USA 2008: The Great Depression
Food stamps are the symbol of poverty in the US. In the era of the credit crunch, a record 28 million Americans are now relying on them to survive a sure sign the world's richest country faces economic crisis
We knew things were bad on Wall Street, but on Main Street it may be worse. Startling official statistics show that as a new economic recession stalks the United States, a record number of Americans will shortly be depending on food stamps just to feed themselves and their families.
Dismal projections by the Congressional Budget Office in Washington suggest that in the fiscal year starting in October, 28 million people in the US will be using government food stamps to buy essential groceries, the highest level since the food assistance programme was introduced in the 1960s.
The increase - from 26.5 million in 2007 - is due partly to recent efforts to increase public awareness of the programme and also a switch from paper coupons to electronic debit cards. But above all it is the pressures being exerted on ordinary Americans by an economy that is suddenly beset by troubles. Housing foreclosures, accelerating jobs losses and fast-rising prices all add to the squeeze.
Emblematic of the downturn until now has been the parades of houses seized in foreclosure all across the country, and myriad families separated from their homes. But now the crisis is starting to hit the country in its gut. Getting food on the table is a challenge many Americans are finding harder to meet. As a barometer of the country's economic health, food stamp usage may not be perfect, but can certainly tell a story.
Michigan has been in its own mini-recession for years as its collapsing industrial base, particularly in the car industry, has cast more and more out of work. Now, one in eight residents of the state is on food stamps, double the level in 2000. "We have seen a dramatic increase in recent years, but we have also seen it climbing more in recent months," Maureen Sorbet, a spokeswoman for Michigan's programme, said. "It's been increasing steadily. Without the programme, some families and kids would be going without."
But the trend is not restricted to the rust-belt regions. Forty states are reporting increases in applications for the stamps, actually electronic cards that are filled automatically once a month by the government and are swiped by shoppers at the till, in the 12 months from December 2006. At least six states, including Florida, Arizona and Maryland, have had a 10 per cent increase in the past year.
In Rhode Island, the segment of the population on food stamps has risen by 18 per cent in two years. The food programme started 40 years ago when hunger was still a daily fact of life for many Americans. The recent switch from paper coupons to the plastic card system has helped remove some of the stigma associated with the food stamp programme. The card can be swiped as easily as a bank debit card. To qualify for the cards, Americans do not have to be exactly on the breadline. The programme is available to people whose earnings are just above the official poverty line. For Hubert Liepnieks, the card is a lifeline he could never afford to lose. Just out of prison, he sleeps in overnight shelters in Manhattan and uses the card at a Morgan Williams supermarket on East 23rd Street. Yesterday, he and his fiancée, Christine Schultz, who is in a wheelchair, shared one banana and a cup of coffee bought with the 82 cents left on it.
"They should be refilling it in the next three or four days," Liepnieks says. At times, he admits, he and friends bargain with owners of the smaller grocery shops to trade the value of their cards for cash, although it is illegal. "It can be done. I get $7 back on $10."
Richard Enright, the manager at this Morgan Williams, says the numbers of customers on food stamps has been steady but he expects that to rise soon. "In this location, it's still mostly old people and people who have retired from city jobs on stamps," he says. Food stamp money was designed to supplement what people could buy rather than covering all the costs of a family's groceries. But the problem now, Mr Enright says, is that soaring prices are squeezing the value of the benefits.
"Last St Patrick's Day, we were selling Irish soda bread for $1.99. This year it was $2.99. Prices are just spiralling up, because of the cost of gas trucking the food into the city and because of commodity prices. People complain, but I tell them it's not my fault everything is more expensive."
The US Department of Agriculture says the cost of feeding a low-income family of four has risen 6 per cent in 12 months. "The amount of food stamps per household hasn't gone up with the food costs," says Dayna Ballantyne, who runs a food bank in Des Moines, Iowa. "Our clients are finding they aren't able to purchase food like they used to."
And the next monthly job numbers, to be released this Friday, are likely to show 50,000 more jobs were lost nationwide in March, and the unemployment rate is up to perhaps 5 per cent.
© 2008 The Independent
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91 Comments so far
Show AllBeing a half-wit, it only took me half as long to get scared ~Tweety~.
You people have scared the wits out of me.
Revolution
dvorah,
Welcome. I'm glad you're here.
t
"What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss!!!!", Cheney vituperates.
Bush looks around, sees a window disguise, licks the chocolate mint on his upper lip, catches sight of Tick-Tock, and begins to reask the question over and over in his thoughts... lost in a coin... the coin...
"The coin...?"
I beg to differ, Kem I'm on top of surveillance! MWHAHAHA! Hee-hehehe!
Well, golly, if that's true Kem and you are truly a blood relative of Thomas Paine that's swell, and Emerson...ah, man, his words do often find their way into my collections and my thinking, and I am inspired by them sometimes to pEnn a pithy phrase or two. If this is true then I'm amazed and honored to be in such company. I salute you who carry on the traditions of such true heroes of humanity, liberty and freedom.
I hope like hell we make a difference that's worth a damn.
You are under surviellance ~ENN~, so is ~Jim~.
~RIVERMAN~ is the CD editor, but he's currently undergoing mental rehab and the computer soft ware he wrote is doing the dirty work. ___ NO LOGIC.
I'm a blood relative of Thomas Paine ~Anne~
and a forth cousin of Hershey, and a forth cousin of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Met Willian J. Clinton once in 1975 and we chatted for about an hour, he was a swell guy. I was a page for Harry S Truman at the 1948 Demo Convention in Philly. General Lemay once spoke to me and I sat on the lap of Vaughn Monroe's wife once at a dance at Pleasant Lake, Michigan, and once drove a tour bus for James Brown. Don't know any others of importance or the editors of CD.
But I fear they know me, by now.
These are not the Dumb Deal years, though it's a good shot. These are the Years of Burden, and this is the Age of Burdens.
The Age of Burdens was created last Century and in the tail end of the 19th. It started with the Industrial Age.
The Burdens are now coming home to roost and there will be an adjustment of power on a scale we've never seen before.
The smart ones are shucking off the system and developing alternatives, they're not waiting, they're localizing, and building up community ties and bonds.
But America is due for a humbling and it's not coming with a bang, but with the same steady pace of erosion that characterizes the loss of American ideals over the last couple of hundred years, but most particularly over the last 40.
At a time when other Duperpowers are on the rise repeating the same errors with complete disregard for what is happening to the largest Duperpower it is most worrisome. America went off the rails and now those America victimized under the guise of exploitation-clothed-in-peace-and-friendship are poised and their ideologies, while not so different from America's professed ideology, are waiting.
America's failure to curb its lust for power, has lead to its corruption at the time we needed America's ideals the most, they are failing. The bright shine of Reconstructive Generosity has faded exposed now as a new corrupt capitalistic consumption-driven tool just as the words of the oath of a precedent [sic] who fumbled his watch have lost their value. The sun of the West is setting, the stars fading from the stripes that once made all so proud, and in the East, the balls of brutal fire rising.
Ironic that the symbol of debt, the swipe-me, should be adopted as a means of feeding those no longer able to find meaningful work, or pay the exorbitant price of food replaced by fuel.
Welcome to the End of Daze.
Kem,
They allowed your post to contain the dirty word because it was enclosed in quotes - remember this is automated machine-moderation and it is looking for a specific string of characters so this works too: GeneralStrike
Kem Patrick, you crack me up! I've been "moderated" at least once on CD, have no idea why. But I use the f- word far too often (and I'm very ashamed of that fact; I promise to try to do better) and don't get moderated for that. But Kem, you're the teflon guy, because you correctly spelled the GS words and were able to post. So, who do you know, anyway?
Urthsong, on a more serious note, I just want to say that I'm very sorry about your husband. It's been 9 years, but I'm sure the pain is still very real for you. So sorry for your loss.
Well, looks like it's time to finally kick the dirt over the fabled 'American Dream.' I moved to the city ten years ago because of jobs and they just shipped mine to Mexico where they work for 6.50 a day. I'm moving me and mine back to the country where we can grow it, hunt it, kill it and catch it. I'm keeping my powder, patch and ball dry and Rep. Jane Harman can kiss my ass. Good Luck, citizens.
Nun att al.
how aoubt taht KEM? it wnot mkae any dffirenece to you...........
now we'll all hvae to tpye in cdoe. we can wirte wtih the sepllnig msseded aournd and the cmoptuer wnot be albe to cnesor our psots. so we can use the gnearal sitkre wrods wthoiut faer.............and the fcku wrods too.
I don't spel most words correctely.
Lets see, ____"GENERAL STRIKE" ___, or the Green flu bug and nobody, except those who are in jobs of humane areas go to work for a week and nobody buys anthng at all that week except for emergency items such as medicines or health needs. Then have Walter Cronkite address Congress and give them a list of our greviences, startig with restoring the Constitution, habeus corpus and ending the Iaqi occupation.
In recent years, I've been growing virtually all my own vegetables. The exceptions are fresh ones like lettuce and those I've had no success with like cauliflower.
As my garden improved I started making my own saurkraut, salsa, pickles, and relish. Along with all the vegetables I processed, I also froze items like stuffed jalapenos, battered zucchini, stuffed sweet peppers, and cabbage rolls. One year, I made 35 loaves of zucchini bread. This year I plan to do ketchup and as many other items as I can think of.
I did all of this while working full time, teaching an art class at night, doing my own artwork, playing a lot of poker, and still had lots of time for leisure. My kids are grown, so I have more time than parents, but I also have friends with several children, and they do this too. Here in West Virginia, the arts of gardening, preserving, and cooking have not been lost - not by a long shot.
In a garden that is about 50 X 50 feet, I can grow enough food to feed my husband and me with huge amounts left over. We have a steady flow of guests in our home, and we serve meals to friends who are not as fortunate as we are at least once a week. As the gardening season approaches, I find that I have enough frozen beans that I've started giving them away. Anything that's left in the freezer after 2 years, I use as compost. Sometimes, there's just too much to use, and I miss some of what's there.
For the past few years, I've planted 2 packs of lettuce in the spring. I get so much I give it to everyone I know and not even half of it gets used. Same used to be true for zucchini - from about 6 plants - until I learned to make zucchini relish, which is really good.
The point of this is that one thing people can do is to grow food and give the excess to others. Unless one has a large family, a good garden produces far more than a few people can eat. This is also true of eggs if someone has chickens.
Wouldn't it be great if a huge effort were made to grow more food locally and to share it? I try to buy what I cannot grow locally as much as possible. I still shop in grocery stores, but as time goes on, I am trying to eliminate as much of that as I can. In a couple of weeks, I'm buying a half side of beef from a local FFA (future farmers of America) member, and I get my eggs from a friend whose grandmother has chickens. I have a friend whose grandchildren are FFA members, and I get sausage from them.
I live in a rural area of West Virginia, so it's a lot easier for me than it is for many others. However, I have friends who live in Parkersburg, a small city, and they have had amazing gardens.
If it's impossible to have a garden, even many cities have farmers' markets. I know for sure there is one in Allentown, PA and other areas of Pennsylvania. It may take more time to locate and shop there, but it's worth it.
Of course, "cultivating your own garden," giving away food, and buying locally will not solve most of the problems in the US, but it's a step in the right direction. It's also healthy, saves shipping costs and fuel, and provides local residents with some extra money.
WTF is right.
"Genril Stryk is one of their triggering phrases."
My last post is a protest I just sent to editor@commondreams.org and webmaster@commondreams.org
"I don't believe it but I will not make anymore money contributions to Common Dreams until this is fixed."
Kem, GS means Genral Streak... as in a Union action!
You can;t spell it correctly to get it printed.
What's a GS? You can write fuck. See, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.___ Quack, quack prints too.
Shit fuck.
Hey Jim, it's their compouter hardware. It happens to almost everyone at times. Don't go.
On my screen... probably not yours says "Your comment is awaiting moderation."
I even tried a 3rd time and left out the F word... I think I will not post here anymore until we get freedom of speech again.
Nice knowin you all.
WTF...You are right... I tried it twice like "how about a freakin GS"
OK WTF,
You got me curious and I will post the GS word.
I should add, that short of an armed uprising (illegal under US Code, Section 2385), a GS is the most powerful tool of protest available. It is non-violent, and hits both corporate and Govt activities right where it hurts most; in the pocket. A GS is an empowering event.
Richard Paine asked: comment with the phrase of gen str is awaiting moderation never saw that before…can someone explain? And what are the phrases we can and can't use?
CD has a robot that automatically scans posts, and if it identifies certain key words or phrases, it will either not post your comment, or flag it for moderation by CD sysadms.
Genril Stryk is one of their triggering phrases. It was added to the robots vocabulary in August last year, when there was much talk of a GS on 9/11.
I am guessing that expletives are another trigger, but I have no direct experience with that as such words are unnecessary in any normal intelligent discourse.
Vote for the lesser of two evils? It still is an evil. What Americans might want to consider is getting rid of the two-party system, i.e. allow more parties and thus give the public a real choice. Right now it isn't more than a mickey mouse system. And staying home and not voting is NOT the answer either. Yes, a world-wide social revolution...that is what is urgently needed.
GREATBEAR: Depends what "works" means. If the intent is a return to feudalism, serfs tending to the manors of all the rich lords and ladies, then conservatives are definitely moving things right along to bring back the oh, so glorious, for a very few, past. Hey, they've even managed to rev up a considerable enthusiasm for religious war, i.e. the crusades.
If you mean "works" as in benefitting the greater number of persons and paving the way to a sane, balanced and caring society, well that's entirely a different matter; but then Grover Norquist was quite clear that he'd prefer to drown all government services in a bathtub... New Orleans was their litmus test, and many in their crowd allowed the band to just play on after that. Billions unaccounted for in Iraq with school lunch programs cut, no ostensible investment in clean green technology while Gaia burns; every decision that might have made a difference to improve the quality of life for Americans lost, sold out or spit upon. Conservatives work to conserve wealth for a very few and don't give a flying fuck about anything or anyone else. However, their wealthy sponsors have taken ownership of a grand share of media and are quite adept using psychological buzz words, team sport symbols, religion and patriotism to sell the uneducated a very dangerous pack of lies dressed up as a political school of thought.
For 8 long years now, the republican party has controlled both the state and federal legislators, the White House, and the Media-proving conclusively that political conservatives have no capacity for governance.
From the Iraq War to the flooding of New Orleans; the republican party has proven they cannot govern. They are simply incapable.
Conservative ideology has outlived its usefulness in the US. John McCain has nothing to offer the United States, except loyalty to a political ideology that just dorsn't work and blind allegiance to a faied president. This is the twilight of the republlican party.
Believe me, it needs to be the twilight of the republican party.
Don't count on the truckers to help you out anytime soon. I am one and after 2 1/2 years OTR, I can tell you most of them are republicans that think all is fine and dandy. They're a breed of their own and no 10 of them can agree on a dam thing. There's always someone on the CB talking about doing a strike. But they won't do it. They make enough money to be in what I call the new middle class. Just under or above 6 figures. And they have that false sense of security that everything is just fine. Personally, I believe that income class is the next target of the war on the middle class. And when I tell them that, well I can't say what they say on here. And when you have a handful of trucking companies working on a monopoly in the trucking industry. Like Werner, Swift, JB Hunt, Schneider, who hire most of their drivers right out of trucking schools at bottom rate pay, which is why they can afford fuel prices. There will be no strike. Not until those companies I mentioned ripe out most of the O/O's and smaller companies that pay well. By then it will be to late to do a strike.
KEM PATRICK, GOOSE2, URTHSONG
thank you for the info about the stamps. i guess it would be quite easy to abuse the system. but it's a shame that really deserving people don't benefit. and as richard paine said above (4.41pm) don't mention the 'g.s.' words. they seem to be very afraid of that..........................
Billions spent on attempting (and failing) to get rid of poverty and inequality in other countries, when george bush doesnt have the common sense to look on his own doorstep.
willieb37 sees: when Bush says we are winning in Iraq he is correct, he and his oil cronies are winning huge profits there;when he says we are bringing them freedom; he is correct, as he is giving the multi nationals freedom to do business there;when he says they hate our freedoms he is correct again, as they hate the freedom to rape and pillage their countries by our foreign policy. If you think like Bush it is an oxymoron, but it makes sense.
Getting food stamps requires considerable proof that you are in need. I went through it enough when my husband was becoming increasingly disabled. It took five years for him to qualify for SSDI. Even after the amputation, nearly blind, they turned him down. People who have been unemployed for a while still may have the better car. That doesn't mean they are rolling in money. So now, instead of dressing as well as they can on their job searches, they are supposed to appear shabby and deserving of help, huh? What about all the jobs that require you have a car? So they are supposed to give up the car and the chance to get those jobs? You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Well, my Bob is long dead now, 9 years ago today. I went for 20 years with no medical insurance. It came close to killing me. We survivors continue to pay it forward. Because we certainly didn't survive without the help and understanding of others. Ever notice how many of the volunteer organizations are manned by people who have been through it and understand?
It will be an interesting time for all.
See you all in the places of no darkness.
okiegal, didn't you start writing this jive about our only choice being to vote democrat (warts and all) because the other choice was even worse, back in 1980 with the first Reagan term?
That was way back before Bill 'slick willie' Clinton gutted the Glass-Steagall Act that had kept risky investment banks, and brokerage crooks separate from deposit banks and kept the financial system safe for fifty years when you started telling us we had to vote of the 'least worst' wasn't it, okiegal?
Sure has gotten a lot worse worst in the last 28 years, hasn't it, okiegal?
Seems to me like corporatist Dems voted for the Iraq war (along with corporatist Repugs).
Seems to me like corporatist Dems voted for Wall Street suicide deregulation (along with corporatist Repugs).
Seems to me like corporatist Dems are in the pockets of big oil, big pharma, and the big military industrial complex (along with corporatist Repugs).
Seems to me like you are dead wrong, okiegal --- but WTF we could keep doing the same thing and see if we all die broke.
What say you, least worse gal?
Why do we all sound like we are on the Titanic as it was sinking? Maybe because we are?
Too bad not more folks got on the bandwagon to learn to live sustainably!
I am taking a permaculture course.
You can choose to evolve or die with the mentality of fear and violence and a gun in your hand or you can choose cooperation and community and sustainable permaculture...
but maybe it is too late...
Humans are so stupid!
We need to wake up real fast! Chaos and disorder are exactly what those in power, and those who are the power behind the power, want. The Depression of the 1930's was a completely planned event and it sure seems financial collapse is now in our future. The Rockefellers and Morgans et al make out like bandits during financial panics, recessions, depressions. (And of course, wars) Whenever people say things are going so badly in Iraq I tell them, "not for the Exxons, etc. of the world. They, along with the Halliburtons and Carlyles, are raping record profits and will continue to do so. For them, the war is going great!"
Good luck to us all
Don't Bone For America
America you could turn your reflection on it's head
perhaps be the dream that you often hype
if you didn't constantly gripe
over food stamps and welfare warrior queens
and FDR and other has beens
If you were not so content on ripping off labor
every step of the way
yah.... let the third world pay
for our standard of excess
is bought with the toil of the other billions
who also travel on our spaceship home
and deserve more than the wagged dog moan
of the rich world serfs
who also toil for surfeit
and who's only dream is a better wetter home
for their woody woody bone
CoCo. It is complicated to apply for food stamps. In California you need to make less than 130% of the federal poverty level which in 2007 was $20,650 for a family of 4. (so you need to make less than about $26,000 which is not alot especially if you live in or near a city where there is work) Then there are deductions and so on. Not simple and there is a burocracy designed to do the work for you.
We tried to get on the program three years ago and had made too much the year before. It was reallllllly tight for us that year.
When people have to work two or three jobs in order to feed their children, it means that they are too tired and too busy to organize and take action. Families are beleaguered and disenfranchised from taking a stand and having their voices heard. Life is too hard. The establishment likes it that way... it works for them. If we're all so busy struggling, they can get away with their greed.
I have hope. The other day, some friends and I met a young fellow on the street who was selling bumper stickers that read: "Stop bitching and start the revolution!". We each bought one and chatted with said young man for a while. Turns out he is part of a group of young people who are working on making a sustainable and self-reliant life as a community. He told us of others who are doing the same. As a woman in my 50s, I remember when my generation THOUGHT we would do this -- we talked of it and many of us tried it... but maybe this generation of young people will have more success. Let's hope for that and help them get there. We bought his bumper stickers and gave him a bit extra... and we wished him and his companions well and we talked about him the rest of our way down the street. G-d bless them and may they be successful and spread their word. I have not been able to get that young man out of my head. I wish my own kids would do the same. I think I'll go talk to them about it!
I put my "revolution" sticker on my banjo case. I hope everyone I ever play for will see it now.
You CD posters that say vote for the dems, I hate to Mc rain on your parade and do not mean to be perjorative, but it is already fixed who the next Prez will be. The whole election is just a sham for the ignorant and facile to make the sophomoric, masses believe they have a choice. You do not believe me? Then I ask you: what happened to Ron Paul,Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich!
Well, what's the point of having food when you don't have a house, right? Isn't that what these bushie people think?
When the depression hits ___ and it will, you had better have at LEAST a year's supply of food, soap, candles, sleeping bags, and prepare to rough it for a long long time. Expect no electricity after a short time frame. You may wish to invest in a solar oven and have bleach to purify drinking water. have some washable sponges for toilet paper and have tools and shovels, axes and saws. It is going to be rough.___ Very rough.
Better have home protection weapons and ammo also. Attempt to form community security forces, for it is going to be anarchy all across America, Katrina magnified 10,000 times or more. Government checks will cease, credit cards will be worthless, the stores will be empty and if you can find a gas station that has any fuel to sell, it will likely be over $10 a gallon, maybe $20, or traded for a pound of dry beans or rice.
After awhile, the major cities will be ablaze from rioting. __Wait and see. ___ If you plan to depend upon a garden for your food, you're delusional, unless you have a decent garden set up already and are safe from roving gangs of thugs. Be better to have a lot of rat traps and a pellet gun, learn how to dress out game, stray dogs, cats rats and birds, lots of pidgeons in American cities. ___ Yum-yum.
"Where do I sign up for the revolution?"
Just remember, thanks to Rep. Jane Harman, we now have a law, the "Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act," that targets those who want to make political or social change; you know, those radicals who want to support the Constitution. And why do you think Haliburton is building all those holding facilities all over the country, hmmm?
Hi CoCo, I'm not positive but it's something like this. People who are in the lower income bracket go to a government office and apply for food stamps. If they are eligable, they are given a certain ammont of stamps, or actually a debit card now, which they can use at grocery stores for food, no alcahol, or cigarettes. It comes from our taxes we pay.
I don't know how much they can recieve, it depends upon the number in their household. The program is corrupt of course, I've seen well dressed people using food stamps at stores, then put their groceries in high dollar automobiles and drive off. It helps many of course, people who are unemployed, with children and just getting by. ___ God Bless America.
Bush has screwed us so bad he wont even be able to hold things together to pass off the mess he made of the United States. I lay most of the blame at his feet for the mess were are in. We should have been seriously looking for alternative fuel sources years ago! Good Job BUSH!
Move to Europe; you know, where kids can walk to school without being raped. They learned a long time ago that the key to preventing revolution is to always make sure that cheap bread is at least available: you know, those long baguettes and fresh big loaves for about 50 cents that cost $3.50 in the US....GOD it boggles the mind what a fucking DISASTER the years of the Bushes have been....
This is the true Dubyuh legacy: Depression. Too bad the millions of "Gomer Pyle" republicans will continue to chant-
"At least the republicans aren't gonna raise taxes". They are genetic republicans and no amount of truth will ever reach them. They believe that they are "The haves and the have mores" despite all evidence to the contrary.
What's the matter with Kansas? Third world America? It's Baaaack!
Keep voting for Republicans; you'll be pencil thin pretty soon from not eating enough food, while the pompous, condescending, arrogant, rich Republicans bray endlessly that there is "nothing wrong with the economy."
If that's true, I wonder why a lot of college girls in the U.S. have to sell their bodies to get through college in "the land of opportunity" and people have to work at two jobs now.
Thanks for nothing, Republicans, you filthy greedy pigs!
okiegal, I agree with you and the earlier comment - any Democrat is better than the Republican candidate. I even think McCain would be better than Bush... he at least seems to be fact based rather than fantasy driven.
No matter who is elected, things can't be 'fixed'. A Democrat would at least try to cushion the effects of a bad economy and the high price of oil on ordinary people.
Fortunately my folks grew up in the dirty 30's
My dear mother (78yrs old) still preserves everything and anything that can be preserved.. i swear i have at least 3 yrs of food in the storage room ( i won't tell where i live because i would be robbed in the near future), but it really is coming folks...
a couple of failed crop years and it's all over but the fighting ..just to eat and drink
The value of outstanding derivatives reported by banks to the BIS (Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland) as of June 30th, 2007 was $516 Trillion. Go there and read it for yourself, or just google for what people are saying about the number $516 Trillion.
I will spare you my long comments, they are on my countermicc blog.
kittyladyoregon and sung425,
I don't know about a depression, but we are definitely heading into some very rough waters. The Great Depression was an economic collapse (as far as I know), but what we are looking at may have other causes and perhaps, worse effects.
If we look at what's facing us: Huge debt (both in terms of the nation and individuals), a huge trade deficit, global climate changes that will affect crops, water, and migration, peak oil, and other variables. Any one of these situations is serious and could have a huge impact. What we are facing now is a perfect storm of events that will affect the whole world.
So yes, start your own gardens, learn about permaculture, learn to make do or do without. Talk to anyone who lived through the depression or who grew up poor. Ask them what they had to do to survive and start implementing their tactics. We owe it to our children to get off this merry-go-round ASAP - their lives and ours depend on it.
okiegal April 1st, 2008 4:30 pm
REF: Do not be conned into not voting. No matter what you think of the Democrats not being perfect, they are far, far better than "Let's continue the war forever" McCain.
Excellent comment!! I support everything you said 100%. Any Democratic President will be tremendously better than Let Them EAT CAKE AND CONTINUE THE WAR FOR 100 YEARS McCAIN!! We MUST get a Democratic President and Congress to avoid a Bush 3rd term!!! Please read the Tuesday, April 1, 2008 article on Common Dreams and Huffington Post by Wayne Barrett entitled "Could the Republicans Pick the Democratic Nominee? — The Untold Story of How the GOP Rigged Florida and Michigan"
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/01/8025/
The Republicans and the media talking heads at Fox. CNN and others will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING no matter how illegal and/or immoral to put their Republican nominees in the White House and Congress. We must NOT let anything like that happen.
amacd April 1st, 2008 3:55 pm
"If the investment bank next to my investment bank defaults on its debts ....then the government will jump-in so that the value of my investment bank's assets don't collapse — 'the system'.
But if the home owners next to my house default on their mortgage debts and have to sell their somewhat illiquid house, then the government will NOT jump-in so that the value of my house doesn't collapse — because I'm not part of 'their system'."
Well, amacd, you and the rest of us are a crucial part of their system as "lender of last resort", a/k/a "sucker-slaves" of a politically-rigged system of, by and for the wealthy.
Instead of allowing the alleged "free market" to punish the multi-millionarie and billionaire speculators who created this entire f-king mess to begin with, Paulson is now asking Congress to force American taxpaying citizens to become the lender of last resort for the speculators on Wall Street: monoline (and other) insurance companies, derivatives traders, and of course, the hedge fund group which doesn't pay taxes on the millions of dollars they have earned, thanks to our Republican and Democratic Congress passing legislation which allows these speculator-thieves to claim that money as "UN-EARNED" income. Billions upon billions of dollars have gone into their personal accounts as un-earned income! Can you believe that $hit?
The following website is invaluable. A little research on here will give you a whole lot of insight about both political parties: http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/index.asp
Every illegal immigrant who enters the USA and has a child becomes eligible for food stamps. Yes, the cost of food is going up, but that's not the reason
more people are getting food stamps. Those who live in a cash economy manipulate the system to get all they can and the poor person working two jobs to survive isn't eligible because he/she makes
$2 bucks over the income limit. This is how it is, has been, and will continue to be.
4:32 it says my comment with the phrase of gen str is awaiting moderation never saw that before...can someone explain? And what are the phrases we can and can't use? What does and doesn't scare who? We accept lies from the government but an honest to God GS from the population can't even be spelled out........
let alone contemplated or carried out? Well folks maybe there still is some power in numbers and in the general population wonder if we might figure this out before it is gone, or outlawed?
and I also wonder if I might loose my commenting access?
Do not be conned into not voting. No matter what you think of the Democrats not being perfect, they are far, far better than "Let's continue the war forever" McCain.
Get your head out of the sand. FDR was an establishment Democrat. But he saved this country from sinking. Perhaps neither Hillary or Barack have the guts to do it, but either of them will be a better gamble than McCain who we KNOW is going to be just as bad or worse than Bush.
Right now kids, we have no choice but to vote for the Democrat for President, warts and all. The Republicans will let you eat cake or starve. They truly don't give a damn. If fact, they prefer you starve, it gets you out of the social security system. You get nothing back, they keep your money.
This article originally came from the Independent in the UK.
Nice this shows the rest of the developed world how much of an inequitable corporatist Empire the US really is.
BTW, the GINI coefficient of wealth and income inequality (which is the gold standard of systemic inequality for economists) shows the US 'off the charts' with respect to all other developed countries, and matched only by South American 'banana republics', African dictatorships, and Middle East oil monarchies.
Nice job corporatist Empire.
Nice job also corporatist Empire in hiding behind the facade of this friggin, two-party, 'Vichy' government.
Even Goebbels would turn over in his grave with envy about your propaganda in co-opting the entire political and media system and disguising them as 'Vichy' reality to the rubes.
Oh, now I've got it.
If the investment bank next to my investment bank defaults on its debts and has to sell its somewhat illiquid assets, which might bring down the value of my investment bank's similar illiquid assets, then the government will jump-in so that the value of my investment bank's assets don't collapse -- 'the system'.
But if the home owners next to my house default on their mortgage debts and have to sell their somewhat illiquid house, which might bring down the value of my similar illiquid house, then the government will NOT jump-in so that the value of my house doesn't collapse --- because I'm not part of 'their system'.
Unfortunately, for me, and probably you, we only own a portion of our homes --- and not big portions of our very own investment bank, like Paulson.
Told that tens of millions of American homeowners don't think that this system is fair, the Bush administration might well respond with the same compassionate answer that Cheney recently gave about most Americans not supporting his oil-war in Iraq ----
"So?"
And perhaps adding, in the domestic case --
"Let them eat mortgages."
Empire is as Empire does.
Perhaps we need to plan for some "Radical Action" against Empire.
If Paulson, Bush and the like are fondly envisioning acquiescent, patient, and 'well-behaved' soup-lines queuing up for GD II as they did in Great Depression I they are due for a rude awakening.
Paraguay is not far enough away, George.
Think more in terms of 'thumbs' and 'rope'.
as a non-american, can someone explain the criteria for obtaining these stamps. and where do people get them from. thank you.
coco
lwhunt wrote: This truckers' strike is going to be interesting
I've been calling for a national strike for years as being the best way of getting attention. Not Saturday marches. Not writing to your Congressman. We need a Genral Stryke (deliberately mis-spelled to avoid the CD robot censor - try it!). Thank goodness for the Unions (what is left of them), as they are the only folk with much backbone.
Another unfortunate side-effect of the success of the surge.
I was just going to point out that Diesel is $4/gallion!
As lwhunt pointed out, I've heard the trucking industry is the canary in the coal mine.
This truckers' strike is going to be interesting and probably not a calm event. I remember a trucking strike in the 70's where semi trailer trucks drove side by side down interstates at 30 mph to get their point across. This would bring America quickly to its knees if this happens again.
Hi Galen: as a Katrina victim myself, that's why I used the word "Tsunami Victim" instead of Katrina victim. Bush was more than compassionate to the Tsunami victims but he let New Orleans drown and as you correctly stated, he wants the victims to pay, the bastard.
The good news is:
"...James E. Cayne, (former CEO of Bear Sterns and STILL THE CHAIRMAN,) and taxpayers just handed him almost $50 million. Mr. Cayne got this gift when J.P. Morgan renegotiated the terms of its takeover of Bear Stearns..."
Cause, you know, if We The People don't keep America's most notorious thieves in, er, business, then by golly the whole economy will collapse.
That'll oughta keep them lazy freeloading food-stamp terrorists at bay!
The disaster and collapse of our system is just beginning. A friend who works as a manager of a large grocery store told me that food prices are expected to increase 23% this summer. Stock up your pantry and freezer with food and do start a garden but be wary of theft by two-legged deer looking for a free meal. Good luck.
I was born in the Great Depression and have predicted this to happen again soon. It is now upon us. Everybody better make sure you plant a garden. If you live in an apartment, plant your veggies in pots. It may be the only fresh produce you will be able to get.
Forextrader- ... and the Katrina victims to give back their money.
Hey Surrender, the millionaires won't be jumping out the window any time soon. They will be bailed out by the Fed with your tax Dollars, remember Bear Stearns? Bush treats these millionaires like Tsunami victims while at the same time he tells defrauded homeowners to go to hell.
We need to start organizing and working in community gardens ASAP
Foodstamp use on the rise.
Heh.
Just wait.
If the truckers strike goes down, as it may, protesting the $1000 cost to fuel those diesel behemoths, then the store shelves will be barren within three days.
Three days.
Then EVERYONE will be scrambling for food. Not just the poor. And all that lovely Chilean produce, and New Zealand lamb, and Mexican broccoli will just... rot on the docks.
Hmmm.
Part of a plan? Will the Halliburton built camps be filled sooner than we expect? Or will we be so distracted by the food riots that the nuking of Iran will go unchallenged?
The government will continue to understate the rate of inflation thereby assuring that wage earners, retirees and food stamp recipients continue to fall behind as they have since the Nixon Administration.
The neocon dream of turning the US into a third world nation is nearly complete.
500 billion on the iraq war alone. And theyre gonna show the rest of the world how to run their countries.
Our government is for the most part, nothing but enlisted, corporate soldiers.They represent the multi nationals and not the American people.They have crucified our Constitution and sold out the American people. McCain,Clinton and Obama enlisted as corporate soldiers a long time ago.Good advise from Green Pat.
I am not old enough to remember the depression of the thirties, but my understanding is that we borrowed our way out of that one. Bet that won't work a second time!
Last time FDR took from the super rich the money they had stolen, and they are still whining about how unfair it was. Who's going to be our messiah this time? See any likely candidates?
And Barbara Bush said, "let them eat cake"...
Hey, I'd like to coin this age in our history as "The Dumb Deal" years. Unlike the "New Deal" years, we are governed by a black-hearted King of Fools, a congress that is indifferent about the raw deal dealt to people, communities, children and our world -- and a Supreme Court that thinks "due process" is a term for how you extract money and rights from everyday people.
There is an election coming up. Are you going to do the same thing again---vote for the lesser of two evils -- or not vote at all? Get a clue. Things are going downhill very fast. Don't vote for any member of either of the corporate parties. They are on the payroll of the corporations who are doing very well. Good enough to buy your 'leaders'. Get smart and vote independent.
c'est l'heure de la madame guillotine
Where do I sign up for the revolution?
Maybe US officials should consult with Hugo Chavez, who has cut poverty in Venezuela in half. (O, sorry, I forgot: the US is the greatest, best, most intelligent country on earth and has nothing to learn from anybody.)
I CAN'T WAIT until there are some white collars in this line!
Let the fucking millionaires start jumping out of their windows! Hell, I'll even volunteer to open a few!
And a lot of progressive type independents and demos vote for third party candidates and the Republicans often win.
Yeah it's true, ~ENN~, but I'm not at the level of Thomas Payne or R W Emerson. May have a few of their genes. My Great grandmother on my mothers side was a first cousin of Emerson and that was her middle name. She lived at Waldon Pond for awhile and I have several of her paintings.
Hey this is a fun thread, but afraid I got us off topic, THE COMING DEPRESSION.
It is happening and it will not be pretty, fun, or any other good words. Prepare for nation-wide anarchy, rioting and people fighting for food and fuel. It will be similar to the fictional Mad Max story, and the eventual fall of a once great nation is how I see it working out. Hope I'm wrong though.