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Rolling Back History
Joe Lieberman's smears against the American left for not supporting the Iraq war fail to recognise the true record of the Democratic party
Like a pestilential raccoon who keeps figuring out how to get into your garbage at night even after you've tied down the lids, Joe Lieberman emerges anew every so often to knock over liberals and remind us of his moral superiority.
This time he appeared on This Week with George Stephanopoulos on Sunday and sniffed:
"Well, I say that the Democratic party changed. The Democratic party today was not the party it was in 2000. It's not the Bill Clinton-Al Gore party, which was strong internationalists, strong on defence, pro-trade, pro-reform in our domestic government. It's been effectively taken over by a small group on the left of the party that is protectionist, isolationist and basically will - and very, very hyperpartisan. So it pains me."
Several bloggers have commented. Michael Scherer at Time says Holy Joe is full of buncombe. Reihan Salam, a talented conservative blogger, counters that liberals should be happy that Lieberman thinks this: "Correct me if I'm wrong," he writes, "but isn't [Lieberman's observation] a commonplace observation on the left - indeed, don't many liberals see this broad trend as a very good thing?" And Ross Douthat at the Atlantic, another talented conservative blogger, echoes Salam and adds that the American political middle often finds itself aggravated by too much enthusiasm on the extremes, either left or right.
Everyone has a point here, but no one quite gets to the heart of the matter, which is the fallacy (historical, philosophical, moral; you name it) at the heart of Lieberman's argument. When you get right down to it, Lieberman thinks the Democratic party is girly-mannish because its leaders and rank-and-file members did not and today do not support the Iraq war fully or strongly enough. And more, that today's Democrats are betraying their history, a history he specifically associates with Harry Truman and Jack Kennedy.
But Lieberman just doesn't know what he's talking about. Or worse, I think he knows exactly what he's talking about but is lying anyway.
There is nothing in the historical record - nothing - to suggest that Harry Truman or his major advisers would ever have supported something like a pre-emptive war against a country that wasn't a direct threat to the United States or to the west. Indeed there is a mountain of evidence suggesting the contrary. The neocons of the day, whose goal was not containment of communism (Truman's policy) but "rollback", as it was called, wanted Truman to move into China as the Korean war was wrapping up. Truman did not. There are quotes from him and from Dean Acheson, his secretary of state at the time, saying that the rollbackers were basically out of their gourds. They were tempting nuclear confrontation with "Red" China.
And there is certainly no evidence that the Truman administration would have ginned up intelligence and lied the country into war. The closest they came to something like this was the manner in which Acheson got Senate foreign relations committee chairman Arthur Vandenburg to sign on to the Truman Doctrine, based on Soviet threats to western positions in the Dardanelles. Acheson amped up the rhetoric all right ("clearer than truth" was the famous phrase), but he did not tell the American people a lie about the Soviet posture.
There is no doubt, though, that Lieberman participated in and, at the very least, led cheers for lies told to the American people. And is there much doubt that vis-à-vis China, Lieberman would have been a rollbacker? I think there's very little.
Kennedy is slightly more complicated case. In Cuba (at the Bay of Pigs), he did indeed undertake a pre-emptive action, although obviously on a far, far smaller scale than Iraq. And he meddled around in the Congo (now Zaire), although always in consultation -actual consultation, not fake Bush-administration style consultation - with Britain, France Belgium and the UN.
But of course those moves, especially the Bay of Pigs, were disasters, not something for Democrats today to emulate. And Kennedy, too, never undertook anything like the Iraq war. When the pressure was really on him, and several people around him were urging that he take the country into nuclear combat with the Soviets during the Cuban missile crisis (including an older Acheson, now a raving hardliner in his dotage), he resisted them.
What would Lieberman have advised Kennedy to do? We can't know.
But we do know this simple truth: Joe Lieberman is a neocon. What he urges and advocates with regard to foreign policy today has nothing whatsoever to do with the positive traditions of the Democratic party.
The canard that equates support for the Iraq war with "toughness" is a piece of intellectual casuistry and corruption without parallel in our times. And Lieberman, certainly more than any Democrat and possibly more than any other American politician save the president and Lieberman's inamorata John McCain, is at the core of it. He just cannot be allowed to keep saying it.
Michael Tomasky is editor of Guardian America.
© Guardian News and Media Limited 2008
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47 Comments so far
Show AllI'd like to point out another issue hiding in between the lines of this article. This part here:
"... And Ross Douthat at the Atlantic, another talented conservative blogger, echoes Salam and adds that the American political middle often finds itself aggravated by too much enthusiasm on the extremes, either left or right."
The middle is aggravated? Like the "middle" is the valid political spot on the continuum? Just what is this "middle?" The American political center has been dragged so far to the right over the last 25 years, Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan are throwing a grande party in whatever after life they find themselves in (I really don't know as I think their version of heaven would certainly be my hell.)
Now let's see... who's responsible for that? Well, the most conservative Republican president in recent memory, certainly.
Bill Clinton.
Can't we just sum up "neo-con" as Israel first? Lieberman is a disgrace and should renounce his US citizenship and move to Israel where he belongs.
I agree Kristina40, deport Lieberman, that neocon quisling scumbag!
This article misses the point entirely. Joe doesn't represent Democrats, or Independents, or even Republicans. If the Kadima Party had a US affiliate, Joe, along with too many other senators, would be a member. He serves the interests of Israelis, not Americans--two divergent interests that can never be reconciled. How many innocents will have to die before American voters start connecting the dots?
Joe Lieberman, a jew, worked hard to disenfranchise two Connecticut Indian Tribes that had been recognized since the time of the Colonies. He succeeded. A jew supporting genocide. Joe Lieberman is dirt to me.
Like a pestilential raccoon who keeps figuring out how to get into your garbage at night even after you've tied down the lids,
**raccoons are great
humans arent.
I give raccoons peanuts, cookies, grapes...
hours of entertainment watching them.
cant say the same for Lieberman.
Don't ever again degrade raccoons by comparing them to a pestilential Lieberman
Then, how comparing Lieberman to a dangerous rabid racoon? I see too many of those critters out in daylight, acting strangely.
Isn't Lieberman the "independent" who caucuses with Democrats in the Senate? Giving Democrats their fragile
"majority" over the real neocons there, the Republicans? Ain't that worth something amidst all this bashing?
It's true that Al Gore picked a horrible choice for running mate in 2000---and may have lost the government for us liberals as a result---but that was Al's own bad call.
Lieberman is not running this time. Our job is to elect
Obama and a stronger Democratic majority in the Senate that will reduce the "importance" of both Joe Lieberman and his views publicly expressed.
Bashing is unnecessary. Electoral victory is critical.
Lieberman also betrays an inelegance of thought in deciding that an unnecessary war that has degraded America's military, lost 4,000+, killed [insert huge figure here] Iraqis, and cost America $500 billion with the meter running, was actually patriotic.
Sorry, but getting troops killed, murdering civilians and wasting money, for no benefit is not patriotic.
Liberman is a wise old political whore who has been pimping himself in D.C. for decades. He's like a professional wrestler who can change his gimmick from time to time. For 'the good of the country' was removed from his thought process the first time he money for his services. And just like a good whore he will smile and pretend he likes the fucking he is giving the country.
Hoa binh
Lieberman aside, Tomasky makes the tendentious argument that Truman/Kennedy were somehow "moderate" in their foreign policy. I don't buy it, not in terms of Greece, Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, etc. The neocons and Lieberman are slightly juiced up versions of Truman/Kennedy/Johnson/Clinton. I'll leave Carter aside for good behavior since his presidency.
And Kennedy, too, never undertook anything like the Iraq war. When the pressure was really on him, and several people around him were urging that he take the country into nuclear combat with the Soviets during the Cuban missile crisis (including an older Acheson, now a raving hardliner in his dotage), he resisted them.
Having just finished Thirteen Days, by Robert Kennedy, I can say that Sen. Lieberman's comparison in that same show between JFK and McCain is bullshit. President Kennedy (admittedly as detailed in a memoir written by his brother) showed admirable restraint and demanded input from as many points of view as possible.
Had either Bush or McCain been in the same situation, especially with the notification of the shootdown of a U-2 over Cuba that (I believe) Saturday, I don't think America would have survived the weekend.
Joe is an unctuous, weaselly disgrace to the human race.
"Isn't Lieberman the 'independent' who caucuses with Democrats in the Senate? Giving Democrats their fragile
'majority' over the real neocons there, the Republicans? Ain't that worth something amidst all this bashing?"
-Daniel David April 2nd, 2008 12:31 pm
_________________________
Many Democrats, Joe among them, support neocon warmongering, so what good is the Democrats' precious majority? Joe and his fellow Israel-firsters spearheaded the destruction of Iraq and facilitated the murder of a million innocent Iraqis. He'll never rest until the US is at war with Iran, entailing the murder of countless more victims, all to further the expansion of Zionist apartheid in the ME. To answer your question: the fact that Lieberman caucuses with Democrats is worth nothing.
Besides, who's bashing him? We're just stating facts that should be obvious to anyone with an IQ over 70. Joe belongs in the Knesset or in jail, not in the US Senate. Time for a little "glasnost" here in the US.
When did being against illegal invasions and occupations that kill and maim millions of innocents based on thousands of blatant lies repeated thousands of times become an "extreme left" position?
When did being against deploying American troops to over 700 bases in over 100 countries for no other reason than the control of other peoples' resources become an "extreme left" position?
When did being against the loss of millions of jobs, the theft of at least 3 generations of wealth, and the near total evisceration of the Constitution and Bill of Rights become "extreme left" positions?
We progressive really need to form a Reframing Strike Force that can fan out and smash the propaganda the moment it leaves some lying motherf**ker's lips...
There's a common historical misconception here that need clearing up...
JFK did NOT order the Bay of Pigs attack. That was a CIA operation that went ahead without presidential approval. I do know that JFK took responsibility for the fiasco in a speech after the fact, but that's because he was an honorable man and for the good of the country, covered up the truth. After the Bay of Pigs thing, he quietly fired the top 3 men in the CIA. Also, he instructed J. Edgar Hoover's FBI to investigate, as he called them, the "Misguided Cuban Radicals" that were being trained by the CIA in Florida. He ordered the FBI to shut down the CIA run camps, making some serious enemies in the process.
re elmysterio 2:47pm
thanks for the reminder. the bay of pigs was nixon's baby, hatched when he was eisenhower's vp and expecting to succeed ike in office. but with the help of his dad and chicago mayor daley, kennedy squeaked into the white house. at that point, it appears the cia decided to present the op to kennedy as a fait accompli. to his everlasting credit, jfk pulled the plug, but reaped the whirlwind.
it's also worth noting that lee oswald, at least according to carl oglesby's "the yankee and cowboy war," was an office of naval intelligence undercover reporting to jfk on the anti-castro types in florida and louisiana.
Lieberman SUCKS! He'd be happy to sacrifice anybody's children to his and Israel's delusions about themselves....A "shrivelled ghoul" as somebody said recently, hanging off McCain's arm and helping the senile empire onward yet another generation of righteous bloodshed...."Joe-mentum" is what you feel as you fall down that big drop on a roller-coaster...
I am proud to oppose the illegal, unprovoked, immoral war of aggression against the people of Iraq, and all true progressives should be as well. It is cruelly ironic that Joe Lieberman, such a staunch Israel supporter, also supports what the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials termed "the supreme international crime" for which Hitler's generals were justifiably convicted and hanged. Bush, Cheney, and all their cronies and enablers, including Lieberman, are as guilty of that war crime, among others, and should be imprisoned for life.
If all the Titanic had to worry about was the tip of the iceberg there would have been no disaster. Joe Lieberman represents the tip of an iceberg that may bring disaster to our nation. The iceberg is Israel, the only country that is also a religion. Review the Bush administration staffing. A collection of neocons and Zionists, with a common goal, advising a president of questionable intelligence and integrity. Israel has an agenda in the mid-east and that is to use American resources and manpower (killed and wounded) for it's continued security. Watch for a manufactured excuse to wage aerial warfare against Iran. Deja Vue.
Joe Lieberman is a neocon of convenience. Like all pure Jews he is automatically a citizen of Israel. There is no doubt where his loyalties lie. He could have very easily been a crewmember of one of the Israeli boats that attacked the USS Liberty in 1967. (Speak of biting the hand that feeds you.) Years and years of investigations into that incident absolved Israel of wrongdoing. Our purchased and cowed legislators took the word of Israel over that of the crew of the USS Liberty. What is so sad in this scenario is that the various Zionists organizations in this country are so powerful that moderate, loyal, patriotic Jews are so cowed they will not speak up. It is in that atmosphere that a shit-head like Joe Lieberman can function. Why the state of Connecticut tolerates him is beyond me. Come on Connecticut, your still part of the Union. If you allow Senator Lieberman to have his way you will find yourselves annexed to Israel.
Ostrogoth,
What the "Democrats precious majority" in the Senate is good for is control of the agenda there, including all public hearings, all procedural matters, and all Bush appointees that require confirmation in his last two years.
Lieberman's affiliation with Democrats, even though he thinks more like Republicans on war, makes that possible.
I don't agree with Lieberman, but what we elect in November is far more important than tirades against some guy who isn't running for anything.
I voted for Sen. Lieberman along with VP Gore in 2000, but since then, the Sen. has been a major disappointment. I believe he represents not CT but what appears to be our 51st state, Israel, and indeed it's far right
which rules there now. If he had been a gentleman (aren't I quaint?) and a true Democrat, he would have bowed out when Ned Lamont beat him in the 2006 primary. I find unconscionable his support of this outrageous war, his numerous rose-garden appearances with Bush, and his turning his back on the Democrats with his support of McCain.
I truly hope Ned Lamont will run again and run Lieberman out of the Senate.
Daniel David posits "What the "Democrats precious majority" in the Senate is good for is control of the agenda there," as if this were of any use. The Democrat agenda has granted Bush everything he's demanded so far, and nothing on the horizon---not even the still far-off elections---indicates the slightest course correction.
Everything to teach and nothing to learn...
This article is preposterous. After World War II, the Democrats typically were more hawkish than the Republicans. Vietnam and Korea were wars the Democrats got the US into, and the Republicans exited. If Republicans wanted to assert their diplomatic credentials, they could point to Nixon going to China and Reagan embracing Gorbachev. The Democrats would mostly focus on fairly ineffective agreements in the Middle East. More recently, the Democrats have more vigorously pursued the theory of 'humanitarian intervention' than the Republicans, which relegitimizes military action. There was virtually no Democratic dissent from the invasion of Afghanistan. Many, including, of course, Senator Clinton, supported the war in Iraq. Nor has the Democratic Senate done much to oppose the continued occupation of Iraq (and Tomasky has elsewhere praised this non-action). Lieberman's belief that the Democratic party has abandoned war greatly exaggerates the impact of the progressive wing of the Democratic party (nor is it clear that that wing in fact opposes militarism--Tomasky himself being an excellent example of a liberal hawk). "It's been effectively taken over by a small group on the left of the party that is protectionist, isolationist and basically will - and very, very hyperpartisan." If only!
As I recall Leibushman was about to be run out of town on a rail last time he ran for office he LOST in the primary . Then he got a little outside help .That's how he became an independent.
For those of you that are a little slow at learning Neocons come in all colors and genders.
Here's a little research info. on the Bay of Pigs and more:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-223865000828471342
Obama's political mentor? Joe Lieberman.
It is wrong to think of Lieberman as a neocon, he should be seen for what he is, a worker for Israel. The most important fact about him is that he is jewish.
Name one jew in the government who doesn't support Israel. Most congressmen are on the Israeli payroll. Almost all jews support Israel.
Another point about Truman, he would not, did not do the bidding of the UK when he was asked to have the US to take the lead in the coup against Mossadegh of Iran. The dirty deed was done when Eisenhower took office and it was funded by, engineered by, organized by the CIA with the neo-con Dulles brothers in charge. We are still paying for this illegal intervention.
Though I swore that I wouldn't respond to DD there has to be some clarification to his statments!!!
1-Obama came to ct to support the war candidate Jew LIEberman in his race against Ned Lamont the anti war candidate in 06 for the Democratic primary. GET THAT DELUSIONAL DEMOCRATS !!!!!!!!!
2 -JEW LIEberman was the choice of Al Gore in 2000 for VP it was LIEberman that told Gore not to send Jesse Jackson down to Fl.LIEberman probably whispered into Gores ear that if he didn't throw the 2000 election he would be toast and then LIEberman would pe the president so fearless Al abdicated.
3 -As horrible as Bush is it would have been true torture to have hadf to listen to the speaches of Gore or LIEberman for 4 years,it would have been a torture worse than anything that they could have dreamed up at Abu Grave !!!!!!
Little jewish joey is probably the most powerful senator and he knows it and the dems know it. "Give me what I want or I'll go over to the other side and hand the power to cheney.
News flash, he's already on the other side and cheney is still powerful.
neo-con is dbl.speak the proper term would be neo-liberal.
Just like The New World Order is the same old "divide and conquer" of The Old World Order.
Look at the back of a dollar bill.On the back the Latin words above and below the All Seeing Eye read:
Enterprise Success
New Order World
There are people running the world now and it would appear that there are many Democrats and Republicans helping them do it.
Look at Howard Zinn's Article the ruling "elite" have got the good old USofA-holes by the short hairs.
I am ashamed his is my senator.
Watch for McCain/Lieberman...
johnco , you read my mind.
i was picking up the mccain/lieberman ticket vibe from their important middle eastern trip last week, the one where lieberman politely enlightened mccain as to the differences b/w shiites and sunnis in iraq.
mccain/lieberman would grab many hillary supporters in a general election against obama. lieberman's recent foray w/ graham and mccain across the middle east coupled w/ the stephanopoulos quote above sums it up (remember the 3am phone ad).
this summer echoes will be heard from people musing in the shower 'mccains not so bad - he's running with joe' . white working class households across america will become reacquainted with ronald reagan's (an old dead friend of johns) morning in america take 2, staring the battle tested warrior john mccain, costarring the king of family values joe lieberman -- who could also run with hillary (i mean bill) if he changes his mind.
the next four years, wow...
...peace...
I'll bet he gets his 81 billion dollar submarine.
Please folks, tone done the Jew and Isreal rhetoric.
Not all Jews support Isreali foreign policy. Not all Isrealis support their governments foreign policy.
Joe Lieberman is not a Jew. Joe Lieberman is a Zionist.
Thank you danielnolan. Some of the blogs on here are starting sound like the Arayan Nation.
Joe Lieberman is a power hungry, amoral neo-con enabler. I completely disagree with the policies of Israel toward the Palestinians, the Lebanese, the Iranians etc.
There is a large Isreali peace movement and many people from Jewish backgrounds like Howard Zinn, Finklestein, Amy Goodman who are trying to educate people about what is really going on in Israel.
Unfortunately, many Jewish people, who are otherwise very progressive in their views, allow themselves to be brainwashed by APAC. I had example of this with a friend of mine, he supported Kucinich, was against the war in Iraq, etc. but when I brought up the subject of Israel, suddenly his eyes glazed over with fear and he started mumbling that any compromise would result in the destruction of Israel.
Sadly, it is exactly the opposite, the refusal of Israel to recognize the rights of the Palestian people is not only doing terrible harm to the Palestinians, it is completely undermining the survival of Isreal itself, just as US empire building is undermining the US. The policies of the US and Isreali government profit the few while harming the many.
lizard April 2nd, 2008 6:34 pm
"Name one jew in the government who doesn't support Israel. Most congressmen are on the Israeli payroll. Almost all jews support Israel."
I'm not sure all Jews in government support Israel, but even if they did, it doesn't mean that they all support Israel over US policy. Now, the ones who do, I have a big problem with.
obmaj,
Good post.
It behooves the Likudniks to realize that their actions against Palestinians and Arab neighbors are hurting Jews around the world, as is evident right here.
This has gotten ugly. Before you make assumptions, I've probably been anti-Zionist longer than most of you have been alive. But much of this is absolutely anti-Semitic. All this talk about the Jews? Please! There is nothing political about much of this discussion. It's simply blame the Jews.
skivanoski, danielnolan, obmaj,
Exactly. You guys are on the mark.
It is Zionism that's the issue and problem. Unless you want to be considered a racist, stop condemning an entire people. That's racism, folks.
OK - this is as good a place as any to pull out my old proposal - I'd like to hear Lieberman's reaction - in exchange for Israel's return of lands occupied after the 1967 war, and compensation for those who arguably have a right of return to homes/lands their families abandoned in 1948 - Israel is admitted to NATO and the EU, and Palestine is given the opportunity to do likewise upon recognition of Israel's right to exist.
I am often saddened by the policies of the Israeli Government and the seemingly blind support Americans Jews have extended to that government. But then I read posts like lizard's and kc's, dripping with naked racism and hatred and I see why Jews might be sceptical about the good will of the so-called peace movement.
racom40 said: "organized by the CIA with the neo-con Dulles brothers in charge."
A more correct description of Dulles would be closet nazi.
blairza: I think by the behavior of the Jews from a historical standpoint, some moderate dislike is in order.