I agree with Rojo, Obama is every bit bought and paid for as Clinton. Lessor evilism is some people grand apologetic on behalf of the corporate entity referred to as the "two party system" when will this type of tripe be curtailed? After the collapse, when the sheeple start losing their corporate jobs, and are cast out on the streets of suburbia. Instead of life on Sunny Side Street, the streets will claim the herd. Life as we know it is coming to an end, and Obama (if elected) will just be another instrument in the demise of the Earth with his Bio Fuel and Nuclear agenda. Both contribute diminished returns for solving the climate change problem.

Mr. Tristam is obviously unaware that hundreds of thousands of Union soldiers gave their lives to free the slaves.

It's easy for insignificant scribblers like Pierre Tristam to insult the memory of all the brave men who died to give Jeremiah Wright the freedom he enjoys today.

Here's a news flash for the rest of you: It wasn't Malcolm X who freed the slaves.

It was hundreds of thousands of European immigrants who died most of them miserably from infections in primitive hospitals.

Remember them the next time you hear some hate-freak scream "God damn America!"

iammyself, that wouldn't work. The trolls would wipe the board clean.

All we can do is ignore them, don't even read their posts. I don't, I scroll right on past. You know, sort of like commercials.

kathyodat

I'm not impressed with either Tristam, his piece on Obama or the wanna be Obama or his ambiguous wholesome platitudes!

Tristam should try some of that truth he's trying hard to peddle to the reader; that he should come clean and admit that he's shilling for the corporate owned puppetObama.

Hey Tristam, where's the critical analysis of Obama and what he really stands for instead of this fluff material?

Jacob Freeze, you obviously are the product of the Disneyland version of American history that we all learned in public school. I challange you to read "The Peoples history of the United States" by Howard Zinn. I mean no disrespect sir, but try to entertain the notion that you have been taken for a ride, as was I.

"iammyself, that wouldn't work. The trolls would wipe the board clean.

All we can do is ignore them, don't even read their posts. I don't, I scroll right on past. You know, sort of like commercials."

Agreed, kathyodat, but when it takes 5 minutes to scroll past their diarrhea, it's a bit much (and I'm not saying that every long post is from a troll - we know who the trolls are).

I honestly wonder if there isn't some heuristic way of democratizing boards like this one so that the members could deal with trolls. The idea of a democratic and free World Wide Web as set out by Tim Berners-Lee has been co-opted by these Gollum-like trolls.

Jacob Freeze, reading your post, I am reminded of the Mr. Show episode "White Man, Set Them Free!" The difference is that David Cross and Bob Odenkirk were TRYING to be funny. :)

A reading of most any competent history of the Civil War shows that many Union soldiers were fighting for union and not abolition. The ultimate cause of the conflict was slavery though, and the contradiction of the peculiar institutuion with the Declaration of Ind. and the Constituion, so yes many European immigrants gave their lives to end slavery, but many also gave their lives to assert the right to preserve it.

Yeah, our history sucks. Anyone looking for a giant mea culpa for - manifest destiny, slavery, the cold war, the School Of The Americas, the military industrial complex, Viet Nam, the invasion and occupation of Iraq - though is going to be waiting for a long time.

I've said lots worse than Rev. Wright. I think the rage he expressed is the rage we here feel when George W. Bush solemnly invokes "and may God continue to bless the United States" as he launches a criminal campaign that will result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, the displacement of millions, and a regional conflict that will last for decades. I don't believe in God, but realize that ideal vessel embodies the best hopes and dreams of many human beings, and invoking hope for a deliberate policy of death and destruction SHOULD enrage believers.

If Obama winds up not being the presidential candidate during the Democrat National Convention; ironically, one has Reverend Jeremiah Wright to thank. I find this scenario tragic as well.

Americans can't handle the truth if it stares them right in the face. Lies, manipulation, and propaganda has so permeated the discourse and debates there that on the rare occasion that truth is spoken no one will believe it.

I am tired of some African Americans playing the victimization and race cards in the USA. It is becoming old. Understand? Black/white race relations have improved significantly in the USA since the 1960s and it is high time that black people in general acknowlege that. Of course, parts of Africa had Hebrews as slaves in such countries as Egypt and Ethiopia. So let us stop portraying black people as innocent victims Reverend Wright. Ok?

By the way, Reverend Wright, are you sure you are REALLY black, or did you go through the same plastic surgery procedure that Michael Jackson did? :-)

I am tired of some African Americans playing the victimization and race cards in the USA. It is becoming old. Understand?

Poor baby. Want a blankie?

A white pastor at the church the Clintons used to attend has defended Reverend Wright, but it's gotten little coverage in the press:

On Tuesday, Sen. Hillary Clinton re-stoked the flames of the controversy surrounding Sen. Barack Obama's former pastor, saying she would have long ago distanced herself from Rev. Jeremiah Wright if she had attended his church.

"He would not have been my pastor," Clinton told a gathering of the campaign press corps, repeating a line she used earlier in the day on a Pittsburgh radio program. "You don't choose your family, but you choose what church you want to attend."

But the pastor at the church that Clinton did once attend has recently expressed public support for Wright. He's even proclaimed it a "grave injustice" to make a judgment on Wright based off of "two or three sound bites," and criticized those who would "use a few of [Wright's] quotes to polarize."

Last week, Dean Snyder, the senior minister at the Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington D.C. -- which the Clintons famously attended while in the White House -- released a little noticed statement offering a sympathetic defense of the totality of Wright's work.

"The Reverend Jeremiah Wright is an outstanding church leader whom I have heard speak a number of times," Snyder wrote. "He has served for decades as a profound voice for justice and inclusion in our society. To evaluate his dynamic ministry on the basis of two or three sound bites does a grave injustice to Dr. Wright, the members of his congregation, and the African-American church which has been the spiritual refuge of a people that has suffered from discrimination, disadvantage, and violence. Dr. Wright, a member of an integrated denomination, has been an agent of racial reconciliation while proclaiming perceptions and truths uncomfortable for some white people to hear. Those of us who are white Americans would do well to listen carefully to Dr. Wright rather than to use a few of his quotes to polarize."

You can read the whole post here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/25/pastor-of-clintons-forme_n_93418.html

America has NEVER been able to handle the truth!

I don't know that it's true that we never could. We just have a tenacious hope. When it becomes apparent that the hope was misplaced, that our values have been shredded and used as bait to taunt us, we've been pretty good at figuring it out. It takes brave people like Jerry Wright to point out that the emperor has no clothes. When I drive through the Airplane boneyard SE of Tucson, I can do nothing else but join in his chorus, and I'm white and my family came here in the early 1600's and have thus been here as long as my black brethren. We will stomp out this evil which has bourne us for so long because the Cheney's of the world grossly under estimate us.

Did anyone notice that Mr. Tristam, while pointing out the "angelization" of the USA, was paricipating in it himself?

Past US actions he described as "atrocities" but the current ones are jusr "moral degradations".

And, like so many other "liberals" there is plenty of "angelization" of Obama in his piece - particularly in the way he characterizes that speech so many liberal are fawning over.

Lets be clear, Obama's speech on race was at least as right-wing, and similar in some ways, to Bush Sr. "Thousand points of light" speech. Everything was about volunteerism - that relish and mustard sandwich girl at the end of the speech, and nothing about what his administration through specific policies and programs, and our tax dollars, will do about it.

If Obama had at least said that addressing racism started with, once again, ennforcing existing anti-discrimination laws which can be violated with impunity due to dismantling of the agencies enforcing them, then maybe it would have been a truly new and fresh pespective.

But Obama can't say that, because along with this "angelization" is very idea of an activist government has been utterly banned from political discoure.

What, pray tell, did Rev. Jeremiah Wright say that was wrong, offensive, incorrect, or inaccurate? Where did Rev. Wright tell a lie? Nowhere! He did a fantastic job of expounding on some of the murderous and negative actions of this country that have been perpetrated against weaker and poorer nations. It is tantamount to Mohammed Ali beating the shit out of a midget and then thumping on his chest, letting out a tarzan yell, and then congradulating himself on what a hell of a man he is!!! america is too caught up in this self created, self induced reality that has no basis in fact to true reality. If america cannot handle the truth then it needs to stop the murderous conduct that it has inflicted on the non whites of this planet. Rev. Wright said that hillary clinton was not black-she isn't. He said that no one has ever called her a nigger - they have not. He said that according to the bible you reap what you sow and that the god he represents says that vengence is his and that he shall repay measure for measure. IMHO Rev. Wright is RIGHT. But the one point that really gets my goat is the fact that all of the pundits, analysts, fake patriots, and news outlets ranted and raved about what he supposedly said but not one of these so called americans had the decency or fairness to talk to the man face to face and let him explain and defend himself.

Ahuramazda are you for real?! Boy are black people lucky now. We've (mostly) stopped lynching them for being black! Of course the KKK and neo-nazis are still running around and while law enforcement can't seem to do much about them, the Southern Poverty Law Center is doing a good job of suing their britches off and confiscating their assets. But the SPLC is being kept busy.

I haven't copied my posts from other threads, but the following is for Ahuramazda and Jacob Freeze and any others who think blacks should be grateful for what we let them have in this wonderful country:

I see the usual double standard in this issue. No matter what horrible things white preachers say, no one in the MSM objects. But black preachers are supposed to say "Yassuh, we's all happy suh!". Health care delivery for blacks is appalling, blacks are found to die of diseases at a much higher rate than whites (with medical studies wandering around wondering why - I know why, I saw the level of care my asthmatic black daughter-in-law was getting), infant mortality rate of black babies is twice that of whites, unemployment rates of blacks are as high as 40%, incarceration and death row rates of blacks are through the roof, black kids get prison time for crimes that white kids get sent home to Mom and Dad, driving while black is a major hazard and too frequently life-threatening, black neighborhoods are loaded up with liquor and gun shops (now why would that be?) and overpriced grubby grocery stores with reject vegetables from white supermarkets, the most underfunded schools in the country, but still, they're not supposed to have any complaints, they are living in the most wonderful country in the world. According to the whites. Get real, there's plenty to be mad about. What's amazing and for me humbling, is the amount of grace in the black community.

I apologize for repeating myself and suspect I'm wasting my breath with bigots anyway.

It seems to me that what we need to do instead of getting mad at each other is get mad at the corporate thieves that have us squabbling with each other over their crumbs which after all are the results of OUR labor. We're just dancing to the strings they pull. You know, like American Idol distracting us from real problems. I hear so much about American Idol - I don't even know what it is, except it seems to be the most important topic in America.

kathyodat

iammyself, the most effective method of extinguishing undesirable behavior is by ignoring it. If they get no attention, ultimately they get tired of wasting their time. Of course, we always have newcomers who will try to argue, and I was one myself. I learned. I even learned not to respond to hacks who run around copying their posts on every thread, always spouting the same talking points and never responding to questions challenging them (Bob K comes to mind).

kathyodat

Ahuramazda

I am white and have black friends, former roommates, teachers...never once did they play the race card.

As I see it, the only race card I have seen recently is the one the media keeps pounding into us in the media.

kathyodat

Flashed me to the moral conflict in "Scent of a Woman". We have an opportunity as a country to be courageous and elect a person who is courageous enough to tell us what we need to hear. Who will do the honorable thing, who isn't a panderer or snitch. If Obama had thrown Wright off the train, I wouldn't have voted for him. I want integrity and courage in my President.

Bravo...well said.

"I apologize for repeating myself and suspect I'm wasting my breath with bigots anyway." (BeForKids 12:21 p.m.)

Kathy, no apologies necessary. Kudos to you for trying. But I'm afraid you are wasting your time on bigots who are just trying to get a rise out of you. (Is that the definition of a troll?)

kathyodat,

Your points are well taken.

The most important point her is that racism is much bigger than mere bigotry - it is sewn into the fabric of our social and econmic institutions. It is defect, or a disease in a society, which persists even if ALL of the individuals in that society were to cast aside ordinary bigotry.

For example, I may not be bigoted, but when shopping for a house, I am compelled by society to make racist house buying desicions. The racism in our free-market economy dictates that as soon as blacks approach their percentage of the US population in any neighborhood, the market value of the houses, and my hard-earned equity, goes down. Ironically, even black poeple mwho have obtained sufficient wealth for a middle class living standard must be racists too and avoid anything but token-levels of black representation in a neighborhood in order to protect their equity.

At the more psychological level, racism deeply affects attitudes and expectations of whites toward blacks, and blacks toward themselves, in unconscious or unavoidably conscious ways - self-hate being a unaviodable characteristic many people (especially men for some reason) on the recieving end of racism, or other institutionalized forms of discrimination, develop.

I am a fairly insecure, socially awkward type, and not very ambitious either, but success came in spite of myself, because I have been given preferential treatment due to my white skin (and, as a civil engneer - maleness) through school and at every job interview. I would not be where I am if I were the same person but born an American with black skin and kinky hair.

By the way, this is why black immigrants - West-Indians or Africans - seem to "succeed" more easily in the US than Africn Americans - they and their parents didn't grow up immersed in a institutionally racist society.

Sociologists have thoroughly studied this institutional racism and their concensus remains that affirmitive action remains the only effective means to dismantle institutional racism over anything less than centuries-long time frames. The necessity of affirmative action programs is another thing that Obama dare not put his eloquence and leadership to work in addressing.

But we live in an era hyper individualism of triumphal Capitalism where everything is based on a false model of atomistic individuals, making personal decisions in a "feee market", and the youthful, post Reagan, Obama is too young to know anything else. So, he is likely in denial of even the existence of this thing called "Society" in a way that people in more pregressive countries would be familiar. Therefore, I should not be suprised that Obama proposed nothing in his speech that will effectively eradicate racism in our society.

USAn, I cannot agree with you. First of all, my hard earned equity isn't as important to me as doing the right thing. I'm on a limited income, but I still boycott WalMart and buy fair traded and American made goods whenever I can. But getting ahead isn't as important to me as doing the right thing. Maybe that's why I never "got ahead".

I don't think Obama is as naive as you portray him. I look at the kind of work he's done and the bills he tried to pass. I consider the pastor he listens to, who, even if Obama doesn't agree with his negativity, has certainly informed him of the injustice in this country, and I think Obama has experienced it for himself more than you, being a privileged white male might realize. Certainly as a female who had to support my children, I have been extremely aware of white male privilege.

What whites don't get is that racism affects their attitudes toward themselves as well. What Hillary doesn't get is that the more she tries to cut down Obama, the lower her own self esteem sinks.

We need to understand that on an energetic level we are all one being. Expressed individually physically but not energetically.

USAn, I appreciate your thoughtful and honest post. I agree with your following statement, and I believe that Obama's father, not being of our culture, was not imbued with the inferiority complex we visit on black American males and did not pass it on to his son. I've believed all along that is one reason that makes Obama the person we need right now. Among some others.

By USAn:
By the way, this is why black immigrants - West-Indians or Africans - seem to "succeed" more easily in the US than Africn Americans - they and their parents didn't grow up immersed in a institutionally racist society.

kathyodat

kathoydat,

You didn't quite get my point, I am not defending race-based individual decisions; I am explaining them. Just as Rev. Wright not defending, the Sept. 11 attacks, he was explaining them. I am simply stating that the racism embedded in the superstructure of our society and economy, and forces people, aside from a few with very strong convictions like you, to make race-based desisions that, in turn support the structure.

Once again we must not personalize or individualize the issue, racism isn't a feeling or an emotion, or even an attitude! It is a societal structure exactly like buildings and layout of streets is to a physical infrastructure. And for many people, that structure, metaphorically speaking, is their only shelter.

For an alternative to how Obama characterized race issues, please consider Cynthia Mckinney's piece, here:

http://www.counterpunch.com/mckinney03192008.html

And, I should add, this characterization of racism part of the structure of a society, rather than an individual attitude or opinion, is a mainstream concept in the field of sociology, but thanks to our politicians, it remains a foreign one to too many laypersons.

here's another piece:
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/16976

USAn, I think it's both. Individual and institutional. Maybe your behavior (resisting blacks moving into your neighborhood) is based solely on financial considerations, but that's not the case for everyone.

I agree with Cynthia McKinney, but it would be political suicide for candidate likely to be elected to say what she is saying. I believe Obana's nature is to move slowly and build coalitions. Knowing that change doesn't come all at once, to persuade people. We will see what happens if Hillary doesn't succeed in destroying his campaign with her slimeball tactics. And if she does, I hope she loses. She doesn't deserve to win. Even more than not wanting to see McCain in office I don't want to see another lying Clinton in office.

kathyodat

The only reason I said I wasn't a racist was because I knew I'd be accused of being one if I criticized Rev. Wright. This isn't the 60's.

You just don't get it.

YAWN

Someone must have senile dementia.

I was lucky enough to hear the Philadelphia speech live on AAR, before the media sliced, diced and Julian cut it into something the corporate media could better digest. It was spectacular! GWB has never written a single speech he has ever delivered. That point is never mentioned among the myriad pundits who viciously criticize Obama for daring to take this subject on. I voted for Obama at the CO caucus in February and haven't regretted it for one moment. And I am one of those "born to oppress" white males. Brave and honest. It leaves the rest of the field loosing 0 for 2.
Stand and deliver!

I can't compete with Obama Girl, but hell, at least I voted.

America, I submit, needs to hit bottom.

I think a good example of the "America can do no wrong" affliction was during the initial invasion of Iraq when a MSNBC anchor heard a reporter in Baghdad say that an American tank was firing on the hotel where many journalists were staying. The anchor responded that it was impossible because American tanks wouldn't do that.

American tanks were firing on the hotel, but that immediate response from the "news" anchor showed how the entire country was mislead into a war without the faintest hint of criticism from the monopoly media outlets. Our monopoly media held American actions above criticism because of thier own prejudices and because of a business decision that maintained that questioning the President or the American military during a time of war would not be good for ratings and ad revenue.

It's the monopoly media, stupid.

"opposition has managed to field nothing more pulsing than the Arizonan equivalent of Leonid Brezhnev."

I'd say Chernenko, perhaps Andropov. Would have made the point better, but then again how many of his reader's would recognize the names or their significance...

Continuing the Russian theme of this blurb, it's kinda strange that the us media wants to build up the image of a Potemkin USA, where the people are always happy, the armies humain, the government always honest, the corporations work for the public good. Not too surpising tho, Potemkin was Catherine's male whore; the media is the whore of the corporate us gov't.

Bush is merely a reflection of the people he presides over. 95% of the world serial killers live in the United States, the US is the world's greatest polluter, the greatest consumer of illegal drugs, the greatest exporter of arms, the greatest sponsors and financiers of terror and guerrilla in the world, the most brutal imperial force in history (in millions killed, or are China and the old Russia ahead? still, the US is way WAY up there with them), not to mention the fattest, one the least educated and most sexually repressed people on the planet.

Are you proud yet?

Counterpunch.org has a great article by Ismael Reed on this subject. Worth checking out.

Congratulations, Pierre Tristam, on one of the finest essays of this, or any, political season.

Sure, I wish Barack Obama were more specific about how and how quickly he would end the US military occupation of Iraq. I also wish America's ability to direct any sort of change within Iraq in a positive, nonviolent direction had not already been compromised beyond repair by the litany of past crimes and arrogant policy miscalculations that the Bush White House will bequeath to Little George's successor.

Unlike Nixon, Bush/Cheney indeed appear likely to ride out of Dodge into the sunset laughing, all the way to the bank. They'll leave the tab on the table for someone else to pick up, no doubt the same crew that will materialize from somewhere to give the old frat house a good cleaning up too.

If the recent media feeding frenzy over what the Obama family's former pastor did or did not say in one of his past sermons has proven anything, it is that Barack Obama may speak softly, but he's not afraid to be confronted by raucus views that are sharply at odds with America's fuzzy milquetoast moral middle ground, or its super-patriotic orthodoxies.

James Carville is credited with saying that the commonwealth of Pennsylvania consists of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, with Alabama in between. If so, what happens next month in ArchieBunkerville will tell us much. Race and religion have always been the two great all-American wedge issues.

Based largely upon his Philadelphia speech, Barack Obama may pass the big test with flying colors - a test America's founders expressly decreed no candidate for public office should ever be subjected to.

I mean, if this isn't a test of religious belief, religious practice, piety and religious loyalty in order to qualify for holding public office, then what else have we all been witnessing?

Bill from Saginaw

Nice line, Pierre, "These colors don't run". Flashed me to the moral conflict in "Scent of a Woman". We have an opportunity as a country to be courageous and elect a person who is courageous enough to tell us what we need to hear. Who will do the honorable thing, who isn't a panderer or snitch. If Obama had thrown Wright off the train, I wouldn't have voted for him. I want integrity and courage in my President. I want a bold thinker and hard worker. Obama is all of that. I don't want someone who relies on focus groups for decision making. I believe in our history we are at a crisis point. In Chinese, the characters for crisis are danger and opportunity. Obama has shown how he responds to crisis. He turns it into an opportunity. That is what I need in a President. I believe that is what we all need in a President.

kathyodat

I wonder how good the Secret Service protection will be for BHO. Will 'somebody' pull off all his protection some afternoon, like "somebody" did at the Loraine Motel in April 1968? When Ritual Shaming doesn't work and they can't be falsely imprisoned, they are assassinated (by a lone gunman with 3 names who secretly spent time in MK Ultra).

You see, America don't like it when Black people get "uppity" and step out of their 'place'. That's why we have, Selective Enforcement of the Law; Targeted Incarceration; Disproportionate Sentencing, and 2.3 million in prison, 2/3 Black and Brown (quadrupled prison population and race reversed demographics since 1965--Civil Rights/Voting Rights).

Aryan (male) Supremacy is bred to the bone here. This runs right along with a profound taste for human slavery, gender slavery, massive child abuse, constant war, and genocide. We got away and continue to get away with them all. Angelize that. Pretty much what you'd expect from an unrepentant, genocidal, Aryan slave empire with pretentions of enlightenment.

We had a choice 43 years ago when LBJ was forced to sign those pieces of legislation giving people their Civil Rights and Voting Rights: We could end poverty in our lifetime and we could provide lifetime stable employment for all Americans(check it 1965 I was there). BUT in order to do that, America had to make a place for everyone at the table and reject war and conquest as a way of life.

Repsonse: TOTAL RABID HISSING SPITTING REJECTION. Then and now.

We chose Exclusion, White Male Supremacy, Constant War, and we got an Oligarchy as a bonus(by 1965 the oligarchy was nearly dead here, check it, fact). One problem.

The American Oligarchy spits on your children. Like GWB they believe they were born with spurs to ride you. They have since stolen the wealth of America for themselves and have reduced you all to illiterate penury - corporate feudal slave state, 80-20.

I hope that America enjoys the chains and soon the Chips. It has always been their choice. You will go to the implant center to get your RDIF Chip installed, won't you? It's free to the Slaves and won't hurt a bit. It's for National Security.

Peece.

P.S. Mr. Tristam also has additional excellent pieces at his blog - Candide's Notebooks. Worth the time.

Americans the most sentimental people on earth? That's the peculiar thing I notice about Narcissists. They corner the market on excessive sentimentality, covering over the savage self-interest that lurks underneath.

I liked this article.

It's been sad listening to the fallout on tv over those radical comments, all to avoid what it really means if a lot of people really think "like that". Heaven forbid; loving America is mandatory for Americans. Can't treat it as a valid topic of discussion, people's true feelings and convictions, silly stuff, who cares?

They imply we shouldn't care about how people feel, even if it's a lot of people. About their own nation. Even if the opinions are strong, and bitter and personal. So it's all about invalidating feelings, which anyone can agree isn't the right thing to do, but it's exactly what they're obviously doing.

But "95% of the world serial killers live in the United States" from another commenter? Interesting. I guess it depends of how you define serial killer. And if it matters that over 95% of THEM are male. All a question of priorities I guess. We're all human, supposedly.

I don't know why Rev. Wright is all up in arms about race. He looks more white than black, as a lot of "black" Americans do. Compare him to an African and you'll see the difference.

I'm not a racist, but hey there are a lot of rich blacks. Take Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, Oprah Winfry, etc. Yes, there are poor blacks, but there are poor Native-Americans and poor whites, too. Not everyone is supposed to be a multi-millionaire or billionaire.

On the other hand, no one should live in poverty in the richest country on earth or anywhere for that matter. When some people have too much -- more than they actually need -- then others have too little as a result.

Who took the video of Rev. Wright ranting and raving, and why was he ranting and raving is my question. It's hurt Obama. Although Obama is too much of a right-winger and pro war to suit me, I think he's better than the other two foaming-at-the-mouth Dogs of War McCain and Clinton.

I am ashamed of my American nationality, even if it is an accident of birth. When I hear someone challenge us as being perfect, I think good, maybe, just maybe America will grow up enough to look at its faults and in doing so will begin to correct them and try to live up to the myth.

Those who can handle the truth should not "angelize" Obama. He's a product and servant of our corrupt, oligarchic duopoly.

But he's also the best chance we have of throwing out the torturers. The abolition of slavery was progress, and throwing out the torturers will also be progress, if only the recoupment of lost moral ground. One step at a time, hopefully two steps forward for every step back; that's the best we can hope for in the USA.

kelmer

I read the Counterpunch article you recommended, up to this sentence:

"Most of those white welfare recipients were probably Celtic, members of Moynihan's tribe."

A bald, bold assertion made with absolutely no attempt to prove the argument with evidence. (Even if the author has produced evidence later in the article, he has already lost me.)

If I want to hear this level of debate, there are plenty of other places I can go, such as my nearest school yard.

riverman, don't stalk. Leave BeForKids alone.

Not only is it creepy, but any point you're attempting to make will in fact be taken with far less credulity for your efforts.

We've all read your high logic comments, now please take it down a notch and discuss normally. Reduced usage of CAPS would help. A greater understanding in the respective physiologies of males and females (particularly the strong similarities in the respective brains' logic functions. I think the concept of male logical-superiority has long been -correctly- delegated to the trash bin.

There is one particular shining example I cannot help but mention in my thoughts on the foolishness (sorry, but that's how it seems to me) of this line of thought. Even predating Hitler having his Aryan supremacy hopes dashed by Jesse Owens, your theory is completely destroyed by the brilliant Ada Lovelace. She stands out so strongly in my mind due to her field of interest; the utterly logic-based art of computer (actually, difference engine(!)) programming. To me, this is the very PEAK of applied logic. Lovelace is far from the only example, she just seems the most antithetical to your premise.

The more I see of this Obama guy the more I like him, despite the suspicions which I still harbor that he's in the back pocket of the multinationals. And now he has the temerity to stick by a friend, even when the friend says things which are dangerous to his political ambitions. Don't tell me: we get to vote for a presidential candidate with integrity?

Patriotism and religion, ingrained into every American in school and in the military, turn us into obedient slaves of the oligarchy.

"Yours is not to reason why, yours is but to do or die".

What do you mean Nixon didn't get away with his crimes? He may have resigned the office of the presidency, but he was never tried, convicted, or spent any time in jail. Pardoning him for crimes "he may have committed" was the worst thing Ford ever did. It sent a message to all that followed that the worse that could happen to you was being forced to leave office and spend the rest of your life playing golf. That's why, compared to the bunch we have in there now, Nixon looks pretty good. Where have you gone, Tricky Dick, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you, woo woo woo . . .

Paris Hilton is looking for a new BFF.

How can we NOT be proud of Supermerica?

Ostrogoth, let's be fair; anybody who owns property under the auspices of this government is a product and a servant of the system. The same is true for anyone who uses US currency, or has a job, or uses a highway.

We may be too close to the problem to see it clearly.

I watched Obama's speech on race last week and am still so moved and stunned I find it hard to comment with the clarity the above article nails so easily, and am hopeful and amazed that such a man is so close to the Oval Office. The speech left me felling good in a way that Bill Clinton at his best never could, because I always felt his paper thin seduction at work on me even as I fell for it. Barack Obama's speech on transcending the American racial divide left me with the sense that he is a thoughtful, open-hearted, forgiving, and most importantly, humble man. I dig the idea that we can collectively invest ourselves in such a person. He seems to have what it really takes for us to turn the country we fear we may have now become into the place we have always known and dreamed it could be. I just hope I'm not Angelizing, I prefer San Francisco.

Hey neomunk: You said "difference engine" chuckle, chuckle. That (and luckylefty) made my day!