1.7%, depended on the period of time, i think the 1.7% was in later 70s and 80s. let's use low end of it, say 1.3% for the base. for the rate of population growth of india, it is about 1.5% (we don't have the rate of population growth for tibetan exiles). let's use the mean value of 1.4% to calculate the population growth of the tibetan exiles and use 50 years (easier to calculate)

1) the population growth from those 80,000 (1959) after the 50 years (1959-2009) should be:

80,000 *（1+1.4%)^50=160320

let's make it 170,000 so that it would be in favor of the tibet government in exile.

2) for those 3000 escapees joined dalai every year(so claimed by the tibet government in exile), the population growth after 50 years (1959-2009) should be:

3000*(1.014+1.014^2+1.014^3+1.014^4+.....1.014^50)=3000*(1-1.014^50)/(1-1.014)=215142.88

let's say 216,000

so the overall population growth, according to the dalai lama side figure should be:

170000+216000=386,000.

the numbers above are under assumption that those monks married those nuns.

now the number 125,000 (census by the tibet government in exile) and the calculated number 386,000 according to the junior high math don't seem to match. with nuns and monks are only about 13,000, where do those rest of 261,000 go?

could be:

1) not that many followers as the tibet government in exile claimed.
2) the life in abroad for those exiles is so bad that the tibetan exiles actually have negative population growth (almost 2/3 of exiles died?).

the above based on the sources of the origin:

http://www.arcytech.org/java/population/facts_math.html
http://www.geography.org.uk/download/GA_Conf07Paljor.doc

Excellent and enlightening discussion and links from Rudmin.

ipfreak: I think your calculation is interesting but somewhat flawed. A lot of the 80,000 people who escaped with the Dalai Lama were monks. So they are not going to reproduce like lay people.

To ascott and other members:

I want to provide some information about Chinese Government's Policy toward Ethnic Minorities. The motivation of the ethnic policy is nationality equity. And the corresponding principle is some Chinese scholars called "positive discrimination" which provide more rights or privileges to the minority nationalities. It's because the economics and social development in minority districts are on average lagged behind those in Han Chinese (the majority nationality which accounts for 93% of Chinese population) dominated areas.
I list some guidelines as bellows for your information:
(1) Minority Chinese don't need to pay the income tax, but Han Chinese must be taxed;
(2) Minority Chinese have the right to be educated free, from kindergarten to college study, if they want and have the capability. If the household income is lower than some threshold (which is varied over districts), government will also provide the basic living expenses. For Han Chinese, only the children in "Poverty" counties or villages (they are identified by the central government) are qualified for free primary school education.
(3) Minority Chinese are qualified to have lower APR (2% than current rate announced by the Chinese central bank)when raising debts from state-owned banks, such as mortgage, while for Han Chinese, they don't have the privilege.
(4) As also mentioned in Mr. Rudmin's article, one-child-policy only applied to Han Chinese. That's why the ratio of Han Chinese population to overall Chinese population drops to 93% in 2007, from 96% in 1949, according to the Statistical Yearbook 2007 of China. It means the population of Minority Chinese has been increased as two times faster as the Han Chinese. The Tibetan population ratio in Tibet is quite stable, from 95% in 1959 to 93% in 2007 due to the migration of other ethics, such as Muslims and Han Chinese (according to the Tibet Statistical Yearbook 2007).
(5) According to China's law, Minority Chinese have priority in education and employment admission. For example, all minority applicants have the privilege of adding 20 points to their score reports in the application for undergraduate and graduate study in any universities in Mainland China (Hong Kong and Macao are not included). The same way is also found in civil servant admission and job seeking to state-owned corporations. A possible result we will find is that minority Chinese might be more well educated and trained thus having better development opportunities on average than Han Chinese in 10-20 years.
(6) According to China's Central government plan, all minority Chinese should have free health insurance and endowment insurance. However, as far as know, some local governments have some delays in executing this policy due to the fiscal problem. In Tibet, most of the monks, peasant, and shepherds have already enjoyed the free insurances because it's the central government not the Tibet local government pays the bills.
(7) Criminal punishes. Although it's not regulated by any legal acts, in practice, given the same crime, minority Chinese criminals are subject to fewer penalties for an offense, a sin, or a fault, than Han Chinese under the name of "Nationality Equity".
(8) Minority oral and writing languages are strictly protected by law in both the nation-level and province/district-level. Any attempts to forbid minorities to speak, write, look, and listen their own languages are violated the law. Till now, China still has 53 ethnic oral languages and 28 writing languages. Chinese language courses are selective courses just as foreign languages, such as English. The courses are teaching in their own minority languages if they have. Only in the middle school stage, the Chinese language courses are as compulsory as English language courses are. That's why I kept encountering communication frustration when traveling to the minorities areas.
(9) Plus some facts about Tibet. One, Tibet district doesn't need to pay even one penny taxation to the central government, but the central government covers 94.9% of the Tibet district fiscal expenditure. Two, from 1959, Chinese government setup a enormous aid and build plan for Tibet which are support from both the central government and other provinces. The accumulative value from 1984 to 2005 is 40.8 billion Yuan (5.8 billion USD in current exchange rate) which supports 1,009 projects (source: Tibet Autonomous Region Write Book, 2004). That's quite a lot for China which is still a underdeveloped country.

If we talking about "ethnic discrimination", "demographic aggression" and "cultural genocide", I think these terms are more appropriate to the majority nationality - Han Chinese, not to the 55 minority nationalities.

I am not saying China doesn't have any serious human right problems. The truth is China has lots of human right problems, but most of these problems are universal to the whole nation, not only to the Tibet district, because China is a developing country. China is big and complicated, thus any democratic reforms must be very prudent and could only be applied only after careful test and evaluation.

icemilkcoffee

according to the tibet government in exile in 2000:

"there are 223 monasteries and 15 nunneries with 11067 monks and 1230 nuns"

indeed, in its doc, it bragged about the religion of the freedom.

hey everybody, I am a Chinese student studying in England, has been since 2004.

Good artical, and Thank you.

Lately, there are angry Chinese people all over the internet as a result of selectively biased Western media which misled many many people into anti-Chinese activities. Many don't even know what actually happened. (13 innocent Chinese were killed by those so-called peaceful protesters.) These activities soon became a political/TV show for some people....Unhealthy nationalism is developing as we speak among youngger generations of Chinese. We were so happy and proud that the Olympic Games is coming to China, many of us feel it is the time for us to show the world how much we have developed in 30 years. We worked our heart out to get ready to invite the guests in for a party, but shameless acts acctacking the torch and one-sided stories reported by major Western media taught us a big lesson that we will never forget: We cannot just become richer and stronger and share the world peacefully with the West, they don't like that, they just want us to produce cheap products forever and so then comeback and complain about the quality. We are getting too big for them to invade like what they did to Iraq so they are trying out a different approach. Media distortion.

Sorry I generalized few people as all Western population but to be honest with you this won't matter to millions of Chinese back home. How sad is that.

To the fanatic JConrad who are screaming your lungs out of "FREE this" and "FREE that", you are making yourself a total fool here. Get a clue: We don't need your frigging stinky "freedom"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZbp28696Q&eurl

Wherever your "freedom" goes, there's deaths and destruction. Get lost, you morally bankrupted hypocrite!

ArbeitMachtFrei said: "the Chinese media is feeding the illusion of a foreign conspiracy.."

If your eyes are still working, tell me here whose media are publishing these distortions – manipulated press coverage using distorted photos:

http://www.anti-cnn.com/

Fine, there's no conspiracy. I'll take what you said... Why then, all the sudden that all the Western "journalists" and "editors" couldn't tell the difference between Nepal police, Indian Police, and Chinese police? Couldn't tell the difference between a red-cross ambulance and a military truck? Is it because of their low IQ, poor education, poor judgment? Got any clue?

after doing some study, i found some information in my last comments are not correct. Followings are revised information for item numbering (1) and (2):
(1) Favorable income tax policy. In some minority areas, minority Chinese and corporations don't need to pay the income tax or have some considerable tax deduction, but Han Chinese must be taxed. For example, all peasants and shepherds in Tibet are qualified for the income tax exemption and the corporation income tax rate in Tibet is reduced by 3% from the general rates;
(2) Minority Chinese have the right to be educated free, from kindergarten, primary school, to high school study, if they want and have the capability. If the household income is lower than some threshold (which is varied across districts), government will also provide the basic living expenses. For Han Chinese, only the children in "Poverty" counties or villages (they are identified by the central government) are qualified for free primary school education.

Power_Slave

I like the idea you proposed about Puerto Ricans voting although it is not formally a part of US. The reason it works is because US are rich and as a fact I heard many latin-america people from other countries are trying to join US. That might make american feels good but not practical. But when south states broke away from US, Lincoln invade and conquered them with force and caused big casualty. That's also true and said image. And back to the voting, how about let all californian vote for independent every several years (including legal and illegal mexican immigrants). Anyway, US didn't get it without force from mexico. Back to Puerto Rico case, it's funny I just read a news for the last 3 days that leaders of Puerto Rico independent movement were proached by FBI agents carrying guns and harrassed by them. Are they trying to run a police state over there?
One of the main reason the Tibetan Independent movement is on the move is US government is supporting them through NED and give them the impression that US will back up all their actions. Think about what if China fund Puerto Rico independent movement, Hawaii Independent movement, Native American Independent movement, Mexican in California for legal rights movement ( I made the last one up), how will it be? and How do you feel?

About the charge of massacres of tibetan, do you have some materials that I can read? Hopefully it's not from the Tibetan government in exile.

People saying the Chinese government has killed X many tibetans, do you have pictures, videos or journals? Prove this or stop talking. When you say things like that, you need legitimate and hard evidence to back up your point.

Some analysis indicates that plans of roit in tibet and TI demonstrations around the world at a time of Olympics were probably plotted last year in a meeting held at Brusell when some US,Germany officials meet with some 300 TI movement members and Dalai Lama sent his representative and a keynote speech. NED and D-N Fundations were behind the curtain. If it's true, we will continue to see more to come before the Olympic and during the Olympic in Tibet and around the world. It's said they will make a scene every single day during the Olympic game. Let's wait and see.

Oh, I forgot to mention one article.
Risky Geopolitical Game: Washington Plays 'Tibet Roulette' with China

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8625

To Floyd Rudmin,

Very thoughtful and well research article. I have also read your respond to comment. As a China wacther myself. The biggest irony is that the largest minority in China, the Man is the first to totally lost their identity. The language is now almost dead despite there are clsoe to 20 million Man Chinese. Although a lot of their culture legacy live in the Han majority.

My believe is that as long as the minority continue to live in en group in their areas their language and culture would more or less survive. The biggest threat actually comes from modern globalization. Mongolian herdsman riding motorcycle to tend herds and Tibetan children playing video games, soccer etc.

JConrad wrote:
And Chinese workers cannot organize to challenge the wealthy upper class Han fascists who are getting rich by exploiting labor and the environment ! Labor organizers go to prison !

-----
The situation was the same at the begining of the last century except it was in the USA. That was how American capitalism, that you enjoy now, was built.

This is the Chinese century (like it or not China is rising) and it is suffering the same pain as the American laborers did in the last century when America was rising in the beginning of the last century.

I am a Chinese living in the US for almost 10 years. In 1989, when Chinese people asked their government for more political freedom, I was one of the street demonstrators. I have also traveled 20 some countries in Europe and Asia. I admit in general the west is a much developed and civilized society compared to China, although the gap is narrowing every day.

However, critics on China has always been exaggerated and this time is literally crazy. I almost give up any hope to persuade my American friends who have been so nice to me in my daily life, until I see this website and this article. Like what Ron Paul once said the internet will eventually defect the mainstream media, well, maybe there is still hope for Chinese, and this world. As a Chinese American who see both sides of the story, I would like to echo the author with the following comments:

Most westerners' view of China (its people and government) remained 50 years old. The communist China and the west had propaganda war between 1949 and 1980, when each side was demonizing the other. The American government was portrayed as a "monster" who utilized its tools of government, troops, churches and media to control and suppress the minds of its people, and other peoples around the world. And vice versa.

After China opened up its country in 1980, the west influence flooded into the country (by the way, nobody ever called it a cultural genocide), everybody learns how to speak English. After a few years, Chinese found out that the west is not really such a devil. The Chinese media, although still controlled by the government, has become much more positive towards the west. After internet is being popularized, most people can access the western websites and read news (by the way, only a very tiny fracture of western media are forbidden by the Chinese government).

At the same time, the west didn't really change much of its opinions on China. China, especially the government, is still described as a monster which abuses its people. Of course, compared to the west, China is far from perfect. However, China has changed TREMENDOUSLY politically! 30 years ago, if someone dared to say a bad words about Mao, this person would be for sure killed as an "anti-revolutionist". Now, people on street can openly criticize the Communist party and government leaders like Hu. Nobody will be prosecuted unless they want to officially setup a party to take over the current government - this is still illegal according to the current Chinese laws (for a developing society suffering from numerous internal turmoils, this might be a good law for the time being to assure stability environment for economic and cultural development. These laws, will eventually change, for sure.)

Therefore, most westerners still look at China as what it was 50 years ago. They can't read Chinese news and most of them don't care to read English news from communist controlled media - although a lot of them are not that biased. It's hard for them to believe the truth, as it was difficult for a Chinese 30 years ago to believe most Americans are indeed very nice human beings.

I hope this website, together with other progressive practices will eventually change the media monopoly, so people will be properly informed. Otherwise, I won't be surprised at all if human history would end 50 years from now!

A LETTER FROM AN ORDINARY CHINESE

When we were seen as "Sick Men from East Asia", we were called The Peril.
When we strived to get stronger, we are called The Threat.

When we closed our doors to the world, you forced them open with drugs and guns.
When we finally embraced Free Trade, you blame us for taking away your jobs.

When we were falling apart, you marched in your troops and robbed us blind.
When we put the broken pieces back together again, "Free Tibet" you screamed, it was an invasion!

So, we tried Communism, you hated us for being Communists.
Then we learned from Capitalism, you hated us for being Capitalists.

When we had a billion people, you said "The planet is starving."
So we tried to limit our population, you said it was Human Rights Abuse.

When we were poor, you think we are dogs.
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your debts.

When we build our industries, you blame us for global warming.
When we sell you goods you can afford, you blame us for dumping inferior products.

When we buy oil, you called that exploitation and assisting genocide.
When you fight for oil, you called that Liberation of Its People.

When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you wanted Rules of Law for us.
When we uphold our law and order against violence, you called that Violating Human Rights.

When we were silent, you said we have No Free Speech.
When we are NOW silent no more, you say we are merely "Brainwashed".

"Why do you hate us so much?" We asked.
"No" You answered, "We don't hate you."
Truth is we really don't hate you either, but do you understand us?
"Of course we do" You said, "We have BBC, CNN and AFPs."
So we ask you now "What do you really know and want from us?"
And "Why do you find it SO hard to accept us?"

The previous post is great. Sums up Western pathological thinking very well.

Anyway, having practiced Buddhism for many years, last summer I visited China to see how well it was doing, and met lots of Chinese, especially a Buddhist monk, but Han not Tibetan. I didn't get any sense of there being lack of religious freedom. We took a train ride for three days and he wrote a note criticizing the vegetarian food. but hey when has food on trains or planes been good in the USA?

The first few days I spent with a college girl as my guide and Chinese teacher, who was very smart, a really wonderful person who was eager to learn English, and be successful. But she came from a Muslim background and had no interest in it at all. Or religion in general. But that was her choice. She was an excellent student. And coming from a minority group (not Tibetan) it didn't seem that anyone was holding her back.

Another young 20 something woman friend had a job in the city I stayed at. She was half Han Chinese and half Mongolian. She talked about a minority woman who had according to news reports, tried to blow up an airplane. She couldn't understand what the reason was for some minorities to do such things.
So there are two Chinese citizens that were not Han and both doing very well.

In the city I was staying, there were 4 recognized dialects. Yet in the US, there is considerable resistance to bilingualism. So which society is more open to minorities?
The key issue that Free Tibet people are missing, I think, is how would Tibet do if it got the Balkans treatment, like Kosovo, has. Does anyone really think that Western corporate interests cares one bit about Tibetans, and that
a "free" Tibet would be better off as pawn of General Electric or Fox News?

The West would eat Tibet for lunch and toss the bones away. Recently, a Lakota Souix elder declared that in light of all the broken treaties and centuries of real cultural and physical genocide, they were seceding from the the US. But do people really think that if Tibet were free of China, the West would give the Tibetans a better deal? Please don't be so naive.

As the post above duly pointed out, Criticism of China is based far more on racist projection and inherent cultural arrogance. China will never do anything right, because Western Civilization, which was living in the Dark Ages when China was a highly developed culture, thinks that the West is inherently superior.

A final point, while I was there, the poison paint Chinese toy scandal broke out. But the Western press did not note that Wall Street sold the Bank of China 10 Billion dollars of fraudulent AAA mortgages that defaulted.
See, the West is always good and the East are the dishonest ones. Behold the log in your own eye before commenting on the splinter in your neighbor's eye.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/15/224155/744/780/492483
On Tibet and Propaganda: Follow the "Information"
by Zwoof
Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:41:55 PM PDT

And now a word from a real journalist
James Miles, a reporter for The Economist and BBC, was in Lhasa by chance when the riots broke out he was allowed to stay and was unattended. Below are some cuts of his eyewitness account that was shown on CNN International on March 20th .

Q. How easy was it for you to see what you wanted to see?

A. Well remarkably so, given that the authorities are normally extremely sensitive about the presence of foreign journalists when this kind of incident occurs.

Q. What you say you saw corroborates the official version. What exactly did you see?

A. What I saw was calculated targeted violence against an ethnic group, or I should say two ethnic groups, primarily ethnic Han Chinese living in Lhasa, but also members of the Muslim Hui minority in Lhasa. And the Huis in Lhasa control much of the meat industry in the city. Those two groups were singled out by ethnic Tibetans. They marked those businesses that they knew to be Tibetan owned with white traditional scarves. Those businesses were left intact.

A. Well the Chinese response to this was very interesting. Because you would expect at the first sings of any unrest in Lhasa, which is a city on a knife-edge at the best of times. That the response would be immediate and decisive. That they would cordon off whatever section of the city involved, that they would grab the people involved in the unrest. In fact what we saw, and I was watching it at the earliest stages, was complete inaction on the part of the authorities. It seemed as if they were paralyzed by indecision over how to handle this. The rioting rapidly spread from Beijing Road, this main central thoroughfare of Lhasa, into the narrow alleyways of the old Tibetan quarter. But I didn't see any attempt in those early hours by the authorities to intervene

Q. When you were told to leave, what were you told?

A. Well I had an 8-day permit to be in Lhasa. That permit began two days before the rioting, on March 12, and was due to run out on March 19. My official schedule was basically abandoned after a couple days of this. Many of the places on my official itinerary turned out to be hotspots in the middle of this unrest. They left me to my own devices. I was stopped by the police at one point, taken to a police station. They made a few phone calls and then let me go back out on the streets full of troops and police carrying out the security crackdown. They insisted however that when my permit did expire on the 19th that I had to leave. I asked for an extension and they said decisively no.

Another report from a Western journalist that was in Lhasa

Georg Blume, a reporter for the German newspaper Die Zeit, was one of the few Western journalists to get into Lhasa after the riots. He arrived on March 15, he said, and saw huge areas damaged by riots, fires and looting.

He says some Tibetans who took part in the riots said they were proud that they were finally able to stand up to the Chinese; others said they were ashamed of the violence.

They complained about social discrimination, unequal pay and rumors that almost everyone had heard that Tibetan monks had been arrested, and even killed, in the days before the riots.

As much reading as I have done on this, I have yet to find any mention of Monks being killed "in the days before the riots".
Where did these rumors originate? If I have missed something, please inform me.

Who "marked those businesses that they knew to be Tibetan owned with white traditional scarves"? Who spread the rumor that Monks had been "killed in the days before the riots"? Why did this happen just a few days before the elections in Taiwan and the Olympic Torch Relay?

I've previously written on the geo-political and socio-economic forces that must be considered in this region. If you haven't read this, please do so. At least check out the maps I included. (Speed reading is allowed).

How to see hypocrisy in action: The Basque people are an ancient minority group inhabiting the western Pyrenees Mountains in Spain and France. With the mountains as natural defence, and with their strong sense of cultural identity, they resisted and survived the Roman Empire, the Arab conquest, and the Christian reconquest. But they were defeated during the Spanish Civil War by Franco's fascist forces. Franco subsequently moved Spaniards into the Basque region. Bilbao is the largest Basque city, but only 50,000 of the 350,000 population speak Basque language. It looks like Franco's policies of "demographic aggression" and "cultural genocide" achieved their goals, even though the current Spanish government has renounced them and is trying to be conciliatory.

There is a Basque separatist movement, comprised of different groups, the most violent of which is ETA. Two days ago, on April 17, Basque separatists exploded a bomb in Bilbao, targeting the Spanish Socialist Party, which had just won re-election in Spain. To show their "peaceful" intentions, the separatists called in a warning so the building could be evacuated. Nevertheless, the building was damaged and seven Spanish police officers were wounded.

This news was reported by CNN, BBC and Reuters (but apparently by not the French government news service, AFP):

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/17/bomb-wounds-7-in-northern-spain/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7351900.stm
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L17461632.htm

Now here's the hypocrisy: there have been no world-wide demonstrations supporting Basque separatists and denouncing Spain. From a Western perspective, the parallels between the Tibetan separatists attacking Han property in Lhasa and Basque separatist attacking Spanish property in Bilbao are perfectly parallel, nearly identical. But….but the Western response is dramatically different.

How to see hypocrisy in action: The Basque people are an ancient minority group inhabiting the western Pyrenees Mountains in Spain and France. With the mountains as natural defense, and with their strong sense of cultural identity, they resisted and survived the Roman Empire, the Arab conquest, and the Christian reconquest. But they were defeated during the Spanish Civil War by Franco's fascist forces. Franco subsequently moved Spaniards into the Basque region. Bilbao is the largest Basque city, but only 50,000 of the 350,000 population speak Basque language. It looks like Franco's policies of "demographic aggression" and "cultural genocide" achieved their goals, even though the current Spanish government has renounced them and is trying to be conciliatory.

There is a Basque separatist movement, comprised of different groups, the most violent of which is ETA. Two days ago, on April 17, Basque separatists exploded a bomb in Bilbao, targeting the Spanish Socialist Party, which had just won re-election in Spain. To show their "peaceful" intentions, the separatists called in a warning so the building could be evacuated. Nevertheless, the building was damaged and seven Spanish police officers were wounded.

This news was reported by CNN, BBC and Reuters (but apparently by not the French government news service, AFP):

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/17/bomb-wounds-7-in-northern-spain/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7351900.stm
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L17461632.htm

Now here's the hypocrisy: there have been no world-wide demonstrations supporting Basque separatists and denouncing Spain. From a Western perspective, the parallels between the Tibetan separatists attacking Han property in Lhasa and Basque separatist attacking Spanish property in Bilbao are perfectly parallel, nearly identical. But . . .but the Western response is dramatically different.

Oops. AFP did report the Bilbao bombing:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080417/wl_afp/spainblastbasqueseta

Nazis?The Nazis killed millions Jews in the whole europe.But now there are more than 5 millions Tibetan in Tibet.In 1949 there war only more than 1 million.For the chinese,the nations and the country have a total different concept as the west.For the chinese,the people should not to believe one special religion or speak one special language to prove that they are chinese.It's totally the west mind.We all come from different nations,even Han.This name come from probably the second chinese dynasty"Han".The people,who lived in this dynasty,called themselves Han.It doesn't mean a special biological group.It is much like a tradition.
And for the person,who said "should we don't point out our failings just because we are not perfekt." Do you mean,that could someone really be so perfekt just like you think?Or even one country?It's just so ridiculous and impossibe.We are not perfect because we are different.Because we all have our own mind and way,and we all have our own history.
Should one country be to slander just because it is not so perfekt like "someone" think?
Should the chinese,especially the people who live now in these lands, tolerate all these lies and bias on TV and newspapers in Europe about china just in order to prove"we are not the radical nationalism'?
And should one government tolerate all these riots and killings to prove that china are a democracy country like the west want?
And how could Dalai Lama and his people,the most grow up in the west,prove,that they,who have no experience with govern but only the experience about diplomacy with the west and left Tibet for more than 50 years,that they could give the people in Tibet,more than 5 million and 17 nations,a better future?
For the west,or for the people,who just sit before the computer,it is so easy to say something about peoplesright or freedom.But when one day,when Tibet really goes into chaos and riot and wars.They still live in their peaceful land and sit in their cozy couch or perhaps they will go to the street and say something like "peace" or "anti-war".But China and Tibet,the people, more than 1.3 billion people,who really live in this land,must solve all these problems by their own.Then the west have very possibly the right to go on "helping"them.Just like Iraq.

There are many in the West who advocate boycotting Chinese goods to make China submit to Western demands. Well, boycotting is a two way street isn't it. I hope the Chinese people boycott the hell out of the Western junk that's imported into China. (Grassroots movements are now springing up all over China to do precisely that.) Westerners are after all the greatest perpetrators of genocide past and present. Let the Westerners get a taste of their own medicine and choke on their own arrogance and hypocrisy.

Mr Rudmin

Wasn't Tibet always independent, not jsut for a matter of centuries? (I have not seen your response, though I may have missed it, if it was buried somewhere in a long post to someone else.) Is demanding return to national independence not different than secession? (As an aside, are you aware of the growing secessionist sentiment in the state of Vermont?)

Isn't it possible to decimate - even annihilate - a culture through various non-violent methods, from 'education' to (forced) assimilation? Schools function very well to assimilate (i.e., indoctrinate) children. (The US proved this early in the last century, by sending Indian children to school. And the government claimed to be doing it with the best intentions and for the 'best reasons': help the next generation to adapt to a new way of life, by forcing their quicker assimilation - including assimilating them into Christianity.) I am suspicious of the push to educate minorities. I am suspicious of any government's attempt to single out certain groups for any reason.

Do you not find the huge influx of Han Chinese into Tibet via their new high-speed train problematic? The Christian Science Monitor's story gave a brief outline of the dangers the train poses to Tibetans. The Tibetans are described as worried about being overrun - and they are not the only people that fear it. Following the article, links to three other articles on Tibet, and one of those has more links.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p01s02-woap.html

frudmin wrote:

"Now here's the hypocrisy: there have been no world-wide demonstrations supporting Basque separatists and denouncing Spain. From a Western perspective, the parallels between the Tibetan separatists attacking Han property in Lhasa and Basque separatist attacking Spanish property in Bilbao are perfectly parallel, nearly identical. But . . .but the Western response is dramatically different."

Floyd,

You're feeding Chinese paranoia: there is no Int'l Anti-Chinese Conspiracy akin to the alleged Int'l Jewish Conspiracy.

In addition, Tibet and the Basques are not exactly the same. They're different regions of the world.

Moreover, you're being ridiculous when you assert that just because pro-Tibet protesters in the West don't also protest in favor of the Basques that they are hypocrits. Just because one gives money to help children in the Congo, but not to help children in Somolia doesn't make one a hypocrit. People have a right to protest; this includes the right to pick and choose their particular causes. In fact, it may be that many of the pro-Tibet protesters are protesting because they feel that they have to in order to remain consistent in their opposition to the Iraq War.

I suspect that there's something else going on here behind your arguments. There must be some kind of pro-China conflict-of-interest. You must have Chinese students in your classes or are trying to develop some relationship wiht a Chinese university.

ascott,

your response just shows the extent of our Western ignorance about Tibet. Even most of our well-informed are still truly ignorant, and even the most reputable of our media perpetuate our ignorance with misinformation. Tibet is complicated. It is impossible to understand Tibet without an understanding of Chinese history, which requires much more than the reading of a few online articles of dubious origins.

Assimilation is a concern in Tibet, but it is by no means "forced".
Education in Tibet is for the most part bilingual, except in Lhasa where it is trilingual (which i think is a mistake). The quality of schools in Tibet is still low, but they have made tremendous progress. Remember that the Chinese started from scratch with an almost completely illiterate population (over 95%). The problem with the use of standard Tibetan in schools is that many students end up with poor Chinese language abilities, making university life difficult. The Chinese government has responded by lowering the bar for Tibetan students in university entrance. And while I berate the quality of education in Tibet, I cannot deny that some schools are excellent, and the Tibetan arts (music, painting, etc) have flourished as they never have before.

Another problem is that many modern concepts (chemistry, physics, etc) cannot be expressed using the Tibetan language. Which is why some Tibetan parents opt to send their children to Chinese-only schools when they have the chance. Assimilation is a natural process that is an unfortunate consequence of globalization.

The huge influx of outsiders is a concern, but most of these are Western/Chinese tourists or migrant workers. Very few choose to stay in Tibet because their families remain in their home provinces. And the vast majority of them reside in the tiny capital city of Lhasa. As you know, Lhasa has always been a multicultural city of Muslims, Turks, Mongols, etc. Most Tibetans prefer to live rural/nomadic lifestyles and rarely encounter non-Tibetans.

Education is the key to both sustainable development and the preservation of Tibetan culture. Tibetans should have the right to live peacefully in China. I fear that Free Tibet activists may have taken away this right. All they have done is create hatred, and the only people they have helped are themselves and exiled Tibetans.

I will try to find more (reliable) information on education in Tibet. In the meantime, please be wary of where you get your information. The world is more complex than we can imagine.

ArbeitMachtFrei,

The Chinese paranoia is not unreasonable, considering CIA involvement (past and present) in Tibet.

Who are paying these professional "protesters"?
http://themodernchina.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/professional-tibetan-protestor-exposed/

In the name of "freedom", these Westerners even attacked athletes in wheelchairs during Olympic torch relay in Paris! The morality of these so-called "freedom & democracy" has degenerated to such despicable low level and lack of basic human indecency. Where's their basic human conscience? Shame on these hypocrites and those "journalists" and "editors" in the Western Media who are promoting this kind of violence and hatred!

Freedom and Human Rights? How about stopping the real crime against humanity first? Does the Western media have the courage to broadcast this over the air? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZbp28696Q&eurl

Does the Western media have the courage to show this on their web site?
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=8GAAP9bbggo

Get lost, the morally bankrupted "Free Tibet" hypocrites! Stop the bloody war in the Middle East first, and fix the racial discrimination in the US first!

There is no anti-Chinese international conspiracy.

One key feature of totalitarian states is propogation of the Conspiracy. For the Nazis, it was the alleged "Int'l Jewish Conspiracy".

Apparently, propogating conspiracy theories has all kinds of psychological effects on the population. Bush et al try to do this by pushing the alleged "Int'l Terrorism Conspiracy". Who are these so-called "Terrorists" anyway?

For the Chinese, it's the "Hostile Foreign Forces". It's just another way to manipulate the people. Don't play their game!

Oh, I see...So there is no anti-Chinese conspiracy. Just massive CIA involvement with Tibetan Independence and Falun Gong movements. It's obvious. No conspiracy whatsoever. Impossible. Out of the question.

I suppose Radio Free Asia is a perfectly neutral source of information too?

"I suspect that there's something else going on here behind your arguments. There must be some kind of pro-China conflict-of-interest. You must have Chinese students in your classes or are trying to develop some relationship wiht a Chinese university."

to ArbeitMachtFrei:

well, you can label me as 'brainwashed commie", or call me as "chink", fine, but you just so low that have to say something so pathetic to frudmin just because he/she disagree with you.

what a "great mind" for the freedom of speech!!!

Just for the record, I did not refer to anyone as "chink" or "commie".

There is no anti-China foreign conspiracy. Even if the CIA funded Tibetans in the 1950s (or even if it is still funding the Tibetans), the monks meditating in Gansu province, the protesters in London, France, the US, etc, Carrefoure, and Jimmy Smith sacking groceries at the local grocery store are not part of an anti-Chinese foreign conspiracy. It isn't real.

To suggest that there's an anti-Chinese foreign conspiracy destroys thought and the ability to think. It also promotes racist violence against all foreigners who by-definition must be part of this "foreign" conspiracy. It's not real. Look for answers elsewhere. Thank you for listening.

To ArbeitMachtFrei,

Why you would be trying to argue that "Carrefoure" among others is not a part of a "anti-China foreign conspiracy". No one thinks it is. The most "brainwashed" pro-China protesters do not believe (I can read some Chinese and I get this impression by reading some web forums these people tend to gather). I think those people protesting against Carrefoure in some Chinese cities these days are using this as a way to show and dissipate their anger, unfortunate and perhaps unfair for Carrefoure. The only reason I see is that it is a French business. There is a huge tick wall of mutual prejudice and misunderstanding between people. I don't blame the Chinese, because clearly the Western media and people apply double standards on China and themselves.

First, I really appreciate Mr. Rudmin and his article.
Why western countries did not mention that Tibet is not a part of China 30 years ago? Or why people did not support separatism in such a large scale 30 years ago?
So many people just do not want to see a powerful China, and just do not want to see that China take advantage of Beiking Olympics to reclaim his leadship of developing countries. In a word, be afraid from the bottom of the heart.
I am a Chinese, I sincerely hope that China turns into stronger and stronger. Because I have have more human rights than my grandfather when China was weak. I am living much happier than my grandfather when western countries imposed many unfair treatments on Chinese government.
Many people in western world find their life become tougher than before, and blame this on China. Actually, this is their governments or their capitalism's choice: to maximize the profits. In fact, Chinese do not very welcome so many investments because our natural capitals are depleting, our sustainable development are destroyed. I think this is the byproduct after China joined the WTO. One more reason, is there anybody do not agree that Walmart is a sweatshop?
I know there are many things our government should improve, but I believe our government must be better than any others if they seize the power of China. I talked some people from Iraq, they said they hated Saddam when he was a dictator, but they missed him so much when he was absent. Iraqis lost their national sovereignty after US invading, let alone their human rights.
I appreciate the words of Niccolo Machiavelli, "he should do what is right if he can; but he must be prepared to do wrong if necessary". Therefore, even if China did something wrong in Tibet (majorities of Chinese and I do not think so), it is necessary and any government will do the same thing.
Finally, I need to reiterate China is a competitor, but he wasn't, isn't and won't be enemy of western world. Stop demonizing Chinese government. We have our own judgment.

Here is a post from a Tibet native. Unlike those youngsters shouting 'Free T' during the Olympics Torch Relay, who was born out of Tibet, never spent one day there, and are likely to be descendents of slave-owners, he know what he is talking about.

Namjagbarwa, From Eastern Tibet

I'll use the name of my hometown's pride as my user ID here,---Mt. Namjarbarwa.

My English is not good so pls pardon me if you see any typo and mistake.

I am from Nyingchi Region, Eastern Tibet. 70% of my beloved homeland are
under Indian military occupation. All Thanks to the British support in 1962.
But that's another story.

During the past month, I've witnessed a lot protests here in U.S. and been
told about riots back at my homeland. I think it's my duty to clear on some
FACTS that are obviously and selectively omitted by the media and protesters.

1. His Holyness the Dalai Lama DOES NOT represent Tibet. Our Tibetan
Buddhism has 4 schools: Gelug, Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu. HH the Dalai Lama is
ONE of the TWO most respected living budda of Gelug (Yellow Hat Sect),
another one is Panchen Lama. HH the Dalai Lama can only represent farmers
and town living Tibetans from North Central Tibet (Centered with City of
Lhasa), which is about 20% of entire Tibetan population at the most. Entire
South Central Tibet (Centered with City of Xigaze) worship Panchen Lama only,
as well as we who are from Eastern Tibet only believe NyingMa Sect, the Red
Hat.

2. Example: If the President of Confederacy, Jefferson Davis, fled to Europe
after the Civil War was lost. Can he represent all Americans? I don't think
so. He IS qualified to represent all the slave masters though.

3. Since 1980, We Tibetans have not paid ONE cent of Tax to the central
government. We Tibetans have NOT paid ONE cent on fertilizer and seed. We
have promotion access to housing, education, birth, employment and all kinds
of other social benefits. The name of this promotion policy is called the
Affirmative Act in the United States. I don't know what it's called in Tibet
and honestly I didn't really care. It's been there since I was born. When I
realized that policy only applies to minority groups in China, I am already
13. I got 10 points raise on my average score when I graduated from
elementary school. And I know my brother got 20 points when he graduated
from high school. There are 10 Million high school graduates competing to
get into college every year. Can you imagine how many advantages this 20
point can make?? BTW, I have 3 brothers and 2 sisters, and there goes so-
called "Forced Birth Control among Tibetans".

4. Just like 95% of other Tibetans, my family was farmer-slaves before 1959.
We've always been slaves till HH the Dalai Lama and his slavery government
escaped from Tibet, along with most slave masters. Though the Chinese Army
already stationed in Tibet in 1950, the reform, the abandon of slavery
system was not carried out by central government. One story is that in 1954,
Chinese Army was hiring in my village to help them building concrete roads.
After they found out that their payments to the villagers are all robbed by
slave masters, they were angry and started paying merchandise and goods
directly, just to make sure the masters can't take them away. That was 4
years after People's Liberation Army entered Tibet.

5. I am kinda tired telling these stories now. I don't know why the world
outside Tibet had so many misleadings and understanding to our homeland. I
really appreciate that you said you were speaking for Tibetans. But there
are 3 million Tibetans living in Tibet now and you are only listening to
those around HH the Dalai Lama??? Our living conditions are much better
than those in exile and much much better than 50 years ago. And none of
these was the effort of exile Tibetan government, ZERO. We earned it by our
sweat drops and promotion policies from central government. Not a living
budda who was randomly picked by HH. And we want our life to be better and
better. Talking about moral standards and religion freedom, we Red Hat Sect
can practice all traditional customs everyday. I don't know what happened to
Yellow Hat and I don't understand why they seem like the only troubled ones
in Tibet and mostly I don't see how can HH the Dalai Lama become the
Representative of Tibet?!

Long live Tibet, Long live Peace, Long live China.

Part 2:
-------

#323 Namjagbarwa, From Eastern Tibet
commented, on
April 16, 2008 at 2:56 p.m.: Thank you for comments above. I still respect His Holiness the Dalai Lama. No matter what he has done and what he's been telling the world. The truth will prevail eventually. I, and I believe many other non-Gelug Tibetans, want him to come back to Tibet and China. Not for the divide of a nation, but for us finally being able to return the integrity of our religion to Tibet. Maybe my thought is just too childish and wishful.

My memory just jumped back to my childhood. I wasn't able to speak any Chinese before 9 years old. I only spoke Kham-Tibetan back then, one of the three Tibetan dialects (Amdo, Kham, Native Tzang-offical Tibetan). All my math classes were taught in Kham-Tibetan and I still remember how hard the teacher tried to explain mathematic theories to me. I still can remember her face because her Tibetan sounded very funny. Now it's nothing but respectful and thankful to her. Since central government does not have any policy and benefit to promote volunteers, plus Tibet's very rural and remote condition, inland people do not want to give up their fancy world and come to live here. So our access to basic education was very limited at that time. Only volunteers who were romantically even naively attracted by our religion and gorgeous landviews would stay. My math teacher was one of them. She is my angel. She went back to inland in 2006 due to the Cardiac Hypertrophy she was suffering in Tibet Plateau. After all, she was only breathing at 60% oxygen of normal level at 4100 meters/13500 feet, comparing with her hometown's altitude of 5 feet. And I KNOW she did NOT receive even one penny of subsidy from the government, both local and central. And she was not the only one.

Now our education basis is much stronger than 20 years ago since more and more Tibetans went back to our hometown teaching classes. Most of them got a chance to study in the Central University for Nationalities, a major university in Beijing built just for minority groups in China.

Just like U.S. has Asian American, Hispanic American, African American and so forth, China has 56 minority groups. And I know Tibetan is one of the few minority groups, if not the only one, that has privilege to receive elementary study in our own language. Can you think of any math or algebra classes being offered in Ethiopian or Philippine in America's public school system? Or a mainstream university just for minority groups of U.S., in order to provide more opportunities of education while preventing their cultural lose? And by the way, WHO firstly made up the phrase of CULTURAL GENOCIDE IN TIBET anyway!? Can't they just find a better way to grab eyeballs without sacrificing Tibetan's pride and credibility? And who can answer me why those rioters in March 14th's Lhasa were speaking Kham-Tibetan dialect instead of native UTzang-Tibetan? They live 900 miles away and who and what brought them to Lhasa? Why weren't the citizens of Lhasa playing a major role in the riot?

By the way, one of my school buddies in the village has been missing since the end of March. We all kinda know where he went and what he has done. His dad was talking with my uncles expressing the rage and just felt so shame that his family has a ____ now. He is so angry yet so worried about his son. He is just too young to understand. Himself was saved from struma by local government's free treatment in 2005.

A little bit about my homeland. I am from Nying Khri Rdzong, the main county of Nyingchi Prefecture. My prefecture was the largest one in Tibet, covers entire Eastern Himalaya, both South and North Face. But now the South Face, the area about 70% of my homeland is under Indian military occupation, they named my homeland as "Arunachal Pradesh" in 1963. All Thanks to the McMahon Line of British India. The People's Liberation Army fought for us in November of 1962 in order to recover our homeland---Southern Tibet. We supported them with anything we possibly can think of. Their entire supply line was formed and directed by more than 150,000 volunteered Tibetans and 30,000 yaks. 5-to-1 to support 30,000 PLA troops. That's 15% of the entire Tibetan population in 1962. Almost every family from Eastern and Southern Tibet volunteered when we heard PLA was fighting for our traditional soil in Southern Tibet. My two uncles were in the supply team and they still feel very proud to tell the story today, that they fought shoulder by shoulder with People's Liberation Army against Indian invaders. My village admires them because they are just about the only ones left who have actually set a foot print on our traditional soil---Southern Tibet, South Face of the Himalaya, where the capital of our Nyingchi Region was before the Indian occupation. Without our Tibetan's full support, PLA was IMPOSSIBLE to win the 1962 Sino-Indian War.

Another fact is, His Holiness the Dalai Lama never mentioned anything about the issue of Southern Tibet to India government. Not even ONCE. And we are talking about 90,000 square kilometers of traditional Tibetan land here. I understand his embarrassed position in this one because he is exiling in INDIA. I just hope that His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama still remembers that piece of homeland, where the 6th Dalai Lama was born and raised, where the 5th Dalai Lama built the Tawang Monastery, one of the most respected monasteries of Gelug (Yellow Hat), just like Jokang Monastery, Sera Monastery, Drepung Monastery, Ganden Monastery in Lhasa and Tashi Lhunpo Monastery in Xigazi!