Yep ~Namaste~ I agree.

And it's difficult to argue with Yap, yappity, yap there, cause he may know what he's talking about. I don't know all of the truth of that personally. One thing for sure, China is kicking our ass and laughing all the way to the bank.

If Human Rights records are to be the basis for Olympic Participation...then the USA should be permanently barred from competing.

You could always start your own US games with such events as Syncronized Waterboarding, Naked Pyramid Building and the 1000 Yard Genital Electrocution Dash

I am so disappointed that the Olympics torch did not pass through the city where I live. I have been deprived of the opportunity to pretend that I care about human rights abuses only in Tibet. It is so much more fun when the TV cameras are out there to record the proceedings. The use of made in China fire extinguisher to douse the Olympic eternal flame of freedom attempt was indeed a nice touch.

From Larouches EIR

"Once again, the British have played their Tibet Card......

..........In 1932, as the world was descending into Hell after the collapse of the world financial system—just as it is today—the British provoked chaos across Eurasia. Hitler's rise to power was financed by the Bank of England's Montagu Norman and his friends in the Bush and Harriman families in the United States, with the intention of instigating a war between the
Nazis and the Soviet Union, expecting them to bleed each other to death.

Meanwhile, Japan was instigated by London and its J.P. Morgan interests in New York to move into Manchuria, with the aim of seizing the wealth of China for the Anglo-Japanese alliance, while threatening the Soviets
from the East, and ending the hated Republic of China, founded under the leadership of the great champion of the American System, Sun Yat Sen.

To aid in that Japanese invasion of China—which officially launched World War II—the British activated their Tibetan assets as a second front, sending Tibetan troops against the forces of the Chinese Republic in southwest China, aimed at grabbing new pieces of China for an expanded "Greater Tibet." .......

........ In the 1930s, Tibet was under the direction of a senior officer of the Raj in India, Hugh Richardson, who had come to Tibet in 1932 to attempt to coerce the Chinese to give up their historic claim to Tibet as an integral part of China, and to give up more areas of China to Greater Tibet. He stayed in Lhasa, performing essentially the same function as the British Resident in an Indian state, providing weapons and direction to the local authorities, under the direction of the 13th Dalai Lama, who preceded the current Dalai Lama."

A Nazi Waffen SS delegation was deployed to Tibet by Heinrich Himmler in
1939, headed by Ernst Schaefer..... He became a lifelong friend of the Dalai Lama himself. He also became a convicted war criminal [and served some time], for his later work on Jews in the Nazi concentration camps, trying to find a biological means for determining Jewish origin.....

.....when the Chinese returned to Tibet after the 1949 Chinese revolution..... the Tibet Society, [was] founded by Richardson in 1959 to lead the campaign against China's sovereignty over Tibet. In 1994, [Schaefer and Richardson] held a grand reunion with the Dalai Lama, pledging their continued support for the independence of Tibet.

..........Tibetan gangs who have just rampaged through Lhasa took a page from the Nazi pogroms, marking those shops and homes owned by ethnic Tibetans with white flags, and trashing and burning all others, regardless of the innocent people trapped inside. ......James Miles, the journalist for the London Economist, .... wrote: "What I saw was calculated targeted violence against an ethnic group, or, I should say, two ethnic groups, primarily ethnic Han Chinese living in Lhasa, but also members of the Muslim Hui minority in Lhasa." The rioters, Miles said, "marked those businesses that they knew to be Tibetan-owned with white traditional scarves. Those businesses were left intact. ....

Before 1950, approximately 2 million Tibetans, about one-fourth of the population, entered the monkhood. The majority of those .....[had been] working as serfs on land owned by the government or by one of the thousands of monasteries. There was nearly total illiteracy among the peasantry, and even in the monkhood. ..... Justice was at the whim of the nobility and the Dalai Lama, as there was no organized system of courts. Polyandry, where a wife was shared among all the brothers of a family, was common. The British encouraged the Tibetans to prevent economic development.......... They wanted Tibet to be a buffer between the Raj in India and China..........

........The Dalai Lama fled to India during a failed revolt in 1959, but the British and the CIA continued providing military training for Tibetans
in exile through the 1960s and beyond.... During the 1980s, a number of covert operations were "privatized" to the semi-government National Endowment for Democracy (NED), carrying out "regime change" through political subversion rather than military invasion.

Thats just a taste, as it is subscription only. The Dalai Lhama is an Anglo-American puppet.

Funny how people can't get organized enough to protest whats going on in Iraq where we bomb territories under our occupation, or at home when we taser children and others who end up being killed. But they get all hot and bothered about a crackdown of a violent protest in Tibet. BS, those agitators are either government agents or hired thugs. Imagine if Hispanics decided they wanted an independent California or to take it back for Mexico, since we stole it from Mexico, and started to protest violentally, we would be dropping bombs on LA to kill homegrown terrorists.

This is ominous folks, maybe a prelude to WW III.

lost my tribe;

Take heart, what the trolls here - martingale, yap.chongyee, etc are saying are mere 'talking points' echoing the statements/sentiments expressed by the NOT FREE information found in the state run media of China.

The right to criticize China over Tibet has NOTHING at all to do with the policies of Bush, or the U.S. Government. Governments are governments and people are people and people must speak up against the wrong doing of governments everywhere, which, as you point out, we do in America daily - against the policies of our OWN government.

martingale, yap; take note, Americans are free to and DO criticize our own government. If you criticize your own government (something which most Chinese seem unable to do), you go to jail. So why are you posting here????? You use the free media of the rest of the world to post your propaganda and diatribes, but you can't even find a forum to talk openly in your beloved homeland. Fortunately, for the rest of us, we have a history of free speech and can see through most of your nonsense. 得到失去!!!

As for me, i have lived in China for many years, worked and traveled all over the country, and have VERY close friends who are Tibetans, Tibetan Lamas, and Tibetan Rinpoches (Living Buddhas). I have traveled and spent time there with them, living in homes and monasteries. As well, Tibetans have been sending phone messages and pics out of Tibet and Western China since these recent events, showing the true picture. In the provinces of Western China, in recent weeks, there have been MANY Tibetans who have been killed, including monks, when police open fire into crowds of peaceful protesters. My (non Tibetan) friends were in Lhasa when this started a few weeks ago and gave me first hand accounts.

The recent protests started because the police were BEATING peacefully protesting monks and that is what STARTED it all, including fifty years of repression where the Tibetan population has now been entirely overrun (4 to 1) by Chinese, etc etc etc.

This is all such sickening stuff. Unfortunately, in China, there is almost NO free information and these posters may even believe what they are saying. So I ask them - martingale and yap.chongyee - if things are as you say, WHY has youtube been blocked? Why has my own email been messed with these recent weeks? And why aren't journalists allowed in these areas (except in two 'organized' trips where 'selected' journalists were allowed to go on buses with 'Party escorts' - only to be greeted by Lamas who 'embarrassingly' spoke truths that were not sanctioned by the Chinese Government and who, in so doing, put themselves at great risk!) So again, why is there no free information flowing if things are as you say they are???

In Sichuan province, all roads west of Chengdu (leading to the Tibetan Plateau), where I have traveled and spent time, are blocked to EVERYONE. Reports via cell phone are that it is a virtual war zone.

But hey Yap's "coming out party" is more important than cultural genocide, is it not? So, yap, what color debutante gown will you be wearing? I'm sure it will be such an exciting moment for you, tears of joy and all. Undoubtedly you will be a pretty picture indeed. Proud, like a pink rooster, of your ignorance.

Mimics ! Hello ! You and that Martingale really know your stuff. Thank you very much, it is regretable that all these China bashers are so indoctrinated by western media.

It is really a mystery to me why the USA and the west want so much for China to look a poor copy of the west. Why is it that we Chinese do not want to be WESTERN. We have a civilization that is 10,000 years old, and you just cannot accept this fact and you want us to look like you and that will make you happy ! Why do you insist that we Chinese COPY western standards of human rights; we look at human rights as relative; for us human rights is a roof over our head, food on the table, education for our children, Why do you want us TO FIGHT OUR GOVERNMENT TO MAKE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE IN THE WEST, WHY ? i JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND ! We have greater priority and freedom of expression like what you have is not a big deal for us.

Why do you in the west think that we are even impressed by your clarion call for human rights in China; we have in just 20 years lifted 400 million of our poverty stricken citizens out of poverty and that is more like saying "OVERNIGHT" we achieved that amazing feat. IS THIS NOT IMPRESSIVE ENOUGH FOR YOU ? We lifted 400 million, 50 million more than there are people in the whole of the USA, in just OVERNIGHT; and you in the USA is crying JOB LOSS, EXPORTING JOBS TO INDIA AND CHINA. It was OK when all manufacturing jobs went to the USA, but now when the tables have turned you cry and bellyache.

The truth is USA lacks a spirit of competition, and your GI "Joe" are just no good as fighting soldiers. GIs can't fight ! The USA can't compete so you go and stir trouble to us law abidding civ tizens of the world. Americans from your President right down to the next BEGGAR in the USA lies in the normal course. USA move over, here is People's republic of China, ASIAN MAN ! 21st century citizen of the world.

Let me just make an addition to my previous post, in order, perhaps, to add some clarity to this issue and another thought.

The fact is, I love China and I love Chinese people. The government in China has done many good things. My daughter is half Chinese. I pay taxes to the Chinese government.
I am an American citizen and I love America and I love American people. As well, there are many people of both nationalities and many policies/actions of both governments that I disagree with and with whom and with which I will take strong issue.

The point is this: this is not about China "bashing" any more than disagreeing with George Bush makes one "unpatriotic". People everywhere have the obligation to educate themselves, however they can, and then speak up whenever and wherever injustices occur, whether at work, among friends, within the family, in their own government, or in the actions of people or governments around the world. Period.

The single biggest problem with the Pro-China / Anti-Dalai Lama / Anti-Tibet trolls here is that they can't focus on the simple idea that 'criticism is healthy'. This is excluding the rants saying the Dalai Lama is a nazi and on the payroll of the CIA. Posts like that are, thankfully, so completely ignorant and ridiculous as to be deemed…. well… nothing, just trash.

Justice is relative and that is one thing that the USA is bogged down on and think they know what is best for others. Let me cite an example :

A Muslim-English girl (one parent from eachside).She refuses to marry a much older man picked by her father in Pakistan. She runs off with her lover and the family pursues her and murdered her for disgracing her family. This is the common practice among Muslim and HONOR KILLING. All of Pakistan accepts this practice as honor killing and the police too accept this practise.

You will of course say it is an abomination and breach of human rights ! Why do you Americans and go bomb the Pakis ! What the USA wants is to rule the world but are too dumb to know that they are not that good !

Well Yap, if you think that murdering other human beings, for any reason other than that they are threatening the lives of others, is fine and ok, you pretty much show your colors.

Any family that would murder their own daughter is a "disgrace".

The problem with this issue involving China "bashing", as you assert it, is that it is not China bashing at all. That's the point my friend. You state that "Chinese do not want to be WESTERN", and therein lies the problem/predicament/irony of your position. As I have said, I have lived in China for many years and have Chinese family and EVERY day I am surrounded by Chinese people who wrap themselves in Disney, Hollywood, bluejeans, Nikes, Michael Jordan, Hip Hop/Rap music, etc, etc, and fill themselves with McDonalds and KFC (I think it is horrible and I also blame those companies – but your government KNOWS that this food is bad – sorry but it's the truth – and doesn't educate or stop it, making them complicit!).

So the real deal is this; China wants to be a player in the big sandbox of the world community now, changing the history of isolation. That is a fact. Fine, but if they want to play in the world community, there are some rules, namely, you can't have it BOTH WAYS. If you want to play with the world, YOU MUST allow the WORLD FREE ACCESS to what is going on in your country too, ala, FREEDOM OF INFORMATION.
There are WORLD STANDARDS for human rights and you just CANNOT have it BOTH WAYS YAP, sorry.

Now, before you respond (which I doubt you will anyway) remember, I am saying it is important to be HONEST about one's OWN government and people as well, always.
We, in America DO criticize our own government.

You think yours is so perfect?

I have learned from JConrad, that you support people's struggle for freedom based on how nice thay are and how well you like them. "I found them to be the kindest and most civilized people on earth."

Does this mean that if they hadn't been like that, if they had been snarly or uppity then maybe you wouldn't be supporting them and that maybe there wouldn't be so many protestors? Does this then explain why the Tibetans are a go, but the Palestinians and Kashmiris are a no?

No doubt those Uygurs, Manchus, Bai, Dai, Hui, Yi, Miao, Mongols, Naxi and the rest of the 55 recognized nationalities currently living in the PRC are also not so nice as the Tibetans.

It seems to me that if people really wanted to help the Tibetans, they would be demonstrating in favor of real democracy and freedom for all the people of China. A truly free China would be a truly wonderful thing for all the world. Why isn't that the agenda? Where are the "Free Hu Jia" signs?

but how about some real democracy and freedom for all the people of China, I mean Iraq.

4thefuture;

Very true. It seems to me that the real issue here is not whose cause we select but that we must, as citizens of the world, encourage the speaking out against all injustices and build on that.

Saying that excluding one cause, while supporting another, is somehow not right is true. However, that does not make a single injustice just.
So the defense that states that the accuser is hypocritical becomes disingenuous. It is simply an issue of short sightedness. But it is better to speak out against any injustice than none at all.

YAP.CHONGYEE

'tibetans who live in the u.s.a enjoy a lifestyle that they were ever dreamed off' well not for much longer sunshine...........when the recession/depression hits.

CANUCKCHUCK

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.............hysterical.

Here's to Tibet being the "supreme arbiter of its own destiny," as the great Irish revolutionary James Connolly said.

Those of us who consider ourselves as parts of liberatory social movements need to think hard about where we're coming from. Can we afford to be merely anti-U.S., waiting until the U.S. invades a country to defend it? Do other state powers have the right to do what the U.S. does, i.e. occupation, oppression, and suppression of dissent?

Forget the hypocrisy of our government, how European leaders can't say anything about human rights due to their own record, etc. As Catch said, "do not equate the arrogance and stupidity of the current US administration with the wishes and sentiments of the estimated 70% of the country who disagrees with their activities." People-to-people solidarity is crucial, so don't let *anyone* (state powers, or reactionary "activists") tell you that you have no right to express solidarity with other oppressed peoples.

China out of Tibet! U.S. out of Iraq and Afghanistan! Another world is possible!

China, after centuries of human rights abuses by emperors managed to shake them off, kick out all the missionaries and try and build a country worth living in. I was in Hong Kong ( New Territories ) living in a house belonging to the Bishop of Hong Kong at Shatin. Many missionaries who were thrown out of China and arrived at the Bishops residence before moving on. They all had one story and that was the terrible conditions the Chinese had to endure under Chang Kai Check (sp) who of course fled with his followers to Taiwan.

In the 60 years since the revolution China has grown and prospered to a degree no one would have forecast and be considerd sane. Revolutions are by nature rather bloody, sacrifices have to be made, big decisions and big risks are taken and China paid the Piper and has prospered.

Now of course the old guard are not happy, there's a new kid on the block and he's big and brawny and doesn't take shit from anyone, the American spy plane forced down a few years ago gave Washington a few bad nights and they've been a bit bashfull ever since.

Of course China have human rights abuses but does that compare with America and friends like Saudi Arabia, Oman and Israel, What about the human rights abuses in Zimbabwe, no invasion there to bring democracy, where is the Chinese Guantanamo Bay, apart from land stolen from China and since reposessed which country have China invaded.

Religious nutcases never look at their own failings they're too busy looking at faults in others and praying nobody notices.

lizard-
I understand your side of it but I think you and I see the Olympic Games in a different light. I see the games for what they were originally intended to be. (Without all the hype and commercialization).
True the atletes are young and some suffer from maturity issues. You must understand though how hard it is to make it to the games as a participant. It's not that you just 'run faster'. It takes dedication and hard work. I've seen a lot of the tryouts and the emotion involved. The parallel bars, floor exercise, ice skating, etc. It occupies every day for years leading up to the games. It takes so much more than being faster and having better balance. It is honing a skill to absolute perfection and facing off against another to be the best in the world. When it's over and you are standing on the center pedistal and they are playing the national anthem of your country, the feeling must be overwhelming.
What I mean by 'deserving our respect and admiration' is the blood, sweat, and tears these young people put into their event.
It's hard to see that anymore with the media hype, contracts, substance abuse alligations, and politics. The Olympics has been perverted from it's original intent and I find that a true disappointment. In any gathering of people there will be those 'bad eggs' that spew out racism or arrogance. I believe they represent a minority though.
I understand your point about racial differences and genetics. That's true. All races are allowed to participate though and although some may end up with a genetic disadvantage, the right to participate does not recognize racial differences. I find that encouraging.

pistonbroke; apparently it did.

"China, after centuries of human rights abuses by emperors managed to shake them off"? Ha! You think so? No, they just continued them under a different government.

"where is the Chinese Guantanamo Bay", you ask? There are many of them, they just contain Chinese and Tibetans, Mongolians, and others (as 4thefuture noted above) etc, not 'distant foreigners' as in Guantanamo.

Do you think that one country's wrongs make another's right? That is your only defense and it is infantile.

pistonbroke;

By the way, China has not yet "paid the piper", not by a long shot.

Tibet was never a part of China and never will be. Get over it. All these friggin China supporters have really managed to twist history to fit their world view. By the same token, Iraq was never a part of U.S. and never will be.

Its possible to be against both these occupations and still not be hypocritical, unless ofcourse you've been thoroughly indoctrinated by either Chinese or American media.

Tibet is more picturesque and romantic than Iraq, and the seat of an admired religion, Islam being in the dog-house at the moment. Plus it's big bad old China. Where are the massive waves of protests against the US government for the people of Iraq? Iraqis want us out, where are the banners for Iraqi independence?

Whateveryousay, Thank you for posting your first hand experience and for giving me perspective about Trolls. I must confess I am young and have been in shock over the charges that have been made against the Dalai Lama. I tried to get on the Free Tibet web site this morning and discovered it has been replaced with slanderous articles that discredit Tibet as a legitimate autonomous region and the Dalai Lama as a legitimate and honest spiritual being.

" It seems to me that if people really wanted to help the Tibetans, they would be demonstrating in favor of real democracy and freedom for all the people of China."

Good point. It is not possible to mention all people oppressed by the Chinese government in a few sentences. How about the genocide in Sudan ? 400,000 dead for oil to power the new Chinese status symbol, a shiny car !

China's Shameful Role in Darfur Genocide:

http://www.danbymp.com/index.php?article=124

There are many ethnic groups within the modern boundaries of China that are terribly oppressed by Han rulers who are ethnocentric (a version of cultural RACISM) and very undemocratic.

" Today, nearly two decades later, the ethnic bitterness between ruling Han Chinese and deeply Buddhist Tibetans is no less acute."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3599559.ece

It is my opinion at age 61 after living all over the world and experiencing many cultures that they all have something to offer, but the Tibetan Buddhist culture is especially important and is a philosophy that would create more harmony in the world.

In a pathetic attempt to imitate the West, China as political nation has lost most of the original cultures. They could learn a lot from the Tibetans.

And, the Olympics are from the ancient Greek democratic state. We should not make a farce of that great tradition and pretend that we can hold such ceremony and event in a fascist police state like China. China has yet to earn international legitimacy and credibility !

The Chinese are amoral capitalist materialists and the only language they understand is money. The rest of the world must BOYCOTT CHINESE COMMERCE until Tibet is free and all who live within the oppression of the Chinese state can vote !

A complete boycott is a tall order, but every little bit counts, a $Billion here or a $Billion there. Those who believes in freedom and justice should think about the effects of how they use thier money.

I did a little shopping this morning and felt very good about rejecting a Chinese product and even paying a little more for another product. I refuse to wear clothing made in China. We do have a choice.

And regardless, what do they send us but poison dog food, toxic toys, toxic toothpaste, defective prescription drugs and pollution that drifts all over the world ?

If you purchase a Chinese product you are participating in a fascist police state !

It is very strange as most of the China apologists here are repeating old Chinese state propaganda which has been around since the 60's. Rubbish !

TASHI DE LEK !

I find it sad that politics are being brought into sports. I thought the Olympic Flame was a celebration of all the world cultures interacting with one another. This is not the place for such foolishness. This "Free Tibet" business is being used to get America's mind off the war of genocide in Iraq, that hell hole called Guantanamo, not to mention our quickly eroding freedoms here at home. Of course America's Democratic and Republican politicians and office seekers have jumped on the "let's boycott the opening ceremony" bandwagon. Even Obama said that he was going to boycott the opening ceremony. America is a too much of a busy body and it needs to mind it's own business.

This from lizard - "Our human rights violations are kindergarten stuff compared to the Chinese? I strongly object and hold you in contempt. You should apologize and stop perpetuating the image of the stupid american."

Please provide me with a link to a free speech venue in mainland China comparable to CommonDreams. Please also look around and see if there is not some object within reach of where you sit that is manufactured by some wretched political prisoner in China. I'll grant that we do more damage militarily due to our sense of entitlement to barge into foreign countries and drop explosives on people. But imagine China in Iraq instead of us. There would be no debate about troop levels or prison conditions.

I also agree with whateveryousay - It is not a question of China bashing. Heterogeneous cultures all contain embedded traditions that others find odious, and it is galling to be asked to give up cherished habits like infanticide and honor killing and genital mutilation and cruel treatment of prisoners and whacking off heads and hands and napalming villages, not to mention the cannibalism and torture and systematic rape etc practiced as a matter of course by cultures and regimes all over the world. We should listen to foreign busybodies who point out that these things really are unacceptable from other perspectives, and should be amended if for no other reason than to appear less barbaric in the eyes of the wider world. We who live here in the world China wishes to join find the defensiveness and secrecy and brittleness of its leadership puzzling and unproductive considering that there are gracious and honorable ways to acknowledge criticism. We in the west have much more respect for people who can admit a fault than we have for knee jerk belligerence and denial, which we find childish in others and in ourselves.

yap.chongyee's defense of China's formidable progress in abolishing poverty, and his critique of America hypocrisy and insular blindness reveals skeletons in our own closet that we can't very well deny. But wouldn't you love to read, just someplace in his otherwise admirable Asian tirades, the admission that yes, China's human rights could use some work.

China..free Tibet
USA....free Iraq

lost my tribe;

happy to talk to you, thank you too.

It's about time some Americans see fit to protest the inhumane actions of China. More Americas should become aware of the atrocities inflicted on the Chinese by their Communist REgime. That goes for the torture practices of the CIA, the agreement of top Administrative officials such as Cheney, Rice, and Ashcroft. China does not deserve to have the olympics placed in their country because of the way they continue to violate freedom of religion, speech, and general welfare. Wonder if Bush nut will be there for the opening. He will fit right in. Olympics is not a sacred cow and I say good for the activists. It's about time.

It's amazing how many "progressives" on this site are nothing but apologists for US imperialism. They are either too obtuse or unwilling to face the facts. They dismiss out of hand the crucial support the "free" Tibet movement get from the CIA/NED and the American neoconservatives. For the Dalai Lama's American masters, the goal is not a "free" Tibet, but regime change in China through China's dismemberment. That would remove the last remaining major obstacle and clear the path for American domination of the world well into the next century.

Tibet, History and the CIA

By Gary Wilson
Published Mar 19, 2008 10:03 PM,

Original title : Tibet and the March 10 commemoration of the CIA's 1959 'uprising'

http://www.workers.org/2007/world/tibet_0327/

Has Tibet become the front line of a new national liberation struggle? Or is something else happening there?

The U.S. news media are filled with stories about events unfolding in Tibet. Each news report, however, seems to include a note that much of what they are reporting cannot be confirmed. The sources of the reports are shadowy and unknown. If past practice is any indicator, it is likely that the U.S. State Department and the CIA are their primary sources.

One frequently quoted source is John Ackerly. Who is Ackerly? As president of the International Campaign for Tibet, he and his group appear to work closely with the U.S. government, both the State Department and Congress, as part of its operations concerning Tibet. During the Cold War, Ackerly's Washington-based job was to work with "dissidents" in Eastern Europe, particularly Romania in 1978-80.

A private international security agency in Washington, Harbor Lane Associates, lists Ackerly and the International Campaign for Tibet as its clients, along with former CIA Director and U.S. President George H.W. Bush and former Pentagon chief William Cohen.

AP, Reuters and the other Western news agencies all quote Ackerly as a major source for exaggerated reports about the clashes that have just occurred in Tibet. For example, MSNBC on March 15 reported:

"John Ackerly, of the International Campaign for Tibet, a group that supports demands for Tibetan autonomy, said in an e-mailed statement he feared 'hundreds of Tibetans have been arrested and are being interrogated and tortured.'"

Qiangba Puncog

Qiangba Puncog, a Tibetan who is chair of the Tibet Autonomous Regional Government, described the situation quite differently at a March 17 press briefing in Beijing.

According to china.org.cn, China's state Web site, the Tibetan leader said that allies of the exiled Dalai Lama on March 14 "engaged in reckless beating, looting, smashing and burning and their activities soon spread to other parts of the city. These people focused on street-side shops, primary and middle schools, hospitals, banks, power and communications facilities and media organizations. They set fire to passing vehicles, they chased after and beat passengers on the street, and they launched assaults on shops, telecommunication service outlets and government buildings. Their behavior has caused severe damage to the life and property of local people, and seriously undermined law and order in Lhasa.

"'Thirteen innocent civilians were burned or stabbed to death in the riot in Lhasa on March 14, and 61 police were injured, six of them seriously wounded,' said Qiangba Puncog.

"Statistics also show that rioters set fire to more than 300 locations, including residential houses and 214 shops, and smashed and burned 56 vehicles. ...

"Qiangba Puncog also claimed that security personnel did not carry or use any lethal weapons in dealing with the riot last Friday. ...

"The violence was the result of a conspiracy between domestic and overseas groups that advocate 'Tibet independence,' according to Qiangba Puncog. 'The Dalai clique masterminded, planned and carefully organized the riot.'

"According to Qiangba Puncog, on March 10, 49 years ago, the slave owners of old Tibet launched an armed rebellion aimed at splitting the country. That rebellion was quickly quelled. Every year since 1959, some separatists inside and outside China have held activities around the day of the rebellion. ...

"Any secessionist attempt to sabotage Tibet's stability will not gain people's support and is doomed to fail, he said."

Meeting in New Delhi

Whatever is taking place in Tibet has long been in preparation. A conference was held in New Delhi, India, last June by "Friends of Tibet." It was described as a conference for the breakaway of Tibet.

The news site phayul.com reported at the time that the conference was told "how the Olympics could provide the one chance for Tibetans to come out and protest." A call was issued for worldwide protests, a march of exiles from India to Tibet, and protests within Tibet--all tied to the upcoming Beijing Olympics.

This was followed by a call this past January for an "uprising" in Tibet, issued by organizations based in India. The news report from Jan. 25 said that the "Tibetan People's Uprising Movement" was established Jan. 4 to focus on the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The beginning date for the "uprising" was to be March 10.

At the time the call was issued, U.S. Ambassador to India David Mulford was meeting with the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, India. U.S. Undersecretary of State Paula Dobriansky made a similar visit to Dharamsala last November. Dobriansky is also a member of the neocon Project for a New American Century. She has been involved in the so-called color revolutions in Eastern Europe.
Phayul.com reports that the Tibet "Uprising" group's statement says they are acting "in the spirit of the 1959 Uprising."

The 1959 uprising

Knowing more about the 1959 "uprising" might help in understanding today's events in Tibet.
In 2002 a book titled "The CIA's Secret War in Tibet" was published by the University Press of Kansas. The two authors--Kenneth Conboy of the Heritage Foundation and James Morrison, an Army veteran trainer for the CIA--proudly detail how the CIA set up and ran Tibet's so-called resistance movement. The Dalai Lama himself was on the CIA payroll and approved the CIA's plans for the armed uprising.

The CIA put the Dalai Lama's brother, Gyalo Thodup, in charge of the bloody 1959 armed attack. A contra army was trained by the CIA in Colorado and then dropped by U.S. Air Force planes into Tibet.

The 1959 attack was a CIA planned and organized coup attempt, much like the later Bay of Pigs invasion of socialist Cuba. The purpose was to overthrow the existing Tibetan government and weaken the Chinese Revolution while tying the people of Tibet to U.S. imperialist interests. What does that say about today's March uprising, that's done in the same spirit?

martingale;

Sorry, you just don't seem to get it.

Of course "china.org.cn, China's state Web site" says what it says, that is the point of much of this discussion, that the 'news' in China is ALL state run and NEVER tells the whole truth about controversial topics involving China. I have seen 'live news feeds' 'edited' prior to broadcast in order to REMOVE any mention of China's involvement in controversial international matters, the result of which gives the people of China the impression that only other nations were involved in things that China was also involved in. I have seen it in person while working at a State run broadcast station.

That's the point, the news in China is almost always bullshit.

In terms of "Qiangba Puncog, a Tibetan who is chair of the Tibet Autonomous Regional Government", he is chair of the PRC, in Tibet, whatever name they give it. The PRC is the ONLY government in Tibet.

Yes, it was all over the news in China that neither the sweet and loving People's Liberation Army nor the police fired a single shot! Except a few days later, they grudgingly 'admitted' that, oh, well "yes", they "did" fire a shot or two after all. Laughable.

So I ask you AGAIN, why are you not blogging about controversial subjects on websites in China? Hint; they don't exist! Why are you not watching the videos showing things different from what you claim on youtube? Hint; because they are blocked!

There is a habit in China, deeply rooted, that goes like this; If you say something loudly enough, with enough authority, like a bully, that makes it true. This is so common in China, I see it everyday.

As voxclamantis said, wouldn't it be great if martingale or yap.chongyee could at least ONCE say something critical of China, as we Americans do about America. It would make your attempts at criticizing others seem more honest perhaps.

For all the commondreams readers, the truth is that most Chinese people DO know that the news is not the full truth. They just aren't aware of the true extent of it.

Anyway, I'm outta here, peace.

just a clarification on my last post. PRC refers to People's Republic of China, obviously, and is sometimes used in reference to the government, as I did, slightly incorrectly. for the sake of accuracy, CPC refers to the communist party of china, correctly. so, technically,
Qiangba Puncog is head of the CPC, not the PRC, although they are often used somewhat synonymously.

hey whateveryousay, you are all bullshit ! You are some kinda of cank and you do not accept that media in the west too write a lot of crap ! Even for story that relates to this Tibetan riot, the BBC CNN to mention the biggest lot of bullshiters FABRICATED THEIR "EVIDENCE", it is not my take that says that but is the personal report of one Miles.... reporter for the British Economist (his name is mentioned in one of the blogg. of this issue on CD).

I now remember Mr Martingale, I read his occasional blogg. on our Chinese website called "sinopolitics.com" now defunct because the blogger has better things to do. Anyway if Mr Martibgale is my comrade of sinopolitics, then I say HELLO MATE ! So much for chit chat !

Except for a few knowlegeable posters here, most of you are mere run of the mill RED-NECK", you will all feel very comfortable having a great time LYNCHING THEM NIGGERS BACK HOME. Gentlemen (USA) America is the only nation that had derived the greatest pleasure from Lynching Niggers, and in those frontier days, you white Americans had the most enjoyable times raiding and raping Red Indians swquars. Do you deny that not just 30 years ago, in the days of Martin Luther King, YOU AMERICANS ENJOYED A GAME OF LYNCHING THEM NIGGERS ? Those like Jesse Jackson LIVED IN THOSE DAYS, and how long ago was that ? I remember in my childhood days reading those USA enjoyable games called lynching them Nigger Bastards; and just for the fun of it.

HOW CIVILIZED WAS THAT ? It was a National past time; you bloody well enjoyed this form of animal behaviour ! Do you even remember those days when you enjoyed a game of HUNTING CHINA AND SHOOTING THEM FOR GAME ? The USA was just LAWLESS WHEN IT COMES TO NIGGERS & CHINA MEN. WHY ? And now a mere 25 years since you lynched a Nigger, you want to play the MEN OF HIGH MORAL; ALL THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, how do you even sleep knowing that it was a grand past time for you White American to go hunting for China men TO BLOODY SHOOT FOR SPORT ! Is that human rights ? Will you deny that is has been but a mere 20 years ago.

The truth about all your criticisms is to divert attention from the ugly turn of events in Iraq and Afghanistan, where you Americans thought you could walk all over a 3rd world nation and do like what you had done in all of your USA history, just go out and blast the rag heads into the STONE AGE; but as it turns out it is the Iraqis that found fighting you Americans "a piece of cake". Yah ! you Americans are CARTOON SOLDIERS, you are all make believe. Too much Hollywood ! The USA is not for real, MAN !

The simple and democratic answer too the debate on Tibet it too allow all Tibetans to vote on the Chinese occupation.

And then all others living within the Han police state called "China" should be allowed to vote on their future and freedom.

yap.chongyee -

You are truly wonderful. Your posts are a positive blessing, without which this site would die of consensus. But come on man... just try this out to see if you can do it. Say: "China's human rights could use some work." It will only take a second, and it will not cause your teeth to fall out. You will gain hundreds of listeners to your rant and acquire the power of many dragons..

Greetings Mr. Yap.chongyee. This is the same martingale that you speak of. Glad to see that you are still fighting the good fight.

JConrad wrote:

"The simple and democratic answer too the debate on Tibet it too allow all Tibetans to vote on the Chinese occupation."

The hypocracy and smugness of this statement is nausiating. First of all, Tibet is part of China as recognized by EVERY country in the world so what occupation are you talking about? Is Tibet in the UN as a soveriegn country? Please name me a single country that recognizes the Tibet government in exile as the legitimate government of Tibet.

Given that, I'll make you a deal. If you allow native Americans the right to vote if they can kick all the white Europeans occupying the North American continent back to Europe, then I'll agree to a vote in Tibet. Do you agree to that? What's the matter -- afraid the genocide perpetrated by the white man on the native population of this continent might not have been appreciated? I think you better start packing your bags because I think I know how the vote will come out.