Blood On The Ice

Hello Alcyon,

I have perhaps misrepresented some of the picture I created above. We took and take good care of our animals. However, we raise almost all of our own food. That means we raise some of our animals to be butchered. By raising our own food I was able to stay home with our children for the most part. We had no cash and we wore hand-me-downs and used clothing, but we ate well. Part of having responsibility for animals is to ensure that they don't suffer when the time comes to butcher. We butcher the chickens, ducks, and turkeys for our own use by ourselves. My husband's family butchered their own pigs and cattle when he was young, but now we send them to a small local butcher. The job is just too big for us to do by ourselves now.

The animals that we raise to butcher would have no life at all, even for that short period, if we were not raising them to butcher. No one can afford to keep those animals for pets. We certainly can not keep animals which do not contribute to the support of the family in some way. The dogs even contribute by being watch dogs and the cats by catching the mice and rats that eat our animal's food. That doesn't mean we don't care for them, or even take pride in them.

My first impression of people who respond to the butchering of animals in an emotional way is that they don't really understand how nature works. In nature some animals eat other animals. That is the natural way. We see it all the time around here. When I scout out eagle nests, there are always the bones of animals scattered underneath the nest. My husband found the feet of one of our chickens under a tree which held the raccoon that had captured that hen and eaten her. The foxes patrol our fields these days looking for mice that have become exposed with the melting of the snow. While the coyotes do eat our blueberries, I'm sure they are not surviving on blueberries alone. What makes humans different is that we raise animals specifically for food, we take good care of them, and when we kill, we kill quickly and humanely. I know to some people that is a contradiction in terms, but that is how it is.

At the same time I don't sit back and judge how anyone else eats. If you don't want to eat meat, fine. When my brother-in-law was on a vegetarian diet as part of a naturopathic programme to treat his terminal cancer, I made him vegetarian options at his last Thanksgiving dinner. I was happy to do it. I would do it for any committed vegetarian, even you, because one of the the other things that makes us human is the ability to respect each other's choices.

Remember, what got me started on this chain of comments was the jubilation over the deaths of four men by someone who condemned the seal hunt because it resulted in the deaths of some seals. I know many people saw the hypocrisy in that position, but it is a position that is all too common in the various animal rights movements.

I saw myself in that cartoon, as well.

Best wishes...

Slippyroad, I know about the 'local small producers' you are talking about - since we have had cows most of the time when I was young, and chickens that were free to roam about. Though we had the cows only for the milk, we couldn't always know for sure what happened to them after we sold them to someone. They certainly didn't 'retire' in our farm. Yes, we too used to name our cows, I have assisted the vet (just a local 'expert' really) when the calves were born, played with the calves, etc. For some reason we were mostly lacto-ovo vegetarians most of the time. I am now realizing that a vegan lifestyle is more appropriate - at least for me. I have done quite a bit of reading and feel that it could indeed suit everyone - notwithstanding what the 'experts' say about vitamin B12, iron, etc. I have long since dropped the 'calcium' concern. So far, I only talk about it if I'm asked - unless I'm writing in some blog or replying to someone like I'm doing here. I fully appreciate your sentiments about local small producers, but I happen to believe that the time has come for even the small farmers to move away from meat production. Like I said, it's just my conviction right now - I have relatives who still enjoy their meat, and I don't even try to convince them one way or the other. I'm just grateful that they make enough vegan dishes keeping me in mind during get-togethers :)
The cartoon about bloggers was funny - it's not too far off from what bloggers actually do (including me?)!

Just to finish off this discussion, this was in the news today:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2008/04/09/sealer-tr...

And I thought people might get a kick out of this:

http://xkcd.com/406/

By all.....

I have just seen the video "Meet Your Meat". I would like to point out that another way to react to that video is to be sure to buy your food from local small producers. We had a small mixed farm until we were forced out by international agribusiness and we did not treat our animals that way. Our chickens were and are free-range. The meat chickens receive restricted rations so that they don't grow too fast. If they want more than their rations they have to go searching for insects and things in the grass. Last summer the laying hens spent a good deal of time perching in my grapes and picking off the best ones. Our sows had a roomy pen to move around in and one of us was always with them when they had their piglets. My husband could name the lineage of all our dairy cows because they were mostly great-grand-daughters of cows he had milked as a boy. We had one cow live to be 20 years old and she still produced milk. Our kids named her "Milkshake". We had a goat, named "Nanny" (creative huh?) which lived to be 22 years old. When a graduate student from Africa visited us he was amazed because he had never seen a goat that old before. "Meet Your Meat" is more of a condemnation of large corporate farms, than of farming in general. Get to know your local small producers, if they are still farming.

I think you all should take a look at this video.

http://www.cbc.ca/clips/mov/wood-sealers-080405.mov

Alcyon, I completely agree, and I am a vegan. My post was directed to some earlier posts here where someone listed a recipe for "flipper" which I found very hurtful. They may feel strongly that the sealers have to do this to survive and support their families, but it doesn't mean they have to rub it in the faces of people, like me, who are very distressed to see such treatment of animals. The video that did it for me was the "meet your meat" video from PETA. If that doesn't affect people and make them think twice about eating animals, then nothing will.

anne faith, I've never dined on "flipper", and I'm not ok with what's on that video. But please stop for a moment and think - all killing of animals is horrible to watch. TV commercials may talk about 'juicy' burgers and steak, but it's not fun to watch where it originates:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3-YTpgX7oQg

(WARNING: Same as above - horrible images)
P.S.
anne faith, I'm just making a general point - for all I know, you could be a vegan, but I'm just pointing out the arbitrary nature of what's considered 'acceptable' and what's not.

anne faith, I thought I knew all about the cruelty in the meat and dairy industry - I bought John Robbins' 'Diet for a New America' when it first came out. I had never heard of this video "Meet Your Meat":
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-513747926833909134
Now after watching it I'm thinking I should stop even the occasional (like 2 times a year?) ice cream! Actually, the dairy or meat industry doesn't have to be this way - but then everything is about maximizing profits - so I think they'll just do the minimum to meet whatever regulations are out there.

For those dining on "flipper," your're okay with this?

https://secure.hsus.org/01/savesealsvideo08/nCdzdFFFqPYVU?qp_source=gabc...

(WARNING: graphic images)

> but killing with a blow to the head from a club is probably as humane as any other method...

In theory. In practice, as practiced as the seal hunters are, they miss. Seals flop around and they're aiming for a fairly small target.

I'm curious about something that apparently no one else is - why are permits required to watch the hunt?
Are the ice floes private property? Government property? I can understand not wanting outsiders to interfere with the hunt, deer hunters in my State wouldn't either but it's not illegal to go out in the woods just like the hunters do.

Slippyroad, since you referred to 'attacking sealers' more than once, my first reaction was 'When did I attack the sealers? If anything, I was pointing out the hypocrisy and the double standards of THOSE WHO ATTACK the sealers.' But I guess you are making a general point - not necessarily referring to me? Thanks for stopping by my website - yes, it's my work, except for the climate change videos (in fact, my main motivation to start the site was to share those videos :)

As for the sustainability of seal fishery, well, it may be so - but personally, I am not concerned about that - because I have been mostly a vegan, pretty much for the last 20+ years. Although I became a vegetarian at first due to my discomfort with killing the animals, later on I found so many other arguments in support of a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. I know how hard it is to give up something we are used to - and, really, in my opinion, that is the only factor that's keeping people from giving up meat (which includes all seafood). There is enough scientific evidence to show that a vegan diet is perfectly sufficient to lead a healthy life. But I don't want to belabor that point - because, like I said, it's a personal choice for me.

To clarify why I posted the comment here - it's NOT to attack the sealers or the sealing practice (though I disagree with that practice). It should be clear from my earlier comment that I was only pointing out the hypocrisy and the arbitrariness of condoning the eating of some kinds of meat while condemning the killing of another animal. To me, the killing of all animals by choice is the same.

My idea of sustainability is completely different - and very simple: I ask the question, "what would happen if everyone in the world does this...." assuming that somehow everyone could afford to eat meat, drive a car everyday, fly to exotic locations for vacation, etc. It comes from a basic sense of fairness - I feel that all human beings deserve to have the basic necessities of food, drinking water and shelter, irrespective of where they live. I know population growth needs to be addressed - and I KNOW for a fact that most third world countries are serious about tackling population, notwithstanding the religious dogma. But what about the people who are already born? They didn't ask to be born - but they are already here. So they need to have enough to eat, no matter where they live. If I accept that basic premise, then with the finite resources of land and water, only a vegetarian or vegan diet is suitable. If someone doesn't accept the premise that everyone deserves to have enough food, then that's his choice - I have nothing further to say. But I hope that this question will be asked by more and more people - what is to be done if everyone needs to have the basic necessities?

You refer to the US-Canada FTA. It is only one example, although a major one, of corporate greed and how democratic governments are only so in name. It is really sad how powerless the people have become - in the so-called democracies. I think most of us have been living under some kind of an illusion that somehow we have reached an ideal situation. But really, more fundamental changes are needed - just like the end of colonialism, monarchy, dictatorships, etc., in order to reach a fairer and more sustainable world.

Slippyroad, I completely sympathize with those who have to engage in this kind of a profession for a living. That includes those who work in slaughterhouses - I have seen some videos and they are NOT pretty.

That being said, I can see a lot of economic mismanagement and unsustainable policies/approaches that give rise to this kind of a desperate situation for many people. Canada is the second largest country in the world. Even if you say a lot of it is too darned cold, well, the population is just around 33 million? And it's part of the G8. My point is, there is more than enough wealth to go around. But there is a reluctance to do anything about the economic inequalities, apparently. The way I see it, Canada somehow relies too heavily on just exploiting its natural wealth - timber, oil and gas, uranium and other minerals, fish...even agriculture, beef production, etc. Canada ranks 4th in both ecological footprint and greenhouse gas emissions PER CAPITA. Canadians care for the environment, no doubt - but there is very little movement towards sustainability. If there is a national will, I am sure alternative means of livelihood can be found for the sealers and others in unsustainable or otherwise inhumane professions. It may be hard to do for a poor country with a large population - but it shouldn't be for a large, reasonably rich country with a small population. You just have to start by analyzing where the wealth is concentrated, and who does what to make a living. It's complex, but it's necessary to move towards sustainability and a humane society.

I have been reading the above posts and very few of you know what you are talking about. Kelmer specifically should be ashamed of himself. Do you know what it is like to be trapped in an upside down boat with icy water rushing in? I know you don't because you are still here, but can you raise enough humanity to try to imagine it?

The men who died had wives, children, parents and siblings. They were important people in their communities, not important because they were rich or politicians, but important because they were the foundation on which their communities were built.

These men were from the Magdalen Islands (ÃŽles de la Madeleine in French):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalen_Islands

If you will go to the link you will see that the population of these Islands is around 13,000 people whose main occupation is fishing. Someone above stated that sealing made up only 5% of sealer's income, what they didn't point out was that with the collapse of the fisheries and the rising cost of fuel and equipment, that 5% might be the only profit these men make to support their families. I have tried to find the the average annual income for these Islands, but it seems that information hasn't been released from the 2006 census yet. However the general minimum wage in Quebec is $8.00/hr or $7.25/hr if you work at a job where you receive tips. That isn't very much. In addition to fishing, tourism is an important industry to the Magdalen Islands, but their tourist season is basically two months long, July and August, limiting the amount of time people can earn an income (at $8.00/hr) outside of the fishery.

If you go to the Canadian job listings:
http://jb-ge.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/prov_en.aspx?Student=No
select Quebec and then select "Gaspesies/Ilse-del-la-Madeliene" (the name of the administrative district that includes the Magdalen Islands)
in the "By Area" box, you will see that at this point there is not one job advertised for these Islands. All of the jobs are on the mainland. Have any of you tried to commute to work by boat in the winter?

Please go to the news stories about this tragedy:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/03/31/icebreaker-dickson-in...
and watch the videos in the bar at the right, it will give you an idea of what conditions are like here now and what the effect these deaths had on their community.

I live on the north shore of Prince Edward Island and the ice is hard on our shore. If I could see just a bit over the curve of the earth I would be able to see the Magdalen Islands.These days I might be able to walk there over the ice. I know how hard it is to make a living here and we have a much larger economic base than they do in the Magdalen Islands.

These sealers do not have many career choices and it is time for you people to start to realize that you are speaking about real people with real families and real problems. If you want the sealing to stop, then provide other options, other wise these men will have to continue sealing because they can not refuse any opportunity to bring in a bit of income, no matter how small.

Seal populations are not in decline. The population is stable at 5 million. The hakapik (club) is a humane meathod of killing seals. Saying something, of course, does not make it true. Before swalllowing the claims of vegans, or of anyone for that matter, it's best to verify the facts.

You can boycott all you like, Canada's primary customers do not include the United States or England. They are Norway, Germany, Greenland, China, Finland, Denmark, France, Greece, South Korea, and Russia.

For an overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_hunting

The real "wedge issue" is tying cruelty to specific groups. Characterizations such as the "Canadian" seal hunt, the "Chinese" practice of skinning dogs and cats alive for fur, the "American" factory farm, the "Japanese" whale slaughter only divert attention from animal suffering to ethnic or national stereotypes. ALL these practices are cruel.

The more scientists learn about animals, the more it is apparent that animals have consciousness, they experience fear, pain and suffering. Indeed, their neurological and cognitive structures are often quite similar to our own. While there are many reasons for recognizing that animals have rights besides their similarity or dissimilarity to humans, at the very least, we must recognize that we cause them an enormity of suffering that is almost impossible to imagine. This must be acknowledged. It's not enough to describe "traditional" practices, or "efficiency" or "human survival" without acknowledging the suffering we cause to other species and that the amount of suffering we cause is far in excess of that necessary to our own survival.

At a time when the seal populations are declining and the causes are unknown, why would anyone think killing the youngest and most vulnerable members of the seal population be a good thing to do? I only buy fake fur, the real stuff is no use to me living in Georgia. And with so many new, more usable and warmer fabrics, the seal fur hunt is just uncalled for. I am for banning this practice entirely, just as I believe hunting whales is a fruitless practice.

To the poster who is celebrating the deaths of the four sealers shame on you! There are children who have lost their fathers, wives who have lost husbands. You may not approve of what these men do for a living but applauding their deaths is far worse.

Vegans are using the seal hunt as a wedge because even though they know slaughterhouses are far worse they focus on the seals because they are cute and are killed in a picturesque environment. I don't see them defending the rights of city rats to live either.

As to the Inuit, they do not claim that they want to live as they did centuries ago. That does not mean they have to be willing to give up a traditional occupation nor that they must use ancient meathods to continue it. The Inuit use every part of the seal. Again, westerners have no problem using cattle, sheep, pigs, chickens etc. but because seal isn't a traditional resource for western consumption it is all of a sudden disgusting.

lizard, you may be glad to know that the 'holier-than-thou' crap is not limited to America alone. As with the dog-fighting scandal in the US, some East-Asian immigrant folks were trashed in newspapers by 'outraged' Canadians when they found out about some 'cock-fighting' ring they were carrying on in the name of 'tradition'. But rodeo is considered an honorable tradition - don't know if the rodeo cattle would agree. Same with the Spanish bull-fighting. Many Hindus do not eat beef as they consider the cow 'sacred'. That's fine. But they think it's ok to consume dairy products. I wonder if they know about the 'retirement plans' of the cows after they stop giving milk, or whether they would be willing to pay for such a 'retirement' for the cows, so someone else doesn't kill them. It's all arbitrary - but people will be quick to point fingers, criticize, attack or trash others when the 'tradition' happens to be different from their own.

kelmer, you're absolutely spot on in your argument - except towards the end when you share your 'good news'. No, sealers drowning is never a good news. They are in it only for the money. As Caroline Lucas points out in the article, a rich country like Canada can surely offer alternatives to the sealers. In that sense, hunters and 'sport'-fishermen are worse - not just with their killing out of choice, but the environmental impact of their little 'hobby' - whether it's driving a 4x4 to their hunting location or their gas-guzzler boat (after first towing it all the way to the water) is avoidable as well. Again, you are spot on when you say humans don't need to do any 'managing' of the population of any animal species, apart from safeguarding their own 'territory' - nature can take care of that. I also agree with your comment on the Inuit's claim based on some 'tradition' while they totally depend on modern tools.
As a vegan, may be you can also see the total hypocrisy of the protesters - who feel so much for the seals, but think it's ok to raise cows, pigs and chicken in cruel conditions before slaughtering them, or some religion forbidding certain meat while allowing other meat. Even the so-called dog lovers and cat-lovers obviously think it's ok to feed ground up cow meat or pig meat to their pets - they obviously imagine they are being animal lovers. There's no logic in any of this - it's all screwed up.

Canuck Chuck, I like a lot of what you write, but I think you've got the wrong take on this article by seeing as just an attack on Canadians, which would be absolutely wrong. Canadians are good folks. Hell, I wish I was a Canadian. But that's not the point. But the fact that the author of this article, like the British Greens are just not going after enough of the real problem rather than just this symptom of the problem, the brutality visisted on seals,, and haven't in British politics by going after the real problem which is the whole wrong damn attitude of putting money and material things ahead of people and other living things. Respect and the Liberal Democrats have both done more to deal with this and with more electoral success in British politics, as they have connected more with the people. The British Greens, like the German Greens are much too inclined to avoid dealing with this and don't deserve any more support than they've got so far or even that. Also the British Greens have even thrown in with the Tories and Conservatives, who sometimes are to the right of the Blairites, in more than maybe a few local councils, In this matter it's important to understand that many British Labor politicians including those in such councils are still real Labor and standing up for the working class, more than can really be said of both British and German Greens.

MeAlsoToo..... requested a recipe...... It is a shame to see all the good seal meat go to waste.

Seal Flipper Pie Recipe

Written by Ryan Woodford (CyberSpike)

Ingredients:
# 4 seal flippers
# 1 L water
# 500 ml soda
# 125 ml fat pork, diced
# 1 cup milk
# 2 onoins, chopped
# 5 ml salt
# 60 ml flour
# 250 ml cold water
# 5 ml Worcestershire sauce

Directions:
Soak flippers in 1 L of water and soda. Trim off excess fat.

Dry flippers and dip in seasoned flour.

Brown in pork fat. Add onions and make a gravy of flour, water, and sauce. Pour over flippers.

Cover and bake at 350 degrees F for 2-3 hours.

Make a pastry and cover the flippers. Bake at 400 degrees F for 30 minutes.

Boycotting the fur from the killing of these seals is fine, but if the opposition parties in the Canadian House of Commons would force a confidence vote on Stephen Harper, they should be successful in winning it, forcing an election that Harper's Conservative should lose, and getting rid of the jerks who are approving this scum bag garbage taking place and giving Canada a bad name. Hell, let Canada be Canada again. Get rid of the damn Tories or Con Servatives with all their con jobs going back to the Air Bus scandal and Tuna Gate.

ivrich! fantastic logic! boycott canada!
i mean come on... the seal hunt is bad but how about the demand side of the whole operation. where are you from? let me see if your country has clean hands. i hope you're not from the US or england at least- that would be too easy. shall we boycott canada for enabling seal hunting or the US for being directly responsible for the loss of millions of human lives in the past decade. or ANY other government that puts profit before ethics (read: all)

"We simply have no business interfering with any animals right to habitat or nature-determined experiences." -- Tolstoy

Spend as few, if any, dollars in Canada as you possibly can and let the Canadian Tourist Office know why you are doing so. This can only add to the economic pressure to stop this horrible practice.

Trying to be Rational, no, I don't want to club the sealers. That was an emotional response to the photograph that appears above. And no, I'm not proud of my brief association with Sam's Club when I was hired to stand in the aisle handing out "Marshmallow Munchies." I do not claim any moral superiority over the sealers, because none of us is pure.

Anne Faith, when you can explain the ethical superiority of supplying labour for the "commercial profit" of Sam's Club and other enterprises that promote unnecessary consumerism and the consequent waste of resources and the oppression of people and animals, then I'll assent in your condemnation of commercial sealers. In the meanwhile, I'll join you in hoping that the hunters -- and you -- will someday be able to avail of more 'morally pleasing' occupations. And, as for eating seal, I'll have my usual dinner or two of flipper pie this spring and my children's Nan will continue to bottle seal carcass, to be eaten later during our terrible winters!
But thank you for seeming to move beyond wanting to club the "barbarians," at least in your tone, anyway.

Do they taste-good, also? [Have a Recipe to share?]

What is done with the meat, now (is my dog eating-Seal)?

Trying To Be Rational, in your earlier post, you said: "Their forefathers were once forced to do this from sheer hunger; they cannot be made to see their destinies as much different, even with an SUV in their backyard." My understanding is that these seals are now killed for their fur, for commercial profit, not for their meat, as may have been the case centuries ago. Are you saying that because this is part of their culture, this makes what they do okay? Sorry. The cultural argument does not persuade me. In some cultures, women are subjected to painful genital mutilation. But I'm hoping that over time, that practice will also disappear.

Anne Faith, I'd like to understand how you can predict with any certainty what you would do after growing up in the culture in which the seal hunt is a hundreds-of-years old occupation of necessity, not choice.
Your grand narrative is oppressive to millions of people about whose lives you know very little.
I'll share a brief snippit of my narrative: I grew up in Ohio and have lived in Newfoundland for 35 years. There are significant differences even within this greater Anglo-Saxon milieu. And your shallow moralisms, as well as the hypocricies of most of the posters here, cannot do justice to them.

Great points, Phatbiker. Long ago, I had a job killing rats. Cute, furry, helpless little rats. All just to keep our economy humming along. Come and get me.

Harp seals are not an threatened spieces, their numbers are exploding mostly because the predators that feed off them are in decline (polar bears, orcas, sharks, etc.). If baby seals (cute) looked like tarantulas (ugly) nobody would give a crap about the seal hunt. I would rather wear leather or fur (natural) than man-made products (oil, chemicals, etc.) because in the long run it is better for the environment.

Klimt, you make a valid point. But speaking for myself, I'd find another way to survive and support my family.

Why would Sane-people, who continue to covet and wear 'furs' (long-after the Ice Age has receded, and we have more so-called 'Warming' -- and moreover, better-insulating and man-made-fabrics/garb) be "Shocked&Awed" at the crude-fashion in which their 'needs' and "Market-Demands" are initially/efficiently-met...?
This 'Issue' (like so-many others) requires no "Legislation", at-all -- it only begs for 'less demand for this Fur' by we "Naked Apes".
[Only the truly-Insane would so-'harvest' these cute/little-critters if they weren't being paid-'decently' to do-so...quite-obviously.]

I feel just as sorry for these Poor-souls (who I fear Must pursue a livelihood like this -- no-doubt for their family's-sake&survival) as I feel for our-'Troops' and those despised 'Illegal Immigrants', and Monsanto's-Minions -- soon to starve the world in the name of 'feeding-it'...
[Take away the 'profits' from any of these Activities, and you would take away the activity's-themselves...such are the Laws of Capitalism (the only binding-Laws we have-left in this 'neo-World-Order'!]

The same life force that runs through any creature runs through ourselves. We lose a piece of us everytime we harm another creature. How insane is that?

YIKES! This I had to follow...
Went to find another country to live in over the holidays, I am not Fur savvy, since I don't wear it. Although in '76 watching the Iditarod, below me was a Native Alaskan woman in fur, which was for warmth for her as well as the baby she had snuggled in the back of the coat, this is sensible. Yet aren't white fox, white mink and ermine specifically bred and raised to murder so women might adorn themselves with their fur? Trazillions in Paris. I have never seen so many fur wearing women smashing into cars as they try to back out from tight parking and go on their merry way, odd city, especially if one wants a cab or can avoid being run over by Scooter Boyzzz. Okay, the Louvre, grand architecture but I've seen better in Istanbul and Bursa and the only ones in fur there ARE the Russian prostitutes.
Canuckchuck, you okay? I love Canada, kid plays ice hockey there much, great medical system. Of course, I am American, so plenty of things done by the EVIL DOERS do despise us for. namaste had it so right a bit ago re; The Science of Ponerology(evil), been telling all, proper kudos given to those whom provided us all with this info.

YES UK..IT IS MUCH MORE HUMAN TO USE WHITE PHOSPHORUS ON IRAQI CIVILIANS AND BURN THEM ALIVE THAN TO CULL A FEW OCEAN RATS...WHEN YOU GET YOUR MURDERERS OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST< THEN COME TALK TO CANADA ABOUT ITS SEALS

WANKERS

generally i agree with the direction of this article- the seal hunt is a disgrace and more focus should be put on the DEMAND side of the transaction if we really want to curb the killing. there is no shortage of examples of unsavory practices that continue as long as rich people are willing to put up the money.
kelmer- i understand your anger at the seal hunt but as an (obviously) proud vegan i would assume that one virtue you would possess would be at least a tiny fraction of compassion. so, as someone who also respects all life i find it quite shallow and hypocritical for you praise the deaths of four hunters. perhaps the trade they were engaged in was abhorrent but you sound more like a vengeful child than someone who cherishes life. i understand humans are the most evil creatures ever to have inhabited this planet (no big revelation there) but is that really a virtuous attitude? an eye for an eye, i guess?
anne faith- i can't say with certainty but i'd be willing to bet that most seal hunters don't live in areas with as many minimum wage restaurants, grocery stores, etc that would offer the virtuous alternatives you took. while i don't agree with the seal hunt and would hope more hunters would look for other means of supporting their families,it is true that people of the far north have fewer options than the rest of us.

Dealing death is hardly an attractive occupation.... in fact it is repellent. But we deal death to millions of creatures every year for food, fur, etc...... Not to mention in warfare. Sealing is a dramatically bloody and shocking affair... but killing with a blow to the head from a club is probably as humane as any other method.. it just makes dramatic and repulsive footage. It is great for the animal rights wackos ...... who get great mileage out of it. The seals are not endangered as a species, and if the young were not killed in this way, ultimately they would be culled by nature in equally or more brutal ways... but not so dramatic as we would not be able to watch it on TV. I personally have little use for these kinds of wackos....... They have nothing better to do than rant and rave about this sort of thing and stir people up over nothing. Somehow in their twisted view of things it is less cruel for an elk or a deer to die by being hamstrung by a pack of wolves and run down, having it's belly ripped open, and being fed upon while still living... than to be shot by a hunter....... Where's the "reason" here? All I hear is the ravings of a bunch of PETA idiots.

Howard

Is it worse than what is done to chickens? No, its better. is it worse than what is done to pigs, no its better. Is it worse than what is done to veal? No it's better. So what is it worse than? Baby seal are cute, and blood on ice is more impresive than blood on cement. More holier than thou American crap.

I resent being called a "near Jain". To be more accurate I would call myself a monkish Hindu. That being said, I realize that most Americans are resource consuming pigs who slaughter billions of animals to fill their endless gluttony. Most Americans are grossly overweight, etc. I like Canucks in general, but I have to say that this seal hunt is disgusting. Chinese need seal penises? I'm not to thrilled about that bunch either. I recall visiting New York and being revolted by the rich animals who buy furs and Chinese made overpriced crap of every variety. They like it when some idiot plasters his name on some garbage and then sends it to china to be made and then the morons buy it for hundreds of dollars. Do we really need these type of people? Russian freakin' prostitutes need fur? Who gives rat's patooey about those loser chicks? We slaughter animals for these people. What a joke. Okay I'll go back to praying and fasting.

There's no point in protesting the killing of baby seals if we also aren't protesting the killing of baby humans.

Matti, I think it's a cig in his mouth, and his legs look cropped because they're behind a snow bank.

Kelmer, thanks for the info and excellent post. I agree that this "blame the seals for eating all the fish" stuff is nonsense. Which animal has more of a right to those fish? Humans, who can eat all kinds of things? Or seals, for whom fish is their only source of food? And for those who say humans have more of a right to those fish than seals, who made you God?

Skippy, I completely agree that the slaughterhouses are also barbaric. That's one reason why I'm a vegan. The sight of that grown man wielding a club as that baby seal looks up fearfully into his eyes. It just tears me up. We humans are so good at killing. Why can't we be better at peace making?

JohnnieCanuck, I don't think Canadians are barbarians. Just the seal killers.

I don't have any sympathy for sealers who supposedly have to kill innocent babies for their livelihood. I've waited tables, mucked out horse stalls, worked as a cashier, worked as a food handler at Sam's Club, and done all kinds of low wage and sometimes demeaning work in order to keep from starving when times were hard. There is always work to be found that doesn't involve slaughtering innocents, whether it's killing baby animals or killing babies in Iraq. So do I feel sorry for these working-class sealers? No.

Also, what's with the guy in the photo at the top of the article?

His leg looks cropped- is this photo doctored? Or is it just a weird focus issue on something in the foreground?

But more importantly, does anyone else see a ciggie in his mouth?

Talk about one nasty dude -clubbing seal pups to death WHILE SMOKING!

ick

-matti.

I just don't understand the passive "obsevation" tactics of the people that say they are so concerned about this.

Why isn't this interfered with in more of a Sea Shepherd-y kinda way?

Or is this a stupid question? I wouldn't be surprised to find out the kind of guys who can club seal pups to death might be fairly violent and nasty.

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But why not attack this at the Demand end, and therefore do an "end-around" past all the economic need type arguements?

I suggest groups of activists patrolling ritzy sections of European cities and New York, when they spot someone wearing seal fur they should club the person -you could use nerf bats so it might be Assault but not with a real weapon and then there is no "violence hypocrisy".

Film these actions and blast them over youtube or something.

It could be a great funny-serious way to expose this whole thing, and most importantly, focus all debate on the jerk-off rich who are the market for fur and away from poor fishermen trying to scrape by- just as this article does.

I'm sure this greed-pig thus "injured" will call in the cop-pigs and raise holy hell, but what would shed more light on this than a high-profile trial of the "Nerf-Bat People-Clubbers"?

Hell, every time Canada or Russia or Namibia initiates their b.s. "culling" activists could call down a counter culling! Only of rich, fur-wearing scumbags instead of infant sea-mammals.

It could be great:

"The Rich have depleted our supply of Botox and beachfront property, their numbers must be reduced!"

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The point is, I don't think the common People will ever be moved by the whole "poor-little babies" tactic as long as there is a "poor-little humans" economic and food supply counter-arguement.

And the "It's not our right to fish or hurt other species" extreme Vegan near-Jainist argument is a non-starter, both because almost everyone thinks in a more "Darwinian" only-the-strong-survive kinda way, and because the rampant Moral Superiority attitude of most of the extreme Vegan near-Jainists is so obvious and such a turn off.

It should go without saying (writing) that gloating over the deaths of working class fishermen is not just counter-productive, but actually a little disturbing and a bit crazy.

But lots of people hate Rich Greed-Pig Jerkoffs rubbing their privilege in everbody's face- let's pick on them instead and see if we get better results, o.k.?

-matti.

It would be nice if nobody would buy the coats made by the furs. But, as long as some have the money, it will never happen. Just one more sad and sorry story in today's sad and sorry world.
I live in rural North Dakota---land of the mighty great white hunters---and I try to preach against the hunting of coyotes, but to no avail. People come up with thousands of reasons to justify killing them. Some, you wouldn't even believe. But, here, it really just amounts to killing something, and the fun of hunting an animal as smart as the coyote. And, killing it. Some people like to kill; plain and simple.
Why are we at war today? Same reasoning; money, power, and liking to kill. Only in Iraq, the ultimate prey is man.
And we are "civilized"?

I am deeply ashamed at the actions of my fellow canucks in this regard.. please don't use a big brush and paint ALL of us Canadians as barbarians..

There is and continues a large denunciation of the seal harvest here and abroad.

The politcos here as in the states, are afraid to upset the cart for fear of losing votes.

like the groundswell of opposition to the war the vast majority want the seal ''hunt'' to end but most politicos pull a Chenny and say ''so?''

When this happens the world weaps, you don't have to see it to Know and feel there are some very ugly aspects. This exemplifies mans relationship to nature.

No one "likes" the seal hunt. These workers would much rather be engaged in safer activities and better remunerated ones. The issue is bigger than many of you allow for. The social forces that shape people who define their lives in such a way that permits them to prosecute this hunt have to do with the economic hierarchies that most of us, myself included, benefit from; namely, those that privilege logocentric abilities.
You cannot change their cultural context with your flimsy moralizing. Their forefathers were once forced to do this from sheer hunger; they cannot be made to see their destinies as much different, even with an SUV in their backyard. That will take generations. Do some homework on Newfoundland's and Cape Breton's oppressive histories and then condemn, if you still can.

Or read this with a bit more sympathy than kelmer is capable of. In other words, as just one more example in the annals of these people's suffering:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/03/29/capsized...

It's the same old song. Another species is being carefully managed into extinction. We obliterated the unimaginably large cod stocks with careful quotas. On the West coast we're expertly destroying temperate rainforest and the salmon fishery. There's always some smiling university educated goon telling us that according to the figures the 'cull' is manageable. That they are always wrong is not taught in their classes. If it seems wrong to the uneducated to slaughter a quarter million of something at once THAT"S BECAUSE IT IS! Canada has less and less to be proud of every day.

I have followed this since the hunt shot up again in 95.
Basically this is what happened. The government and fishermen wiped out cod--so they blamed the seals. They found that Russian liked the coats for prostitutes and China liked seal penises as an aphrodisiac(hands up if you werent aware that China had an impotency problem).

This was really a way for the government to deflect blame for what they did with cod.
I cant say they mismanaged it--since as a vegan, I know that only sea dwelling creatures have a moral right to eat fish and humans cant even manage their own species. Obviously they would fuck things up because honestly, that's what humans do best. When humans grow gills-maybe they can talk differently.

Slaughterhouses are horrible but that doesnt defend sealing. Its like saying, yeah, homocide in the US is bad but, look at what's happening in Iraq? Its just an excuse. Both are unjustifiable.

And to say they need to kill seals to save cod? That is a fool's argument. Why arent we then killing Brazillian farmers for destroying rain forest? Or executing Monsanto for poisoning the food supply? That is far worse to the planet.
Talk about human supremacy bullshit. Leave cod to the lifeforms thatw ere meant to eat it and things will be ok. Nature is a big girl(or thing-whatever it is). It can take care of itself.

The preferred method of killing seals remains a spiked club(bullets cost too much). They drive the spike into the skulls. As early as 96 there were reports of seals being skinned alive. Even the sealers admitted it on CBC television.

Unfortunately, even when Martin Sheen and Paul Watson went on the ice and almost got killed by human loving sealers there wasnt much media coverage. It doesnt help that hunter backed organizations like the WWF support the hunt. And that the Inuit, hypocrites who on one hand say they want their traditions but still use Western technology, are right there supporting it, even if most arent doing the killing.

Inuit and other so called tribal groups that support a hunt where they use western technology and want to sell their products to non Inuit people lose all claim of being able to say they just want to live like in the old days(and Inuit arent even true natives of the North since they need tools and hides to survive--they arent natural inhabitants like bears and seals--when they can get an infant inuit to survive in the climate without a coat or igloo-then they can say differently).

There are many visually horrendous acts that humans commit against members of other species, but leave it to "peaceful Canada to provide us with one of the most striking).

Anyway
the good news is 4 sealers drowned today.
Made my day. Dont believe the stories about how compassionate sealers are.

Even in the old days, sealers were considered despicable and a low profession, even among whalers. They deserve as much sympathy as slave owners who whipped their slaves.

Four men sleeping below deck when ship overturned while being towed by Coast Guard

Mar 29, 2008 10:26 AM
THE CANADIAN PRESS

HALIFAX–Divers recovered the bodies of three seal hunters from a fishing vessel that capsized early Saturday and were searching the icy waters of the Gulf of St. Lawrence for a fourth man..

The 12-metre vessel from the Iles de la Madeleine in Quebec, carrying a crew of six, had reported steering problems late Friday and was being towed by a Canadian Coast Guard light icebreaker when it flipped...

Navy Lt. Lora Collier said two seal hunters were pulled from water soon after the boat rolled over and were reported in good condition...

Later, four search and rescue technicians recovered the bodies from the boat about 70 kilometres north of Cape Breton..

She said it's not clear if the missing man was swept overboard..

"We have recovered three deceased from the fishing vessel, so one currently remains missing," she said from Halifax, adding that she did not know the men's names. "The search is continuing..."

A Hercules search-and-rescue aircraft and a Cormorant helicopter from 14 Wing Greenwood, N.S., were fanning out along a grid pattern to search for the remaining crewman..

Meanwhile, the disabled fishing boat was secured alongside the 83-metre coast guard vessel Sir William Alexander..

It wasn't clear what caused the vessel to capsize, but thick ice was reportedly hampering fishing boats as they set out on the opening day of the annual seal hunt..

The two sealers who were rescued were above decks, while the other four men were sleeping below deck when the boat flipped, Collier said..

A helicopter was expected to pick them up and fly them back to the Iles de la Madeleine, she said..

The ill-fated boat was one of about 16 carrying 100 hunters that headed out from the Iles de la Madeleine, steaming toward a large herd of seals in the Cabot Strait between Nova Scotia and Newfoundland..

Three sealing vessels were reported to be struggling in heavy ice conditions late Friday night off Cape Breton – two taking in some water and the other suffering mechanical problems..

What can I say ?

The North Americans have a bad habit of killing people and other animals !

I thought this was going to be a story about hockey.

Anyhow, to play devil's advocate for a bit, if the killing of the seals stops today what happens when the seals grow up and eat the fish that humans haven't caught yet? The grand banks are already at a point where the cod fishery has collapsed due to overfishing, and cod are a favorite food for seals. Shooting them would be more humain, but clubbing them to death is quicker than other methods of harvesting fur. In case you don't know, most wild fur is still harvested by snares (the animal either suffocates to death, or starves if it's the foot that gets caught in the snare), for the captive animal bred for its fur their lives and deaths aren't much better. You want to talk about barbarism, go to a slaughterhouse after getting your daily bacon and eggs, ever worked at a meat plant that processes animals and prepares things like smoked bacon? Hickory smoked bacon is bacon that has rotted so badly that it can't be eaten without the smoke (it still gets sold, and eaten by us)...

It's also a luxury issue isn't it? How many of us can afford to buy a fur coat? If I wanted to I wouldn't be able to pay for it. The rich will have their wants seen to, and the rest of us will work like happy bees to provide them the spoils of their ill gotten gains...

I wish someone would club the sealers; let them see how it feels. Fucking barbarians.

Alcyon,

Why don't we just we designate certain people to be untouchables and assign those people the task of doing unpleasant work like slaughtering animals...oh wait, that's been done.

Much of what you say is correct, but we won't solve the problems you outline above by attacking sealers. We know where the wealth is being concentrated, does that mean that ordinary people are any closer to liberating some of that wealth? Are they any closer in your country? From what I can see the concentration of wealth has increased dramatically in the United States in the last 7 years. It has in Canada as well, do you want to compete over who is the "baddest", or should we try and get something done. Explain to me how attacking sealers is going hurt the people who are at the root of the environmental and economic problems in both countries.

Canada may rank 4th in greenhouse gas emissions, but my family is actually greenhouse gas negative. Are you going to blame ordinary people like me for Canada'a ranking or are you going to target the people and corporations who are really responsible? What does it serve to attack people who are struggling to make ends meet? Targeting people like the sealers only serves to cause divisions between people who need to unite to take on those with the real power.

I have read a few things on the website attached to your name and I found them very interesting. If that is your work, it is good.

However, in your above statement you do have a few things wrong. First of all, the seal fishery is sustainable, even though it may be distasteful. Secondly, we can't rely on the wild fisheries any more as many have callapsed, are collapsing, or are on the verge of collapse depending on which part one is talking about. About the only healthy wild fisheries we have left are the seals and the lobsters, and there are some people who are giving warnings about the lobster fishery. Fish farming is another matter.

As well, Canadian agriculture is on the verge of complete collapse, with the exception of the grain farmers, mostly as a result of the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement and international agribusiness. So we won't have that industry much longer except in the form of large corporate style farms, which leads us back to concentration of wealth and as well as vertical integration. As well, agriculture, generally, is already sustainable.

There are many people in Canada who are trying to do something about the economic inequalities, but they are up against the same kind of things you are up against in your country. It is not easy and it is a lifetime's work. Just don't blame the working people for what they have to do to make a living.

Best wishes,