All American progressives should unite for Barack Obama. We descend from the proud tradition of independent social movements that have made America a more just and democratic country. We believe that the movement today supporting Barack Obama continues this great tradition of grass-roots participation drawing millions of people out of apathy and into participation in the decisions that affect all our lives. We believe that Barack Obama's very biography reflects the positive potential of the globalization process that also contains such grave threats to our democracy when shaped only by the narrow interests of private corporations in an unregulated global marketplace. We should instead be globalizing the values of equality, a living wage and environmental sustainability in the new world order, not hoping our deepest concerns will be protected by trickle down economics or charitable billionaires. By its very existence, the Obama campaign will stimulate a vision of globalization from below.
As progressives we believe this sudden and unexpected new movement is just what America needs. The future has arrived. The alternative would mean a return to the dismal status quo party politics that have failed so far to deliver peace, health care, full employment and effective answers to crises like global warming.
During past progressive peaks in our political history-the late Thirties, the early Sixties-social movements have provided the relentless pressure and innovative ideas that allowed centrist leaders to embrace visionary solutions. We find ourselves in just such a situation today.
We intend to join and engage with our brothers and sisters in the vast rainbow of social movements to come together in support of Obama's unprecedented campaign and candidacy. Even though it is candidate-centered, there is no doubt that the campaign is a social movement, one greater than the candidate himself ever imagined.
Progressives can make a difference in close primary races like Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Oregon, Puerto Rico, and in the November general election. We can contribute our dollars. We have the proven online capacity to reach millions of swing voters in the primary and general election. We can and will defend Obama against negative attacks from any quarter. We will seek Green support against the claim of some that there are no real differences between Obama and McCain. We will criticize any efforts by Democratic super-delegates to suppress the winner of the popular and delegate votes, or to legitimize the flawed elections in Michigan and Florida. We will make our agenda known at the Democratic national convention and fight for a platform emphasizing progressive priorities as the path to victory.
Obama's March 17 speech on racism was as great a speech as ever given by a presidential candidate, revealing a philosophical depth, personal authenticity, and political intelligence that should convince any but the hardest of ideologues that he carries unmatched leadership potentials for overcoming the divide-and-conquer tactics which have sundered Americans since the first slaves arrived here in chains.
Only words? What words they were.
However, the fact that Barack Obama openly defines himself as a centrist invites the formation of this progressive force within his coalition. Anything less could allow his eventual drift towards the right as the general election approaches. It was the industrial strikes and radical organizers in the 1930s who pushed Roosevelt to support the New Deal. It was the civil rights and student movements that brought about voting rights legislation under Lyndon Johnson and propelled Eugene McCarthy and Bobby Kennedy's anti-war campaigns. It was the original Earth Day that led Richard Nixon to sign environmental laws. And it will be the Obama movement that makes it necessary and possible to end the war in Iraq, renew our economy with a populist emphasis, and confront the challenge of global warming.
We should not only keep the pressure on, but we also should connect the issues that Barack Obama has made central to his campaign into an overarching progressive vision.
- The Iraq War must end as rapidly as possible, not in five years. All our troops must be withdrawn. Diplomacy and trade must replace further military occupation or military escalation into Iran and Pakistan. We should not stop urging Barack Obama to avoid leaving American advisers behind in Iraq in a counterinsurgency quagmire like Afghanistan today or Central America in the 1970s and 1980s. Nor should he simply transfer American combat troops from the quagmire in Iraq to the quagmire in Afghanistan.
- Iraq cannot be separated from our economic crisis. Iraq is costing trillions of dollars that should be invested in jobs, universal health care, education, housing and public works here at home. Our own Gulf Coast requires the attention and funds now spent on Gulf oil.
- Iraq cannot be separated from our energy crisis. We are spending an unheard-of $100/barrel for oil. We are officially committed to wars over oil supplies far into the future. We instead need a war against global warming and for energy independence from Middle Eastern police states and multinational corporations.
Progressives should support Obama's 16-month combat troop withdrawal plan in comparison to Clinton's open-ended one, and demand that both candidates avoid a slide into four more years of low-visibility counterinsurgency.
The Democratic candidates should listen more to the blunt advice of the voters instead of the timid talk of their national security advisers. Two-thirds of American voters, and a much higher percentage of Democrats, oppose this war and favor withdrawal in less than two years, nearly half of them in less than one year. The same percentage believe the war has had a negative effect on life in the United States, while only 15 percent believe the war has been positive. Without this solid peace sentiment, neither Obama nor Clinton would be taking the stands they do today.
Further, the battered and abused people of Iraq favor an American withdrawal by a 70 percent margin.
The American government's arrogant defiance of these strong popular majorities in both America and Iraq should be ended this November by a powerful peace mandate.
The profound transition from the policies of the past will not be easy, and fortunately the Obama campaign is lifted by the fresh wind of change. We seek not only to change the faces in high places, however, but to save our country from slow death by greed, status quo politics, and loss of vision. The status quo cannot stand much longer, neither that of politics-as-usual nor that of our security, energy and economic policies. We are stealing from the next generation's future, and living on borrowed time.
The Bush Administration has replaced the Cold War with the War on Terrorism led by the same military-industrial complex that President Eisenhower warned against. The reality and public fear of terrorism today is no less real than fear of communism and nuclear annihilation a generation ago. But we simply cannot continue multiple military interventions in many Muslim countries without increasing the vast number of violent jihadists against us, bleeding our military and our economy, becoming more dependent on Middle East oil, creating unsavory alliances with police states, shrinking our own civil liberties and putting ourselves at permanent risk of another 9/11 attack.
We need a brave turn towards peace and conflict resolution in the Middle East and the Muslim world. Getting out of Iraq, sponsoring a two-state solution between Israel and the Palestinians, ending alliances with police states in the Arab world, unilaterally initiating real energy independence and moving the world away from the global warming crises are the steps that must be taken.
Nor can we impose NAFTA-style trade agreements on so many nations that seek only to control their own national resources and economic destinies. We cannot globalize corporate and financial power over democratic values and institutions. Since the Clinton Administration pushed through NAFTA against the Democratic majority in Congress, one Latin American nation after another has elected progressive governments that reject US trade deals and hegemony. We are isolated in Latin America by our Cold War and drug war crusades, by the $500 million counter-insurgency in Columbia, support for the 2002 coup attempt in Venezuela, and the ineffectual blockade of Cuba. We need to return to the Good Neighbor policies of Franklin D. Roosevelt in the 1930s, which rejected Yankee military intervention and accepted Mexico's right to nationalize its oil in the face of industry opposition. The pursuit of NAFTA-style trade policies inflames our immigration crisis as well, by uprooting countless campesinos who inevitably seek low-wage jobs north of the border in order to survive. We need balanced and democratically-approved trade agreements that focus on the needs of workers, consumers and the environment. The Banana Republic is a retail chain, not an American colony protected by the Monroe Doctrine.
We are pleased that Hillary Clinton has been responsive to the tide of voter opinion this year, and we applaud the possibility of at last electing an American woman president. But progressives should be disturbed at her duplicitous positions on Iraq and NAFTA. She still denies that her 2002 vote for legislation which was called the war authorization bill was a vote for war authorization. She now promises to "end the war" but will not set a timeline for combat troop withdrawal, and remains committed to leaving tens of thousands of counter-terrorism troops and trainers in Iraq amidst a sectarian conflict. While Obama needs to clarify his own position on counterinsurgency, Clinton's "end the war" rhetoric conceals an open commitment to keep American troops in Iraq until all our ill-defined enemies are defeated-a treadmill which guarantees only the spawning of more enemies. On NAFTA, she claims to have opposed the trade deal behind closed doors when she was First Lady. But the public record, and documents recently disclosed in response to litigation, proves that she was a cheerleader for NAFTA against the strong opposition of rank-and-file Democrats. The Clintons ushered in the Wall Street Democrats whose deregulation ethos has widened inequality while leaving millions of Americans without their rightful protections against market shocks.
Clinton's most bizarre claim is that Obama is unqualified to be commander-in-chief. Clinton herself never served in the military, and has no experience in the armed services apart from the Senate armed services committee. Her husband had no military experience before becoming president. In fact he was a draft opponent during Vietnam, a stance we respected. She was the first lady, and he the governor, of one of our smallest states. They brought no more experience, and arguably less, to the White House than Obama would in 2009.
We take very seriously the argument that Americans should elect a first woman president, and we abhor the surfacing of sexism in this supposedly post-feminist era. But none of us would vote for Condoleeza Rice as either the first woman or first African-American president. We regret that the choice divides so many progressive friends and allies, but believe that a Clinton presidency would be a Clinton presidency all over again, not a triumph of feminism but a restoration of the aging, power-driven Wall Street Democratic Hawks at a moment when so much more fresh imagination is possible and needed. A Clinton victory could only be achieved by the dashing of hope among millions of young people on whom a better future depends. The style of the Clintons' attacks on Obama, which are likely to escalate as her chances of winning decline, already risks losing too many Democratic and independent voters in November. We believe that the Hillary Clinton of 1968 would be an Obama volunteer today, just as she once marched in the snows of New Hampshire for Eugene McCarthy against the Democratic establishment.
We did not foresee the exciting social movement that is the Obama campaign. Many of us supported other candidates, or waited skeptically as weeks and months passed. But the closeness of the race makes it imperative that everyone on the sidelines, everyone in doubt, everyone vacillating, everyone fearing betrayals and the blasting of hope, everyone quarreling over political correctness, must join this fight to the finish. Not since Robert Kennedy's 1968 campaign has there been a passion to imagine the world anew like the passion and unprecedented numbers of people mobilized in this campaign.
Tom Hayden is author of Ending the War in Iraq, a five-time Democratic convention delegate, former state senator, and board member of the Progressive Democrats of America. Bill Fletcher, Jr., who originated the call for founding "Progressives for Obama," is the executive editor of Black Commentator, and founder of the Center for Labor Renewal; Barbara Ehrenreich is the author of Dancing in the Streets[2007] and other popular works and, with Hayden, a member of The Nation's editorial board. Danny Glover is the respected actor, activist, and chairman of the board of TransAfrica.
For more information see: http://progressivesforobama.blogspot.com/
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114 Comments so far
Show Allps. Lately the Nation's reporting has been so emotional and biased beyond fact when it comes to the upcoming presidential election that I didn't renew my subscription.
The problem with Obama is he wants people to think with their hankies not their brains. And that's what a lot of Americans seem to like to do.
Obama says a lot of nice things, but has done very little to give him any credulity. He takes corporate money left and right. He represents that contingent now calling themselves "progressives", the all talk, just-make-sure I'm comfy progressives, who fundamentally fear any real change to our system that would actually produce results.
http://www.votenader.org/issues/
abbybwood, I understand your view and share your wishes. But expect him to get about 3% of the vote.
kathyodat
I won't vote for Obama until he endorses the New York City Ballot Initiative for a New Investigation into 9/11. They are collecting signatures right now for the November ballot and have until mid-May to gather 45,000 signatures in order to qualify the initiative.
When I hear Tom Hayden and Co. AND Barack Obama endorse this initiative, and when Barack Obama divorces himself from Zbigniew Brezinski and The Council on Foreign Relations, when he denounces all the legislation that has been passed that rip at the heart of our civil rights, when he admits that the U.S. invasion of Iraq was clearly illegal and our continued occupation of Iraq is an international war crime and that he would vow that his first order of business after his inauguration will be to send his new Secretary of State to Iraq to sign the papers regarding an orderly withdrawal of our troops coupled with an apology and promises to aid them in the reconstruction of their country.... THEN I MIGHT consider voting for him for POTUS.
I would be happy to identify myself Tom. My name is Chris DeGetmon and I have worked for environmental and social issues in various non-profits for over thirty years. Just one final question Tom, before you spin another tale for all the sheeple you cater to on this site. I know you sit on the Board of Nation Magazine. It is my understanding that you and your elitist friends at the Nation are now advocating for Cindy Sheehan to bow out of her campaign to unseat Pelosi. I think we all recognize Pelosi as just another patriarchal elite who knows what is best for everyone just like you do Tom. But if you care to comment, please serve up another plate of tripe.
I will give you the last piss Tom, make it a good one! But before you do here is a book review I wrote about one of your books: it pretty much reflects my view of what you do with the time you have.
My view is that Hayden has become an eco-opportunist. By this I mean that he establishes connections to movements he knows absolutely nothing about, learns a smattering of information on the subject, then rushes to print so to capitalize on his name recognition. This book offers more anthropocentric norms placing humans outside and above nature. In this model humans are not a part of the web of life, but use nature as a utility for their own benefit and greed.
The overall information presented in the book is shallow. My guess is that Hayden likes to identify with various social and environmental movements by churning out books that keep pace with these movements. Why? Personal hubris comes to mind as one factor, but there may be others.
As a case in point, It is striking that Hayden is now endorsing Obama for President after first throwing his lot in with Edwards. How does this man reconcile the obvious contradictions? Obama's environmental plan is written by lobbyists in and for, the Bio Fuel industry, and Nuclear Energy industry. Science speaks with a uniform voice on this subject and has identified the Bio Fuel industry has a contributing factor to Climate Change. Just another contradiction in a sea of contradictions for people like Hayden. They ride a wave of popular issues, not because they recognize, or even understand the philosophic roots of those movements, but rather to identify with their ideology for the sake of selling books, promoting themselves, and enriching themselves off of the back of our Earth Mother. I assume Hayden has enough smarts to understand and grasp that his books and those of his elitist friends in the spirituality-for-sale movement are engaged in the diminishment of our Earth Home by publishing their books which ultimately come from what is left of what was once a great and majestic forest? Hayden's books support the logging industry but if you talk to him my guess is that he will serve up various platitudes on why the industry must be regulated. Sadly, more empty rhetoric to insure that his fees pour in. My native friends call this "speaking with a forked tongue."
People like Hayden are more concerned with power, prestige, and money then they are with voluntary simplicity. Even more confusing are the contradictory political norms he abides by, endorsing a candidate that advocates for an environmental plan that will continue the dysfunction we are currently witnessing in the Bush Administration. Bill Clinton was president for eight years and did absolutely nothing by way of leadership on Climate Change. Obama is going to give us more of the same. But then again, Hayden voted for Clinton too! Why ought that surprise anyone?
I
Hayden's capitulation to the imperial war machine by obsequiously pandering to The Big Lie underpinning the entire criminal juggernaut is his parroting of the False Flag psyop of 9/11 itself.:
'...... But we simply cannot continue multiple military interventions in many Muslim countries without increasing the vast number of violent jihadists against us, bleeding our military and our economy, becoming more dependent on Middle East oil, creating unsavory alliances with police states, shrinking our own civil liberties and putting ourselves at permanent risk of another 9/11 attack.'
Tom did not mention the millions of people murdered in Afghanistan and Iraq based on lie of lies, anymore than he will the USS Liberty, DU weapons being, or the genocidal intent in these policies. I notice any mention of Brezinski and his lust of Russian blood, who ran the Carter presidency, will Obama's or he would not even had been placed in the US Senate!
Obama is the chosen toy-boy of the Rockefeller cabal! He has defended the use of nuclear weapons in acts of aggression, ultimatums, a clear violation of the Article 6a of the Nuremberg Principles.
Hayden invokes religion labels,'Muslims' in what shacks or a Crusader mindset! The Bible v. Koran.
Tom, Bill, Barbara, and Danny! are now just disgusting reactionaries consequently, and worse sucking up to war criminals, in lieu confronting their assets, they have joined them!
To vote one's conscience is to write in your own name! Republics are concentrations of power in the hands of the few, and with 95% wealth in the hands of 1%, the outcome is a even; a fascist Plutocracy, in all be name! Only National Referendums in making Public Law and Policy will be representative of We, the people. The polls prove that time and again. The political class are treacherous liars, moral cowards, and public enemies. For the record Robert Kennedy was trying to assassinate Castro, did Marilyn Monroe and journalist Lisa Howard. Tom are you a fool or rolling-over and like it!?
Hayden and clan, have capitulation to the imperial war machine by bowing obsequiously to the Big Lie underpinning the entire criminal juggernaut is the False Flag psyop of 9/11 itself.:
'...... But we simply cannot continue multiple military interventions in many Muslim countries without increasing the vast number of violent jihadists against us, bleeding our military and our economy, becoming more dependent on Middle East oil, creating unsavory alliances with police states, shrinking our own civil liberties and putting ourselves at permanent risk of another 9/11 attack.'
Tom did not mention the millions murdered since in Afghanistan and Iraq based on that provocation, anymore than he will the USS Liberty, DU weapons being, or the genocidal intent in these policies, nor did I notice mention of Brezinski and his lust of Russian blood, who as in the Carter presidency, will be calling the shoots, or thermalnuclear wars of aggression that now poses the greatest danger on Earth. Obama is toy-boy of the Rockefeller cabal, and these neo-liberals are just trying to get on the program, not change the system, they are reactionary consequently, and worse sucking up to war criminals, in lieu confronting their assets, they have joined them!
Kathyodat, you're right, I shouldn't bother, but I'll try anyway – the lies and smears here are just too egregious to go unanswered.
Navarro (March 29th, 2008 12:37 pm) quoted: "Obama praised George H.W. Bush - father of the president -- for the way he handled the Persian Gulf War"
He was praising Poppy Bush for not occupying Iraq the way his son did. It was a subtle dig at Junior Bush and McCain.
Navarro (March 29th, 2008 12:37 pm) wrote: "Let's see: this guy is allied with mobsters, can't think on his feet, seems to have a problem with women, doesn't have any appreciable "politics" about the poor in general or impoverished people of color in particular, AND supports the first stage of the Bushes' racist perma-war on Muslims/Arabs."
This is ludicrous: He is not 'allied with mobsters,' he can think on his feet just fine, he doesn't have any 'problem with women,' and his first job out of college was helping the poor on the South Side of Chicago instead of going to work for big money at a high-powered law firm. Where has he supported Bush's war on Muslims? If you really believe any of this, you are an idiot.
Speaking of idiots, Huck (March 29th, 2008 5:21 pm) is reading right out of the GOP playbook on his so-called 'facts' which somehow come off as more 'half truths, lies, and patriarchal norms':
"Facts: Obama has taken PAC money in the past. I invite anyone to go to www.opensecrets and you can track his record both on PAC money and corporate money."
Actual Fact: I did, Huck. That's where they had the information that I posted earlier in this thread that he has received 100 percent of his presidential campaign funds from individual contributions, not PACs or corporate lobbyists. Do you even bother to read your own links? This is a lie.
"Fact: Obama supports the Military Industrial Establishment. He has voted for every Iraq spending Bill brought before the Senate."
Actual Fact: This is moronic: He voted to keep the troops in Iraq supplied since it was clear that Bush was going to veto any bill to withdraw them. Also, those bills included money for the VA and other programs to help vets. If he had voted against them, you'd now be screaming that he didn't 'support the troops' when he had the chance. This is then, at best, a half-truth.
"Fact: Obama's plan is light years away from a Single Payer Health Plan. In fact, it is a windfall for the insurance industry. RSJ would have you believe the Insurance industry is NOT A CORPORATE ENTITY."
Actual Fact: This is also a half-truth. Obama supports single-payer health care but is realistic enough to recognize that it's not going to get through Congress, unlike some of the starry-eyed dreamers posting comments here who apparently think if they can somehow elect Ralph Nader president he can ram single-payer health care through Congress. That's as stupid and unrealistic as the rest of Huck's 'Facts'. I have never said that the health insurance industry is not a corporate entity and, if you want to know what Obama's health care plan is, rather than accept the GOP's or Clinton's or Huck's word for it, go to http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ .
For those of you who haven't bothered to read this thread entirely, or have a reading comprehension problem like Huck, here's what Obama said concerning single-payer health care:
"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer, universal health-care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. ... A single-payer health-care plan, a universal health-care plan. That's what I'd like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we've got to take back the White House, and we've got to take back the Senate, and we've got to take back the House."
-- Barack Obama, speaking to the AFL-CIO in June 2003, as quoted by Media Matters.
"Fact: Obama like Clinton will leave substantial troop levels in Iraq. His plan does not call for COMPLETE withdraw."
Actual Fact: This is a lie. He will withdraw all but sufficient troops to guard our embassies there, about 5 percent of the current troop strength – hardly a 'substantial' number.
"Fact: Obama called for increasing troop strength in Afganistan and BOMBING Pakistan if required or needed to affirm his manhood for all the war mongers in this country including RSJ. Also note that RSJ is most likely one of the authors of this thread disguising himself and lacking either the manhood or guts to identify himself."
Actual Fact: This is more baloney. He has not called for an increase of troops in Afghanistan, just to use the troops that are there to go after Al-Qaeda. Similarly, he called for surgical strikes on Al-Qaeda in Pakistan, if the Pakistani government won't move to arrest them. He didn't advocate 'bombing Pakistan' wholesale. I don't know what your problem is about manhood, Huck, and don't really care, but your second sentence doesn't make any sense – you're using a screen name here, so what's your point? Why don't you 'identify yourself,' Mr. Macho Man, as an example of 'guts' to us all? Your comment sounded pretty much like the 'patriarchal norm' to me.
"Fact: Obama avoided over 800 votes when in the Illinois legislature."
Actual Fact: This is a lie proving you're a raving imbecile who doesn't know how the Illinois Legislature works. If you had bothered to do some research, you'd know that voting 'present' is not the same as 'avoiding' votes. Voting 'present' means that you think there are some good parts of a bill but you disagree with other sections and would like changes. For example, if there was a bill to raise the state minimum wage that also included a pay increase for state senators, you might want the pay increase left out, but you wouldn't want to kill the minimum wage bill completely. If you ever figure out how politics works in this country, Huck, than you might be capable of posting more than your baseless smears and neocon fears.
"Fact: Obama has had a cozy relationship with a slum lord who provide the land on which his house was built by the name of Resko who is now under indictment and Obama has admitted he was a friend."
Actual Fact: Half-truths mixed with lies. Obama knows Tony Rezko (if you're going to smear somebody, at least get the name right) socially, but Rezko didn't 'provide the land' that Obama built his house on. The house was already built and Obama only bought some adjacent land from Rezko at market price. Rezko is on trial right now but hasn't been convicted of anything, so trying to smear Obama with some connection to innocent-until-proven-guilty Rezko is a neocon smear that's weak at best. The Chicago Tribune and Chicago Sun-Times have been investigating Obama's ties to Rezko for years and have found nothing criminal or unethical in the relationship. (Google the articles for yourself, including Obama's recent interview with the Tribune.) Obama, you might notice, was not indicted with Rezko. I also challenge you to prove Hillary Clinton's contention that Rezko is a 'slumlord' and what Obama would have to do with that.
"Fact: Obama owns a million dollar house reflecting his class entitlement."
Actual Fact: Half-truth insinuation. Obama earned the money for his house from his two best-selling books, not from his salary as a public servant. BTW, did you know that Ralph Nader is a millionaire who lives in a million-dollar home that he put in his sister's name? So what? What is this 'class entitlement' nonsense? It sounds like the same smear the neocons used on John Edwards.
"Fact: Obama supports Bio Fuels. Biofuels are hostile to a sustainable Earth. Scientific consensus speaks with a uniform voice on this subject."
Actual Fact: More BS. What scientific consensus, Sparky? As I have previously explained, biofuels are better for the environment – as a temporary measure – than fossil fuels. For God's sake, Willie Nelson's tour bus runs on vegetable oil fuel – a biofuel. The same with nuclear power, which doesn't release the toxins in the air that coal-burning plants do. It is going to take a while to convert to solar, wind and other green power; in the meantime, biofuels and nuclear energy are a better alternative than fossil fuels and coal produced energy.
"Fact: Obama supports Nuclear Energy. Note the CD article I posted above."
Actual Fact: Read my last comment.
Huck wrote: "You folks are FREE to vote you conscience, I respect that right. Unlike RSJ, who adopts the same methods as the people he hates by offering half truths, lies, and patriarchal norms to lead you all by the hand and tell you what is best for you. Yes, the empty suits of the past still riding the wave of what they did in their twenties and now married to the status quo currently and collecting their for books, and moving in elitist circles. Listen to these Cats if you want more of the same. Because that is what Obama is going to give you."
Gee, Huck, thanks for allowing us to vote our consciences with your approval – that's very magnanimous of you. You must be a REAL progressive. As to the rest of your babbling – you can kiss my big black ass.
BTW, Huck, if you detected any ad hominem attacks in this post, and were about to whine about it, save your time – I fully intended to be insulting to a troll like you.
Formernadervoter (March 30th, 2008 12:07 pm) writes: "Obama is not a progressive." Yes, he is! "He's for the death penalty!" On rare occasions! "Against Palestinian rights!" No, he's not! "For free trade!" With protections for workers! "Against single payer!" Read above!
"We sharply differ with some of those views, particularly Obama's opposition to the North American Free Trade Agreement."
-- Chicago Tribune editorial endorsing Obama for US Senator, Feb. 29, 2004.
"The two big Chicago daily papers both endorsed him enthusiastically in the primary, even though they disagreed with him on major issues -- his opposition to the war in Iraq and, in the case of the Tribune, his opposition to the North American Free Trade Agreement."
-- The New Yorker, May 31, 2004.
"(When) I am president, I will not sign another trade agreement unless it has protections for our environment and protections for American workers. And I'll pass the Patriot Employer Act that I've been fighting for ever since I ran for the Senate -- we will end the tax breaks for companies who ship our jobs overseas, and we will give those breaks to companies who create good jobs with decent wages right here in America."
-- Barack Obama in Janesville, WI, Feb. 13, 2008, as quoted by The Nation.
Formernadervoter (March 30th, 2008 12:07 pm) also bubbled: "Obama is not campaigning as a progressive." Yes, he is! "Have you heard him mention he's in favor of a living wage?" Yes, I have! "What about support for ending the illegal sanctions against Cuba?" Yes, he will! "What about in favor of withdrawing from ANY of our world wide 800 military bases in over 120 countries?" Yes, he is!
Formernadervoter (March 30th, 2008 12:07 pm) returned to the tainted well: "Obama is not going to govern as a progressive." Yes, he will! "His top economic advisors are market fundamentalists." No, they aren't! "Remember the one who told Canadians, don't listen to Obama's criticisms of NAFTA, that's just talk?" Yes, and it wasn't true. The Canadian Embassy issued a statement that Obama's representative did not say anything in private contrary to what Obama was saying in public. Keep up with the news! "His top foreign policy advisors like Zbig Brzezinski and Samantha Power favor continued control of our empire with a muscular foreign policy." But they were all against the invasion of Iraq and oppose an attack on Iran! How does that expand the empire?
Read this, Formernadervoter:
"A recent analysis of key votes by The National Journal concluded that Mr. Obama had the Senate's most liberal voting record in 2007; Mrs. Clinton ranked 16th. But of the 267 measures on which both senators voted, the National Journal analysis found that they differed on only 10. One of their major differences came on an amendment that called for the designation of the Revolutionary Guards in Iran as a terrorist organization; while Mrs. Clinton supported it, Mr. Obama missed the vote, but said he opposed it."
-- Robin Toner, "Obama's test: Can a liberal be a unifier?" NY Times, March 24, 2008.
Sorry for all the typos in that post. Hope it was coherent enough to follow. I hate the edit feature.
kathyodat
Huck, Im not saying Obama's a savior. I am saying I believe he's willing to go in a different direction. I'm also saying I could be wrong, but I'm willing to take a chance. How does that make me sound like a neo-con talking head? I don't know who I represent besides myself but my political activism hasn't been limited to scurrying off the a voting booth once every four years. Three of us here in Eugene started the 2000 Nader for President campaign and opened an office registering voters, distributing literature, running events and press conferences. I plastered the sides of my car with huge homemade Nader signs which showed up in our local newspaper. I've been an activist all my adult life, starting with Vietnam.
And I just said I'm not trying to convince anyone to vote against their conscience so why do you say I am? It seems like you are trying to create me to be some image you have of me. I'm simply giving my own opinion of what I think of Hillary and Obama. I'm glad Nader is running. If Hillary steals the nomination I want to have a choice between Nader and McKinney.
The word you're looking is not "fain" (gladly) but "feign" (pretend) - or am I putting words in your mouth? It's hard to tell with your confusing sentences.
By the way, the primary voters aren't serving up these people, the corporate media is doing that. For us, it's pick one of these. Or go off sulking and vote for a no chance candidate. I just personally believe Obama has slid in under the radar with his innocuous demeanor and voting record. But like I said I could be wrong. One of us is being fooled. Time will show who it is.
If Obama started saying all the things you want to hear from him he would be DOA. Personally I think he's too smart for that. How far will he go in the direction we want? Remains to be seen. But looking at his past, he intrigues me. Looking at his present behavior, I respect his integrity. I know to get as far as he has gotten he has to play the game. Is he doing it to be able to change the system (which he has mentioned a number of times) or to further his own ambitions as are others running in this race?
And yes, he has Zbigniew Brzezinski on his foreign policy team. At least Brzezinski opposed this invasion. And without a "big ticket" name he would be derided as naive. The majority of his advisers favor restructuring our foreign policy to actually help poor countries out of poverty, and stop shipping arms to dictators. Did you read the link I posted about that? stually I think it was on a different thread. Here it is:
http://www.alternet.org/audits/80623/?page=entire
I do go to posted links, particularly when in a discussion such as with you, Huck. I don't believe in debating from a point of ignorance. I'm familiar with opensecrets and Obama's funding. Do you think anyone can become President on chump change? What will he give away for all this? I really don't know. I do know he has worked to pass bills ending lobbyists' financial influence and creating transparency in money to politicians when that failed. He has sponsored bills for publicly funded election campaigns. He said he would agree to a publicly funded campaign against McCain if McCain agreed to forbid "advocacy" groups from running negative ads. Silence from McCain on that one.
Anyone can take anything out of context and twist it any way they want. You know, sort of like statistics. And certainly like the Wright sermons. Some facts are harder to distort like a rapid $60 million increase in wealth. Huck, I'm not twisting your words, how about if you stop twisting mine?
kathyodat
You know Kathy you truly have a gift for twisting contexts of value. I actually admire you for it. With each post you sound more and more like one of the neo-con talking heads with the exception that you are using the craft on behalf of Obama. You take refuge under your under a shifting and illusive contexts of meaning - simple minded as it is - and then fain ignorance for the very articles you claim I am not reading, by turning the context against the thrust of the article you support. Astonishing!
Unlike you, I am not trying to convince you or anyone else to vote against your conscience. How many times do I have to say this before it sinks in? If you people spent as much energy engaging the system by getting involved as you do mimicking Obama status quo rhetoric, you could really transform the world. Too bad, because the people you represent think that their social engagement takes place every four years when you scurry off to the voting booth and cast a vote for the latest greatest status quo candidate that the status quo primary voters care to serve up. And if all else fails, then you have the patriarch elites of the Democrat Party to tell you what is best for us, by usurping the voice of the people.
My advice is next time someone offers you the "Red" pill: take it! The veil of illusions will suddenly disappear, the Earth will shake, and the borders of your prison will become clear. Thinking inside Glover's, Hayden's et al box along with their grand apologetic for the Party of elites they are married to will not save you. Although I can understand the appeal of the new found 'born again' believers and the attraction to the latest Saviour of the world.
But before Obama becomes my Saviour he has to first recognize and implement environmental standards that are visionary and not the same worn out tripe of entrenched corporate elites from which he now draws his plans from. Wake Up, my friend.
huck, you go ahead and save your vote for someone who will do exactly what you want. I've been doing that for many decades. This time I'm voting for someone who won't give me everything I want, but who might give all of us what we need.
kathyodat
huck I read that article back in 2007, and he's still saying it. That Reuters story wasn't a neocon conspiracy, it was telling it like it is. But he's also saying we have to address the issues of injustice and poverty that creates an environment for terrorists to flourish. What other candidate is saying that? Obama is no Ghandi, he's a politician, but I do think he is willing to talk about and address the issues that are creating our problems. Including the issue of class and disparity of wealth in this country. And I also think he is an uncorrupted politician - and that is a rarity for one who actually gets within striking distance of the Presidency.
kathyodat
huck, where are the rebuttal links you refer to? I'm waiting. Obama has no income except for his and Michelle's salaries and two best sellers, on which income they were able to afford a $1 million home. As Michelle Obama pointed out, they had only finished paying off their student loans 3 years ago. They are not getting rich in politics, unless you are attributing writing two best sellers as using politics to get rich. Generally, I consider "getting rich" in politics as using political connections to make lots of money as the Clintons and too many other politicians have done.
The Obamas' 2006 income of $991,296 included Obama's salary of $157,082 and his wife's administrator's pay of $273,618 from the University of Chicago Hospitals and $51,200 in director fees from a food distributor, TreeHouse Inc. Book royalties added over $600,000 to their income. They paid $227,000 in income taxes and gave $60,000 to charity. They aren't tax dodgers and aren't stingy (Reagan was both). Obama has released all his tax statements back to the year 2000. We're still waiting on Hillary but I wouldn't hold my breath. Link below to the story.
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/17/72427.shtml
huck, I'm not trying to talk you into voting for anyone you don't want to. I haven't voted for a mainstream candidate since 1972 (if you call McGovern mainstream - some wouldn't). Are you pissing on Obama because he bought an expensive home? Ten years ago a $1 million dollar home was a big deal. In 2006, the housing bubble was peaking out and housing prices were ridiculously exorbitant. I myself sold a home I couldn't afford to live in for twice what I paid for it and paid full cash for a modest little home where I can wait out this coming depression without being afraid of losing my home - which I surely would have done if I had stayed put.
You misconstrued my reference to Biden's adviser, Klain. Reread my quote, or better yet, reread the article. Klain was dissing Obama's ability to lead the country and the NYT apologized for not mentioning that Klain was an adviser to Biden who was about to declare for the presidency and thus had ulterior motives for suggesting that Obama did not suitable leadership qualities. I am a little confused about how you managed to twist that around.
You think he's a corporate clown, I think he might change the direction of our country from the road to Hell. I hope we get to find out who's right. One thing I think we do agree on is where we would be going with Hillary or McCain. Although some people think Hillary is the road to salvation. I believe if we get stuck with her they will find out how wrong they are. If we weren't up to our eyeballs in shit I wouldn't have given him a second look. My first look was like yours. But my second look made me curious. And now I am willing to take a chance on him even if I'm wrong. I may be wrong. But what I suspect is that he will change things. Not as fast or as far as I want, but in the right direction. I may be wrong on that, but in this situation I'm willing to take that chance.
Biden a star? I never would have voted for him - however did you get that notion? Looks like you took something I said and ran to the moon with it. Talk about green cheese. Most people on this site know me better than that. I started out bashing Obama in the same breath with Hillary. Back then it was Kucinich or Nader or forget it.
kathyodat
Odat cites an article above that asserts that Obama is the second coming of Ghandi. I invite anyone to go back and read that article because it characterizes Obama as some one working for peace. She then offers a rebuttal by asserting that people who are NOT voting for Obama are doing nothing more than using "Fox news talking points." Kathy is either in a vacuum or she is blinded by her zeal because Obama is on record as advocating for the Bush doctrine of First Strikes. Here is an article from Rueters. Although Kathy will probably call it a neo con conspiracy. But if you dont like this article Kathy why not do a google search of same. The truth is a hard pill to swallow is it not?
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0132206420070801
Talk about "distorted meanings" because Kathy Odat is a Mastered the Art of spinning tales of wanderlust. It just so happens that I read the article you are referring to. Did you read any of the articles posted by others as a rebuttal? Since I dont own a TV it would be rather difficult to watch FOX news But operating from your distorted assumptions, if I did own a TV the last program on the News I might 'watch' is Fox News. Odat asserts Obama is not getting rich in politics: this is a rather stunning statement which reflects the vacuum from which some people live their lives with attributes mirroring religious fundamentalists and their zeal for their cause. Senators in the US Senate earn less than 200K, yet Obama lives in a mansion valued at over 1 million. Talking Points? RSJ and Odat are MASTERS at projecting the Obama handlers latest doctrine of half truths. She posts one article that agrees with her point of view offering absolutely no citations or FACTS and because it is in alignment with her ideology, it must then follow that it is the truth. Finding a site on the internet that agrees with you is not doing research. If I find a site that claims the moon is made of Green Cheese, does that in fact make it is so? Odat cites Biden to affirm how wonderful Obama must be presumably because she thinks Biden a star of the Democratic Party. Biden ran for president back in his early thirties and was forced out base on an article he published that was taken word for word from another author thus forcing him out of the race. If Odat is going to resurrect rotten apples out of the bin she ought to pick an apple that is fresh and clean rather than a apple that has a dysfunctional odor to it. Obat then launches into a her defense by introducing Clinton into the mix asserting Obama is so much better as if to suggest that those of us who are not voting for Obama will be voting for her. This argument is taken directly out of the neo con play book and often referred to as 'switch and bait.' Nice try Kathy but that dog just wont hunt. I would rather wipe my ass with sandpaper than vote for either of these corporate clowns.
I did find a shorter link to that article. Hope it works. It's worth reading.
www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/us/politics/28obama.html
kathyodat
RSJ, give it up. These people don't know anything about Obama except Clinton and FOX news talking points. Clearly they didn't go the the link I posted on his foreign policy team because they aren't interested. I bet not one of them has read or heard his entire speech, just snippets that the media has cherry picked in order to distort the meaning.
At least he isn't getting filthy rich in politics like Hillary and Bill ($60 million in 7 years). And if that was his ambition, he would have been cozying up to Tyson and WalMart like Hillary instead of teaching Constitutional law and working as a community activist. He's smart, has a Harvard law degree and was the first Black elected President of the Harvard Law Review at a very fractious time in it's history. An interesting excerpt from the NYT follows:
A front-page article in the Sunday Times reported on Barack Obama's years at Harvard Law School. It included a quotation from Ron Klain, former chief of staff to Vice President Al Gore, who said that Mr. Obama's inclusive leadership style as president of the Harvard Law Review would not be as effective in running a country.
The Times later learned that Mr. Klain is an informal adviser to Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democrat of Delaware, who is expected to announce on Wednesday that he is running for president. Mr. Klain's affiliation with the Biden campaign should have been disclosed in the article.
We had another President with an inclusive leadership style during another critical time in our history: Abraham Lincoln. One of the most amazing books I ever read was "Team of Rivals". The more I read about Obama, the more I see that he is not well understood because he is being defined in simplistic terms that underrate him, and the more I am convinced that he is what our country needs at this time. I have never felt this way about any politician. It's his effectiveness that draws me; we need someone who can overcome partisanship and get things done, and that in my mind was a shortcoming for Kucinich and Nader. He is able to make people on both sides of an issue feel understood and that their needs will be addressed, and get them to reach an agreement. Nobody gets everything they want , but progress instead of stalemate gets accomplished. So far we've been living with stalemate. By the way, Lincoln was being equally trashed while running for office.
The link to the NYT law school story is elongated, but google Obama harvard law review and click on the following story and it should get you there. That is for anyone who wants to criticize him from an informed point of view, of which I haven't seen much here. Or anyone who wants more insight into who he is.
In Law School, Obama Found Political Voice - New York Times
kathyodat
This whole effort is an oxymoron.
Obama is not a progressive. He's for the death penalty! Against Palestinian rights! For free trade! Against single payer!
Obama is not campaigning as a progressive. Have you heard him mention he's in favor of a living wage? What about support for ending the illegal sanctions against Cuba? What about in favor of withdrawing from ANY of our world wide 800 military bases in over 120 countries?
Obama is not going to govern as a progressive. His top economic advisors are market fundamentalists. Remember the one who told Canadians, don't listen to Obama's criticisms of NAFTA, that's just talk? His top foreign policy advisors like Zbig Brzezinski and Samantha Power favor continued control of our empire with a muscular foreign policy.
Wake up, progressives!
Facts: Obama has taken PAC money in the past. I invite anyone to go to www.opensecrets.org and you can track his record both on PAC money and corporate money.
Fact: Obama supports the Military Industrial Establishment. He has voted for every Iraq Spending Bill brought before the Senate.
Fact: Obama's plan is light years away from a Single Payer Health Plan. In fact, it is a windfall for the insurance industry. RSJ would have you believe the Insurance industry is NOT A CORPORATE ENTITY.
Fact: Obama like Clinton will leave substantial troop levels in Iraq. His plan does not call for COMPLETE withdraw.
Fact: Obama called for increasing troop strength in Afganistan and BOMBING Pakistan if required or needed to affirm his manhood for all the war mongers in this country including RSJ. Also note that RSJ is most likely one of the authors of this thread disguising himself and lacking either the manhood or guts to identify himself.
Fact: Obama avoided over 800 votes when in the Illinois legislature.
Fact: Obama has had a cozy relationship with a slum lord who provide the land on which his house was built by the name of Resko who is now under indictment and Obama has admitted he was a friend.
Fact: Obama owns a million dollar house reflecting his class entitlement.
Fact: Obama supports Bio Fuels. Biofuels are hostile to a sustainable Earth. Scientific consensus speaks with a uniform voice on this subject.
Fact: Obama supports Nuclear Energy. Note the CD article I posted above.
You folks are FREE to vote you conscience, I respect that right. Unlike RSJ, who adopts the same methods as the people he hates by offering half truths, lies, and patriarchal norms to lead you all by the hand and tell you what is best for you. Yes, the empty suits of the past still riding the wave of what they did in their twenties and now married to the status quo currently and collecting their for books, and moving in elitist circles. Listen to these Cats if you want more of the same. Because that is what Obama is going to give you.
"Obama praised George H.W. Bush - father of the president - for the way he handled the Persian Gulf War"
See "Obama Aligns Foreign Policy With GOP"
Devlin Barrett, AP
Let's see: this guy is allied with mobsters, can't think on his feet, seems to have a problem with women, doesn't have any appreciable "politics" about the poor in general or impoverished people of color in particular, AND supports the first stage of the Bushes' racist perma-war on Muslims/Arabs.
Explain again why progressives are supposed to support this fraud? Hopefully the Democrats will come to their senses and nominate John Edwards.
Otherwise, if the whole "democratic" deal splinters and McCain or whoever is elected, it's very damn difficult to see what difference it makes.
Disfasia (March 28th, 2008 7:34 am) wrote: "Obama is a charlatan. I am very disappointed to see activists I respect supporting someone who is sponsored by corporate money (despite his finger pointing to Clinton for doing the same); he proposes and Iraqi withdrawl but does not set a date on this, and he wants to augment the Aghanistan occupation; and as many have pointed out, Obama's economic advisors are far more conservative than Clinton's."
What corporate money has Obama taken? His campaign contributions, as I have noted twice in this thread, are entirely from individual donations, not PACs or lobbyists. When you make charges like this, Disfasia, be specific. As far as Iraq, Obama has said that he will withdraw all US troops from Iraq within 16 months and close all US permanent bases there. He doesn't want to 'augment the Afghanistan occupation,' he has said he just wants to find Al-Qaeda there and bring them to justice. As I asked before, just who are these economic advisors to Obama who are more conservative than Clinton's? What are their names? And if you think McCain is honest -- well, you haven't been paying attention. Two quick examples: 1) McCain signed up to take public financing of his campaign and has now violated that agreement, according to the FEC; 2) McCain has repeatedly said he's against torture and then recently voted for a bill allowing torture.
Huck (March 28th, 2008 8:16 am), I notice you shift attention away from yourself by resorting to personal attacks whenever you are asked to prove some allegation you've made. I'm a 'true believer' because I post facts and reason to contradict your wild-ass opinions? Maybe I just don't like people being smeared by those who are either intentionally or accidentally ignorant and refuse to cure their ignorance. If I'm 'shoveling dung' then prove it -- post facts contrary to my 'dung.' Or would that require too much effort? You're as bad as a neocon -- you've made up your mind and facts be damned.
Many of you who oppose Obama make the assumption that he'll be more conservative if elected rather than more progressive. Fine, back up that assumption with proof. It never seems to occur to you that he might be pragmatically campaigning toward the center in order to get elected so that he can then move the country to the left. It's easy to bleat and carp that he hasn't sufficiently doted on your pet project, without seeing the big picture that if Obama started talking like a 'radical environmentalist' or an anti-corporate Nader-crusader he'd be driven into obscurity by the Big Media, just as Kucinich, Edwards, Nader and McKinney have been. There's no getting around it: You have to get elected to change things. In the past, Obama, once elected, has sponsored and passed some very progressive legislation, especially government ethics and transparency bills. When he was in the Illinois State Senate, he passed a law to make information on millions of dollars in pork projects openly available and easily accessible to the public, against the wishes of his mentor and State Senate leader Emil Jones, who was the political equivalent of the Hog Butcher of the World at the time. In other words, Obama was willing to anger the politically powerful in order to serve the public interest. In October 2002 when he publicly came out against Bush's planned Iraq invasion he was among very few Illinois politicians who objected to what was then a popular war, and it might have cost him his career in politics. In these and other cases, he showed courage in standing up to special interests and against war, something that cannot be said for most Dem politicians these days. Most recently, instead of following the advice of the political 'experts' and doing the expedient thing of dumping Rev. Wright and quitting his church, Obama instead wrote and delivered one of the best political speeches of the past forty years, and treated his listeners like adults, nearly unheard-of these days for a major party pol in a serious national campaign.
Nanoo, I can assure you I am not a 'plant' for Obama in any way, shape or form -- I am not associated in any way with his campaign, nor have I even given a dime to it. As I said, I don't like people being falsely smeared and I have done research which leads me to conclude that, rather than being the lesser of two evils, Obama would be the best viable candidate this year. Not perfect, and I don't agree with everything he's done or said, but better than the rest that have a chance to be elected. Seeing things in terms of 'good and evil' is an immature trait of neocons like Bush and Cheney. If you happen to find the 'perfect' progressive candidate who can get elected, tell me and I'll vote for him or her. In the meantime, Obama is the best we can do, and a long way better than McCain. Which brings me to this point, to turn around all of this talk of 'plants' -- it's no secret that the right-wing wants to divide the progressive vote this year -- they'd like nothing better than to have us voting for Nader, McKinney or whoever so that McCain can sneak in -- so how do we know that all of you rabid 'anti-Obama' types aren't 'plants' for the RNC?
Ghawar (March 28th, 2008 9:50 am) wrote: "Well, RSJ, a lot of people say I'm a spoiler, that it's my stubborn perversity as a third party voter that brought us George Bush. So be it. If it takes another four or twenty or thirty-six years of imbecilic presidents, Bushism and stupidity before the message sinks in with the Democratic Party, then that's how it will be."
That's very irresponsible of you, Ghawar. I have a grandchild and I want to do my best to try and make the future better for him, not wait twenty years for the country to descend further into the Dark Ages and hope the sheeple wake up.
Ghawar (March 28th, 2008 9:50 am) wrote: "You might ask yourself what your voting for the lesser of two evils has accomplished these last four decades."
You might ask yourself where you formed that baseless opinion, since I voted for Nader in 2000, and have consistently voted for the Greens and other third party candidates in state and local races.
Jozef (March 28th, 2008 7:06 pm): Yes, when you claim to be against everything the GOP stands for and then accept money from them, especially if you campaign as a man of high principle like Ralph Nader, then there is something wrong with that. BTW, good luck on getting Nader up to 24 percent by election time. It's always nice to dream, but it just ain't gonna happen.
Thanks, Kathyodat, for your cogent comments and that link to Ackerman's article. (I promise I won't tell the NSA!) ;)
Carl, if you are truly interested in progressive values I invite you to look at Nader's platform. I got this in my email today from the Nader team:
According to a national poll that will be released next week, 59 percent of doctors in the United States want a single-payer, public insurance, private delivery, Canadian-style national health insurance system.
That's up ten percent from five years ago.
Nurses agree.
As do the overwhelming majority of Americans.
Doctors say yes.
Nurses say yes.
The American people say yes.
Nader/Gonzalez says yes.
But the insurance industry continues to say no.
The corporate Republicans and Democrats continue to say no.
And McCain/Clinton/Obama say no.
So, on health insurance, the choice is manifestly clear.
If you want a health insurance system run by the wasteful, bloated health insurance industry, then support McCain/Clinton/Obama.
If you want a single-payer, national health insurance system, where everybody is in one pool, and nobody is out, with savings of more than $350 billion a year, then support Nader/Gonzalez.
Simple as that.
They are on one side.
We are on the other.
Which side are you on?
Support Nader/Gonzalez now.
Onward
The Nader Team
To USAn re: Pittsburgh
Better stay home from the rally tomorrow then, comrade, because I'll be there, passing out voter guides, and I'm the webmaster for 'Progressives for Obama.' And if the rally pulls in a lot of Hip-Hop youth, I'll have lots of friends...
l would like someone to say "lf we are not militarily out of the Mid-east by 2012 l will not run for re-election."
What is this nonsense (from above):
"And, incidentally, Ralph Nader has accepted support from openly pro-Bush groups in the past, so his shoes aren't exactly clean in this area."
Are you trying to tell me that Obama and/or Hillary RETURN money form donors who are "openly pro-Bush"? I doubt it. Why would such a thing make Nader's, or for that matter, Obama and/or Hillary's "shoes dirty"?
The Democrat Party because of their disdain for democracy, because of the way they refuse to take responsibility for their own failures, for their unwillingness to hold Bushco accountable, for their inability to stop funding the Iraq war, for backpedaling after being elected in November to do the people's bidding, for lying the same way that G.W. Bush has, for stopping John Conyers in his tracks through intimidation, for shutting out Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich, etc., ad nauseum, have lost me forever.
In the next few months Nader's appeal will climb from his current 6% or so to twice that. And when the Democrats refuse to have their private institution that puts together the presidential "debates" from including Nader that will double. We can conclude from the Democrats excluding Nader that they fear his message. And rightly they should. This time, however, lawsuits will commence early to have Nader included in the debates. We are not, after all, like the former Soviet Union, where we shut candidates up. Or, are we?
"In my humble estimation you guys have it ass-backward. It seems to me to make more sense to start with someone that you know, or at least have every reason to believe, will move heaven and earth for the causes you believe in and then fight like hell to get him/her elected than to elect someone you may have to fight like hell to get to move in the right (left) direction. But what do I know? After all, I voted for a "loser" in the last three elections (Nader). Wait, come to think of it, didn't you too (Gore, Kerry)? At least my loser shared my principles. Did yours?"
H20 beautifully stated. I voted for Kucinich in my primary knowing the enfranchised elites like Hayden would keep his mouth shut. Kucinich and Gravel are the only progressives left in the Democratic Party. No wonder they get little or no attention. I guess it is the "in" thing nowadays to call yourself a "progressive" while at the same time embodying attributes that go against one's rhetoric. They ought to market and produce the energy generated by paying lip service to their 'so called' progressive values.
Reading this article induced a deja-vu experience. Once again, Progressive leaders, either asleep at the switch or exhibiting the same lack of courage we have been excoriating our newly elected Dem. congress for, are stepping out with too little, too late.
You had a candidate with a proven track record who supported, championed and actually campaigned on all those Progressive positions you now must "urge" your chosen candidate to adopt. His name is Dennis Kucinich. You sat on your hands and failed to support or campaign for him when it might well have mattered. Did you not know he was there? Or rather did you timidly bow to the "conventional wisdom" fostered by the MSM and perpetuated by too many of your progressive peers that he was "unelectable" and bite your tongues fearing to appear "foolish"? Or did you in fact share that assessment?
Either way you are once again, as in '96, '00, and '04 in the awkward position of supporting a candidate who, according to your own admissions, is hardly qualified to, and shows little or no desire to, carry a Progressive banner into the executive mansion. Granted, he has introduced a couple of new and refreshing elements into the mix; his banner is a different color, his coat of arms more artfully drawn, and his motto more eloquently stated than your previously chosen champions. But you don't have to listen very hard or for very long to know that neither he nor Clinton will, nor do they intend to, bring us any closer to where we need to be than the others.
In my humble estimation you guys have it ass-backward. It seems to me to make more sense to start with someone that you know, or at least have every reason to believe, will move heaven and earth for the causes you believe in and then fight like hell to get him/her elected than to elect someone you may have to fight like hell to get to move in the right (left) direction. But what do I know? After all, I voted for a "loser" in the last three elections (Nader). Wait, come to think of it, didn't you too (Gore, Kerry)? At least my loser shared my principles. Did yours?
This time you may get your wish. But, as they say, be careful what you ask for.....
Nanco, last time i looked over 60% of US tax revenue went into the military industrial establishment and their coffers. And then a Cat like RSJ who puppets his status quo line asserting lie after lie that Obama is not participating in this build up. All you have to do is look at his voting record: he never saw a Iraq FUNDING BILL he did not like.
Ghawar: don't hold your breath my friend. It will NEVER sink in with these people. People like Hayden and his chums will be spinning their 'one size fits all' mantra as the world slips into chaos and the Earth becomes a burnt out cinder so a guy like Glover can speed around Hollywood in his Hummer.
Nanoo, why is it that if someone supports Obama, they must be a plant? Being ardent isn't being a plant. Plants don't respond to any challenges to their positions or discuss questions about their statements. They don't deviate from their stump speech. RSJ doesn't fit that profile.
kathyodat
All you Obama bashers, I invite you to read this link and then discuss Obama. Otherwise, you discredit yourselves. I always go to links people post when I'm not agreeing with them to see what their information is. I invite you to do the same. Then, please come back and argue about Obama from an informed point of view.
http://www.alternet.org/audits/80623/?page=entire
Thank you, kathyodat
"Ghawar, how has your voting for third party candidates advanced your cause of ridding us of the War on Drugs?" --RSJ March 27th, 2008 6:15 am
Well, RSJ, a lot of people say I'm a spoiler, that it's my stubborn perversity as a third party voter that brought us George Bush. So be it. If it takes another four or twenty or thirty-six years of imbecilic presidents, Bushism and stupidity before the message sinks in with the Democratic Party, then that's how it will be.
You might ask yourself what your voting for the lesser of two evils has accomplished these last four decades. What it accomplishes is that with each and every election both parties edge a little more to the right, and now finally they're both composed of fascists and torturers.
I vote for the candidate who represents me and who is able to say so.
Sigh...another thread devolved to the point of hysterical paranoia.
There are many reasons to support Obama -- such as appointment of a pro-choice Supreme Court justice -- but his being progressive isn't one of them.
Just checked back and Huck if you read this, I agree with you. RSJ must be a plant for Obama. The environment should be the number one issue as it would ultimately include military actions of any kind.
For anyone still interested in this thread, note that RSJ is one of the most committed 'true believers' you will find anywhere on the planet as he shovels dung while pontificating to the rest of us. His self righteousness goes beyond appalling and his ignorance of the issues astonishing in scope. Thank God for the internet otherwise these types would be out haunting the streets with their sunken eyes and twitching lips while accosting anyone with a sympathetic nod or ear turned in their direction. It is clear that the 'true believers' among us have a lot vested in their belief system. My Grandmother use to refer to these types as "big talkers and little doers." It is almost comical if it was not so pathetic.
Obama is a charlatan. I am very disappointed to see activists I respect supporting someone who is sponsored by corporate money (despite his finger pointing to Clinton for doing the same); he proposes and Iraqi withdrawl but does not set a date on this, and he wants to augment the Aghanistan occupation; and as many have pointed out, Obama's economic advisors are far more conservative than Clinton's. It is not enough to join the "wave of 'change'"; what change I ask? Plus que ça change....as they say.
Nader is the only sane choice out there. Should he withdraw from the race, I honestly have to make a moral choice: to vote for the Democrat both of whom are sadly disappointing and moving further and further right merely to appease the masses or to vote for McCain who at least is honest and says he will bomb the )*^# out of Iraq and seek out all of Al Quaeda--a McCain who is progressive for many Republicans and has alienated the far right. In the absence of Ralph Nader, I would feel that the difference is so negligible between McCain and Obama or Clinton, that I will once again be force to chose the candidate whom I trust or distrust. Despite his politics, I feel like McCain is someone of his word--these other two are simply not. Wake up fellow Americans. The word "change" is not equal to real change.
The emperor has no clothes.
Nanoo (March 27th, 2008 10:48 am) wrote: "Many people say, he's playing the game and he's really a good guy but apparently gutless. Wellstone had guts, no wishy washy there. I'm sure Clinton and Obama are glad not to be running against him today, as they wouldn't have been able to plow over him like they did with Kucinich."
Nanoo, you may not be aware that Paul Wellstone once tried to run for president -- I know because I was receiving his mailings -- but didn't collect enough money to launch his campaign. That's a shame, but I have a feeling he would have been denied the Dem nomination at the time for being 'too liberal' anyway. Nobody is claiming Obama's perfect, he's just the best we have at the moment, and while he has his own style, I wouldn't call him gutless. Who would you have him emulate -- Bush, Cheney, McCain, Hillary, Joe Stalin?
Areader (March 27th, 2008 11:17 am) wrote: "btw, Where were all these 'progressives' when Kucinich and Edwards were in the race?! Obama is not progressive."
I never had a chance to vote for Edwards; he quit before my state's primary.
Areader (March 27th, 2008 11:17 am) wrote: "Obama's economic advisors are more conservative than Hillary's."
Dr. Austan Goolsbee is a conservative? The will be a big surprise to his University of Chicago colleagues. Please point out who among Obama's advisors you think is more conservative than Hillary's advisors. BTW, just yesterday Hillary announced that she thought the housing crisis could be solved by Robert Rubin and Alan Greenspan -- Rubin is the ultimate Wall Street insider and Greenspan is the neocon Milton Friedman free-marketeer who is greatly responsible for the economic disaster we're currently experiencing. This is an example of Hillary's 'more liberal' approach to economics?
Areader wrote: "Whoever is elected will have to work with Congress."
Obama has demonstrated his ability to work with Republicans to get progressive legislation passed when he was in the Illinois State Senate. In his presidential campaign he has stressed unity and the idea that we must pull together to get things done.
Areader wrote: "And, if you constantly insult anyone who does not agree with you, that does not bode well for uniting people."
Who has Obama insulted? Am I insulting you?
Areader wrote: "Many Obama supporters seem to be for Obama -- period. They say they will whine and walk away if he is not selected."
So do many Hillary supporters -- "Hillary or nothing" -- and some have even vowed they will vote for McCain over Obama.
Areader wrote: "I am becoming embarrassed at the self-righteous attitude of so-called 'progressives'."
So am I, especially the people who won't face political reality in this election and don't bother to educate themselves on where the various candidates stand and who they are, preferring to toss rocks -- or kitchen sinks, as the case may be -- from their glass houses.
Annika (March 27th, 2008 1:40 pm) wrote: "Look back 200 years and you'll find Democrats arguing basically the same points here for the shill candidate of their day — William jennings bryan. Woodrow Wilson."
Uh, Annika, I think you should check your history here -- William Jennings Bryan ran for president three times about 100 years ago, and he was definitely no shill for the wealthy Robber Barons of the day. Read his 1896 "Cross of Gold" speech sometime: " I come to speak to you in defense of a cause as holy as the cause of liberty—the cause of humanity." ... "We say to you that you have made the definition of a business man too limited in its application. The man who is employed for wages is as much a business man as his employer; the attorney in a country town is as much a business man as the corporation counsel in a great metropolis; the merchant at the cross-roads store is as much a business man as the merchant of New York; the farmer who goes forth in the morning and toils all day—who begins in the spring and toils all summer—and who by the application of brain and muscle to the natural resources of the country creates wealth, is as much a business man as the man who goes upon the board of trade and bets upon the price of grain; the miners who go down a thousand feet into the earth, or climb two thousand feet upon the cliffs, and bring forth from their hiding places the precious metals to be poured into the channels of trade are as much business men as the few financial magnates who, in a back room, corner the money of the world.")
Cross of Gold speech: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Cross_of_Gold_Speech
Woodrow Wilson was another matter, but he did try to establish the League of Nations after WWI, a forerunner to the UN, to prevent another world war.
Annika wrote: "HE IS WALL STREET SPONSORED, by the same Wall Street vampires who JUST PERFORMED THE BIGGEST TRANSFER OF WEALTH OUT OF BLACK COMMUNITIES."
As I posted here March 27th, 2008 8:05 am, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, Obama has received $192,757,471, or 100 percent, of his campaign funds from individual contributions, most of them less than $200. That being the case, please cite exactly what Wall Street firms are sponsoring or controlling him.
Annika wrote: "The progressive "movement" is a joke. And the progressive media is trash just like the MSM. Common Dreams has been one of the THE WORST PROBAMA SHILLS OUT THERE."
What's your viable alternative, Annika? Shrieking at people in ALL CAPS and calling them 'suckers' just doesn't cut it.
Huck, I suspect our economy will be helpful in shifting human behavior and consumption patterns. There may, however, be a problem with China and India.
kathyodat
I KNOW we have a criminal organization running our country. I wasn't fooled by the Warren Commission report on the JFK assassination, I knew then it was a conspiracy cover up but I knew no one who would listen to me. I was only 21 and totally uninformed, but I figured back then that everyone was in denial out of fear because otherwise the gloves would come off and we couldn't even pretend to be a Democracy. I had no information about Bobby Kennedy or Martin Luther King, just suspicions, partly based on past experience. I was suspicious of the Mel Carnahan plane crash, I generally am when something is fortuitous, and much more so after Wellstone was assassinated.
We still have the right to vote, and here's Obama, a cautious careful man. Telling us the power belongs to us, we just need to get behind the right candidates. I believe if we do it right, we can take our country back, bit by bit, law by law. That means to keep replacing Republicans and DLC Democrats with progressives. I don't give up until there's nowhere left to go. We aren't there yet.
Huck, how can you question me about what I would do if Hillary gets the nomination? I already said, I don't know if it will be McKinney or Nader. In my opinion, the Green party is a disorganized mess - certainly here in Oregon. Although I've been in it until right now (a closed Democratic primary coming up) because I haven't seen anywhere else to go. I do vote for and support Greens, it's just that Obama brought me out of the woodwork. Figured I might as well try a Hail Mary. Certainly running around and voting for fringe candidates may be good for the soul, but the corporations could care less about that. I know it doesn't make any difference, it just doesn't make me feel like shit walking out of the voting booth. Obama won't either - this time. Next time is up to him.
jmacneil, can you please explain this line to me? Whoever posts to that "beforkids" moniker is NSA, located at 126 Platano Street in Roanoke, Virginia.
kathyodat
If you are not willing, or able, to deal with reality, then you should quit proselytizing about voting for any recognized party. What rules the U.S.A. is a criminal organization and if anyone who posts cannot recognize that perspective, then they should desist from commenting on current affairs because, obviously, they are not qualified to do so.
Kathy, let me say this one more time: Vote your conscience. I respect your right as a free being to do so. I hope you are right about Obama. I agree that Clinton would do the only politically expedient thing if it insures her power. It is the only thing she is in it for. Yet, if she gets the nomination my question is where do you intend to go?
Obama may be the hope candidate but it is going to require much more than rhetoric to shift human behavior and consumption patterns to Save the Humans of Planet Earth.
Even Gore acknowledges that we are at the tipping point. I believe we have long since fallen over the edge.
jmacneil, whatever are you smoking?? Are you talking about me?
kathyodat
Huck, I apologize for mischaracterizing you as you do me. I'm not an "Obama lover" but I do see him as - hopefully - our best hope at this time. I also acknowledge I could be wrong about him and you all out there could be right. But I sense an honesty and integrity in him that is clearly missing in Hillary. That was before his speech, which only made me feel more strongly that I am right. Yes, Hillary would have thrown Wright off the train, and maybe that would have been the politically profitable position. But he refused; instead, denouncing the words but not the man. How much more Christian and courageous can you get? I want a President who takes right and honorable and courageous positions, even at the risk of costing him popularity. Hillary would never do that. She can't even behave with decency in her campaign.
Yes, I could go on voting for Nader or whatever third party candidate I can find as I always have since 1972, but this time it is I who am willing to take a risk at being wrong and hope I am right. It's never been that I've been unwilling to be pragmatic as I have been frequently accused. I've just drawn the line at holding my nose and voting for a sleazebag or even a candidate without principles. I understand our current system well, and no candidate has a chance in Hell if the corporate media decides to bury him/her. Even now. it wouldn't be safe for Obama to propose too radical solutions for the mess we're in and he is avoiding specifics and drawing fire from lefties for that. but I'm willing to wait and see what he would do in office. I have a suspicion he might surprise some of you. Have those of you so opposed to him studied his legislative history in Illinois? That's what drew me to him. Until then I was with you, seeing him as a black Hillary.
When my Russian mother-in-law decided to emigrate to the US, she quit her engineering security clearance job - I think it was in Leningrad - and got a job in Moscow selling theatre tickets. She needed to become innocuous and get under the radar. And she did it for 10 years. She's in the US now but never would have been allowed to leave if she hadn't done that.
The corporate welfare state allows politicians to throw some crumbs our way with their votes, but expects them toe the line on big ticket items. But once a person is actually President, they can decide for themselves if they want to stay in the corporate pocket or climb out. Bill Clinton chose to stay, and we found out years later why. His ambition was not to help us, but to get very very rich. And now people want to elect his wife?? We're a country of slow learners. I want to see what Obama decides when he's in office. I can't guarantee what way he will go, but his past history has not been about getting rich - that's a start.
And Obama's the one who said "A leader will go where the people will push". George Bush isn't a leader, he's a despot. There's a big difference.
kathyodat
Don't be suckered. Whoever posts to that "beforkids" moniker is NSA, located at 126 Platano Street in Roanoke, Virginia. It's one of their 3002 safehouses across the nation. Besides being stupid, they are also obvious, the same as all of their undercover operatives on the street, because they always overplay their character.
iam: i respect any one's right to vote their conscience. What I don't respect is a bunch of sixties activists riding their name recognition purporting the status quo. If Obama wins the nomination (and I have serious doubts he will) given the Clinton's entrenched political cronies in the system. Obama's environmental policies will contribute to climate change. This country lacks the resolve to take the steps necessary. Every indigenous elder Ive worked with is now saying the same thing: life on planet Earth as we have known it in our lifetimes is undergoing significant change for the worse. My advice is to PREPARE for that day!
Agreed, Huck. I don't think it serves a good purpose to characterize anyone as Obama haters. By inference, that makes me an Obama lover, which I am not. I will vote for him, but that's far from saying that I will follow him no matter what or that those who don't approve of him will do what they can to diminish him.
I'm a late-comer to the Obama camp as I despise the Democrats in their current incarnation. They are treasonous, feckless, leaderless weasels and the sooner this country is done with the malcontents, the better. There are also some decent Democrats and it's