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Where Are The Iraqis in The Iraq War?
Five years after the US invasion and occupation of Iraq, mainstream media is once more making the topic an object of intense scrutiny. The costs and implications of the war are endlessly covered from all possible angles, with one notable exception -- the cost to the Iraqi people themselves.
Through all the special coverage and exclusive reports, very little is said about Iraqi casualties, who are either completely overlooked or hastily mentioned and whose numbers can only be guesstimated. Also conveniently ignored are the millions injured, internally and externally displaced, the victims of rape and kidnappings who will carry physical and psychological scars for the rest of their lives.
We find ourselves stuck in a hopeless paradigm, where it feels necessary to empathise with the sensibilities of the aggressor so as not to sound "unpatriotic", while remaining blind to the untold anguish of the victims. Some actually feel the need to go so far as to blame the Iraqis for their own misfortune. Both Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have expressed their wish for Iraqis to take responsibility for the situation in their country, with the former saying, "we cannot win their civil war. There is no military solution." It would have been helpful if Clinton had reached her astute conclusion before she voted for the Senate's 2002 resolution authorising President Bush to attack Iraq. For the sake of argument, let's overlook both Clinton's and Obama's repeated assertions that all options, including military ones, are on the table regarding how to "deal" with Iran's alleged ambition to acquire nuclear weapons. But to go so far as blaming the ongoing war on the Iraqis' lack of accountability is a new low for these "antiwar" candidates.
Is it still a secret, five years on, that the war on Iraq was fought for strategic reasons, to maintain a floundering superpower's control over much of the world's energy supplies and to sustain the regional supremacy of Israel, the US's most costly ally anywhere?
Of course, there are those who prefer to imagine a world in which a well-intentioned superpower would fight with all of its might to enable another smaller, distant nation to enjoy the fruits of liberty, democracy and freedom. But it is nothing short of ridiculous to pretend that Iraqis are capable of controlling the parameters of the ranging conflict, that a puppet government whose election and operation is entirely under the command of the US military is capable of taking charge and assuming responsibilities. Equally absurd is the insinuation that the civil war in Iraq is an exclusively Iraqi doing, and that the US military has not deliberately planted the seeds of divisions, hoping to reinterpret its role in Iraq from that of the occupier to that of the arbitrator, making sure the "good" guys prevail over the "bad".
The idea of the US making an immediate exit from Iraq or taking full financial and legal responsibility for the devastation and genocide -- yes, genocide -- that occurred in the last five years is simply unthinkable from the viewpoint of the corporate US media, which still relates to the war only in terms of American (and never Iraqi) losses.
There are very few commentators who are actually arguing that the reasons for war were entirely self-serving, without an iota of morality behind them. Would Bush employ the same logic he used to justify Saddam Hussein's execution -- suggesting this was warranted by the Iraqi president's violence against his own people -- when dealing with those responsible for the deaths of over a million Iraqis as a result of this war?
And indeed Iraqis are dying in numbers that never subside regardless of the media and official hype about the "surge". Just Foreign Policy says the number of dead Iraqis has surpassed one million, while a survey by the British polling agency ORB estimates the number at over 1.2 million. But the plight of Iraqis hardly ends at a death count, since those left behind endure untold suffering: soaring poverty, unemployment rates between 40-70 per cent (governmental estimates), total lack of security in major cities and, according to Oxfam International, four million in need of emergency aid.
"Baghdad has become the most dangerous city in the world, largely as a result of a US policy of pitting various Iraqi ethnic and sectarian groups against one another. Today, Baghdad is a city of walled-off Sunni and Shia ghettoes, divided by concrete walls erected by the US military," reports Dahr Jamail, one of the few courageous voices that honestly relayed the horrendous outcomes of the war.
Indeed, there seem to be no promising statistics coming out of Iraq. Even under the previous regime and the debilitating sanctions imposed by the US and the UN, Iraqis were much better off prior to the war. Now, Iraqis are relevant only as pawns of endless US government propaganda. From the viewpoint of Bush, McCain and Cheney, they are the victims of Al-Qaeda, which must be fought at all costs. From the viewpoint of Clinton and Obama, they need to fight their own wars and take responsibility for them, as if Iraqi "irresponsibility" is the main problem. In yet another "surprise visit" to Iraq by a US official, Vice-President Dick Cheney declared that Iraq was a "successful endeavour". Considering the exorbitant contracts granted to selected corporations, the war has indeed succeeded in making a few already rich companies and individuals a lot richer. Meanwhile, Shlomo Brom, a senior fellow at Tel Aviv University's Institute for National Security Studies and former head of the Israeli army's Strategic Planning Division, sees things from a slightly different angle. "Any Iraq will be better than Iraq under Saddam, because the Iraq of Saddam had the ability to threaten Israel," he was quoted as saying in the Christian Science Monitor.
In considering such skewed logic, one can only hope that Cheney's successful experiment will end soon, and that Israel's desire for security is now sated. The people of Iraq cannot tolerate any more "success".
Ramzy Baroud (www.ramzybaroud.net) is an author and editor of PalestineChronicle.com. His work has been published in many newspapers and journals worldwide. His latest book is The Second Palestinian Intifada: A Chronicle of a People's Struggle (Pluto Press, London).
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59 Comments so far
Show AllThe old American saying "that he only good Indian is a dead one" has a new ring to it: "the only good Muslim is a dead one."
We live in one crazy humongous hegemonic empire. As the apocalypse nears consider your options.
Imperialism, war crimes and racism often go hand in hand.
The American mindset is egocentric, ethnocentric and delusional which makes it very difficult to understand the suffering of others.
An immoral people cannot understand the logic of morality. We, as a people, have lost our moral compass. I am deeply, deeply ashamed and embarrassed.
Barack Obama has correctly summarized McCain's position on American forces remaining in Iraq: It's that 1) We can't start to leave because violence in Iraq is up (whenever that fits the latest news headline), or 2) We can't start to leave because violence in Iraq is down (whenever that fits the latest news headline.)
Heads we stay. Tails we stay. Progress we stay. Lack of progress we stay.
Why would Americans care about how many Iraqis died (for whatever reasons)?
Like rest of the Americans, Hillary, Baraq, John, George, Dick, Donald and others are the benefactors of Iraq war, which apparently killed (and continue to kill) "Unknown" number of Iraqis.
American military killed (you may or may not like to call that "Genocide") over 5 million Vietnamese. That's just from the history books written by non-Americans. American voters are not gonna say something as bad as "Genocide" when American government must conduct wars abroad for national interests.
Then, why would Americans care about how many Vietnamese died (for whatever reasons)?
American voters are never gonna believe that American government ever committed "Genocide" in Japan by dropping nuclear bombs! That's just Communist propaganda, American voters will think.
http://mwcnews.net/content/view/17066/42/
What's happening in Iraq is the same that is happening in parts of Africa. The US empire is expanding, conveniently on top of the oil it needs to continue expanding. As for the Iraqis themselves, they will be divided and conquered. That's the standard method when you intend to use some of the survivors to help you rule. Our history is full of our imperial puppets.
Hoa binh
American voters will think.
That's the problem; American voters by the millions DON'T think. By the millions these poorly informed and uneducated people prove over and over again that the predominant human emotion is fear. Play on that fear, as George Wanker Bush and his thugs have proven for the last seven years, and you'll waltz into office. John Wanker McCain will win the presidency for precisely the same reason and through precisely the same methods. This nation has been going down the toilet since the assassination of John Kennedy: the Warren Commission, the Vietnam War, Watergate, Reagan, Beirut, Iran Contra, George Herbert Wanker Bush, Clinton, GATT, NAFTA and now the Criminal Moron and Supreme Punk, George Wanker Bush. There is no end to this parade of eye-popping, jaw-dropping stupidity.
If a nation, that one supposedly belongs to, acts in complete contradiction to your personal morals, is it still your nation? I am at home on this continent but very disturbed by the human beasts that squat here.
I was discussing the current invasion and occupation of Iran, with someone I considered fairly centrist politically.. after expressing my views about it and the general direction the American Government was headed.. this centrist floored me by saying'' you sure must read some way out there ,(get this) RIGHT WING propaganda''....
/sigh..
as someone once said (wish i could recall who)
''NEVER underestimate the power of stupidity..it has moved the world''
It still bothers me when our "Christian" nation laments the deaths of 4000 of its citizens, but doesn't bother to mention the million or so (still unclear on the number since it seems to change study to study) Iraqis who have died and continue to die every day.
Bush, our born-again president, stands by his assertion that he is protecting us (a verifiable lie), but he seems to have forgotten that killing someone for your own safety is highly un-Christian. Jesus said that. Instead, according to the Bible, you should die first, not only for your brother, but for your enemy as well. Whew. Can you imagine America Ever being a Christian nation like it claims? Not likely. Therefore, let the Oil Wars continue since the "morals" party has abandoned its tenets.
They're in submarines Saddam bought from "AFRICA" and they're coming to kill all of us.
What's the problem? After all this great country was founded on pillars of (native American) genocide.
Americans are superior in value to Iraqis. That is what the politicians, media and much of the public thinks.
Just like Canadians are current massacring 250 000 infant seals with spiked clubs.
Its the myth of supremacy what makes the world go round.
Mr. Baroud the night our fascist pig dictator announced the commencement of the first 21st century blitzkrieg - Shock and Awe - I felt I was falling off a precipice and I could not see the bottom towards which I was falling.
I was not thinking of American soldiers, but with every explosion flashing on the TV screen, of the Iraqis on the ground. So much death and destruction, so much suffering.
If I believed in God and divine retribution, I suppose I'd be expecting the complete annihilation of America at any moment.
They're in submarines bought from Africa and they're coming to kill all of us.
This comment is exceptionally funny.
...and they're coming to kill all of us?
I thought that America already died and it's rotting corps is poluting the world.
"Baghdad curfew extended indefinitely" - welcome to the Neo-American Century.
The mantra of uncivilized barbarians engaged in endless religious civil war is a lie. As in Jugoslavia the US does it's best to set groups that have lived peaceably against each other but there is an active secular resistance in Iraq that we don't hear about because they want us OUT of their country.
I just read an article in today's LA Times about a White House aide who resigned for "alleged wrongdoing" because he apparently "used grant monies improperly" at an earlier job.
I have news for the LA Times. The President and Vice President are guilty of the Supreme War Crime of War of Aggression. It has resulted in the deaths and maiming of millions of people.
Maybe that should be mentioned in the paper ahead of "using grant monies improperly" at a previous job by an aide.
Bush, Cheney and their crowd belong in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives in a maximum security prison.
America, a Christian nation? In name only. America loves war or at least those who profit from it do.
The balance of the nation must be brain-dead. Why else would its citizens watch their country's leaders doing the terrible things they're doing in the world yet do nothing?
300 million people are going to destroy our world and for what? So they can drive Hummers!
Sadly, my 'Epitaph for Mankind' rings true.
www.dangerouscreation.com
The last Iraqi standing will be the father of the country. And America will move on to Venezula to fill up the Imperial Express which is actually in a rapid suicidal decline. But most Americans still believe our elected politicians are trying to build a better country. If they could see outside the box they would see America is the leader of an empire and that our politicians answer to corporate America, not the American people. The Constitution is being used to try and build an empire instead of country.
Hoa binh
Those seals carry rabies.
The neoCONs so flatter the common American by stealing away their civil and constitutional rights, as thieves in the night might do (for something of real value).
Once we get over the assault of being violated,
we should ALL be so proud that our rights used to be something so valuable, worthy of nefarious theft.
It kind of reminds us of how far we've fallen
But then again, perhaps we haven't fallen down, but just stumbled for a while. Perhaps the govt's brain wave modulation experiments (purposeful pacification via programmed lethargy & matching propaganda) are warring thin on too many progressively minded thinkers ?
There aught to be a law that it's illegal to program the American's people's thinking, just for purely political and personal avarice and power manipulation. As if any control should be tolerated. Please see here for undeniable proof of govt's proven techniques to program people, like one might do to a computer with the proper software.
Remember the anti-riot Heat ray Microwave Active Denial System = MADS, that looks like this:
Remember the anti-riot Heat ray Microwave Active Denial System = MADS, that looks like this:
KEM -- With proper programming, this will look just like Cinderella's pumpkin coach, with a dozen prancing horses and 2 coachmen and all the accouterments.
Chrome wheels hubs are easy to do, what is harder is making it disappear from the publics awareness, just like a stolen election.
Did you listen/watch the videos on the link (Angels don't play this HAARP)?
Namaste
Neat shit there, look better with chrome wheels though.
What would happen if you held up a mirror made reflective metallic foil?
Rebelnow -- What you mention is a crude "Faraday cage", and would act as a shield to eliminate line-of-sight radiation. Tin foil hats are now back in vogue, but one really needs a full-surround helmet for full efficacy.
With wavelength being sub-millimeter, it acts much as FM radio when passing under a bridge (compared to AM radio's interruption from much longer wavelength), the beam can be focused to various distances and spread across a broad angle area.
I'm more worried about the types of modulation available to twist my perceptions and thinking, than just the heating impacts, as burning one's skin is at least something we have the ability to recognize.
Rebelnow -- reflective return of the nastiness would not be practical, due to the use of complex phased-array beam steering methods at the source, as well as the extremely focused (but rapidly scanning) beam being only a fraction of a degree wide (accurate return would require something like arc-second targeting (where 1 deg = 60 arc-minutes = 3600 arc-seconds)
Please read of the research on our govt's use of electromagnetic weapons and human rights
Here's the full article: here
Namaste
I cannot do video's on my computer anymore ~NAMASTE~, got a glitch and haven't had it fixed yet.
This "ray gun" for croud control is scary stuff and I understand it can be used from long distances, perhaps even from a manned or un-manned, orbiting, silent aircraft. I was joking about the chrome wheels. But they would dress it up a bit, put some "fox" tails on the antennas too.
We watched a demostration of it's use on TV last week, a high ranking government official in the legal field wanted to see how it worked and had them ZAP her. They gave her a low dose which she found to be very uncomftorable. She then asked for a full dose which was delevered. She grabbed herself and fell over on her side and yelled to stop. Afterwards she laughed about it, but if it had been the real thing with a large group of legal protestors, I doubt if any would be laughing during the panic which would surely ensue.
Edit please
There is plenty of blame to go around, beginning with the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Wolfowitz axis of evil and their congressional enablers and extending to the factions within Iraq, both govermental and civilian, who have perpetuated violence and human rights violations in pursuit of political power. There are also good guys around the world, including in Iraq, who have raised their voices and even risked (or lost) their lives to advance peace and the rule of law.
MORDECHAI
with all these abundant 'wankers' i'm surprised (and disappointed) they haven't 'wanked' themselves to death......................
Once we invade a country because of despotic dictator, then its Venezuela because Chavez doesn't agree with our aggression. Let's see we did Grenada, and Panama. Then after Venezuela, its on to Cuba. Once you cross the line and start wars and invade countries, it gets easier every time.
KEM -- Dr. Nick Begich is the guy speaking on the videos, and he was also interviewed (p32) in the referenced full article above in my posing of March 29th, 2008 6:46 pm.
The potential (and actual) damages are far worse than I ever could have imagined, and the missing information and novel techniques of obfustication (avoidance of FOIA requests, via privatizing the research) are making it nearly impossible to discover what is really going on deep under the cover of the blackest of the CIA black Ops.
The same Dr. Nick Begich has been very successful in having the EU pass restrictions on potential Electo-Magnetic radiations (directed energy) human right violations, but no one in the USA govt is even faintly interested in having the public hearings that we need.
Everyone needs to git up to speed on this, or risk being on the receiving end of life-threatening supposed non-lethal tools & techniques.
Here's a NEWS FLASH (from article): 500,000 had been unwitting test subjects for military research on non-lethal weapons, including MKULTRA who claims among many victims, Ted Kaczinky, the Unabomber.
Namaste
SIOUXROSE -- I am impressed (again) with your tele-omni-presence of seeing the possible future, as a tool to aid our choices and decisions today.
We are functioning together (to my perception at least) as a meta-consciousness, where we both have our own foundations to the non-physical beingness, along with substantially different life experiences. Nonetheless, we merge into standing under this perpetual folly of humankind (to toast once again, the seeds of the garden of Eden)
I have a profound sense of dread with directed energy weapons, as I started in high energy physics (electron beam) research, and now retain an understanding of that coupled along with 3-decades of parallel work with high energy microwaves.
I'm certain that almost all of thge scientists and engineers involve feel similar as the man quoted within, saying (in part): John Norseen, a neuroscientist interested in Biofusion, the relationship between humans and computers, says, "If this research pans out you can begin to manipulate what someone is thinking even before they know it." Norseen says he is agnostic on the moral ramifications of this research. He feels that he is not a "mad" scientist - just a dedicated one. "The ethics don't concern me," he says, "but they should concern someone else."146
Hells Bells on wheels, the Gods of hell-fire are upon us
(with chrome wheels, too).
Namaste
P.S. I thought of you today while reading about (adult) Indigos, and how some believe that they are simultaneously influenced by all 12 houses - which might explain how my wife and I share the same sign.
NAMASTE: I just read the long article, interesting stuff. What human depravity can do with any and every resource is itself telling for sheer sadism alone.
Just as the iceberg only reveals about 10% of its own structure, it's purported that we humans use about 10% of our brains. So what goes on in the other 90% of unused "files"? Mystics believe we carry soul memory, and if that is so, it can explain how a mind like Tesla's senses that invisible essence so few understand.
Ted Turner sponsored a literary contest back in l990 that invited writers to submit visions of the future, a more hopeful future. I felt this work channeled through me in that my daughters were pretty young and I had to get them to school before 8 AM every day; yet as soon as I went to bed, it was like something else "knocked" and I had to get up and take down what felt to me like "automatic dictation." The book, like peering into all aspects of society in 2020 AD has recently been self-published; but of relevance to this article is I was given the vision of something I named a "telekinetic monitor," and it my rendering it was to be used for peaceful purposes to develop the mind. It involved a telepathic interplay between projected thoughts/thought forms and their visionary equivalents on the computer screen. The computer would function as the blank slate where one could meet their own issues and see potential outplays (and where each would ultimately lead) before "arriving" at any actual behavior and thus materializing/manifesting the results of those specific thoughts.
This technology could be of great use in educational settings... leave it to our military to prove the interface between the unconscious portions of the mind and any and every way to destroy individuals. It is possible only when large groups identify with a series of acceptable human values, and cast those who live for different expressions as bad, evil, worthy of being destroyed.
The experiment (I can never forget this one) that portrayed 61% of participants being willing to HARM another on a 3rd person's indication, this propensity to BE a sheep and follow someone else's orders... that may be the most chilling facet of the human psyche, particularly in times like ours when the sociopaths ARE at the wheel defining for too many, the global course.
It's obvious the machine has been used on the Democrats in Congress. Democrats are forced to drink the Koolaid and listen to the music. It is a process whereby Dim's become Repugs, and Repug's become Fascists. Somebody needs to get a machine to a comedian quick.
The invasion of Irag was a crime. A crime against human life in Iraq and everywhere else. The death and destruction released on the Iraqi people, does in certain ways looks to be the work or works of one or more, very sick minds. It doesn't matter that the invaders are members of the International War Crimes Court or not. http://www.bushcommission.org/ This act in the play must end with the players being brought to justice before they depart this earth, not after. It is time to stop flying the flag of war. The revolution is over.
D n G -- Like fried'ay night at the improv ?
If the USA had not illegally invaded and occupied a sovereign nation in violation of all international and domestic law, there wowuld be no civil war in iraq today.
but at least bush got rid of Saddams torture chambers and rape rooms....and replaced them with his own.
I bet most iraqis look back on Saddams rapes and tortures with nostalgia
and hell, only a million dead civilians, and several million refugees...its not like they were AMERICAN or anything, so they dont really count.
GOD DAMN THE USA TO THE HELL IT HAS CREATED
Remember Vietnam. It was the American machine that was fighting the North Vietnamens and Viet Cong forces while most of the population supported them. Nixon's Vietnamization turned out to be a flop. At least Nixon was smart enough to cut his losses and get out. The next president should just get out of Iraq.
Great article, Mr. Baroud. We invaded Iraq without their asking us to, and now we think they aren't helping enough?
This Bush War will be a stain on our country forever.
NAMASTE: Thank you for your powerful response. I always wonder where mankind would be if the same amount of energy that's been directed at all sorts of weapons was instead channeled into creative aspects of life and living (not to mention transcending the artificial divides, those sticky ism divisions used to separate people over the centuries, a basis for acquired divisiveness that when "necessary" can spill over into war).
From Gordon Michael Scallion's ("Notes from the Cosmos") clairvoyant reckonings of civilization long ago on the planet Mars, to Edgar Cayce's warnings about bio-engineering and how its roots went back to the Atlanteans who misued it... I have always seen the dark direction these technologies are moving in, and the inevitable place they lead. It's just a shame that mankind repeats its errors, even the ones lodged so deep in the collective consciousness as to emerge merely as "fictional" writings and "fantasies."
Many same sun signs marry... but remember, the birth blueprint is a mirror of the planetary positions--the sky--at the moment of your birth. It's a mandala, like the heavens within, and each principle (planet) operates as a sort of dialog within your being. Just as the various gods/goddesses from the Ancient pantheon (myths) held certain antipathies and certain alliances, it is TRUE that some principles accord while others do not. Within the individual, these pulls on consciousness and behavior provide us with a basis for personal growth. It's always about overcoming our selfish impulses. On a collective level, these energetic patterns impact nations and help to determine their courses. I have explained what happens when too much allegiance is directed at Mars. On the personal level we get egos like Dick Cheney who could care-less about any other life form. On a national level, we get a military budget that cannibalizes all money away from far worthier investments. To the extent a society identifies with war as heroism, sports as macho grand conquests, self-interest over societal good will, ego over spirit, we see a great deal laid to waste. America is now the poster child for a world off course, a zone where the center cannot hold... it has laid its blessings down to the god of destruction, but lies and calls it a Christian nation. Maybe Jesus will show up to right the delusions. In one of my favorite book series, "The Wisdom and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East," there is a scene that took place (according to educated writers on a long trip through Asia) where the guardians of the 3 major religions did appear in spirit and were seen by all present to bring a necessary lesson.
With the wrong people now gaining the keys to brain waves and gene banks, one almost hopes Mother Nature will cleanse the slate... there is already so much broken, so much rendered radioactive, so much spoiled that all the lifetimes this great Earth can present to us in the form of a nurturing nest, might not be enough to satisfy the karmic tab of the ones running our beloved planet, and potentially humane societies into the ground. We have come to the close of the Age of martyrs and must learn to put down our arms and join hands if ever the circle of humanity is to rise again from the ashes of near destruction.
SIOUXROSE -- Humankindred spirit is growing abundantly stronger and draws contrast from the dissolute dominion of our demons (egos rapacity unbounded).
It is the consonance of the very circle of life that allows this spiral of increasingly edged CHOICE, to be rung harmoniously for those willing to hear, to see and act appropriately.
We ARE our CHOICES that WE ALLOWED (Aligned upon our being & joyous feelings)
We ARE our ENVISIONED DREAMS of greatness ACHIEVED
Or, NOT D E C I D E ___ N O W
( & each moment, again … )
Namaste
It's hard to hand over the controls to Iraq when bush and cheney won't let anyone else behind the wheel.
"I always wonder where mankind would be if the same amount of energy that's been directed at all sorts of weapons was instead channeled into creative aspects of life and living" --Siouxrose March 30th, 2008 9:06 am
The people who voted for George Bush, and a lot of other people, are too dull to imagine what they are missing. I was thinking just yesterday how with $3 our yards would be gardens and our cities would be like arboretums. The people, educated and interested in the world, would be infinitely more palatable.
But maybe your vision is not the same as mine. It doesn't matter. With three trillion dollars you can paint any picture you like.
It's not merely the misery that the U.S. exports. It's our failure, unlike the great success story of our brave troops, to be all that we can be. Few of us appreciate how much we are missing.
Out, stoopy stoops! Bring every American!
No phased withdrawal. Get em out as fast
as you can, dummies! And never mind honor.
You never had any anyway. It would help if you would explain to the world that you
not only have been very stupid all along, but you still ARE stupid, and you don't want to be quite as stupid tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow, which is creeping into this petty place.
Don't worry about the 29 buildings of the embassy-- bowling alleys and casinos-- but not our problem. Let the people who are there (if still alive) figure it out.
And let those people not include A SINGLE AMERICAN.
There is a lot to admire about both Barack and Hillary. They are lacking, however, in the declarative department.
One or the other needs to declare that he or she will bring all the Americans out and not in a fiddle-faddle phasey-crazy way.
It is my speculation that if one would do this, the other would follow. But if neither does it I'm not inclined to vote for either. I argue that this is this most sensible, mature and sober viewpoint available.